" Realistic " Fantasy Novels

[Nitz the Bloody]

First of all, let me state that I'm probably generalizing a bit, but I'm only doing this to give examples of what I don't enjoy, so I can get to what I do.

In theory, I love fantasy. I love the idea of magic, that force which defys all known explanation and makes anything possible, and its many uses. On the other hand, I have a really hard time getting into typical fantasy novels because they're so divorced from modern reality. Most of what I've read seems to follow the Tolkien model, set in a world that's either completely fictionalized or a magically-enhanced version of Medieval times that draws often on fantasy stereotypes ( such as the requisite dwarves, elves, dragons, orcs, and wizards ). Sometimes these magical worlds are effective metaphors for issues in the real one, but more often than not they seem to get caught up in their own trappings, and read like they're printed in a foreign language. I had a hard time getting into even the Lord of the Rings, and I have a harder time following its spiritual successors because their world feels too far away and requires too much explanation to get absorbed into.

However, I like fantasy stories set in something resembling the real world. I can suspend disbelief for the magic parts, because the rest of the surroundings and characters check out fine with reality. I love Neil Gaiman's novels like Good Omens, Neverwhere, and American Gods. I love the part of the Marvel Universe that's grounded in New York ( cosmic stories like with Thor and the Silver Surfer, not so much ). Buffy the Vampire Slayer was one of my favorite shows of all time, because it was extremely relatable despite being set on the Hellmouth, and obviously I read and like the Harry Potter books. And there are probably other examples that aren't coming to mind, but are more " realistic " than Tolkienesque fantasy.

But in terms of novels, meeting my criteria; any reccomendations?

[Donald M.]

If you haven't read them yet, I'd reccomend checking out Clive Barker's Weaveworld, The Great and Secret Show, it's lesser but still entertaining sequel Everville and The Thief of Always, aimed at a yonger audience but still very, very good.

[Michael P]

What you're talking about is called "magical realism" in the biz. There's a good deal of it out there; it's one of Gaiman's specialties, as American Gods, Anansi Boys, and bits of Sandman show.

My tastes tend more towards the epic side of the scale, but I know of a few. Jonathon Strange & Mr. Norrell is one of the biggest successes in recent history. Jim Butcher's Dresden Files series is a nice mix of magical realism and crime noir. And there's a book that's got a very "Buffy" feel to it, about a suburban soccer mom who moonlights as a demon hunter, but I forget the title. I'm sure one of our fellow nerds will recall it, though.

[Crash-Man]

I haven't read it yet, but I've heard a lot of great things about George RR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_game_of_thrones) series.

From what I've read, it's set in a fantasy world that closely resembles medieval Europe, and is focused more on politics, warfare, and characterisation than flights of fantasy.

I'll be getting the first book soon, so I'll tell you how it turns out.


Also, you should check out Anansi Boys if you like Gaiman's work.

[Shem the Penman]

Check out ... well, anything by Charles de Lint.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Checkout this list for recommendations:http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4824/magreal.htm#list

[Expletive Deleted]

For "urban fantasy" and "contemporary fantasy" (which seem to be the subgenres you're describing), Charles de Lint and Jim Butcher are a good recommendation.

Christopher Moore's work also fits the bill, I think. PRACTICAL DEMONKEEPING is a good place to start with his stuff.

Laurell K. Hamilton's vampire and faerie fiction has gone off the rails recently, but her first few books are pretty good. GUILTY PLEASURES is the start of the "Anita Blake" series.

Believe it or not, Tolkein-swiper extraordinaire Terry Brooks did a fairly decent three book urban fantasy series (RUNNING WITH THE DEMON, KNIGHT OF THE WORD, ANGEL FIRE EAST). It's not exactly the pinnacle of the genre, but it's worth a read if you can find it cheap.

I'll also suggest Emma Bull's WAR FOR THE OAKS, Simon Green's "Nightside" series (start with SOMETHING FROM THE NIGHTSIDE), and Tad Williams "Otherland" series (start with CITY OF GOLDEN SHADOW - it starts off reeeeeeeeally slow, but it's good).

