Saw some of Superman II: Donner Cut (spoilers)

[Sean Whitmore]

Note: This isn't the Comic-Con footage that I understand is floating around.

I was able to see quite a bit of the Donner cut recently, and was shocked at how different it was. I was expecting a nip/tuck job...some extended footage, some of Lester's crappier scenes trimmed, an extra scene or two...but this was a hell of an overhaul. The parts I saw really did make it feel like a completely different film.

I just skimmed the movie looking for new content, as it wasn't an ideal viewing environment, and I don't want to see it for the first time on a tiny black-and-white computer monitor. But I thought I'd post a few tidbits and first impressions for those who are into that sort of thing. Not a review, just a little stream of consciousness-type outline.


Spoilers: (I mean, they don't re-work the whole plot or anything. But there are new scenes and a new ending)

There's a dedication to Chris Reeve at the beginning. To be expected, but still nice to see.

The opening of the movie (before the credits) is mostly made up of scenes from the first film, but with new shots and dialogue scattered throughout.

The film opens with Zod's trial on Krypton, with nothing changed that I noticed. Not until the Phantom Zone disc appears, where we see some extended and slightly disturbing shots of the criminals' bodies being twisted around and stretched out inside the Zone.

We see baby Kal's trip through space juxtaposed with the P-Zone disc drifting aimlessly. At one point the disc actually seems to split into three, before ultimately merging again into one. There's some new Brando voiceover heard within the ship, specifically mentioning Kal's red, yellow, and blue blankets. We also see the spaceship crash-landing and opening up from a new angle.

Various more scenes from the first movie, ending with Superman catching Lex Luthor's missile and throwing it into space. My guess is that this is the second missile (the one that killed Lois before Superman went back in time), although it looked to me to be the same footage from the first movie of him catching the first missile (whew!). Well, whatever, hopefully it'll make more sense when there's time to sit back and enjoy it. Anyway, it's this missile that collides with the Phantom Zone prison and destroys it. No French terrorist plot here. The criminals are freed and Zod flies toward the camera, bellowing, "FREE!"

Cue the credit sequence, which is entirely redone to looks just like the opening credits of the first film. The genuine Williams score plays over it, not the weird synthesized version of it that was there previously. Brando's name is of course added (with Chris getting top-billing this time), and it ends on Donner's sole director's credit.

Next is the footage that was apparently shown in San Diego, with Perry congratulating Lois for her story on Luthor's imprisonment. Then Clark walks in, lovably bumbling as ever, and it gave me such a thrill to see basically "new" Chris Reeve footage. What follows is a pretty funny scene with Lois, pen in hand, looking back and forth between Clark and the picture of Superman in the paper. Genius reporter Lane draws little glasses on the picture of Superman and, guess what: secret's out. Easy as that.

Perry White sends Lois and Clark on the honeymoon hotel scam story, and all the while Lois teases Clark about the fact that she's figured it out. She's SO sure, she leaps out of Perry's office window. Clark runs down to the street faster than the eye can see, keeps Lois afloat with super-breath, then knocks down a sidewalk cover to bounce her none-too-gently into a fruit stand. Thatll show the bitch.

Lois' suspicions are later confirmed when Superman saves the child at Niagra Falls, leading to the scene where she proves Clark is Superman. Anyone who's seen the screen tests on the first Superman DVD will recognize this, and it's a lot funnier and cuter than the "hand in the fire" thing. Unfortunately, they're unable to HIDE the fact that it's screen test footage. It looks like a Clark Kent from five in the past has walked into the room.

I skipped over much of the middle and didn't see anything new until Brando reappears. Basically, holographic Jor-el takes the place of holographic Lara. I did notice that at least some of the "Zod vs. rednecks" scene is there, but hopefully not more than is necessary.

People will likely be glad to hear the "super-kiss" is gone. They'll likely be less glad to hear how Superman makes Lois forget: he flys around the Earth to turn back time. Yeeeeees, again. This actually serves two purposes. Besides making Lois forget, it also deposits the Kryptonians right back in the Phantom Zone. Truth be told, I'd almost prefer the super kiss. The time travel stunt worked for me in the first movie because he was THAT determined to save Lois, and it led to him rejecting Jor-el's teachings for Jonathan's. Here, it just seems like business as usual.

I didn't watch much after that, but there is a final scene in the Daily Planet, different from the goofy orange-juice-squeezing scene.


So, that's that. I was always looking forward to this, but now, I want to see this new cut even moreso. It makes me feel better about having to shell out for a huge boxed set. :)


SEAN

[Patient Boy]

Interesting. I don't know whether I'd put down money for it though.


