Marvel is so great that fans are loving things they used to hate!

[Golon9977]

Massive crossovers and bringing back the dead. These are two things that fans complain about constantly. Right now, there are two crossovers (Civil War and Annihilation) going on in the MU. Capt America brought back Bucky, a character that has been dead for ages. But I have not seen that many complains about these events. Granted, when the rumours of Bucky's return were running around, fans disliked the idea and some even said they are dropping Cap's title, if not the MU altogether. Yet they still remained as fans. True testament that the MU is on the right track with its stories :)

[Chiasm]

Joe Q is that you?

[Magneto Rocks]

^ ^ ^ - Lol

But seriously, he is right. Despite the complaints, Marvel is better than they have been since the 80s. Civil War is the best crossover they've ever done, and they are getting better at resurrections. But to be fair, credit must go to Ed Brubaker for making Bucky's return as awesome as it was.

[Carlton Donaghe]

Marvel is so great that I hardly buy them anymore! Marvel is so great that most of the comics I buy these days are DC!

[marshal99]

Marvel is so great that I hardly buy them anymore! Marvel is so great that most of the comics I buy these days are DC!

Surprisingly , me too. But then , i'm cutting down on my DC too and soon will probably be dropping off completely.

[Acrosurge]

Marvel is so great that I hardly buy them anymore! Marvel is so great that most of the comics I buy these days are DC!Bully for you, but you're missing out on some good stories.

Storytelling folks. That's what it is all about. Crossovers and hype-events don't make a company. Characters don't make a company. Giving Superman or Spider-Man a power-of-the-week doesn't make a company. Writers and good stories make a company. Slott, Griffen, and Brubaker (to name a few) are doing this well.

[Expletive Deleted]

Some love what's going on right now.

Some hate what's going on right now.

Some make sweeping generalizations about the people who fall on the other side of that line, impugning their taste, character, and intelligence.

To ensure the continued existence of this thread, don't be in that last group.

[Cephus]

Marvel is so great right now that I just dropped half of the regular titles I was buying. Civil War is utter crap, the whole concept is ridiculous and we all know, from experience, that it'll be retconned out of existence in the very near future.

If you want to waste your money, feel free. Me, I'm going primarily indy at the moment, after having dropped DC for the same reason. I'm sick of these stupid crossovers and events.

[Haunt]

Massive crossovers and bringing back the dead. These are two things that fans complain about constantly. Right now, there are two crossovers (Civil War and Annihilation) going on in the MU. Capt America brought back Bucky, a character that has been dead for ages. But I have not seen that many complains about these events. Granted, when the rumours of Bucky's return were running around, fans disliked the idea and some even said they are dropping Cap's title, if not the MU altogether. Yet they still remained as fans. True testament that the MU is on the right track with its stories :)


actually, i read more DC than i do Marvel; at the moment. and i still hate the things that i hated in the past. but, like always, there are 1 or 2 marvel titles that are well-written and geared towards me; hardly threadworthy.

[SMKSPY]

ah Marvel and DC are both just ok--not as excited about comic as I use to be during the early 00s, but both companies are doing what they've always done put out both hits and misses. I just don't understand the excitement. I feel like we all should be breaking out into song.

[marshal99]

The problem with Marvel is that barely after the dust settled for House of M , they come out with another huge money sucking big company crossover and after that , they are probably going to launch a dozen new titles springing out from this crossover .
Enough is enough , i am burned out , i have not collected any OYL title , no 52 for me , no civil war , no annilhiation for me. I would rather wait for the trades if i want to read it , it's far cheaper. Marvel and DC seemed to think their fans are all cashcows and milking the fans for all that it is worth.

[Golon9977]

Bully for you, but you're missing out on some good stories.

Storytelling folks. That's what it is all about. Crossovers and hype-events don't make a company. Characters don't make a company. Giving Superman or Spider-Man a power-of-the-week doesn't make a company. Writers and good stories make a company. Slott, Griffen, and Brubaker (to name a few) are doing this well.
True. It is the writers that are making Marvel so great.

ah Marvel and DC are both just ok--not as excited about comic as I use to be during the early 00s, but both companies are doing what they've always done put out both hits and misses. I just don't understand the excitement. I feel like we all should be breaking out into song.
Did you star4ted buying comics in teh early 00s? If so, chances are that you'll never be as excited about comics as when you first bought them.

[agrich]

Minor point, but Annihilation is a very different type of "massive crossover" than the type fans generally complain about. It's a crossover involving titles that didn't exist prior to the Annihilation event, so it's not like it affects people who just want to buy their ordinary titles and don't like being forced to buy additional ones they don't normally get to read the full story. You can either choose to read Annihilation or not, but it's not like it impacts ongoing titles like Fantastic Four or whatever. You wouldn't even know Annihilation was occurring unless you bought one of the actual Annihilation titles that were started because of it.

[Michael P]

Your mistake is in assuming it's the same fans saying both things.

[The Shadow]

Marvel and DC seemed to think their fans are all cashcows and milking the fans for all that it is worth.
Weird... a business wanting to make money and *gasp* using its fanbase to do it! Shocking I tell ya.

