Welcome to the Danger Room

[Uncle Nobs]

Welcome to the Danger Room...

Just as the Danger Room is where the X-Men go to hone their skills and become better X-Men, this extra geeky online Danger Room is where we X-Fans can go to become better X-Fans.

Essentially, it works like a book club. Every month, we'll decide on a small run of comics, a TPB, or other similar collected edition that we will all read and discuss. Eventually, we may include films and such that might also relate to X-lore.

How is this different than just starting random threads about comics we want to discuss, you ask?

It's different because we HAVE to read the selected work. Everyone who participates. Together. If we've read it before, we HAVE to re-read it. If we don't own it, we HAVE to find a way to read it, or else we can't participate that month. NO "as I recall" or "back when I read it" type of posts!

The purpose of this thread is to broaden our appreciation of X-lore. We'll have a chance to expose fellow posters to material they might otherwise overlook. Likewise, any of us that participate will be forced to reexamine work we may have pooh-poohed in the past.

Remember: This is the Danger Room. Once you enter, there's no turning back. Each assignment should be viewed as exactly that: an assignment. Read it. Examine it. Return to the Danger Room on the deadline to discuss it.

Hopefully, the monthly assignments should give participants plenty of time. Throughout the month, we can help each other track down the books we need. BUT: We can't start the discussion until the due date. No spoilerage.

Remember that you don't need to buy the required reading. You just need to read it. Use your resources. Borrow from a friend. Have a library transfer a copy for you. Order books through Barnes & Noble or Borders and just read them in the store on a nice, comfy couch when they arrive. If you happen to fall in love with a book, go ahead and buy it!




For now, I'll see what you think of this concept and who is interested. Then we can decide on our first assignment (I have one in mind, of course).

...hope you survive the experience!




EDIT:
I will edit all assignments into this post. That way, if you fall behind, you can always come back here. Each month's assignment will be announced and confirmed no later than the beginning of that month and will be due on the 21st of that month.

I've planned assignments far in advance. This list is tentative and assignments may change. Do not purchase reading material until you see "Assignment confirmed" in blue under each assignment.

August 2006:
Classic X-Men #1-13. Also available as Giant Size X-Men #1 and (Uncanny) X-Men #94-105 (all available in multiple reprint editions), and X-Men: Vignettes (TPB) vol. 1.
Due August 21st, 2006. Assignment confirmed.

September 2006:
Longshot #1-6 and Firestar #1-4 (both available in TPB form).
Due September 21st, 2006. Assignment confirmed.

October 2006:
Classic X-Men #14-25, (Uncanny) X-Men #106, and (Uncanny) X-Men #110. Also available as Uncanny #106-119 (in multiple reprint editions) and X-Men: Vignettes (TPB) vol. 2. (#106 & 110 are not reprinted in Classic #14-25. If you choose to use the Classic X-Men reprints, I suggest reading #106 & 110 for free in a good bookstore or library.)
Due October 21st, 2006. Assignment confirmed.

November 2006:
Alpha Flight vol. 1, #1-12 (not available as reprints) and Cable vol. 2, #51-60 (Casey & Ladronn's run, not available as reprints).
Due November 21st, 2006. Assignment confirmed.

December 2006:
X-mas vacation. No homework!

January 2007:
Classic X-Men #26-44. (While Uncanny #120-138 is reprinted in several editions, the backup stories from Classic #26-44 are not available as reprints. I recommend everyone buys these issues of Classic since the assignment is really designed to be both sets of stories.)
Due January 21st, 2007.

February 2007:
Dazzler #1-12 (not available as reprints) and X-Force vol. 1, #71-81 (Road Trip era, possibly available in reprint editions...?).
Due February 21st, 2007.

March 2007:
Uncanny X-Men #139-150 (available in multiple reprint editions) and Uncanny X-Men Annual #3-5 (1979-81, possibly available in reprint editions...?).
Due March 21st, 2007.

April 2007:
To be announced.
Due April 21st, 2007.

May 2007:
Uncanny X-Men #151-161 (available in multiple reprint editions), Uncanny X-Men Annual #6 (1982, possibly available in reprint editions...?), and X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills.
Due May 21st, 2007.

June 2007:
To be announced.
Due June 21st, 2007.

July 2007:
Uncanny X-Men #162-167 (available in multiple reprint editions), Uncanny X-Men Annual #7 (1983, possibly available in reprint editions...?), and Marvel Graphic Novel #4: The New Mutants (reprinted in New Mutants Classic vol. 1 TPB, which also contains material that will be part of August's assignment).
Due July 21st, 2007.

August 2007:
Wolverine vol. 1, #1-4 (the original miniseries, available as a TPB), Avengers Annual #10 (1981, possibly available in reprint editions...?), plus To be announced.
Due August 21st, 2007.

September 2007:
Uncanny X-Men #168-175 (available in multiple reprint editions), and New Mutants vol. 1 #1-7 (reprinted in New Mutants Classic vol. 1 TPB).
Due September 21st, 2007.

October 2007:
To be announced.
Due October 21st, 2007.

November 2007:
Uncanny X-Men #176-180 (available in multiple reprint editions), New Mutants vol. 1 #8-14 (not yet reprinted at the time I'm writing this), and Uncanny X-Men Annual #8 (1984, possibly available in reprint editions...?).
Due November 21st, 2007.

December 2007:
To be announced.
Due December 21st, 2007.

January 2008:
Uncanny X-Men #181-188 (available in multiple reprint editions) and New Mutants vol. 1 #15-21 (not yet reprinted at the time I'm writing this).
Due January 21st, 2007.

[Beast]

Sounds fun to me. I suggest that if it's really older stuff, it's at least been put in an Essential or traded... just to make things easier for some folks. What do you say? :)

[The Fury]

Sure...I guess, why not? Sounds fun.

[Mikl C]

As long as it's essentialed if it's pre 1990 I'm good to go :)

[Gene M.]

Cool idea. I'm in for any reads I can get my hands on.

[An Average Madri]

Im soo down, too. :D

[Ironspider]

im in for newer stuff i dont have anything pre house of m

[fishtaco]

sounds interesting...:evilsmile

[CE_Rap]

The CE_Rapster was looking for a new challenge:evilsmile

[bounusball75]

I like it alot.

[Uncle Nobs]

Well that's kind of the point, guys. If you don't have it, you get it.

No snarkiness here (I save that for X-Cres). I'm reinforcing this for a distinct reason:

The whole idea is to expose ourselves and others to material that we might otherwise skip--including material we might skip because we deem it "too hard to collect" when, in fact, it doesn't have to be so difficult.

You don't have to buy it. You just have to read it. There are myriad ways to get your hands on old material at cheap prices. Libraries, ordering for free through your local bookstore, borrowing from friends, buying and returning from a bookstore, the new DVD-rom collections, etc., etc., etc.

So let's not limit ourselves on our group selections. If someone absolutely can't find a way to get the required reading even with an entire month of prep time and all his/her fellow posters to help him/her, then he/she doesn't have to participate that month.

Honestly, this kind of thing will only be fun if it challenges us.

Kosher?

[Beast]

Sounds good. I have a few I may suggest as well. :D

[Hi-Fi]

Sounds fun.

[Sentinel K]

You gonna decide on something then!?

[xmanson]

Yeah, pick something already!!!

[xakko]

i'm in, uncky nobs

bring it on

ETA: it's like Joey's old "We Got Issues" thread, but with a little more depth... I like it

[Uncle Nobs]

Damn, the natives are restless! Cool!

Okay, here's what I had in mind for our first challenge (and bear in mind that I'm purposely starting very basic):

Reading Uncanny in increments with suitable complimentary spin-off series.

So for August, we would read Giant-Size X-Men #1 and (Uncanny) X-Men #94-105. Then, as our complimentary spin-off, we'd read X-Men Vignettes Vol. 1., which provides the backup stories for every one of the Uncanny issues we're reading.

In single issues, this is easily available as Classic X-Men #1-13. As TPBs, you can find Giant-Size #1 and (Uncanny) X-Men #94-105 in all kinds of formats. X-Men Vignettes is available in TPB format nearly anywhere.

(And no, I have nothing against the original 1963 X-Men. I just think I'll alienate some readers if I start with something that classic. We'll come back to it eventually.)

What do you all think?

[fishtaco]

delete post.

[Uncle Nobs]

Fishy, stop!

The whole purpose of this thread is to give everyone the chance to read it first, and then discuss it.

Please, please, please make your post go away. I chose these books partly to make this newbie-friendly, too.

[Uncle Nobs]

My first post even says, "BUT: We can't start the discussion until the due date. No spoilerage."

[atoningunifex]

My first post even says, "BUT: We can't start the discussion until the due date. No spoilerage."

Did you put a due date?

[fishtaco]

My first post even says, "BUT: We can't start the discussion until the due date. No spoilerage."I assumed the due date was when you announced what the material is?

I'll delete anyway.

[Uncle Nobs]

Did you put a due date?
I guess I'm playing this a bit namby-pamby, not sure if people would embrace the whole thing or not. So I held back with the first assignment and now with the due date. Okey-doke. I'll stop tip-toeing and just whip this thing together.

August's assignment is listed above in this post (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=3453765&postcount=17).

Due date: August 21st. On that date, we open it to discussion.

Each assignment starts at roughly the first of the month. So that's 3 weeks to gather books and read, and 1 week to discuss. (I'm trying to give people with limited funds and resources enough time to play.)

Be sure to use your fellow posters if you have trouble tracking books down!

[Uncle Nobs]

Thanks, Fish. Hope you saved it to post on the 21st. I didn't get a chance to read it, but it looked interesting. :D

[fishtaco]

Thanks, Fish. Hope you saved it to post on the 21st. I didn't get a chance to read it, but it looked interesting. :DCrap, I didn't! :o

[Beast]

*Makes you all go buy the Uncanny X-Men Omnibus for the assignment.* :D

[Quarterwolf]

X-Men Vignettes Vol. 1. < Does this have the back up stories that were in the Classic X-Men issues? If so I already have them.

And this sounds like fun. Sign me up Nobs.

[Beast]

X-Men Vignettes Vol. 1. < Does this have the back up stories that were in the Classic X-Men issues? If so I already have them.

And this sounds like fun. Sign me up Nobs.
Yep. That's exactly what it is. Vignettes #1 includes the back-up stories from CLASSIC X-MEN #2 - #13. :)

[Quarterwolf]

Yep. That's exactly what it is. Vignettes #1 includes the back-up stories from CLASSIC X-MEN #2 - #13. :)

Woohoo. I am way in in that case. I love the back up stories from the Classic X-Men. Those are what X-Men Unlimited should be instead of what they do now.

[xakko]

*Makes you all go buy the Uncanny X-Men Omnibus for the assignment.* :D
another copy? it's hard enough storing the first one...

of course, there's the 40 years of X-men DVD too

[Beast]

another copy? it's hard enough storing the first one...

of course, there's the 40 years of X-men DVD too
*Grins* Damn I love that book. And anyone breaks in, and it's a deadly weapon. ;)

[spoon_jenkins]

Very cool idea! :) I'm on board for the first mission.

I agree that it could bring a new appreciation for old stuff. I bought a lot of my X-Men comics out of order, and I tend to read my comics individual or in smaller chunks. So I think reading them in big groups of 10 or 13 or 15 issues will give me a new perspective on stuff.

[Uncle Nobs]

Woohoo. I am way in in that case. I love the back up stories from the Classic X-Men. Those are what X-Men Unlimited should be instead of what they do now.
Suh-weet! We gots the QW on board!

Yeah, I have to admit a personal bias on this assignment. Classic X-Men #1 is what hooked me on comics and the X-Men. I found it in my local drugstore and I was hooked for life well before the second issue ever saw print.

[The Fury]

In single issues, this is easily available as Classic X-Men #1-13. As TPBs, you can find Giant-Size #1 and (Uncanny) X-Men #94-105 in all kinds of formats. X-Men Vignettes is available in TPB format nearly anywhere.

What do you all think?
Sounds good.

To people who can get them. UK residents can find this: ...er...Okay, have they stopped selling it? :confused:

Basically somewhere in the UK (WHSmiths or Waterstones maybe) there is a Uncanny X-men version of books like this: http://www.marvelstore.co.uk/product.aspx?CharacterID=&CategoryID=9&SubCategoryID=40&ID=1904419615

Which prin the exact issue above from GSX-men #1 to 105.

This is annoying me, where the heck are they...not even any on ebay.

EDIT: Okay I found a eBay auction of it...where the heck is it otherwise, not even on sale at Amazon. :confused:

http://cgi.ebay.ie/UNCANNY-X-MEN-Second-Genesis-MARVEL-POCKETBOOK_W0QQitemZ160013219662QQihZ006QQcategory Z17085QQssPageNameZWD4VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Mikl C]

Those pocketboks are sometimes in Easons..?

[The Fury]

Those pocketboks are sometimes in Easons..?
I've seen them in Waterstones and WhSmiths...never heard of Easons, are they a big book store? Then they migth well be. I've been looking for Vol 2 of the X-men oen for months, I don;t even know if it was released.

[Mikl C]

Panini are *insert swear word here* though. Yeh Easons is bookstore, I'm surprised you don't have them actually..

[The Fury]

Panini are *insert swear word here* though. Yeh Easons is bookstore, I'm surprised you don't have them actually..
Well, I don't know of them, might be one in Nottingham, not sure.

Panini are not the best sometimes, but when they publish GSX-men #1 and Uncanny 94-101 (I think it was 101) for £5, they get plus points in my view. I mean it was coloured and everything, okay only 2/3 the size of a normal comic but who cares about the size.

[Beast]

Well, I don't know of them, might be one in Nottingham, not sure.

Panini are not the best sometimes, but when they publish GSX-men #1 and Uncanny 94-101 (I think it was 101) for £5, they get plus points in my view. I mean it was coloured and everything, okay only 2/3 the size of a normal comic but who cares about the size.
Size matters, let me tell you. ;)

[Uncle Nobs]

Just some suggestions on tracking down the required reading for those of you who are willing to spend money:

Go for Classic X-Men #1-13. Relatively cheap and easy to find through your LCS or online shops. GREAT Arthur Adams front covers and frontispieces. Nearly as great (but underrated) back covers by John Bolton. No ads. Includes the classic Uncanny issues and the "Vignettes" backup stories by Bolton & Claremont. In some cases, Bolton & Claremont re-do key pages in the Uncanny issue itself (which is not a bad thing).

Or... Barnes & Noble teamed up with Marvel to produce a softcover series of Marvel Masterworks editions. At $12 for each 8-issue collection, it's a steal. (Twilight tells me he found one online for $5!) You'd still have to get the X-Men: Vignettes TPB, though.

Or... There's always Essential editions coupled with the X-Men: Vignettes TPB. But I like color, and the Marvel Masterworks gives me that.

Or... The 40 Years of X-Men DVD-rom is AMAZING! Not everyone likes reading comics on their computer, but I find that if you just re-size the windows properly, it's pretty effortless. I love mine! Only cost me 40 bucks, and I know they are offered cheaper sometimes. (Yes, you'd still need the the X-Men: Vignettes TPB, though.)

[Darkwave]

Definitely interested.

[spoon_jenkins]

Go for Classic X-Men #1-13. Relatively cheap and easy to find through your LCS or online shops. GREAT Arthur Adams front covers and frontispieces. Nearly as great (but underrated) back covers by John Bolton. No ads. Includes the classic Uncanny issues and the "Vignettes" backup stories by Bolton & Claremont. In some cases, Bolton & Claremont re-do key pages in the Uncanny issue itself (which is not a bad thing).

For those who want to find an individual reprint of Giant Size X-Men #1 with the original ending rather than the Claremont/Bolton "remake" ending, there are a couple options. Back in the 90s, Marvel produced a "Marvel Masterpiece" of GSX #1 that reprinted everything including the ads. And back in the 1982, GSX #1 was reprinted in a comic called Special Edition X-Men #1 along with a new back-up story.

Or if you have Vignettes but need the back-up story from Classic #1, there also a second alternative. That back-up was reprinted in a TPB called X-Men Rarities with obscure stories like a Generation X promotional comic, a Storm story from Marvel Fanfare, and an Iceman story from Bizarre Adventures.

[Hi-Fi]

I'm so excited!!

Being currently unemployed and aparently unable to get a job, I'll make this my project for the next semester!

It's been a while since I last re-read those issues!

[Gene M.]

I'm so excited!!

Being currently unemployed and aparently unable to get a job, I'll make this my project for the next semester!

It's been a while since I last re-read those issues!

Nice to know somebody's in the same situation as me.

[xgeek52]

i'm interested but i may not do august...some of the stuff is hard to get out here because a lot of the shops (and bookstores) don't carry it...

but i will endevor to perserver...

