New Joker...?

[Nick Kal]

"The Joker gets shot in the face, point blank in the first issue," Morrison said, saying that a new Joker will appear in his fifth issue, and will fuel a new Batman-Joker dynamic.

Now what does that mean? Just a different Joker personality wise... or a different person as the Joker? And also, what about that 2nd Batman... Nothing is going to relieve my brain more than actually reading the comic.... ay ay ay!

[Jack Zodiac]

I think the new dynamic he's hinting at will be how Batman reacts to The Joker with a giant bullet hole in his face.

In all seriously, killing The Joker would be the worst idea ever. At least, killing him by having him shot point-blank in the face. Unless someone in the Batfamily has a hand in his end, or witnesses it, it won't be worthwhile. Despite how lame the rest of Winick's run on Batman was, I actually liked the end of the Crisis tie-ins where The Joker blows himself up to try and kill Bruce and Jason. It was fitting.

[PersonaDark]

I'm hoping they aren't planning something like having Joker killed, and then a "Look Kids! It's Earth-2/4/whatever Joker" replacing him. That'll be retarded.

Though it's possible they might pull a Batman Beyond and turn a Cast-Member into a new Joker, which would be worse...

[Jack Zodiac]

Jason Todd as The Joker? :rolleyes:

[Lex]

Maybe it's an answer for all the readers who can't undersand why Batman has let Joker live this long. So he kills Joker... and then a brand new one pops up. The Cosmic Balance must require a Joker to be around for some reason.

Personally, I think this will be a temporary situation that will revert to the iconic status quo at the end. So just sit back and enjoy the story.

[DWEarhart]

I'm wondering if Morrison is crazy enough to dip back into this story....

http://www.mycomicshop.com/res/unprocessed/fullsize/B317V001.jpg

But I seriously doubt it.

[Jack Zodiac]

He's crazy enough to dig out the old Son of the Demon story, so maybe.

[Frostbite883]

ths gal right here
http://www.titanstower.com/source/whoswho/duela.html

[CaptainAwesome]

Wow, that story sounds great. I liked it better when it was called "The Winter Soldier" and happened in Captain America last year. Then again the return of Bucky happened suspiciously soon after the return of Jason Todd. Dude, what if Batman and Captain America are the same book, just put out with different covers?

[Frostbite883]

Wow, that story sounds great. I liked it better when it was called "The Winter Soldier" and happened in Captain America last year. Then again the return of Bucky happened suspiciously soon after the return of Jason Todd. Dude, what if Batman and Captain America are the same book, just put out with different covers?

LOL!!:rolleyes:

[Micro]

Wow, that story sounds great. I liked it better when it was called "The Winter Soldier" and happened in Captain America last year. Then again the return of Bucky happened suspiciously soon after the return of Jason Todd. Dude, what if Batman and Captain America are the same book, just put out with different covers?

hum...maybe Ed Brubaker and Judd Winick are the same person. He wanted to have exclusive contracts for both Marvel and DC so he made up a fake name,..that Brubaker is so clear he's been writing Batman the whole time.

[OverMaster]

With both the Azzarello Joker mini and Joker: Year One coming up, I kinda doubt this is going to be for real. I smell a 'Last Laugh' here.

Of course, they MIGHT do it too, since you never can have enough pointless deaths at Didio's DC.

[OverMaster]

hum...maybe Ed Brubaker and Judd Winick are the same person. He wanted to have exclusive contracts for both Marvel and DC so he made up a fake name,..that Brubaker is so clear he's been writing Batman the whole time.

They definitely AREN'T the same. I have seen photos of both, and you really can tell their writing styles apart.

[Super Sonic]

They definitely AREN'T the same. I have seen photos of both, and you really can tell their writing styles apart.

Yeah, Brubaker's good.

[PastePotPete]

So what's the new Joker going to be like?
New Batman is friendlier, more laid-back, a people person.

What's the deal with new Joker going to be? Less psychotic, more criminal? I think he's more interesting if he knows what he's doing.

In Wizard, Morrison said he still saw the Joker as he wrote him in Arkham Asylum. He said he thinks he's a real 21st Century personality in that every day he looks at his life and personality as this big multiple choice opportunity. He re-invents himself constantly, forgetting what he was before.

[agentofthebat]

when is this going all down?

[Nintendite]

Anyone else thinking that this "new joker" will end up looking suspiciously like whoever ends up getting cast as the Joker for "Batman Begins 2"?

[Gary Joyce]

Naw that wil happen when the film gets nearer a release date.

[phantom1592]

Wow, that story sounds great. I liked it better when it was called "The Winter Soldier" and happened in Captain America last year. Then again the return of Bucky happened suspiciously soon after the return of Jason Todd. Dude, what if Batman and Captain America are the same book, just put out with different covers?