:rolleyes:

[shaunyc56]

Weird... a business wanting to make money and *gasp* using its fanbase to do it! Shocking I tell ya.

:rolleyes:


Very well said, and to all the "ret conned out of existence" folks, who cares, don't you just want to enjoy a story. I don't give a crap if they wipe away everything that comes of this, I'm still enjoying it now, and If the next story is good, I'll enjoy that. If you want nothing to change for the sake of a good story, pick up some Sweet Valley High.

[lament]

Massive crossovers and bringing back the dead. These are two things that fans complain about constantly. Right now, there are two crossovers (Civil War and Annihilation) going on in the MU. Capt America brought back Bucky, a character that has been dead for ages. But I have not seen that many complains about these events. Granted, when the rumours of Bucky's return were running around, fans disliked the idea and some even said they are dropping Cap's title, if not the MU altogether. Yet they still remained as fans. True testament that the MU is on the right track with its stories :)

*I've always liked huge crossovers if they are done right.

*I loathe that they brought Bucky back and do not read Captain America (of course, I don't care for the author's stuff in general).

*I loathe a lot of stuff Marvel is doing right now--mass killings of characters, fast and loose continuity, the invasion of Wolverine (or a faux Wolverine) in every comic, etc.

*I tend to think DC is more on the right track than Marvel.

So I'm not really comfortable with your generalizations. Different strokes for different folks.

[Alan2099]

*I've always liked huge crossovers if they are done right.

*I loathe that they brought Bucky back and do not read Captain America (of course, I don't care for the author's stuff in general).

*I loathe a lot of stuff Marvel is doing right now--mass killings of characters, fast and loose continuity, the invasion of Wolverine (or a faux Wolverine) in every comic, etc.

So I'm not really comfortable with your generalizations. Different strokes for different folks.
I'm with you on those points, and I'd like to add I'm big against political allegories especially poorly thought out ones with characters shoehorned into roles they shouldn't be in.

[lament]

I'm with you on those points, and I'd like to add I'm big against political allegories especially poorly thought out ones with characters shoehorned into roles they shouldn't be in.

Yeah, me too. Political allegories are okay if done well, but when they do for the sake of doing it, and like you say, shoehorn characters in who don't belong, I don't care for it.

[Golon9977]

*I've always liked huge crossovers if they are done right.

*I loathe that they brought Bucky back and do not read Captain America (of course, I don't care for the author's stuff in general).

*I loathe a lot of stuff Marvel is doing right now--mass killings of characters, fast and loose continuity, the invasion of Wolverine (or a faux Wolverine) in every comic, etc.

*I tend to think DC is more on the right track than Marvel.

So I'm not really comfortable with your generalizations. Different strokes for different folks.
Theres no generalizations on my post. I stated I have not seen negative threads about those topics. As for the title, its just an IMO. And, IMO, Marvel is the daddy of todays comics.

[Faded]

Marvel has and has done things really well and really badly.

Luckily, whats good is enough to keep me happy and what's bad has the hope of being retconned in a few months time. ;)

[Chiasm]

Ok, my serious answer on this thread since my last was a joke. Marvel gets a C+ right now in my book with potential for great improvement the way things are going with Civil War and the change in writers on two of three main X-books.

In Marvel's favor:

1. Great non core books. Eternals, Squadron Supreme, Punisher (Ennis version), and Powers are all must reads for me every month and all are either non 616 books or are very removed from mainstream 616.

2. Willingness to shake up the status quo. I think House of M / Decimation could have been so much better but I give Marvel credit for trying. Civil War though could be great. I'm really hoping that when its all said and done there is a massive status quo change and that it doesn't all end with a big reg / anti reg teamup to defeat the villians. It will be so much better if things stay fractured for creativities sake if nothing else.

3. Milligan and Claremont are no longer writing X-men. It pains me to say that of CC since I grew up on CC but other than a great "End of the Greys" arc his recent run was pretty blah. And Milligan, well, I can't say anything good about his run other than thank god he's gone. Brubaker astounded me on Deadly Genesis and Carey showed great potential on his first book. And Joss is god.

Negatives:

1. House of M / Decimation - such failed potential. House of M was a two issue story stretched to eight. And Decimation has failed to excite me at all, largely because Milligan had so much hand in writing the X-books about Decimation.

2. Too much reliance on writers named Bendis and Brubaker. Love them or hate them it should worry everyone that both are being stretched to the max on possibly too many books. Thats potentially bad.

3. Dead doesn't mean dead. I love Colossus. One of my favorite X-men ever. But he's dead and should stay dead. Panels of Syrin sitting around in X-factor not believing her father is dead should be plastered on all X-writers walls so that they don't resurrect dead X-characters. Joss is still god though.

4. Ultimate anything - blah freaking blah. Put the effort into 616. I'll admit they are good What If reads, and I do actually enjoy Ultimate Spidey, but some fans are actually acting like Ultimate matters more than 616. Time to nip this in the bud.