[spoon_jenkins]

For those of reading the Classic X-Men back-up stories as well, what reading order do folks think fits the spirit of the Danger Room assignment best? Should we read all the original stories to experience the original stories together and then read the Classic back-ups afterwards? Or should we read each reprint followed by each back-up (e.g. both stories from Classic #1, then both stories from Classic #2 . . .)? Or some other order?

[Uncle Nobs]

i'm interested but i may not do august...some of the stuff is hard to get out here because a lot of the shops (and bookstores) don't carry it...

but i will endevor to perserver...
Remember, there is nothing wrong with having your local Barnes & Noble or Borders order copies into their stores for you. You are not obligated to pay and it really does not inconvenience them. They just recirculate orders that people don't buy. It's a win-win for them because it drives customers into their stores multiple times.

[Mariah]

Remember, there is nothing wrong with having your local Barnes & Noble or Borders order copies into their stores for you. You are not obligated to pay and it really does not inconvenience them. They just recirculate orders that people don't buy. It's a win-win for them because it drives customers into their stores multiple times.
Okay, here it goes, I have a bunch of the original issues that we're gonna be discussing, but not all, and I really don't wanna buy trades or reprints and all that, so, can I discuss about what I have, and not discuss what I don't have?

[Brian M.]

Okay, here it goes, I have a bunch of the original issues that we're gonna be discussing, but not all, and I really don't wanna buy trades or reprints and all that, so, can I discuss about what I have, and not discuss what I don't have?

Your local Library may have some of the issues. They might carry some TPBs.

[Mariah]

Your local Library may have some of the issues. They might carry some TPBs.
I never thought about that. Thanks baby.

[Uncle Nobs]

Okay, here it goes, I have a bunch of the original issues that we're gonna be discussing, but not all, and I really don't wanna buy trades or reprints and all that, so, can I discuss about what I have, and not discuss what I don't have?
Well, that kinda spoils the exercise, you know? The point is to fully read (or re-read) things that we may have previously skipped or haven't read in a long time. That way, we all really take a hard look at something we might have dismissed and maybe expose ourselves to something new.

It sounds like this is also turning into an exercise in learning about our resources. There are tons of cheap, free, and/or easy ways to track down comics.

[Sentinel K]

Sounds good.

To people who can get them. UK residents can find this: ...er...Okay, have they stopped selling it? :confused:

Basically somewhere in the UK (WHSmiths or Waterstones maybe) there is a Uncanny X-men version of books like this: http://www.marvelstore.co.uk/product.aspx?CharacterID=&CategoryID=9&SubCategoryID=40&ID=1904419615

Which prin the exact issue above from GSX-men #1 to 105.

This is annoying me, where the heck are they...not even any on ebay.

EDIT: Okay I found a eBay auction of it...where the heck is it otherwise, not even on sale at Amazon. :confused:

http://cgi.ebay.ie/UNCANNY-X-MEN-Second-Genesis-MARVEL-POCKETBOOK_W0QQitemZ160013219662QQihZ006QQcategory Z17085QQssPageNameZWD4VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



Dude I can get those books for you. I see them everywhere.

Do you have a branch of Waterstones?

[The Fury]

Dude I can get those books for you. I see them everywhere.

Do you have a branch of Waterstones?
Yeah, I see them all the time also, but I have the first uncanny X-men Vol1 Pocket book, but i'm trying to find Vol2. Can't find it anywhere.

I see the others all the time but I do not want those.

[Sentinel K]

Yeah, I see them all the time also, but I have the first uncanny X-men Vol1 Pocket book, but i'm trying to find Vol2. Can't find it anywhere.

I see the others all the time but I do not want those.

Isn't volume 2 the Dark phoenix saga?

Or is that volume 3?

[The Fury]

Isn't volume 2 the Dark phoenix saga?

Or is that volume 3?
Vol 1 covers 94-101 I think. so Vol 2 should be 102 to...whatever. Maybe just Phoenix stories, but not yet dark.

I dunno, I can't find it too look in. But fi you could find a copy of Vol2 that would be great.

[Uncle Nobs]

We're about a week into our first assignment with about 2 weeks to go until the due date.

How is everyone doing? Are you finding what you need? Have you discovered new resources for getting your comics easier? Do you like pie?

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

I hope it's not too late to join? So you are saying all of this will be in the first Classic xmen? ...

I got a good suggestion for out next assignment, i think it should be the prequel to thePhoenix warbird mini ( i forgot it's real name)

[spoon_jenkins]

I hope it's not too late to join? So you are saying all of this will be in the first Classic xmen? ...
Gamer, the discussion for the first assignment doesn't start for another two weeks, so you're definitely not too late.

The assignment is in the 17th post of this thread: Giant-Size X-Men #1 and Uncanny X-Men #94-105. You can simply get Classic X-Men #1-13, because those issues reprint GSX #1 and Uncanny #94-105 at affordable prices. There are other ways to get the stories as well. Essential X-Men vol. 1 TPB reprints GSX #1 and #94-119 in a cheap black and white format. The X-Men Omnibus HC reprints GSX #1 and #94-131 and Annual #3 in a gigantic 800+ page book.

As a secondary assignment, we can read the back-up stories in Classic #1-13. You can also read most of those in the X-Men Vignettes TPB.

Any questions?

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

ok got it..i need to pickup classic xmen :D

[spoon_jenkins]

BTW, there are some Classic X-Men ebay auctions ending today if folks are still looking for the stuff. One seller has #1-12 on sale . So that's almost the whole assignment. Another seller has #1-76 available .

Someone else has Essential X-Men vol. 1. It's a little more than a day left on the auction at $0.99 and no one's bid on it .

[Uncle Nobs]

BTW, there are some Classic X-Men ebay auctions ending today if folks are still looking for the stuff. One seller has #1-12 on sale . So that's almost the whole assignment. Another seller has #1-76 available .

Someone else has Essential X-Men vol. 1. It's a little more than a day left on the auction at $0.99 and no one's bid on it .
I just want to take this opportunity to say that I have no auctions on eBay currently or anytime in the near future. This was not a way to drive up bids.

Just in case anyone's suspicious little mind was wondering. :D

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

lol k we got it.....so how much do you think the essantial xmen 1-13 will cost? If you buy it at a comic book shop?

[Novaya Havoc]

I'm game, so long as we include some Dazzler issue love.

[Uncle Nobs]

I'm game, so long as we include some Dazzler issue love.
Possibly. I'm thinking of switching month-to-month between core canon and more obscure runs.

So this month we do Uncanny, next month something more often overlooked, October we go back to where we left off in Uncanny, November is another hidden gem, and so on.

What does everyone think?

[Uncle Nobs]

I also want to reiterate that the whole point of this project is for us to read the entire assignment. The whole point is to actually examine work that we have previously overlooked, dismissed, or just skimmed.

I can't stop anyone from doing this half-assed, of course, but you'd just be cheating yourself out of the full experience.

[spoon_jenkins]

Possibly. I'm thinking of switching month-to-month between core canon and more obscure runs.

So this month we do Uncanny, next month something more often overlooked, October we go back to where we left off in Uncanny, November is another hidden gem, and so on.

What does everyone think?
Yeah, I like the idea of progressing through Uncanny, but alternating with other stuff. I think New Mutants, X-Factor, Wolverine, and Generation X would also be neat stuff.

A lot depends on what folks have or are willing to get. Early on someone suggested that we do stuff that's been reprinted so it's more easily accessible. That'd work for early X-Factor and Wolverine, which have both been Essential-ized. The second New Mutants Classic TPB is supposed to come out in November and run through #17.

Maybe we could dedicate an assignment to reading three different mini-series, although there a dangerous that the discussion would be less focused than with a single run.

[Uncle Nobs]

Just a heads-up: Eleven days to go until our due date.

[Arrjay]

This is an excellent thread Nobs.

Cheers man.

[Vegetarian Goat]

Hmm. I could've sworn that i'd posted in this thread already.. I'm in. I'm sure i have most of these comics anyway.

[KittyPryde]

Great idea! I have the entire run and it will give me an excuse to dig them out and re-read them (which I haven't done in years).

Sweet thinking! I look forward to the discussion!

[Uncle Nobs]

THIS IS IT, KIDDOS!

One week to go before our assignment is due on the 21st. No talking about the subject matter until then!!!

I will be having surgery on the 21st, so I'm hoping you will all be ready to start a very thoughtful, deep conversation on the works in question without me. I should be able to catch up with the conversation by the 22nd or 23rd. We'll see.

Remember: One week to go! :D

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

crap...i need to go out and buy this sooon.....>.<

[beachbum8994]

I'm good for this, I will go ahead and re-read these stories and be ready to discuss on the 21st! Good ole' Claremont/Cockrum goodness, should be fun!

[Uncle Nobs]

I'm good for this, I will go ahead and re-read these stories and be ready to discuss on the 21st! Good ole' Claremont/Cockrum goodness, should be fun!
Don't forget the Claremont/Bolton goodness, too! That's half the assignment right there.

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

Yey piking up classic xmen 1-13 today :D

[MDactor1980]

so i guess reading the summaries on uncannyxmen.net is totally cheating

[madthinker]

this is a pretty sweet idea...i picked up a full run of uncanny (actually 136 thru 400 or so) about a year ago and the guy i bought them from threw in the classic issues to make it complete from #94 up...problem is i haven't found the time to dive into them...i usually hate assignments, but this one may be particularly enjoyable. hopefully i'll have some mad thoughts to share on these works...

namaste.

[spoon_jenkins]

This is going to be so exciting. :D I wanna see the perspectives of different fans: folks who first read the issues years ago, folks who have read a lot of recent stuff but not much old stuff, and folks that are total noobs. I wanted to read through the whole assignment in one day, but I've just had time to read it one issue at a time. Hopefully, I might be able to re-read all together on Saturday or Sunday to have that effect.

[Uncle Nobs]

Alright guys, tomorrow is the day! Until then, no talking about the stories.

We'll have one week to discuss the issues. Feel free to jump in any time during that week. I, for one, will be having surgery tomorrow, so I'll be adding my thoughts later in the week.



Some suggestions for discussion topics (but share whatever you wish):

-What did you like and what didn't you like?

-What was particularly significant due to the era in comics and the world at large?

-What works well regardless of the time period and what seems dated? If it seems dated, how easy is it to simply imagine it with slightly more modern sensibilities?

-Had you read ALL of this before? If so, did rereading it change your perspective?

-Were you surprised to discover certain story elements?

-Did you find any plot threads that you'd like current writers to pick up on?

-Did you discover new resources in tracking your comics down? For instance, did you use your library to get your books for the first time? Did you discover how harmless ordering books through your local bookstore is--not even having to commit to buying them? Did you discover a new, cheap website?

-What changes did you discover in all the various reprint editions? Positive? Negative?



Be sure to make suggestions on our next assignment, too. After all, I only have about a week to decide.

Remember that October will mark our return to core canon, picking up where we left off this month. So September should be something more obscure, overlooked, misunderstood, etc. Look for runs of about 20-30 issues, so our assignment can be nice and meaty. This can be two complementary runs (like this month's assignment) or one single run.

I'm looking forward to hearing from everyone! :D

[xakko]

I finished reading up this morning... can't wait to hear peoples opinions...

[spoon_jenkins]

Just finished my reading. Thankfully the start of discussion is just around the corner! :D

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

Sorry Nobs, I couldn't get a hold of it...my LCS didn't have the classic xmen HC..or TBS...they said someone else boght it...and they didn't have all the single issues, and they were really expensive...sorry :(

[Uncle Nobs]

Sorry Nobs, I couldn't get a hold of it...my LCS didn't have the classic xmen HC..or TBS...they said someone else boght it...and they didn't have all the single issues, and they were really expensive...sorry :(
Hey, no worries. You can always catch up with us. The current plan is to continue the core canon (Uncanny and related timely spinoffs) every other month for the foreseeable future.

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

k thx...can you give me the next reading assignment?

[spoon_jenkins]

Hey, Gamer! Maybe you'd wanna pick up Essential X-Men 1 and 2. It would have the first few core canon assignments. It's not gonna have the Classic X-Men back-up stories and it's black-and-white, but it's a real bargain.

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

I see...well i kindoff wanted to read the classic xmen...but..i think i saved enogh spare money, for me to get the next esignment :D

[spoon_jenkins]

Here's my opening thoughts.

I read the issues in Classic X-Men form, except I read a "Marvel Milestone Edition" of Giant-Size X-Men. Unfortunately, I realized a bit late that I couldn't find my X-Men Rarities TPB that reprints the CSX #1 back-up story. I've previously read it all before. However, I've never read it consecutively before (just maybe 4 or 5 issues of the run in a row). I think I only read CSX #11 once before.

I was really impressed by Dave Cockrum's art. I forgot how good it could be. I think his early X-Men has more of a serious, sophisticated look than some of his later stuff. It probably helped that these issues were bimonthly. I love how he draws certain "power signatures" like Jean Grey unleashing her telekinesis during the restaurant battle with the Sentinels in #98.

I was also impressed by how quickly Claremont built up the underdeveloped personality of Jean Grey. She becomes a very bold, strong-willed woman rather than just "the girl."

Speaking of Jean, CC also kept using old cast members. I forgot how frequently she appeared even before becoming Phoenix. Plus, Havok and Polaris have their appearances.

Also, it's noticeable that CC begun early with his pattern of interweaving subplots and character development with the main plots. In fact, I feel #96 was much more about setting up future events (Steven Lang, Moira McTaggart) than it is about the N'Garai storyline in the issue itself. And #97 gives early hints of Lilandra that don't pay off until #105.

There's not much that I disliked. I didn't really like the new pages that Classic inserted in the original stories. Some of it had a very "Greedo shot first" feel to it. He altered stuff like playing up a Wolvie/Thunderbird rivalry.

In these issues, we see a lot of the good of CC without some of the annoyances that creeped into his writing later. Characters have distinct speech patterns rather than a shared Claremont speech pattern.

I have a lot more to write (like stuff on the CSX back-up stories), but I'll stop to break up my comments a bit and read others' thoughts. :D

[fishtaco]

so i guess reading the summaries on uncannyxmen.net is totally cheatingNot to mention unhelpful. Some of UXN's summaries (especially the ones for the Outback issues) are quite vague and they don't offer much in terms of helping the reader understand the big picture. They're inconsistent with each other, and most importantly in this case, it wouldn't be that hard to tell if someone read the summaries on UXN and not the actual issues. Also, UXN seems to have more of an interest in doing summaries of New Avengers, Civil War and House of M tie-ins than X-books. A lot of their information is false, as well. Still, I appreciate their efforts and devotion. Here's my opening thoughts.

I read the issues in Classic X-Men form, except I read a "Marvel Milestone Edition" of Giant-Size X-Men. Unfortunately, I realized a bit late that I couldn't find my X-Men Rarities TPB that reprints the CSX #1 back-up story. I've previously read it all before. However, I've never read it consecutively before (just maybe 4 or 5 issues of the run in a row). I think I only read CSX #11 once before.

I was really impressed by Dave Cockrum's art. I forgot how good it could be. I think his early X-Men has more of a serious, sophisticated look than some of his later stuff. It probably helped that these issues were bimonthly. I love how he draws certain "power signatures" like Jean Grey unleashing her telekinesis during the restaurant battle with the Sentinels in #98.

I was also impressed by how quickly Claremont built up the underdeveloped personality of Jean Grey. She becomes a very bold, strong-willed woman rather than just "the girl."

Speaking of Jean, CC also kept using old cast members. I forgot how frequently she appeared even before becoming Phoenix. Plus, Havok and Polaris have their appearances.

Also, it's noticeable that CC begun early with his pattern of interweaving subplots and character development with the main plots. In fact, I feel #96 was much more about setting up future events (Steven Lang, Moira McTaggart) than it is about the N'Garai storyline in the issue itself. And #97 gives early hints of Lilandra that don't pay off until #105.

There's not much that I disliked. I didn't really like the new pages that Classic inserted in the original stories. Some of it had a very "Greedo shot first" feel to it. He altered stuff like playing up a Wolvie/Thunderbird rivalry.

In these issues, we see a lot of the good of CC without some of the annoyances that creeped into his writing later. Characters have distinct speech patterns rather than a shared Claremont speech pattern.

I have a lot more to write (like stuff on the CSX back-up stories), but I'll stop to break up my comments a bit and read others' thoughts. All interesting points. I liked how Chris started building up subplots in his first full issue where he gets creative freedom (#96). #95 was his plotting, but he had to tie up the events of #94, and he was forced to kill Thunderbird.

I have some questions...

1. Are the extra pages in the Classic X-Men (1st stories) pages that were originally supposed to appear in the issues but were deleted for space? For example, were Sebastian Shaw and Tessa really supposed to appear first in X-Men (1st Series) #98?

