Why I'm No Longer a Kevin Smith fan

[berkovw]

I used to be a Kevin Smith fan, but the cavalier attitude he has toward his work and his fans really pisses me off. The interview he just did with CBR just made it worse. Here's the quote:

"Do you have any new comics work coming up?

Not really. I finally finished off that "Spider-Man/Black Cat" series and people got off my dick. [laughs] I did kind of a Clerks comic [to be published by Graphitti Designs] that comes out soon that takes [Dante and Randal] from the Quickstop to Mooby's, showing how they got their job. It begins where the Quickstop burns down and shows what happened for the rest of that month."

Let me see. Kevin Smith thinks that fans were "on his dick" just because they had to wait 3.5 years between issues of a book that was supposed to be monthly. How about that Kevin Smith fans? He doesn't want you "on his dick", so just get off his back about any sort of promises or contracts he makes to the fans!

I got one question fat ass! Where the hell is the rest of the Daredevil: The Target miniseries you should have finished 4 years ago? All right, I'm sorry, I'll "get off your dick."

Does this kind of rank arrogance from this jerk-off piss anyone else off?

[Dennis K]

I used to be a Kevin Smith fan, but the cavalier attitude he has toward his work and his fans really pisses me off. The interview he just did with CBR just made it worse. Here's the quote:

"Do you have any new comics work coming up?

Not really. I finally finished off that "Spider-Man/Black Cat" series and people got off my dick. [laughs] I did kind of a Clerks comic [to be published by Graphitti Designs] that comes out soon that takes [Dante and Randal] from the Quickstop to Mooby's, showing how they got their job. It begins where the Quickstop burns down and shows what happened for the rest of that month."

Let me see. Kevin Smith thinks that fans were "on his dick" just because they had to wait 3.5 years between issues of a book that was supposed to be monthly. How about that Kevin Smith fans? He doesn't want you "on his dick", so just get off his back about any sort of promises or contracts he makes to the fans!

I got one question fat ass! Where the hell is the rest of the Daredevil: The Target miniseries you should have finished 4 years ago? All right, I'm sorry, I'll "get off your dick."

Does this kind of rank arrogance from this jerk-off piss anyone else off?


... and you are?

[Michael P]

You say "rank arrogance," I say "self-deprecating humor."

And ultimately, I don't really give two shits whether or not he's doing any more comics work, so I guess the answer to your question is "No."

[drwho]

I've got no respect for the guy let him make his movies and stay out of comics. I'll never buy a mini with his name on it again.

[Spackling Compound]

... and you are?
Some body who doesn't want to get off the dick, obviously.


And, I don't get Kevin Smith, to merge with the other thread.

Clerks was funny. Everything else is fanfic and a celluloid version of a lesser Cracked Mazagine.

[Paul McEnery]

I used to be a Kevin Smith fan, but the cavalier attitude he has toward his work and his fans really pisses me off. The interview he just did with CBR just made it worse. Here's the quote:

"Do you have any new comics work coming up?

Not really. I finally finished off that "Spider-Man/Black Cat" series and people got off my dick. [laughs] I did kind of a Clerks comic [to be published by Graphitti Designs] that comes out soon that takes [Dante and Randal] from the Quickstop to Mooby's, showing how they got their job. It begins where the Quickstop burns down and shows what happened for the rest of that month."

Let me see. Kevin Smith thinks that fans were "on his dick" just because they had to wait 3.5 years between issues of a book that was supposed to be monthly. How about that Kevin Smith fans? He doesn't want you "on his dick", so just get off his back about any sort of promises or contracts he makes to the fans!

I got one question fat ass! Where the hell is the rest of the Daredevil: The Target miniseries you should have finished 4 years ago? All right, I'm sorry, I'll "get off your dick."

Does this kind of rank arrogance from this jerk-off piss anyone else off?

Jay, is that you?

[Fabian]

It's amazing how many people think creators owe them.

[Ed Cunard]

It's amazing how many people think creators owe them.

After five or so years spent on the internerd, I'm no longer amazed by it--show me a new trick, dammit.

[StoneGold]

It's amazing how many people think creators owe them.
Well, technically he kind of does owe us the rest of the Target mini. Or Marvel, anyways. But to still be angry over all this time? That's pushing it.

[howyadoin]

Just outta curiosity, are you familiar with Smith's work at all? Because the things he said are pretty much in keeping with the sense of humour and the attitude expressed in his movies.

[hoffmandu]

Meh, never really thought to much of the guys comic work anyway. His films? Yeah, pretty damn funny, but lets face it, witty banter and quality are not the same thing.

[Paul McEnery]

Just outta curiosity, are you familiar with Smith's work at all? Because the things he said are pretty much in keeping with the sense of humour and the attitude expressed in his movies.
He might be, if Kevin ever finished his comic books... :D

[howyadoin]

He might be, if Kevin ever finished his comic books... :DOr, y'know, he might've seen Clerks, Mallrats, Chasing Amy, Dogma, Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back...


Actually, the last one alone should make my point. Take a look at the scenes where Jay is ranting about idiots on the internet.

[drwho]

He might be, if Kevin ever finished his comic books... :D


Another Hollywood hotshot that is disrespectful to the comic industry. Stay in Hollywood don't commit to something you have no interest in completing.

[Ray R.]

Another Hollywood hotshot that is disrespectful to the comic industry. Stay in Hollywood don't commit to something you have no interest in completing.

Personally, I'd consider Kevin Smith's entire contribution to comics somewhere in the neighborhood of Topps' "NFL Superpro," give or take.

[Paul McEnery]

Or, y'know, he might've seen Clerks, Mallrats, Chasing Amy, Dogma, Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back...


Actually, the last one alone should make my point. Take a look at the scenes where Jay is ranting about idiots on the internet.
Oh, absolutely.

Hey, did anyone here actually see Jersey Girl?

[Reptisaurus!]

Three and a half years? You lucky bastard.

I've been waiting ten years for new Beanworld stuff!

[darkkeeperjr]

Oh, absolutely.

Hey, did anyone here actually see Jersey Girl?

Yeah it come on encore a couple of weeks ago. I thought it was pretty good.

[hangmanjury]

I saw Jersey Girl.

And yes, I liked Jersey Girl.

[Paul McEnery]

It's all about Jennifer Lopez in a tight sweater, isn't it?

[Ed Cunard]

Three and a half years? You lucky bastard.

I've been waiting ten years for new Beanworld stuff!

There's an obvious difference--BEANWORLD is worth waiting for.

[hangmanjury]

It's all about Jennifer Lopez in a tight sweater, isn't it?
No no no.

More like Liv Tyler in whatever the hell Liv Tyler is wearing.

And also, I have a nephew who at the time of the movie was turning seven. I'm especially close to him, and watching Ben Affleck's relationship with his onscreen daughter was something I could really relate to.

[IamtheRock3]

yea keven wasnt that serious

cause in anothe article he basicly said

"I cant even say OH it just those net fanboys because it been YEARS sense it came out"

[Calybos]

It's amazing how many people think creators owe them.
Actually, once a contract is signed and promises made... they do.

If you promise a monthly title and can't deliver, you deserve scorn and contempt. Don't promise what you can't do.

[Tadhg Adams]

Actually, once a contract is signed and promises made... they do.

