Winter is Coming! (the official "A Song of Ice and Fire" thread)

[Mike Smash!]

Okay, since howya wants to start a thread about one of his favorite series', I'll start one on one of mine!

This is the official thread for fans of George R. R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" series -- in my mind, the best fantasy being produced today!

I know there are other fans of this series on the boards, so I thought I'd start with a simple question.

Who's your favorite P.O.V. character?

[intmd8r]

I'm around page 240 in the 2nd book, A Clash of Kings, and I love Tyrion! He just http://www.runemasterstudios.com/images/rockout.gif!

This series has me completely sucked in!

And for those who haven't read it, The Hedge Knight mini from DBPro was pretty awesome, too! Now I'm going to read the actual short story in Legends, too. I was waiting for the mini to be over so I didn't spoil it. :p

[JeffreyWKramer]

Who's your favorite P.O.V. character?

I have two - Jon Snow and Dany. They're also my two favorite characters from the books.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Same here Jeffery! Though I actually like them all, especially Tyrion and Arya.

[Smoogis]

Yay!

BEST SERIES EVER!

WHEE!


(Will have more intelligent conversation after happy blood stops pumping)

[Melchior]

Unfortunately, I have had to tell people that book four has been pushed back again (maybe sometime this summer....).

[Expletive Deleted]

Amazon is saying August. Ah, well.

My favorite POV characters are Jon and Jaime, although I have high hopes for Arya's chapters now that she's done wandering around aimlessly. The "coming of age" and the "redemption" bits are what get me, of course.

[Mike Smash!]

My favorite is Tyrion Lannister as well..

For a number of reasons, I find myself relating and sympathizing more with Tyrion than with most of the other fictional characters I've followed.

He's intelligent, kind, compassionate, funny, cunning and does alot more than a lot of characters to stick his neck out for others at his own risk.

But it's his faults that really drew me to him. His insolent mouth. his inability to keep a plan secret because he wants people to see how clever he is. His desperate need to be loved and for approval by anyone and everyone.

And even when he does something completely ruthless, I find myself in awe of how well Martin keeps me in his head and how well he's got me internally justifying his actions and forgiving him.

His last chapter -- especially his last few lines -- in "A Storm of Swords" is one of my all-time favorite moments of any character in any book.

And Smoogis speaks the truth... indeed the coolest series ever...

[Mike Smash!]

I'm around page 240 in the 2nd book, A Clash of Kings, and I love Tyrion! He just http://www.runemasterstudios.com/images/rockout.gif!

This series has me completely sucked in!

And for those who haven't read it, The Hedge Knight mini from DBPro was pretty awesome, too! Now I'm going to read the actual short story in Legends, too. I was waiting for the mini to be over so I didn't spoil it. :p

Legends II is out and there's a new "Dunk and Egg" story in it, entitled "The Sworn Sword. Very good, too!

[ragnarok_2012]

My favorite POV character is Tyrion. Smart, flawed, dealing with major obstacles well.

[adamthered]

It's unfortunate that Amazon's listing is probably wrong. On Martin's website, he hasn't updated that status on Book 4 since Jan. 4th. Isn't this the second time now that this book was supposed to have been out in August? I'm hoping by the end of the year, the fingers are crossed.

[Aubergine~!]

It makes me feel sad everytime I check GRRM's website.

And favorite character? Jon Snow by far.

[Ottmeister X]

Jon and I'm hoping for some Sandor POV's.

[Deathstroke]

I'm so backed up on my reading that I've eliminated some of the series I was reading.

George R.R. Martin and Robert Jordan were the first two to go.

[Will]

My favorite POV's are definately Jaime, Tyrion, Eddard (while he still had one...), Daenaerys and Jon. Although i read them the first time through i now just skip the Catelyn chapters (i hate them) except for a certain wedding...

In future books what POV's do you want to be added? I want Theon to come back and maybe to add someone based closed to Dany? Like Joras or 'Whitebeard' ?

[Mike Smash!]

My favorite POV's are definately Jaime, Tyrion, Eddard (while he still had one...), Daenaerys and Jon. Although i read them the first time through i now just skip the Catelyn chapters (i hate them) except for a certain wedding...

In future books what POV's do you want to be added? I want Theon to come back and maybe to add someone based closed to Dany? Like Joras or 'Whitebeard' ?


POVs I want? I'd love to see:

Gendry
Sandor Clegane ("The Hound")
Osha the wildling
Ser Brynden Tully ("the Blackfish")
and...Hot Pie! :D

[Will]

Gendry...? Meh, i can think of lots of people i would rather have a POV for.


Now a POV i want is Hodor! Think of the drama, the excitement, the action, the internal narration!!!

"Hodor Hodor Hodor"

[ragnarok_2012]

I want to see Ser Barristan as a POV character. Gendry would be a nice POV for the goings on of the Lightning Lord's people. Cersei would be groovy. Varys would be very....satisfying....

[Will]

I want to see Ser Barristan as a POV character. Gendry would be a nice POV for the goings on of the Lightning Lord's people. Cersei would be groovy. Varys would be very....satisfying....


According to quite reliable rumour, Cersei will be one of the new POV's in AFFC.

[Mike Smash!]

According to quite reliable rumour, Cersei will be one of the new POV's in AFFC.

She will indeed. She's got a sample preview chapter in the back of the mass market paperback edition of "A Storm of Swords". I've read it. Very good stuff.

Martin says there will be one more new POV. In terms of importance, I'm wishing for either Gendry or Osha the wildling.

Gendry because we can follow Lord Beric through him.

Osha so we can see where the hell she and Rickon have been since the end of "A Clash of Kings".

[Will]

She will indeed. She's got a sample preview chapter in the back of the mass market paperback edition of "A Storm of Swords". I've read it. Very good stuff.


Is there anywhere to read this online? I wouldnt want to have to buy another copy of ASOS just to read it. :(

[Mike Smash!]

Is there anywhere to read this online? I wouldnt want to have to buy another copy of ASOS just to read it. :(

Not that I know of. You don't have to buy it. You can always just sit in the store and read that one chapter. That's what I did.

[Blueferret]

I liked the Jaimie and Jon POV's. Jaimie such an ass and now he seems to be on his way to redemption, although after the events in SOS he seems to be on a collision course with Tyrion.

On a different note. I don't think we've heard the last of Theon. It was never explicitly said he was dead. Only rumors. I think he's due for a dramatic comeback. I hope so, because he was someone who didn't knwo exactly where he fit in the world.

This is, by far, the best series out today. I just wish "Crow's" would come out. :eek:

[ragnarok_2012]

SPOILER
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In Storm of Swords, Roose Bolton says at one point that his son had taken Theon prisoner. He presents to Catelyn the skin from Theon's little finger.

[Aubergine~!]

Is there anywhere to read this online? I wouldnt want to have to buy another copy of ASOS just to read it. :(

Not that chapter, but GRRM has another chapter up on his website.

It's about Dany, if the one I read is still up there.

www.georgerrmartin.com

Edit: The Dany one is gone, but there's an Arya chapter up.

[Will]

Thanks Aubergine, your my favorite fruit/vegetable (?) from now on.

[MattKrizan]

My favorite POV's are Jon and Arya, since they've become my favorite characters. My least favorite is Danaerys, probably because, at this point, her story is so far removed from what's going on with everyone else. It just takes me right out of the story. I know eventually it will all come colliding together (and probably in a most spectacular way), but right now every time I turn the page to see a new chapter of hers, I just groan.

[Mike Smash!]

Which characters do you most love to hate?

(aka favorite villains, the people make you pray they'd get hit in the face with an axe)

My list is:

Joffrey Baratheon
Cersei Lannister
Ser Gregor Clegane
Lord Walder Frey

[Emma]

ASoIaF is easily the 2nd best fantasy ive ever read.

But the thing thats killing me is the wait for the 4th book.
Its been years now. :(

[ragnarok_2012]

Joffrey neeeds to french kiss an axe heading at the speed of sound towards his face.

Lord Frey is bad, but the two Walders at Winterfell are monsters.

Theon Greyjoy is annoying. Kinda like a poor man's Robert Baratheon.

Tywin I don't mind so much. Now Cersei is another matter entirely.

[Mike Smash!]

And don't forget Viserys Targaryen, Dany's brother. Not the nicest guy in the world.

[ragnarok_2012]

You would criticize your rightful King?

I challenge you to single combat. Since I am the wronged party, I expect you to buy me a really nice sword for my eventual triumph over you.

[Inkthinker]

Not that chapter, but GRRM has another chapter up on his website.

It's about Dany, if the one I read is still up there.

www.georgerrmartin.com

Edit: The Dany one is gone, but there's an Arya chapter up.
Awesome! I had totally missed this.

-EDIT-

Oh, yeah... Arya is gonna be a bad-ass. She's rapidly becoming my favorite character.

[Christopher O]

Great Thread! I love this series. My favorite POV character is Arya. I just love her. I also enjoy Jaimie, Tyrion, and Catelyn. I can't wait for Cersei's POV. She's the next one I wanted to see. Man, I just love this series.

[Shellhead]

I'm afraid that this series is going to break my heart. I first read A Game of Thrones back in 1996, I think, and we've only gotten two books since then. Yes, they are amazing books, but then the series has also ballooned up into, what, seven books now? I think that the series was originally supposed to be just five books, and the last one would have been out by now.

Sure, I think that this series is outstanding, and I'm willing to wait as long as it takes for Martin to write these books the way that he wants to... but I'm honestly worried that he won't live long enough to finish the series. He's been a professional writer for over 30 years now, and he's a large, unhealthy-looking guy. I hope that he continues to live a long and happy life, and finish these books, too. I suspect that he's also got some other cool ideas that he wants to write but they just don't work in the world of Westeros. For example, there is the beginning section of an unfinished novel in his collection Quartet. In the intro to Black and White and Red All Over, Martin warns that he will not get around to finishing this work until after he finishes A Song of Fire and Ice.