2. What exactly happened at the end of the Classic X-Men #6 back-up story? Cyclops takes Phoenix out on a date, and as soon as they leave Jean's apartment, there's a big explosion. What?

3. Uncanny X-Men #108 is an issue in this assignment, right? If not, then ignore this question. If so, then I wonder if Chris introduced "The City Within The Crystal" to be connected to the whole Order v.s. Chaos plotline with Storm and Forge, and then Destiny in Uncanny X-Men #254-255. That's the impression I got when I re-read it.

[spoon_jenkins]

I have some questions...

1. Are the extra pages in the Classic X-Men (1st stories) pages that were originally supposed to appear in the issues but were deleted for space? For example, were Sebastian Shaw and Tessa really supposed to appear first in X-Men (1st Series) #98?
I think I've someone mention the "deleted for space" idea before, but I think that may have just been idle speculation. It's seems to me a lot of them seem like mid-1980s hindsight from CC rather than fitting what he thought at the time. For example, one new scene references the ballet dancer CSX back-up story. And the new pages portray Wolverine in a more positive light.

2. What exactly happened at the end of the Classic X-Men #6 back-up story? Cyclops takes Phoenix out on a date, and as soon as they leave Jean's apartment, there's a big explosion. What?
I think there's supposed to be a big time lag between the second to last page and the last page. The explosion is from the Sentinel attack against Scott and Jean in the restaurant. You'll notice the Sentinel flying in background through the window. It's just such a big explosion that it shakes the apartment many blocks away. And it knocks down the poster, foreshadowing Phoenix.

3. Uncanny X-Men #108 is an issue in this assignment, right? If not, then ignore this question.
Nah, just through #105.

[fishtaco]

I think I've someone mention the "deleted for space" idea before, but I think that may have just been idle speculation. It's seems to me a lot of them seem like mid-1980s hindsight from CC rather than fitting what he thought at the time. For example, one new scene references the ballet dancer CSX back-up story. And the new pages portray Wolverine in a more positive light. Okay, then. So are these new pages canon?

I think there's supposed to be a big time lag between the second to last page and the last page. The explosion is from the Sentinel attack against Scott and Jean in the restaurant. You'll notice the Sentinel flying in background through the window. It's just such a big explosion that it shakes the apartment many blocks away. And it knocks down the poster, foreshadowing Phoenix.Ohh. That works, then, although it also seems kind of filler, compared to some of the other CXM backups we've seen (#'s 3, 7-8, 12, 15-16, 19, 24, 29, 42-43 are some that come to mind).

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

He fishtaco, check your pm box....

[spoon_jenkins]

Okay, then. So are these new pages canon?
I think they'd be considered canon simply because Marvel published it. But AFAIK the pages don't get reprinted elsewhere (e.g. Masterworks and Essentials), so that may be an argument against being canon. Sometimes they change the meaning of stuff. For example, inserted scenes redefined how much time has lapsed.

Ohh. That works, then, although it also seems kind of filler, compared to some of the other CXM backups we've seen (#'s 3, 7-8, 12, 15-16, 19, 24, 29, 42-43 are some that come to mind).
That's funny because the CSX #6 backup is one of my favorite. I think it has value just in and of itself regardless of whether it's integral to know Jean's prep for the date. It's a really nice character study. Then again, I'm a big Jean/Scott fan, so that story really resonates with me.

[fishtaco]

I think they'd be considered canon simply because Marvel published it. But AFAIK the pages don't get reprinted elsewhere (e.g. Masterworks and Essentials), so that may be an argument against being canon. Sometimes they change the meaning of stuff. For example, inserted scenes redefined how much time has lapsed.Hmm.
That's funny because the CSX #6 backup is one of my favorite. I think it has value just in and of itself regardless of whether it's integral to know Jean's prep for the date. It's a really nice character study. Then again, I'm a big Jean/Scott fan, so that story really resonates with me.It wasn't a bad story, and the art was good, but I just think, while looking at these other backups that have important material in them, that they could have done more to at least expand the Scott/Jean relationship other than just showing how they were attacked by the sentinels in Uncanny X-Men #98. I wish that we would have gotten a back-up that explains the first fight between Rogue and Sebastian, or the hatred between Carol and Raven that was supposed to take place had Ms. Marvel not been cancelled. The thing with the arms shipping deal and the Shadow King (or at least the shadowy figure that Carol was dancing with in the Black Queen outfit that told her to kill Rogue) and all that. Oh, well.

Has anyone noticed that the end of Uncanny X-Men #296 is homage to Uncanny X-Men #98?

[Hi-Fi]

My thoughts:

First, I think Lein Wen did an incredible job with Giant-Size X-Men. The story is totally old-school and is really competent in presenting the new characters as well as reminding the readers about the original team. Plus, it's such a diverse cast that you can't stop thinking how the hell will those characters get along.

One of my favorite moments of Uncanny X-Men is the opening scene from (Uncanny)X-Men #98, because it shows exactly how diferent the charcaters are. Jean loves the snow, Storm has a completely diferent opinion about it, when she remembers the Kilimanjaro, Kurt wants to flirt, Sean just want some quiet time with Moira (they're not kids anymore) and Logan is just a loner.

I like how CC made it clear in Classic X-Men #1 why the original team could not be with the New X-Men in the same house. Angel and Logan hated each other at first sight, Jean didn't like having Logan around. His presence was enerving her in ways she could not believe. Iceman coudn't get along with anyone.


I just love the scene between Jean and Xavier at the end of Classic X-Men #1. It's probably my favorite moment with said characters together. It just flows so warm and natural. The only one that captured their confidence and intimacy after Claremont was Grant Morrison, years later, in my opinion.


I also get the impression that Claremont doesn't really like to write Iceman. We see Jean having lots of appearences (even before the Phoenix Saga), as did Beast, Polaris and Havok. And when we see Iceman in Classic X-Men, he's acting like a big jerk.

About the back stories from Classic X-Men, I gotta say that my favorites are the ones that spotlight the X-Men friendships, especially the Jean/Storm tale and the Nightcrawler/Logan story. I always thought that the bonding part of the X-Books was one of the best features of those comics, and knowing the characters so well, CC does a fantastic job in showing that bonding between the characters convincing. I just love when the Storm and Jean's confrontation at the end of the story.


Dave Cockrum's art is cute. That is all.

[Hi-Fi]

In these issues, we see a lot of the good of CC without some of the annoyances that creeped into his writing later. Characters have distinct speech patterns rather than a shared Claremont speech pattern.


I so agree with this.

[The Fury]

Okay, so I only read GiantSized#1 and 94-101 (sorry couldn;t get the others).

They were as I thought, excellent. :)

What I noticed most was the character dynamics and interaction. As I only started reading comic 6 or 7 years ago, i collected comics via back issues and the 94-150 range are hard to come. So i read alot more modern stuff. The characters being new to each other give a nice dynamic, the main ones i noticed and liked was Jean and Storm's friendship, which was a quick one but seemed genuine and strong. Wolverine's relationship with Jean in these issues is interesting too, especially becuase of the fight Jean had with him. Sunfire is also a good character for the first issue. Normally you'd get a new team character that stays with them, but his pride and general argoance towards the team gave an interesting feel to things.

Of course reading this all again after reading Whedon's short Giant Sized X-men #3 story and brubakers story...well they seem wrose.

[xakko]

I read it through the Omnibus, along with the Classic X-Men backup stories (and additional insert pages)

random, beginning thoughts:

i love Art Adams covers.

the letters pages: gee, Colossus almost got no respect from the beginning, did he? Although it was interesting that nearly every character got put through the ringer at one point or another, culminating with Sam Mandel's letter in #101 about bringing back the "real" X-men, adding in Wolverine to replace Beast. There was less anger over Thunderbird's death than I expected.

overall, it was amusing to see the way people reacted prior to the message boards- and how, in many ways, there is little difference.

Nightcrawler: Aside from you know who, he was by far my favorite in these stories. From his concern for Scott early on, to his wonder at their impending shuttle launch, in many ways, he was the most complex character of the original crew. I loved his back up story "The Big Dare". I didn't like "The Gift" as much, partly because of an unnecessary supernatural element, but also because CC directly contradicts #102 and #103, where his ability to "disappear" in shadow, not blend in, was established. I liked how this was later picked up in Excalibur #63.

I'm sorry to harp on it, but can anyone reconcile Giant-sized #1 and the rewritten pages in Classic X-men #1 with Deadly Genesis?

I know it was his new direction, but the back up in Classic X-Men #1 was a bit Greedo shooting first for me. Jean leaves because of her attraction to Wolverine? I'm sorry, but that didn't jive with the original issues, where he didn't seem to express interest until #100... it's a long way from "look, lady, you guys want out that badly then go! split! take off!"

Was that Geraldo Rivera in #99???

more later...

[Brian M.]

I think a lot of what makes this work good is the amount of emotion you feel for these new character right away. I mean at the time the Originals were the team, they were X-Men and you had all that history with them. Then this new team comes along and you don't really know much about them. I love how Claremont started out w/ these characters, you could tell there was much depth to them but it was more a "Wait and See" kinda thing.

[The Fury]

I'm sorry to harp on it, but can anyone reconcile Giant-sized #1 and the rewritten pages in Classic X-men #1 with Deadly Genesis?

I know it was his new direction, but the back up in Classic X-Men #1 was a bit Greedo shooting first for me. Jean leaves because of her attraction to Wolverine? I'm sorry, but that didn't jive with the original issues, where he didn't seem to express interest until #100... it's a long way from "look, lady, you guys want out that badly then go! split! take off!"
Xakko, I do not have the issues at hand, and my memory is giving up on me in this case. When does Jean say she left becuase of her attraction to wolverine? which book again?

[xakko]

Xakko, I do not have the issues at hand, and my memory is giving up on me in this case. When does Jean say she left becuase of her attraction to wolverine? which book again?
Classic X-men #1 back up story:
Prof. X:"The conflict strikes so deeply?"

Jean: "Ohhhh, Professor - you have no idea. I thought the patterns of my life were all neatly, properly ordered- but one look from Wolverine has smashed them to bits. I love Scott with all my heart, but I also can't deny the attraction between me and Wovlerine. The longer we're together... the more afraid I am of yielding."

[The Fury]

Classic X-men #1 back up story:
Prof. X:"The conflict strikes so deeply?"

Jean: "Ohhhh, Professor - you have no idea. I thought the patterns of my life were all neatly, properly ordered- but one look from Wolverine has smashed them to bits. I love Scott with all my heart, but I also can't deny the attraction between me and Wovlerine. The longer we're together... the more afraid I am of yielding."
Aha, gotcha, i read reprints of the main issues only not Classic Reprints.

That is interesting, and I find like you a bit out. It seems off to me. Especialyl if you put it with what she said to him in #100...right?

[Hi-Fi]

Guys, Claremont needed a reason to get Jean off the book. I mean, in the original story, she just leaves with the others without any particular reason. She just says she's an adult now and need to live her life. But we all know that Scott is her life at that point.

I think that Jean saw the potential for trouble have she stayed at the mansion. It's not like she was ready to jump in bed with Logan.

Plus, I think that the Jean/Logan talk in Classic X-Men #1 is cute.

[xakko]

Guys, Claremont needed a reason to get Jean off the book. I mean, in the original story, she just leaves with the others without any particular reason. She just says she's an adult now and need to live her life. But we all know that Scott is her life at that point.

I think that Jean saw the potential for trouble have she stayed at the mansion. It's not like she was ready to jump in bed with Logan.

Plus, I think that the Jean/Logan talk in Classic X-Men #1 is cute.
he'd already gotten Jean off the book 11 years earlier.

her throughts right before Logan showed up were enough: "A week ago, the original X-men were the only X-men. Tonight, we're outnumbered by a band of strangers. We're not unique anymore. Perhaps no longer even needed. I wonder if that's bad?"

Jean was the one who left the X-men to go to college. She stayed in touch, yeah, but she also enjoyed being away from the team. Of all of them, aside from Angel, she was the best suited to the outside world.

CC, as fishtaco will gladly tell you, was setting up a Logan-Jean romance, and he was retconning it into the very beginning.

[Hi-Fi]

he'd already gotten Jean off the book 11 years earlier.

Without a plausible reason, though. For me, anyway. She left the X-Men but was guest starring in every other issue.



her throughts right before Logan showed up were enough: "A week ago, the original X-men were the only X-men. Tonight, we're outnumbered by a band of strangers. We're not unique anymore. Perhaps no longer even needed. I wonder if that's bad?"

That's why I think it's unfair to say that her only reason to leave was Logan. I think he was one of the factors, yes, but not all of it. She was making her mind about it and he was the factor that ultimately made her decide to go away.

Again, I don't think it was forced because it wasn't like she was ready to sleep with Logan or was falling in love with him. She just saw the potential to something bad for her relationship with Cyclops.

[spoon_jenkins]

i love Art Adams covers.
Me too. I think my faves are the rumble between X-Men (#8), Phoenix rising from the water (#9), and Phoenix attacked by Firelord (#13). And going back to the original issues, the Rich Buckler cover to #97 is really cool.

Nightcrawler: Aside from you know who, he was by far my favorite in these stories. From his concern for Scott early on, to his wonder at their impending shuttle launch, in many ways, he was the most complex character of the original crew.
Yeah, Nightcrawler was really cool. I was gonna mention that early on it seemed CC was trying to build Nightcrawler-Cyclops friendship. Kurt seems to show a lot of concern for Scott. He talks to him after Cyke's argument with Thunderbird, he consoles Scott when he's distraught about Jean flying the shuttle, and he tried to check in on Scott after they learn Jean will recover. This re-reading was the first time I ever noticed this developing friendship.

On the other hand, I think my memory created more hints of a Colossus-Storm romance than there actually were. It was mostly just in one issue.

And interestingly, Xavier tells Moira in the hospital that he once thought he loved Jean. Eewww.

I know it was his new direction, but the back up in Classic X-Men #1 was a bit Greedo shooting first for me. Jean leaves because of her attraction to Wolverine? I'm sorry, but that didn't jive with the original issues, where he didn't seem to express interest until #100... it's a long way from "look, lady, you guys want out that badly then go! split! take off!"
Yeah, I'm a bit iffy on some of the retconning in Classic to fit then-current directions. I think CX #1-13 were published at the same time as UXM #209-221. Jean showed annoyance rather than interest in Logan back in the day, but by 1986, I think CC had soured on Scott and wanted to work the Jean-Logan angle.

And I prefer some of the characters as portrayed in the original stories to their 1986-87 type personalities in the back-up stories. In the back-ups, I think Wolvie and Storm come across as very arrogant at times, because CC decided they were perfect and always knew best. Like Storm is much better than our close-minded culture because she doesn't feel the need to wear clothes. And Wolvie, who tried to kill Kurt in the CX #4 main story, is the wise sage who lambastes Kurt over his cowardice in back-up story.

Was that Geraldo Rivera in #99???

Yup. Legend has it he used to be considered a legitimate journalist.

[spoon_jenkins]

BTW, I gotta reiterate how beautiful Cockrum's early art was in these issues. I'm a bit lukewarm about some of his stuff. So maybe this was his best period, or maybe it's better this re-reading. He did some nice panel layouts, fight scenes, splash pages, etc. I love Xavier's dream sequence about the Shi'ar in #97 and the panels with Storm unleashing her power against Lorna in the same ish. I love Jean and Scott versus the Sentinels at the restaurant. Cockrum draws great Sentinels. And the first page of #101 is amazing. Jean's face depicted in the yellow, orange, and red looks fantastic.

But if there's one issue I'm not so sure about, it'd be #103. Because there aretwo things I don't believe in - coincidences and leprechauns.

[xakko]

what was everyone's favorite back up story? for me, it was "A Love Story"... I think that was what actually made me a Scott-Jean fan, when I read it back in the day. No words necessary...