If you promise a monthly title and can't deliver, you deserve scorn and contempt. Don't promise what you can't do.

If any contracts were signed it was with Marvel, not the fans, and if anyone made promises(mostly via solicitations) it was Marvel, not Smith. Smith sucks, I'm not a fan, and he's not blamless but the amount of vitriol spewed in the first post made me cringe and really the bulk of the blame is with Marvel for solicting books they didn't have.

[Slam_Bradley]

Oh, absolutely.

Hey, did anyone here actually see Jersey Girl?


I'm waiting for the other two parts of the trilogy, Guersey Girl and Holstein Girl.

[IamtheRock3]

If any contracts were signed it was with Marvel, not the fans, and if anyone made promises(mostly via solicitations) it was Marvel, not Smith. Smith sucks, I'm not a fan, and he's not blamless but the amount of vitriol spewed in the first post made me cringe and really the bulk of the blame is with Marvel for solicting books they didn't have.


To be fair they solicti books thinking I he finish it in..I dont know with in this Decade.

I know we should never assume...But it a fair assumtion

But Again Keven basicly admited it was a bad delay

[Jack Zodiac]

I used to be a Kevin Smith fan, but the cavalier attitude he has toward his work and his fans really pisses me off. The interview he just did with CBR just made it worse. Here's the quote:

"Do you have any new comics work coming up?

Not really. I finally finished off that "Spider-Man/Black Cat" series and people got off my dick. [laughs] I did kind of a Clerks comic [to be published by Graphitti Designs] that comes out soon that takes [Dante and Randal] from the Quickstop to Mooby's, showing how they got their job. It begins where the Quickstop burns down and shows what happened for the rest of that month."

Let me see. Kevin Smith thinks that fans were "on his dick" just because they had to wait 3.5 years between issues of a book that was supposed to be monthly. How about that Kevin Smith fans? He doesn't want you "on his dick", so just get off his back about any sort of promises or contracts he makes to the fans!

I got one question fat ass! Where the hell is the rest of the Daredevil: The Target miniseries you should have finished 4 years ago? All right, I'm sorry, I'll "get off your dick."

Does this kind of rank arrogance from this jerk-off piss anyone else off?

I agree... sorta'. He's a horrible comic book writer. Not just because he misses deadlines with no consequence, but because the stories he writes suck. You'd figure that a three year gap between issues would raise the quality a bit. And I have no idea when I'll ever get an issue two of Target. That was written and published right before the movie came out, wasn't it?

Anyway, as a comic book writer, I think he's a louse. As a writer/director, though, he's still got it. I didn't think I'd like "Clerks II," given that he said he was done with those character and that line of movies, but he completely complimented the original. It was very good.

But yeah, he's one lazy bastard of a comic book writer.

[Paul McEnery]

I'm waiting for the other two parts of the trilogy, Guersey Girl and Holstein Girl.
And then the fourth movie in the trilogy: St. Pauli Girl!

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

I'm waiting for the other two parts of the trilogy, Guersey Girl and Holstein Girl.

I herd (groan) that about you.

[Athena Bast]

Marvel is just as culpable in Kevin Smith comic debacle. They should not have gone to press with Issue 1 without have scripts for the subsequent issues in their possession.

Here's my take...

Stick with movies Kevin, don't write comics.

Or.. Marvel/DC don't begin doing artwork or publishing a mini-series/storyarc from him unless you have all the scripts for all the issues. It makes you look just as retarded as the writer.

Still gonna see Kevin Smith movies because that's why I like Kevin Smith.

[DonC]

Or.. Marvel/DC don't begin doing artwork or publishing a mini-series/storyarc from him unless you have all the scripts for all the issues. It makes you look just as retarded as the writer.


DC did this with Smith's lousy run on Green Arrow. Didn't solict until they had, I believe, 5 of the 8 issues done.

'Course the book still wound up late, but delays with Smith are to be expected. He is a lazy comic writer. I believe it was Mark Waid who said if it takes longer than three days to write a comic book, you're doing something wrong.

[Jack Zodiac]

'Course the book still wound up late, but delays with Smith are to be expected. He is a lazy comic writer. I believe it was Mark Waid who said if it takes longer than three days to write a comic book, you're doing something wrong.

Really?

Shit... :(

[SUPERECWFAN1]

DC was smart though. They made damn sure he had a lot of Green Arrow done before they even launched the series. I believe he had 12 issues done by the time they started it.

Marvel however and Joe Quesada saw Smith's name value and threw caution at the wind . They are to blame for the general stupid move to put Kevin Smith on 2 mini-series he didn't finish and then sign him !

They signed him and advertised he'd take over Amazing Spiderman which NEVER HAPPENED. He's just someone Marvel f-cked up by signing to an exclusive to beat DC from getting him to do Brave & the Bold and they fucked themselves.

[Jack Zodiac]

Oh yeah! I forgot he was supposed to do The Brave and the Bold. Wasn't he also supposed to do the new What If... ?, too?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Oh yeah! I forgot he was supposed to do The Brave and the Bold. Wasn't he also supposed to do the new What If... ?, too?


He was supposed to launch the new Brave & the Bold series. He was wanting to do a Green Arrow/Batman arc at some point as he said. Of course DC was relunctant to really confirm the title til he had the stuff done ala his GA run which the final couple issues were late.

In the mean time Joe Quesada who really was pretty stupied wanted Smith back at Marvel because he had name value and to tie into the DD movie had him do that and the Spiderman/Blackcat series. Of course even with the books late a year , it didn't stop JQ from inking him to an exclusive , tossing money at the air to stop Smith from going DC again because Dido was signing everyone at that point . He then said that Smith would do Amazing Spiderman and finish the arc in 2003/2004 I believe. It was in Wizard as Smith hyped up his run.

I never knew he was supposed to launch a What If series at Marvel.

In a funny statement in a recent Wizard article about Exclusive deals with talents and all , Waid said that certain people ( possibly a hint towards Smith odds are ) don't deserve the contract because they really don't produce the work to bring readers to the table.

[Michael P]

I believe it was Mark Waid who said if it takes longer than three days to write a comic book, you're doing something wrong.
This probably doesn't mean anything, but I was able to do my Yellowjacket/Wasp scripts, soup to nuts, in two and change. That doesn't count plotting, though.

[Spike-X]

Really?

Shit... :(
I imagine that would mean once you've got the hang of it.

[meethraa]

I believe it was Mark Waid who said if it takes longer than three days to write a comic book, you're doing something wrong.
As far as asinine comments go....

[Boldido]

DC did this with Smith's lousy run on Green Arrow. Didn't solict until they had, I believe, 5 of the 8 issues done.

'Course the book still wound up late, but delays with Smith are to be expected. He is a lazy comic writer. I believe it was Mark Waid who said if it takes longer than three days to write a comic book, you're doing something wrong.

In fairness to Smith, his work is very heavy with dialogue, much more so than Waid. If you are writing a lot of action and not much dialogue, of course it will write faster.

I personally loved his work on Green Arrow and am a huge fan of his films. The interview is a classic example of Smith's personality.

[Jack Zodiac]

In fairness to Smith, his work is very heavy with dialogue, much more so than Waid. If you are writing a lot of action and not much dialogue, of course it will write faster.

I personally loved his work on Green Arrow and am a huge fan of his films. The interview is a classic example of Smith's personality.