If Martin doesn't live long enough, I hope that he has made contingency plans for another writer to take his notes and finish it. Maybe Melinda Snodgrass, she wrote some good stories for his Wild Cards collections, and she co-wrote a novel with him. Snodgrass is also known for writing numerous good episodes for Star Trek: the Next Generation.

[Shellhead]

Just went looking for some info on George. He was born in 1948, so he's 56. A Game of Thrones was published in 1996, so at that pace, we should get the 7th book by 2012, when Martin is 64.

[Emma]

Shellhead,

I worry too that the great success might get to him and he might extend the series and milk it for all its worth, see Wheel of Time as an example.

And as far as i know the series is still scheduled at 6 books.

They are:

1. A Game of Thrones
2. A Clash of Kings
3. A Storm of Swords
4. A Feast for Crows
5. A Dance with Dragons
6. The Winds of Winter

[ragnarok_2012]

At Westeros.org, Martin says that he's still trying to complete it in 6 books, but he's "no longer to take a blood oath" on it.

[Ronald Bryan]

Umm, the books are very well written but I'm still trying to get through A Game of Thrones. Long is not the word for it. But hopefully someday soon I can finish and get to the rest of the series.

[adamthered]

I remember having the same problem with "A Game of Thrones." Took me two or three tries before I could get past a certain point. But, when you do, it will be totally worth it.

What worked for me was I had a summer job where I could sit and read, my presence only had to be there (it was a govt. job, your tax dollars hard at work) so I brought the book. Had it finished in a week and then bought book 2.

[Emma]

Book 1 and 2 had some parts in it that really bogged imo. Mostly the first 100 pages or so of both. But the rest are really great reads and book 3 is perfect from start to finish. :)

Oh, George Martin also answered an email i sent him... about a year and a half later! He must get billions of emails and i was pleasantly surprised when i saw that. It always feels good when the people behind the scenes talk to the 'little people.'

[MKTerra]

Something I just noticed the other day when rereading bits of the series...

Howland Reed was the "little crannogman" in the story Meera told Bran in A Storm of Swords?

I'd totally forgotten that Ned described Reed as "the little crannogman" in A Game of Thrones until I reread his fighting-the-three-Kingsguard dream the other day :eek: It'd explain why Jojen kept asking Bran "are you sure your father never told you this story?"

[Mike Smash!]

Yay! The thread is back -- but alas, no Feast for Crows, yet. I console myself with the fact that it's going to be great. Better late and great than prompt and putrid.

In the time since I last posted on this thread, I got both a close friend and his wife hooked on it. He's a big Jaime fan and she's partial to Tyrion.

So any thoughts on who the other new POV character for "Feast" will be?

[adamthered]

Yay! The thread is back -- but alas, no Feast for Crows, yet. I console myself with the fact that it's going to be great. Better late and great than prompt and putrid.

In the time since I last posted on this thread, I got both a close friend and his wife hooked on it. He's a big Jaime fan and she's partial to Tyrion.

So any thoughts on who the other new POV character for "Feast" will be?

My money's on Hodor :p

[Blueferret]

Yay! The thread is back -- but alas, no Feast for Crows, yet. I console myself with the fact that it's going to be great. Better late and great than prompt and putrid.

In the time since I last posted on this thread, I got both a close friend and his wife hooked on it. He's a big Jaime fan and she's partial to Tyrion.

So any thoughts on who the other new POV character for "Feast" will be?

Are you counting out Cersei?

[Mike Smash!]

Are you counting out Cersei?

Yeah, we know Cersei is one of them, based on the bonus chapter at the end of the mass market edition of "A Storm of Swords", but I want to know who the other one is..

Some possibilities:

Osha, the wildling guarding Rickon (and haven't seen since the end of "A Clash of Kings")

Gendry, bastard son of King Robert and now a member of the Brotherhood Without Banners

Sandor Clegane (aka "The Hound")

Ser Jorah Mormont

[Shellhead]

My money's on Hodor :p

That chapter could be one word long... HODOR!

[Blueferret]

Yeah, we know Cersei is one of them, based on the bonus chapter at the end of the mass market edition of "A Storm of Swords", but I want to know who the other one is..

Some possibilities:

Osha, the wildling guarding Rickon (and haven't seen since the end of "A Clash of Kings")

Gendry, bastard son of King Robert and now a member of the Brotherhood Without Banners

Sandor Clegane (aka "The Hound")

Ser Jorah Mormont
I think you might be on to something with Gendry. The readers need an eyes and ears**groan** in that part of the country with the King getting wiped out by a wave and Theon dead (Allegedly). Hell, it could be Theon's sister.

[MissKale]

Its odd with these books. I finished the first two really quickly (like a couple days). But now I keep starting the third book over and over again. Then I usually get to the same spot and put it away. I think it has to do with the fact that I hate finishing series off. So I'm probably waiting for the fourth book to come out.

[Mike Smash!]

Okay, here's the question:

Who or what pulled you into this series and now that you're addicted, who have you hooked on it?

Myself, I got it on a whim. I wanted to try a new fantasy series and it was gonna be either this or "The Wheel of Time". I asked on this board randomly a couple years ago and people posted in droves telling me to read it and I did. I absolutely love it.

I've so far addicted:

My friend Jake
Jake's wife
Ragnarok

How about the rest of you?

[MissKale]

Sigerson told me about them, but he didn't suggest them to me. Its just that one day I saw the first book sitting around. So I picked it up and read it. When I told him he said, oh I thought you didn't like Fantasy. Then I hit him with the book, I'm not sure he's recovered yet.

[Mike Smash!]

Its odd with these books. I finished the first two really quickly (like a couple days). But now I keep starting the third book over and over again. Then I usually get to the same spot and put it away. I think it has to do with the fact that I hate finishing series off. So I'm probably waiting for the fourth book to come out.

Read the third book!!!

If anything else, it's a great break off point to wait for "A Feast for Crows" with. Big stuff and I mean BIG STUFF happens in "A Storm of Swords" and after your jaw's finishing dropping, you can chat about it with us...

Get to it!

[MissKale]

Read the third book!!!

If anything else, it's a great break off point to wait for "A Feast for Crows" with. Big stuff and I mean BIG STUFF happens in "A Storm of Swords" and after your jaw's finishing dropping, you can chat about it with us...

Get to it!

I wish I could currently. And Sigerson needs to read it as well. Its one series we are at least both equally behind on.

But I've also got the most recent Lindsey Davis and Jasper Fforde to read. Which makes me both happy and sad since they are also currently the last books to come out of the series.

[MKTerra]

Okay, here's the question:

Who or what pulled you into this series and now that you're addicted, who have you hooked on it?
I kept hearing rave reviews here :p :)

[Michael P]

Okay, here's the question:

Who or what pulled you into this series and now that you're addicted, who have you hooked on it?

Myself, I got it on a whim. I wanted to try a new fantasy series and it was gonna be either this or "The Wheel of Time". I asked on this board randomly a couple years ago and people posted in droves telling me to read it and I did. I absolutely love it.
Pretty much the same. June of 2003, I spent about three weeks in a crappy motel while I interned at a magazine and waited for the Clairmont campus to open back up for the Summer Intern Housing Program. Most of my stuff was in boxes, so I went book shopping for something to tide me over nights. I'd heard good things about both Martin and the series, so I bought the first one.

I finished it in about a week-and-a-half, then went out and bought the next two, and had them done by the time Harry Potter 5 came out.

The only thing I don't like about reading them? Despairing that I'll never be as jaw-droppingly brilliant as this guy is.

[Inkthinker]

I think I picked up the first one as a comp reader copy during my brief Waldenbooks stint. Best freebie ever, baby...

So far I've hooked my dad, my best friend, his wife, my girlfriend and anyone else who I can actually convince to read a nearly 1000-page fantasy novel.

[Blueferret]

Here's somthing else that no one's talking about concerning the end of SOS.
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What do you think the state of Caitlin is going to be in FEAST?? Will she be inanimate and not capable of independant thought or did she somehow oversome death on her own. I tend to lean towards something else helping her along due to the red-eyes.

Any thought???

[Inkthinker]

Dude, try this tag for spoilers:

This is a spoiler

If you quote my post you can see the markers. Much better than a warning.

As for your question... no idea!! It's one of those things Martin is keeping close, even in the chapters he's released online, there's not a whisper of her fate.

[Shellhead]

What pulled me into this series?

I was already a fan of Martin. I first encountered his work with the Wild Cards series, but that was frustrating as it gradually evolved into a contest between the various contributors to see who could come up with the most degenerate plot twist. On a hunch, I tracked some other books by Martin, and discovered he wrote several excellent short story collections, and some outstanding standalone novels. "The Dying of the Light" and "Fevre Dream" were amazing. So when "A Game of Thrones" was published, I was one of the early buyers.

Who have I hooked on this series?

my mom
my sister
my friend Dave
and, sadly, that's it. Most of my friends just don't have the time or the attention span to tackle a big book anymore, so they won't even try it. Even the ones who like fantasy.

[Toonimator]

Rambling ahead...

In high school I began reading "Wheel of Time", and loved it, and kept seeing "Game of Thrones" on shelves & in the SF book club's ads. The concept of a world where seasons could last years was intriguing! Wasn't until college that I picked it up, and saw that the season-concept from the back cover blurb wasn't that big a deal... but everything else WAS. The character POV chapters were as engaging as they were infuriating, jumping around the story on so many different fronts, and ending each chapter with you wanting to just skip to the next one of that character...

but what sealed the deal was the end. When Stark, a man who looked to be the main character & hero of the saga, was killed. Just a big "holy s#!t" moment! And there were so many of those in the series. It said "no one is safe". And the books have brought that point home a number of times.