[fishtaco]

CC, as fishtaco will gladly tell you, was setting up a Logan-Jean romance, and he was retconning it into the very beginning.Some of it was retconning, sure, but there was some stuff in there from the start, like when Logan cut Jean's skirt in Uncanny X-Men #98 (he did the same to Ororo in Uncanny X-Men #446, which during this time Claremont was trying to tell a Ororo/Logan romance instead of Logan and Jean. It was a homage). Chris started experimenting with this idea more when Byrne was on the book, and I would guess that Jean would have went from Scott to Logan at around #175, with some important development in #150. But that was all when Jean was supposed to be de-powered, not killed, in #137. On the other hand, I think my memory created more hints of a Colossus-Storm romance than there actually were. It was mostly just in one issue.Yes, but this was dropped as Claremont's vision of the two characters became more clear to him, and when Kitty was introduced. I'm glad we didn't see it. And interestingly, Xavier tells Moira in the hospital that he once thought he loved Jean. Eewww.Heh. See Uncanny X-Men #3. If I ever meet Stan Lee, I'd like to ask him what that was all about, if he remembers. This was picked up 35 years later in X-Men (2nd Series) #53. When Claremont referenced this in that issue, I'm not completely sure if that scene in Uncanny X-Men #3 is what he is referring to. I think Xavier loves Jean, but not romantically (not anymore, at least, if he actually ever did). She's his first student, and they have a bond that none of the other X-Men, not even the other orignal X-Men can understand. I think Charles loves all of his students, whether they be X-Man, New Mutant, etc in a way a parent would love his children. I've been puzzled by that scene in Uncanny X-Men #3 for years now. In Stan's defense, I don't think he ever established just how old Charles really was while he was writing. He might have even been in his late 20's!!!BTW, I gotta reiterate how beautiful Cockrum's early art was in these issues. I'm a bit lukewarm about some of his stuff. So maybe this was his best period, or maybe it's better this re-reading. He did some nice panel layouts, fight scenes, splash pages, etc. I love Xavier's dream sequence about the Shi'ar in #97 and the panels with Storm unleashing her power against Lorna in the same ish. I love Jean and Scott versus the Sentinels at the restaurant. Cockrum draws great Sentinels. And the first page of #101 is amazing. Jean's face depicted in the yellow, orange, and red looks fantastic.Yeah, Dave was brilliant. His second run was just as good. Dave is definitely one of the definitive X-Men artists in history.


I liked Beast's reaction to Professor Xavier telling him who the X-Men are in Uncanny X-Men #94. I thought that was funny for some reason...

[xakko]

Some of it was retconning, sure, but there was some stuff in there from the start, like when Logan cut Jean's skirt in Uncanny X-Men #98 (he did the same to Ororo in Uncanny X-Men #446, which during this time Claremont was trying to tell a Ororo/Logan romance instead of Logan and Jean. It was a homage). Chris started experimenting with this idea more when Byrne was on the book, and I would guess that Jean would have went from Scott to Logan at around #175, with some important development in #150. But that was all when Jean was supposed to be de-powered, not killed, in #137.

I liked Beast's reaction to Professor Xavier telling him who the X-Men are in Uncanny X-Men #94.
Jean wasn't showing any reciprocal affection in the early X-men, unlike in the back up tales, where she explicitly states attraction to Wolverine.

[fishtaco]

Jean wasn't showing any reciprocal affection in the early X-men, unlike in the back up tales, where she explicitly states attraction to Wolverine.True, but in the back up tales she doesn't say anything about her attraction to him with him around, did she?

[spoon_jenkins]

what was everyone's favorite back up story? for me, it was "A Love Story"... I think that was what actually made me a Scott-Jean fan, when I read it back in the day. No words necessary...
I'd also call "A Love Story" (#6) my favorite of the back-ups. It's so well crafted. "Tag, Sucker" (#10) is a good one, too: Wolverine and Sabretooth from when Logan still had his mystique and wasn't overexposed. It also represents Claremont's attempt to tie in the Classic back-ups to what he was writing at Uncanny at the time. Classic #10 was published not long after the Mutant Massacre but before the Marauders/X-Men rematch in San Fran.

I'd rank "Prison of the Heart" (#5) and "The Gift" (#9) up there as well. That's the different tone of story that I think the Claremont/Bolton collaboration was suited for. I think those were the first two Classic back-ups I ever read. Nice to see Piotr and Kurt get some attention.

On the other hand, Hope (#11) struck me as pretty cheesy. Look! Storm rescues a Claremont stand-in. :rolleyes:

[fishtaco]

My favorites Classic X-Men backups from #'s 1-13 were 3, 7, and 12.

[Brian M.]

I never got the impression that Claremont was trying to set up a Logan/Jean romance. Espically after knowing his plans for after the DP Saga. I just don't see it. Maybe a triangle but I really don't think he had the plans to have her leave Scott.

[fishtaco]

I never got the impression that Claremont was trying to set up a Logan/Jean romance. Espically after knowing his plans for after the DP Saga. I just don't see it. Maybe a triangle but I really don't think he had the plans to have her leave Scott.Well, he said so himself. He was building the story even through the Dark Phoenix Saga, and the original plan for the wedding of Logan and Mariko also points in that direction.

[Brian M.]

Well, he said so himself. He was building the story even through the Dark Phoenix Saga, and the original plan for the wedding of Logan and Mariko also points in that direction.

I don't know as much about possible plans of Claremont's as you do so could you explain the whole thing for Logan and Mariko.

[fishtaco]

I don't know as much about possible plans of Claremont's as you do so could you explain the whole thing for Logan and Mariko.eh, now that I think about it the part I'm thinking of is only speculation that would make sense with what was happening. Nevermind. The only thing I know about Jean during the original plan was that she was going to connect Logan with Marilko telepathically while she was on her life support module, and a fight with Sabretooth. But there's something else, that I don't even want to say because it's not verified. I prefer to look more at the post-1991 stuff than the Phoenix: The Untold Story-onwards stuff. I like the original ending better.

Anyway, another hint was in Uncanny X-Men #110.

Keeping within the issues our discussion is supposed to be about (sorry, guys), Logan bought Jean flowers in Uncanny X-Men #101 and wondered why he is so interested in a woman, since he's always been a loner, although it doesn't explain the Seraph thing (since she was the one who taught him to act civil in the first place and sacrificed herself for Logan to retain what he learned from her).There were lots of things going on about this in these issues, but it all got put on the shelf when Jean died.

[Uncle Nobs]

Hi everyone. I've been recovering from my second surgery this month, so I have some catching up to do. (And I've been posting everywhere but here because I've been very doped up.)

Thanks so much for playing along without me and keeping the momentum going strong. :) I'm going to respond for a while before I post my impressions that I specifically wanted to talk about.

...I was really impressed by Dave Cockrum's art. I forgot how good it could be.
Cockrum is truly amazing here. Giant Size is a masterpiece. There are so many images that are burned into my brain. So many images that would beautifully transfer to silkscreens or wall art or what-have-you. You're right about him being at the top of his game, too. His later work isn't as strong.

...I was also impressed by how quickly Claremont built up the underdeveloped personality of Jean Grey. She becomes a very bold, strong-willed woman rather than just "the girl."

...Also, it's noticeable that CC begun early with his pattern of interweaving subplots and character development with the main plots.
I wonder... Does anyone know how involved Claremont was with Giant Size? I know he isn't credited and the next issue splits the writing credits with Wein. But still I wonder. They must have had him involved somehow.

...I didn't really like the new pages that Classic inserted in the original stories. Some of it had a very "Greedo shot first" feel to it. He altered stuff like playing up a Wolvie/Thunderbird rivalry.
Really? It felt very dignified to me. I feel like Claremont explored the potential that became visible in hindsight. I don't feel like he hurt anything.

[Uncle Nobs]

I think they'd be considered canon simply because Marvel published it. But AFAIK the pages don't get reprinted elsewhere (e.g. Masterworks and Essentials), so that may be an argument against being canon. Sometimes they change the meaning of stuff. For example, inserted scenes redefined how much time has lapsed.
It's 100% canon. It's a very intentional effort made by Marvel and Claremont specifically to flesh out the history.

That's funny because the CSX #6 backup is one of my favorite. I think it has value just in and of itself regardless of whether it's integral to know Jean's prep for the date. It's a really nice character study. Then again, I'm a big Jean/Scott fan, so that story really resonates with me.
I agree. Such a strong piece just for its simplicity. Just to see Jean for the last time in her life that things would be so simple for her. She's in love and she has no idea what horrors and wonders lie ahead.

[Uncle Nobs]

That's why I think it's unfair to say that her only reason to leave was Logan. I think he was one of the factors, yes, but not all of it. She was making her mind about it and he was the factor that ultimately made her decide to go away.

Again, I don't think it was forced because it wasn't like she was ready to sleep with Logan or was falling in love with him. She just saw the potential to something bad for her relationship with Cyclops.
Well said, and I'd like to expound a bit.

Before her encounter with Logan at the tree, she was having all kinds of doubts. When she spoke to Xavier later, she chose to talk about a more intimate fear she was experiencing. I felt this explored Xavier as her confidant and was very significant for doing so.

As telepaths, they shared a unique bond and were quite naked with each other, being open about motivations that drive them at their core, motivations that people are able to lie to themselves about but telepaths are forced to "hear" constantly. I think they each had a greater sense of self-awareness due to daily experiencing other people's deepest thoughts.

More importantly, this scene beautifully defines Jean. She is a woman whose passions frighten and tempt her equally, always balanced on a precarious edge. Not just her lust. This is the essence of who Jean is. Her passions overwhelm her. She senses it early in her life and fears it. Later, as Phoenix and all throughout the years, she is always on the verge of succumbing to desires terrible and exciting and unknown.

Logan is just the impetus for that moment, a mere symptom of something much, much larger.

[Uncle Nobs]

And interestingly, Xavier tells Moira in the hospital that he once thought he loved Jean. Eewww.
Not so eewww to me.

I was just blathering on about their intimate bond, but also there is the question of Xavier's age. Many readers assume he is in his 50s or 60s, when in fact he could very easily be in his 40s or even 30s when he first founded the X-Men.

Claremont went to great lengths to portray him as masculine and even verile. When Joe Casey was writing Children of the Atom, (which commonly divides fans over whether it is canon or not) he said in an interview that he wrote Xavier as 27 when he founded the X-Men--! Personally, I think that goes too far, but I see that he was just trying to assert just how extraordinary Xavier is.

EDIT: Ah! I see Fishy made this same point.

[Uncle Nobs]

I really want everyone to consider this point:

As true as it is to say that Claremont wrote his Classic backup stories (Vignettes) to suit the direction of the title in 1986-87, it is just as true to say that he was exploring and recreating the hidden potential that was always there.

It's only natural for a writer to discover the hidden potential of his own completed work in hindsight. There is always subtext that a writer either cannot find a way to explore at the time or discovers later that he had subconsciously layered into his work.

[Uncle Nobs]

We must have lurkers. So few have posted so far.

Don't be shy, fellas! Jump in, even if it's just to say you liked/disliked it.

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

idk, they might be afraid that your avatar will consume there soul....

[fishtaco]

Well said, and I'd like to expound a bit.

Before her encounter with Logan at the tree, she was having all kinds of doubts. When she spoke to Xavier later, she chose to talk about a more intimate fear she was experiencing. I felt this explored Xavier as her confidant and was very significant for doing so.

As telepaths, they shared a unique bond and were quite naked with each other, being open about motivations that drive them at their core, motivations that people are able to lie to themselves about but telepaths are forced to "hear" constantly. I think they each had a greater sense of self-awareness due to daily experiencing other people's deepest thoughts.

More importantly, this scene beautifully defines Jean. She is a woman whose passions frighten and tempt her equally, always balanced on a precarious edge. Not just her lust. This is the essence of who Jean is. Her passions overwhelm her. She senses it early in her life and fears it. Later, as Phoenix and all throughout the years, she is always on the verge of succumbing to desires terrible and exciting and unknown.

Logan is just the impetus for that moment, a mere symptom of something much, much larger.I agree. This is how I see Jean, too.

[Novaya Havoc]

I want to participate, but I really can't pin down those copies of Classic X-Men. :(

[Uncle Nobs]

I want to participate, but I really can't pin down those copies of Classic X-Men. :(
(Forgive me for being repetitive.)

For those of you who couldn't participate this time, keep in mind that we will return to core canon every other month. So you have plenty of time to catch up if you like.

I'd still like to hear anyone's choices for our other future assignments--the more obscure or misunderstood stuff.

[Novaya Havoc]

I'd still like to hear anyone's choices for our other future assignments--the more obscure or misunderstood stuff.

I won't even bother recommending the very obvious choice. ;)

[spoon_jenkins]

I wonder... Does anyone know how involved Claremont was with Giant Size? I know he isn't credited and the next issue splits the writing credits with Wein. But still I wonder. They must have had him involved somehow.
From what I've read, I don't think Claremont was involved in writing GSX #1. The plan was to have Wein be the regularly writer. However, Wein was in the midst of his brief tenure as editor-in-chief and quickly realized he'd have to drop X-Men to handle his workload. So he had plotted #94-95, which Cockrum was in the process of drawing when CC was brought in to script it. Wein and CC apparently had very different visions for characters.

[spoon_jenkins]

I really want everyone to consider this point:

As true as it is to say that Claremont wrote his Classic backup stories (Vignettes) to suit the direction of the title in 1986-87, it is just as true to say that he was exploring and recreating the hidden potential that was always there.

It's only natural for a writer to discover the hidden potential of his own completed work in hindsight. There is always subtext that a writer either cannot find a way to explore at the time or discovers later that he had subconsciously layered into his work.
Let me discuss my thoughts on the new materials in Classic - both the vignettes and the pages inserted into the old stories.

In some of my criticism of the new materials, I may come across harsher than I intend to. In general, I liked the vignettes. I think some of them are truly great. Bolton does nice work and the format/tone allows CC to write types of stories he probably wouldn't be able to do otherwise. I like how he tied in "current events" in some backups effectively; I mentioned the Wolvie/Sabretooth story as a fave. What I don't like as much is that I don't like CC's 1986-87 treatment of some characters. Storm and Wolvie might be my two least favorite X-Men from later in CC's first run because IMO he increasingly turned them into intolerable know-it-alls who were supposed to be much better than their teammates. So I'm not in to those portrayals. And #3, to me, shows CC's mid-80s distaste for Cyclops. He has Cyke being a jerk towards Kurt and Piotr when it seems to me the stories in 1975-77 suggests a growing friendship between Kurt and Scott.

I'm ambivalent about the inserted pages. Sometimes they make stories read more smoothly. A great example is how we actually got to see the capture of Banshee and Wolverine in CSX #6. The original 17 pages stories may have forced some abbreviated storytelling. Sometimes they add psychological depth to stories.

But I prefer if they build on the pre-existing materials rather than trying to twist them around. I'd like the original meaning to stand. I felt Jean vs. Steven Lang in #8 was remarkably like Han vs. Greedo. Jean used her TK on Lang's craft inadvertently killing him. I felt there was no need to change this. Jean took emergency action; she didn't have time to fine tune things to save Lang. I felt it was unnecessary to rehab her by having her protect Lang and have him die in an explosion after.

Also, it's a bit jarring to have an inconsistent feel to the art and scripting. And in some issues the credits don't make it clear about the inserted stuff, so I'd prefer if that were clearly stated to readers.

[Mariah]

As far as the vignettes go, I don't have a whole lot. I mainly have the original issues. the only classic stories I have are Cockrum's original run. I have all of Byrne's issues, so I am unfamiliar with them. Can someone tell me what they are about?

[Uncle Nobs]

As far as the vignettes go, I don't have a whole lot. I mainly have the original issues. the only classic stories I have are Cockrum's original run. I have all of Byrne's issues, so I am unfamiliar with them. Can someone tell me what they are about?
Claremont wrote these intimate character pieces to flesh out details of the era following Giant Size #1. They were presented as backup stories and replacement pages in the series titled "Classic X-Men"--a series launched in 1986 to reprint Uncanny starting with Giant Size #1. They have since been collected in two TPBs as "X-Men: Vignettes" volumes 1 and 2.

The Classic X-Men back-ups also dealt with a subject that was connected to the issue it was reprinting. For example, the backup story in Classic X-Men #3 was a eulogy to Thunderbird, while the issue Classic X-Men #3 was reprinting Uncanny X-Men #95, in which Thunderbird dies.

When people refer to "Classic X-Men", they are (or should be, for clarity's sake) referring specifically to this series, not to bygone issues of Uncanny that are considered classics.

Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0785108122/sr=8-1/qid=1156370597/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-9274813-3211259?ie=UTF8

Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0785117288/sr=8-2/qid=1156370644/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-9274813-3211259?ie=UTF8

EDIT: Big thanks to Fishtaco for making this more thorough. :D

[fishtaco]

The Classic X-Men back-ups also dealt with a subject that was connected to the issue it was reprinting. For example, the backup story in Classic X-Men #3 was a eulogy to Thunderbird, while the issue Classic X-Men #3 was reprinting Uncanny X-Men #95, in which Thunderbird dies.

[spoon_jenkins]

(Forgive me for being repetitive.)

For those of you who couldn't participate this time, keep in mind that we will return to core canon every other month. So you have plenty of time to catch up if you like.

I'd still like to hear anyone's choices for our other future assignments--the more obscure or misunderstood stuff.
For folks that have trouble finding runs of Classic X-Men at their LCS, note that major online retailers like Mile High and mycomicshop.com tend to have most of the issues for 1 or 2 bucks each if you don't mind less than NM condition. So folks could try to pick that up for when we return to core in October.

But my understanding was that the Classic backups were a "complimentary" assignment. I think if it's easier for some folks to get the Essentials, then it would better to have a lot of people just participating on the original stories. Why hold off from participating just because you can't get the backup stories?

