House of M vs. Civil War (so far)

[Betabox]

So far which do you think is a better crossover?

[Bobster777]

Oh man, not even close, so far. At this point, I was already hating the tie ins for HOM (though I loved the main story). As of this moment, I am loving every bit of CW, from the main story to the tie ins.

[Sam T.]

Civil War by far...

but I did love House of M.:D

[Young Avenger]

The Speedball story in the Frontline mini alone is better than House of M as a whole.

[Dirk Anger]

Civil War has been infinitely more all-encompassing than HoM up to this point. Also, by issue three of HoM it was still very tough to fully grasp what exactly was going on. Civil War feels more like a clearly defined, universe-spanning event by issue three.

[Alan2099]

It's a tie for me.

One of them was awful and the other really really sucks.

I'll leave it u[p to you to decide which is which.

[Soundrave]

Civil War is far from perfect. I don't think Millar knows the meaning of the word "characterization," for instance. That, or he never read half the characters he's currently writing about.

That said, Civil War has blown House of M out of the water. More happened in the first issue of Civil War than in House of M's entirety. There's no denying that Millar can write good action, even if the action makes little sense.

[Expletive Deleted]

House of M was much, much less intrusive, and I'm always a fan of alternate reality shenanigans.

[pharoahe22]

A lot of people didn't like House of M. Persenally, I thought it was well-written and well-drawn. The thing I think made most people not like House of M is because it was wayyyyy over-hyped. It was a B-grade story, when it was made out to be an A-grade story that was gonna be as big as Secret Wars. The thing is, after it's all said and done, it looks like Civil War WILL be as big as Secret Wars if not bigger. I think they're doing a great jobs with Civil War so far, even though some of the characterization is a little off. Some of the heroes seem to be acting a bit outta character...and Millar's made me pretty much hate Spider-man and his cockiness right now lol. But I actually expected a bit of that from Millar after reading Wolverine, who he wrote as a hack and slash brawler with no real skill ( I liked the story over-all for the action and the plot, and it was a lotta fun to read...really blockbuster, but it had some of the worst Wolverine lines ever, and really down-played his skill. He kinda seemed like he was a biker brawler with claws and healing.) Civil War is definetly better than his run on Wolverine, AND House of M. AND, the Civil War tie-ins have all been pretty damn good, as the HoM tie-ins were pretty forgetable.

Overall, I rate it like this:

Civil War: "A-" so far...What they've done so far is really exciting to me, which makes me overlook the bit of characterization that's off.
Millar's run on the Ultimates: B+
House of M: "B"
Millar's run on Wolverine: "C+"

[lordlad]

i think House Of M is just way overhyped too.....it's a decent story though and shouldn't be a major crossover in the first place. I heard Bendis in one of wordballoon's bendistapes interview whereby he stated House Of M was originally just an arc for the New Avengers to deal to Wanda.........but eventually the editors make it went overboard.

[1WEBHEAD]

Civil War by far.Great art and Better story and the pacing is perfect.I think it lives up to the hype its been given.

[agrich]

House of M was much, much less intrusive, and I'm always a fan of alternate reality shenanigans.

I kind of go the other way. I love What If and most alternate reality stories, but in the case of House of M it was hard for me to get overly invested in a universe that I knew was going to be erased at the end of it. Besides the fact that it seemed like half of House of M was just a bunch of heroes going around making other heroes remember who they really were...it really wasn't as solid a mini. Maybe the reason Civil War is 7 issues is that they agreed that House of M was at least one issue too long.

[Violently Apathetic]

Civil War. House of M had some good moments (and the Fantastic Four mini was a guilty pleasure) and some lovely art but really it just kind of fell flat for me. Civil War just feels more status altering and exciting to me, despite the OCCness of some of the cast. So far I'm enjoying it more than IC too....

[Sparda]

Civil war is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than House of M. House of M is more like some alternate universe thing that wasn't that interesting but Civil war catches my attention though.

[Expletive Deleted]

I kind of go the other way. I love What If and most alternate reality stories, but in the case of House of M it was hard for me to get overly invested in a universe that I knew was going to be erased at the end of it.I tend not get invested in stories, so that really wasn't an issue for me. I just like worldbuilding, and I thought Bendis did a fairly good job of exploring his universe (if nothing else).Besides the fact that it seemed like half of House of M was just a bunch of heroes going around making other heroes remember who they really were...it really wasn't as solid a mini.It was poorly executed. No argument here. I just think it's the lesser of two evils.

