Bone claws in Movie???

[Big A Hatfield]

I know these forums are primarily concerning the comic books, but I read in a supposedly authentic review of the Wolverine script that the story includes a pre-adamantium time when Logan had "bone claws".:eek: The "bone claws" story line was one of the worst creations in the Wolverine history; it took a fantastic character and made him ridiculous. The fact that Wolvie's healing factor made him one of the only people who could survive the Weapon X surgery established him a fascinating and unusually believable character, a mutant of modest powers made deadly and nearly invincible. Brian Singer wisely ignored this whole aspect of Wolverine's "history", even implying that Striker had "given him his claws". Every fan I told about this (except one) is horrified and threatening to boycott the film if they include the bone claw nonsense. How could the powers that be, and Jackman himself, be so out of touch with what makes this character great? Whoever came up with the stupid "bone claw" idea in the first place has a special seat reserved for him in Bad Artist Hell.

[rwsmith]

Yeah, definitely worth boycotting the film over. :rolleyes:

'Cause Spidey having organic webshooters certainly ruined those films for everyone.

[Affinity]

I don't get it.

[Cowlander]

why is it assumed the artist came up with the idea?

[Zengei]

I think Wolverine having bone claws just made sense. If it were part of his mutation already, the Weapon X guys wouldn't have to go through the trouble of figuring out how to cram three foot-long admanatium claws and their mechanisms into his forearms.

EDIT: Actually, when I was first introduced to the character, I always assumed his claws were bone (or keratin) laced with adamantium, along with the rest of his skeleton. That's what made the most sense to me. Cause if you think about it, if you can give someone bionic claws that pop out of their arm, then there has got to be far more interesting (and more effective) things you could give him.

[Finn]

How were the bone claws bad? I thought they were great, and I guarantee that those people (couldnt be fans) that said they will boycott the film will see it, even if there are bone claws

[Mikl C]

Wait. When wolveirne has adamantium claws are they bone coated in adamantium or solid adamantium blades? That's always confused me.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

The bone claws were an actual shock when Fatal Attractions ended. I was genuinely blown away by that issue. I've alays thought it was a very interesting and important part of Wolvie's history - the fact he never even remembered having them.

I also liked the whole feral regression storyline, and Elektra having to guide him back to his humanity through discipline. Although at times I think they took the physical 'no nose' wolverine a bit too far. He shouldn't have physically regressed THAT much.

[Gene M.]

I also liked the whole feral regression storyline, and Elektra having to guide him back to his humanity through discipline. Although at times I think they took the physical 'no nose' wolverine a bit too far. He shouldn't have physically regressed THAT much.

My favorite part of that was how one day he just had his nose back. I like to think he wore that goofy looking pirate bandana mask to cover up this funky looking, infant-like nubblet of a nose that was growing back underneath the mask.

[Apocalypse Now Then!]

My favorite part of that was how one day he just had his nose back. I like to think he wore that goofy looking pirate bandana mask to cover up this funky looking, infant-like nubblet of a nose that was growing back underneath the mask.

Maybe it was a 'magic' bandana...?:rolleyes:

They really bowed to fan pressure on that one. Everybody was ribbing them for that.

[Gene M.]

Maybe it was a 'magic' bandana...?:rolleyes:

They really bowed to fan pressure on that one. Everybody was ribbing them for that.

And with good reason, too.

[saintsaucey]

Here's what I want to see. The first part of the movie, Bruce Banner in the Nevada dessert working with gamma radiation. He rushes out to the test site when some unsuspecting person wanders in and is exposed to the gamma radiation. Second part of the movie, The hulk raging through Las Vegas just tearing shit up, a pencil pushing Military guy gets on the phone and makes a call. One end of the phone call "Nick I can't handle this I don't know what to do, I need help. Other end of the phone call. A stough as nails stoagy smoking man with stubble and salt and pepper hair speaks calmly into the phone. "Don't worry, I know just the man for the job. A military helicopter flys in low over Las Vegas where the hulk continues to rampage. A shadowey figure jumps out and lands on the ground right in front of Hulk. he looks up and snears says somehting cool that ends with the word bub, and the movie concludes with them beating the shit out of each other until Logan/Weapon X eventually takes out the hulk. subdues him at least. :) You all thought I was nuts and forgot this was the Wolverine movie didn't you.