Uncle Nobs, for the next assignment my top choice would be early X-Factor. It's been Essentialized, so hopefully newer fans could pick it up.

Because Wolverine has been Essentialized as well, that would be a possibility. That could be teamed with the original Wolverine mini (which is in TPB form) as a complimentary assignment.

[Uncle Nobs]

But my understanding was that the Classic backups were a "complimentary" assignment. I think if it's easier for some folks to get the Essentials, then it would better to have a lot of people just participating on the original stories. Why hold off from participating just because you can't get the backup stories?
Sorry to disagree, Spoon, especially when you're doing such a good job of keeping the party going.

Throughout this thread, I've said this many times:

The whole idea of this thread is to discover or reexamine past work. That means if you're participating, do not think of any part as optional. If you're participating, you're truly diving in and exposing yourself to a piece or a run in its entirety.

How many runs have we not had the chance to read? How many runs have we read and dismissed? How many have we skimmed without really absorbing? How many seemed like a bad idea at the time, but are better than expected upon rereading?

This is about exposing yourself to something new. Diving in.

Of course, if you decide to participate in half the assignment, I'm still glad to have you here. But please keep in mind that you are not experiencing the core concept here. It's a chance to discover or rediscover all kinds of new material.

Uncle Nobs, for the next assignment my top choice would be early X-Factor. It's been Essentialized, so hopefully newer fans could pick it up.

Because Wolverine has been Essentialized as well, that would be a possibility. That could be teamed with the original Wolverine mini (which is in TPB form) as a complimentary assignment.
Noted, good sir. :)

I was thinking more obscure or overlooked, but it depends on everyone's feedback. Novaya suggested Dazzler, which I have to admit I've never read. There are all kinds of lesser-known titles. What about the Muties, Brotherhood, Hellfire Club, or Morlocks miniseries? How many people have actually read Magik, Magik II, or Longshot? I've always been told Alpha Flight is excellent.

Do we want to wait on semi-core titles like New Mutants vol. 1, X-Factor vol. 1, and Excalibur vol. 1 until we catch up to that point in Uncanny?

These are random suggestions. Some I've read, some I haven't. Take a look here for more ideas: http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/

[Mariah]

To be honest, I didn't really care for the back up stories, I did like the Storm and Jean one, but the others we're just eh, alright, I guess. Coulda done w/o them.

[Uncle Nobs]

To be honest, I didn't really care for the back up stories, I did like the Storm and Jean one, but the others we're just eh, alright, I guess. Coulda done w/o them.
Oof! Not even the one from their first night?

[Mariah]

Oof! Not even the one from their first night?
Where Iceman was a jerk to Thunderbird? It was alright, I loved how Warren over-reacted to Jean and Logan. Okay, so you got me. Darn you Nobs!

[Arrjay]

Nobs told me to come check this thread out.

That is why I am here.

[spoon_jenkins]

Sorry to disagree, Spoon, especially when you're doing such a good job of keeping the party going.

Throughout this thread, I've said this many times:

The whole idea of this thread is to discover or reexamine past work. That means if you're participating, do not think of any part as optional. If you're participating, you're truly diving in and exposing yourself to a piece or a run in its entirety.
Okay. I mistook complimentary to be optional, so that's why I had suggested folks find it in any form.

I was thinking more obscure or overlooked, but it depends on everyone's feedback. Novaya suggested Dazzler, which I have to admit I've never read. There are all kinds of lesser-known titles. What about the Muties, Brotherhood, Hellfire Club, or Morlocks miniseries? How many people have actually read Magik, Magik II, or Longshot? I've always been told Alpha Flight is excellent.
Magik is a pretty good IMO. I like the Byrne run (first 28 issues) of Alpha Flight. I don't think it's been reprinted but the original issues are pretty cheap.

[xakko]

I really want everyone to consider this point:

As true as it is to say that Claremont wrote his Classic backup stories (Vignettes) to suit the direction of the title in 1986-87, it is just as true to say that he was exploring and recreating the hidden potential that was always there.

It's only natural for a writer to discover the hidden potential of his own completed work in hindsight. There is always subtext that a writer either cannot find a way to explore at the time or discovers later that he had subconsciously layered into his work.
I would still argue that there was no "hidden potential" for a romance between Logan and Jean in GS #1 or Uncanny #94, any more than there was between Jean and any other character (aside from Scott, of course.) Hell, given CC's apparent fetishes, that back up story could've been Jean and Ororo.

I get that he was plugging a Jean-Logan romance. But it would be 6 issues before Logan showed affection for Jean (unless you count the scene on the station where he tore her dress).

Anyway, that was probably the only real letdown of the backup stories for me (except Hope, which was fairly cheesy) so far.

[spoon_jenkins]

I think Claremont used a pretty good mix of old and new stuff when he started on X-Men. He brought back old favorites like the Sentinels, Magneto, and Juggernaut. But he also introduced the Shi'ar, Black Tom Cassidy (who I think was a brilliant complement to Juggs), and the N'Garai. And it seems like he included obscure stuff as a hat tip to fans of the silver age run. For example, having Shi'ar agent Davan Shakari assume the Erik the Red identity. And did folks notice the reference from Judge Chalmers (of the Thomas/Adams Sentinel arc) in the UXM #99 news report.

Anybody got any favorite covers - either from the original covers, the new Classic covers, or the Classic back covers?

[xakko]

I think Claremont used a pretty good mix of old and new stuff when he started on X-Men. He brought back old favorites like the Sentinels, Magneto, and Juggernaut. But he also introduced the Shi'ar, Black Tom Cassidy (who I think was a brilliant complement to Juggs), and the N'Garai. And it seems like he included obscure stuff as a hat tip to fans of the silver age run. For example, having Shi'ar agent Davan Shakari assume the Erik the Red identity. And did folks notice the reference from Judge Chalmers (of the Thomas/Adams Sentinel arc) in the UXM #99 news report.

Anybody got any favorite covers - either from the original covers, the new Classic covers, or the Classic back covers?
One of the things I love about Dan Slott is his use of old Marvel continuity in new ways, and at times it looks like he borrowed that trick from Claremont.

These early issues are replete with references to the original 5, bridging the past to the new future Chris was creating. From reusing characters like Count Nefaria and Eric the Red to revisiting locations like the Savage Land, he really kept the spirit of the book alive while taking it to greater heights.

[Uncle Nobs]

Okay. I mistook complimentary to be optional, so that's why I had suggested folks find it in any form.
Aa~ahhhhh! It sounds like I was the one who misunderstood. "Complimentary" is indeed a misleading term in that context. I'm wif ya now.

Magik is a pretty good IMO. I like the Byrne run (first 28 issues) of Alpha Flight. I don't think it's been reprinted but the original issues are pretty cheap.
I remember Magik being good, but it's been at least 10 years since I read it.

Isn't that weird about Alpha Flight having no reprints? Many people consider it a landmark series. I'm actually embarrassed that I've never read it.

[Uncle Nobs]

I would still argue that there was no "hidden potential" for a romance between Logan and Jean in GS #1 or Uncanny #94, any more than there was between Jean and any other character (aside from Scott, of course.)
I'm confused. I'm honestly not sure I'm hearing you right. :confused:

Are you saying that since Logan displayed no affection for Jean in GS #1 that the newly-added backup story attached to GS #1 should therefore not include such a theme?

If that's what you're saying: Since Logan's affections for Jean are very clearly established just a few issues later and continue consistently throughout the entirety of Uncanny, why shouldn't Claremont imagine that the attraction and instinctive bond started the very first night they met? That seems so natural to me.

If that's NOT what you're saying: Well, whaddaya mean? :D

[Uncle Nobs]

The Classic X-Men back-ups also dealt with a subject that was connected to the issue it was reprinting. For example, the backup story in Classic X-Men #3 was a eulogy to Thunderbird, while the issue Classic X-Men #3 was reprinting Uncanny X-Men #95, in which Thunderbird dies.
ACK! I was trying so hard to be thorough!

If you don't mind, I'm going to edit your blurb into my post so that it can be used as an easy link for anyone confused. Thanks, Fishy! :D :D

[Uncle Nobs]

I think Claremont used a pretty good mix of old and new stuff when he started on X-Men. He brought back old favorites like the Sentinels, Magneto, and Juggernaut. But he also introduced the Shi'ar, Black Tom Cassidy (who I think was a brilliant complement to Juggs), and the N'Garai. And it seems like he included obscure stuff as a hat tip to fans of the silver age run. For example, having Shi'ar agent Davan Shakari assume the Erik the Red identity. And did folks notice the reference from Judge Chalmers (of the Thomas/Adams Sentinel arc) in the UXM #99 news report.
Have I mentioned how friggin' stoked I am that you're playing here? :D :D :D :D

Anybody got any favorite covers - either from the original covers, the new Classic covers, or the Classic back covers?
Art Adams' cover to Classic X-Men #1 might be my all-time favorite. I wanna figure out some other favorites, but I have to take a look. Poke me if I forget.

[Indigo Al]

My apologies for joining this discussion late....

What leaps out at me from all those issues and the Classic backups is .... what else ? sex!

Sometimes it was subtly expressed (Jean's "reactions" to Logan; the Halloween party - a story I found very sexy).

And sometimes not (Colossus's menage with the righteously-mohawked Fall babes; Storm walking around naked; Lilandra talking about "lovers she's had, just to sate a physical need").

And now I love picking out 70's Manhattan culture in the background of those stories, especially Wolverine's game of tag with Sabretooth. What WAS wolvie doing in Times Square apart from drinking, hmmm?

[Uncle Nobs]

My apologies for joining this discussion late....

What leaps out at me from all those issues and the Classic backups is .... what else ? sex!

Sometimes it was subtly expressed (Jean's "reactions" to Logan; the Halloween party - a story I found very sexy).

And sometimes not (Colossus's menage with the righteously-mohawked Fall babes; Storm walking around naked; Lilandra talking about "lovers she's had, just to sate a physical need").

And now I love picking out 70's Manhattan culture in the background of those stories, especially Wolverine's game of tag with Sabretooth. What WAS wolvie doing in Times Square apart from drinking, hmmm?
HA! So true!! :D :D

[MakeMineMarvel]

Just discovered this thread. I would definitely like to partake in the next round.
Now, just to add my two cents in. I absolutely LOVE the Art Adams cover to Classic X-Men #1....brilliant!! I also enjoyed the "first night" story even if it did portray Iceman as a major a-hole.

[spoon_jenkins]

Just discovered this thread. I would definitely like to partake in the next round.
Now, just to add my two cents in. I absolutely LOVE the Art Adams cover to Classic X-Men #1....brilliant!! I also enjoyed the "first night" story even if it did portray Iceman as a major a-hole.
If you (or any other latecomers) have Classic #1-13 handy to read and want to comment on this round, I'd love to hear your thoughts. :D The first round discussion hasn't ended yet. There's still time! Spread the word.

[xakko]

I'm confused. I'm honestly not sure I'm hearing you right. :confused:

Are you saying that since Logan displayed no affection for Jean in GS #1 that the newly-added backup story attached to GS #1 should therefore not include such a theme?

If that's what you're saying: Since Logan's affections for Jean are very clearly established just a few issues later and continue consistently throughout the entirety of Uncanny, why shouldn't Claremont imagine that the attraction and instinctive bond started the very first night they met? That seems so natural to me.

If that's NOT what you're saying: Well, whaddaya mean? :D
you stated that "it is just as true to say that he was exploring and recreating the hidden potential that was always there"... but I am arguing that there was NO hidden potential there... I don't think there was any positive words from Jean to Logan until #110, and none at all indicating more than that through the rest of her "life"... and besides, that was Phoenix, not Jean.

Quick thought- what if Jean loved Scott, and Logan loved Phoenix... now there'd be an odd love quadrangle.

if CC had decided to have, say, Kurt be the other man in Jean's life, well, he could've done it just as well. (No, it wouldn't work for Petey, too noble to fall in love with another man's girlfriend)

[fishtaco]

My apologies for joining this discussion late....

What leaps out at me from all those issues and the Classic backups is .... what else ? sex!

Sometimes it was subtly expressed (Jean's "reactions" to Logan; the Halloween party - a story I found very sexy).

And sometimes not (Colossus's menage with the righteously-mohawked Fall babes; Storm walking around naked; Lilandra talking about "lovers she's had, just to sate a physical need").

And now I love picking out 70's Manhattan culture in the background of those stories, especially Wolverine's game of tag with Sabretooth. What WAS wolvie doing in Times Square apart from drinking, hmmm?I should have noticed this a long time ago. I wonder if it was all done on purpose.

[Brian M.]

I should have noticed this a long time ago. I wonder if it was all done on purpose.

It was done by Claremont on purpose. Those stories are analogies of his own personal life in NY during those times. Hot sex orgies that he would part take in.

[Hi-Fi]

(No, it wouldn't work for Petey, too noble to fall in love with another man's girlfriend)

Er...he fell in love with Zsaji, who was with the Human Torch, and with Rogue, who was with Gambit.

I don't think we can chose who we fall in love with.

I think it's time for you to put Pete out of the pedestal and realize he's as human as everybody else. I mean, if he was THAT noble, he wouldn't cheat on Kitty as he did.



Sorry for the interruption, guys. I just think that xakko is easily blaiming Logan's "badass" side for having him fall in love with another man's girlfriend, when that could happen to everyone.

[Hi-Fi]

If that sounded rude, it wasn't my intention, xakko. Just putting a diferent opinion, it's all. ;)

[xakko]

Er...he fell in love with Zsaji, who was with the Human Torch, and with Rogue, who was with Gambit.

I don't think we can chose who we fall in love with.

I think it's time for you to put Pete out of the pedestal and realize he's as human as everybody else. I mean, if he was THAT noble, he wouldn't cheat on Kitty as he did.

Sorry for the interruption, guys. I just think that xakko is easily blaiming Logan's "badass" side for having him fall in love with another man's girlfriend, when that could happen to everyone.
If we are going to count the complete crapfest of that plotline. it should be noticed that he never pursued Zsaji while she was "with" Johnny. And there was evidence that it was a side effect of her empathic healing power.

The Jim Shooter mandated breakup was terribly out of character for Piotr, as evidenced by him being completely obsessed with how miserable he was being apart from Kitty right up until the point that it was all about Zsaji. Horrible, horrible writing.

Rogue basically stated she wasn't with Gambit in X-Men #100. He'd left to be in the Thieve's Guild, and she knew he'd have to take sides, and that they would have to suffer the consequences. And it was a touch, and a kiss. Nothing more. Rogue ALWAYS seems to kiss someone when her powers aren't active

And I challenge you to consider the statement "An' what Wolverine wants- he gets" as ANYTHING but his "badass" side. Said, you'll note, when Jean hadn't expressed any interest to him.

Being noble is supposedly one of Piotr's character traits. It is also one that I rather admire.

And yes, people sometimes have attractions to people in relationships. To actively pursue someone in a committed relationship- especially one in a marriage- that's pretty scummy, at least in my book.

[Hi-Fi]

If we are going to count the complete crapfest of that plotline. it should be noticed that he never pursued Zsaji while she was "with" Johnny. And there was evidence that it was a side effect of her empathic healing power.

The Jim Shooter mandated breakup was terribly out of character for Piotr, as evidenced by him being completely obsessed with how miserable he was being apart from Kitty right up until the point that it was all about Zsaji. Horrible, horrible writing.

You can blame the horrible writing as much as you want, but sadly it's canon. Pete did cheat on Kitty with a girl he barely knew.


Being noble is supposedly one of Piotr's character traits. It is also one that I rather admire.

As do I, but Pete isn't flawless. No one is.;)



And yes, people sometimes have attractions to people in relationships. To actively pursue someone in a committed relationship- especially one in a marriage- that's pretty scummy, at least in my book.

I totally agree, but let me note to you that you said that Pete could never fall in love with another man's girlfriend. I say he could. I don't think he would act on it, though.

[xakko]

You can blame the horrible writing as much as you want, but sadly it's canon. Pete did cheat on Kitty with a girl he barely knew.
that's why it makes sense only if it were a side effect of her power. there's no other explanation. given that the only other man she was shown healing also fell for her, it's also not a bad theory.

I totally agree, but let me note to you that you said that Pete could never fall in love with another man's girlfriend. I say he could. I don't think he would act on it, though.
i don't believe in love at first sight. to be "in love" with Jean, Piotr would have to get to know her better, in a manner that his character would feel is inappropriate. Note that he was upset with Johnny for his treatment of Zsaji, but wasn't actively pursuing her. It's a matter of semantics, but an important one, I think.

and if you want to challenge me on my opinion of Colossus, that's fine, but it doesn't change my original point about Wolverine. At the time of early X-men, Colossus was the apotheosis of Petey Pureheart, and the character at that time would not have been a candidate for CC to write a pseudo-adulterous role. I selected Nightcrawler as an example because his roguish nature would at the very least flirt with another man's girlfriend, even in jest, and that could easily develop into more, as it later did with Meggan. The other person I didn't mention was Banshee, and he was in a romance with Moira at the time, and I personally can't see him with Jean

(Please note that Piotr NEVER expressed feelings more than friendship for Meggan.)

