Should Wolverine be an Avenger?

[Leebenhouse]

It's pretty simple, A lot of folks have been complaining in the "Who Shouldn't be an Avenger" thread about this, so I decided to bring it to a poll. Personally, though I like Wolverine, he has classicly been treated as a "non-team player" via his membership in Alpha Flight/Leadership of the Flight, and his characterization in X-Men.

It always seemed to me that Wolverine only stayed an X-Man out of obligation, rather than out of choice. He was a guy with (at least in the older comics) a bloodlust, that he struggled with, but occasionally embraced, but that point of his character eventually seems like it has been dropped in favor of him being a so called "badass."

Wolverine always stayed a loner, when he was apart from the X-Men. Even though on a few occasions he went back to Canada to support his old team, and participated in team ups, I always felt that the point of his being an avenger so that, "they had a killer on the team" was a bit nonsensical, since both Cap and Iron Man have both taken lives in combat, and theres been other Avengers much more powerful, like Sersi, who've done the same.

As much as I like Wolverine, he's not a team guy, I vote no. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

[Dirk Anger]

I chose reservist. I agree that Wolverine traditionally is more of a loner, but from a reader's standpoint he still brings a lot of excitement to a team book.

[Will.S]

I chose reservist. I agree that Wolverine traditionally is more of a loner, but from a reader's standpoint he still brings a lot of excitement to a team book.
Yeah I'd keep him around as a reserve Avenger with him accompanying missions here and there.

[Serik]

Based on what I know of Wolverine's character, I don't think he'd be a full-time Avenger. Maybe a reservist to call up now and then. We all know why Marvel added him to the lineup though ($$$$$$$$$)

[Kaos]

no.

wolverine shouldn't be on any team, let him have a hiatus like ma$e for five years then come back, maybe he'll be exciting then.

[Pheonix-NoRelation]

I voted no. And this isn't just because I don't like him. (even though I don't like him) I mean, how many comics can you be in? Okay, he has own two. I'm fine with that. Then he's in at least two X-Men titles any given week. Alright, Imean, that's where he really got his start, (besides Hulk). But then you throw him in with the Avengers? When does he have time for all of this?

[Kirk G]

Why is this not like Spidey? After all, he's in no less than 3 of his own books, plus mini-series, crossovers and guest appearances, plus, poof, he's an Avenger now!

[Will.S]

Why is this not like Spidey? After all, he's in no less than 3 of his own books, plus mini-series, crossovers and guest appearances, plus, poof, he's an Avenger now!
Spider-Man grates less people and alot of people tend to think that Wolverine works best either soley with the X-Men or by himself.

Personally I still don't know how he's able to be in Origins and Civil War at the same time but I'm assuming that Origins happens either pre Civil War/Post HoM
or happens concurrently with the CW stuff.

[marshal99]

Wolverine should be a new avengers , old avengers , young avengers , ex-avengers , great lake avengers , west coast avengers , east coast avengers , cosmic avengers , in fact every superhero team needs a wolverine to complete the set. He needs the exposure. ;)

[Bobster777]

The only reason why I don't want him on the team is because Wolverine could care less about being on the team. The only reason why he agreed to it was because Iron Man paid him. So many heroes would jump at the chance at being an Avenger. They should be chosen over someone who is apathetic about it.

[Micro]

I'd say no, I think the character of Wolverine has been so deeply damaged in just a few years. They should have him burnt down to his skeleton, and spend a year or two recovering in a tank of water...

[dingo]

I say yes, because I see it as something Stan Lee would have done.

Marvel is doing a lot of things lately that are as ballsey as things Stan would have done. Wolvie in the Avengers is about the limit of ballsey things that are not likely to be retconned.

[mrc1214]

I say yes too. I think the Avengers should be some of the strongest/smartest characters capable of handling any disaster thrown there way. I didnt like the idea at first but im fine with it now.

[KittyPryde]

I voted no as I think he's already spread way to thin as it is. He should either be doing loner stuff or X-stuff. Avengers stuff on top of that is just too much.

And I consider him differerent than Spidey as Spidey usually hangs out in New York with enough there to keep him busy. So another NY committment doesn't seem to be as spread as thin. Wolverine on the other hand is in Antartica for one title, then Japan in another, then Germany in a third, and from NY to Outer Space in the 4th. That's too wide of a geographical spread so irks me more.

[jpk]

I'd say no, I think the character of Wolverine has been so deeply damaged in just a few years. They should have him burnt down to his skeleton, and spend a year or two recovering in a tank of water...

Nitro just did that and Logan healed in oh, 5 minutes, so we'll need another trick to put him out of commision. ;)

I vote no Avengers status for Logan. Plenty of good, interesting characters out there to plug his spot with. Now that NA sales are leveled off at 95-100K or so, it shouldn't hurt the bottom line to yank him off the team.

[Shellhead]

Why is this not like Spidey? After all, he's in no less than 3 of his own books, plus mini-series, crossovers and guest appearances, plus, poof, he's an Avenger now!

It's not like Spidey, because Spiderman's solo adventures, team-ups and crossovers these days are mostly in New York City. Since Parker's living at Avengers HQ, it's easy for him to be available for their adventures, too.

