If I Were Going To Make A Sequel To SUPERMAN RETURNS...

[Buzz Dixon]

...I would have the island flung into space continue growing until it became a huge cube.

Then I would have Bizarro arise from the blood of Superman spilled on the island.

[The Mirrorball Man]

If I were going to make a sequel to "Superman Returns", it would be called "Superman Doesn't Return", and it would be about a perfectly normal day at the Daily Planet.

[ragnarok_2012]

My sequel idea:

You see Superman's ship in space. Superman is looking around what's left of Krypton. As he reenters his ship, you see another ship spying on him from a great distance.

The other ship follows Superman back to Earth. Though this mystery ship isn't as quick as Superman's ship, it's still able to track the path that Superman follows. So it ends up reaching Earth a year or two after the events of Superman Returns.

The mystery villain inside the ship turns out to be Brainiac.

He wants Superman, his technology and the Earth for his collection.

[DDM]

Superman vs Braniac

Everything in Superman Returns would be ignored.

[Spike-X]

Superman Goes Away Again, But Thought He Might Have Left The Oven On And Has To Come Back To Check

[kmeyers]

I don't care how hard it is to make look real, or how much it costs, I want Doomsday. There could be so many great fight scenes, Throwing/punching each other through buildings, destroying the city, the military attacking, etc.

Instead of all the other heroes who helped him fight Doomsday in the comic, you could use already established non powered characters. Like, somehow Jimmy or some other normal character helps save Superman, or hurts/finds a way to hurt Doomsday somehow.

[ragnarok_2012]

I wasn't a fan of Doomsday, but you could probably do something with him in a movie setting.

The villains I'd love to see are Brainiac, Mxyzptlk, and Darkseid.

I enjoyed this movie, flaws and all, but I don't want them to endlessly rehash stuff from the first two bloody Superman movies.

[EZMOHR]

I don't care how hard it is to make look real, or how much it costs, I want Doomsday. There could be so many great fight scenes, Throwing/punching each other through buildings, destroying the city, the military attacking, etc.

Instead of all the other heroes who helped him fight Doomsday in the comic, you could use already established non powered characters. Like, somehow Jimmy or some other normal character helps save Superman, or hurts/finds a way to hurt Doomsday somehow.


I agree. I was kind of hoping the next one would be Lex Luthor creates Bizarro, or something like that. Maybe even Metallo. Maybe just Superman and the new Super-villian beating each other, with Lex manipulating behind the scenes. Just what I would like to see.

[Erebus]

Superman vs King Kong. Directed by Spike Lee.

[kmeyers]

I agree. I was kind of hoping the next one would be Lex Luthor creates Bizarro, or something like that. Maybe even Metallo. Maybe just Superman and the new Super-villian beating each other, with Lex manipulating behind the scenes. Just what I would like to see.
That would be cool too, any Super powered enemy to brawl with is good. But I really don't want to see Lex again. Lex scheming with a super villain is too much like Superman II...or IV where he creates a nuclear man, who might as well have been Bizarro.

I agree with Ragnarok, I don't want to see another rehash of any more of the previous Superman movies.

edit: and oh yeah. no more fucking kryptonite.

[Movie-Brat]

How about a sequel featuring Parasite and Livewire?

[StoneGold]

If it doesn't have a CGI Richard Pryor in it, I don't want to see it.

[ragnarok_2012]

If it doesn't have a CGI Richard Pryor in it, I don't want to see it.

How about Chappelle, Charlie Murphy and Wayne Brady? :D

[StoneGold]

How about Chappelle, Charlie Murphy and Wayne Brady? :D
If they can bring Brando back to life, they can do it for Pryor.

[Spike-X]

How about Chappelle, Charlie Murphy and Wayne Brady? :D
"Is General Zod gonna have to choke a bitch?"

[ragnarok_2012]

If they can bring Brando back to life, they can do it for Pryor.

On a serious note, that will only get easier and cheaper to do.

I think there will come a day where studios will be able to digitally recreate classic actors in their prime (audio too) and insert them seamlessly into live action movies.

Hell, you could argue that the technology already exists.

This is why I long to see a live action digital recreation of Alex Ross' art in a super hero movie directed by the guy that did the Iron Giant and Incredibles.

As an example, imagine Alex Ross' art used to create an apparently live action version of the Dark Knight Returns. :D

[kmeyers]

This is why I long to see a live action digital recreation of Alex Ross' art in a super hero movie directed by the guy that did the Iron Giant and Incredibles.

As an example, imagine Alex Ross' art used to create an apparently live action version of the Dark Knight Returns. :D
I was actually thinking about the best opening credits to a superhero sequel, and it's easily Alex Ross' paintings during the beginning of Spider-Man 2.

They were the perfect flashback images to remind us what happened in the first movie.

I'd rather see a real live action DKR though.

[ragnarok_2012]

I was actually thinking about the best opening credits to a superhero sequel, and it's easily Alex Ross' paintings during the beginning of Spider-Man 2.

They were the perfect flashback images to remind us what happened in the first movie.

I'd rather see a real live action DKR though.

I'd be happy with live action, so long as it was well made.