[Karl J. Barnes]

For "urban fantasy" and "contemporary fantasy" (which seem to be the subgenres you're describing), Charles de Lint and Jim Butcher are a good recommendation.

Christopher Moore's work also fits the bill, I think. PRACTICAL DEMONKEEPING is a good place to start with his stuff.

Laurell K. Hamilton's vampire and faerie fiction has gone off the rails recently, but her first few books are pretty good. GUILTY PLEASURES is the start of the "Anita Blake" series.

Believe it or not, Tolkein-swiper extraordinaire Terry Brooks did a fairly decent three book urban fantasy series (RUNNING WITH THE DEMON, KNIGHT OF THE WORD, ANGEL FIRE EAST). It's not exactly the pinnacle of the genre, but it's worth a read if you can find it cheap.

I'll also suggest Emma Bull's WAR FOR THE OAKS, Simon Green's "Nightside" series (start with SOMETHING FROM THE NIGHTSIDE), and Tad Williams "Otherland" series (start with CITY OF GOLDEN SHADOW - it starts off reeeeeeeeally slow, but it's good).

Just to add: Brooks' Word&Void trilogy was not half bad and I have read(forget where) that it all connects to his Shannara series, kind of like Stephen King's novels supposedly connect to each other.

Definitely agree that you can't go wrong by reading Christopher Moore's novels. Funny and insightful.

[Subotai]

If I could make a recommendation that's more science-fiction than fantasy, it's Mitchell Smith's Snowfall series - Snowfall, Kingdom River, and Moonrise.

The story is takes place after a minor shift in a neighbouring planet's orbit has resulted in disasterous climat change - basically, it started snowing in the northern hemisphere, and never stopped.

Several hundred years in the future, the survivors are scattered across North America, divided among tribes. Some have turned to the Native Americans to learn how to survive; others survive by hunting and trapping. A two-mile high ice cliff, the southern edge of the glaciers, runs from California to Rhode Island.

It is against this backdrop that the story of the Trappers is told - driven out of their homeland but warring native tribes, they soon find that the scientists at Boston-Town have been experimenting under the ice over the centuries and have learned secrets such as human-animal breeding and levitation.

The strengths of the novels are Smith's meticulous attention to detail - everything from weapons to climate to native culture - and his depiction of characters. Smith generally writes crime novels, but his books are generally focused on how people respond to extreme, often extraordinary pressures. He writes extremely strong female characters; in fact, his female characters tend to be the strongest in his novels. I would compare him to George RR Martin in that he also has no illusions about the fragility of life.

Highly, highly recommended.

[Matt Linton]

I can't imagine anyone who loves Gaimen not loving Charles DeLint. Look for the Newford books.

The Newford Series

* The Dreaming Place (1990)
* From A Whisper To A Scream (originally credited to "Samuel M. Key")(1992)
* Dreams Underfoot (1993)
* I'll Be Watching You (originally credited to "Samuel M. Key")(1994)
* Memory And Dream (1994)
* The Ivory And The Horn (1995)
* Trader (1997)
* Someplace To Be Flying (1998)
* Moonlight And Vines (1999)
* Forests Of The Heart (2000)
* The Onion Girl (2001)
* Seven Wild Sisters (2002)
* Tapping the Dream Tree (2002)
* Spirits in the Wires (2003)
* Medicine Road (2003)
* The Blue Girl (2004)
* Widdershins (2006)

Excellent urban fantasy.

[Brannon]

The first mistake most LOTR's readers seem to make is to go on to try other Tolkien "inspired" fantasy novels. Thankfully, I've pretty much avoided this. As far as "medeival" type fantasy, Tolkien and Robert E. Howard are the only ones that fully statisfy me. Stephen King was right, Tolkien gave the 20th Century all the "Elves and Wizards" it will ever need. Tolkien's Elves and Wizard were amazing because there was someting underneath the classic mythical trappings. Not so with the superficial fantasy junk of today.