In fairness to Waid, he may not be dialogue-heavy, but that's probably because he doesn't add dozens of random gay jokes in every issue he writes.

[howyadoin]

And then the fourth movie in the trilogy: St. Pauli Girl!Who gets to play the beer wench?

[Dan Apodaca]

In fairness to Smith, his work is very heavy with dialogue, much more so than Waid. If you are writing a lot of action and not much dialogue, of course it will write faster.

But he doesn't write more, he just divides more. Suddenly a four-line conversation becomes an eight-line exchange, with each character starting their pre-written response right on the tail of the other's. It's decompression. It's padding. It's fluff. Empty space.

[Boldido]

In fairness to Waid, he may not be dialogue-heavy, but that's probably because he doesn't add dozens of random gay jokes in every issue he writes.

I wasn't attacking Waid at all. I love Waid's work, but his is a very different style from Smith.

[Jack Zodiac]

I wasn't attacking Waid at all. I love Waid's work, but his is a very different style from Smith.

I know, I wasn't really defending Waid either. I was just trying to point out what Dan did, albeit a whole lot cruder. :p

[Valmore]

I'd be much more angry with Kevin Smith if it hadn't been for Joe Madueria taking laziness in the comics industry to a whole new level, practically making it an art form.

And if I actually read any of Smith's comics.

[Tadhg Adams]

I'd be much more angry with Kevin Smith if it hadn't been for Joe Madueria taking laziness in the comics industry to a whole new level, practically making it an art form.

And if I actually read any of Smith's comics.

Wasn't Wagner out Madding Mad before Mad was even in comics?

[Valmore]

Wasn't Wagner out Madding Mad before Mad was even in comics?

Quite possibly, but man, was Joey Mad lazy. I mean, when Wizard interviewed him that one time, they found out he'd been playing Crash Bandicoot or some other game.

At least Smith was working on a movie or two. Mad was just playing video games.

[howyadoin]

Quite possibly, but man, was Joey Mad lazy. I mean, when Wizard interviewed him that one time, they found out he'd been playing Crash Bandicoot or some other game.

At least Smith was working on a movie or two. Mad was just playing video games.Did Battle Chasers ever get finished?

[Valmore]

Did Battle Chasers ever get finished?

No, as I recall, he didn't even finish an issue that had been solicited in Previews - #9, I think. He went off to join a video game company, which I think has since gone belly-up.

[meethraa]

No, as I recall, he didn't even finish an issue that had been solicited in Previews - #9, I think. He went off to join a video game company, which I think has since gone belly-up.
Brian Hitch will soon be considered the fastest artist alive...

[Reptisaurus!]

DC did this with Smith's lousy run on Green Arrow. Didn't solict until they had, I believe, 5 of the 8 issues done.

'Course the book still wound up late, but delays with Smith are to be expected. He is a lazy comic writer. I believe it was Mark Waid who said if it takes longer than three days to write a comic book, you're doing something wrong.

Unless you're doing something more than churning out genre hackwork. If yer, say, Alan Moore or Neil Gaiman I wager it takes a little longer.

[Pól Rua]

Of course, it doesn't help when you submit a script and it gets approved and then, the publisher says "Hey, see how you've got Black Cat getting raped in this last issue, can you change that?"
With 'The Evil That Men Do', Smith submitted script outlines which were approved. Late in the day, Marvel gets cold feet and decides they need re-writes done.
Tough shit.
This isn't Smith's 'day job'. If they wanted changes, there was a time and place to make them. Dude had a window of opportunity and realized he was a slow worker, so got the stuff submitted and signed off on ahead of time.
Not his problem.

[Kaos]

rah smith is my nigga man, fools shouldn't be tripping he's got bare on his plate

[Jack Zodiac]

What the fuck? :confused:

[howyadoin]

Unless you're doing something more than churning out genre hackwork. If yer, say, Alan Moore or Neil Gaiman I wager it takes a little longer.*golf clap*

[Joe Rice]

*golf clap*

There's some comics that if they were written in three days I'd be horrified. Well, not really "horrified" but internet horrified.

[howyadoin]

internet horrifiedWhat are the symptoms of that?

[Joe Rice]

What are the symptoms of that?

Going, "BLAAEAK!" while reading something but forgetting it by the time you talk to a real person.

[spoon_jenkins]

It's amazing how many people think creators owe them.
To me, it's amazing how some people place creators on a pedestal where they don't have to be respectful/responsibility towards us mere mortals. They're just people; they should be treated consistently like other people.

The guy is upset that he spent money on a something that was supposed to be delivered as a complete story in a timely fashion. Why does he get bashed for criticizing the lofty auteur? And this is just the place to complain about it - a comics forum. If not here, then where?

Let's say someone (or some group) sat down at a restaurant to have a meal. They order all their courses. They get their appetizer. Then, they get their salad. Then, they wait. No entree. They wait some more. They keep waiting. Eventually, way beyond the standards in the restaurant industry, their entree finally arrives. Would it be unreasonable for them to go to a restaurant aficianadoes website complaining about the service and saying they wouldn't go there again?

The poster who started the thread makes a reasonable point. Rather than just disagreeing with him, folks take potshots at him. :mad:

[Jeff Brady]

The poster who started the thread makes a reasonable point. Rather than just disagreeing with him, folks take potshots at him. :mad:

Potshots were taken because he was insulted by KS's self-depricating remark, and failed to interperet it as such.

[gary bolt]

I've been waiting 20 years for Mike Kaluta and Elaine Lee to do the next issue of Starstruck. Bruscilla the Muscle where are you?!

[howyadoin]

I've been waiting 20 years for Mike Kaluta and Elaine Lee to do the next issue of Starstruck. Bruscilla the Muscle where are you?!What? No barely-coherent rant?

[gary bolt]

What? No barely-coherent rant?

By all rights it should be fairly incoherent - I meant to post on the "How late is to Late" thread.

[Pól Rua]

Three and a half years? You lucky bastard.

I've been waiting ten years for new Beanworld stuff!

I'm with Reptisaurus! We demands more Beanworld! Whither Mister Spook and Proffy? Beanish and the Look*See*Show? Whither Dreamishness?
Gah!

[howyadoin]

By all rights it should be fairly incoherent - I mean to post on the "How late is to Late" thread.Hah! Nice!

[DoubleShot]

I like Kevin Smiths work. Sure he really and I mean REALLY needs to work on his directing skills but the movies are still watchable. Reading his scripts while in film school and comparing them to how he shot them taught me a lot. The guy can definatly write but directing not so much.

[Fabian]

To me, it's amazing how some people place creators on a pedestal where they don't have to be respectful/responsibility towards us mere mortals. They're just people; they should be treated consistently like other people.

The guy is upset that he spent money on a something that was supposed to be delivered as a complete story in a timely fashion. Why does he get bashed for criticizing the lofty auteur? And this is just the place to complain about it - a comics forum. If not here, then where?

Let's say someone (or some group) sat down at a restaurant to have a meal. They order all their courses. They get their appetizer. Then, they get their salad. Then, they wait. No entree. They wait some more. They keep waiting. Eventually, way beyond the standards in the restaurant industry, their entree finally arrives. Would it be unreasonable for them to go to a restaurant aficianadoes website complaining about the service and saying they wouldn't go there again?