[Wind-Breaker]

I voted House of M, now I know I got a X-books biased but, I just like the whole concept of Wanda going nuts. I'm always a sucker for heroes, turning into mega powerfull villians. Her magic powers seemed to rival that of Warlock in his prime. Civil War I love as well, but as much impact it may have on the MU prior to it, I still think it will pail in comparison to the fact that majority of mutants depowered after the House of M.

[Effect]

I really liked House of M to be honest. It had some good moments and I like "what ifs". :) Still I like that I didn't have to read a lot of tie ins to get the main story, just the House of M series. Though the end result was directly aimed mutants though. Which is actually fine since I'm really enjoying X-Factor and like Uncanny X-men and New Excalibur and was reading New Avengers at the time so I was reading series that lead into it. So on the whole I thought the event was good.

Civil War is exciting but there appears to be so much going on that I find it hard to decide what is more interesting. The big events or the personal problems and actions of Peter Parker/Spider-man and his title. So far I'm enjoying that, mainly the X-men's Decimation situation more. I guess the inital excitement of Civil War has died down for me and really I just want it to be over so things get back to normal adventures instead of the worse being brought out in everyone, well mainly the pro side.

So going to have to vote for House of M in terms of my enjoyment and it's results.

[Will.S]

I dunno it's hard to pick.

I guess I'm gonna lean more towards Civil War because it's more rooted in the regular MU without the changed reality but House of M was a very enjoyable experience for me and I think it's kind of odd is that people still complain about the pacing even with all the issues out collected and traded.

Personally the whole thing reads beautifully fully collected and ALOT of what was shown during that series reflects on the happenings of the current MU so I think it was pretty influential at the same time.

[Faded]

Civil War wins by a landslide.

Its first issue alone was better than House of M in its entirety.

McNiven's art is gorgeous and eye grabbing, the story is wonderfully told and exciting, and of course there isn't a "No More Superheroes" reality wave...yet. :evilsmile

[agrich]

I think it's kind of odd is that people still complain about the pacing even with all the issues out collected and traded.


I don't see why. I bought the whole thing at once after the fact and felt the pacing was poor. My problem was that a lot happened in #1 and #7-#8, and the whole middle part was stretched out far, far more than it needed to be. Surely you've seen a long movie where you felt it dragged in the middle and there could have easily been about a half hour cut out of it without losing any of the story -- and making the entire movie better.

Whether I wait a month between issues or not, I still want a story to proceed at a good pace, and for me House of M didn't.

[ocelotrevs]

Cival War, it's been great so far. And makes far more sense.

[Magneto Rocks]

Definitely Civil War.

The problem is that at the end of the day, the fall-out from House of M is far too X-Men-centric. And I was incredibly disappointed by how few major mutants lost their powers. And some of those who did... Iceman- oh wait, he actually never lost 'em. Quicksil.... hang on. MAGNE... nope, not that either.

In short, most of Marvel's main titles continued on, exactly as they had before House of M. Spidey, which had the potential to be changed by his Gwen Stacy bit... wasn't... changed...

Civil War has already advanced the X-Men situation left over from House of M
It has brought back a major character who is one of my favourites
It has an excellent basis
It has RADICALLY changed Spider-Man's life
It has RADICALLY changed the foundations of the Marvel Uni itself
It challenges the mind a little more
It is written by a FAR better writer
It is illustrated by a FAR better artist

And that's just the main series!

Basically, in the end, almost every related major title is going to be dramatically- or even subtly- changed by CIvil War. The only possible exception is the X-Books, and X-Men fans can hardly complain when they basically had a crossover just for them last year.

[Will.S]

I don't see why. I bought the whole thing at once after the fact and felt the pacing was poor. My problem was that a lot happened in #1 and #7-#8, and the whole middle part was stretched out far, far more than it needed to be. Surely you've seen a long movie where you felt it dragged in the middle and there could have easily been about a half hour cut out of it without losing any of the story -- and making the entire movie better.

Whether I wait a month between issues or not, I still want a story to proceed at a good pace, and for me House of M didn't. I guess I would just have to disagree with you.

Personally I didn't see any of the proverbial "fat" that needed to be cut away as I thought every single issue had purpose. If not for total immersion then to advance several plots and the fact that there are a ton of characters being juggled around which in itself is not an easy task to coordinate. In fact I think HoM and CW have an equally huge cast of core characters that needed the extra issues or pages to flesh out their own agendas and situation.

The problem is that at the end of the day, the fall-out from House of M is far too X-Men-centric. And I was incredibly disappointed by how few major mutants lost their powers. And some of those who did... Iceman- oh wait, he actually never lost 'em. Quicksil.... hang on. MAGNE... nope, not that either.