And those opening credits were incredible.

[VietN]

Doomsday is the ZZZzz, there's nothing to him. I say go with Brainiac and hopefully that leads to Lex getting his hands on a power suit!

[kmeyers]

Doomsday is the ZZZzz, there's nothing to him. I say go with Brainiac and hopefully that leads to Lex getting his hands on a power suit!
The brains(Luthor)vs braun(Superman) was zzzzz. even Superman IV had a showdown and facing something that might actually be a legitimate threat since Superman II.

[GRANT!]

I'm not going waste your time and write a long winded synopsis. I'll simply state a title and cathphrase for the next Superman movie.

Superman vs. The Giant Robots.

"Summer of 2009 you will believe a man can fight giant robots."

[kalorama]

Doomsday is unlikely. There's really not much in the way of character and motivation for the character. Noncomics fans would be borde shitless by him. I'd love to see more physical action, but not so much in the way of mindless fights. The ideal candidate would be Darkseid, but I don't see that happening. Too much backstory unrelated to Superman.

[GRANT!]

Doomsday is unlikely. There's really not much in the way of character and motivation for the character. Noncomics fans would be borde shitless by him. I'd love to see more physical action, but not so much in the way of mindless fights. The ideal candidate would be Darkseid, but I don't see that happening. Too much backstory unrelated to Superman.

Doomsday could work but he'd have to be created by another villan like Luthor, Brainiac or Mongul. Doomsday alone couldn't carry the movie alone.

[DonC]

I'd like to see the movie open with the funeral of Jason White.

After that it's all gravy.

[kalorama]

Doomsday could work but he'd have to be created by another villan like Luthor, Brainiac or Mongul. Doomsday alone couldn't carry the movie alone.

Doesn't really matter where he comes from, he's really a nothing character. If Braniac or Mongul are in the film, either one of them would be able to confront Superman physically. If they're going to go the "archvillain creates physical challenge for Superman" route, Bizarro or Metallo would be better choices.

[kmeyers]

I'm not going waste your time and write a long winded synopsis. I'll simply state a title and cathphrase for the next Superman movie.

Superman vs. The Giant Robots.

"Summer of 2009 you will believe a man can fight giant robots."
I already believe. The Incredibles showed how a superhero movie should be done.

[GRANT!]

Doesn't really matter where he comes from, he's really a nothing character. If Braniac or Mongul are in the film, either one of them would be able to confront Superman physically. If they're going to go the "archvillain creates physical challenge for Superman" route, Bizarro or Metallo would be better choices.

He's not much but at the same time it'd be kind of fun to see Superman fight a Hulk Knockoff. And they manage to make Doomsday a little more interesting in the cartoon. He'd also make a nice warmup before facing the main villan.

I'd prefer Metallo or Bizarro but I wouldn't complain if Doomsday was in the movie.

[kalorama]

Maybe fun for comics fans. But to noncomics fans (the majority of the audience and the biggest target in the monds of the filmmakers) he'd be pretty dull after the first few seconds. A mostly nonverbal destructive entity whose only purpose is to hit Superman? Superman might as well be fighting giant spiders or polar bears. If he's just in there for a throwaway fight scene, after which Superman quickly dispatches him, it might work. But if he's a recurring presence with an ongoing role in the movie, he basically becomes Bane in Batman and Robin. I don't think anyone wants to go there.

[GRANT!]

Maybe fun for comics fans. But to noncomics fans (the majority of the audience and the biggest target in the monds of the filmmakers) he'd be pretty dull after the first few seconds. A mostly nonverbal destructive entity whose only purpose is to hit Superman? Superman might as well be fighting giant spiders or polar bears. If he's just in there for a throwaway fight scene, after which Superman quickly dispatches him, it might work. But if he's a recurring presence with an ongoing role in the movie, he basically becomes Bane in Batman and Robin. I don't think anyone wants to go there.

Nah. For non comics fans he's a monster Superman fights. People like monster fights. It's like the Cave Troll in LOTR or the Rancor in Return of the Jedi. They weren't interesting characters but they provided a fun little fracas for the heroes. It'd be a good chance to show how tough Superman is when he's fighting a monster and provide a way for someone like Luthor to distract Superman while they plan something bigger. And a tad more fun to watch then say sending their girlfriend in a runaway car.

And visually Doomsday could look pretty cool on screen. Sort like a cross between a dinosaur and the Incredible Hulk.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

SR was just a bad dream Supes had in crio-sleep, in his 3 months trip to Krypton and back.

There, kid and hubbie retconned away.

Supes arrives on earth and finds that there´s an Intergang now operating in his city.

[Mike Smith]

In my take I'd actually want to follow continuity. Opening scene, I'd have Clark sitting in a coffee and a little bummed about projected figures for Superman Returns. He clearly heard about this when he was breaking the 4th wall.

He'd then get a determined look in his eyes, I'd crop in some Brando "You must not interfere with their history..." but of course Clark would ignore this.

At this point I'd have Superman fly incredibly fast while a remastered Brando went on about "Infinite Earths." Superman would eventually come upon "our" Earth, look at it for a bit, then start playing around with time travel.