[Adem]

And there's a book that's got a very "Buffy" feel to it, about a suburban soccer mom who moonlights as a demon hunter, but I forget the title.

This sounds interesting does anyone know the title?

[Karl J. Barnes]

This sounds interesting does anyone know the title?

Sounds like something by Kelly Armstrong,maybe?

[saintjon]

I haven't read any Charles de Lint books but they sound like pretty much EXACTLY what you are looking for.

If what you really want is just a basic GROUNDING in reality from which anything goes, then I got all kinds of recommends for you.

I have a hard time believing that anyone with a pulse wouldn't find Heroes Die by Matt Stover to be an incredible book. The protag is like the original badass of the future's favourite entertainment, "actors" being sent to what is basically an extremely fantasy world to live violent interesting lives for the enjoyment of the paying audience back on earth, all at the expense of the other world's inhabitants. uh... gotta lend out my cord, I'll say more later maybe.

[Slam_Bradley]

I saw Neal Gaiman mentioned, but not Neverwhere. Definitely right up this alley.

[Jay]

Try -

The Portrait of Ms. Charbuqe by Jeffrey Ford
A Girl in the Glass by Jeffrey Ford
The Light Ages by Ian R. Macleod
House of Storms by Ian R. Macleod
The Jerusalem Quartet by Edward Whittemore
Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell by Susanna Clarke
The Onion Girl by Charles De Lint
The Chess Garden by Brooks Hansen
The Troika by Stepan Chapman
A Princess of Roumania by Paul Park
The Land of Laughs by Jonathan Carroll
Voice of Our Shadow by Jonathan Carroll
Outside the Dog Museum by Jonathan Carroll
After Silence by Jonathan Carroll
From the Teeth of Angels by Jonathan Carroll
Kissing the Beehive by Jonathan Carroll
The Marriage of Sticks by Jonathan Carroll
The Wooden Sea by Jonathan Carroll
White Apples by Jonathan Carroll
Glass Soup by Jonathan Carroll
The Drawing of the Dark by Tim Powers
The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers
On Stranger Tides by Tim Powers
The Stress of Her Regard by Tim Powers
Declare by Tim Powers
Dreamside by Graham Joyce
Dark Sister by Graham Joyce
House of Lost Dreams by Graham Joyce
Requiem by Graham Joyce
The Tooth Fairy by Graham Joyce
The Stormwatcher by Graham Joyce
Leningrad Nights by Graham Joyce
Indigo by Graham Joyce
Smoking Poppy by Graham Joyce
The Facts of Life by Graham Joyce
Limits of Enchantment by Graham Joyce
Vellum by Hal Duncan
Aeygpt Quartet by John Crowley
Viator by Lucius Shepard
The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay by Michael Chabon
Amnesia Moon by Jonathan Lethem
Girl in Landscape by Jonathan Lethem
New York Trilogy by Paul Auster

That's just a couple - tons more if needed.

Although taking place in secondary worlds I highly recommend the work of Jeff Vandermeer and China Mieville who still hold to real world elements.

[sun tzu]

It's incomplete, I've barely started it, and it updates at a snail's pace, but... The Power League (http://www.fictionpress.com/read.php?storyid=1683327).

[CaptMagellan]

What you're talking about is called "magical realism" in the biz. There's a good deal of it out there; it's one of Gaiman's specialties, as American Gods, Anansi Boys, and bits of Sandman show.

Not to pick nits, but when the term "Magical Realism" is used to reference literature it is usually used to reference a different genre than the one this thread is discussing.