[Doom Hammer]

The fact that Wolvie's healing factor made him one of the only people who could survive the Weapon X surgery established him a fascinating and unusually believable character, a mutant of modest powers made deadly and nearly invincible.

When you put it like that, it does sound pretty awesome. I kind of wish that were still the case. Oh, well.

[Deadpooligan]

How could bone claws be a bad idea if they played a major role in quite possibly the most ingenious Wolverine solo story in the past decade (Origin of course).

Think about it. You can't just implant bones with a trigger reaction in somebody with Wolverine's powers. Logically, they coated his bones in adamantium, so they'd have to cover whatever was already there...

At the time of Fatal Attractions, Wolverine had no recollection of anything before Weapon X/Department H/Alpha Flight years. Bone claws were a shock to all.

[Sean Whitmore]

'Cause Spidey having organic webshooters certainly ruined those films for everyone.


I could kinda see the point behind those complaints. I didn't agree--felt the pros outweighted the cons--but I understood.

This....is just bizarre. I don't mean to be snarky, it's just a bizarre complaint.


SEAN

[Gene M.]

I could kinda see the point behind those complaints. I didn't agree--felt the pros outweighted the cons--but I understood.

This....is just bizarre. I don't mean to be snarky, it's just a bizarre complaint.


SEAN

It has to be a first: A fan complaining about a comic book movie that sticks to the source material.

[fishtaco]

I know these forums are primarily concerning the comic books, but I read in a supposedly authentic review of the Wolverine script that the story includes a pre-adamantium time when Logan had "bone claws".:eek: The "bone claws" story line was one of the worst creations in the Wolverine history; it took a fantastic character and made him ridiculous. The fact that Wolvie's healing factor made him one of the only people who could survive the Weapon X surgery established him a fascinating and unusually believable character, a mutant of modest powers made deadly and nearly invincible. Brian Singer wisely ignored this whole aspect of Wolverine's "history", even implying that Striker had "given him his claws". Every fan I told about this (except one) is horrified and threatening to boycott the film if they include the bone claw nonsense. How could the powers that be, and Jackman himself, be so out of touch with what makes this character great? Whoever came up with the stupid "bone claw" idea in the first place has a special seat reserved for him in Bad Artist Hell.I agree, except for when you said that it took a fantastic character and made him ridiculous. I think that the bone claws took a character that was once fantastic but already became ridiculous and made him even more ridiculous. I think the bone claw revelation took away the importance and point of Weapon X (1990). I'm not even going to see the Wolverine movie.

[JmH Reborn]

I always thought Wolvie's claws were bone underneath...it just didn't even make sense NOT to be, even for a comic book, so Wolverine #75 was both a relief and a shock...its real lame to even complain that the movie will even introduce it...it's perfect, I mean, how did they 'give' him the claws? Completely open up his arms and surgically implant them meanwhile he's healing? Besides, the adamantium has to be coated and formed while hot... the bone claws make perfect sense...people can be idiots at time...boycotting movies...it makes folks trivial and generally jerks

[becominAfanAgain]

Here's what I want to see. The first part of the movie, Bruce Banner in the Nevada dessert working with gamma radiation. He rushes out to the test site when some unsuspecting person wanders in and is exposed to the gamma radiation. Second part of the movie, The hulk raging through Las Vegas just tearing shit up, a pencil pushing Military guy gets on the phone and makes a call. One end of the phone call "Nick I can't handle this I don't know what to do, I need help. Other end of the phone call. A stough as nails stoagy smoking man with stubble and salt and pepper hair speaks calmly into the phone. "Don't worry, I know just the man for the job. A military helicopter flys in low over Las Vegas where the hulk continues to rampage. A shadowey figure jumps out and lands on the ground right in front of Hulk. he looks up and snears says somehting cool that ends with the word bub, and the movie concludes with them beating the shit out of each other until Logan/Weapon X eventually takes out the hulk. subdues him at least. :) You all thought I was nuts and forgot this was the Wolverine movie didn't you.