Heat vision would be used to destroy scripts of Superman III and IV, aside from a Richard Pryor digital cameo.

From there he would spin the Earth a bit to a few months prior to June 27, 2006, and actually script Lex's scheme involving actual relatable weapons or another major villain to please action seeking audiences. He'd also recast Kate Bosworth, but not have the heart to write Jason out.

While on our Earth he'd also fall in love with an Earth media woman (perhaps an Ann Coulter cameo), somehow lose his powers, and do the deed.

Satisfied, he'd fly back to his Earth to see how the script changes affected things. Lois would be a more fiery actress with a tad more personality and he'd love it.

All things would go well until on our Earth, Ann Coulter gave birth to a little tyrant with superpowers.

Thus flows the opening scenes...

[Patient Boy]

...I would have the island flung into space continue growing until it became a huge cube.

Then I would have Bizarro arise from the blood of Superman spilled on the island.

So you want to remake Superman IV, but with Brainiac standing in for Nuclear Man?

[Buzz Dixon]

So you want to remake Superman IV, but with Brainiac standing in for Nuclear Man?I presume you mistyped "Brainiac" for "Bizarro." The kneeslapper is that in the original draft, Nuclear Man was Bizarro, but they couldn't come to terms with DC re licensing the character..

[une]

I'd have Luthor find a peice of alien technology that shows Luthor how to build a slew of advanced alien technology. Luthor uses this technology to become a "legitimate" business man. His newfound legitimacy is only on the surface though, as he uses his newfound technology and criminal connections to eliminate his competitors.

Superman would get wind of this, but when he tried to stop it he would find himself up against super Mettallo robots, almost as strong as him. After Superman defeats the Mettallo robots, he would confront Luthor only to discover that Luther isn't the real threat. The piece of alien technology that Luthor found is really Braniac, and he's been building a huge warship under Luthor nose, which he intends to use to destroy the world the for some reason.

Superman of course defeats Braniac and hands Luthor over to the Authorities. Lois Lane and Jason don't make any appearences in the movie. Much to my pleasure.

[Sean Walsh]

Brainiac would just have to be the villain.

My idea: he was an entity on Krypton (maybe some evil villain, maybe the planet's computer system) that somehow survived and came to Earth when Superman went back to see if he could find Krypton. And now on Earth, Brainiac attacks!

So basically, give Superman angst for going back to Krypton - because if he hadn't, Brainiac wouldn't be terrorizing Earth. I think some fans would appreciate him feeling like sh*t for taking off. :p

[kalorama]

Nah. For non comics fans he's a monster Superman fights. People like monster fights. It's like the Cave Troll in LOTR or the Rancor in Return of the Jedi. They weren't interesting characters but they provided a fun little fracas for the heroes. It'd be a good chance to show how tough Superman is when he's fighting a monster and provide a way for someone like Luthor to distract Superman while they plan something bigger. And a tad more fun to watch then say sending their girlfriend in a runaway car.

And visually Doomsday could look pretty cool on screen. Sort like a cross between a dinosaur and the Incredible Hulk.

The Incredible Hulk that moviegoers didn't go didn't go to theaters to see?

The Superman films (the new one or the old ones) really don't have a "fighting monsters" kind of vibe to them. I don't see that changing.

[Grazzt]

I think they should do a "For The Man Who Has Everything" movie, with BSOS taking the place of Wonder Woman.

[Dennis K]

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/pictures/2006/06/23/lex1.jpg


More Kevin Spacey

[GRANT!]

The Incredible Hulk that moviegoers didn't go didn't go to theaters to see?

Hey if the movie had more Hulk smash less Hulk psychodrama they'd gone and see it. Who did Hulk fight in that movie? The Hulk dogs, Nick Nolte and the military. It was fun to see Hulk chuck tanks around but the movie's plot moved at a snails pace.

The Superman films (the new one or the old ones) really don't have a "fighting monsters" kind of vibe to them. I don't see that changing.

Considering the cold reception the last three Superman movies received maybe it's time for a change. And Superman fighting monsters is something we've seen in comics and the cartoons. He's Superman he should be fighting monsters. Not bankrobbers, henchmen and Richard Pryor.

[kalorama]

And Superman fighting monsters is something we've seen in comics and the cartoons.

Which goes full circle back to my earlier point. The movies aren't targeted primarily to fans of the comics and cartoons. They're targeted to a wider moviegoing audience. I agree the films could use more large-scale action. But throwing action beats at the wall at the expense of character, plot, and motivation is what Shumacher did in the Batman movies, and the results were awful.

Like I said before, if Doomsday is in there in one throwaway scene where he's basically a guard dog whose ass Superman kicks to get to whoever his master is, that's one thing. But Doomsday is a character without much in the way of motivation or desire other than to kill stuff. He'd get awful tiresome as a recurring story presence.

A better (and more likely) solution is to have a villain who can physically challenge Superman and who has some actual character, personality, and motivation for his/her actions.