By the 3rd book, I was forcibly having to restrain myself from simply following characters' chapter-arcs instead reading all the book straight through. "Wheel of Time" suddenly lost nearly all interest for me as a narrative. "Ice & Fire" was epic storytelling at its best, and grounded solidly in character, too. The world itself had its fanciful elements with the wights & the dragons & the odd bits of magic, but it was gritty and down-to-earth... real in a Middle-Earth kinda way, but with a different kind of magic about it and without that wistful bygone days of yore kinda feel, if that makes any sense.

Just... wow. I don't think of the series often, because it reminds me how long the wait is for "Crows" (Martin can have all the time in the world, so long as he finishes the series himself!). But when I do think of it, all those powerful feelings come rushing back. I wish I had time to read it again right now!

[MKTerra]

What do you think the state of Caitlin is going to be in FEAST?? Will she be inanimate and not capable of independant thought or did she somehow oversome death on her own. I tend to lean towards something else helping her along due to the red-eyes.

Any thought???
Well, I figure Thoros did his thing on her like he's done several times with Beric, and supposedly every time it's done Beric loses something...

[comartg]

To get ready for the release of the new book, I just re-read the first three. I can't believe how much I like this series! Cliffhanger after cliffhanger! Can't wait for the 4th book...In 10 years I'll be sayin can't wait for the 7th book (I know it's supposed to be 6 books, but we'll see...)

[adamthered]

I was in Wal-Mart back in college (Fall 97) and I was killing time while the girl I was dating was shopping for groceries. Checking out the magazine and books, I caught a blurb on one cover that read, "'Brilliant!' Robert Jordan." I don't know why I saw that but I had just read all seven (only seven at that time, he he)Wheel of Time books that summer so I figured if I liked Jordan and he was saying this book was brilliant, I'd pick it up. After trying to get into it, it sat on the shelf for two years before I finally read the whole thing. And, when I finally did, boy was I hooked. This was better than WoT.

Unfortunately I haven't hooked anybody on it :D I don't know anybody else that reads fantasy, more circle of friends is tiny.

[mrhelm]

I absolutely detest Robert Jordan, but I knew I'd give these books a try thanks to the Wild Card series of my youth. I did it and I've never looked back. Simply the best fantasy series EVER WRITTEN. Amazingly good stuff.

Nick

[beryl]

... Hate isn't a venomous word for how much I loathe her!!!

On another note. "Hodor!"

-Beryl.

[Inkthinker]

Dammit, every time this thread comes up out of the pit I think, "it's done!"... but it never is...

:(

[beryl]

Sorry Ink. I was just lookin for a "Game of Thrones" Thread and found this one.

When is the next one out?... or is it?

[Mike Smash!]

Dammit, every time this thread comes up out of the pit I think, "it's done!"... but it never is...

:(Yeah, me too... I saw this thread under New Posts and my heart skipped a beat.

Dammit.

[Blueferret]

Dammit, every time this thread comes up out of the pit I think, "it's done!"... but it never is...

:(

Heh. That's funny. I thought the same thing too. I check his page out every day to see if he's posted that it's done, and thought someone had gotten it.

[Roquefort Raider]

To get ready for the release of the new book, I just re-read the first three. I can't believe how much I like this series! Cliffhanger after cliffhanger! Can't wait for the 4th book...In 10 years I'll be sayin can't wait for the 7th book (I know it's supposed to be 6 books, but we'll see...)

I'm sorry to say so, but in ten years we'll still be waiting for book 5... ;)

[Shellhead]

I am a big fan of Martin, but at this point, I hope that he has left a good paper trail of notes about the overall plotline and lots of good details about future scenes, because I think that the only way this series will get finished is if he gives permission to another writer to finish it after he dies. Maybe his dear friend and fellow writer Melinda Snodgrass... they co-wrote a book and worked together on the Wild Cards series, plus she wrote many fine episodes of Star Trek: the Next Generation. Martin is a big unhealthy-looking guy in his 50's, and this series has only delivered three books in nine years so far.

[ratzo]

Just finished Swords the other day finally and Crows can't possibly come soon enough for me. I too hope GRRM will be able to finish the whole thing; it amazes me how much detail he has put into this series and I can't imagine anyone else being able to easily carry on, should that become necessary.

One character I can't believe no one's mentioned so far who I absolutely love is Brienne. She's one of the very few knights who truly understand what being a knight means. She's loyal to a fault, she can fight with the best of them (loved the scene in Swords where she and Jaime go at it), but at the same time you can tell how nieve she can be. I'm betting she'll be the other new POV character in Crows because there's so much more to her character that has yet to be explored.

Nice to see so much love for Tyrion. I was so scared that he wouldn't survive at the end of Swords.

I started reading the series after reading the graphic novel The Hedge Knight. I liked it so much I wanted to read the books themselves, so I did.

[Blueferret]

Yeah, I think Brienne is being set up to be a major player down the line also. What cliffhanger are you all looking forward to in the next book? Me, I'm looking forward to Jon as commander of the watch and the threats from both sides of the wall he is going to face. Am I the only one that thinks Clegane is not dead and is going to pop back up where you least expect him?

[Inkthinker]

I'm all about Arya... you know she's coming back from the Isles as a total bad-ass assassin girl. I'd I seriously doubt we've seen the last of the Hound.

:D

Jon's story is pretty interesting, but I'm also very interested in Jaime's, since he's begun to grow a soul. I'm expecting that he and Brienne have a lot more going on with their stories than we've seen so far. And then there's Daenerys...

I hope Bran's story kicks up a notch, 'cause it's been kinda "meh" up to this point. But I should think it's going to improve now that he's beyond the Wall.

[adamthered]

Do you think we've seen the last of Syrio, or whatever his name was. The man that started training Arya. Last we saw him he was getting ready to take on a bunch of the Guards. But, we never saw a body, or read about one...

[NeoSapien]

Syrio really should be dead, since his opponent Sir Meryn (IIRC) survived unharmed and had a clear advantage with armor and an actual sword. But he could turn up, especially if he was the Faceless Man Jaqen H'gar (or whatever his last name was).

[Inkthinker]

I do think Martin left an "out" for Syrio to re-appear, by not confirming his death... but when last we saw him, unarmored and weilding a rapier against a man in full plate armed with a broadsword, in a room with little area to maneuver in... well, it didn't look good.

I seriously doubt he was masquerading as H'gar, though... Martin's not that hackneyed a writer.

[beryl]

I can't help but express my love for all of Sam's Chapters. It was so hard not to check ahead to look for them!!

I'm with you Ink! Syrio "can" be alive and I'm gnawing my fingers off waiting for the next book.

[takuya]

hello i want friend in my life.......everyone like read book comic?

[Valmore]

It's funny, I've just re-read the three books, and I finally made a connection I hadn't made before, possibly since I never knew it existed.

Martin had been writing some short stories about a hedge knight named Duncan the Tall, two so far that were in collections of short stories.

In "A Storm of Swords" near the end, Jamie Lannister is going over The White Book of the King's Guard... and one of those listed as a member of that guard is Duncan the Tall.

So Martin's already spoiled how Duncan the Tall's tale ends.

I found that to be spiffy.

[comicsarefun]

;) Fantastic series, I never say who I like or dislike because attachment means death, I mean Does this guy kill people off or what?!!!

[saintjon]

It's funny, I've just re-read the three books, and I finally made a connection I hadn't made before, possibly since I never knew it existed.

Martin had been writing some short stories about a hedge knight named Duncan the Tall, two so far that were in collections of short stories.

In "A Storm of Swords" near the end, Jamie Lannister is going over The White Book of the King's Guard... and one of those listed as a member of that guard is Duncan the Tall.

So Martin's already spoiled how Duncan the Tall's tale ends.

I found that to be spiffy.

ditto. It's not much of a spoiler though. Once you realize who Egg goes on to become it's hardly a stretch lol (does kind of suggest that he never wound up finding Tansel though)

[Blueferret]

;) Fantastic series, I never say who I like or dislike because attachment means death, I mean Does this guy kill people off or what?!!!

That's one of the most true statements I've read regarding this series. I also think it's what makes this series so remarkable.

Who's death surprised you the most? I've got to say Joffrey or Robb's were for me.

[Jared_Humpherys]

I'm gonna get to meet George RR Martin on Memorial Day! Nyah! :D

[Joe Zool]

It's funny, I've just re-read the three books, and I finally made a connection I hadn't made before, possibly since I never knew it existed.

Martin had been writing some short stories about a hedge knight named Duncan the Tall, two so far that were in collections of short stories.

In "A Storm of Swords" near the end, Jamie Lannister is going over The White Book of the King's Guard... and one of those listed as a member of that guard is Duncan the Tall.

So Martin's already spoiled how Duncan the Tall's tale ends.

I found that to be spiffy.

I've never read these stories.

Can you spoil me, pls? :)

[DrDoomX]

I Picked up a game of thrones never read it...I was one who got into Robert Jordan, and though I enjoyed the early books of his series, it soon got tiresome....anyhow I heard great things about this series, and finally picked up a game of thrones which I will begin after i finish some star wars books

[Valmore]

I've never read these stories.

Can you spoil me, pls? :)

They were two short stories he wrote. The first was "The hedge Knight" - it starts out with Duncan burying his mentor knight and going to the tournament to try and win fame. He meets up with a boy who calls himself Egg, who starts to squire for him. It was a great story, culminating in a 7-on-7 battle royale for the honor of Duncan.

The second story, "The Sworn Sword," follows Duncan and Egg's further adventures.

[Joe Zool]

Where do I find these stories?

[Valmore]

Where do I find these stories?

