Opinions on Superman: Birthright

[Gothos]

After someone mentioned that this 2004 work was a way of subtly altering the Byrne version of the Big S that has predominated at DC for so long, I bestirred myself to check it out.

Sadly, I'm underwhelmed. Despite Waid's affection for the Silver Age Superman that he and I both grew up on, I'd have to say I like this "reimagining" even less than I liked Byrne's. I suppose I'm wishing for the impossible: a Superman-concept that combines a fecundity of imagination (a la Grant Morrison) with somewhat more linear/accessible storylines (and preferably, as little "Marvel soap-opera" as possible).

I'll probably list some of the faults I found later, but for now, (1) what did you think of it, and (2) how do you think it went over with DC fandom?

[Ronnigon]

Wait; I'm confused.

Didn't I already post a response to this?

I distinctly remember talking about how stories like Birthright are limited in the creative license that writers can employ in writing them, especially in cases where some adherence to previously-established continuity is required.

I also said that it's a bit easier for Grant Morrison to inject more creativity into his All-Star Superman stories, because they are essentially Elseworlds-style stories.

Maybe I forgot to hit "post" on my previous response. But I'm definitely hitting it on this one. If it doesn't post now, well... something's definitely up.

[Agentum]

is this question in every forumpart?:D

Maybe i should change opinion here and like Birthright a lot, so he can choose the thread he wants to believe later:)

[Hellcow]

After someone mentioned that this 2004 work was a way of subtly altering the Byrne version of the Big S that has predominated at DC for so long, I bestirred myself to check it out.

Sadly, I'm underwhelmed. Despite Waid's affection for the Silver Age Superman that he and I both grew up on, I'd have to say I like this "reimagining" even less than I liked Byrne's. I suppose I'm wishing for the impossible: a Superman-concept that combines a fecundity of imagination (a la Grant Morrison) with somewhat more linear/accessible storylines (and preferably, as little "Marvel soap-opera" as possible).

I'll probably list some of the faults I found later, but for now, (1) what did you think of it, and (2) how do you think it went over with DC fandom?

Well, it was kinda OK, but I enjoyed Superman for All Seasons a lot more.

No one has ever really written THE Superman Story I want to read. I guess I'll end up writing it myself.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

To my mind, it was a noble failure. What Waid was trying to accomplish was a good thing--merging elements of the classic Superman with the post-Crisis version--but the art really didn't mesh with the story very well and it felt a few issues longer than it should have been. Also, the big threat at the end really didn't work that well.

Had it been three to six issues shorter and been drawn by someone like Carlos Pacheco or Stuart Immonen, it probably would have worked much, much better.

[Cayman]

I enjoyed the first couple of issues but it then grew dull and I never finished reading the TPB.

Cay

[Gothos]

Ronnigon,
Yeah, I just posted it in two forums since I don't imagine everybody reads all the forums here. And since I did get a couple here that weren't on Classics, it seems like it was worth doing.

Best,
Gothos

[Dussan]

I dont get it.

Superman back in the Silver and Golden age was godlike in power, hokey in execution. Byrne seemed to ground him some reality.

[chriskenny]

I liked it, but I wish I loved it. I like that it kind of worked in a more mild-mannered Clark Kent. I never liked the football star guy who never acted nerdy as Clark Kent. Waid brought that Clark-as-disguise element back into the mix, which I enjoyed. I also liked the idea that Lex was from Smallville and was friends with Clark. I liked that Clark's parents were Smallville TV show age.

It was more in line with what I think Superman should be, but it spent a ton of time in Africa, and while it was insteresting it seemed to linger in that plot thread too long. The idea that he had to travel to Africa and get a cultural history lesson to figure out his role in the world was kind of forced. I thought Luthor's scheme was a little weak, though not terrible.

[Alex Dragon]

The main reason I bought it was for the art but even that wasn't enough to keep me interested and I stopped buying it about half way through.

Basically, I thought it was totally unneeded. Everyone knows the orgin and I don't see any reason DC insists revisiting the orgin so often. Waid didn't change enough stuff to warrant doing another orgin. Plus it's annoying trying to figure out which orgin is the "real" on at any given time.

[Kid Kyoto]

In the end Superman fights a giant spider, does anyone know if that's a reference to the famous Kevin Smith story about the aborted Superman movie?

Other than that saw nothing of interest, the superficial changes were, well, superficial and the delivery was not good enough for it to replace Man of Steel in my heart.

[Cayman]

I re-read it this weekend. It's actually quite good.

I love the part where Superman's flying over the stampede of zebras. Excellent.