[Ontir]

It would be called: SUPERMAN in ACTION, which would be an homage to the comic that birthed him, as well as telling the audience what to expect. It would essentially be a giant fight scene between the Man of Steel, and Ruin, who would be, and remain for several films, an enigma. Those unfamiliar with the series would be wondering if it's Luthor, or someone new. The film would be occassionally from Superman's perspective, but mainly from the world watching the battle. Cat Grant in a GBS Newschopper, The Daily Planet gang watching the battle out their windows, while Lois is working on a piece about how Superman has tracked down 3 more of "Luthor's Lairs," only to find them abandoned - Superman's "hunt for Bin Laden." People on the streets whom Superman has to protect/save from Ruin.

[Erebus]

How about using some vaguely obsecure villain, like they Singer did before with William Stryker?

[GRANT!]

Which goes full circle back to my earlier point. The movies aren't targeted primarily to fans of the comics and cartoons. They're targeted to a wider moviegoing audience. I agree the films could use more large-scale action. But throwing action beats at the wall at the expense of character, plot, and motivation is what Shumacher did in the Batman movies, and the results were awful.

Hey I agree the action should serve the story. But I haven't heard a convincing argument that Superman fighting a monster wouldn't appeal to non comic fans.

People go on and on what non comic fans want. They want the same things we want. A good story and some thrills. If they can enjoy monsters in Lord of the Rings, Pirates of the Carribean and Star Wars why can't they enjoy monsters in Superman. It's not like Superman is grounded in reality. If they can accept an alien that resembles us flying around I don't think a big monster is that much of a stretch.

Would it break the formula of the previous films? Probably. But clearly the box office proves that formula isn't drawing people in.

Like I said before, if Doomsday is in there in one throwaway scene where he's basically a guard dog whose ass Superman kicks to get to whoever his master is, that's one thing. But Doomsday is a character without much in the way of motivation or desire other than to kill stuff. He'd get awful tiresome as a recurring story presence.

Where have I disagreed with this? I said from the beginning Doomsday would work better with another character. Doomsday can't carry a movie on his own. I agree. Move on.

[Ontir]

I've aksed this question a couple of times, and no one's ever answered it:

What IS the fascination with Doomsday? I think this is the worst half-a-character, from the worst story in the history of Superman, and I can't see why anyone would want him to ever be seen again. The only way I'd ever use him, is if the film series continued, either to a poing where Routh was going to step down, and use the death/resurrection of... as a vehicle by which to bring in the new actor, or preferably if Superman were to actually die and Jason were to assume his father's mantel.

[kalorama]

People go on and on what non comic fans want. They want the same things we want. A good story and some thrills. If they can enjoy monsters in Lord of the Rings, Pirates of the Carribean and Star Wars why can't they enjoy monsters in Superman. It's not like Superman is grounded in reality. If they can accept an alien that resembles us flying around I don't think a big monster is that much of a stretch.

Superman is a completely different kind of movie, in tone and atmosphere than LOTR, Pirates, or Star Wars. They're sword-n-sorcery, sci-fi set in worlds where the fantastic is commonplace. Superman is in an entirely different environment. What works for them doesn't necessarily work for Superman. And, in a substantial sense, the movie version of Superman is "grounded in reality" in much the same way the X-Men films and Batman Begins are. They all take elements of the fantastic and ground them in a close approximation of an otherwise "normal" world.

What works in comics (and whether Doomsday even worked there is debatable) doesn't necessarily work in movies, a truth many comics fans have trouble accepting.

Where have I disagreed with this? I said from the beginning Doomsday would work better with another character. Doomsday can't carry a movie on his own. I agree.

Your previous statements give the definite impression that you wanted Doomsday to have more than a 30 second walk on, get knocked out role, which is all I think he's good for if that), even if he's not "carrying the movie." If that's the case, then we definitely don't agree.

Move on.

After you.

[Jared]

I think it's just because Doomsday, as orginally concieved, was the monster so strong, so tough and so fast that he killed Superman. That image sticks with people, even though Doomsday has (last I recall, anyway) since been neutered in the comics.

I'm also of the "Braniac tracked Superman's ship from Krypton's remains" idea. Braniac alone is a villain that can provide a physical threat to Superman, whether as one android, or an army of them, or a giant robot. The only thing Luthor could really bring to the table in a sequel would be to kidnap Jason while Superman is busy. But I would absolutly avoid the tempation to have Jason become a Supertike saving dad from certain doom in the climax.

I wouldn't have Braniac just be out to collect things, or to conquer the universe, or to wipe out all non-machines. I'd reveal that as a supercomputer system, he was secretly responsible for Krypton's destruction, because he realized the effect of yellow solar radiation on kryptonians DNA, and determmined that they could become the utlimate universe-conquering scourge because of it. So with cold logic he decided to do what he thought was best for all life and eradicate all kryptonians. He comes after Superman to finish the job, and perhaps along the way comes to find something unsettling in the human genetic makeup as well.

[kalorama]

Doomsday was really the most ill-conceived idea for a major bad guy since, well, Bane.

[Ontir]

On this one point (and perhaps no other! :p ) you and I are in complete alliance!

[Jared]

You mean a spiky Hulk isn't a great character?! :eek:

[kalorama]

He's not even that. The Hulk actually has a personality, motivations, feelings, etc. The Hulk is an actual character. Doomsday is a marketing contrivance/plot device run amok.