I can't see that happening unless the Hulk ur talking about is in (Mr. Fisk) class. First that battle could go on for two whole movies. And second I can't see wolvie calming the hulk down long enough to beat him unless the Hulk change since last I read. I mean the madder he gets the stronger he gets right?!

But back on the topic at hand. I don't mind them doing something on the bone claw as long as it's written well. I mean it only makes since to have bone claw seeing as the adamantium covered every bone in his body. Just because he didn't remeber them before hand means little to nothing in his case, because of his shooty memory of his past.

Hey JmH Reborn which issue did you get your signture from?

[Uncle Nobs]

I know these forums are primarily concerning the comic books, but I read in a supposedly authentic review of the Wolverine script that the story includes a pre-adamantium time when Logan had "bone claws".:eek: The "bone claws" story line was one of the worst creations in the Wolverine history; it took a fantastic character and made him ridiculous. The fact that Wolvie's healing factor made him one of the only people who could survive the Weapon X surgery established him a fascinating and unusually believable character, a mutant of modest powers made deadly and nearly invincible. Brian Singer wisely ignored this whole aspect of Wolverine's "history", even implying that Striker had "given him his claws". Every fan I told about this (except one) is horrified and threatening to boycott the film if they include the bone claw nonsense. How could the powers that be, and Jackman himself, be so out of touch with what makes this character great? Whoever came up with the stupid "bone claw" idea in the first place has a special seat reserved for him in Bad Artist Hell.
Boycotting is extreme (and unlikely), but I agree with much of what you said.

I have always hated the stupid, stupid bone claws.

Yes, the moment they were revealed was a shock that many appreciated. It was a well-kept secret that few could have predicted. But that doesn't mean it' was a good idea.

Yes, the "feral Wolverine" stories are also popular among fans. That doesn't mean telling a story about Logan going feral couldn't have been done without the bone claw retcon.

I'm not even anti-retcons in general. They can serve their purpose, if well done. But the entire decision to retcon Logan's origin with bone claws changed the character completely, which is the WORST kind of retcon.

We had little information about Logan's life before Weapon X, but here is what we knew:

Logan was a brawling wanderer with no accountability for his actions. He was flawed and temperamental, but he was essentially in a state of grace. His affinity with nature was unhampered. He was a natural being. He had (at some unknown point) committed himself to some unknown path of honor and had failed horribly, but still he had himself. He was free and natural and wholly himself. No matter how badly he failed, he could always lose himself in nature.

It is possible--and likely--that his berzerker rages may have stemmed from something earlier than Weapon X. But even in the most enraged bareknuckle drag-out, it takes work to kill anyone. Without claws, he was free to be as aggressive as he pleased.

When he drank, he fought. When someone tried to cheat him, he fought. When he was pulling a scam with some friends and needed a distraction, he fought. When a woman was involved, he fought.

The Weapon X program was not just a bad weekend. It wasn't just a charley horse to shake off. (Come on, he's been through PLENTY of invasive, horribly painful experiences--!)

The Weapon X program was a complete violation of his essence. It robbed him of who he was. No longer a carefree brawler and rambler, he was now a walking weapon. When he lost his temper now, people died.

If he lost it even for a moment, people died. Think about that. Can you imagine how much you'd hate yourself?

Worse, the very nature of what they did to him made him hate himself even more, which in turn exacerbated his rages. There was now something foreign in his body--a break in his kinship with nature--and he couldn't stand the thought of it. He was no longer natural, no longer free. His own body was something foreign and branded as someone else's property. He had always struggled between being an animal or a man, but now he was (essentially) a machine, too. For all the ways he hated himself for his unknown failures prior to Weapon X, now he even hated what he was--an unnatural killing machine.

...And then they introduce the bone claws. Suddenly, he's always been a walking weapon who kills instinctively. Suddenly, the Weapon X project is nothing more than a series of owies. Suddenly, the adamantium skeleton and claws really are an enhancement, with no downside whatsoever.

Sure, he still struggles with having something foreign inside him, breaking his kinship with nature, making him hate what he has become. But it has no real impact. I mean, so what if that makes him more pissed off? Now, he's always had to control his temper or else people will die. Now, he's always been a killing machine who hates himself. Big deal. Where's the tragedy?