I like how Lois manages to figure the secret out pretty quickly, although I guess she figures it out in the original cut as well. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about some of the other changes in the film, but if I ever get the chance I'd watch it.

[Ontir]

I've been eager to see this version since I first learned of its existence. I also think now, that part of Singer's vaugeness, as to what of "II" is in continuity, has to do with the public's access to Donner's cut. Given how reverent he is of the first, and that I'm sure he's already seen Donner's restoration, I bet we'll find that his film is more in continuity with Donner's "II," than it is with the "II" we knew. This also leaves us with the strong possibility that Zod can emerge, as Singer wanted, full-power, to maraud the Man of Steel in 2009!

[Patman]

I think it'd be great if Superman II has some retcons in it that makes it much more viable for SR to be a sequel to Donner's Superman II.

[CaptainAwesome]

Is this coming out on DVD somethime? I dont understand how you could have seen it. I would definately like to see it.

Oh, and Sean, the way you describe Superman saving Lois, specifically "that'll show the bitch" is priceless.:D

[Sean Whitmore]

Is this coming out on DVD somethime? I dont understand how you could have seen it. I would definately like to see it.


I saw it thanks to work. Without getting into specifics, the fact that we have it means it won't be long now before it's on DVD.

Word is it'll only be available as part of a huge collection with special editions of the first 4 movies and Superman Returns.



Oh, and Sean, the way you describe Superman saving Lois, specifically "that'll show the bitch" is priceless.:D


Hey, bad behavior can't be rewarded. ;)


SEAN

[Jared]

Well it sounded good, until that part at the end that wraps everything up. Ugh, not again. Once was fine, but come on Donner, what the hell are you thinking?...

[CaptainAwesome]

Well it sounded good, until that part at the end that wraps everything up. Ugh, not again. Once was fine, but come on Donner, what the hell are you thinking?...
I think hes thinking that the budget was cut and his movie was unfinished, so he had to do something with footage that already existed. Personally I think it still beats "super-kiss".

[Sean Whitmore]

I think hes thinking that the budget was cut and his movie was unfinished, so he had to do something with footage that already existed. Personally I think it still beats "super-kiss".


It certainly looks that way.
The shots of the Earth moving are obviously reused, and stuff like the criminals being sucked back into the Phantom Zone is just earlier footage in reverse. It did look like there were new shots of Superman as he's circling the planet, but these could've just been shot for the first movie and unused.


SEAN

[Bouncing Boy]

If I remember correctly, the spinning earth backwards to go back in time was originally scripted to be a part of Superman II, with the whole subplot of Lois dying and Supes having to change it, not being in the movie at all. Donner mentioned it in the commentary for Superman I. I think he said that the Salkinds insisted that the turning back time bit be used at the end of the first movie. Maybe they're going to put out a dirrector's cut of Superman I without the traveling back in time bit to coincide with the release of the Donner Superman II.

[Sean Whitmore]

That's a good point, BB. The first two movies were shot back-to-back for awhile, but as the deadline and budget ran short, they eventually cut their losses and focused solely on completing the first film. So who knows how Donner and Puzo intended for the first one to climax.

(other than the Kryptonians breaking free at the very end followed by a "Superman II coming soon" title)


SEAN

[Ontir]

I think it'd be really cool, if they re-cut Donner's films into one giant DVD edtion that just runs from Krypton, to the world spun back, and had that be the final version.

[CaptainAwesome]

I think it'd be really cool, if they re-cut Donner's films into one giant DVD edtion that just runs from Krypton, to the world spun back, and had that be the final version.
If they showed that in the theater I wonder how many people would die from their blatters exploding.:evilsmile

[Ontir]

That's why a big-@$$, ulit-mondo home-viewing-only DVD/Blueray edition makes sense! :p

[Sean Whitmore]

I saw more of the Donner cut today (quite against my will :p ), and I had a few more thoughts to jot down (some good, some bad).

First, they took out my favorite line of the movie! Hell, one of my favorite lines of any movie! They replaced "Would you care to step outside" with "Haven't you ever heard of freedom of the press?" Blasphemy! :mad:

Here and there, alternate takes of the of existing lines have been used. Zod still says, "Why do you say these things to me? When you know I will kill you for it?" In the theatrical cut, Stamp looked honestly shocked as he said it, and it was hilarious. Now it just sounds like a boring threat.

Luthor gets a lot more lines during his time with the Kryptonians, which is great if you like Hackman's Lex (and I do). His appetite is also bigger, and Australia alone just won't do.