The poster who started the thread makes a reasonable point. Rather than just disagreeing with him, folks take potshots at him. :mad:
I don't hold creators on a pedestool and in the end I see it as entertainment. Someone paid for the issue that they're holding and they get the amount of entertainment on that issue. If the story never finished, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. Simply don't buy books from that person/company again and the problem is solved.

Also, the person who made the thread was mainly complaining about Smith's comments which they didn't understand the context they were in.

As for the restaurant deal, it's a different scenario as it's something you ordered yourself and are not being offered it. It's more like going to say McDonalds and they run out of hamburgers or fries or something. You don't stay there for hours and bitch at them, you go to the other joint across the street.

[Dennis K]

Some body who doesn't want to get off the dick, obviously.


This is even funnier now that the title of the thread has been changed.

[Nate C.]

Potshots were taken because he was insulted by KS's self-depricating remark, and failed to interperet it as such.

It wasn't self-depricating. It was fan-depricating.


As for my opinion of Kevin Smith as a comic book writer. He's good. damn good.

When Daredevil started over, (volume 2) Smith did a bang-up job on the first 8, 9 issues. (can't remember exactly.) Great story, great dialogue, great delivery. The only problem I had was that he didn't stick around. If he had cranked out 80 issues, people on the net would be slobbering over him, not Bendis. But then, Hollywood came calling with even more money and even more high profile gigs. I can't blame him for taking a ten dollar job instead of a two dollar job. I can blame him for not taking personal responsibility for his actions and his speech.

You know what? If he can't finish a five issue mini-series in three years? He is lazy and showing contempt for the fans. That's pretty simple in my mind.

[Patient Boy]

I've never quite understood the fondness some people have for Smith's run on Daredevil though. It's good, but still isn't as good as some of the things Miller or Bendis have done.

[Nate C.]

I've never quite understood the fondness some people have for Smith's run on Daredevil though. It's good, but still isn't as good as some of the things Miller or Bendis have done.

Well, I agree in terms of length, but not quality.

I would put Smith's eight issues up against any eight of Bendis. I can't stand his work on DD, and it has nothing to do with adolescent impotent rage, and everything to do with Bendis' inability to tell a coherent story with a beginning, middle and end. My first post on CBR was a Bendis rant.

Of course, I agree with you on Miller. Add Nocenti and Lee to that as well. 8 issues isn't enough to have made a long term impact. That's part of my point- Smith coulda been a contender.

[tricksterpup]

I just don't understand the belly achen over a comic book.. I know we all collect and read them but in the greater scheme of things. Is it really that important? Hell, when Black Cat came out, I got it and when it didn't come out, I never really realized it or just forgot about it. I have to many other important things in my life, like posting on CBR.

[Sean Walsh]

I did kind of a Clerks comic [to be published by Graphitti Designs] that comes out soon that takes [Dante and Randal] from the Quickstop to Mooby's, showing how they got their job. It begins where the Quickstop burns down and shows what happened for the rest of that month."


So, uh, the movie doesn't do this?

[IamtheRock3]

By all rights it should be fairly incoherent - I meant to post on the "How late is to Late" thread.


OF FOR CRISE SAKES!!!

give it a rest. The Thread was already close.

[Slam_Bradley]

You know what? If he can't finish a five issue mini-series in three years? He is lazy and showing contempt for the fans. That's pretty simple in my mind.


Is he lazy or is he busy? I don't know. Haven't talked to him.

Contempt for the fans? Maybe. But in the end, who cares? If you view it as contempt, vote with your wallet.

Frankly, as a trade only buyer...it doesn't effect me in any way, shape or form.

[IamtheRock3]

Is he lazy or is he busy? I don't know. Haven't talked to him.

Contempt for the fans? Maybe. But in the end, who cares? If you view it as contempt, vote with your wallet.

Frankly, as a trade only buyer...it doesn't effect me in any way, shape or form.


And that partly what hurting the comic industry

[Slam_Bradley]

And that partly what hurting the comic industry


While this is probably not the appropriate thread to get in to it, I absolutely don't agree with that line of reasoning.

And if, in fact, that is what is hurting the industry, the industry needs to change.

[ednemo]

And that partly what hurting the comic industry

No it's not. I spend a lot of money on comics...all hardcovers and trades. Trades have basically saved the comics industry. Having a ton more people go into Barnes and Nobel and pick up a trade on a lark, or because they saw a related movie...makes the comics companies a ton of money. Plus, the trades continue to make the company money after the monthly issue has become a back issue and is no longer available. Go ask Joe Q if he thinks people buying trades are hurting the industry.

[Alex]

If you waited 3.5 years so he could finish a mini that was bad from the start, you got bigger problems then kevin smith's dick.

[howyadoin]

If you waited 3.5 years so he could finish a mini that was bad from the start, you got bigger problems then kevin smith's dick.That's not necessarily very big.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

If you waited 3.5 years so he could finish a mini that was bad from the start, you got bigger problems then kevin smith's dick.

Imagine when it goes 10 years ! That should be fun to watch as those angry fans come on " I waited 10 fuckin years for that story to be told ! " :p

Nothing against Kevin Smith , I think his DD was pretty much something that saved that character after years of bad moves. But it was a darkening back to Frank Miller's DD from what many old school fans told me in LCS. I have a few of the 1st issues.

[Boldido]

That's not necessarily very big.
I think Smith would be the first one to make that joke.

[Puma]

all I can think of is those readers who followed the Crossgen titles like Ruse/Sigil and all that went for two or three TPs and then went belly up - they have no hope for a conclusion for any of those storylines.

3.5 years doesn't seem that bad in comparison

[IamtheRock3]

If you waited 3.5 years so he could finish a mini that was bad from the start, you got bigger problems then kevin smith's dick.

Well not just for that mini

Me I jus tend to forget about it all together. Dont think it bitching to ask a writer stick to deadlines in a reasonble amount of time..Like I dont know.

To not be years late

Promblem is more and more do it
Giving

"what the hell it just a comic. It get done whenever" attitude

That bad attitude for any Entertainer to have

Yea there worst thing to worry about I guess
global warming
Lebanon

But still to much of a wait.

[Valmore]

all I can think of is those readers who followed the Crossgen titles like Ruse/Sigil and all that went for two or three TPs and then went belly up - they have no hope for a conclusion for any of those storylines.

Well, they did make the Abadazad books after the property rights got sold off. But I doubt we ever see much of anything else CG ever again.

[howyadoin]

I think Smith would be the first one to make that joke.What, he beat me too it?

Ooooh, I hate him! He's ruining comics!

[Nikita]

I've never read any of Smith's comics. I only found out about him through my ex who worshiped him because of his movies. He was a comic geek who made it to the Hollywood big time and that's why I kept hearing about him. I've watched a couple of his movies and they are ok, but if he never made another movie again, I could survive. I did like Chasing Amy a lot. That was a pretty good one. I've seen him in interviews and he seems like a pretty good guy with a sharp sense of humor, but I don't really follow his career that much. I'd rather follow actor Ryan Reynolds. Now that man, is funny and the hottest actor alive. *swoon*

[pennywisdom]

Take a look at the scenes where Jay is ranting about idiots on the internet.
You fucking rock for noticing that. I love poetic justice.