I suppose it could even be argued that the bone claws made him more natural, more animal. But again, where's the tragedy of what the Weapon X project did to him? So what if he had an even greater bond with nature due to having natural claws? If the program only served to accentuate those traits instead of changing his very nature, where's the poetry of it?

Needless to say, I was not happy with Origin reaffirming the bone claws, but what's done is done. I didn't expect them to correct their stupid mistake this late in the game. I was especially unthrilled to see Origin establish that his berzerker rages were just as bad as a child as they were later in life. Apparently, Weapon X had little effect on him whatsoever!



Aside from all that, the retcon is simply contradictory. (This is the only part of my argument that is continuity-obsessed.) Back in the day, it was mentioned several times that the Weapon X project implanted bionic housings in his arms... as in, we can see the bionic housings on the X-ray photos. In fact, those housings were depicted several times. The OHOTMU also mentioned that the claws came from bionic housings.

A bunch of fanboy whining later, I come to my point that the retcon was a stretch in the amount of suspension of disbelief it asked of the fans. Retcons--when done right--should ask very little of the audience, revealing "unrevealed" information that lets us fill in blanks, not completely rewriting what has gone before.

[Mr.Musgrave]

Could someone explain to me how it makes more sense that the adamantium bonding process accidentally formed three uniform claws in both of his fore-arms?

And how does having bone claws before hand suddenly reduce the torment he went though by having metal forcibly inserted into his body and his mind entirely-wiped out?

I may choke on the fanboyism in here.

Edit: Just to save the future hassle I went back and looked through my issues of the Weapon X saga to find this: There's no mention of implanted bionic housings at all. No X-Rays or anything. On top of that the text regarding his hands and writsts is this:

The Professor: Hines...readings.
Hines: Channel's sufficient, Doctor, but there's an excess of drain at...um. Wait. At the flexor brevis--minima digiti section.
The Professor: Plain language please, Miss Hines.
Hines: Hand and wrist, sir. Sorry.

So any of that nonsense about inplanted bionic housings is in fact a retcon from the Weapon X origin story. The excess of adamantium drain had to be going somewhere and it's entirely stupid to think they accidentally formed three uniform claws of equal length. Think, people.

Edit 2: On top of all that his claws were originally written as part of his gloves and nothing more! Would that work better for you people?!

[Uncle Nobs]

Could someone explain to me how it makes more sense that the adamantium bonding process accidentally formed three uniform claws in both of his fore-arms?

And how does having bone claws before hand suddenly reduce the torment he went though by having metal forcibly inserted into his body and his mind entirely-wiped out?

I may choke on the fanboyism in here.
Sure thing.

It was never accidental in the original canon. The Weapon X program designed cybernetic implants (yes, way back in 1975). That's what made the dude Weapon X, and not just Extra Heavy Bone Guy X.

Having bone claws doesn't reduce the torment of the surgery. It reduces the SEVERE dichotomy between who he was before and after the surgery. That dichotomy went a loooong way in defining his character.

And I may choke on your snarkiness, or we can just discuss things without insults. 'Cuz if you're on a comics message board, you're a fanboy too, pal.

[Mr.Musgrave]

Sure thing.

It was never accidental in the original canon. The Weapon X program designed cybernetic implants (yes, way back in 1975).


That's funny because the Weapon X program wasn't named or introduced until the anthology series Marvel Comics Presents in 1991.

[fishtaco]

That's funny because the Weapon X program wasn't named or introduced until the anthology series Marvel Comics Presents in 1991.Wolverine was addressed as Weapon X by Guardian in X-Men (1st Series) #109 (1977), and the Weapon X Program was referred to by Wolverine in Uncanny X-Men #205 (1986). :)

[Uncle Nobs]

Edit: Just to save the future hassle I went back and looked through my issues of the Weapon X saga to find this: There's no mention of implanted bionic housings at all. No X-Rays or anything. On top of that the text regarding his hands and writsts is this:

The Professor: Hines...readings.
Hines: Channel's sufficient, Doctor, but there's an excess of drain at...um. Wait. At the flexor brevis--minima digiti section.
The Professor: Plain language please, Miss Hines.
Hines: Hand and wrist, sir. Sorry.