To get The Hedge Knight (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812575237/qid=1116818760/sr=1-17/ref=sr_1_17/103-6602654-2434238?v=glance&s=books)

That would get you "The Hedge Knight."

To get The Sworn Sword (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345456440/ref=pd_sim_b_3/103-6602654-2434238?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance)

That would get you "The Sworn Sword."

You don't have to buy through Amazon, just thought I'd give you something to look for.

[Joe Zool]

Thanks! :)

[Valmore]

Something just struck me as a bold move for Ser Davos, though likely one that would get his head lopped off.

Melisandre has been riddling Stannis' head that Edric, the baseborn son of the late King Robert, is needed as a sacrifice to awaken the Stone Dragon, since he has the blood of kings in him.

With Davos shipping Edric off, there still is one option that has never been brought to the forefront - Stannis' daughter. Since Melisandre is so quick to say Stannis is the true king, it stands to reason that his trueborn daughter has an even stronger line of kings blood in her, and would be an even harder sacrifice to R'hllor, since she is Stannis' only trueborn child.

If sacrifice is needed to R'Hllor, then surely Stannis would be willing to sacrifice his daughter, right?

Of course not.

So how can a king be so able to sacrifice a baseborn bastard when he can't sacrifice his own?

Of course, that would probably get Davos killed... but still, it would be a rather bold answer.

[Inkthinker]

Stannis might do it though... he's one cold sonovabitch, and the argument has validity. But maybe it has to be a son for some reason?

Besides, now Stannis is on the Wall, and I don't think he brought his kid with him. I wonder if Melisandre is going to target Jon Snow as a sacrifice? Of course, he's Lord Commander Snow now...

[Valmore]

Stannis might do it though... he's one cold sonovabitch, and the argument has validity. But maybe it has to be a son for some reason?

Besides, now Stannis is on the Wall, and I don't think he brought his kid with him. I wonder if Melisandre is going to target Jon Snow as a sacrifice? Of course, he's Lord Commander Snow now...

Jon Snow is the bastard of the Hand of the King. Not sure if that qualifies for King's Blood or not. Though he might have earned him a spot on the Melisandre hit list for not taking up for Stannis and becoming Lord Jon Stark of Winterfell.

[Shellhead]

Jon Snow is the bastard of the Hand of the King. Not sure if that qualifies for King's Blood or not. Though he might have earned him a spot on the Melisandre hit list for not taking up for Stannis and becoming Lord Jon Stark of Winterfell.

There has been some speculation that Jon Snow's true mother might be of royal blood.

[MKTerra]

I do think Martin left an "out" for Syrio to re-appear, by not confirming his death... but when last we saw him, unarmored and weilding a rapier against a man in full plate armed with a broadsword, in a room with little area to maneuver in... well, it didn't look good.Not a rapier even, IIRC. Just a training stick with a lead core for weight...

[Tobias March]

Has this been pointed elsewhere yet, I almost feel like opening a whole new thread to announce it in case peoples think I'm just posting to add to the theories, but .....

GEORGE R. R. MARTIN "A FEAST FOR CROWS" IS COMPLETED!!!

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/


oops, I just spotted the thread directly below. Can't seem to delete post though. Ah well, George's thread deserves a bump :)

[DrDoomX]

This may be a stupid question but who is that on the cover of "A Game of Thrones."? Is that John Snow, or is that Eddard Stark? I am just curious that is all? Who is that on the black horse?

[Inkthinker]

I think it's supposed to be Jon, given the great white wolf next to him. But it looks nothing like Jon does in my eye. Sadly this is a pretty common event in book covers. Darrell K. Sweet's covers are often brilliantly drawn, and often quite inaccurate.

Most artists simply don't have the opportunity, much less the time, to read the books they illustrate covers for. They recieve a few paragraphs describing the scene... if they're very lucky, they recieve actual descriptions of the characters. That's about it, really...

[DrDoomX]

I think it's supposed to be Jon, given the great white wolf next to him. But it looks nothing like Jon does in my eye. Sadly this is a pretty common event in book covers. Darrell K. Sweet's covers are often brilliantly drawn, and often quite inaccurate.

Most artists simply don't have the opportunity, much less the time, to read the books they illustrate covers for. They recieve a few paragraphs describing the scene... if they're very lucky, they recieve actual descriptions of the characters. That's about it, really...

Thanks for the Info. Yea Jon does not look like that, anyway the guy in the picture looks older then Jon should be anyhow....I thought Eddard but if it was, he was missing his beard. Anyhow thanks again!

[Valmore]

I think it's supposed to be Jon, given the great white wolf next to him. But it looks nothing like Jon does in my eye. Sadly this is a pretty common event in book covers. Darrell K. Sweet's covers are often brilliantly drawn, and often quite inaccurate.

Most artists simply don't have the opportunity, much less the time, to read the books they illustrate covers for. They recieve a few paragraphs describing the scene... if they're very lucky, they recieve actual descriptions of the characters. That's about it, really...

I wasn't too sure at first, either. The guy looked too old to be Jon, but the white dire wolf made me figure it wasn't Eddard, who was my first guess.

The second book's cover is more obvious, at least. The Onion Knight kneeling before King Stannis with Melisandre next to him.

The third book is the Tully's - both boys and Catelyn. I think. Unless the man in the background is Robb Stark. He favored his mother.

[literally exaggerated]

Pretty sure thats Jon on the cover of the first book.

As for Jon, I fall into the camp that believes he isn't Ned's bastard at all, but the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. There've been a ton of hints, my only real concern is that it might be a bit too obvious for Martin.

[Roquefort Raider]

As for Jon, I fall into the camp that believes he isn't Ned's bastard at all, but the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. There've been a ton of hints, my only real concern is that it might be a bit too obvious for Martin.


I agree with you if hindsight is taken into account, b ut what author can truly pull the wool over so many eytes for long? There are so many fans of the books and we've had so much time to discuss them waiting for the next installment that Jon's lineage was bound to come under our collective scrutiny.

For my part, I must admit that I didn't catch on at all the first time I read the series. As it is today, I expect Rhaegar to be fully rehabilitated as a character in future books. He was demonized in the earlier chapters, but that's because the Baratheons got to write history. I expect his and Lyanna's love to have been a true one, and Ned must have been pretty torn over his sister's and his friend Robert's desires.

[literally exaggerated]

Yeah. Rhaegar is one of the more badass guys in the books, actually. I mean, long white hair, purple eyes, black armor etched with dragons, supposedly a genius.

Actually, I'd really, really love to see a prequel series. young Robert and Ned, Rhaegar, Arthur Dayne (possibly the coolest guy never to appear in the books), 15 year old Jaime...its a helluva story, and I'd read it for Dayne alone, let alone the others.

On another random note, any opinions on where we'll see Sandor next? I suppose he *could* be dead, but I doubt it. Martin might be willing to kill anybody, but for the most part he does it onscreen (which is why i think we'll be seeing more of Theon). so, assuming he's alive, where does Sandor go from here? It'd be awesome to see him meet with Brienne, just to see how badly he shreds her ideals.

[Inkthinker]

I'm hoping we'll see the Hound in the next book, but it depends on whether or not he survived (I'm sure he did) and whether he's traveled north or south. I would like to see more development of his potential redemption (of sorts, since I don't think he can truly redeem himself of all his crimes without, say, dying heroically).

You know, I never considered Jon might be a lost Targaryen. So I suppose there's plenty of others who haven't either. What are these "tons of clues"?

[literally exaggerated]

Let's start with a few quotes saying why Rhaegar and Lyanna were in fact in love and why she was not raped as Robert insists:-

p. 30. "Yet sometimes Dany would picture the way it had been, so often had her brother told her the stories. The midnight flight to Dragonstone, moonlight shimmering on the ship's black sails. Her brother Rhaegar battling the Usurper in the bloody waters of the Trident and dying for the woman he loved."

p. 379. "'Robert will never keep to one bed,' Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm's End. 'I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale.' Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. 'Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man's nature.'"

p. 381. "For the first time in years, [Ned] found himself remembering Rhaegar Targaryen. He wondered if Rhaegar had frequented brothels; somehow he thought not."

Lyanna doesn't seem to have been thrilled with the idea of being married to a man whom she knew would never keep faithful to her and who seems to have seen only her beauty and not the whole of her. On the other hand, if she ran off with Rhaegar she ran off with a different man who, again, was not faithful to his wife.

Yet apparently the Targaryen version of the story is that Rhaegar loved Lyanna and was willing to fight Robert to the death to keep her, despite the fact that he could have ended the war, or at least the battle at the Trident, by returning Lyanna to Robert. And Ned seems to feel that despite Rhaegar's infidelity with Lyanna, Rhaegar wouldn't be the sort to run around with whores the way Robert indisputably did.

Ned's emotions about his sister's death seem oddly out of sync with those expressed by Robert, and with those you would expect from Ned given what had supposedly been done to Lyanna. Further evidence of Rhaegar's love for Lyanna comes in the lines:-
" Ned remembered the moment when all smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife, the Dornish princess Elia Martell, to lay the queen of beauty's laurel in Lyanna's lap. He could see it still: a crown of winter roses, blue as frost."

So if Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love, what about Jon's appearance?
We all know that Jon and Arya were alike in appearance, we also have Eddard's words (speaking of Lyanna) to Arya, "You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her." So then Jon must look much like Lyanna.