My thoughts on the whole "Kevin Smith hurt my feelings" dialogue (originally posted here (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=71322&page=4))

I think that mini-series are designed to tell a single story, so why break it up into illogical segments? It just creates this type of situation. If Marvel had simply waited until the entire story (front to back) was in their hands and released it as a TPB, everything would be cool. I will never stop singing the praises of the TPB format, but especially in scenarios like this.

I don't really understand why people take this stuff so personally. Everyone feels like Kevin Smith spit on them and now they have to spit back. From my perspective, this is just a case of poor planning, rather than a blatant act of malice towards the fans.

Smith overestimated his desire to write comics and wound up faltering and lagging behind. Did he screw up? Yeah, of course. But that doesn't change the fact that it was largely a mistake. If you see your grades are dropping, and you hate all your classes, and decide to switch majors, does it mean you're purposefully screwing your parents over because you hate them so much? No, it just means you jumped into something before looking.

Does Smith deserve a shot at redemption/forgiveness? I guess that depends on how badly this whole event hurt your fragile feelings. Personally, I wouldn't hold it against anybody if they picked it up. That doesn't, in my mind, signify a lack of dignity or a buckling of one's convictions. Rather, it just means you want to finish the story and you understand the reality of the situation.

If you buy the last issues of this mini, you're not saying "Kevin Smith, I support you being a lazy jerk" you're saying "Kevin Smith, I support you completing your obligations, although late". By writing the last issues, Smith is coming back and giving us what he's promised. It would have been a bigger "Screw You" if he hadn't even done that.

And anyone who says that this incident invalidates his films and his earlier work on Daredevil and Green Arrow is just wrong. That would be like me burning my Chicago Bulls championship memorabilia because I don't like Phil Jackson coming back to the Lakers.

[Forefinger]

I used to be a Kevin Smith fan, but the cavalier attitude he has toward his work and his fans really pisses me off. The interview he just did with CBR just made it worse. Here's the quote:

"Do you have any new comics work coming up?

Not really. I finally finished off that "Spider-Man/Black Cat" series and people got off my dick. [laughs] I did kind of a Clerks comic [to be published by Graphitti Designs] that comes out soon that takes [Dante and Randal] from the Quickstop to Mooby's, showing how they got their job. It begins where the Quickstop burns down and shows what happened for the rest of that month."

Let me see. Kevin Smith thinks that fans were "on his dick" just because they had to wait 3.5 years between issues of a book that was supposed to be monthly. How about that Kevin Smith fans? He doesn't want you "on his dick", so just get off his back about any sort of promises or contracts he makes to the fans!

I got one question fat ass! Where the hell is the rest of the Daredevil: The Target miniseries you should have finished 4 years ago? All right, I'm sorry, I'll "get off your dick."

Does this kind of rank arrogance from this jerk-off piss anyone else off?
Indeed it does. His inability to complete a story negativly affecting Bendis' run on Daredevil because the Target mini was supposed to tie in with the Hardcore storyline. Since it was never going to happen, Bendis had to go with what little buildup there was, and have Daredevil spout lines about doing things that we, the readers, never saw him do. There was supposed to be a massive buildup to that showdown where Daredevil had seriously resigned himself to the fact that he was going to kill Bullseye the next time he encountered him.

Other than that? I enjoyed his Daredevil run and his Green Arrow run, but seeing his track record with other comics, I'll wait on the TPB if he ever writes another comic.

[tricksterpup]

You know what? If he can't finish a five issue mini-series in three years? He is lazy and showing contempt for the fans. That's pretty simple in my mind.
yeesh, why should any one care? seriously, did it effect your life? would you have died if the comic book never got finished? was it some important nutrient for your pysche?
So, it took him 3 years to finish a Comic story, did it really matter in your life? For getting pissed off at some thing as trivial as this, one really needs to take a good look at their life and possibly grow up.

[Forefinger]

yeesh, why should any one care? seriously, did it effect your life? would you have died if the comic book never got finished? was it some important nutrient for your pysche?
So, it took him 3 years to finish a Comic story, did it really matter in your life? For getting pissed off at some thing as trivial as this, one really needs to take a good look at their life and possibly grow up.
No, t-pup, what they need is a nice girlfriend with a big rack.

[Iangould]

And that partly what hurting the comic industry

My store sells three times as much (in dollar terms) in trades as in single issue comics every month.

"Hurting the comic industry"? It sure isn't hurting my bit of it.

[Iangould]

I don't know enough about the DD miniseries to comment but this is my understanding about how Spiderman/Black Cat went down.

Smtih told the editors upfront that the story was potentially controversial and submitted detailed plots for all five issues which were approved all the way up to Joe Quesada.

He also made it clear to Marvel that he was contractually obligated to do Jersey Girl and that once he started on that project he would be unable to do further work for them until it wrapped.

He completed the first four issues of S/BC on time (or near enough) and delivered the final script before the deadline.

Marvel then sat on it until after the start date for Jersey girl before asking for major revisions - to a storylien they had already approved.

At that point Smith apprently told them that he'd make the requested changes - once Jersey Girl was completed.

If all that is true, Smith's actions seem pretty reasonable.

[Iangould]

Quite possibly, but man, was Joey Mad lazy. I mean, when Wizard interviewed him that one time, they found out he'd been playing Crash Bandicoot or some other game.

At least Smith was working on a movie or two. Mad was just playing video games.

No that was a joke Joe Mad made because he was DESIGNING video games but there was a NDA in place which meant he couldn't tell anyone.

[Iangould]

This probably doesn't mean anything, but I was able to do my Yellowjacket/Wasp scripts, soup to nuts, in two and change. That doesn't count plotting, though.

This may not count because it never got past the submission stage but I once scripted a full 23-page comic in a day.

[Forefinger]

I don't know enough about the DD miniseries to comment but this is my understanding about how Spiderman/Black Cat went down.

Smtih told the editors upfront that the story was potentially controversial and submitted detailed plots for all five issues which were approved all the way up to Joe Quesada.

He also made it clear to Marvel that he was contractually obligated to do Jersey Girl and that once he started on that project he would be unable to do further work for them until it wrapped.

He completed the first four issues of S/BC on time (or near enough) and delivered the final script before the deadline.

Marvel then sat on it until after the start date for Jersey girl before asking for major revisions - to a storylien they had already approved.

At that point Smith apprently told them that he'd make the requested changes - once Jersey Girl was completed.

If all that is true, Smith's actions seem pretty reasonable.
If that's true, it sounds like Smith did his part.

I would like to hear what his excuse for DD: Target is though.

[tricksterpup]

No, t-pup, what they need is a nice girlfriend with a big rack.
The love a large breasted woman is all the need any one really should have and it works for me.

[Forefinger]

The love a large breasted woman is all the need any one really should have and it works for me.
Amen, brother-pup.

[Zombienorthstar]

This may not count because it never got past the submission stage but I once scripted a full 23-page comic in a day.


Yeah but was it good??? :D I could do twenty three pages in a day...but im sure it would be non sensical drivelw ith ltos of characters going 'shut up!' 'no you shut up!' for pages and pages.