[Ontir]

You know a relentless, unreasoning killer can be interesting. Take a look at the Dalek's in Doctor Who. They've got personality, and can actually be fun, as well as scary.

[Captain_Video]

I don't usually do this as it is kind of depressing thinking of what could have been but.........

Superman Returns

"Truth and justice returns to the American Way"

Every plot point would concern the themes Truth and Justice.

Act One

Superman returns to earth Jimmy Olsen, etc, etc.

Lois has a kid and resents Superman, because the kid's seemingly devine birth ( she was single ) is what reminded her about Superman and her relationship after she was mindwiped in Superman 2, Lois is naturally pissed.

Richard White doesnt exist, the whole angst is due to Lois being a single mother, Superman of course had no idea and feels terrible, Clark is feeling real unpopular at work being resented by all but Jimmy and the Chief, his bumbling act being all the more annoying as he has just returned from travelling the world and back into a cushy job, it isnt right it isnt fair, it isnt just.

Act 2

"The Truth hurts"

Does the world need a Superman ?

Lex Luthor has launched a media campaign against Superman and is in line for public office, a lot can change in five years it seems, people are not as receptive to Superman as they once where.

Superman hits back at the corruption he sees everywhere and vows to "Do something about it"

Lois is torn up about the kid.

Lex works in munitions this gives him a one up in public office, he is given free reign to design anti-superman systems in case he ever turns on the populace, creating the Metallo robot with Kryptonite heart, the government is keeping it under wraps and keeps the robot under lock and key...Lex does not let the government know the truth that Superman is benign.

Lois and Superman meet and he re-introduces her to her childish flighty innocent romance that she had long forgot, she lets him meet his son, they get married, Superman considers hanging up the cape, the world does not need him anymore....they both have to admit the truth to themselves.

Act Three

"Truth and Justice will always prevail against corruption"

Lex launches an attack using his media network to frame Superman.

He kidnaps Lois and the kid, with the most shady and nefarious means.

Metallo shoots Superman leaving him on his knees crawling towards Lex who has his son....Lois has broke free using her wits, and is broadcasting this to the world over Lex's network ( its lame but comic booky and kind of fun ).

Lex sees this and sends his henchmen after Lois, the kids powers activate in some small way, Metallo picks up on the kryptonian DNA turns to face the kid ( metallo's targeting system is based on the subtle radiation emitted when a kryptonian uses his/her powers )

Big Superman come back as he kicks the hell out of metallo, turning to Lex's henchman ( making sure the kid is safe as Lex bails )...Lois saved after she outwits all but one of the henchmen.

Lex gets caught trying to escape, learns the media can be a powerful tool and that the truth and justice ideals will prevail ( awwww ).

Superman flies off from the family home at the end and does the smile gag in space.

THE END

Very idealistic, very little action, would probably bomb worse than the current movie, but that is what I would have liked to see, nice little bit of fan fiction and day dreaming about the Superman movie I would make if I lived in cloud fairy candy land.

[Indigo Al]

I like the idea of Brainiac, Mxzklptk, with Doomsday as nothing but the monster muscle.

I'd love to have the Phantom Zone villains, but how can you do it any better than in II?

Recast Lois, give her some brass and spunk.

Get rid of Super-bastard and Cyclops.

More Clark time, let Jimmy and Perry share the action/peril.

No more Jesus poses, and no more martyr hospital scenes.

[Erebus]

How about Manchester Black? I loved how they portrayed him in Whats So Funny about Truth, Justice, and the American Way?.

[Ontir]

I think Manchester Black would be a great foil in the next film. He'd be the grittier hero who's come along while Superman was away, and as in the comic, Superman would have to show him what he's about, and why it's better than Manchester's way.

I like Mr. Mxyztplk (or Mxyzptlk, depending upon your preference), but he's got to be used very carefully. I also don't want to see a Superman film get into the two too many villains that became a problem in the old Batman franchise.

[ragnarok_2012]

I'm glad there are other people besides me that would enjoy seeing Mxyzptlk in a Superman movie.

Imagine the budget of Superman Returns used for a Superman movie featuring Mxy as the primary villain.

[GRANT!]

Superman is a completely different kind of movie, in tone and atmosphere than LOTR, Pirates, or Star Wars. They're sword-n-sorcery, sci-fi set in worlds where the fantastic is commonplace. Superman is in an entirely different environment. What works for them doesn't necessarily work for Superman. And, in a substantial sense, the movie version of Superman is "grounded in reality" in much the same way the X-Men films and Batman Begins are. They all take elements of the fantastic and ground them in a close approximation of an otherwise "normal" world.

What works in comics (and whether Doomsday even worked there is debatable) doesn't necessarily work in movies, a truth many comics fans have trouble accepting.


Well I'm not talking just about Doomsday. You seem to dismiss the possibility of Superman fighting any Monster. I mean are you telling me the non comic reading kids and fans who just enjoy action movies would object to Superman fighting a monster in a movie? Do they just want Superman to save planes, fight bankrobbers and throw landmasses into the sun for the rest of cinematic career. I think the general lack of interest in Superman Returns shows otherwise.