[fishtaco]

The other person I didn't mention was Banshee, and he was in a romance with Moira at the time, and I personally can't see him with JeanI can, because of Uncanny X-Men #262. Not that I want it to actually happen, or anything. :p

Any thoughts on Classic X-Men #7?

[Mariah]

(Please note that Piotr NEVER expressed feelings more than friendship for Meggan.)
You don't always have to express vocally, but you could tell by the way he looked at her, just before their wedding that he truly cared for Meggan, even when he rejoined the X-Men, he and storm we're about to have a convo about it.

Plus, Petey is your average male, he bedded 2 women at once when the new team went to the Savage land for the first time. He even has a son out there.

[xakko]

You don't always have to express vocally, but you could tell by the way he looked at her, just before their wedding that he truly cared for Meggan, even when he rejoined the X-Men, he and storm we're about to have a convo about it.

again, i read that scene differently. in his dialogue with Kitty, he thought he had lost both Brian and Meggan as friends (to which Kitty replied that he still had her). friendship is highly important to Piotr. when Meggan accused Piotr of having feelings for her, he began to avoid her, so as not to be a negative influence on her relationship with the missing Brian. not to mention that it was later revealed that the feelings were Meggan's, not Piotr's. And that when Piotr "confessed" to Brian that he "loved" Meggan, Brian knew immediately that he was lying, and Meggan confirmed this when they talked about it.

Plus, Petey is your average male, he bedded 2 women at once when the new team went to the Savage land for the first time. He even has a son out there.

yes, he even tried to refuse the threesome, as "their ways" were not his. his participation in that ritual began, at least, out of a sense of politeness; he certainly didn't seem comfortable with it. and while he knew that the purpose of the act was procreation, to replace the one who had been lost, he was also told in no uncertain terms that his participation in raising the child would not be necessary, as it was the responsibility of the village.

moreover, it does make you wonder if he doesn't know about Peter Jr. during their visit to the Savage Land, the X-men were under Storm's plan omega, which kept them from their loved ones, which was as hard for Piotr as anyone, still having family alive (including Illyana). the dialogue during the annual is strage, when he asks Nereel about the father, and if he returned. "then he would be welcomed" was his reply. knowing that his position on the X-men at the time did not allow for relationships, knowing that she was deliberately not telling him he was the father and thus imposing the duty of fatherhood on him, and remembering that the village was responsible for the raising of the child, i wonder if it could be Colossus was "playing along". Since CC never got to have them interact again- it wasn't long after that when he became "Peter Nicholas", and then the Muir Island saga and CC departed.

Just something to think about.

Any thoughts on Classic X-Men #7?
the backup or the main story? the main story shows the regard Piotr felt for Ororo, which was eventually developed into a more familial relationship.

The backup fleshed out the Hellfire Club fairly nicely. I think Shaw comes across better than Emma.

[fishtaco]

the backup or the main story? the main story shows the regard Piotr felt for Ororo, which was eventually developed into a more familial relationship.

The backup fleshed out the Hellfire Club fairly nicely. I think Shaw comes across better than Emma.I meant the backup. Great stuff with Sebastian and Emma.

[Indigo Al]

yes, he even tried to refuse the threesome, as "their ways" were not his. his participation in that ritual began, at least, out of a sense of politeness; he certainly didn't seem comfortable with it.


Hmmm, I wonder if he consulted Emily Post before he made his decision?

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

Are we still discussing the first assignment? When will the 2nd one start?

[Uncle Nobs]

you stated that "it is just as true to say that he was exploring and recreating the hidden potential that was always there"... but I am arguing that there was NO hidden potential there... I don't think there was any positive words from Jean to Logan until #110, and none at all indicating more than that through the rest of her "life"... and besides, that was Phoenix, not Jean.

Quick thought- what if Jean loved Scott, and Logan loved Phoenix... now there'd be an odd love quadrangle.

if CC had decided to have, say, Kurt be the other man in Jean's life, well, he could've done it just as well. (No, it wouldn't work for Petey, too noble to fall in love with another man's girlfriend)
Sorry Joby, but Jean was Phoenix. Claremont established it 20 years ago in Classic X-Men #8.

To create the woman known as Phoenix, the Phoenix Force split Jean's soul in two. One half went in the cocoon in Jamaica Bay. One half lived its life as Phoenix/Dark Phoenix. (Then when that half died on the moon, it entered the inanimate body of Madelyne Pryor, making her truly Jean, too.)

So when I suggest that Claremont was exploring the hidden potential of Logan's love for Jean, I am speaking of the potential that was demonstrated throughout the entirety of Uncanny, starting with #110. After that, it's just a matter of figuring out when and where the seeds of this potential lay. For me, revealing an initial attraction from the night they met seems a very natural place to start.

[Uncle Nobs]

Are we still discussing the first assignment? When will the 2nd one start?
Yes, we are still discussing the first assignment.

At the beginning of each month, a new assignment is created. Participants have roughly 3 weeks to gather the reading material and read it. We discuss the material for 1 week before a new assignment is created. If we choose to continue the discussion after that initial week, so be it. :)

Any more thoughts on our next assignment, anyone?

[fishtaco]

The one thing that bothered me about these issues (the Uncanny ones, at any rate) is how all of the X-Men wouldn't stop arguing, fighting, and bickering over the most ridiculous things possible. Kurt and Peter fighting over Ororo, Logan criticizing what Sean was wearing for dinner, Logan antagonizing Scott while their ship was falling out of the sky, Logan and Charles arguing over going on a vacation, Charles and Scott arguing over where Scott should go (and Xavier calling him a "cur"), Bobby and Logan arguing about nothing, Peter always getting mad at Logan for calling Ororo a broad...it all got old fast.

[spoon_jenkins]

The one thing that bothered me about these issues (the Uncanny ones, at any rate) is how all of the X-Men wouldn't stop arguing, fighting, and bickering over the most ridiculous things possible. Kurt and Peter fighting over Ororo, Logan criticizing what Sean was wearing for dinner, Logan antagonizing Scott while their ship was falling out of the sky, Logan and Charles arguing over going on a vacation, Charles and Scott arguing over where Scott should go (and Xavier calling him a "cur"), Bobby and Logan arguing about nothing, Peter always getting mad at Logan for calling Ororo a broad...it all got old fast.
Yeah, there was quite a bit of arguing. I thought to myself that this may have been the closest the team dynamic in Claremont's first run ever was to the team dynamic under Austen. :eek: Of course, it's understandable that there would be friction before they developed friendships. For the most part the arguments weren't pervasive enough to be annoying to me. I think they often made sense, especially considering how much of a misanthrope Logan used to be.

[fishtaco]

Yeah, there was quite a bit of arguing. I thought to myself that this may have been the closest the team dynamic in Claremont's first run ever was to the team dynamic under Austen. :eek: Of course, it's understandable that there would be friction before they developed friendships. For the most part the arguments weren't pervasive enough to be annoying to me. I think they often made sense, especially considering how much of a misanthrope Logan used to be.The ones involving Logan bothered me no less, but I was able to understand them, because he definitely was an @$$hole back then. The other ones that involved Kurt and Peter, who are supposed to be some of the nicest and friendliest members of the X-Men just made my head hurt. What John Byrne ever saw in Wolverine back then to want to keep him as a one-dimensional animal-berserker lunatic, I'll never know.

[Affinity]

Ooh! Ooh! I got my hands on the Classic X-Men issues and I already had the Uncannys. Wait for me!

[Affinity]

Well, here's some thoughts on Giant Size, more questions, though.

GIANT SIZE X-MEN #1
Kurt is wearing his uniform when we first see him---where’d he get it? I guess the circus, but wow. I didn’t realize he had it before his time with the X-Men.

I assume that’s the Alpha Flight (or is it Department H? K?) place that we first meet Logan at. The man there mentions that they invested a lot of money on Logan---what does that mean? Like, Weapon X?

Banshee was found in Tennessee? That’s strange.

Blue eyes, nice, Stormy. I remember hearing something about Storm having “cat eyes”? What’s that all about?

Was Sunfire around before GSX #1? The words make it seem like he was. Clarification?

LOL! Colossus: “But if I possess such POWER as you say---does it not belong to the STATE?”

Reading this story is a little hard. To think…the 1.5 Team has just been murdered and left behind, and no one but Xavier knows? To see him recruiting more people is painful…the bastard makeover is harsh.

Lol, VTOL jets.

Wait, how come Lorna and Alex weren’t in the “what really happened” sequence in the recent Deadly Genesis? I don’t remember seeing them at all. (Again, I’m typing this as I go through, so I might be answered later in the issue.)

The rocks attacking Storm and Colossus---is that supposed to be Petra?

Interesting enough of an issue. I’ll have to read Deadly Genesis again to see how it all fits. (This was my first time reading GSX #1!!)

[fishtaco]

Well, here's some thoughts on Giant Size, more questions, though.

GIANT SIZE X-MEN #1
Kurt is wearing his uniform when we first see him---where’d he get it? I guess the circus, but wow. I didn’t realize he had it before his time with the X-Men.Excalibur (1st Series) # -1 explains that yes, it was his circus costume. When Amanda Sefton was in the circus with him, she wore a similar costume.
http://uncannyxmen.net/images/costume/amanda-bigcostume1.jpg

Blue eyes, nice, Stormy. I remember hearing something about Storm having “cat eyes”? What’s that all about?From my journal of abandoned X-Men stories from classic writers...
Dave Cockrum explained the original designs and notes for Storm in an interview. He said,

“The original black female in the group was to have been called The Black Cat. She had Storm's costume but without the cape, and a cat-like haircut with tufts for ears. Her power was that she could turn into a humanoid cat or a tabby. She wore a collar with a bell on it. When we came back to the project, after the hiatus, all of a sudden all of these other female cat characters had sprung up—Tigra, The Cat, Pantha—so I figured that we'd better overhaul this one! She wound up getting white hair, the cape, and becoming Storm.”I added this one yesterday, actually.

Was Sunfire around before GSX #1? The words make it seem like he was. Clarification?Yes. Sunfire made his debut in X-Men (1st Series) #'s 64-66, by Roy Thomas and Neal Adams.

LOL! Colossus: “But if I possess such POWER as you say---does it not belong to the STATE?”Yup. Piotr was still a bit of a Communist back then.

Reading this story is a little hard. To think…the 1.5 Team has just been murdered and left behind, and no one but Xavier knows? To see him recruiting more people is painful…the bastard makeover is harsh.

Wait, how come Lorna and Alex weren’t in the “what really happened” sequence in the recent Deadly Genesis? I don’t remember seeing them at all. (Again, I’m typing this as I go through, so I might be answered later in the issue.)

The rocks attacking Storm and Colossus---is that supposed to be Petra?Let's keep this about UXM 94-105, CXM 1-13, yes? ;) p

Interesting enough of an issue. I’ll have to read Deadly Genesis again to see how it all fits. (This was my first time reading GSX #1!!)It doesn't.

[Affinity]

Cool on Storm...very interesting to imagine what COULD have been. Do consider opening a thread with more of these lost ideas, hmm?

Thank you!

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

Yes, we are still discussing the first assignment.

At the beginning of each month, a new assignment is created. Participants have roughly 3 weeks to gather the reading material and read it. We discuss the material for 1 week before a new assignment is created. If we choose to continue the discussion after that initial week, so be it. :)

Any more thoughts on our next assignment, anyone?

Well since we read something clasic, what about reading something farilly new, like new xmen 1-12 ( xmen academy :D)

[xakko]

Sorry Joby, but Jean was Phoenix. Claremont established it 20 years ago in Classic X-Men #8.

To create the woman known as Phoenix, the Phoenix Force split Jean's soul in two. One half went in the cocoon in Jamaica Bay. One half lived its life as Phoenix/Dark Phoenix. (Then when that half died on the moon, it entered the inanimate body of Madelyne Pryor, making her truly Jean, too.)

So when I suggest that Claremont was exploring the hidden potential of Logan's love for Jean, I am speaking of the potential that was demonstrated throughout the entirety of Uncanny, starting with #110. After that, it's just a matter of figuring out when and where the seeds of this potential lay. For me, revealing an initial attraction from the night they met seems a very natural place to start.
see, i have to accept that theory of phoenix because of the horrible Here Comes Tomorrow and Endsong, when I preferred Alan Davis's interpretation in Excalibur.

Forgive me if the lame, overdone, hypercliched "falling for the bad boy" theme just doesn't cut it for me. I know they need drama to keep the stories coming, but it's just so damn old that it irritates me.

[spoon_jenkins]

Someone else comes to play. Cool! :D Fishy did a good job at answering your questions. I'll just add a bit.

Well, here's some thoughts on Giant Size, more questions, though.

I assume that’s the Alpha Flight (or is it Department H? K?) place that we first meet Logan at. The man there mentions that they invested a lot of money on Logan---what does that mean? Like, Weapon X?
That would be Department H, although I don't think that name had been thought up yet. At the time, Len Wein probably just meant they invested money in him for training, but later I think it was revealed that they spent quite a bit on psychological treatment as well. They're probably not referring to the adamantium because Logan didn't know who did that at this point.

Banshee was found in Tennessee? That’s strange.
Yeah, funky. I guess just an attempt to be offbeat and an aspect (country music fan) to his personality. Banshee operated in the U.S., so it wouldn't be strange to find him in the U.S. rather than Ireland.

Was Sunfire around before GSX #1? The words make it seem like he was. Clarification?
Yes, he first appeared in UXM #64 by Roy Thomas and Don Heck (not #64-66 as stated by fishtaco). He also had a handful of appearances in other titles like Sub-Mariner and Iron Man before he appeared again in GSX #1.

The rocks attacking Storm and Colossus---is that supposed to be Petra?
I haven't read Deadly Genesis, but it's a retcon, so of course Wein and Cockrum didn't intend it to be Petra. She wouldn't be created until decades afterwards.

[Uncle Nobs]

The one thing that bothered me about these issues (the Uncanny ones, at any rate) is how all of the X-Men wouldn't stop arguing, fighting, and bickering over the most ridiculous things possible. Kurt and Peter fighting over Ororo, Logan criticizing what Sean was wearing for dinner, Logan antagonizing Scott while their ship was falling out of the sky, Logan and Charles arguing over going on a vacation, Charles and Scott arguing over where Scott should go (and Xavier calling him a "cur"), Bobby and Logan arguing about nothing, Peter always getting mad at Logan for calling Ororo a broad...it all got old fast.
And I loved that. It always makes me think of the full-page spread in Uncanny #94 of Cyclops driving the X-Men for weeks on end:

"...The voice of the man named Cylcops, who drives the X-Men hard and himself harder. Who takes six proud, unique individuals. Six loners. Six outcasts. ...And forges them into a team."

[Arrjay]

This thread rocks.

I have very little to contribute to it due to the fact that I am an incomparable dumbass of epic proportions but I like to read it.

That has got to count for something right?

Carry on.

[Indigo Al]

My suggestion: Let's pick a theme, and we each come up with an issue that illustrates that theme.

My theme: "The X-Men are a family, NOT a school"

[xakko]

I'd suggest some Excalibur next... it was a new beginning, had a light, weird atmosphere, and has plenty of ancillary material we could check out. Also, there were just two recent trades released. One, with Mojo Mayhem!

[Shane Shooter]

I'm still working on the Classic X-men (my library should be getting it in tomorrow) but I read giant-sized and uncanny 94-105 .... what a fun read ..... I have a couple of thoughts, questions and opinions though:

I find alot of misconceptions the CARTOON and in some cases the movie portrayed the X-men ... it just seems kinda funny at least early in these early issues they're different

Wolverine - He's not as much of a Hot-head as you would think ...not as much as THUNDERBIRD, also his relationship with JEAN so far it certainly ain't head over heels total infatuation like they show in the Cartoon and the movies ...the animosity he has for Cyclops is more about Authority issues than a Love Triangle

Nightcrawler- Apparently he has no problem Teleporting through walls in 95, something he's terrified of doing in the cartoons and the movies Also does he have some extra invulnerability I didn't know about? CROAKER said he hit him hard enough to kill 12 men but was ok ... was it the suit ? was it Nightcrawler ? or a combination of both ?

Colossus- Its Refressing to see how much they used colossus and how cool he can be to read about.