So any of that nonsense about inplanted bionic housings is in fact a retcon from the Weapon X origin story. The excess of adamantium drain had to be going somewhere and it's entirely stupid to think they accidentally formed three uniform claws of equal length. Think, people.

Edit 2: On top of all that his claws were originally written as part of his gloves and nothing more! Would that work better for you people?!
You're still way off (and still unnecesarily snarky).

Marvel Comics Presents: Weapon X is not the original canon. It's the first attempt to reveal Logan's hidden history. I was referring to all the comics that came before it (which can't retcon something that hadn't been printed yet).

Every other Marvel comic that went into detail about his claws before MCP: Weapon X (including the OHOTMU) said very clearly that the Weapon X project implanted bionic housings. Yes, there are skeletal scans depicted in several issues. No, I don't have the time to look them up right now. No, that's not proof that they don't exist, only that I don't have time to look them up right now. If you really can't accept my word for it, look it up yourself.

As far as being "written as part of his gloves and nothing more!" is concerned, you are waaaaay off.

His first appearance said nothing of how his claws worked. Fans assumed they were simply a weapon attached to his gloves--but only for a few months. In Uncanny #98--only his 8th appearance ever--he popped his claws without gloves (much to Banshee's shock).

As far as the quote from MCP: Weapon X is concerned, you are reading what you choose from that. An "excess drain at hand and wrist" can mean whatever we choose. It can mean his body is rejecting the bionic implants. It can mean there is some sort of natural structure they had not accounted for (although this seems unlikely in such an extensive procedure).

Part of the genius of Barry Windsor-Smith's story is that he purposely leaves much of it very vague, almost dreamlike. In any case, that example does not support your argument. It's purposely vague and can be applied to nearly any theory about Logan or the adamantium bonding process.

[Uncle Nobs]

Wolverine was addressed as Weapon X by Guardian in X-Men (1st Series) #109 (1977), and the Weapon X Program was referred to by Wolverine in Uncanny X-Men #205 (1986). :)
Thanks, Fishy. Snark-free thread now, hopefully?

[Sean Whitmore]

I must admit, Nobs, you make an excellent point (which is normal for you). In the old days, Logan did lament that Weapon X turned him into a weapon, but if he'd always had claws, he's ALWAYS been a weapon.

Of course, his thinking that was still valid, because if I remember correctly Logan had completely forgotten about his bone claws until he lost the adamantium. So as far as he knew at the time, Weapon X was still responsible for giving him his one and only set of claws.

And in my humble little ol' opinion, Logan's past is a less important part of who he is than other characters, since he basically had to start over from scratch after Weapon X. So whether the animalistic tendencies that poked through his blank slate of a memory came from being tortured by Weapon X or if they came from his life beforehand, I don't think it affects present-day Logan all that much.


SEAN

[fishtaco]

Thanks, Fishy. Snark-free thread now, hopefully?I hate the bone claw idea...

Having said that, NOW it's snark-free ;) :D

[Mr.Musgrave]

Every other Marvel comic that went into detail about his claws before MCP: Weapon X (including the OHOTMU) said very clearly that the Weapon X project implanted bionic housings. Yes, there are skeletal scans depicted in several issues. No, I don't have the time to look them up right now. No, that's not proof that they don't exist, only that I don't have time to look them up right now. If you really can't accept my word for it, look it up yourself.


Show me where to look and I will. I've given proof and you've given "take my word for it."

And the OHOTMU isn't part of the "original cannon" either.

And once again, the Weapon X program was not introduced or explained until the MCP series. Wolverine being called "Weapon X" and a reference to a "Weapon X program" is not introducing or explaining anything about either. Unless you can prove otherwise your comic history is wrong. Simple as that.

And I've yet to hear a valid reason how an accident would cause three uniform and blade-like claws to form in both wrists. Especially in such an extensive procedure.

[Vaal]

Bone claw Wolvie may have been dangerous, but only after getting them plated with adamantium was he really capable of military grade damage.

Weapon X still made him exceedingly more dangerous and thier programing focused his destructive tendencies into truly horrible ends. Wolverine on his own, pre Weapon X was not capable of the atrocities he commited as Weapon X.

So really, all the bone claws did was make 'turned me into a weapon' slightly less literal.