Cay

[cactusmaac]

It just seemed unnecessary and somewhat pointless, doubly so since Infinite Crisis has allowed writers to redefine Superman without having to worry about continuity headaces for readers.

I thought the soul-vision thing was a terrible addition, but it did lead to one of the best moments in the Lex Luthor: Man of Steel mini.

[Marked Man]

I thought it was strictly average. The "spirit vision" thing a completely moronic and asinine new power, and I thought Waid tried to have his cake and eat it too with his version of Luthor. The two previous canon representations were "Clark and Lex meet as kids in Smallville" and "Superman and Luthor meet as adults in Metropolis." Waid writes it as they were friends in Smallville but now Lex has either forgotten Clark or, more likely, refuses to acknowledge his past in Smallville. This removes the pathos of the original version and it doesn't do much to change the Luthor-Superman status quo of the past 20 years. As others have mentioned, it's overlong and the climax is somewhat weak.

However, I liked a lot of Waid's characterizations. Even though I didn't like the new twist on his history with Superman, I thought Luthor was pretty well written. Lois, Jimmy, and Clark/Superman were also handled well.

[J. Robb]

I thought the series was fairly dull, except for the final issue which was pretty cool. The art was bland, the new vision of Krypton was very vague and lifeless.

I think what most disappointed me, though, was that the early issues just seemed poorly put together. The pacing seemed off, the way some issues suddenly ended made it seem like there was some story-shuffling going on, and on a few pages the dialogue didn't even seem to really match what was happening in the panels. It felt the comic version of a b-movie to me.

Even if you disagreed with the whole "Man of Steel" revamp, I think everyone has to agree it was a tightly paced, clearly told story and workmanlike effort. I didn't find "Birthright" to be any of those.

[Lorendiac]

I thought it was strictly average.

I just bought and read the TPB a month or two ago, and that was pretty much the way I felt.

The "spirit vision" thing a completely moronic and asinine new power,

I hate to admit it, but I seem to have already forgotten the scene in which Superman had "soul vision" or "spirit vision" or whatever. I've seen people complaining about it, but it seems to have made very little impression upon me, the one and only time I actually read "Birthright" from start to finish.

and I thought Waid tried to have his cake and eat it too with his version of Luthor. The two previous canon representations were "Clark and Lex meet as kids in Smallville" and "Superman and Luthor meet as adults in Metropolis." Waid writes it as they were friends in Smallville but now Lex has either forgotten Clark or, more likely, refuses to acknowledge his past in Smallville. This removes the pathos of the original version and it doesn't do much to change the Luthor-Superman status quo of the past 20 years. As others have mentioned, it's overlong and the climax is somewhat weak.

I admit I had trouble understanding the point of the bit where Lex refuses to acknowledge knowing Clark back in high school. I didn't see it as a huge flaw in the story, but it did seem like an unnecessary piece of confusion. My general feeling was that I couldn't see why Waid's version was any sort of "huge improvement" over the version of Superman's (and Lex's) origins that had been holding up pretty well for the past 20 years. As you mention, except for monkeying around with retconned details of how they "first met" and later how they "first clashed violently as adults," it all seems to have pretty much left the subsequent Status Quo alone, so why bother?

[Alan2099]

Everytime I hear about Superman's "Soul-Vision" I can't help but picture Superman with an afro and gold chains talking about his soul-vision with a Barry White-like voice.

[Marked Man]

Yeah, the "spirit vision" is very, very small aspect of the story. In fact, if I recall correctly, it is only mentioned in the Africa section. I think Clark sees a lion die and watches it's "essence" or something fade away. The fact that it plays hardly any role in the story just highlights how unnecessary it is. If you're not going to use this previously unmentioned power, why even introduce it into a character's past? Like many things in Birthright, it was completely superfluous.

[botch]

less marvel soap opera? what is it with dc readers, it's as if they WANT their comics to be bland and campy.

Birthright was fantastic, a great comic that i enjoyed and put a smile on my face. Ton of problems but it was a great comic.

as for the art, amazing. What I notice is that DC fans are so used to bad art that when they get good art they look at it and say 'hmmm that's strange, looks terrible'. Leinel Francis Yu is an incredible artist, in birthright and especially his wolverine vs hulk series.

[nightscream]

I just bought all 12 issues on ebay recently, and I am awaiting it arrival. From reading this post it seems that people have mixied feelings on the storyline. Could I get a review from a Hardcore superman fan and a review from just a regular comic reader.