Best Line of the Assignment

After thinking he killed the demon monster:

Wolverine- I cut him to pieces without a thought. Nothing Changes Prof. I thought I'd learned to control myself, I guess I was wrong. You wanna know something funny ... I'm glad

Cyclops- you wanna know something even funnier... He's Still Alive !

Some Questions:

I thought Colossus could survive radiation/breathe in outerspace

What was Cyclops about to say to JEAN when volunteered to fly the shuttle in #100 he was about to call her a little ... something lol

How did Professor X hit a Sentinel with a mind-blast ?

What year was Giant Size X-men (Real Time) ? and when was the Classic X-men written?

Did they explain why Banshee is thought of as being a Crook ?

Is it just a coincidence that the 2 girls during the christmas issue that KURT and Collossus see are named BETSY and AMANDA ? they're not Betsy Braddock and Amanda Sefton are they?

Did they explain why JEAN came back ?

[spoon_jenkins]

Some Questions:

How did Professor X hit a Sentinel with a mind-blast ?
Way back during the first Sentinel arc (1965) it was shown (without much explanation) that Prof. X's mental powers affected the Sentinels. I guess the theory could be that their computer minds somehow resemble human minds. I think this has been de-emphasized over time.

What year was Giant Size X-men (Real Time) ? and when was the Classic X-men written?
Giant Size was published in 1975. Since Uncanny was only bi-monthly at the time, #94-105 were published in 1975-77. The first 13 issues of Classic were published in 1986-87 (the same time as Uncanny #209-221, more or less).

Did they explain why Banshee is thought of as being a Crook ?
Banshee first appeared in the 1960s as a villain, but he was being mind-controlled.

Is it just a coincidence that the 2 girls during the christmas issue that KURT and Collossus see are named BETSY and AMANDA ? they're not Betsy Braddock and Amanda Sefton are they?
Amanda is indeed Amanda Sefton. Betsy was just a minor character who didn't show up much afterwards. I think her last name was Wilford.

Betsy Braddock was created by Claremont for the Captain Britain comic over in England in the 1970s, but she didn't appear in American comics until around 1986.

Did they explain why JEAN came back ?
Originally, there wasn't much explanation. I think it was something like force of will combined with her mental powers somehow. Years later, leading up to X-Factor, there was a new explanation of Phoenix as a separate entity. One of the Classic backup stories explains it pretty well.

[Shane Shooter]

Originally, there wasn't much explanation. I think it was something like force of will combined with her mental powers somehow. Years later, leading up to X-Factor, there was a new explanation of Phoenix as a separate entity. One of the Classic backup stories explains it pretty well.

Thanks Mayn ! that was exceedingly helpful ....... I'm enjoying it alot better now .......

This Question though I was asking WHY she came back before all the Phoenix stuff ..... cause she left the X-men in 94/95 and all of a sudden she was just back ! w'sup with that

[Affinity]

Just wanted to say that Storm's claustrophobia in the Juggernaut/Black Tom issues? That stuff was hardcore.

[Novaya Havoc]

Any more thoughts on our next assignment, anyone?

Dazzler, nobby. I so vote Dazzler. It would make for interesting convo and to have people actually read it.

</bias>

[spoon_jenkins]

This Question though I was asking WHY she came back before all the Phoenix stuff ..... cause she left the X-men in 94/95 and all of a sudden she was just back ! w'sup with that
Okay, I misunderstood. That might have been due to the change in writer. Although Claremont scripted 94-95, those issues (along with GSX) were plotted by Wein. Maybe Wein was planning to have Jean leave the book permanently. So then CC was quickly undoing what was done.

Anyway, I've read an interview with Claremont where he said if he had it to do over again he would have written it differently. He intended readers to know that Jean and Scott were seeing each other regularly, but it may have seemed like 94 was some big goodbye.

Since Jean, Lorna, and Alex, (unlike Iceman and Angel who were in the Champions) were all still available, I guess CC wanted to use them.

[Uncle Nobs]

see, i have to accept that theory of phoenix because of the horrible Here Comes Tomorrow and Endsong, when I preferred Alan Davis's interpretation in Excalibur.

Forgive me if the lame, overdone, hypercliched "falling for the bad boy" theme just doesn't cut it for me. I know they need drama to keep the stories coming, but it's just so damn old that it irritates me.
You bring up Morrison and Pak, but I'm saying Claremont already established it 20 years ago in Classic. The idea that Morrison created the "Jean = Phoenix" theory is a common misconception.

[Uncle Nobs]

Dazzler, nobby. I so vote Dazzler. It would make for interesting convo and to have people actually read it.

</bias>
I'm very tempted. In fact, it's one of my top choices right now.

My only concern is that it's hard to collect, since no reprints are available. This early in this project, I'd hate to lose people due to frustrations over getting the reading material.

I think I'll have to wait until this thing has built up some more momentum. Sorry, Ben. I'm actually very eager to read it, myself.

[Uncle Nobs]

Wolverine - He's not as much of a Hot-head as you would think ...not as much as THUNDERBIRD, also his relationship with JEAN so far it certainly ain't head over heels total infatuation like they show in the Cartoon and the movies ...the animosity he has for Cyclops is more about Authority issues than a Love Triangle
It's true. Both Logan's berzerker side and his love for Jean were developed very slowly over the years. Her death is what really brought out his feelings more than anything (if I recall correctly).

Nightcrawler- Apparently he has no problem Teleporting through walls in 95, something he's terrified of doing in the cartoons and the movies Also does he have some extra invulnerability I didn't know about? CROAKER said he hit him hard enough to kill 12 men but was ok ... was it the suit ? was it Nightcrawler ? or a combination of both ?
I was going to mention this, too! It seems he was written with superhuman strength. Even in his first appearance, he jumps several stories in one leap. I've never thought of Kurt as having superhuman strength, but I can certainly see it here. Can anyone provide more info?

I thought Colossus could survive radiation/breathe in outerspace
Maybe. I don't know. But it makes sense for him to be freaked out, not knowing if he can survive or not.

How did Professor X hit a Sentinel with a mind-blast ?
As Spoon Jenkins explained, his telepathy somehow affected their computer brains. This makes a little more sense if you consider how advanced Sentinels supposedly were, but not much. They were capable of mutating and developing independent thought, as demonstrated a few times over the years. Again, it's not much more logical, but maybe a little. :rolleyes:

[Uncle Nobs]

see, i have to accept that theory of phoenix because of the horrible Here Comes Tomorrow and Endsong, when I preferred Alan Davis's interpretation in Excalibur.

Forgive me if the lame, overdone, hypercliched "falling for the bad boy" theme just doesn't cut it for me. I know they need drama to keep the stories coming, but it's just so damn old that it irritates me.
I also think it has very little to do with "falling for the bad boy". To me, it has more to do with Jean fighting her uncontrollable passions, which absolutely defines her character.

To that end, Logan is the perfect foil, just as she is the perfect foil for his characterization as a man who doesn't deserve someone so virtuous--a theme we would see repeated with Mariko.

[Uncle Nobs]

Lol, VTOL jets.
You are funny. Why did VTOL tickle you?

[Novaya Havoc]

I'm very tempted. In fact, it's one of my top choices right now.

My only concern is that it's hard to collect, since no reprints are available. This early in this project, I'd hate to lose people due to frustrations over getting the reading material.

I think I'll have to wait until this thing has built up some more momentum. Sorry, Ben. I'm actually very eager to read it, myself.

What if I scan them in? :o

[Uncle Nobs]

What if I scan them in? :o
HA! That's a mighty big commitment. (And a questionable one, at that.)

I think we'll get to it as an assignment. Just give it a few months.

[Affinity]

You are funny. Why did VTOL tickle you?
Haha, I don't know, it just stood out to me. I kind of like that. I must admit that these issues were fun to read. I sat down and really enjoyed them, a lot, and it's the little things like VTOL (what was it, again? Vertical Take Off and Landing?) jets that make these issues all the better.

As for the next assignment, I think continuing with the Uncanny and Classic tales is good, as I don't really go out of my way to read them AND the Classic stories are so damn interesting.

[fishtaco]

I was going to mention this, too! It seems he was written with superhuman strength. Even in his first appearance, he jumps several stories in one leap. I've never thought of Kurt as having superhuman strength, but I can certainly see it here. Can anyone provide more info?Creative differences over what other powers Kurt should have. Len wanted to add the strength, but when Chris and Dave became the creative team they wanted to give Kurt another mutant power or two, but they chose the limited invisibility instead, in @'s 102-103. In #107, Kurt learns that he can teleport others with him. There might have even been a time or two when Chris and/or Dave would change their minds about something, hence the possible inconsistencies. John Byrne comments that in Chris and Dave's first run together, they overexposed Kurt and didn't focus at all on any of the other characters. He also said that they gave Kurt new powers every issue. :rolleyes:Yes, he first appeared in UXM #64 by Roy Thomas and Don Heck (not #64-66 as stated by fishtaco). He also had a handful of appearances in other titles like Sub-Mariner and Iron Man before he appeared again in GSX #1.Oops. I'm not too good at citing the 60's issues. My mistake.

[Affinity]

I've never heard a NICE quote on Byrne's behalf. Why is he so grouchy all the time?

[Uncle Nobs]

I've never heard a NICE quote on Byrne's behalf. Why is he so grouchy all the time?
For reals, yo.

In other news: I am getting close to announcing the next assignment. Last chance for requests!

[xgeek52]

just make sure it's something i can afford or have...

[fishtaco]

Excalibur circa 1988-1989!!!!!!

[Uncle Nobs]

Excalibur circa 1988-1989!!!!!!
Hmm. Well, we're a bit Claremont-heavy as it is. For variety's sake, I think I'll pass for now (as much as I'd enjoy re-reading those).

[fishtaco]

Hmm. Well, we're a bit Claremont-heavy as it is. For variety's sake, I think I'll pass for now (as much as I'd enjoy re-reading those).Okay, then...

Excalibur circa 1992-1993!!!!! :D

[xakko]

You bring up Morrison and Pak, but I'm saying Claremont already established it 20 years ago in Classic. The idea that Morrison created the "Jean = Phoenix" theory is a common misconception.
i know Jean WAS Phoenix in Uncanny X-Men #100.

But that was retconned to bring her back in X-Factor #1. If you read Phoenix Rising, it's clear there that the Phoenix is a seperate entity, and this is further progressed in Excalibur by Alan Davis. And even in the backup in Classic X-Men #8, the Phoenix is still distinct from Jean. And even tho' it speaks with Jean's voice, the retcon made it so that the Phoenix thought it was Jean. It completely duplicated her in every respect.

The story of Feron, Necrom, Merlin and the Phoenix could be reconciled with the earlier retcon for the most part, but not with Morrison's version, which was the point that i was trying to make.

If not Excalibur, how about the PAD X-Factor?

[xakko]

I was going to mention this, too! It seems he was written with superhuman strength. Even in his first appearance, he jumps several stories in one leap. I've never thought of Kurt as having superhuman strength, but I can certainly see it here. Can anyone provide more info?
i think he was shown having slightly advanced strength back then. As for Croaker's hit, I took that to be as much due to his incredibly strong and flexible spine, which absorbed the impact, as well as an acrobat's conditioning


Maybe. I don't know. But it makes sense for him to be freaked out, not knowing if he can survive or not.
i don't think they had the powersets down for any of them at that point. we've heard the "Colossus turns human when he's rendered unconscious" how many times? and yet he is kayoed several times in these issues and remains in armored form. there are times when Claremont writes Cyke's power beam as giving off heat.

As Spoon Jenkins explained, his telepathy somehow affected their computer brains. This makes a little more sense if you consider how advanced Sentinels supposedly were, but not much. They were capable of mutating and developing independent thought, as demonstrated a few times over the years. Again, it's not much more logical, but maybe a little. :rolleyes:
i'll take a stab at a no-prize on this one. is this before or after Magneto messed up the magnetosphere to screw with Chuck's telepathy? we would see Xavier and Emma talk to people around the world, but that stunt isn't possible later.

[Novaya Havoc]

I've never heard a NICE quote on Byrne's behalf. Why is he so grouchy all the time?

John Byrne is racist?

"OH NOES!!! SOMEONE HALF-LATINA IS PLAYING SUE STORM! That's not MY INVISIBLE GIRL!1! <foam>"

[fishtaco]

If not Excalibur, how about the PAD X-Factor?I'll settle for that one.

And when Claremont wrote Classic X-Men #8, he had restrictions. Jim Shooter allowed Chris to write that story so he can add what he had to say about Phoenix Rising, without violating/contradicting the Fantastic Four/Avengers crossover. As far as I can see, what Alan Davis did in Excalibur doesn't contradict Phoenix Rising and Classic X-Men #8. But I agree with you on Morrison's interpretation as a contradiction. Oh, well.

Since the next assignment will not be Claremont-penned, I would love to go over...

- Stan Lee Uncanny X-Men
- Roy Thomas Uncanny X-Men
- Roy Thomas Uncanny X-Men (2nd time, with Neal Adams)
- John Byrne X-Men: The Hidden Years
- John Byrne Alpha Flight
- Bill Mantlo Alpha Flight
- Alan Davis Excalibur (written and drawn by him)
- Tom DeFalco Firestar (this might need to be part of a whole since it's only 4 issues)
- Ann Nocenti Longshot (same as Firestar)
- MCP X-stories
- Louise Simonson New Mutants
- Dazzler (hard for me to obtain, though)
- Whilce Portacio Uncanny X-Men
- PAD/Buscema Wolverine and Goodwin/Byrne Wolverine
- Bob Layton/Louise Simonson/Jackson Guice/Walter Simonson X-Factor
- PAD X-Factor
- Jim Lee X-Men (2nd Series)
- Marvel UK Captain Britain stuff (Captain Britain series, Mighty World of Marvel, Marvel Super-Heroes UK, all that Brian Braddock pre-Excalibur stuff by Alan Moore and all that)

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

I'm very tempted. In fact, it's one of my top choices right now.

My only concern is that it's hard to collect, since no reprints are available. This early in this project, I'd hate to lose people due to frustrations over getting the reading material.

I think I'll have to wait until this thing has built up some more momentum. Sorry, Ben. I'm actually very eager to read it, myself.

WE should try reading new xmen ( xmen academy) it's a nice read and something new, a change from the old stuff for a change ;)

[xakko]

WE should try reading new xmen ( xmen academy) it's a nice read and something new, a change from the old stuff for a change ;)
Nunzio and Christina, or C&C?

[Uncle Nobs]

i know Jean WAS Phoenix in Uncanny X-Men #100.

But that was retconned to bring her back in X-Factor #1. If you read Phoenix Rising, it's clear there that the Phoenix is a seperate entity, and this is further progressed in Excalibur by Alan Davis. And even in the backup in Classic X-Men #8, the Phoenix is still distinct from Jean. And even tho' it speaks with Jean's voice, the retcon made it so that the Phoenix thought it was Jean. It completely duplicated her in every respect.

The story of Feron, Necrom, Merlin and the Phoenix could be reconciled with the earlier retcon for the most part, but not with Morrison's version, which was the point that i was trying to make.
I hear what you're saying, but I don't think you're hearing what I've been saying. Please bear with me because none of this is meant to sound combative.

There are two schools of thought over what the Phoenix Force actually did to Jean in the retcon. One says it merely copied her. The other is a bit more intricate, but it has a bit more evidence to back it up.

Originally in (Uncanny) X-Men #100, Jean is Phoenix. There is no Phoenix Force. There is no separate woman calling herself Jean/Phoenix. There's just Jean who reaches her true potential and calls herself Phoenix.

Then Byrne and the gang retconned that in Avengers #262, Fantastic Four #286, and X-Factor. They introduced the idea of the Phoenix Force as a cosmic entity. They claimed that the Phoenix Force merely copied Jean's body and memories for itself. Then, it sent the original Jean--her original body complete with her soul--into the cocoon at the bottom of Jamaica Bay.

But Byrne's text in Fantastic Four #286 was vague. Byrne suggested (through Captain America and the Invisible Woman's mouths) that Jean had given the Phoenix Force more than just DNA and memories, that she had given it part of her soul. It was vague, but it left Claremont a loophole that he would take advantage of a year later.

Claremont's response was to write Classic X-Men #8. In this story, the Phoenix Force approaches Jean just as it did in Byrne's story. The crucial difference is that it splits Jean's soul in two. One half stays in Jean's original body, to be healed in the cocoon in Jamaica Bay. The other half bonds to the Phoenix Force and animates the cloned body. But Claremont establishes that it really is her own soul, split in two--not just the Phoenix Force with a copied body and copied memories, as Byrne had suggested.