Here's a quote from Wiki (see specifically the last paragraph)
The term was first revived and applied to the realm of fiction as a combination of the fantastic and the realistic in the 1960s by a Venezuelan essayist and critic Arturo Uslar-Pietri, who applied it to a very specific South American genre, influenced by the blend of realism and fantasy in Mário de Andrade's influential 1928 novel Macunaíma. However, the term itself came in vogue only after Nobel prize winner Miguel Ángel Asturias used the expression to define the style of his novels. The term gained popularity with the rise of such authors as Mikhail Bulgakov, Ernst Jünger and Salman Rushdie and many Latin American writers, most notably Jorge Luis Borges, Isabel Allende, Juan Rulfo, Dias Gomes and Gabriel García Márquez, who confessed, "My most important problem was destroying the lines of demarcation that separates what seems real from what seems fantastic." Mexican author Laura Esquivel also wrote in this vein when she penned Like Water for Chocolate. The book, which sold three million copies worldwide, was later made into a film. Upon its release in the United States, it became the highest grossing foreign film in U.S. history. (It has since been surpassed by the current record-holder Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.) The most widely read of the South American magical realism narratives is García Márquez's novel One Hundred Years of Solitude. The style was actually originated by Nokolai Gogol in his short story 'The Nose'

Today, magical realism is perhaps too broadly used, to characterize all realistic fictions with an eerie, otherworldly component, such as the tales of Edgar Allan Poe, or realistic fictions where magic is simply an overt theme in the narrative, such as The Stepford Wives or the Harry Potter books. The latter pair of examples are probably best categorized as works of fantasy, since they utilize magic and other supernatural concepts and ideas as primary elements of plot, theme, or setting.

And here's a great article
http://www.writing-world.com/sf/realism.shtml

Here's a list of visual artists that were part of the visual "magical realism" movement
http://www.artcyclopedia.com/history/magic-realism.html

and here is one lit teacher's (Felix Grant) sample list of magical realism books

Carey, Peter (Australia) Illywhacker
Carter, Angela Nights at the Circus
Kundera, Milan (Czech) Immortality
García Márquez, Gabriel (Colombia) One Hundred Years of Solitude
Rushdie, Salman (UK/India) Midnight's Children and Shame
Swift, Graham (UK) Waterland

A lot of fiction which predates the term Magical Realism is nevertheless recognised as falling within its definition. The most obvious example is Kafka, and in particular:

Kafka, Franz (Czech) Metamorphosis

I teach my own lit courses on the basis that the following are indicative examples of the range covered by the Magical Realism label, and my immediate colleagues are in general agreement, but they are not sanctified by universal acceptance! I've limited myself to one book per author only for brevity and clarity.

Allende, Isabel (Chile) Of Love and Shadows
Aitmatov, Chingiz (USSR) The Day Lasts More Than A Hundred Years
Doctorov, E L (US) Loon Lake
Eco, Umberto (Italy) Foucault's Pendulum
Fowles, John (UK) A Maggot
Gearhardt, Sally M (US) The Wanderground
Golding, William (UK) The Paper Men
Greenland, Colin (UK) Other Voices
Le Guin, Ursula K (US) Threshold
Hesse, Herman (Germany) Magister Ludi
Hoban, Russell (US/UK) The Medusa Frequency
Hoeg, Peter (Denmark) The History of Danish Dreams
Hospital, Janette T (Australia) The Last Magician
Lessing, Doris (UK) The Memoirs of a Survivor
McEwan, Ian (UK) The Child in Time
Read, Herbert (UK) The Green Child
Ransmayer, Christoph (Austria) The Last World
Saxton, Josephine (UK/US) Queen of the States


Some of those I wouldn't agree with but it gives a good example of what the specific term points at. It's a really cool catagory of fiction but it's a lot different from what most people consider fantasy, sci-fi, horror, supernatural, or 'weird' fiction.

[jwmojo]

I just started reading Michael Chabon's Summerland, and it fits pretty well with what has been described here. I had to go to the children's section of the book store to find it, but I'm not sure I'd really call it a children's book... I guess it's sort of in the vein of the Harry Potter books.

Regardless, it's a pretty good read so far.

[Iangould]

For very dfferent takes on medieval fantasy I recommend George RR Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" and R.A. McAvoy's "Mirror of the World". (Technically you could argue that "Mirror" is sf but if so it's sf that occurs entirely in a medieval world where the population believes in demons and monsters but which is slowly edging into its version of the Renaissance.)