[tricksterpup]

Yeah but was it good??? :D I could do twenty three pages in a day...but im sure it would be non sensical drivelw ith ltos of characters going 'shut up!' 'no you shut up!' for pages and pages.
You also forgot..
Panel One: Darken alleyway, 2 heads looking at each other, lighted by the glare from the moonlight.
Character 1: "You Suck"
Character 2: "No, You Suck"
Panel Two: Darken alleyway, 2 heads looking at each other, lighted by the glare from the moonlight.
Character 1: "You Shutup"
Character 2: "No, You Shutup"
third panel splash: First character pointed to the second one. Fists are held up in anger and lit up by the glare of the moon light in an Alleyway.
Character 1: "Thats it, I'm telling Mom.
Character 2.: "Bastard"

[Zombienorthstar]

You also forgot..
Panel One: Darken alleyway, 2 heads looking at each other, lighted by the glare from the moonlight.
Character 1: "You Suck"
Character 2: "No, You Suck"
Panel Two: Darken alleyway, 2 heads looking at each other, lighted by the glare from the moonlight.
Character 1: "You Shutup"
Character 2: "No, You Shutup"
third panel splash: First character pointed to the second one. Fists are held up in anger and lit up by the glare of the moon light in an Alleyway.
Character 1: "Thats it, I'm telling Mom.
Character 2.: "Bastard"

True...still writable in a day.

[Forefinger]

You also forgot..
Panel One: Darken alleyway, 2 heads looking at each other, lighted by the glare from the moonlight.
Character 1: "You Suck"
Character 2: "No, You Suck"
Panel Two: Darken alleyway, 2 heads looking at each other, lighted by the glare from the moonlight.
Character 1: "You Shutup"
Character 2: "No, You Shutup"
third panel splash: First character pointed to the second one. Fists are held up in anger and lit up by the glare of the moon light in an Alleyway.
Character 1: "Thats it, I'm telling Mom.
Character 2.: "Bastard"
It's like a Bendis comic.

[tricksterpup]

It's like a Bendis comic.
yeah, I think I was channelling him.
If one of the Characters were Captain America, I would have him shed a tear.

[Forefinger]

yeah, I think I was channelling him.
If one of the Characters were Captain America, I would have him shed a tear.
If you were really channeling him, you would have thrown the "F" word in there a few times.

[tricksterpup]

If you were really channeling him, you would have thrown the "F" word in there a few times.
Captain American would never say that.. he would say Gee williekers.
But if this was a Keven smith script, I would have Luke Cage make a dick joke.

[Forefinger]

Captain American would never say that.. he would say Gee williekers.
But if this was a Keven smith script, I would have Luke Cage make a dick joke.
Captain America doesn't have a brother! I'm not talking about New Avengers Bendis. I'm talking Powers Bendis.

[Valmore]

No that was a joke Joe Mad made because he was DESIGNING video games but there was a NDA in place which meant he couldn't tell anyone.

Like I'm going to believe that.

[Sparda]

I used to be a Kevin Smith fan, but the cavalier attitude he has toward his work and his fans really pisses me off. The interview he just did with CBR just made it worse. Here's the quote:

"Do you have any new comics work coming up?

Not really. I finally finished off that "Spider-Man/Black Cat" series and people got off my dick. [laughs] I did kind of a Clerks comic [to be published by Graphitti Designs] that comes out soon that takes [Dante and Randal] from the Quickstop to Mooby's, showing how they got their job. It begins where the Quickstop burns down and shows what happened for the rest of that month."

Let me see. Kevin Smith thinks that fans were "on his dick" just because they had to wait 3.5 years between issues of a book that was supposed to be monthly. How about that Kevin Smith fans? He doesn't want you "on his dick", so just get off his back about any sort of promises or contracts he makes to the fans!

I got one question fat ass! Where the hell is the rest of the Daredevil: The Target miniseries you should have finished 4 years ago? All right, I'm sorry, I'll "get off your dick."

Does this kind of rank arrogance from this jerk-off piss anyone else off?
Im not a fan of kevin smith and I don't even read his comics. Only thing Im interested in his works is when he involves movies with Jay and silent bob. Other than that I could care less about the guy. Only good work he ever done was Jay and silent bob strikes back (I laughed my ass off with that movie) but rest don't care. Why don't you stick with writers who are devoted to comics like Mark miller?

[Bright-Raven]

Tricksterpup: Why should any one care? Seriously, did it effect your life? So, it took him 3 years to finish a Comic story, did it really matter in your life? For getting pissed off at some thing as trivial as this, one really needs to take a good look at their life and possibly grow up.


Tricksterpup:

Whenever any corporate owned property is tied up in a delayed project like this, it can and sometimes does adversely affect acceptance and scheduling for future projects featuring the character.

Here's something for you to ponder: How many creators have submitted BLACK CAT related materials to Marvel who were summarily rejected in part because of this mess over the past three years? How many creators were screwed out of potential employment for three years while Smith and Marvel couldn't get this project finished?

This debacle adversely affected a lot of people, directly and indirectly. It's not trivial because you're talking about people's livelihoods here, and just because it didn't affect you personally as a fan, doesn't mean you shouldn't care.

[Kid Omega]

Tricksterpup:

Tricksterpup:

Whenever any corporate owned property is tied up in a delayed project like this, it can and sometimes does adversely affect acceptance and scheduling for future projects featuring the character.

Here's something for you to ponder: How many creators have submitted BLACK CAT related materials to Marvel who were summarily rejected in part because of this mess over the past three years? How many creators were screwed out of potential employment for three years while Smith and Marvel couldn't get this project finished?

This debacle adversely affected a lot of people, directly and indirectly. It's not trivial because you're talking about people's livelihoods here, and just because it didn't affect you personally as a fan, doesn't mean you shouldn't care.

If a creator's livelihood is based on a rejected BLACK CAT script, you can hardly blame that on Kevin Smith.

The only people with a legit beef in this case:

1. Retailers who ordered the material that never shipped. In this case, the orders will be cancelled.

2. The other creators on the book, who are waiting on a ascript that never arrived. In this case, the Dodsons found plenty of interim work at DC. I dunno about the other folks, but I bet they made out fine.

All told, Kevin Smith is not that talented a writer, and his comics are especially poor.

Anyone waiting on them has a good opportunity to explore more gifted creators.

They may find it enriching.

[tonearcher]

I just get mad when people who are in positions that are mainly because of fans, make us wait. We pay for this. You'd be upset if it was summertime and your a/c that you're paying for is taking too long to be installed or delivered. And if you went to the movies and the projection shut off after the first hour, you'd kind of want to know what happens. I'm not for or against KEVIN SMITH, but all writers/directors etc. need to put their all into things that they're working on. For fans to spend their money to keep another person rich, they don't want to feel like they're getting a half-assed product. (see X3: Last Stance.)

[tricksterpup]

Captain America doesn't have a brother! I'm not talking about New Avengers Bendis. I'm talking Powers Bendis.
Maybe I should write the story of Winslow, aka Super Herpes?

[tricksterpup]

Tricksterpup:

Tricksterpup:

Whenever any corporate owned property is tied up in a delayed project like this, it can and sometimes does adversely affect acceptance and scheduling for future projects featuring the character.

Here's something for you to ponder: How many creators have submitted BLACK CAT related materials to Marvel who were summarily rejected in part because of this mess over the past three years? How many creators were screwed out of potential employment for three years while Smith and Marvel couldn't get this project finished?