The narrative reads as if Jean's consciousness shifted into the Phoenix Force, but a part of her soul remained in her near-lifeless original body. From Classic X-Men #8:

Jean/Phoenix: "I--I'm alive-- --more so than ever before-- --This is fantastic! I can see the solar wind-- shunt its radiation streams aside with ease-- --hear the starsong, the language of the Milky Way itself! I... feel the resonance of every living thing on Earth--OH!?! Is this... me? I didn't think there'd be a body. And it's still alive! Only a spark-- but so bright-- Some stubborn piece of my soul, still fighting on its own terms, refusing the gift that was offered."

Unfortunately, even this narrative is vague enough to be argued against. When Inferno came along, Claremont and the Simonsons cemented the history.

(Here's where I have to apologize, because I don't own X-Factor #38 to refer to it. If someone can verify this, I'd appreciate it.)

As Jean faces Madelyne, the Phoenix Force appears and explains that when it "died" on the moon, it wanted to return the piece of Jean that it stole. It becomes clear that the life force that animated the woman known as Phoenix/Dark Phoenix was a mix of the Phoenix Force and Jean Grey's own soul. This gestalt soul is what sparked Madelyne to life, as she had no soul of her own.

Moreover, when Madelyne died, Jean absorbed her essence. This means that since Inferno, Jean has reintegrated the part of herself she lost during the shuttle crash--the part of herself that lived its life as Phoenix/Dark Phoenix and later as Madelyne/Goblin Queen. And it was also the part of her that had merged with an aspect of the Phoenix Force. Hence, Jean re-absorbed the Phoenix Force during Inferno, as well.

For several years afterward, stories such as the ones in Davis' Excalibur explored the idea of the Phoenix Force as a cosmic entity. Of course, this means that the Phoenix Force not only split Jean's soul, but it split itself too. Otherwise, how could it continue to fulfill its function throughout the universe while it occupied her cloned body?

When Morrison had Jean manifest the powers of Phoenix, he was merely using what had already been established. Other writers between Inferno and New X-Men had tried the same, but it seemed Marvel was unready to commit. During the Kelly/Seagle era, Jean began to display Phoenix powers, but the story was shelved soon after it began. Claremont even made an attempt himself during his Revolution run, where he had her embracing her Phoenix side. Of course, we all know how abruptly Revolution ended, so we'll never know where he was going with it.

[Uncle Nobs]

WE should try reading new xmen ( xmen academy) it's a nice read and something new, a change from the old stuff for a change ;)
I'm hesitant to go with something so new.

One of the ideas behind this thread is to discover or re-read older material to see if we can appreciate it better once it's not so new.

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

I'm hesitant to go with something so new.

One of the ideas behind this thread is to discover or re-read older material to see if we can appreciate it better once it's not so new.

oo ok well then the old new xmen....

[Uncle Nobs]

I have two assignments in mind. I've chosen them specifically for four factors:

-Brevity: Not something that will take multiple assignments to complete.
-Accessibility: Reasonably priced and relatively easy to get our hands on them.
-Variety: Provides contrast to our ongoing "core canon" assignment.
-Fun: Probably new to many of us or at least so forgotten that it's new again.

I'll put it up for a vote:

Assignment A:
Longshot #1-6
Firestar #1-4

Assignment B:
Muties #1-6
Morlocks #1-4
The Brotherhood #1-9

(You'll notice that assignment B is a bit heftier. That's because Longshot is a little harder to find than the rest. Price-wise, it should all balance out.)

You have until tomorrow night (Thursday) at 9:00 p.m. Pacific Time to vote. Which will it be? Assignment A or Assignment B?

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

Can you give us a little synopsis on those 2 ?

[Uncle Nobs]

Can you give us a little synopsis on those 2 ?
Sure thing. http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

ooo you are making this hard on me ;P lol

[Uncle Nobs]

Just a quick bump here. Be sure to vote today by 9:00 p.m. Pacific, 12:00 a.m. Eastern.

[Mikl C]

I'd love to read Firestar.. Could someone find me a link where they sell it online in the UK? Izzat possible? Pretty please?

[Shane Shooter]

You're the Boss Dood it doesn't matter to me ...... you give me the assignment and I'll read it !

ALthough I wouldn't mind reading Assignment A, because I've acually tried to find the complete MINI of MORLOCKs before (cause It intrigued me) but I couldn't find it anywhere

[xakko]

For several years afterward, stories such as the ones in Davis' Excalibur explored the idea of the Phoenix Force as a cosmic entity. Of course, this means that the Phoenix Force not only split Jean's soul, but it split itself too. Otherwise, how could it continue to fulfill its function throughout the universe while it occupied her cloned body?

i deleted the parts that we essentially agree on.

which is almost all of it, really. but Phoenix is an infinite being, really, or as close as can be understood. the fractional portion that was bonded to Madelyne (and later to Jean) doesn't necessarily diminish the Phoenix itself. Supposedly, since Inferno happened early in Excalibur, both Jean and Rachel had a little Phoenix in them. Well, quite a bit in Rachel's case.

if you'll remember, a portion of Phoenix was entombed by Necrom to create the Anti-Phoenix. it isn't unprecedented, and doesn't really have any measurable effect of the Phoenix entity itself.

I just found the Phoenix Corps to be an unnecessary complication, as well as the "burning away what doesn't work" aspect.

[Uncle Nobs]

You're the Boss Dood it doesn't matter to me ...... you give me the assignment and I'll read it !

ALthough I wouldn't mind reading Assignment A, because I've acually tried to find the complete MINI of MORLOCKs before (cause It intrigued me) but I couldn't find it anywhere
MileHighComics.com has it for less than $1 per ish. Don't worry. I won't create any impossible challenges. :)

[xakko]

I'd love to read Firestar.. Could someone find me a link where they sell it online in the UK? Izzat possible? Pretty please?
Firestar- the entire limited series- was just released in Digest form.

Longshot is a bit more difficult. I haven't read it yet, but I want it. However, I want the trade, and it would kinda suck to have Marvel re-release it soon.

I haven't read The Brotherhood or Morlocks, so that would be cool too

I will go with option A. In the end, I've heard great things about Longshot, the series, and love that Art Adams art.

[Gene M.]

Assignment A.

I've always wanted to read those two stories and I should be able to take part in this month's assignment.

[Uncle Nobs]

...I just found the Phoenix Corps to be an unnecessary complication, as well as the "burning away what doesn't work" aspect.
"Burning away what doesn't work" makes sense to me, since the Phoenix's purpose--while stated over and over again throughout the years--has always been left vague. So I can accept that such a force of creation and destruction has an ultimate purpose of change--of cleaning up what's broken in the universe through an endless cycle of creation and destruction.

Phoenix Corps, though... I'm a bit confused. It never sat well with me. I think I'd have to re-read it to form a more complete opinion. At first glance, I'm inclined to agree that it seems to contradict some things that had previously been established.

[spoon_jenkins]

Assignment A.

[fishtaco]

Assignment A Assignment A Assignment A Assignment A Assignment A!!!!!!!

[Indigo Al]

Holy CRAP! I just donated Firestar 1-4 (among other stuff) to the Housing Works bookstore, not 3 days ago!

http://www.housingworks.org/usedbookcafe/

[Affinity]

A. Definitely, man.

Lol I thought you were Blackcat with the bold posting and was like, "We have to vote for his suggestions? Who the hell does he think he IS?!" lolol

I really want motivation to read Longshot. I have 1-6 and I'll need Firestar, but I want to read it badly but it's just so crazy that I can't.

[Uncle Nobs]

Assignment A it is, then. Never let it be said that I am an undemocratic uncle.

Longshot #1-6 & Firestar #1-4, both available in TPB/digest form. Due September 21st. Remember: NO spoilerage until the due date.

Glad to see so many people on board! :D

[twilight]

If only being a starving artist didn't prevent me from participating ;_;

[fishtaco]

Assignment A it is, then. Never let it be said that I am an undemocratic uncle.

Longshot #1-6 & Firestar #1-4, both available in TPB/digest form. Due September 21st. Remember: NO spoilerage until the due date.

Glad to see so many people on board! :DI didn't know Longshot #'s 1-6 was collected. Hmm.

[Shane Shooter]

Another Classic line from the last assignment during the classic run in the Wolverine and Nightcrawler story a kid says:

"I can't wait to tell Mummy and Poppy we saw an Alien"

one of the few times I'm on my neck laughing out loud in a comic

[Gene M.]

Bump, because this shouldn't be buried under crappy threads.

[Affinity]

Question regarding the previous assignment:

Ever since Jean bursted out through the waters, that wasn't Jeanat all, was it? For the rest of the assignment and until that FF issue, it's not Jean during this duration but the Phoenix, correct?

[xakko]

Question regarding the previous assignment:

Ever since Jean bursted out through the waters, that wasn't Jeanat all, was it? For the rest of the assignment and until that FF issue, it's not Jean during this duration but the Phoenix, correct?
per the retcon, yes, you are correct.

when it was originally written, it was Jean, but that changed when they brought back the original 5 in X-Factor. so if you want to read it with a mind to current continuity, read the Jean in these issues as an alien infused with part of Jean's lifeforce.

[Affinity]

Just wanted to make sure. Thanks, xakko.

I feel like reading this issues believing it's Jean is fine. And then if you're reading today's books you can do the whole telekinetic cocoon thing.

[spoon_jenkins]

Yeah, what xakko. At the time, it was considered to be Jean. In 1986, it was retconned to be Phoenix taking Jean's place.

I have some thoughts on choosing assignments; I hope I'm not thinking too far ahead. So ever other assignment is the core Uncanny/Classic stuff, right? Those have been pre-determined excpet for the range. So it hasn't been decided, for example, whether it'll be Classic #14-26 or #14-30 or whatever. In that case, maybe the other assignments should be selected somewhat earlier to provide more time to get them. For example, there was about 3 weeks notice on the Sept. 21 assignment (Firestar and Longshot). Maybe the Nov. 21 assignment should be announced around Oct. 15 or 21 to give folks more time. Just a thought.

Also, Uncanny #106 and 110 aren't reprinted in Classic X-Men. I have a copy of #106 and a different reprint of #110, but I was wondering if those two are going to be in the October assignment.

[Uncle Nobs]

Just wanted to make sure. Thanks, xakko.

I feel like reading this issues believing it's Jean is fine. And then if you're reading today's books you can do the whole telekinetic cocoon thing.
Xakko and I were just hashing this out earlier because it's a very confusing subject. First it was Jean, then the retcon said it wasn't Jean, then Claremont fixed the retcon to say it was Jean... sorta.

See this post (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=3618165&postcount=208) for details.

[xakko]

Xakko and I were just hashing this out earlier because it's a very confusing subject. First it was Jean, then the retcon said it wasn't Jean, then Claremont fixed the retcon to say it was Jean... sorta.

See this post (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=3618165&postcount=208) for details.
I think we agreed that, post-retcon, Jean's original body remained at the bottom of Jamaica bay, right?

[Uncle Nobs]

Yeah, what xakko. At the time, it was considered to be Jean. In 1986, it was retconned to be Phoenix taking Jean's place.

I have some thoughts on choosing assignments; I hope I'm not thinking too far ahead. So ever other assignment is the core Uncanny/Classic stuff, right? Those have been pre-determined excpet for the range. So it hasn't been decided, for example, whether it'll be Classic #14-26 or #14-30 or whatever. In that case, maybe the other assignments should be selected somewhat earlier to provide more time to get them. For example, there was about 3 weeks notice on the Sept. 21 assignment (Firestar and Longshot). Maybe the Nov. 21 assignment should be announced around Oct. 15 or 21 to give folks more time. Just a thought.

Also, Uncanny #106 and 110 aren't reprinted in Classic X-Men. I have a copy of #106 and a different reprint of #110, but I was wondering if those two are going to be in the October assignment.
You thunk good thinks. :)

I will try to announce our assignments sooner. I like how 3 weeks challenges us to learn to use our resources better, but I know that under certain circumstances, it's still a tough window.

I will always edit all assignments into the first post of this thread for easy reference. Here's what we have lined up, including October's assignment:

August 2006: (Still discussing for as long as we like)
Classic X-Men #1-13. Also available as Giant Size X-Men #1 and (Uncanny) X-Men #94-105 (all available in multiple reprint editions), and X-Men: Vignettes (TPB) vol. 1.
Due August 21st.

September 2006:
Longshot #1-6 and Firestar #1-4 (both available in TPB form).
Due September 21st.

October 2006:
Classic X-Men #14-25, (Uncanny) X-Men #106, and (Uncanny) X-Men #110. Also available as Uncanny #106-119 (in multiple reprint editions) and X-Men: Vignettes (TPB) vol. 2. (#106 & 110 are not reprinted in Classic #14-25. If you choose to use the Classic X-Men reprints, I suggest reading #106 & 110 for free in a good bookstore or library.)
Due October 21st.

HUGE thanks to Spoon, because I would have botched that whole 106/110 mess for sure!

[Mikl C]

I'm SO in. for the next assignment anyway. Firestar is so fab! Go Angelica!

[Uncle Nobs]

I think we agreed that, post-retcon, Jean's original body remained at the bottom of Jamaica bay, right?
Oh for sure. Her original body was playing lady of the lake. No question.

It's just that there are two schools of thought over whether the Phoenix Force just cloned Jean and copied her memories to create the woman known as Phoenix, or if the Phoenix Force actually split her soul in two as well as copying her body and mind, making both women (original Jean and Phoenix-Jean) truly Jean.

[Mikl C]

Jean herself said it wasn't her at all. SO unless she's secretly EEEVIL then I'd believe her. Oh wait.

[Uncle Nobs]

Jean herself said it wasn't her at all. SO unless she's secretly EEEVIL then I'd believe her. Oh wait.
When did she say this?

In Inferno, original Jean reabsorbed Madelyne (who was in fact the life essence of Jean-Phoenix who died on the moon, animating the body cloned by Sinister, twisted by Sinister, S'ym, N'astirh, and her own tragedies).

Since then, the consciousnesses and life experiences of all three women have been integrated in her mind. Many fans and writers seem to have missed it. Marvel seemed to purposely distance itself from such a confusing story for many years.

[Mikl C]

Erm. Lemme think. Some asparagus man was after her. It was during Maximum Security. Jean's all " I don't feel guilty at all! T'wasnt me hehe!"
Or something :p

[fishtaco]

October 2006:
Classic X-Men #14-25, (Uncanny) X-Men #106, and (Uncanny) X-Men #110. Also available as Uncanny #106-119 (in multiple reprint editions) and X-Men: Vignettes (TPB) vol. 2. (#106 & 110 are not reprinted in Classic #14-25. If you choose to use the Classic X-Men reprints, I suggest reading #106 & 110 for free in a good bookstore or library.) Due October 21st.Wait, what? Do you mean #'s 106-110? Why 106 and 110?

[xakko]

Wait, what? Do you mean #'s 106-110? Why 106 and 110?
as mentioned, they weren't in "classic X-men"

it's weird, 'cause i have a t-shirt of Colossus from #110.

[Uncle Nobs]

as mentioned, they weren't in "classic X-men"

it's weird, 'cause i have a t-shirt of Colossus from #110.
Holy shirt!

I've never seen or heard of such a shirt. Is it the image of him transforming & running during the baseball game?

[xakko]

Holy shirt!

I've never seen or heard of such a shirt. Is it the image of him transforming & running during the baseball game?
no- its from zazzle.com and it's where he's pounding Warhawk:

http://img.zazzle.com/dzn/CA/4F/75/CA4F7529-BD84-44F2-ADC0-E3A707551AAE/pre_sz125_qt80.jpg

[Uncle Nobs]

no- its from zazzle.com and it's where he's pounding Warhawk:

http://img.zazzle.com/dzn/CA/4F/75/CA4F7529-BD84-44F2-ADC0-E3A707551AAE/pre_sz125_qt80.jpg
Ack! That was my next guess. Foiled again!

Darn your craftiness, Zazzle. Darn you straight to heck.

[spoon_jenkins]

Wait, what? Do you mean #'s 106-110? Why 106 and 110?
For some reason, Marvel decided not to reprint Uncanny #106 and 110 in Classic X-Men. I guess they thought it would break up the flow of the storyline. Issue 106 was a fill-in story, so I guess the rationale might work there, but #110 only has a guest artist so I don't think that's justified. But as far as I know #106 and #110 were reprinted in sequence in the various other reprints (Essential, Masterworks, Omnibus) out there. I bought an original copy of #106 on ebay a couple years ago. I have #110 in a weird little paperback. It black and white and reprints two other stories. It shifts the panel layout so they can fit on the tiny page. You can see the Amazon listing for that little paperback here. (http://www.amazon.com/Uncanny-X-Men-Chris-Claremont/dp/0812510216/ref=sr_11_1/002-7023377-5382465?ie=UTF8)

[Mikl C]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Longshot/dp/087135568X/sr=1-3/qid=1157315137/ref=sr_1_3/202-9337526-8682251?ie=UTF8&s=books

Is this the right longshot tpb? Whee!