In short, most of Marvel's main titles continued on, exactly as they had before House of M. Spidey, which had the potential to be changed by his Gwen Stacy bit... wasn't... changed... I think the main problem was that House of M hype built it up so much that we couldn't help but expect much bigger sweeping changes rather than what they really had in mind which was a major crossover between the X-Universe and the Avengers that would have big repurcussions for both sides after all was said and done.

Having said that while I am disappointed that depowerments didn't stick as much as they really should have been, the status quo for certain characters have turned much more interesting such as Quicksilver, Magneto, Polaris, and all the other mutants that were changed from Scarlet Witch's mega hex.

Civil War has already advanced the X-Men situation left over from House of M
It has brought back a major character who is one of my favourites
It has an excellent basis
It has RADICALLY changed Spider-Man's life
It has RADICALLY changed the foundations of the Marvel Uni itself
It challenges the mind a little more
It is written by a FAR better writer
It is illustrated by a FAR better artist While I don't think the writer/artists of each crossover are particularly better than the other (as I think both of each are of equal talent) I would argue that House of M as a whole seeded alot of these ideas before they came into fruition.

For example:

Increased presence of Sentinel activity being carried over. They served a big purpose in the House of M reality as part of SHIELD and with Sentinel Squad One, X-Men and the 198 they have become a bigger presence. X-Men: Civil War will continue this in a big way.
The idea of the House of M underground resistence trying to topple the gov't and change the MU back to where it was. Civil War continues this with the registration/anti-registration side.
Spider-Man's identity being publicly known. House of M established this during that reality and showed alot of potential as far as showing how outing yourself will have big consequences with the HoM Spidey being persecuted by the dominant mutant population. Again Civil War continues this idea but to a bigger extent with repurcussions that won't go away as fast as a mind wipe.
Scarlet Witch gives both teams a moral dilemma that also cannot be just punched away and had to be dealt with with her powers going out of whack and changing the world. While this was less political than the CW stuff it still lends itself to the interesting aspects of House of M as well as the situation Luke and Spider-Man find themselves in alongside the interesing conversations Logan and Jessica Drew had about the whole thing.

House of M provided a springboard to Ms. Marvel giving her a new direction and purpose as a solo act.

[Chiasm]

Right now Civil War but Marvel gives me confidence (and this isn't a good thing) that when all is said and done that HoM will be seen as a much better story. Thats because (and I really hope I'm wrong on this) that I think Civil War will end up with some big threat causing both the registration and anti registration camps to band together to defeat this new menace. And then everyone will be friends again and this will all be a forgettable storyline that doesn't matter in the long run. While HoM has completely failed to fulfill all the potential of "no more mutants" it at least tried to have a long lasting impact.

[Billy Parker]

Civil War is LIFE!

[ocelotrevs]

After reading House of M #3 and then Civil War, my choice of Civil War has been cemented.
We were still finding out what was happening, at this point, in Civil War we've already had a few major throwdowns, and some meaty stuff.

[ghostrider666]

Civil War, by FAR.

[Archer]

Definitely Civil War.

I'm an X-junkie and I liked the concept of House of M a lot more, but I felt it didn't come close to living up to it. Exploration of why Wanda and Pietro would do what they did amounted to a couple of pages whereas running around zapping assorted heroes took up 3/4s of the story (or at least that's what it felt like).

Random stuff like Xavier being presumed dead but his grave being missing, and 6 months later in a totally different mini we discover he was getting drunk in Wales the whole time, with no explanation (or at least that's what it felt like).

Minis that were basically pointless (eg the Spider-Man mini - his whole life being turned upside down on him etc, but in the main House of M mini he was exactly the same as in the regular MU) or totally nonsensical (I read the Iron Man mini over and over and to this day I have no idea wtf it was all about).

Crossover issues that for the most part had absolutely nothing to do with either House of M or the book's regular stories - I bought them and was left with a big fat "WHY?"

A massive world-changing event that basically changed and contributed nothing (most of the current stories in X-books would make perfect sense with 16 million mutants in the world, or more so - and some stuff like the refugee/prison camp in the X-Mansion's ground just makes no sense at all).

I didn't find the core House of M story satisfying or very interesting of itself, and the only way it's effected the MU is that Magneto is now MIA and is-he-or-isn't-he-powered (but he was hiding out on Genosha not doing much before anyway, so not a big deal); Scarlet Witch is missing (but she was in a coma before anyway, so not a big deal); Quicksilver is a bad guy (who only does anything in a mini and X Factor, hardly core books); and Cyclops doesn't trust the newly depowered Xavier (but this issue isn't discussed, and Xavier is still running around leading a team so nothing new there).