[Ghost]

However, I like fantasy stories set in something resembling the real world. I can suspend disbelief for the magic parts, because the rest of the surroundings and characters check out fine with reality.

Discworld. You want realistic fantasy, read Discworld. Seriously.

I specifically recommend Going Postal, The Truth, Thief of Time, The Amazing Maurice & His Educated Rodents, Maskerade, and just about every single book centered on Sam Vimes and the Watch.

Also, while on the subject of Terry Pratchett; all of the Johnny books. (They even take place in our world.)

[Michael P]

This sounds interesting does anyone know the title?
I saw it in the store the other day. Carpe Demon.

Oh, and I've read through a few of the Dresden Files books. Those things are damn good.

[Adem]

Thanks for the info, Michael.:)

[Magneto_X]

Read the Dresden Files novels, Niz.

[Sir Tim Drake]

That Wikipedia entry doesn't seem entirely accurate to me. I've done some research into magical realism and I've never heard of Dias Gomes.

If you're interested in the more highbrow version of magical realism, the two crucial texts are Garcia Marquez's One Hundred Years of Solitude and Salman Rushdie's Midnight's Children. I would also recommend:

Ben Okri, The Famished Road
Alejo Carpentier, The Kingdom of This World
John Crowley, Little, Big
Mikhail Bulgakov, The Master and Margarita
Toni Morrison, Song of Solomon
Ana Castillo, So Far from God
Julio Cortazar, "Axolotl", "The Southern Thruway", "The Night Face Up" and other stories
Jose Saramago, Baltasar and Blimunda

[CaptMagellan]

That Wikipedia entry doesn't seem entirely accurate to me. I've done some research into magical realism and I've never heard of Dias Gomes.

Dias Gomes was a Brazillian playwright, screenwriter, and novelist who doesn't have much stuff translated into English (at least anything easily available). His plays have Magical Realism elements in them similar to the elements in Alejandro Jodorowski's movies.

His play "O Pagador de Promessas" is very cool and was turned into a 'Palme d'Or' winning movie named "Keeper of Promises" in the 1960s.

He was mostly known for revolutionizing the Brazilian "novela" (taking low brow 'soap operas' on Brazillian TV and raising to a higher level).

He was also a lifelong militant communist.

I had a lit teacher who loved his stuff... otherwise I wouldn't know of him either.

[metr0man]

my highest recommendation goes to Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell. At times it feels downright historical (and i mean that in a good way rather than a stuffy boring history kind of way)

[CaptMagellan]

my highest recommendation goes to Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell. At times it feels downright historical (and i mean that in a good way rather than a stuffy boring history kind of way)

My wife's reading that right now. I'm looking forward to reading it when she's done.

[CaptMagellan]

Mikhail Bulgakov, The Master and Margarita


That's a cool book. I thought Satan's cat was a fun character.

Here's an online version of the 1997 translation...
http://lib.ru/BULGAKOW/master97_engl.txt

[Captain Smith]

Rachel Caine's Weather Warden series - djinns and control of the weather firmly in our universe.

Kelly Armstrong - some are good, some are a touch slow. She has little knowledge of realistic fighting which sometimes impedes her werewolves who fight a lot.

Hamilton - up to Obsidian Butterfly, she was readable. Now she is totally off the deep end. Her books have NO plot movement of significance but full of hundreds of pages of her heroines getting boned or talking about it.

Brian Daley did a couple about an infantry squad and M113 that got dropped in your dragonish, wizard world - not bad.

Tanya Huff - some OK vampires in our world.

Just as there are lots of LOTR clones of variable quality, Hamilton has generated a wave of female vampires and werewolves of variable quality.

[Slam_Bradley]

I can't believe I let this thread get this far without mentioning Ray Bradbury.

Something Wicked This Way Comes and From The Dust Returned certainly qualify as fantasy. The latter is clearly the more realistic of the two (setting wise), but both are excellent. The Halloween Tree, though aimed at a younger audience is also very good.