And I don't just mean monsters or giant robots. I think a general lack of the fantastic is what hurt the recent movie.

Your previous statements give the definite impression that you wanted Doomsday to have more than a 30 second walk on, get knocked out role, which is all I think he's good for if that), even if he's not "carrying the movie." If that's the case, then we definitely don't agree.

I just think he's good for an action scene or two. I just said he could work if there was another villan who was the main antagonist. I don't even particularily like Doomsday and I don't even think I own a comic with him in it. But hey if they wanted throw him in as some sort monster that Lex created to distract or hurt Superman then I'd be cool with that. I'm not looking for the Doomsday lifestory or an exact retelling of Death of Superman. If I had a choice I'd rather see Metallo.

[Buzz Dixon]

I have to disagree re Superman being primarily an action concept in any m medium. Once Superman brings his superpowers to the table, the story is effectively over: He stops all the bad stuff and catches the bad guys, the end.

Superman stories are about the thwarting of power, and not by being more powerful than Superman but finding clever ways to negate his use of power. Kryptonite and Mr. Mtyzplk's magic are prime examples of this, but all the best Superman stories involve Superman not being able to use his powers directly and/or immediately, thus forcing him to come up with a clever solution.

[kalorama]

Well I'm not talking just about Doomsday. You seem to dismiss the possibility of Superman fighting any Monster. I mean are you telling me the non comic reading kids and fans who just enjoy action movies would object to Superman fighting a monster in a movie? Do they just want Superman to save planes, fight bankrobbers and throw landmasses into the sun for the rest of cinematic career. I think the general lack of interest in Superman Returns shows otherwise.

And I don't just mean monsters or giant robots. I think a general lack of the fantastic is what hurt the recent movie.

I just think he's good for an action scene or two. I just said he could work if there was another villan who was the main antagonist. I don't even particularily like Doomsday and I don't even think I own a comic with him in it. But hey if they wanted throw him in as some sort monster that Lex created to distract or hurt Superman then I'd be cool with that. I'm not looking for the Doomsday lifestory or an exact retelling of Death of Superman. If I had a choice I'd rather see Metallo.

Well if that's what you say you mean now, fine. But that was pretty clearly not what you'd been saying before now. You expressed a definite, unambiguous preference for (A) monsters and (B) Doomsday. And that's what I responded to.

As I stated quite clearly, more than once, I think the films could use more physical action. That's clearly not a problem for me. You kept harping on the need for "monsters" citing LOTR and Pirates, neither of which have any relation to Superman. "Monsters" (as typified by Doomsday) are basically big dumb animals. Big dumb animals are not characters. They bring no drama, or audience identification, or story interest. Remember Bane in Batman and Robin? Remeber how everyone gnashed their collective teeth when they heard about the Peter Guber-shaped script that had Superman fighting giant mutated spiders outside the Fortress? That's what "monsters" get you. Like I said, I'm all for spectacular fight scenes. But spectacular fight scenes for the sake of specatacular fight scenes are just empty filler, esp. when one of the combatants is someone (or something) whose fate the audience has no vested interest in. Having Superman engage in physical conflict with a villain, an actual character, can serve the dual needs of action and story. Doomsday, a big dumb, intergalactic animal, really doesn't.

[Xero Kaiser]

I have to disagree re Superman being primarily an action concept in any m medium. Once Superman brings his superpowers to the table, the story is effectively over: He stops all the bad stuff and catches the bad guys, the end.

Superman stories are about the thwarting of power, and not by being more powerful than Superman but finding clever ways to negate his use of power. Kryptonite and Mr. Mtyzplk's magic are prime examples of this, but all the best Superman stories involve Superman not being able to use his powers directly and/or immediately, thus forcing him to come up with a clever solution..

If Superman is so powerful that you can't actually have him do....anything without the story being "effectively over", then something's wrong. Do like the animated version and tone him down a bit if you have to but give him something to do. Enough with the "oh noes, kryptonite!" routine.

[GRANT!]

Well if that's what you say you mean now, fine. But that was pretty clearly not what you'd been saying before now. You expressed a definite, unambiguous preference for (A) monsters and (B) Doomsday. And that's what I responded to.

As I stated quite clearly, more than once, I think the films could use more physical action. That's clearly not a problem for me. You kept harping on the need for "monsters" citing LOTR and Pirates, neither of which have any relation to Superman. "Monsters" (as typified by Doomsday) are basically big dumb animals. Big dumb animals are not characters. They bring no drama, or audience identification, or story interest. Remember Bane in Batman and Robin? Remeber how everyone gnashed their collective teeth when they heard about the Peter Guber-shaped script that had Superman fighting giant mutated spiders outside the Fortress? That's what "monsters" get you. Like I said, I'm all for spectacular fight scenes. But spectacular fight scenes for the sake of specatacular fight scenes are just empty filler, esp. when one of the combatants is someone (or something) whose fate the audience has no vested interest in. Having Superman engage in physical conflict with a villain, an actual character, can serve the dual needs of action and story. Doomsday, a big dumb, intergalactic animal, really doesn't.