Why doesn't Jon have the striking and obvious Targaryen coloring? Simple: the Targaryen coloring (pale silver or gold hair, violet eyes) is entirely recessive, genetically speaking. Light colored hair and eyes are always recessive. The Stark coloring -- dark hair and eyes -- is genetically dominant. (Don't ask me why most of the Stark children have Tully coloring, I don't know.) The only way you get a child with the true Targaryen coloring is if you inbreed Targaryen to Targaryen. Since Jon's not a pure Targaryen, he didn't get the Targaryen color. We can infer that GRRM is using genetics similar to those in our world from the fact that Ned (and Jon Arryn before him) deduced the true parentage of Cersei's children because they didn't inherit the dark Baratheon coloring, and should have since the Baratheon colors are dominant and breed true.
The most likely scenario
After defeating the three Kingsguards, Ned entered the castle to see Lyanna lay dying in a bed of blood. Many times we see the descriptions of blood and flowers around Lyanna as she lay dying. There is description of blood around her, most likley caused by loss of blood during child-birth. We already know that Viserys' and Dany's mother died in child bed, it is quite possible that carrying a 'dragon' is more dangerous than a normal baby. When Ned arrived, Lyanna managed to tell Ned the child was hers and Rhaegar's. She probably made Ned promise to take care of the child "Promise me Ned", and she would like to rest beside Brandon and Father back in Winterfell after she died. Ned then went up to Lady Ashara Dayne to give her slain brother's sword, Ser Artur Dayne, then took the baby. The only witness with Ned was Howland Reed. Ned carrying a baby from Dorne spread rumors about him and Lady Ashara.
Other Evidence
Ned's feelings over the "Promise me Ned" statement are not what you would expect for a request to take her body home. Far more likely that it would be a promise to keep Jon's father a secret from a vengeful Robert.

from http://www.users.bigpond.com/dragonstone/faq/jonfiles.htm

[saintjon]

Another further motivation beyond love for Rhaegar to die fighting for Lyanna would be the passages from Dany's vision in book 2 that suggest Rhaegar stumbled on some prophecy or other (he was pretty bookish until he read one thing in an obscure book and then he went about learning warfare), when he's standing over a childbed (IMO Lyanna's the mom) and says something "He is the one that was promised, his is the song of ice and fire"

And really who else but a half Stark half Tagaryen would embody ice and fire?

[literally exaggerated]

Yeah, thats just the bare bones of the theory. You start digging deeper, there's tons of stuff supporting it.

[Tobias March]

I like it. It's so long since I've read the books I'll have to dig it up again.

But despite all the POV chapters and world criss-crossing characters, we've always known Jon was the main protagonist. It would be beautiful if 'Song of Fire and Ice', referred explicitly to him as you say.

[Mike Smash!]

I like it. It's so long since I've read the books I'll have to dig it up again.

But despite all the POV chapters and world criss-crossing characters, we've always known Jon was the main protagonist. It would be beautiful if 'Song of Fire and Ice', referred explicitly to him as you say.Actually, I think the hero of this one will be Dany in the end.

She's the only one with a claim to the Iron Throne that I'd actually want to have sit on it and she fits Mellisandre's prophecy more perfectly than Stannis does.

[Valmore]

Actually, I think the hero of this one will be Dany in the end.

She's the only one with a claim to the Iron Throne that I'd actually want to have sit on it and she fits Mellisandre's prophecy more perfectly than Stannis does.

Gads I hope not. Dany's chapters, to me, have been incredibly boring, especially after her brother got crowned with molten gold. The whole, "Im going to lead the slaves" thing just strikes of Martin's liberal guilt.

I keep hoping her dragons eat her and run loose on Westeros or something.

[DrDoomX]

That theory makes sense about Jon but one question...and this because this is my first reading through the series...Was the theory disclosed by robert was that Liyanna Stark was Kidnapped by Rhaegar and raped, and then Ned and Robert saved her, and then she died or did she die when Rhaegar supposedly kidnapped and raped her and that is when she died in Neds arms?

[saintjon]

She died shortly after Ned found her I think, which was shortly after he fought the Kingsguard at that tower (Tower of Joy?)

[literally exaggerated]

The Song of Ice and Fire motif works on a number of levels, and there are a number of theories about what it refers too, not all of them contradictory.

One possibility is the rising forces of fire and ice, the Dragons, Red Priests and the Others, and the significance of their (probable) impending clash (war between good and evil, or some other, less clearly divided abstract concepts, return of magic, etc.)

Jon Snow, half Targareyn, Half Stark. His story, and most specifically what happens because of that bloodline.

Daenarys Targaryen and Jon Snow, representing Fire and Ice, respectively, and their relationship and/or rivalry will presumably become a centerpiece of the story once Dany gets to westeros.

House Targaryen and House Stark. Basically the above theory, only expanded to include the whole houses, and the various magical qualities related to each (Dirwolves and warging against the Dragons and Dany's miraculous walk through fire)

more rarely House Lannister and House Stark (mostly based on the Lannister's coloring and attitude I believe. I don't buy it at all, personally)

some combination of the above
\
edit: We don't know why Ned went to the ToJ, nor why the best Kingsguard were there except that it was a task so important only the usurper's best friend/scion of one of the great houses and a few other close friends could be sent, and also so important to the Targaryens that the 3 greatest kingsguard were assigned to be there instead of with Rhaegar on the battlefield. Given that the Kingsguard's first task was to guard royal blood, this would make sense if Lyanna, Rhaegar's true love, was giving birth to his son (the future crown prince) within the Tower.

[Inkthinker]

Ooooohhh... that's good stuff. I don't read that deeply, but that seems like a lot of little hints to just be coincidence, and there seems to be nothing to deny it.

So it may very likely be true. And it would be a sweet story twist... yep, I like it.

Thanks for the clue!! Now I'll be reading the next book with an extra layer of depth... awesome!!

[ratzo]

Actually, I think the hero of this one will be Dany in the end.

She's the only one with a claim to the Iron Throne that I'd actually want to have sit on it and she fits Mellisandre's prophecy more perfectly than Stannis does.

I agree completely. It reached a point, as I was reading Swords, where I was rooting for Dany to come to Westeros and wipe everybody out. But now that Catelyn's alive and Joffrey and his dad are both dead, I'm no longer so sure...

[Shellhead]

Gads I hope not. Dany's chapters, to me, have been incredibly boring, especially after her brother got crowned with molten gold. The whole, "Im going to lead the slaves" thing just strikes of Martin's liberal guilt.

I keep hoping her dragons eat her and run loose on Westeros or something.

You're going to be deeply disappointed.

This series started out simply as a novella by Martin, titled "Blood of the Dragon" and starring Dany. Basically, take just the Dany chapters from "A Game of Thrones" with some minor changes in the final chapters, and that's "Blood of the Dragon." It won the 1987 Hugo for Best Novella.

Clearly, Dany is going to be a major character for the entire series. I agree with the people predicting here that the Song of Ice and Fire is a reference to the eventual relationship of Dany and Jon, although it is unclear right now if they will be lovers, enemies, or both.

[Shellhead]

My predictions for the overall story:

In an upcoming book, maybe Feast, we will see her attempt to govern that city-state that she conquered in Storm of Swords. She will try to do her best, but that mob of followers, combined with a crop failure and/or trade embargo, will lead to famine and riots. There will be a bloody debacle, and then she will leave for Westeros, aided by the Kingdom of Dorne and a certain crooked dwarf from House Lannister. Their combined forces will sweep through war-torn southern Westeros, then encounter resistance at the neck from a newly reunited North, under Jon Stark and Stannis. The north will be hard-pressed from supernatural forces beyond the Wall, but in the end, Dany and Jon will forge an alliance, possibly through diplomatic marriage, and defeat the supernatural threat behind the Others.

[saintjon]

I could do without them being aunt/nephew lovers myself :eek:

To me Dany is the counter to the Others by being Fire, but Jon encompasses Fire and Ice so he's the most central one. I can't even guess how that will pan out in terms of what's going to happen, I'm looking forward to a lot of those southern noble houses getting dragonized though.

[Blueferret]

Don't know if anyone saw this yet, but the release date is November 8th.

[Valmore]

You're going to be deeply disappointed.

This series started out simply as a novella by Martin, titled "Blood of the Dragon" and starring Dany. Basically, take just the Dany chapters from "A Game of Thrones" with some minor changes in the final chapters, and that's "Blood of the Dragon." It won the 1987 Hugo for Best Novella.

Clearly, Dany is going to be a major character for the entire series. I agree with the people predicting here that the Song of Ice and Fire is a reference to the eventual relationship of Dany and Jon, although it is unclear right now if they will be lovers, enemies, or both.

If Jon Snow rocks her world either way, I'll be happier.

[literally exaggerated]

I could do without them being aunt/nephew lovers myself

Right. I mean, its not like these books are already chock-full of incest, especially with the Targs ;)

In an upcoming book, maybe Feast, we will see her attempt to govern that city-state that she conquered in Storm of Swords. She will try to do her best, but that mob of followers, combined with a crop failure and/or trade embargo, will lead to famine and riots. There will be a bloody debacle, and then she will leave for Westeros, aided by the Kingdom of Dorne and a certain crooked dwarf from House Lannister. Their combined forces will sweep through war-torn southern Westeros, then encounter resistance at the neck from a newly reunited North, under Jon Stark and Stannis. The north will be hard-pressed from supernatural forces beyond the Wall, but in the end, Dany and Jon will forge an alliance, possibly through diplomatic marriage, and defeat the supernatural threat behind the Others.

Sounds likely, which means it probably won't happen that way. For one thing, this is Martin, expect the unexpected. For another, even with a different author, there are waaay too many variables for things to go that smoothly. What about the ironborn. *spoiler*

Euron Greyjoy in the next book shows up with a horn that can control dragons *end spoiler*


Faceless Men, the undead, the Warlocks, Red Priests, Littlefinger's machinations (a lot of people are counting him out at this point, saying he'll never be able to control the vale. I say you can never count out Littlefinger. ever. he's just too damn smart), whatever game Varys is playing, plus internal politics in Dorne, the Lannisters...

No way is it going to be as smooth for Dany as you're predicting.