[Magneto_X]

Dresden Files and Anita Blake are series you should look into, Niz.

[Mark Wallace]

First of all, let me state that I'm probably generalizing a bit, but I'm only doing this to give examples of what I don't enjoy, so I can get to what I do.

In theory, I love fantasy. I love the idea of magic, that force which defys all known explanation and makes anything possible, and its many uses. On the other hand, I have a really hard time getting into typical fantasy novels because they're so divorced from modern reality. Most of what I've read seems to follow the Tolkien model, set in a world that's either completely fictionalized or a magically-enhanced version of Medieval times that draws often on fantasy stereotypes ( such as the requisite dwarves, elves, dragons, orcs, and wizards ).
Nice. I'm currently working on exactly what you're looking for, because a big bug-bear of mine is the triteness and lack of characterisation (and creativity!) in the typical Fantasy story.

I hate the way characters always seem to talk in a perverted form of "Olde Worlde" English (whereas they would be talking an entirely different language, so why not "translate" it into modern English?)

I hate the way ridiculous alternatives are always "created", seemingly because the writers don't have a clue what to do next -- Oh, we can't cross the mountains of Wobbafloobiwoof, because the Trimbulings are in revolt, so we'll have to go through the caves of Nipitipitarimosum!"

I hate the way the characters are almost always cardboard cut-outs with no real personality (other than what is needed to make the story easier for the writer), and usually, as you say, copied from previous stories.

I hate the way major story elements are added ad hoc -- again, showing a distinct lack of ability on the part of the writer -- Little did you know that I spent ten years training with the Spellbinders of Flipplewobble, so I am able to counter your powers!"

I hate the way the stories are voluminously padded out with wet-dream descriptions of animals/monsters/places/etc.

And I Really hate the way no sensible explanation of anything is ever given -- see the Flipplewobble comment, above.

So I decided to do a hard, fast, Real People Fantasy story.

... And now I know that the market for it numbers at least one.

[snarkbunny]

You should try "Princess of Wands" by John Ringo as well.

Suburban soccer Mom ends up involved in a mysterious crime investigation and goes on from there. I don't want to put in spoilers but it does meet your criteria and Ringo writes a rollicking good adventure novel.

[blaix]

The "His Dark Materials" trilogy by Philip Pullman is great. It starts out in a not-too-old and not-too-far-from-reality England. It's written in pretty much regular English and is very easy to read and follow. The fantasy elements are written in a way that makes you forget that stuff like that doesn't happen in real life.

I had to get at least halfway through the first book before I really started to love it, but after that I was hooked.

[Matthew E]

I like this topic, and I think it points out something about fantasy: that fantasy should have elements in it that are weird and different, and standard medieval swords-and-sorcery isn't that weird or different (not that there hasn't been some good post-Tolkien work done in this area: Kay's Fionavar Tapestry, Tad Williams's 'Memory, Sorrow and Thorn', Keyes's current 'Kingdoms of Thorn and Bone', Carey's 'The Sundering').

And the king of 'weird' and 'different' has got to be Jack Vance. He's not like anyone else. Try his 'Dying Earth' and 'Lyonesse' serieses.

Also... someone mentioned R.A. MacAvoy. Her Tea With the Black Dragon is pretty neat in an understated way.

Barbara Hambly is one of my favourite authors. Most of her fantasy is set in, what shall I call it, worlds with less technology but more magic, but she's never trite about it: she always puts her own spin on things and she never pulls a rabbit out of a hat that you didn't see go in there in the first place. I recommend all her stuff but for a modern-setting book try Bride of the Rat God.

I also support a lot of the other recommendations in this thread.

[Mark Wallace]

I like this topic, and I think it points out something about fantasy: that fantasy should have elements in it that are weird and [i]different[/i
EXACTLY!

Most Fantasy writers seem to be content that they have followed conventions set down by other people. Where's the creativity in that?

There is so much room for creativity in the genre, and it horrifies me that so little of that room is occupied

[Karl J. Barnes]

EXACTLY!