All I said was Doomsday could work in a Superman and how he'd could be used in a movie. Didn't say I thought Doomsday should be this big important character in a future movie and I didn't say I wanted a Superman movie full of dumb unconnected action scenes. You seem to think otherwise or just wanted to argue something else. Whatever it's freaking annoying. So moving on.

[ragnarok_2012]

The next Superman movie needs a digitally created live action version of Sean Connery at the apparent age of 35 playing Vartox.

And maybe Terra Man could make an appearance. :D

[Alex]

Take out half of the lois lane scenes, thereby making superman the main character.
That would be my only contribution, the rest would be superman fighting giant robots.

[Sorcerer Supreme]

!!!!! Doomsday !!!!!

[Ontir]

Why? Seriously, I'm trying to find out what and why people are so fascinated by this character.

[Sorcerer Supreme]

Doomsday is one of the only villains who could give Superman a decent fight. I mean, did you notice that there was no fight scene in Superman Returns, c'mon, a superhero film with no fight scene!!! Doomsday would be excellent.

[kalorama]

Doomsday is one of the only villains who could give Superman a decent fight.

Bizarro
Metallo
Darkseid
Mongul
Maxima
Eradicator
Cyborg
Braniac (Android)

All of them can give Superman a good fight and all of them are more interesting characters than Doomsday. The fact that they're characters at all assures that.

[Buzz Dixon]

Y'know, I concede this could just be me, but I do kinda think Superman in particular and superheroes in general oughta be a little more than just "Bum Fights In Tights."

[kalorama]

All I said was Doomsday could work in a Superman and how he'd could be used in a movie. Didn't say I thought Doomsday should be this big important character in a future movie and I didn't say I wanted a Superman movie full of dumb unconnected action scenes.

And I never said you said any of those things. You said "Monsters" in general and "Doomsday" in particular could work in Superman. I said otherwise and explained why. Really, it's a pretty straightforward proposition. Not sure where the confusion comes in

Whatever it's freaking annoying.

Tell me about it.

So moving on.

Thank God.

[Rexi]

Bizarro
Metallo
Darkseid
Mongul
Maxima
Eradicator
Cyborg
Braniac (Android)

All of them can give Superman a good fight and all of them are more interesting characters than Doomsday. The fact that they're characters at all assures that.
those are the only two i would be interesting in seeing, i dont want intergalactic superman on war world or apokolips. they have to do a good superman movie on EARTH before he's allowed to leave. parasite i always thought would be interesting. SR really limited what can be done with the sequel, superkid kind of puts the gun to this franchises temple.

[kalorama]

those are the only two i would be interesting in seeing, i dont want intergalactic superman on war world or apokolips. they have to do a good superman movie on EARTH before he's allowed to leave.

I agree with that. but there's no reason any of those characters can't be used in an Earth-based story.

parasite i always thought would be interesting.

Forgot about him. Another good one

SR really limited what can be done with the sequel, superkid kind of puts the gun to this franchises temple.

Don't see how. They aren't obligated to build the next movie around the kid. He can just continue to be a background presence.

[Ontir]

I'm hoping Jason remains a bit in the background, until he's in his teens. He shouldn't be invisible, but I don't want to see him "Franklin Richards"ed, where he steps in and saves the day with his amazing mystery power.

I'd like to see something like Richard, Lois and Jason in the seaplane, after the wedding, en route to the honeymoon. The door opens, mid-air, and Superman steps in. Jason smiles and yells, "KAL!" with excitement. There's a brief conversation between the adults, Superman assures them that Jason won't be left unattended for a moment. He takes the boy, and his napsack, and the two deaprt the plane. We see Jason fly with Superman for the first time - to the Fortress of Solitude, where Martha Kent awaits.

This shouldn't be a step-by-step, "Jason in the Fortess." There should be cuts to other events around the world, and the central plot. It's main purpose is to show that Superman is, in a capacity that doesn't destory Jason's world, acting in a paternal manner, and beginning the boy's training. I also really want to see Martha have a chance to be with her grandson.

[Adrian Tullberg]

You know a relentless, unreasoning killer can be interesting. Take a look at the Dalek's in Doctor Who. They've got personality, and can actually be fun, as well as scary.

Metropolis. Morning.

A bright shiny day, the streets are bustling, the sun is reflecting of the skyscrapers -

- and SOMETHING SLAMS RIGHT THROUGH a skyscraper, from the sky DIRECTLY DOWNWARDS

The thing HITS THE GROUND, BOUNCES -

- AND SMASHES THROUGH THE TOP OF ANOTHER BUILDING, heading towards the ground again.

The object SKIDS ALONG THE GROUND, tearing up tarmac, finally stopping in front of the Daily Planet -

- the OBJECT is a bruised and dazed SUPERMAN.

SUPERMAN gets up, obviously sore. He looks down at his chest, and the 'S' shield has been partly BURNT AWAY, exposing some of his chest.

Several ENORMOUS CIRCULAR OBJECTS are moving over the city, THEIR SHADOWS covering most of the urban landscape.