Yeah, The marvel universe is actually just DC's Earth-616. Cap is really Batman 616 :p

[smoothjokes]

I'm thinking Grant Morrison might go the direction of Jason Todd becoming the Joker. I always thought with his return, it would only be fitting that he would become the Joker, the man he hates the most. He already became the Red Hood to fuck with the Joker, now could you imagine Jason falling into the same chemicals or a dying Joker getting his last bit of revenge. I think it would be awesome.

[Gary Joyce]

i think it will probably be a false joker to start with and maybe Bats will be to blame for this pretenders death.Then the real Joker appears and plays on Batmans guilt and the fact that batman needs the joker as they are linked .

[Effect]

Would it really matter if the Joker was killed and replaced by a new one?

As I understood it the comics never went into the man behind the Joker did they? All he's done is be a villian for Batman correct? Hasn't his level of (evil, etc) been different each time he appears as well? On actions alone over the years, he should have been killed off long ago, and not just by Batman but every single cop in Gotham should have had him on the KOS list. Hell every single person in Gotham, criminal and good citizen a like.

So exactly why would a new Joker be a problem?

I think it might be pretty good. Hasn't the Joker been writen as so evil and fucked up due to his actions that they've kinda backed him into a corner? I think we talked about there on this forum before. A new Joker could get them out of the problem they have with him, by starting fresh.

[PersonaDark]

I'm thinking Grant Morrison might go the direction of Jason Todd becoming the Joker. I always thought with his return, it would only be fitting that he would become the Joker, the man he hates the most. He already became the Red Hood to fuck with the Joker, now could you imagine Jason falling into the same chemicals or a dying Joker getting his last bit of revenge. I think it would be awesome.

I want to hate this idea with the fire of a thousand suns.

But I love it with the same passion. Especially the irony of it.

Arrrrrgghhhh :p

[Effect]

I'd hate Todd as the Joker. I mean the guy has suffered enough. To turn him into the person that actually killed him is like killing someone, then running over them, then burning the body and burying it, only to finally drop a nuke on it for good measure. That's just....oh I don't know what it would actually be, just know it doesn't need to happen at all.

[avro_arrow]

It's hella unlikely this is gonna happen in DiDio's DC. Killing off the Joker seems more like a Death of Superman-ly publicity stunt fit for the nineties.

Grant Morrison wouldn't do that.

[Saberteeth]

I hoping and praying that it's some play on words. THEY CAN'T KILL JOKER!!! The idea is ridiculous! It'd be like having someother guy get half his face melted and calling himself Two-Face nobody would buy it! I'll believe it when i see it and even then i'll stick my head under a pillow and refuse to even look at a Bats comic again! Oh and is the Jason Todd Red Hood story out in trade? Is it a good story? Oh and what exactly is it called?

[Periscope]

Oh and is the Jason Todd Red Hood story out in trade? Is it a good story? Oh and what exactly is it called?

It's out in two trades, the story is called Under the Hood (vol. 1 and 2). The second volume also includes the Batman Annual that explains Todd's return. I think that's right ;) The story is pretty average, okay in some parts, but just as bad in others. I thought Winick wrote a good Black Mask.

Not sure what to think of this Joker tidbit, seems unlikely and is probably either a joke or a play on words. I wouldn't be too bothered by the Joker dying off, so I'll just take a 'wait and see' approach for now.

[Effect]

I thought Under the Hood was pretty good, though felt Vol. 2 was the better of the two. The whole look and understanding of Jason Todd through the eyes of Alfred as he looks back on Jason's time with him and Bruce was well done I felt and touching to understand why it hit Bruce so hard when he died. The ending I felt was great when Jason laid it all out as to just why he was doing what he was doing and what his feelings toward Bruce were.

In the end, Jason really is a tragic figure. Just hope they don't screw up his comeback. Keeping Dick alive messed up him being Nightwing (though he should have gotten his own identify) and if he isn't killed he most likely will go into limbo I think. :(

[Jack Zodiac]

He should have stayed dead. Failing that, he should've been brought back to like by Ra's Alhague and raised to hate Bruce. Rolling with the ridiculous Superboy-Prime retcon, he's a worthless character as a hero, and would serve as a better villain for Batman. I'd rather see him stick around as Red Hood and make himself out to be an anti-hero, but still be a demented asshole. As the Joker, no. The Joker's too classic to kill and replace so menially.

[the goddamn batman]

"The Joker gets shot in the face, point blank in the first issue," Morrison said, saying that a new Joker will appear in his fifth issue, and will fuel a new Batman-Joker dynamic.

I see no mention of Jokers death. I know it's slick but, shot in the face does not mean dead. You'd be amazed.

I'm curious though.

[PrimalScream]

It's hella unlikely this is gonna happen in DiDio's DC. Killing off the Joker seems more like a Death of Superman-ly publicity stunt fit for the nineties.