Pretty much all of the really goofy-ass stuff is gone. The hick town scene is gutted for bad jokes. No elasti-S-shield. No dumb sight gags during the super-breath attack.

They also use a wider-angle shot of Superman lifting Zod into the air, making that huge sweat stain under his arm less noticeable. :)

Lots of new shots in Metropolis battle, including Superman throwing what may be the first actual punch in any of the movies. Unfortunately, it doesn't make the fight any longer, as just as many Lester-shot scenes were excised. Merging alll of the Donner and Lester footage would make for a mindblowing fight sequence.

I also saw the theatrical cut with commentary from producers Ilya Salkind and Pierre Spengler. As one would imagine, they have their own memories of the controversies that surrounded the production. Donner just up and decided to leave the series with no ill will, Brando was deemed prohibitively expensive, and Hackman's departure wasn't because of Donner, just because he was busy.

They also thought Lester's stuff was a perfect blend of comedy and suspense. The detachable, expanding S-shield is explained via the old chestnut: "It's comic book." If these four people can fly, why can't they just do anything? They did, however, claim to work closely with actual comic book writers for those scenes.


SEAN

[Steve Brady]

I think the super-kiss was a Silver Age power.

I hope they left intact Zod's obsession with getting everyone to kneel before him...

[Sean Whitmore]

I hope they left intact Zod's obsession with getting everyone to kneel before him...


It's ever-present. :)

"Bow, yield...that stuff closes out a town."


SEAN

[Captain Trips]

It's ever-present. :)

"Bow, yield...that stuff closes out a town."


SEAN


See, Terrence Stamp is so great in that role. Why would they bring back Zod in a sequel to SR? Stamp is Zod!!!

[CaptainAwesome]

See, Terrence Stamp is so great in that role. Why would they bring back Zod in a sequel to SR? Stamp is Zod!!!
Truer words were never spoken.

[ACK!]

I saw it thanks to work. Without getting into specifics, the fact that we have it means it won't be long now before it's on DVD.

Word is it'll only be available as part of a huge collection with special editions of the first 4 movies and Superman Returns.




Hey, bad behavior can't be rewarded. ;)


SEAN

I believe that's been changed. Last I heard, the Reeve films will be an eight-disc set (double disc editions of I through IV) and that the Richard Donner cut of II will be issued separately. The version of II in the eight disc set will be Richard Lester's theatrical cut, the one that many of us grew up on.

I think this is a good way to do it. I bought the previous box set and don't have the desire to buy the entire thing again. Although I was disappointed that only the first movie got the special edition treatment. The other films were just straight transfers in stereo surround. I found them to be comparable to the prior laserdisc versions. Decent quality, but I was expecting 5.1 sound.

[Jared]

Merging alll of the Donner and Lester footage would make for a mindblowing fight sequence.


It sounds to me like select merging together of both entire movies would make for the perfect Superman II.

[Ontir]

I believe that's been changed. Last I heard, the Reeve films will be an eight-disc set (double disc editions of I through IV) and that the Richard Donner cut of II will be issued separately. The version of II in the eight disc set will be Richard Lester's theatrical cut, the one that many of us grew up on.

I think this is a good way to do it. I bought the previous box set and don't have the desire to buy the entire thing again. Although I was disappointed that only the first movie got the special edition treatment. The other films were just straight transfers in stereo surround. I found them to be comparable to the prior laserdisc versions. Decent quality, but I was expecting 5.1 sound.

At this point, I'm not buying anything that isn't BluRay, or HDVD, but I haven't decided which, or if the first, which flavour!

[david r]

Man, I've got to get this!!

[marlonbrando76]

Note: This isn't the Comic-Con footage that I understand is floating around.

I was able to see quite a bit of the Donner cut recently, and was shocked at how different it was. I was expecting a nip/tuck job...some extended footage, some of Lester's crappier scenes trimmed, an extra scene or two...but this was a hell of an overhaul. The parts I saw really did make it feel like a completely different film.

I just skimmed the movie looking for new content, as it wasn't an ideal viewing environment, and I don't want to see it for the first time on a tiny black-and-white computer monitor. But I thought I'd post a few tidbits and first impressions for those who are into that sort of thing. Not a review, just a little stream of consciousness-type outline.


Spoilers: (I mean, they don't re-work the whole plot or anything. But there are new scenes and a new ending)

There's a dedication to Chris Reeve at the beginning. To be expected, but still nice to see.

The opening of the movie (before the credits) is mostly made up of scenes from the first film, but with new shots and dialogue scattered throughout.