LOIS CHARGES out the front of the Daily Planet, frantic. SUperman is moving like a punch drunk boxer.

LOIS: SUPERMAN! Are you alright?

SUPERMAN: They ... I just flew up ... and ....

A BRIGHT RED BEAM lances from the sky, and HITS SUPERMAN, ILLUMINATING HIM in it's glare. With a CRY OF PAIN, Superman is KNOCKED TO HIS KNEES

LOIS LOOKS UP -

- AN ALIEN POV LOOKS DIRECTLY AT HER. Whatever's looking down is decending, fast.

LOIS: (screaming, angry and afraid) WHO ARE YOU?

SEVERAL HUNDRED GOLD SHAPES ARE FLYING DOWN TO THE GROUND, TRAINING WEAPONS ON THE COUPLE.

A BLACK OBJECT is leading the hordes.

LEADER: YOU ARE AN ENEMY OF THE DALEKS! YOU WILL BE DESTROYED! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!

[Ontir]

LOL! Singer should start negotiating with Terry Nation's estate right now!

[Sorcerer Supreme]

Bizarro
Metallo
Darkseid
Mongul
Maxima
Eradicator
Cyborg
Braniac (Android)

All of them can give Superman a good fight and all of them are more interesting characters than Doomsday. The fact that they're characters at all assures that.

Fair Point

[Sorcerer Supreme]

Double Post

[Smarty Jones]

I would say Superman wakes up and "Superman Returns" was a bad dream.

[Ontir]

Fortunately that won't happen.

[Smarty Jones]

"Fortunately that won't happen."

Unfortunately, that won't happen.

[cactusmaac]

Bizarro
Metallo
Darkseid
Mongul
Maxima
Eradicator
Cyborg
Braniac (Android)

All of them can give Superman a good fight and all of them are more interesting characters than Doomsday. The fact that they're characters at all assures that.

Eradicator would be a little too similar to Brainiac. Mongul would be too simiar to Darkseid. Maxima does not make a very usable villain seeing as how she essentially wants to rape Superman. Metallo would make a decent thug to beat up in the first act or so. Lacks the oomph to be a major villain though.

Brainiac - at least the animated version - is a good villain and challenge but I don't know if the techy nature of the character lends itself to the kind of grand drama and epic moments that Darkseid would provide.

I disagree about Doomsday not being capable of supporting a movie. The Death of Superman arc is one of the biggest crossover hits modern comics has seen and viewer interest would immediately be piqued by knowing that Superman would be facing the enemy who had actually killed him.

Obviously Doomsday couldn't deliver much in the way of dialogue or character interaction. But the drama would flow from the tension of seeing Superman up against an unstoppable, immensely powerful destructive force who could not be reasoned with, bargained with or submitted to unlike say Zod or Darkseid.

I don't think Bane in Batman and Robin is an accurate comparison. He was the third villain in an overbaked, campy movie who was treated as nothing more than a drooling thug.

Following on from Jared's point, I think the Elite from AC #775 would have made great villains. They would have been best used in Superman Returns as a counterpoint to showing why Truth, Justice and all that other stuff was relevant when the alternative was preening, celebrity-obsessed amoralists who'd rather zap kittens than rescue them from trees.


I have to disagree re Superman being primarily an action concept in any m medium. Once Superman brings his superpowers to the table, the story is effectively over: He stops all the bad stuff and catches the bad guys, the end.

Superman stories are about the thwarting of power, and not by being more powerful than Superman but finding clever ways to negate his use of power. Kryptonite and Mr. Mtyzplk's magic are prime examples of this, but all the best Superman stories involve Superman not being able to use his powers directly and/or immediately, thus forcing him to come up with a clever solution.

In the comics sure, since it's hard to maintain writer or reader interest in a character who simply overpowers everything on a monthly basis. In the movies though, the special FX and action are what tend to draw crowds. And the best way to show that is by big, honkin' superhero-supervillain throwdowns. That's why the general public tends to prefer Superman 2 to Superman 1.

[kalorama]

Eradicator would be a little too similar to Brainiac. Mongul would be too simiar to Darkseid.

Which would only matter if they were both being used in the same movie which (A) wouldn't happen and (B) I'm not advocating.

Maxima does not make a very usable villain seeing as how she essentially wants to rape Superman.

Aside from the fact that that's a very inaccurate/skewed interpretation, there are any number of ways her motivation could be tweaked for a film.

Metallo would make a decent thug to beat up in the first act or so. Lacks the oomph to be a major villain though.

His history as one of Superman's major foes in comics and animated TV for the past several decades suggests otherwise.

[cactusmaac]

The point about the similarity is that there isn't much use doing a story with Eradicator\Mongul since you could most likely get the same from Brainiac\Darkseid.


His history as one of Superman's major foes in comics and animated TV for the past several decades suggests otherwise.

You could say the same about Parasite or Toyman. They might be decent villains for an episodic format but not for the main attraction for a major motion feature any more than say Ventriloquist or Mad Hatter would be for a Batman movie.

I really like the Doomsday idea. All WB would need to do marketing-wise is copy the "Doomsday Is Coming" ads from the comics.