[becominAfanAgain]

Not like this will happen, but if the movie is like or close to the comic story line I don't see it being a bad thing having has bone claws in the movie. I mean grant it was a shock to all when he popped them(bone claw) after Magus pulled the metal from his body. They're a part of his history now so we have to deal with it. Like it or not (truly ur not going to like everything marvel writes about a character). (Case and point Spider-man stance in the Civil War I hate the fact that he's backing Stark but I'm dealing with it that what fans do deal or leave.)

Now if the movie writer was adding that to the film without it being in the comic story line the BOYCOT would be valid. The only way I would BOYCOT this movie is if they make it PG or PG 13, because I believe you can not truly tale the story of Wolvie without it being at least a rated R film.

:rolleyes: Then again I MIGHT still go see it MIGHT!!..:o

[Sean Whitmore]

The only way I would BOYCOT this movie is if they make it PG or PG 13, because I believe you can not truly tale the story of Wolvie without it being at least a rated R film.


Sure you can. The comics have told Wolverine's story from beginning to end without ever straying past a relative PG13 rating.

The movie's gonna be PG13 so kids can get in to see it without their parents. Bank on it.


SEAN

[becominAfanAgain]

Sure you can. The comics have told Wolverine's story from beginning to end without ever straying past a relative PG13 rating.

The movie's gonna be PG13 so kids can get in to see it without their parents. Bank on it.


SEAN

Back in the day maybe his titles today lean more to the adult side as seen on the cover of his issues (parental advisory) anything rated under that would be weak. Which in turn would take away from his berserker scenes meaning no blood and no sex or no grimmey bar scenes. Which is the main reason I love the character.
And he is a violent character so if they have half the fights that wolvie goes through blood or not they will have to Rated it high.
Xmen 2 and 3 barely made their rating.

I'm just saying..

[Mjolnir]

i too always thought that they were bone underneath, and then once i read the 'big reveal' of it, i was like "...well, yeah, i mean, of course right?"

i don't see what the big deal is. it didn't completely revamp his history.
i just meant he had a coupla feet more of bone that was covered in adamantium. i liked how he had to deal with that when Magneto stripped him of the metal, like when he had to be Cecilia Reyes' scalpel when they had to cut the bomb from Cyclops' gut

[Callisto]

Having bone claws doesn't reduce the torment of the surgery. It reduces the SEVERE dichotomy between who he was before and after the surgery. That dichotomy went a loooong way in defining his character. .

how is that? logan didn't even really know who he was before to acctually be tormented by what he had become.

[bagheera]

My, oh, my, quite the fuss going on here.

It matters little to me if the claws were his or implanted although I prefer the natural claws idea. It is a part of him and helps promote his sense of animal vs man.

It seems like most of you think the worst thing they did to Wolvie was put adamantium in him. No, no, no. That is not what made him a weapon. It was the mind-wiping, reprogramming, mind-control that molded his inherently violent nature into a weapon. Claws don't make you a weapon. Adamantium doesn't make you a weapon. The ability and willingness to maim, kill and brutalize makes you a killer/predator/thug but when someone else can control you and get you to do their bidding, then they have made you a weapon. They augmented the baser parts of his psyche while trying to eradicate his more human side and turned him into a weapon. The adamantium was more like an accessory, but not the causative agent in his weaponization. If you implanted me with claws and adamantium, I'd be a very heavy, slow-moving middle-aged white woman who would rampantly lie on her driver's license abour her weight. (Ok, we all do that anyway.) It wouldn't make me a weapon.

I absolutely love Barry Windsor-Smith's Weapon X tale, but I don't recall ever thinking it was the adamantium or the claws that made him a weapon. No more than a heavier body or shiny hubcabs would make my car a weapon or me into a person willing to commit vehicular manslaughter.

[Archer]

Now, he's always had to control his temper or else people will die. Now, he's always been a killing machine who hates himself. Big deal. Where's the tragedy?

(snip)

If the program only served to accentuate those traits instead of changing his very nature, where's the poetry of it?


I haven't read the issues in question, but a lot of potential leaps out at me.

The tragedy and poetry of it (as you put it) is simple - here's a guy who has issues with being a killing machine, and blames Weapon X for doing it to him. Blames these big bad guys for horribly violating him and mutilating him.