This debacle adversely affected a lot of people, directly and indirectly. It's not trivial because you're talking about people's livelihoods here, and just because it didn't affect you personally as a fan, doesn't mean you shouldn't care.
This is going to make me sound like a DICK, but I still do not care. I have more important things in my life than to worry about a comic book or people I do not know personally. Now if you were one of those people who were trying to find work writing a Black Cat story and you were a good friend of mine. Then yes I may care but other than that, no emotion here. I would simply tell those people to try a different story or a different angle. A creative person working for said companies should be talented enough to try something else and not rely on One Character.

[Lubichev]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5569913

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Of course Marvel had plans for Blackcat in Smith's Amazing Spiderman run that was supposed to happen. Blackcat did show up in Dodson's and Miller's MK Spiderman run while Smith's mini-series was on the waiting list.

So if someone pitched for Blackcat , odds are Marvel considered it. But I doubt you saw many crying outside Marvel " Give me Blackcat or I'll be destitute in the comics world forever! "

[Ray R.]

This is going to make me sound like a DICK, but I still do not care. I have more important things in my life than to worry about a comic book or people I do not know personally. Now if you were one of those people who were trying to find work writing a Black Cat story and you were a good friend of mine. Then yes I may care but other than that, no emotion here. I would simply tell those people to try a different story or a different angle. A creative person working for said companies should be talented enough to try something else and not rely on One Character.

No, you don't sound like a dick at all. That's a pretty reasonable and fair-minded response.

KO pretty much nailed it. If you're a creator and you're dependent on Black Cat scripts to make your career, you're painting or have painted yourself into a corner. And that's not the comic book reader's problem, that's the problem for a career counselor to help out with.

[Iangould]

Yeah but was it good??? :D I could do twenty three pages in a day...but im sure it would be non sensical drivelw ith ltos of characters going 'shut up!' 'no you shut up!' for pages and pages.

Well I thought it was pretty good.

I was working off a detailed synopsis so it was mostly a matter of comign up with the dialog.

[Magneto_X]

Speaking of The Target is Marvel going to hire someone else to write the rest of it?

Since Smith isn't interested or going to finish it any time soon.

[Bright-Raven]

Kid Omega:

A creator's livelihood is based on every project they pitch. Every proposal that gets rejected hinders their progress. Given the normal turnaround time between submissions and acceptances (usually months), then the time to develop the project and solicit it and get it onto the market, you're talking an average of nine months to two years between the original conceptualization of a storyline and being paid for the finalized product.

So any time a project gets rejected or pushed back on the schedule because someone else can't do their job on time, that someone is taking opportunities away from others to keep money coming in. And oft times when a project is pushed back repeatedly, things change in editorial so that your project isn't suitable anymore, and you wind up with maybe a kill fee if you're lucky, and usually nothing.

Does that mean the creator(s) don't pitch something else in the meantime? Of course not. But you never know which project is the one that will get accepted. To have any project rejected in part for scheduling conflicts is not a good thing.

********

ECW: If someone pitched for Black Cat, odds are Marvel considered it.

I've been asked not to name the creators in question, but there are three established writers whom I regularly work with reviewing their submissions packages before they submit to companies. Each one sent a BLACK CAT proposal in the last three years, and each one had their proposals returned unread with a form letter stating that their proposals could not be considered at that time because the character was "in use". The only series where that character was particularly in use at the time was Smith's.

You mentioned the Mark Millar / Terry Dodson project. I'm not privvy to how that project developed, but I would not be at all surprised if the editor approached Millar, as Dodson was the artist on EVIL THAT MEN DO and Marvel would have wanted to give him something to do while Smith was doing whatever. It is unlikely that any editor would turn to a writer not already under contract with Marvel in such an instance.

**********

Is this situation entirely Smith's fault? No. It's Marvel's fault also, arguably to a far greater extent. However, I would expect Smith to acknowledge the fact that he has no fiscal need to work in comics and as such to check his ego and stay where he is far more accepted and he seemingly has far more interest in being professional.

Because let's face the facts:

The book was originally cleared and solicited in 2002. The first issue was released in August of 2002. Since that time:

He made appearances with his buddy who plays Jay telling the world which guys he'd go gay for on VH1's I LOVE THE 90s. I'm sure VH1paid him far more money than Marvel did for his time, but nevertheless... prior obligations and all that.

Then he was doing his little cameo role in DAREDEVIL. How many days did he screw around on set there, being the fat little fanboy that he is and his buddy Affleck being the lead role actor, hm?

Oh wait. Let's not forget his voice acting debut as the Green Loontern on DUCK DODGERS! How the world would have suffered had THAT little gem of a performance been passed on.

Or his MAD TV appearance. Or his VERONICA MARS appearance. Or his countless appearances on late night talk shows.

Apparently all of these things are more important to him than meeting his previously contracted obligations.

If Marvel had any balls or guts whatsoever, they would have sued him for breach of contract and ended his career. He knowingly and willfully dismissed the consequences of his actions in regards to his employer, the retailers, other creators, and the fans. End of story.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

ECW:

I've been asked not to name the creators in question, but there are three established writers whom I regularly work with reviewing their submissions packages before they submit to companies. Each one sent a BLACK CAT proposal in the last three years, and each one had their proposals returned unread with a form letter stating that their proposals could not be considered at that time because the character was "in use". The only series where that character was particularly in use at the time was Smith's.

Well again MK Spiderman was released around 2003-2004 as well and she was in use there. Also , did your " friends " stop submitting because they couldn't use Blackcat ? Keep in mind , eithor way with or without Kevin Smith , Blackcat was locked up . Smith was gonna put her in ASM had he finished the series and Miller got her. So she was an untouchable character eithor way.

So besides these 3 established guys not getting Blackcat in a story , did they stop submitting for this reason ?

You mentioned the Mark Millar / Terry Dodson project. I'm not privvy to how that project developed, but I would not be at all surprised if the editor approached Millar, as Dodson was the artist on EVIL THAT MEN DO and Marvel would have wanted to give him something to do while Smith was doing whatever. It is unlikely that any editor would turn to a writer not already under contract with Marvel in such an instance.

Sorry just noticed this line....

Miller was coming on I believe after Smith's failure to take ASM. His work was gonna be darker so he got a created title and I can see Marvel handing him whoever he wanted with Terry Dodson.
**********

Is this situation entirely Smith's fault? No. It's Marvel's fault also, arguably to a far greater extent. However, I would expect Smith to acknowledge the fact that he has no fiscal need to work in comics and as such to check his ego and stay where he is far more accepted and he seemingly has far more interest in being professional.

Kevin Smith loves comics. He's appeared in movies , and kinds of work showing his love for the industry. Its just that he and Marvel dropped the ball by not putting the books out on schedule. Work on " Scary Movie , Fletch Lives " ect ect hurt Smith in the long run . Its not easy to write , direct , produce and edit a movie. He took on too much at one time .

Because let's face the facts:

The book was originally cleared and solicited in 2002. The first issue was released in August of 2002. Since that time:

He made appearances with his buddy who plays Jay telling the world which guys he'd go gay for on VH1's I LOVE THE 90s. I'm sure VH1paid him far more money than Marvel did for his time, but nevertheless... prior obligations and all that.