[botch]

well it all depends on regular comic reader. i'm sure the opinion from someone who reads the 'elite' comics like y the last man, 100 bullets, stuff by brian k vaughn etc, generally seem to like it. as does the average comic reader. it seems that many hardcore superman fans think it's ok, but due to the fact it screws up with continuity(which has of course now been fixed) they don't like it, you have to remember that these people generally read bad comics all the time. superman hasn't exactly had many great nor even good comics.

[AdoraSpintriae]

I like it because it's about Clark. There's just not enough good stories about his humanity and conflicting identities. A friend kind of summed it up when she said, "It's what Smallville only wishes it could be".

[dancj]

That thread got confusing and schizophrenic there until I realised that nightscream and botch both have the same avatar!

[The Foreigner]

I could care less if it "changed the status quo," if any of the ideas it presented were "superfluous," or if it was a "huge improvment" or not. I'd rather judge the story on its own, and I personally felt it was very enjoyable. Great and unique art from Yu (Nice to see something new), well rounded characters (I liked that we get to see Clark have a real interest and talent in journalism before the Planet), solid action scenes, and plenty of other memorable moments.

I'd recomend it.

[Alan2099]

less marvel soap opera? what is it with dc readers, it's as if they WANT their comics to be bland and campy.
I just want imaginative and fun. This was neither.

[Kilgore Trout]

I just want imaginative and fun. This was neither.

Agreed.

But then again, neither are Superman’s regular comics... :rolleyes:

And I have to say it: The thing that wreaked the story for me was the over-inked scratchy lines and angular persuasions that passed for art on virtually every page...

I enjoyed Yu’s take at first and saw it as unique and different, but a few issues later it felt and looked like someone spilled an ink well on it...

I mean, the book is FILLED with black ink blotches and spray that serve no purpose save to muddy up an already muddy picture…

If they had gone with a more mainstream artist I believe the series would have been better served...

Take the art, throw in the too long Africa adventure, couple it with that Kryptonian invasion, overload it with WAY TOO MANY contemporary references and you have the makings of an ELSEWORLDS story...

NOT a retelling of the origin story...

[Lorendiac]

Agreed.

But then again, neither are Superman’s regular comics... :rolleyes:

Zing!

(You don't believe in pulling your punches, I take it? :D)

[Kilgore Trout]

(You don't believe in pulling your punches, I take it? :D)

Well, they're not!

I think they are mostly uninspired, unimaginative or depressing...

Sometimes, they are all three...

And you know what else since I’m not pulling my punches?

Fuck Clark Kent...

He needs to go away for about 10 fucking years or until comic book print becomes too difficult for me to read...

I wanna read and look at SUPERMAN in SUPERMAN comics... Is that a crime?

Clark Kent gets too much airtime and that’s because he’s STILL married to Lois...

DC gave an Infinite Crisis and EVERYBODY came except Superman...

Batman got niceness...

And Superman got to keep every bit of broken shit that has attached itself to him over the past 15 years including the marriage that effectively destroyed the Clark/Superman persona’s...

Which is why we now read SUPERClark comics...

Okay, I’m done...

Anyway, like someone else above said, there was too much Clark Kent in BIRTHRIGHT...

[nightscream]

Well, they're not!

I think they are mostly uninspired, unimaginative or depressing...

Sometimes, they are all three...

And you know what else since I’m not pulling my punches?

Fuck Clark Kent...

He needs to go away for about 10 fucking years or until comic book print becomes too difficult for me to read...

I wanna read and look at SUPERMAN in SUPERMAN comics... Is that a crime?

Clark Kent gets too much airtime and that’s because he’s STILL married to Lois...

DC gave an Infinite Crisis and EVERYBODY came except Superman...

Batman got niceness...

And Superman got to keep every bit of broken shit that has attached itself to him over the past 15 years including the marriage that effectively destroyed the Clark/Superman persona’s...

Which is why we now read SUPERClark comics...

Okay, I’m done...

Anyway, like someone else above said, there was too much Clark Kent in BIRTHRIGHT...

Wow!! That was heartfelt.

[AdoraSpintriae]

If a little redundant.

You could take Lois and Clark out of the picture and Supes would still be a boring dick. Because he's Supes, the greatest Gary Stu ever written in the history of modern literature.

[cactusmaac]

Kilgore:

What do you think of All-Star Supes?

[Kilgore Trout]

Kilgore:

What do you think of All-Star Supes?

I think its Super, man.

For my tastes its pretty much THE version of Superman; an older, supremely (;)) confident, relaxed, curious and highly intelligent Superman, sure and secure of his place and purpose...