The film opens with Zod's trial on Krypton, with nothing changed that I noticed. Not until the Phantom Zone disc appears, where we see some extended and slightly disturbing shots of the criminals' bodies being twisted around and stretched out inside the Zone.

We see baby Kal's trip through space juxtaposed with the P-Zone disc drifting aimlessly. At one point the disc actually seems to split into three, before ultimately merging again into one. There's some new Brando voiceover heard within the ship, specifically mentioning Kal's red, yellow, and blue blankets. We also see the spaceship crash-landing and opening up from a new angle.

Various more scenes from the first movie, ending with Superman catching Lex Luthor's missile and throwing it into space. My guess is that this is the second missile (the one that killed Lois before Superman went back in time), although it looked to me to be the same footage from the first movie of him catching the first missile (whew!). Well, whatever, hopefully it'll make more sense when there's time to sit back and enjoy it. Anyway, it's this missile that collides with the Phantom Zone prison and destroys it. No French terrorist plot here. The criminals are freed and Zod flies toward the camera, bellowing, "FREE!"

Cue the credit sequence, which is entirely redone to looks just like the opening credits of the first film. The genuine Williams score plays over it, not the weird synthesized version of it that was there previously. Brando's name is of course added (with Chris getting top-billing this time), and it ends on Donner's sole director's credit.

Next is the footage that was apparently shown in San Diego, with Perry congratulating Lois for her story on Luthor's imprisonment. Then Clark walks in, lovably bumbling as ever, and it gave me such a thrill to see basically "new" Chris Reeve footage. What follows is a pretty funny scene with Lois, pen in hand, looking back and forth between Clark and the picture of Superman in the paper. Genius reporter Lane draws little glasses on the picture of Superman and, guess what: secret's out. Easy as that.

Perry White sends Lois and Clark on the honeymoon hotel scam story, and all the while Lois teases Clark about the fact that she's figured it out. She's SO sure, she leaps out of Perry's office window. Clark runs down to the street faster than the eye can see, keeps Lois afloat with super-breath, then knocks down a sidewalk cover to bounce her none-too-gently into a fruit stand. Thatll show the bitch.

Lois' suspicions are later confirmed when Superman saves the child at Niagra Falls, leading to the scene where she proves Clark is Superman. Anyone who's seen the screen tests on the first Superman DVD will recognize this, and it's a lot funnier and cuter than the "hand in the fire" thing. Unfortunately, they're unable to HIDE the fact that it's screen test footage. It looks like a Clark Kent from five in the past has walked into the room.

I skipped over much of the middle and didn't see anything new until Brando reappears. Basically, holographic Jor-el takes the place of holographic Lara. I did notice that at least some of the "Zod vs. rednecks" scene is there, but hopefully not more than is necessary.

People will likely be glad to hear the "super-kiss" is gone. They'll likely be less glad to hear how Superman makes Lois forget: he flys around the Earth to turn back time. Yeeeeees, again. This actually serves two purposes. Besides making Lois forget, it also deposits the Kryptonians right back in the Phantom Zone. Truth be told, I'd almost prefer the super kiss. The time travel stunt worked for me in the first movie because he was THAT determined to save Lois, and it led to him rejecting Jor-el's teachings for Jonathan's. Here, it just seems like business as usual.

I didn't watch much after that, but there is a final scene in the Daily Planet, different from the goofy orange-juice-squeezing scene.


So, that's that. I was always looking forward to this, but now, I want to see this new cut even moreso. It makes me feel better about having to shell out for a huge boxed set. :)


SEAN

please, have you any idea if thau have created some kind of villains rule the world scene? or we will have just moon , rangers, houston east, washington?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Well, this certainly explains why the Phantom Zone criminals never escaped while Lois still got knocked up. Not sure how I feel about the double dip with that particular plot twist, but it's certainly a heckuva lot better an idea than the Super-Amnesia Kiss.

[PatrickG]

This was intended to be one movie so I think that double dip isn't there.

Just cut from Superman stopping the first missile to the beginning of this movie.

Donner never actually directed SUPERMAN II but most of the footage that made it into the Donner cut of this film is from when SUPERMAN was planned to be GONE WITH THE WIND length.

The flipside here is that Marlon Brando and Gene Hackman were never involved in SUPERMAN II. Hence why Brando's scenes had to be refilmed and Hackman was replaced with body and voice doubles. Any scenes with them are from the originally planned super-length SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE that was supposed to run from Krypton to Superman's affair with Lois and the fight with the Phantom Zoners.