Most Fantasy writers seem to be content that they have followed conventions set down by other people. Where's the creativity in that?

There is so much room for creativity in the genre, and it horrifies me that so little of that room is occupied

Don't you also think that part of the "blame" for this can be laid at the feet of the publishers,too?

[Mark Wallace]

Don't you also think that part of the "blame" for this can be laid at the feet of the publishers,too?
Possibly -- and it's almost certain to be the case, with some publishers -- but from what I've been told, most Fantasy submissions are virtually indestinguishable from each other, so they have only a limited choice.

[Ryan Day]

The whole genre is basically founded on Tolkien (at least from a popular perspective), and it hasn't really gotten over that yet, so lots of people want to write Tolkien-esque stories. That's mostly what gets written, so that's what gets published and subsequently bought. I think that fantasy, not unlike superhero comics, is the genre of many readers who know just what they want from books - a bit of tweaking here and there is find, but get too radical and no one knows what to make of it.

Of course, Neil Gaiman is kind of a genre unto himself, so it's probably just a matter of time before we start seeing waves of fantasy authors trying to emulate his style. China Mieville picks up steam with every new book as well, so I hope publishers are seeing that there is an audience out there for the more diverse stuff.

[Rachel Grey]

Well, De Lint's already been mentioned so that's me tapped out. :p

Any suggestion for similar writers?

[Rik Levins]

P.N. Elrod's Blood Files series--a hardboiled detective-type in 1930's Chicago, who also happens to be a vampire.

Speaking of the Dresden Files, I've seen ads that it's scheduled to be a TV series on SciFi, but does anyone know when it's supposed to premiere?

[Karl J. Barnes]

P.N. Elrod's Blood Files series--a hardboiled detective-type in 1930's Chicago, who also happens to be a vampire.

Speaking of the Dresden Files, I've seen ads that it's scheduled to be a TV series on SciFi, but does anyone know when it's supposed to premiere?

Here's some details and schedule:http://www.scifi.com/dresden/index.html

[jadedlemon]

Some historic fiction isn't that far off from fantasy (another world, another time). The Warlord Chronicles and the Grail Quest Series by Bernard Cornwell both had the feel/elements of some fantasy novels, especially Martin's Song of Ice & Fire where the otherworldly elements are limited (esp. early on)

[Mark Wallace]

The whole genre is basically founded on Tolkien (at least from a popular perspective), and it hasn't really gotten over that yet, so lots of people want to write Tolkien-esque stories. That's mostly what gets written, so that's what gets published and subsequently bought. I think that fantasy, not unlike superhero comics, is the genre of many readers who know just what they want from books - a bit of tweaking here and there is find, but get too radical and no one knows what to make of it.

Of course, Neil Gaiman is kind of a genre unto himself, so it's probably just a matter of time before we start seeing waves of fantasy authors trying to emulate his style. China Mieville picks up steam with every new book as well, so I hope publishers are seeing that there is an audience out there for the more diverse stuff.

Exactly. Gaiman is a perfect example of what happens to a genre when someone genuinely creative moves into it (as opposed to the typical AOL-ish "ME TOO!" type of "creator").

The comics genre is just as bad, if not worse, because the comics "moguls" seem to think that they know the "formulae" for making "good comics".

... But then truly creative people come along, write some comics (often causing huge changes in the whole industry), get fed up with having to deal with the mindlessly uncreative environment, and go off to do other things (or to "independent" comic publishers).

That's the problem in any creative field: Too many people think that repeating what has been done before is creative.

[Agent Helix]

I definitely second the recommendation for Jonathan Strange and Mister Norrell, it's a wonderfully written, seemingly faithful recreation of Napoleonic-era English society, and it builds on English myth and legend, while creating a few of its own, rather than simply regurgitating the foundation that Tolkein built.