[Mike Smash!]

The release date has been announced. It will be in stores on November 8th!

[Gordon Smith]

The release date has been announced. It will be in stores on November 8th!

So they say. Let's hope we actually see the darned book come out this year.

[Mike Smash!]

So they say. Let's hope we actually see the darned book come out this year.No, it's official. The book's been finished since May.

[Blueferret]

No, it's official. The book's been finished since May.


Yep. Martin's even got it listed on his site.

[Inkthinker]

I shouldn't expect any more delays at this point... once he's declared it done, then it's mostly just a matter of final assembly and proofing, and then print and distribute, all of which can be easily done in the next four months.

In fact, I'm surprised it's not coming a little sooner. But there's a new Pratchett in October if I'm not mistaken, so I suppose I can stand it...

:D

[Gordon Smith]

No, it's official. The book's been finished since May.


Glad to hear it.

[Blueferret]

I shouldn't expect any more delays at this point... once he's declared it done, then it's mostly just a matter of final assembly and proofing, and then print and distribute, all of which can be easily done in the next four months.

In fact, I'm surprised it's not coming a little sooner. But there's a new Pratchett in October if I'm not mistaken, so I suppose I can stand it...

:D


I think the delay in shipping has to do with Jordan. The new WOT comes out in early Oct. Despite the general consensus around here, he still sells a crapload of books.

[Inkthinker]

I think the delay in shipping has to do with Jordan. The new WOT comes out in early Oct. Despite the general consensus around here, he still sells a crapload of books.


Bah!! Put 'em head-to-head!! Martin can take 'im!!

:D

[DrDoomX]

Bah!! Put 'em head-to-head!! Martin can take 'im!!

:D

Exactly Martin does not waste 800 pages just to poison some one....He does that with in a few words.

[beryl]

Exactly Martin does not waste 800 pages just to poison some one....He does that with in a few words.

... and I re-read those lines in disbelief... followed by many curse words.

[DrDoomX]

... and I re-read those lines in disbelief... followed by many curse words.

I agree with you but for me it depends on who was poisoned...for a certain Lannister I did not curse...I jumped in joy!!! :D

[beryl]

This is the only book series where I've actually gotten so angry with rage/grief I was FUMING! PACING!... Before I picked up the book after I'd flung it against the wall(in some vain attempt to "fix" what had just happened). Needless to say in the course of the 3 books so far, it's happened often.. and I'm prepared to do it again with "Feast". I bought alot of wall spackle.

[Inkthinker]

I believe the only time I actually stopped reading in disbelief was the Red Wedding, which totally took me by surprise... of course, there's been many times where I did double-takes as I read, but that was one occasion where I put the book down and went, "whoa... damn".

[cactusmaac]

Who or what pulled you into this series and now that you're addicted, who have you hooked on it?

A lot of people here and at Millarworld seemed to be reading this.

I haven't read much prose fiction (apart from Pratchett) for a good long while and thought this was worth a shot.

Read A Game Of Thrones all in one day yesterday (my eyes are bleeding!) and am impatiently waiting for the next three.

My favourite characters are Jon, Arya and Eddard Stark. Jon and Arya because they're the most contemporary (I start feeling really left-wing when I read fantasy novels) and Eddard because he was the most decent guy in the books.

I'm a little disappointed he didn't get a POV chapter leading up to his execution.

[Mike Smash!]

A lot of people here and at Millarworld seemed to be reading this.

I haven't read much prose fiction (apart from Pratchett) for a good long while and thought this was worth a shot.

Read A Game Of Thrones all in one day yesterday (my eyes are bleeding!) and am impatiently waiting for the next three.

My favourite characters are Jon, Arya and Eddard Stark. Jon and Arya because they're the most contemporary (I start feeling really left-wing when I read fantasy novels) and Eddard because he was the most decent guy in the books.

I'm a little disappointed he didn't get a POV chapter leading up to his execution.I think they held off on Ned's POV there was that Martin wanted the reader to feel a sense of shock, anger and helplessness by seeing Arya's POV of it and her futile attempts to stop it.

Pretty powerful stuff.

Glad you're seeing just how addictive these books are.. I mean, my best friend's wife is hooked on them.

[Inkthinker]

I think they held off on Ned's POV there was that Martin wanted the reader to feel a sense of shock, anger and helplessness by seeing Arya's POV of it and her futile attempts to stop it.



That, and Arya's view is pretty similar to the crowd's POV, so you also get the same sense that you would if you were a part of the common crowd watching it unfold.

Joffrey's judgement of Ned is one of the more powerful moments in the series, I think... it definitely ranks in the top ten "holy crap" moments of the series.

[Blueferret]

I believe the only time I actually stopped reading in disbelief was the Red Wedding, which totally took me by surprise... of course, there's been many times where I did double-takes as I read, but that was one occasion where I put the book down and went, "whoa... damn".

Y'know, that last lines pretty much sums up what I've felt a low during this series so far. It's either "whoa... damn" or "Oh Sh@t!!!" I can't believe that just happened.

BRING ON NOVEMBER DAMMIT!!!

[saintjon]

"Whoah... damn." "Oh, SH!T" and I'd add "KILL THE BASTARDS!"

Like seriously when he foreshadows somebody getting their comeuppance I start hearing heavy metal riffs in my head and suppressing violent urges lol.

[Mike Smash!]

What I enjoy most about Martin is the way he thumbs his nose at the conventions of his genre.

He knows modern fantasy and it's cliches and its safety nets and he likes take advantage of your experience with other fantasy series' before reminding you in none-too-subtle ways that life really doesn't work out that way.

That you're never going to see a battle part so that two kings can engage in single combat. That most of the time, the prisoner is executed and doesn't make a daring prison escape. That most of the time, someone is more likely to die by choking on a chicken bone or taking a stray arrow in a battle than in a heroic way. That most of the time, people aren't easily classified as good guys and bad guys. That magic should be scary and weird. That your average peasant doesn't give a crap who the king is, so long as briggands aren't burning his fields or raping his daughter.

That, to paraphrase Littlefinger early on, life isn't a song.

[Valmore]

Joffrey's judgement of Ned is one of the more powerful moments in the series, I think... it definitely ranks in the top ten "holy crap" moments of the series.

I don't know - I was pretty much expecting Joffrey to off Eddard. I mean, Joffrey is a cruel little bastard that has ALL of the Lannister's flaws and then some. He's cruel, but he's also STUPID, unlike Tywin who was Cruel but very clever.

Which is what makes Tyrion such an interesting character - he's got all of the good points of the Lannisters, but lacks the infamous outer beauty. He's very intelligent and isn't really cruel by nature, and actually tries to be fair, unlike his father and sister.

[Mike Smash!]

I don't know - I was pretty much expecting Joffrey to off Eddard. I mean, Joffrey is a cruel little bastard that has ALL of the Lannister's flaws and then some. He's cruel, but he's also STUPID, unlike Tywin who was Cruel but very clever.

Which is what makes Tyrion such an interesting character - he's got all of the good points of the Lannisters, but lacks the infamous outer beauty. He's very intelligent and isn't really cruel by nature, and actually tries to be fair, unlike his father and sister.Tyrion's my favorite.

In many ways, he's his father except for two things: His stature and reputation and the fact that he has a heart.

Tywin's someone with no sentimentality whatsoever. His children are chess pieces to him and if he hurts someone in the process, them's the breaks.

With Tyrion, like you say, he tries to be fair and he'll act on behalf of helpless people or try to make amends for wrongs done upon them. Deep down, Tyrion's biggest weakness is his overwhelming desire to be loved. It cost him with Shae, it cost him with Bronn, with the Wildlings... where they probably all genuinely liked him, but they were there for his gold first and foremost.

And in his desire for appreciation and love, he'll show his hand and open his mouth, so that people can see how clever he is. Remember the small piece of praise he got at Joffrey's wedding feast about how he was the one to save King's Landing and how it put him on cloud nine.

Tyrion is capable of being quite clever and at times, ruthless, but he has a heart and a sense of fairness and compassion that his father never had. His trial in the third book remains one of the most painful sequences I've ever read, especially Shae's testimony.

Never before have I so related to and gotten angry or sad on the behalf of a fictional character, the way I did with Tyrion Lannister.

[beryl]

Yeh, I've got a soft spot for Tyrion. Hell, even Jaime too.

Sam and Tyrion Chapters kept my hopes up in Clash of Swords.

Now with "Feast" focusing primarily on the Seven Kingdoms, Whose chapters/characters are you guys lookin forward to reading?

[Valmore]

Ah, Martin's suckered you in on Jamie. It's an easy thing to do, too, after ASoS and seeing Jamie's perspective. But you have to remember, Jamie is also the one who stupidly and cruelly threw Brandon Stark off of a tower window for accidentally catching him and Cersi making love. He's an interesting character, but he's had his low points as well.

One of my favorite moments is early on in AGoT, when Tyrion tells Jon Snow that all dwarfs may be bastards but not all bastards need be dwarfs. Nice corollary between the two characters.

[Inkthinker]

I think Jaime's possible redemption is one of the longer-running themes of the series. His rejection of Cersei is, I think a strong indicator that he's attempting to change. And it's not as though he's hiding or denying the terrible things he's done, though he admits to himself a regret at the attempted murder of Bran. He's come a long way since Book 1, and I'm deeply interested in where he'll end up, even if it's dead in a ditch.

[Blueferret]

I think Jaime's possible redemption is one of the longer-running themes of the series. His rejection of Cersei is, I think a strong indicator that he's attempting to change. And it's not as though he's hiding or denying the terrible things he's done, though he admits to himself a regret at the attempted murder of Bran. He's come a long way since Book 1, and I'm deeply interested in where he'll end up, even if it's dead in a ditch.