[Alan2099]

Now that you mention the Ultimate line, why not focus on the two lines compeltey seperatley and take them different directions? use the Ultimate stuff for the heavy political themed storylines and whatever and use the normal marvel universe for the massive brightly colored cosmic stuff.

Winter Soldier and Civil War feel more like Ultimate reads anyway and it would have been easier to work them into the Ultimate verse without having to betray characterization as much.

[Chiasm]

What bothers me about Ultimate is that there is ZERO originality yet Ultimate groupies act like its all brand new. So Colossus is gay in the Ultimateverse. Wa freaking wa. He's still made of organic metal, still named Peter Rasputin, and he's still from Russia. All they did is tweak an existing concept. So Gwen Stacy was killed by Carnage instead of Green Goblin. She is still dead, her death still affects Peter greatly, and she is still a blonde. Another tweak. So this great new villian that doesn't exist in 616 is being fought by this great new superhero who also doesn't exist in 616 - oh wait, that hasn't happened because Ultimate wouldn't know an original idea if it kicked them in the hiney.

Sorry if all your doing is taking an old story, updating to modern times, and tweaking the character a bit your not being original. I love Supreme Power / Squadron Supreme but you don't see me running around acting like its all new to me. I know where its going if not exactly how it gets there. I'm going to enjoy the ride. Ultimate fans are welcome to enjoy the ride on their books too. But quit acting like its new and original.

[spyridona]

Civil War feel more like Ultimate reads anyway and it would have been easier to work them into the Ultimate verse without having to betray characterization as much.

Considering a certain Scottish writer who likes to jam it down Americans throats how much we suck and how evil our forgien policy is and how we're spineless cowards who don't fight for our civil rights is writing both Civil War and Ultimates? Can't imagine why. :D

[spyridona]

Ultimate fans are welcome to enjoy the ride on their books too. But quit acting like its new and original.

Don't forget! It's more REALISTIC too!

Actually, I was quite fond of UFF until it's recent writer. *koff* Because yes, it was tweaked, but there was a lot of it that was different and not a rehash of the original comics. Three out of the four past story arcs that Millar has done has been a general rip off of Stan Lee.

[Babylon23]

Personally, I'm finding that I now dislike more things from Marvel than I like. I used to love FF, but dislike the book at the moment. I love Avengers, but dislike New Avengers. I love Iron Man, but dislike manipulative arsehole Iron Man. The Scarlet Witch is my favourite Marvel character, but I despise what they've done to her. Kitty Pryde is my second favourite character, but I dislike the Buffy-lite version of her in Astonishing.

I'm glad people are enjoying Marvel output at the moment, but there's only a very small number of books that interest me at themoment.

[Sam T.]

Ok, my serious answer on this thread since my last was a joke. Marvel gets a C+ right now in my book with potential for great improvement the way things are going with Civil War and the change in writers on two of three main X-books.

In Marvel's favor:

1. Great non core books. Eternals, Squadron Supreme, Punisher (Ennis version), and Powers are all must reads for me every month and all are either non 616 books or are very removed from mainstream 616.

2. Willingness to shake up the status quo. I think House of M / Decimation could have been so much better but I give Marvel credit for trying. Civil War though could be great. I'm really hoping that when its all said and done there is a massive status quo change and that it doesn't all end with a big reg / anti reg teamup to defeat the villians. It will be so much better if things stay fractured for creativities sake if nothing else.

3. Milligan and Claremont are no longer writing X-men. It pains me to say that of CC since I grew up on CC but other than a great "End of the Greys" arc his recent run was pretty blah. And Milligan, well, I can't say anything good about his run other than thank god he's gone. Brubaker astounded me on Deadly Genesis and Carey showed great potential on his first book. And Joss is god.

Negatives:

1. House of M / Decimation - such failed potential. House of M was a two issue story stretched to eight. And Decimation has failed to excite me at all, largely because Milligan had so much hand in writing the X-books about Decimation.

2. Too much reliance on writers named Bendis and Brubaker. Love them or hate them it should worry everyone that both are being stretched to the max on possibly too many books. Thats potentially bad.

3. Dead doesn't mean dead. I love Colossus. One of my favorite X-men ever. But he's dead and should stay dead. Panels of Syrin sitting around in X-factor not believing her father is dead should be plastered on all X-writers walls so that they don't resurrect dead X-characters. Joss is still god though.

4. Ultimate anything - blah freaking blah. Put the effort into 616. I'll admit they are good What If reads, and I do actually enjoy Ultimate Spidey, but some fans are actually acting like Ultimate matters more than 616. Time to nip this in the bud.



You really must be reading my mind...all very good points!!:D

[Matthew K.]

Joe Q is that you?
haha, but seriously how is Bucky back? were fans secretly clamouring for this?? :eek: :confused:

[Alan2099]

haha, but seriously how is Bucky back? were fans secretly clamouring for this?? :eek: :confused:
Because they never found Bucky's body, he got captured and turned into a top secret governemnt cyborg living weapon.

It's the natural evolution of the charactr after all. or at least it was after they retconned him into being this uber Solid Snake like black ops killer the whole time he was working with Cap.