I'd also recommend the works of Guy Gavriel Kay, particularly The Lions of Al-Rassan if you're looking for something realistic. That's ALMOST not a fantasy novel at all, but more of an impeccably researched piece of fiction set during the wars between the Spaniards and the Moors. His other historically based novels, Tigana, A Song for Arbonne, The Last Light of the Sun and the two-book series consisting of Sailing to Sarantium and Lord of Emperors are all excellent, and comprise a range of different settings, from fuedal Italy to Babylon, that Kay researches and recreates. Probably up your alley if you're looking for something outside of the standard sword & sorcery fare.

[Kid Bushido]

I've been looking forward to this series. Can someone tell me it's reading order, or at least the best way to read them.

[stealthwise]

What you're talking about is called "magical realism" in the biz. There's a good deal of it out there; it's one of Gaiman's specialties, as American Gods, Anansi Boys, and bits of Sandman show.

My tastes tend more towards the epic side of the scale, but I know of a few. Jonathon Strange & Mr. Norrell is one of the biggest successes in recent history. Jim Butcher's Dresden Files series is a nice mix of magical realism and crime noir. And there's a book that's got a very "Buffy" feel to it, about a suburban soccer mom who moonlights as a demon hunter, but I forget the title. I'm sure one of our fellow nerds will recall it, though.

"Magic realism" is actually the use of fantastic elements in otherwise realistic settings that are not true uses of magic or the supernatural, but manifestations of psychological or emotional conflict.

Ie. When David or Nate from Six Feet Under talk with their dead father, or Tommy from Rescue Me talks with his dead cousin. It doesn't have to be discussions with dead people specifically, but we as an audience are meant to know that they aren't really talking with the deceased. It's a plot device used sparingly.

[Karl J. Barnes]

I've been looking forward to this series. Can someone tell me it's reading order, or at least the best way to read them.

Here's a site that might help you out:http://www.iblist.com/series339.htm

[Solaris]

Well, they're not set in our world, but there's a couple of books out there that are very good in giving realism re: medieval-style military training:

Elizabeth Moon's The Deed of Paksenarrion. In the first half of the book, Paks is an 18-yr. old girl who joins a mercenary group, as a foot soldier. Some very good stuff on what it's like to fight in formation, using different weapons, etc... and what it's like to march all day, then fight, then march some more.

Tamora Pierce's Lyoness Quartet and her Protector of the Small Quartet (first books in each are Alanna and First Test, respectively). They both do a great job outlining the kind of requirements a page in Europe really had to meet, in order to become a knight.


And if you want something in a bit more recent history, I suggest starting the series Mercedes Lackey has going, with the first book being "The Fire Rose." They're set around the turn of the 1900's, and have a good bit of history (mainly regarding the treatment of women and "lesser classes") woven into them... which makes them great even without the magic!

Oh, and she has some set in modern world, too:

"Sacred Ground", about a Native American female private investigator, who also happens to be a Shaman in training. Great book. :)

"The Diana Tregarde" books. Diana is a "Guardian" who lives in NYC, and serves to protect people from the very real supernatural dangers out there (which most don't believe in). I strongly suggest reading "Children of the Night" first, *then* "Burning Water". That's out of publishing order... but chronologically, it's right---and it'll make a lot more sense if you read them the way I suggested. The third and final book, "Jinx High," IMO isn't quite as good as the first two; it leaves some things unfinished, and although that's very real world, for a reader like me, it can be a minor irritant. :) Warning: This particular trilogy has a LOT of violence and gore in it---but when you consider that she's going up against the "serial killer" types, that makes sense.

I believe she's got another series set in the real world, having to do with elves living among us, (no, not the "nice Tolkien kind"---some are quite nasty!), but I'm in a hurry right now and I can't remember the title of the first book in the series. Haven't had a chance to read it yet.

Oh, and I know you didn't mention scifi at all, but I really think you'd like David Weber's Empire from the Ashes trilogy. It starts with "Mutineer's Moon," is a very fast-paced read, and it's set maybe 20 years or so into our own future. The main character starts out as an astronaut on a moon mission, and in the first book, all the action takes place here on Earth.

Oops, gotta run get the kiddo to school!