[Ontir]

No. Donner directed MOST of Superman II. When he came aboard, he looked at the script, and had trouble with it. He brought in Tom Mankiewicz who re-wrote large portions of it, and split it in two. Both parts were being shot simultaneously; but due to Brando falling ill, and I believe some technical problems, during production, they were behind. They were also running out of money, so the decision was made to re-order the shoot, so they could get everything they needed to finish Superman: the Movie, and meet the release date, which would also generate the cash needed to finish II. If it's got Gene Hackman or Marlon Brando in it, it was directed by Donner, because both refused to come back for Lester, who was originally only intended to finish up those final scenes, and assemble Donner's film. The Director's Guild has rules on replacing a director, however, and you can't just fire one, and bring in another, then put the 2nd director's name on the film. It has to be largely directed by that 2nd director. In order to replace Donner's credit, they did re-writes, and re-shoots, significantly changing the film into what was eventually release. The Donner cut is using the original footage he shot, with some re-worked screen-test footage, to complete the original vision.

[Sean Walsh]

I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread yet, but........


......we are all aware that Donner's cut of Superman II is gonna be available on its own, and not just in the big Ultimate Superman set, right?

Not just that, but I-IV will also be sold in their own special Christopher Reeve Collection set too.

[ACK!]

It was always the intention of Donner and the producers to film both movies at the same time. Of course, for reasons stated above, Donner only finished the first one and the rest is a very convoluted history.

In fact, had Donner completed both movies in 1978, the first movie would have ended with the Phantom Zone exploding in space and the villains heading towards earth, followed onscreen with "Coming Next Year: Superman II."

I think Donner or Tom Mankiewicz related the story this way on the DVD of the first movie.

[Ontir]

I just saw the Donner Cut, and absolutely loved it!

I'm amazed just how much better a film, his version is. Lois is smart. There's so much less camp. The Fortress of Solitude sequences are great, and the clothes-change, in the de-powering sequence of the Lester cut finally makes sense - but it's still done better by Donner!

I also still insist that Donner's Superman II is a major part of what Singer is doing. This version allows for Zod to appear, full-power, in his film(s), although I'd really like to see, perhaps in a box-set, the first 2 Donner films minus the time-travel in the 2nd film, because I think it makes "SR" stronger, with the first 2 Singer films.

Given the events of Donner's "II," I'm even more convinced that Lois knows everything in "SR." Take a look at all her interactions with Clark again, thinking that she knows the entire truth about him. It adds so much to an already great film.

[KenK]

I just saw the Donner Cut, and absolutely loved it!

I'm amazed just how much better a film, his version is. Lois is smart. There's so much less camp. The Fortress of Solitude sequences are great, and the clothes-change, in the de-powering sequence of the Lester cut finally makes sense - but it's still done better by Donner!

I've ALWAYS hated the clothes-change! Even as a little kid, I was like, "Why did his clothes change?!? But I'm about to get the Donner Cut from Netflix, so if you say it makes sense, I'll see for myself.

[Ryan K]

I just watched this and have some thoughts:

The screen test footage is a bit distracting, but if nothing else it was interesting to see the alternative approach to the Lois-figures-it-out plot. I kind of miss the original's Paris opening, but that's about the only thing I miss.

The superkiss is gone, the death of the Phantom Zone villains is gone (kinda), and the S-shield throw is gone. All pluses in my book.

The price is the repeat of the Superman turns back time ending. But to be fair to Donner, he comments in the documentary on the DVD, that that was always the ending to Superman II. Somewhere along the way they decided that ending fit better for Superman I and figured when they went back to shoot the rest of S2, they'd figure out a new ending. Course with Donner being fired, they never had a chance to figure that out and when making this cut 25+ years later they really didn't have much choice but to use that ending or Lester's (and apparently Donner wanted to use as little as Lester's footage as possible - they said looking at it hurt him).

I think its a small price to pay for loosing the super kiss anyway. Though the return to the diner scene makes less sense because the bully and the diner owner wouldn't have remembered Clark - oh well.

Overall, I think its a tighter, better film than Lester's cut.

[ARach]

I have heard about this movie since years ago and I really wanted to watch this movie. Unfortunately, this movie has never been released in Region 3, so I -who live in Asia- has never been watched this movie. I have tried to download it in internet for several times but always fail due to the slow internet connection.
I really really want to see SUPERMAN II THE RICHARD DONNER CUT. So I beg to you who can convert this DVD to region 3 and send it to my address!! Send me private e-mail at: arach_spidey@yahoo.com.