Its $$$$ I suppose. Plus it keeps his name out there and exposed. Smith wants to make money for his movies. Clerks II does have a 5 million dollar budget. ;)

Then he was doing his little cameo role in DAREDEVIL. How many days did he screw around on set there, being the fat little fanboy that he is and his buddy Affleck being the lead role actor, hm?

To take up for Smith here....who wouldn't wanna be in a comic book film if they loved the character and comics ? Come on be honest...if your a fan and your big acting superstar friend , Ben Affleck said " Hey , Brightraven , wanna shoot a cameo in Daredevil ? It'll take a day or 2 for the scene and you can even hold the billy club ! "

I sense some anger for Smith here. Is there some unknown fury towards Smith we should know about , BR ?

Oh wait. Let's not forget his voice acting debut as the Green Loontern on DUCK DODGERS! How the world would have suffered had THAT little gem of a performance been passed on.

Or his MAD TV appearance. Or his VERONICA MARS appearance. Or his countless appearances on late night talk shows.

Apparently all of these things are more important to him than meeting his previously contracted obligations.

Hmmm its Hollywood. Its Smith's key industry. Considering he has said he doesn't make the " jack " like he does in films what do you want ? GO BROKE DAMN YOU!! GO BROKE SO I CAN GET SPIDERMAN/BLACKCAT!! Fuck Hollywood fat boy ! ;)

If Marvel had any balls or guts whatsoever, they would have sued him for breach of contract and ended his career. He knowingly and willfully dismissed the consequences of his actions in regards to his employer, the retailers, other creators, and the fans. End of story.

Marvel knew exactly the industry Kevin Smith , Alan Hienberg , Joss Whedon and others are in from Hollywood. They know delays and things will happen as we have seen and they will move schedules and shift books to really late to make things work.

Kevin Smith has said numerous times...he doesn't make a living from comics even though he enjoys it. His main money making industry is TV/Films. Marvel knew and understands the game now as we've seen. Odds are if Kevin Smith wanted he could pitch a project to Marvel or DC and get it approved. And odds are they'd make him get 5 to 6 months of scripts ect ect ready now.

[Ryan Day]

I've been asked not to name the creators in question, but there are three established writers whom I regularly work with reviewing their submissions packages before they submit to companies. Each one sent a BLACK CAT proposal in the last three years, and each one had their proposals returned unread with a form letter stating that their proposals could not be considered at that time because the character was "in use". The only series where that character was particularly in use at the time was Smith's.

But there are numerous reasons why a pitch could be rejected that might never be known publicly. Maybe another creator was planning on doing a Black Cat series, but had to put it on the back burner. Maybe (and this admittedly turned out not to be the case) Smith's series was going to make major changes to the character, and these pitches were now irrelevant. Maybe there was a list of three or four creators who had plans for the Black Cat once Smith's series was done. Maybe "in use" was just a polite euphemism for "not interested." (You say "established," but did they have a history of working with Marvel?)

I'm sure there are plenty of creators who've worked hard on Spider-Man scripts and pitches, maybe on a nice little story about Peter balancing his secret identity with his superhero life. But then, BAM, Civil War comes along and those pitches are worthless.

It sucks, yeah, but that's just the way it goes.

[Nate C.]

Is he lazy or is he busy? I don't know. Haven't talked to him.

Contempt for the fans? Maybe. But in the end, who cares? If you view it as contempt, vote with your wallet.

Frankly, as a trade only buyer...it doesn't effect me in any way, shape or form.

Aren't you in the intent buisness?

[Nate C.]

yeesh, why should any one care? seriously, did it effect your life? would you have died if the comic book never got finished? was it some important nutrient for your pysche?
So, it took him 3 years to finish a Comic story, did it really matter in your life? For getting pissed off at some thing as trivial as this, one really needs to take a good look at their life and possibly grow up.

yeah, I should really get back to posting more pictures on the internet.

[howyadoin]

Aren't you in the intent buisness?Hah. Nice one, Nate.

[Nate C.]

Hah. Nice one, Nate.

Thanks, Bret.

He's still

SLAM BRADLEY!!!! though. I should probably change my name or something.

[howyadoin]

Thanks, Bret.

He's still

SLAM BRADLEY!!!! though. I should probably change my name or something.Oh, no question. His SLAM BRADLEY!!!!ness is unparallelled.

[Nate C.]

You know why it took 3 years for Smith to finish the Black Cat mini?

Cause SLAM BRADLEY said it should, is why.

[howyadoin]

You know why it took 3 years for Smith to finish the Black Cat mini?

Cause SLAM BRADLEY said it should, is why.I keep picturing Springsteen doing a song intro about SLAM BRADLEY. "Do I have to speak his name?!!!"

[Nate C.]

hey little girl is your daddy home,
did he leave you here, all alone,
hmhmmm. got a bad desire,
whoahoahoa, SLAM BRADLEY!!! is on fire.

[Kid Omega]

Kid Omega:

A creator's livelihood is based on every project they pitch. Every proposal that gets rejected hinders their progress. Given the normal turnaround time between submissions and acceptances (usually months), then the time to develop the project and solicit it and get it onto the market, you're talking an average of nine months to two years between the original conceptualization of a storyline and being paid for the finalized product.

So any time a project gets rejected or pushed back on the schedule because someone else can't do their job on time, that someone is taking opportunities away from others to keep money coming in. And oft times when a project is pushed back repeatedly, things change in editorial so that your project isn't suitable anymore, and you wind up with maybe a kill fee if you're lucky, and usually nothing.

That doesn't change my point.

If these guys are counting on one or two submissions at Marvel for their livelihood, I have no pity for them.

It is no one's responsibility but their own to make sure they have work.

I can name multiple freelance writers in comics (and television and magazines and film etc) who are basically hacks, but they continue working year after year. Being a freelancer means constant hustling.

It is not Marvel's fault, and it is not Smith's fault. If they are hinging their career on a floating submission, it is their problem, period.

[Forefinger]

Maybe I should write the story of Winslow, aka Super Herpes?
Please do.

[Michael P]

That doesn't change my point.

If these guys are counting on one or two submissions at Marvel for their livelihood, I have no pity for them.

It is no one's responsibility but their own to make sure they have work.

I can name multiple freelance writers in comics (and television and magazines and film etc) who are basically hacks, but they continue working year after year. Being a freelancer means constant hustling.

It is not Marvel's fault, and it is not Smith's fault. If they are hinging their career on a floating submission, it is their problem, period.
Yeah, I gotta say I'm not buying it either, BR. Due to current events at Marvel, my Black Knight and Quasar pitches have zero chance of even being considered.* So I've shelved them for the time being, and my comic writing energy is going into other characters and concepts (most of which, as it turns out, are DC, unaligned, or original). It hasn't hurt me in any appreciable manner. And that's just comics; I've got other projects to work on as well. New Excalibur didn't affect my novel, or the short story being published in October, one bit, or any of the numerous ideas in my round file at all.

*Which leads me to ask, why were these creators pitching Black Cat in the first place? If they were paying the market any attention at all, they knew the character was spoken for. Hell, they'd get the exact same response now, because Palmiotti and Grey are using her in Heroes for Hire. When Mike Carey was asked to pitch X-Men, he didn't say "Fuck Whedon, I want Cyclops and Beast," he said, "Who's available?"

[Ray R.]

And The Onion puts it all into perspective:

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/infographic_kevinsmith.article.jpg