Civil War on the other hand - so far the mini has been immediately gripping to me, and the story is moving fast enough that I'm prepared to accept or ignore what feel like gaps in logic. Front Line has been very good too, unlike House of M minis it feels "important". The format of several shorter stories in the one book works great as well and keeps the pace up. The tie-in issues I've read have all seemed relevant both to ongoing plots and Civil War itself. The only thing that's made me go "huh?" is Civil War: X-Men.

That said - unlike House of M I haven't been getting all the tie-in issues or minis, so maybe I'm just not getting so burnt out on it. Also I don't yet know what the fall-out is going to be - but Civil War is doing a much better job of House of M at convincing me there won't be a giant reset button, and that the changes will be meaningful, so even if it all gets forgotten about I still care about the stories and characters *now*.

[Siddon]

Its tough but I give the edge to House of M... based on the first three issues.

House of M didn't really suck until the second act but got itself together for the final act, Civil War has 4 more issues to go.

Issue 1 The Life and Death of Wanda A+
Issue 2 The House of M B-
Issue 3 Wolverine vs the House of M with guest star HAWKEYE A+
Issue 4 Hey Look its exposition and Layla Miller D
Issue 5 Exposition plus Xaviers death F
Issue 6 Exposition plus SOMETHING F
Issue 7 New team vs House of M A+
Issue 8 New world C-

Civil War

Issue 1 Hey look all those rumors happened in Issue 1 B+
Issue 2 We just unmasked Spider-man and we are giving you a nice little mystery A+
Issue 3 FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT oh yeah and Thor's back C+

The thing is that House of M would have been so much better had they decompressed it and just bookended the story with 64 page issues.

[Dustin]

House of M was good... but I say Civil War!!!!:cool:

[Micro]

At this point I'd say Civil War, but that could change depending on how it ends. However, neither Civil War or House of M can compare to the original Age of Apocalypse crossovers.

[Babylon23]

I'm not a huge fan of either series, but Civil War is still infinitely superior to HoM. I really disliked HoM for all of the reasons that have been put forward in both this forum and others. I think Civil War's characterisation is a little off, but the story is far more interesting, the premise is better, and the pacing and structure work.

[The Shadow]

Civil War by far...

but I did love House of M.:D
Same here on both counts.

[Punisher]

I liked House of M but Civil War and all it's tie ins are so well written and are flowing together so well I have to pick it as being better. Civil War in my opinion is the best crossover Marvel's done in as long as I can remember.

[old_schoola]

Civil War definitely,it seems to have more potential for major changes than house of M.It also is tying together better all the writers involved seem to be making a real effort to make it flow!!!!

[TommyV]

House of M was a lesson in tedium and an obvious sales gimmick that resulted in nothing. Civil War, on the other hand, is relevant, dynamic and exciting. I don't think they can even be compared in a "which is better" capacity - they're in entirely different leagues.

[scottv]

I am going to go with Civil War because it is awesome, but when I read HoM it was nice because I bought it as a TPB and it was easy to read

[Phrozen]

House of M was long and boring.

Civil War can't seem to get straight what the SHA actually does or doesn't do.

[Davidai]

I voted for Civil War basically because it is IMO a better story then HoM. Civil War grabs me and the art compared to HoM is much better. I was also dissappointed on how HoM ended with basically everything gettin' whipe, and how little mayjor mutants lost there powers. :C. Hopefully Civil War ends up with alot more "surprises" then Hom. I also hope Wanda doesn't come back or someone comin' back to whipe the whole Civil War event from ever happenin' or just whipin out Spidey's unmaskin'.

[Dark Soul # 7]

I like What ifs as much as the next guy. But I don't want an entire summer event that will supposedly change the Marvel Universe forever to revolve around it.

Anyway I pretty much ignored HoM, don't read New Avengers and have fallen out of the X-verse part of Marvel. The only HoM tie-in I read was the New Thunderbolts and even that one sucked and didn't bring anything new to the t-bolts story.

My point is that I could pretty much ignore HoM and still follow my favorite Marvel comics without getting confused or anything, it makes me very happy that the Spider-man writers seem to have skipped the crap that was supposed to change Spidey's life forever in HoM. The same thing can not be said for Civil War.

Here just about every major terran superhero has a part in the story, big or small. And it's done in a really coherent and overall good way. Civil War is more thought-provoking than your standard superhero summer event and so far it seems like it will actually have lasting effects on the Marvel Universe.

With stuff like Civil War and Annihilation it's a great time to be a Marvel fan.