I think you're right on the money there. I think the episode with Bran was intended to show just how evil/spiteful/vile Jaimie could and has been and when his final redemption comes, it'll be a 180. He's already shown hints of it in the Tower when he rejected Cersei and I have a feeling he going to end up either giving his life for Brienne or marrying her.

[Mike Smash!]

Ah, Martin's suckered you in on Jamie. It's an easy thing to do, too, after ASoS and seeing Jamie's perspective. But you have to remember, Jamie is also the one who stupidly and cruelly threw Brandon Stark off of a tower window for accidentally catching him and Cersi making love. He's an interesting character, but he's had his low points as well.

One of my favorite moments is early on in AGoT, when Tyrion tells Jon Snow that all dwarfs may be bastards but not all bastards need be dwarfs. Nice corollary between the two characters.I like Jaime.

I think he's a smart guy who's never had to be smart before, but he's learning. Before his maiming, he could always get by on his looks or his reputation as an unstoppable warrior and his complete confidence in both.

He's lost both of those and has to make up for it by really exercising his brain.

Yeah, he's done horrible things, and I have to admit, when I first saw his name heading the chapter, my first thought was "this asshole??". And yes, Jaime's an asshole, but he's one that's learning humility and honor for the first time, now that he's lost or given up the things that made him arrogant.

And I have to admit, the one thing about him that always kept him out of the same "bad guy" category with Cersei, Gregor and Tywin was the way he treated Tyrion with love and respect.

So yeah, you're right...Martin suckered me and he was damned skilled at it. But I like how he's changed Jaime while keeping him the same sarcastic prick.

[Inkthinker]

I think it helps that it seems like a psychologically believable change in character... here's a man who's lived a certain way his entire life, and might have gone on doing so, but an extremely traumatic event and his subsequent experiences are causing a significant but logical series of changes in how he thinks.

Had he not been tortured by Bolton's men, he would not know sympathy (for those who suffer at the hands of the powerful).

Had he not lost his swordhand (and hence his vaunted skills), he would not know humility (I'm banking that he becomes equally badass with his left, though, in time. Martin is already foreshadowing this).

Had he not travelled with Brienne, he would not know chivalry (and this may be his true salvation, for the other two alone might have allowed him to wallow in self-pity and anger, and made him more of a monster than he ever was... but his time with Brienne is showing him what he ought to be).

It's not been any one thing, but a whole series of events that are culminating in the reformation of Jaime Lannister, who began the series as a callous villian, but may end up a hero.

And that's some good writin', that is. Aspiring authors take note: this is how you write good character.

:D

[cactusmaac]

I do really like how Martin's shaded his characters so unlike say Aragorn, they're not all exemplars of nobility or completely evil bastards.

You have Jon harbouring resentment for his bastard status, Robb being irresponsible by marrying Jeyne and Tywin being known to be a loving husband who grew much colder when his wife died.

[Valmore]

I do really like how Martin's shaded his characters so unlike say Aragorn, they're not all exemplars of nobility or completely evil bastards.

You have Jon harbouring resentment for his bastard status, Robb being irresponsible by marrying Jeyne and Tywin being known to be a loving husband who grew much colder when his wife died.

Joffrey Baratheon was pretty much the closest thing to a completely evil bastard in the books, but one could argue that he was still a kid. A rather stupid kid, but still a kid. Dany's brother was pretty damn cruel and stupid, too, for all the good it did him. Pretty satisfying death there, I must say, even if it meant Dany's chapters got progressively more boring.

The most noble character? Possibly Davos. I like Davos, too.

[cactusmaac]

Viserys was an ass but was a believable ass given how he'd lost his entire family and inheritance and was forced to be the caretaker of his sister from a very early age. It's his rage and his drive that kept him going.

Joffrey seemed more like being a little turd than someone really evil. Gregor Clegane probably fits the evil tag best but I can live with there being one sociopath.

Most noble characters to me would be Eddard Stark, Stannis and Barristan Selmy.

[beryl]

Stannis? Ok, maybe initially but the Melisandre thing?

And Re: Jaime... Yeh, pretty much for all the points Ink Noted.

[Inkthinker]

Gregor Clegane probably fits the evil tag best...


Gregor? Or Sandor?

"The Hound", or "The Mountain That Rides"?

Because I think Gregor may have some opportunity for redemption as well (note his treatment of the Stark girls), and given that his brother Sandor is responsible for the deeply traumatic events of Gregor's childhood, I'd say that Sandor Clegane is way more evil than his brother. I'm not expecting the same level of reformation as Jaime, mind you... but I think we're not yet done with The Hound.

I think that very few of Martin's characters are totally "good" or "evil"... just like people, they have depth and shades to their personality.

[Valmore]

Viserys was an ass but was a believable ass given how he'd lost his entire family and inheritance and was forced to be the caretaker of his sister from a very early age. It's his rage and his drive that kept him going.

Joffrey seemed more like being a little turd than someone really evil. Gregor Clegane probably fits the evil tag best but I can live with there being one sociopath.

Most noble characters to me would be Eddard Stark, Stannis and Barristan Selmy.

Joffrey was definitely on his way to being evil - his constant chastisment of Sansa Stark in retaliation for her brother's battle wins; his treatment of his uncle Tyrion, including hacking up an expensive wedding gift because it was a book as well as trying to humiliate him; beheading Eddard Stark when he had promised to show mercy; he was almost ready to kill the Fool Florian just for being drunk during a tournament, had Sansa not interfered. Combined with what appeared to be an almost complete lack of any positive social graces... had Joffrey lived longer, he was probably going to be a pretty damn cruel and evil king.

I think you mean Gregor's brother, Sandor - the one who killed the Dornish infants, then raped the woman then killed her... amongst other horrendous things he's done. Gregor can be cruel, but he can also be kind in a rather cruel way.

[cactusmaac]

Was Joffrey responsible for Eddard's death?

I don't think he was capable of anything that Tywin and Cersei didn't approve of. I know Tywin was pissed because Joffrey fired Ser Barristan. Doubt whether something as important as Eddard's death would have simply been left to Joffrey.

And both you guys are mixing up the Cleganes. Sandor's the Hound, Gregor's the Mountain.

http://www.westeros.org/Heraldry/Clegane.html

[literally exaggerated]

I think you mean Gregor's brother, Sandor - the one who killed the Dornish infants, then raped the woman then killed her... amongst other horrendous things he's done. Gregor can be cruel, but he can also be kind in a rather cruel way.

Nope, Sandor Clegane is the Hound. He's an absolute fuckup, but he's had his moments of goodness, and did save Arya's life and rode with her for a while.

Gregor's the one who burned his little brother for playing with a toy knight, who killed his father, then all of his wives, who raped and murdered Elia of Dorne and killed her children, who crushed Oberyn's head after one of the best fights of all time.

[Valmore]

Damnit, I hate it when I get my Cleganes mixed up. I'm going to start reading with a crib sheet to keep everything in order. You're both right, though.

Was Joffrey responsible for Eddard's death?

I don't think he was capable of anything that Tywin and Cersei didn't approve of. I know Tywin was pissed because Joffrey fired Ser Barristan. Doubt whether something as important as Eddard's death would have simply been left to Joffrey.

Dead Eddard Stark has no use other than symbolic. Tywin and Cersei know that a cowed foe is much more useful. Having Eddard admit he was a traitor and having to live with it would have brought him down low and make it harder to inspire others. Then having him serve on The Wall would be useful, since he'd help fortify that place and, since he's still one to try and keep whatever honor he has, he probably wouldn't rebel from there. That's much more useful.

Joffrey was stupid and thought he had to make a great show of killing a traitor without knowing the better use for a cowed foe. I don't think either Tywin and Cersei didn't approve of having Eddard dead after the fact, but they probably would rather have had him alive. And since Joffrey was king, it would have been bad form for the Queen Regent or the Hand to speak up against the king's decision in a public execution.

[Inkthinker]

I'm pretty sure one of the Lannister chapters has an internal dialogue cursing Joffrey for executing Ned. I think it's pretty clear that it was done in childish pique rather than plotted... As mentioned, Ned was more useful as a traitor on the Wall, rather than as a martyr to rally the North behind.

Sandor, Gregor... dammit, this is why it's easier to refer to them as The Hound or The Mountain.

And the Mountain strikes me as one evil, evil man, but we haven't had much insight into his character beyond the viewpoints of others.

[cactusmaac]

Yeah, I went back and reread Game of Thrones.

Joffrey is the one who did it over the objections of Varys and Cersei.

[Blueferret]

I'm pretty sure one of the Lannister chapters has an internal dialogue cursing Joffrey for executing Ned. I think it's pretty clear that it was done in childish pique rather than plotted... As mentioned, Ned was more useful as a traitor on the Wall, rather than as a martyr to rally the North behind.

Sandor, Gregor... dammit, this is why it's easier to refer to them as The Hound or The Mountain.

And the Mountain strikes me as one evil, evil man, but we haven't had much insight into his character beyond the viewpoints of others.

I think that was Tyrion who was internally cursing Joffrey.

On another note, did you see that the UK release is Oct.17th?

[cactusmaac]

Another further motivation beyond love for Rhaegar to die fighting for Lyanna would be the passages from Dany's vision in book 2 that suggest Rhaegar stumbled on some prophecy or other (he was pretty bookish until he read one thing in an obscure book and then he went about learning warfare), when he's standing over a childbed (IMO Lyanna's the mom) and says something "He is the one that was promised, his is the song of ice and fire"

And really who else but a half Stark half Tagaryen would embody ice and fire?

I think the child was his wife's since he was called Aegon (same name as his son) and I think Lyanna died in childbirth when Rhaegar was already dead.

[cactusmaac]

Here's spoilers from the first chapters of the next two books.