The potential of the reveal was that all of a sudden, instead of being a basically good person who got ruined by outsiders, he's actually a guy who has physically been like that all along . . . so either Weapon X damaged his *soul* or there was no damage done in the first place and he's been blaming people for *years* instead of accepting responsibility for who he is.

That's your tragedy and poetry right there. What's more tragic and poetic than someone who blames the boogie man for turning him into a monster, only to realise that either the boogie man was much more insidious than he thought, or the boogie man just made him a *better* class of monster? Either way, it means he's got to look at himself in the mirror a new way, and that is interesting.

Of course like I said I haven't read the issues in question so I have no idea if they went anywhere with it, but IMO there's huge potential. I thought X2 hinted at something similar when Stryker said "You were always an animal - I only gave you claws." Basically, in other words, calling him out on all his angst and blaming Weapon X and noting that if he really *is* a total bastard then he was always that way. So, if they go down that route in the movie, I'll be happy.

[Uncle Nobs]

Show me where to look and I will. I've given proof and you've given "take my word for it."
You're still being unecessarily rude and argumentative, and I'm still treating you with respect and debating fairly, despite your rudeness.

To answer your dispute, I can only say I still don't have time today. Sorry. Maybe I can when I get time. Maybe someone else can help out. Fishy? DDM? I think Mr. Musgrave would like information as quickly as possible, and I'm not in the position to do the research right now.

Again, I don't dispute what you say out of simply being argumentative. I dispute it because I clearly remember several textual and visual references to bionic housings being implanted. Several. If you choose to doubt that, go ahead. But don't simply dismiss it because you're feeling argumentative. I'm being fair with you, giving you no reason to doubt my honesty.

And yes, dismissing the fact that I just don't have time to do this yet is argumentative. I would afford you that courtesy. We each have lives to live and don't always have time to look up information for an online debate.




And the OHOTMU isn't part of the "original cannon" either.
The OHOTMU is not part of the original canon. It definitively summarizes the original canon. Back in the day, it was the one-and-only authority on the official history of the Marvel universe. That's why it was called the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. In fact, whenever a story contradicted the OHOTMU, editors or writers would either: A) Update the OHOTMU entry in question, or B) Provide an explanation. They felt duty-bound to do so.

(Nowadays, of course, established Marvel psuedo-science and continuity are much more pliable, much less valued. A character supposedly able to lift only 10 tons will lift 50 tons without explanation, and we all know how little attention is paid to fixing the endless continuity errors.)




And once again, the Weapon X program was not introduced or explained until the MCP series. Wolverine being called "Weapon X" and a reference to a "Weapon X program" is not introducing or explaining anything about either. Unless you can prove otherwise your comic history is wrong. Simple as that.
This claim has already been addressed here, immediately after you made the claim:
Wolverine was addressed as Weapon X by Guardian in X-Men (1st Series) #109 (1977), and the Weapon X Program was referred to by Wolverine in Uncanny X-Men #205 (1986).
I don't know why you're being argumentative. Are you not reading the thread? It's been settled, fairly, respectfully, and rather quickly. (Thanks again, Fishtaco.)




And I've yet to hear a valid reason how an accident would cause three uniform and blade-like claws to form in both wrists. Especially in such an extensive procedure.
And here you have proven that you are not reading the thread. In particular, you are not reading what I wrote specifically to you:
It was never accidental in the original canon. The Weapon X program designed cybernetic implants (yes, way back in 1975). That's what made the dude Weapon X, and not just Extra Heavy Bone Guy X.
How did you miss this? How can you argue against my claim that Marvel repeatedly stated Logan was given meticulously designed bionic implants, but then accuse me of saying that the adamantium claws were an accident? My whole point is that they were most definitely not an accident. It has been stated clearly and repeated several times.

I say this without the intent to insult you: You are really not doing well here.

If you dispute what I'm telling you, I'd prefer to discuss it and not simply defend myself against attacks over questions that have already been resolved.

[UltimateCyclops]

Well, in the second X-Men movie Stryker would seem to say that he gave Wolverine his claws, implying that they weren't a natural part of his mutation before. I mean, it's not like movies have never gone back on themselves, but if they want to stick to the continuity of the movieverse there won't be bone claws.