[mybotisgone]

House of M aftermath turned out bad really bad. Decimation Din't do so well.:( I can't say for Civil War's aftermath. I have to what for that one.

[Markavian]

The Award for best Mini is ...CIVIL WAR!! :: Appluase as Tony Stark rises to accept the Award !!:::D

[Dark Soul # 7]

The Award for best Mini is ...CIVIL WAR!! :: Appluase as Tony Stark rises to accept the Award !!:::DI say it's rigged. Planet Hulk and Annihilation weren't even considered.

[-S-Man-]

I really loved House of M (and lead-up Avengers: Disassembled) which sent me on a head trip...Peter with short hair, Uncle Ben still alive, MJ and Tony (shiver runs down spine). Oh and Logan and Mystique uew.

But I like Civil War. It got me back into comics. The story is even better...

[Will.S]

....it makes me very happy that the Spider-man writers seem to have skipped the crap that was supposed to change Spidey's life forever in HoM.I don't recall hearing anything about Spidey's life being forever changed by House of M.

[mybotisgone]

If you ask me I think House of M was a train wreck.

[Magneto Rocks]

Someone rated issue by issue so I decided to do the same....

HOUSE OF M ONE:

Avengers want to save Wanda. X-Men want to kill them. It's not really explained why they would behave in this totally out of character way considering they have faced countless others with similar powers, and she is a friend... but... y'know... they do. Anyway, nice little argument, then what everyone knew was coming. Good set-up.

A-

CIVIL WAR ONE:

The 'You knew it would happen but let's do it anyway'. This issue was almost 100% spoiled before it came out. Didin't stop it from being great. We get some nice arguments on both sides, brilliant art, excellent stuff at Stamford etc. But the crown jewel of the issue was Cap versus SHIELD. Millar proved why he is a master who should always be writing a book with Cap in it and gives us a badass showdown. The last page was brilliant too; sets the whole thing up perfectly.

A

HOUSE OF M 2:

The 'Let's take a tour of the new world' issue. The problem is, in a way this feels like it should have been explored in tie-ins. While it's nice to see all these characters being different, it would be far better if we got any real plot advancement. Bit of a wasted issue.

B

CIVIL WAR 2:

Now we're moving into more unfamiliar territory. The issue continues to set up the 'war', but now we don't know what will happen next. We see some nice little scenes of both sides growing and fighting. THe mystery of '42' is born. Some lovely little exposition parts. Then we get a chase.... Millar demonstrates AGAIN why he should always be writing Cap, and we see Cap's Resistance. But then- hang on, what's the.... *ALERT. THE INTERNET JUST CRACKED IN TWO.*

A+

HOUSE OF M 3:

The 'Wolverine growls gruffly at people while we set up the premise of the series' issue. So. It seems the main character of House of M will be.... Wolverine. Automatically puts it down a bit. This issue was pretty good. Wolverine runs around a little, we all groan as we realise Bendis has taken this oppurtunity to make his pet favourite Cage into a major player and then comes the end of issue 3 which was... well apparantly everyone else was very shocked but I wasn't, not even slightly. It's an alternate reality, I expected this.

B+

CIVIL WAR 3:

Starts off by ticking off players from the list. In a classy move, Marvel are actually explaining why all the non-involved characters AREN'T involved, more than we usually get. After a mini tour of the Marvel Universe- and being told that Cap is still doing what he's doing, we're off to the newly dubbed Secret Avengers in their little cafe. A nice little exposition scene, then they race off. Millar proves (just, y'know, in case anyone doubted it) yet AGAIN why he should always be writing a Cap book... and we get a badass brilliant battle that takes up more of the issue. The long-awaited Cap/Iron Man fight... is great because while it seems short and one-sided, it SHOULD be. There is no way Cap (even MILLAR's Cap!) can take down Iron Man and Millar knows it. But hang on... codename wha? We knew he'd be back this ish but... PRO-REGISTRATION? **THE INTERNET JUST CRACKED IN HALF**

A*

Course after that, House of M went into total crap, a brilliant 7th issue and a disappointing 8th. Let's hope CW doesn't repeat.

[Starkicker]

Civil War is by far the better series but there is one glaring benefit that House of M had.
The core mini in HoM was all you needed to read, it was totally self contained. The Civil War story is told in the tie ins while with HoM the ties in just added to the world.

[guy2]

civil war is way better. Even the tie-ins are better the the House of M tie-ins

[Dark Soul # 7]

I don't recall hearing anything about Spidey's life being forever changed by House of M.Well, they said that it was supposed to be turned upside down. But none of the regular Spider-man writers picked it up. So you can be happy without it.