Looks like there's going to be a heavy focus on Dorne.

http://p080.ezboard.com/fasoiaffrm2.showMessage?topicID=3747.topic

From Jaime I


Jaime remembers his anger at Tywin after the sack of King's Landing then muses about his own victories and defeats. In the morning they all look the same - a feast for crows.

[Roquefort Raider]

Scroll down to the publisher line and look at the publication date!!! :D

A feast for crows (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0002247429/ref=ed_oe_p/002-6020489-9504013?v=glance&st=*)


...some people seem to be fed up with rescheduling!!!

[Valmore]

Scroll down to the publisher line and look at the publication date!!! :D

A feast for crows (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0002247429/ref=ed_oe_p/002-6020489-9504013?v=glance&st=*)


...some people seem to be fed up with rescheduling!!!

That... is hilarious.

2009... and yet, sometimes you wonder...

[Shellhead]

That... is hilarious.

2009... and yet, sometimes you wonder...

That's the publication date for the paperback. Maybe they're forcing everybody to pay hardcover prices or wait years for paperback.

[cactusmaac]

That's strange.

Amazon UK has the paperback coming out in May 2006.

[Shellhead]

That's strange.

Amazon UK has the paperback coming out in May 2006.

2006 sounds more reasonable than 2009, but how are they going to exploit the hardcover sales for serious profits if the paperback edition comes out so quickly?

[Lame Duck !]

I have one thing to say about these books, there so good they literally make other books in my collection degrade in quality.

[Inkthinker]

I have one thing to say about these books, there so good they literally make other book in my collection degrade in quality.


Hahhaaaaaa.... :D

"Yeah, this other book here was pretty good, but then I put these Martin books on the shelf next to it, and it got all shabby and poorly-written."

It's not the books, man, it's your tastes improving. :D

[Lame Duck !]

Damn you Inkthinker ! That was a pretty good retort, but I guess your right. I do love these books though. The hound will have his day..... or so I hope. He may not receive complete redemption, but he does have some good in him.

[davidboring]

If you like this series, you need to see some of the comic strips on this link. Pretty funny.

ASOFAI ART (http://www.winterfell.altervista.org/img.htm)

[Inkthinker]

If you like this series, you need to see some of the comic strips on this link. Pretty funny.

ASOFAI ART (http://www.winterfell.altervista.org/img.htm)


Gets a lot of the details right... drops the ball a little by using so much direct photoreferencing. I like the little strips, though, they're cute.

:D

[saintjon]

some of the manga renditions were pretty good, but is manga ever too pretty looking for this story.

[MKTerra]

Pretty cool :)

[ouiyahtsiouiyah]

Scroll down to the publisher line and look at the publication date!!! :D

A feast for crows (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0002247429/ref=ed_oe_p/002-6020489-9504013?v=glance&st=*)


...some people seem to be fed up with rescheduling!!!

Who's those people on the cover? Pretty sure Jon is on the bottom left.

Just Finished Swords.
Robb was my favorite character.

I thought forsure he was gonna kick some northern ass, then some Lannister ass, then some Dragon ass with his fathers greatsword Ice. Ice got melted down...heh.

Greywind got his head sewed off and on. Doesn't that just piss you off? I wanna reach inside the book and strangle House Frey.

Im only rooting for Jon and Arya now. Unless they die.

Stannis seems like he's the savior but he's the real enemy.
Davos died right?

I'm glad Jon did not forsake the old Gods for Melisandre even if I almost wanted him to become Lord of Winterfell.
Rickon will comeback as a badass with wilding Northman and direwolf traing take back Winterfell. Unless he dies.

Bran will help from on nigh with the 3 eyed crow.

Caitlyn knows Arya is alive right? She's gotta know.

Hope Boltons get killed.

Hope Iron Lords get killed.

Hope Caitlyn kills Littlefinger for betraying Eddard.

Hope Jaime gets tortured and killed for pushing Bran.

Hope something horrible bad stuff happens to House Frey. Don't know what but its gotta be bad. Need some help for some ideas.

The Jon Parent's Theory is substantial. Rheagar don't seem that bad a guy.

Robert Baratheon called the banners because Rheagar "stole" Lyanna right? Their relationship caused the downfall of the Targaryns, that and what Ares did to the Starks?

Glad Ghost came back.

Glad Ser Gergor is dying

Hoping some time skips so Arya, Bran, and Rickon, and the Dragons can become fully badass. Unless they all die.

Whats a Bloody Mummer? Or a Mummers Face?

Who else can die that we don't want to die?

[Haydn C]

My friend Bob just phoned to gloat that he has picked up his copy of A Feast for Crows from the book shop.
We don't have it yet here in my god forsaken little town. Anyone else got a copy yet?

[cactusmaac]

It isn't out till the 17th I think.

[Haydn C]

Now that's what I thought but he bought it lunchtime today at Ottakers in Putney.

My good lady wife works in Camden so I'll ask her to check around tomorrow.

Anyway, it appears as if some places have it already if you can't wait until Monday.

[Inkthinker]

Man, I can't believe that we gotta wait a month still. Killing, KILLING me here!!

[Inkthinker]

Stannis seems like he's the savior but he's the real enemy.
Davos died right?


No... indeed, Davos Seaworth became Hand to Stannis, and I think he's running Storm's End while Stannis is North. I'm hoping that we'll get some Davos chapters in the next book.


Caitlyn knows Arya is alive right? She's gotta know.


I think it remains to be seen what Caitlin knows, now... but wasn't Beric suffering from memory issues from his repeated resurrections?


Whats a Bloody Mummer? Or a Mummers Face?


A "mummer" is like a jester or a clown, unless I'm mistaken. A "mummer's face" would be a mask that a clown or jester would wear, probably intended to be humourous but ends up being creepy-scary.


Who else can die that we don't want to die?

Martin's proven that he'll do anyone, anytime it serves the plot. Can't take your eyes off him for a moment, he's a sneaky one.

[The Gunslinger]

Is their any place on the web, where i can get a good rundown what happen in the last three book? I don't have the time to read all three books again, before the fourth comes out.

[cactusmaac]

Man, I can't believe that we gotta wait a month still. Killing, KILLING me here!!

You could buy it from Amazon UK.

[Blueferret]

You could buy it from Amazon UK.

Do they ship to the U.S. on something like this or is there some sort of embargo?

[Inkthinker]

The exchange rate between the dollar and the pound doesn't favor importing it, espescially after factoring in the shipping...

I'll just have to suffer for a little longer. *sigh*

[cactusmaac]

Do they ship to the U.S. on something like this or is there some sort of embargo?

Wouldn't think so.

[cactusmaac]

My Amazon order of Feast just shipped so I guess it's out early.

[Mike Smash!]

My Amazon order of Feast just shipped so I guess it's out early.Not as far as I can tell. Maybe your copy is taking the scenic to your home. :)

[Haydn C]

It's out early in most shops in London but little sign of it else where.
Got mine yesterday, it's huge!

[Tobias March]

Only one store that I know of ordered it in. Strange. Perhaps it was the shifting release dates that created confusion?

[cactusmaac]

Got my copy in the post today.

[ratzo]

Got mine yesterday, it's huge!

Swords was over 1100 pages. How long is this?

[cactusmaac]

Shorter.

Only about 697.

[Expletive Deleted]

Of course, that's with half the original book removed and turned into the next installment.

[Haydn C]

Only about 697.

True but still big enough. I dropped it the other day and nearly killed my cat. Missed her by a nose. She now seems to think I'm out to get her.

[literally exaggerated]

grrr...lucky british bastards, i have to wait like 2 weeks.

[ouiyahtsiouiyah]

only 697? ahh I am gonna fly thru this one, not cuz Im super badass cuz Martin is Superbadass

[cactusmaac]

About a third though it and I'd have to say this is the best-written one so far.

Very little filler or slow, meandering passages.

[Haydn C]

I agree with you there. With some of the previous books I found myself almost skim reading certain chapters. Not this time though.

The decision to seperate this volume of the story into two books seems like the right one to me so far.

[Tobias March]

Arg! Won't someone talk about it :confused: I'm still waiting to finish up some other stuff before I get stuck in.

[Inkthinker]

Got mine tonight, which was quite a surprise... I didn't think the street date here in the States was for another couple weeks, but my baby got me a reader copy from her Borders. I'm so happy... *sniff*

I can't wait to dig in... we're gonna need a spoilers thread before too long.

:D

[Inkthinker]

Shorter.

Only about 697.



My copy (which I believe is a straight US retail version, since it has an ISBN and price on the dust jacket) comes out to 684 pages of story, and about another 40+ pages of the usual House listing and Dramatis Personae, as well as a bonus Dany chapter at the end which I haven't yet looked at ('cause I haven't even started yet), so I don't know if it's one of the chapters that he published previously on his site.

It doesn't seem slim though, and I wonder how the page count bears up against the other hardbound versions. It seems likely that when it's converted to paperback the page count will increase more than a bit.

[cactusmaac]

Yeah, I put the wrong number down.

I finished my copy last night.

I'll wait a while before putting up a spoiler thread though.

Not much point until more people have read it.

[Inkthinker]

I checked my paperback copies, and they don't go much beyond 800-900 pages either... so I don't think we're getting shorted in any way.

I'm also pleased to see that he's not completely skipping out on Jon or Arya in this volume...

[Mike Smash!]

I'm about 150 pages into the preview copy I just got from work. I am enjoying it VERY much.

[Expletive Deleted]

Two more days . . .

[Donald M.]

I can't wait to get my hands on this book, but it kills me that I'll get no more of my favorite character until the next book! I know there's a good reason for it, but still, arrgh!

It almost makes me sorry to have gotten involved with the series in the first place. Almost. Still, then next book is supposedly mostly written, so at least it probably won't be a five year wait.