Grant Morrison wouldn't do that.

Well then again we all thought frank Miller was a genius until ASB&R....:D

[Nefarius]

DC Joker is going to be killed and replaced by the DCAU Joker.;)

[Gary Joyce]

Well then again we all thought frank Miller was a genius until ASB&R....:D

I thought that DKSA was when Frank Miller stopped being a genius in most bat-fans minds.I actually enjoyed DKSA until the ridiculous ending.

Miller is still a genius just from his past works for me.As for ASB&R i'll wait until something actually happens in it before deciding if Miller still has it.

[PastePotPete]

I wouldn't be opposed to an all-new Joker. I mean, the guy's never even had a real name. He's always just been The Joker. I think a really great story could be told about passing on the mantle and I think Morrison can tell it.

That said, I figure this is going to be temporary OR like another poster said, shot in the face does not mean dead.

[PersonaDark]

"The Joker gets shot in the face, point blank in the first issue," Morrison said, saying that a new Joker will appear in his fifth issue, and will fuel a new Batman-Joker dynamic.

I see no mention of Jokers death. I know it's slick but, shot in the face does not mean dead. You'd be amazed.

I'm curious though.

Pulling a Regarding Henry? Total change of personality?

It's a curious idea...but honestly, I'm not exactly enjoying the Joker I saw in Hush Returns and afterwards. The 'sanity' is creepy, but he doesn't FEEL quite right to me.

[literally exaggerated]

Judging by Arkham Asylum, "more sane" is pretty much the exact opposite of the direction Morrison is likely to go. His Joker there was absolutely bonkers. His personality was like this completely chaotic, ambiguous amorphous entity that constantly reinvented itself as the situation demanded, sexually, morally, even in terms of MO (Morrison says this explains why joker vacillates between wacky prankster, calculating killer, total nutjob, etc.)

http://static.flickr.com/12/19015459_0302cbf754_m.jpg

I hope they don't kill joker, either to make Jason Todd or Batman's son the new Joker. it just wouldn't be right. Joker's power derives from his completely chaotic and mysterious nature, he's not like Two-face, a product of Batman's failures, he just is. A force of nature, like an insanity elemental.

[PrimalScream]

What are you dense? are retarded or something batman? Im the goddamn Joker!

[stillanerd]

When reading this topic, I was reminded of something I posted in the "If you could make five changes to Batman" thread a few months back in which I thought of an idea for a "Who Killed the Joker?" story(the relevant part highlighted):

I’d have an arc called “Who killed the Joker?” It would start with the Joker committing some elaborate crime, as usual; only this time, he ends up in a coma. Then, while in the hospital, somebody pulls the plug and kills him. Naturally, Batman becomes the prime suspect, but Bruce begins to wonder, and worries, whether or not Gordon did it. While Batman has to evade the police, clues will begin to pop-up and it would be revealed that not only is the Joker still alive, but that there have been TWO JOKERS FOR YEARS, just as there are two jokers in every deck of playing cards. Inspired by Two-Face, the Joker long ago decided to have a double since being the “Clown Prince of Crime” also meant he needed time to develop elaborate schemes. So he figured two heads were better than one, and the only one he could trust was himself. Remember how A.J. Lieberman seemed to have made the Joker’s “origin” from The Killing Joke official in Gotham Knights? Well that wasn’t the real Joker--that was Oliver Hamment. The real Joker killed Hamment’s wife, dipped him into the same chemical vat, and brainwashed him to the point that Hamment begin to think he was the real Joker. When one Joker was sent to Arkham, the other Joker would plan and prepare the next caper. It ended up working so well, neither of them could tell the other one apart. The real Joker even suggests to Batman “How can you be so sure I was the one who did all those terrible things like cripple Gordon’s daughter, killed his wife, or blew up Jason? Maybe it was the other guy? Maybe the real me died a long time ago.” Oh, and as for who killed the Joker’s double? Well, that would be telling....

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=2742983&postcount=29

My guess is that THIS could be what Grant Morrison means by there being a "New Joker," in that there have in fact been TWO JOKERS all along, and since one of them has ended up getting killed, the other is there to take revenge on Batman for allowing himself to get killed. And I would be tickled as punch if this scenario were the case.

[tjarvis]

I don't know, having read the first issue it seems that Gordan might be who Morrison has in mind to be the new Joker.

[PersonaDark]

Here's a link to the thread on 4-chan, where scans were posted.

http://cgi.4chan.org/co/res/183025.html

[Jack Zodiac]

I don't know, having read the first issue it seems that Gordan might be who Morrison has in mind to be the new Joker.

Oh God, I hope not. I'd really like to not hate Grant Morrison for life.

[BillR]

I don't know, having read the first issue it seems that Gordan might be who Morrison has in mind to be the new Joker.

