Avengers/Defenders Switch-Up!

[J. Robb]

Hi folks! This is my first post on these boards, so I thought I'd discuss something I've been thinking about lately. Try to have an open mind, and let me know what you think (in other words, be gentle on the new guy!) ;)

Like many others, I thought the inclusion of Wolverine in the Avengers was a bad idea. But after a while I started to realize, let's face it- he's Marvel's Batman, maybe it's time he step up and act like the major league character that he is. So here's my idea:

What if Wolverine (gasp) left the X-Men and (gasp again) lead the Avengers. Only this would be real "New" Avengers, a team of (for lack of a better cliche) edgier heroes, heroes who you could see actually doing some "avenging".

The more classic heroes, notably Captain America, would start up a new Defenders, a name more fitting of his character. The two teams would be obvious rivals, sometime partners, and if done right should lead to many great internet debates on which one is better.

What do you think?

[Beast]

Wolverine isn't a leader, he's a loaner. It wouldn't make logical sense. Neither would him leaving the X-Men, as he's said many times that it's the only place where he feels that he belongs. If you want the Avengers to be edgy, they already have the Ultimate Avengers for that. Sounds like a generally bad idea to me.

[Expletive Deleted]

Eh, too OUTSIDERS-y.

I wouldn't object to Wolverine leaving the X-Men or joining another team full-time, but having him form and lead a team seems . . . somewhat problematic.

[Albert]

Hi folks! This is my first post on these boards, so I thought I'd discuss something I've been thinking about lately. Try to have an open mind, and let me know what you think (in other words, be gentle on the new guy!) ;)

Fresh fish, fresh fi-- sorry, just popped into my head. Welcome to the boards.

Like many others, I thought the inclusion of Wolverine in the Avengers was a bad idea. But after a while I started to realize, let's face it- he's Marvel's Batman, maybe it's time he step up and act like the major league character that he is. So here's my idea:

What if Wolverine (gasp) left the X-Men and (gasp again) lead the Avengers. Only this would be real "New" Avengers, a team of (for lack of a better cliche) edgier heroes, heroes who you could see actually doing some "avenging".

The more classic heroes, notably Captain America, would start up a new Defenders, a name more fitting of his character. The two teams would be obvious rivals, sometime partners, and if done right should lead to many great internet debates on which one is better.

What do you think?

I like the thinking behind your idea, just don't know if I like the idea itself. While the name Avengers always seemed to be a misnomer (just what are they avenging anyway?), its too ingrained in people's minds (a brand name, like Coca-cola) and just wouldn't be a good move to change it.

I could see Wolverine forming a team and finding someone else to lead it, but I can't see him leading it or sticking with it on a consistent basis. Make him the owner, not the manager. To be honest, the best model for something like this would be a Suicide Squad type book. Have Logan overseeing paroled super-criminals who are performing high risk missions to lessen their sentence. I'm not a big Wolverine fan, but I'd like to see him interacting with Rhino, Crusher Creel and other superscum.

[nuclearman]

What if Wolverine (gasp) left the X-Men and (gasp again) lead the Avengers. Only this would be real "New" Avengers, a team of (for lack of a better cliche) edgier heroes, heroes who you could see actually doing some "avenging".

The more classic heroes, notably Captain America, would start up a new Defenders, a name more fitting of his character. The two teams would be obvious rivals, sometime partners, and if done right should lead to many great internet debates on which one is better.

What do you think?

I don't mind the concept... don't like Wolverine leaving the X-Men but I like the idea of Captain America being in another team ... and that's the way the Civil War appears to be heading.

I am a big Defenders fan and would welcome the shot in the arm CA would give the title. Maybe a list of Daredevil, Luke Cage, Ghost Rider, Dr Strange, Captain America, Nighthawk...

Not a bad idea J.Robb and welcome aboard.

[J. Robb]

Thanks for the replies, folks. Obviously my idea goes against years of tradition, but sometimes I think, why not start a new tradition? I think it would be an interesting evolution both for Wolverine and Marvel as a whole.