My exact thought. Gordon might have a relapse. Of course, I doubt it'll last more than an arc...

[Nick Kal]

I doubt it's Gordon...

[the film freak]

I'll wait and see how it plays out. It could either be really horrible or fantastic. Still I think they need to get a fresh take on Joker. I don't know if a new one will help things but it'd be worth a try. And if doesn't work they can just bring the old one back ;)

[PrimalScream]

joker clone?joker and harley having a son? or a sidekick like batmans robin?

[jsg2295]

I'd hate Todd as the Joker. I mean the guy has suffered enough. To turn him into the person that actually killed him is like killing someone, then running over them, then burning the body and burying it, only to finally drop a nuke on it for good measure. That's just....oh I don't know what it would actually be, just know it doesn't need to happen at all.
Actually Jason Todd didnt suffer enough...it was me who suffered after reading that last issue of Nightwing...ugh.

[jackups]

Hmmm interesting But I dont think Dc would let anyone kill the Joker!
I mean they wouldent replace him becasue thats like replacing Superman with martion manhunter in supers costume!
Plus Dc know that the fans would explode !:D

I would be wiling to bet all my money that the proper Joker doesnt die!(Because that would be dumn and it wont happen anyway!)

[CjP]

I would be wiling to bet all my money that the proper Joker doesnt die!(Because that would be dumn and it wont happen anyway!)

I'd take you up on that... back in the day (meaning up until about the seventies), Joker would die at the end of every issue he was in. The key would be staying dead... and you're right, that won't happen.

[CBright]

DC Joker is going to be killed and replaced by the DCAU Joker.;)
I would love this.

[Nefarius]

I would love this.
Who wasn't love this?;)

[the goddamn batman]

I wasn't love this.;)

Really, two Jokers? I don't think thats gonna happen. I bet nothing happens. I bet it's a bunch of build up and then like six pages of 'new Joker' before the arc wraps everything up and leaves it right where it was before it started.:rolleyes:

We'll see what happens.

[jackups]

Yes He maight die but he wont be relpaced or if he does he will come back and kill the other Joker and what is the Dcau Joker??

[Paul Dee]

what is the Dcau Joker??


DC Animated Universe Joker - the one voiced by Mark Hammil in the animated series.

[mr_evilweed]

Hmmmmmmm new Joker..... hmmmmmmmm joker dying..... Hmmmmmmmm grant morisson..... Well it seems we have an extremely unpredictable writer handling the most unpredictable villain of them all. I'd like to give the whole thibg the benefit of the doubt, but it's predictable that joker will survive so I'd be mad if that happened plus I'd really be mad if joker got replaced. I dunno how grant'll pull this one off but if he does I'll never doubt him again

[curefreak]

i dont think anyone could replace joker hes one of a kind.

[jackups]

same yeah the dcau joker wouild be cool but not crazy or murderous enough;)

[Xero Kaiser]

same yeah the dcau joker wouild be cool but not crazy or murderous enough;)

On the other hand, not having a ridiculous body count makes it easier to believe that the cops aren't shooting him on sight

[phantom1592]

On the other hand, not having a ridiculous body count makes it easier to believe that the cops aren't shooting him on sight


hehehe.... The circus doesn't come here anymore since gordon issued the "shoot all clowns" directive.:p

[jackups]

Found out the truth on Wikipedia!
Spoilers:Highlight below!Batman 655:

Batman 655 opens with Joker having poisoned Commissioner Gordon and apparently having beaten Batman to death while children he had taken hostage were forced to watch(the events leading up to this are not shown). He had also shattered the Batsignal(the scene took place on top of the GCPD building). However, the Batman he had beaten was a fake, an ex-cop in a Batman suit. The cop was not dead and pulled a gun. Batman was in time to save Joker but not before the bullet grazed his forehead. Despite the fact Joker was still alive, Batman took out his frustration by throwing him into a dumpster. Joker was sent to Arkham afterwards.
Whew Thank god for that!

[Testament_X]

Could the "new joker" refer to some kind of Infinite Crisis after-effect in which the current joker is undergoing a transformation into the New Earth Joker? Is it a combination of many earth jokers into a new persona? That might be cool...

[Effect]

On the other hand, not having a ridiculous body count makes it easier to believe that the cops aren't shooting him on sight

Exactly. :) Still that's the corner DC has placed and found themselves and the comic Joker in from what I understand. It's to the point now I think that he should be kill on sight to everyone. No trial, just a stright bullet to the head the sooner the better do to his actions.

[jackups]

Yeah you would of thought they would of excuted him for how many people he has killed!

[The Punished]

I don't believe anybody has come up with an idea to replace the Joker if they do kill him. Great archvillians are just not picked from a peach tree anymore. Do you think there are any writers out there begging DC to be the one to kill the main cashcow villian of the Dark Knight?