Honestly, I just like imagining the message board debates about the "cool" Avengers versus the "boy scout" Defenders. :)

[Pheonix-NoRelation]

Sorry, but I just don't think it would work. Interesting thought but I just don't see it happening in the next 50 years. I do want a new Defenders team though.

[Alan2099]

Wolverine would sort of fit in with Namor and the Hulk.

[Haunt]

Sentry should definately be a Defender. he's already friends with the Hulk and a world-beater. he would fit in better/lend some credibility to the Avengers team. they've kind of been missing a 'superman-type.'

[mrc1214]

My Defenders team would be Captain America, Hulk, Silver Surfer, Dr. Strange, Ms. Marvel , and Luke Cage. I think it would be better if they did bring back the Defenders instead of making 2 Avengers teams. Wolverine could be on the Avengers but not a leader.

[J. Robb]

I'm not actually sure who I'd make Avengers and Defenders in my idea.

Avengers would probably be Wolverine, Spider-Woman, maybe someone new like Songbird (who was supposed to become an Avenger sometime in the future anyways), and... I'm not sure. Who's "edgy"? (god, I hate using that word. ;) )

The Defenders would be close to the old Avengers, more classic-style heroes like Captain America, maybe Spider-Man, Ms. Marvel, the Wasp...

One important aspect would be the two teams lining up closely in power-level. So I wouldn't want heavy hitters like Silver Surfer or Dr. Strange in there throwing off the scale. Like I said, one of the fun parts of the switch-up (and a good marketing ploy) would be to set up the rivalry between the two teams among the readers. To do this, neither team should be obviously more powerful than the other.

[Atom_basher]

Isnt your idea for the avengers basically what the thunderbolts are now?

[J. Robb]

Isnt your idea for the avengers basically what the thunderbolts are now?
Could be. I haven't read Thunderbolts since the original series basically ended (#75 or so?)

[mrc1214]

One important aspect would be the two teams lining up closely in power-level. So I wouldn't want heavy hitters like Silver Surfer or Dr. Strange in there throwing off the scale. Like I said, one of the fun parts of the switch-up (and a good marketing ploy) would be to set up the rivalry between the two teams among the readers. To do this, neither team should be obviously more powerful than the other.

Why would that be important??? Thats who the original Defenders were Silver Surfer, Namor, Hulk and Dr. Strange. And I think that they should bring that team back. The original Defenders besides 26-40 and Annual 1 werent really written up to there potential. I think that the Defenders should be the #1 team in the Marvel Universe. If you were to add Captain America, Ms.Marvel and Luke Cage to that team theyd be very hard to beat. I think that would be a great marketing ploy because people would be interested in what kind of disasters they would have to stop.

[J. Robb]

Why would that be important??? Thats who the original Defenders were Silver Surfer, Namor, Hulk and Dr. Strange. And I think that they should bring that team back. The original Defenders besides 26-40 and Annual 1 werent really written up to there potential. I think that the Defenders should be the #1 team in the Marvel Universe.
That's cool too, but I was just talking about the initial proposal I made in this thread, which is a whole new take on the Avengers and Defenders. Like I said, the start of a new tradition.

I liked the old Defenders too, if they bring them back that would be fine. I was just sharing some thoughts I had about Wolverine's place in Marvel and the names "Avengers" and "Defenders".

[phantom1592]

Why would that be important??? Thats who the original Defenders were Silver Surfer, Namor, Hulk and Dr. Strange. And I think that they should bring that team back. The original Defenders besides 26-40 and Annual 1 werent really written up to there potential. I think that the Defenders should be the #1 team in the Marvel Universe. If you were to add Captain America, Ms.Marvel and Luke Cage to that team theyd be very hard to beat. I think that would be a great marketing ploy because people would be interested in what kind of disasters they would have to stop.


I think that on a team with Surfer, Namor, and Hulk, that Mr. Cage will have to learn needlepoint. Seriously What would he bring to the team? Strength? Bulletproof Skin? Leave him out.


Also Wolverine has led the X-men before. He makes a comment about the burdens of Leadership before fighting Gray Hulk in an issue I used to have. I have no idea how well he did at it.