Wolverine, on the other hand, lives with the X-Men. That's not geographically convenient to New York City. And since Logan can't fly, run at super-speed, or teleport, that means that he potentially has to deal with mundane issues like traffic and weather conditions. On top of that, his solo adventures and guest-shots are more likely to involve distant locations, like Canada or Madripoor. Regardless of whether or not Logan is a loner, it is just physically ludicrous for him to be all over the map like this. Clone him or give him ready access to teleportation technology or something, but pretending there isn't a problem is part of the problem.

[Sean Whitmore]

First, let's nip this "loner" thing in the butt. Wolverine's motto may as well be: "If you have an organization, I wanna be a part of it."

Second, Wolverine should not be on any team that has a no-kill clause. Because he's gonna kill, and him not getting kicked off the team (or arrested) for it just makes the leader of the team seem weak and hypocritical.


SEAN

[The Shadow]

As much as I like Wolverine, he's not a team guy
And yet he's been on teams his entire life... from his army days to Weapon X to Alpha Flight to X-Men (many teams in fact) to New Avengers.

If the guys history wasn't FILLED with him and his TEAM exploits I'd say no... but the fact is he's a team guy.

[The Shadow]

I voted no. And this isn't just because I don't like him. (even though I don't like him) I mean, how many comics can you be in? Okay, he has own two. I'm fine with that. Then he's in at least two X-Men titles any given week. Alright, Imean, that's where he really got his start, (besides Hulk). But then you throw him in with the Avengers? When does he have time for all of this?
Dude... they're comics. This only doesn't work if you don't realize that. And remember comics show a small portion of a titles day. There's plenty of days left in a month for his many exploits.

[Green Arrow Jr.]

Wolverine as an Avenger is great I like it.He's one of Marvel's most popular characte next to Spiderman and look at the sales of New Avengers better than the Xmen according to Quesada.

[Porcelain]

I say yes too. I think the Avengers should be some of the strongest/smartest characters capable of handling any disaster thrown there way. I didnt like the idea at first but im fine with it now.
I agree with this, but I will say I don't think that with everything else he has going on he should be a constant full timers. Ideal world: he should get written out when he goes off on adventures (then ideal world, origins would make sense in continuity, ick that makes me sound geeky but still 4 places at once requires a lot of 'fudging' and stories should build on each other to allow characters to grow rather than stand alone).

Then given CW, who knows how much is rhetorical anymore?

[Calybos]

The presence of Wolverine, soiling the august ranks of the freakin' Avengers, is what has prevented me from buying the Not-Avengers title. Far more than the Spider-People (who I like, but who don't really belong there).

Give me the Young Avengers, or even the Thunderbolts, until this silliness blows over.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Yes, Wolverine should be an Avenger. It makes the Avengers AND Wolverine more interesting.

[Alan2099]

I have no problem with him being on the team, but it's been handled horribly so far.

[DDM]

No, Wolverine should not ever be an Avenger. Wolverine is an overexposed parody already with stunted character development as a result of his overexposure the past 5 years.

[DDM]

Wolverine as an Avenger is great I like it.He's one of Marvel's most popular characte next to Spiderman and look at the sales of New Avengers better than the Xmen according to Quesada.


Wolverine was extremely popular throughout the 80's, yet his only book was Uncanny X-Men with the 1982 Wolverine #1-4 then the follow-up Kitty Pryde & Wolverine #1-6 in 1984. Wolverine never was an Avenger then. But you know what? He was still popular. But what made Wolverine even better is the character development Logan gained. Today, Wolverine has no character development because he's in virtually every book with each writer taking Wolverine is 10 directions at once.

[Leebenhouse]

And yet he's been on teams his entire life... from his army days to Weapon X to Alpha Flight to X-Men (many teams in fact) to New Avengers.

If the guys history wasn't FILLED with him and his TEAM exploits I'd say no... but the fact is he's a team guy.

And how many has he stuck with/wanted to stick with?

2. And New Avengers was iffy.

Dunno much about his army days, all I know is that he lost an eye in the Devil's Brigade. But Team X to present?

2, X-men and New Avengers.

[Violently Apathetic]

No, and neither should Spider-Man. Ignoring the fact that he just doesn't fit in with the entire 'RWAR, KILL!' thing he's just in too many books. Avengers, to me, has always been good at showcasing characters who either could not hold a solo book very well or only required one book at a time.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Avengers, to me, has always been good at showcasing characters who either could not hold a solo book very well or only required one book at a time.
For me The Avengers are one of the rare - if not the only - Marvel team that still does the whole "saving the world" thing, and I'm glad Spidey and Wolvie get to do some of that.

[Brandon McKinnis]

I like him as a reservist, prior to civil war it would have been cool if Cap had said no, but Tony used him anyway without telling Cap what he was up to.

[Leebenhouse]

See, Spidey is much different. Al excuses for him staying solo were always somewhat lame, just to keep him his own thing. Spidey and the Avengers is the best thing to come out of this whole mess.

[Red Lotus]

I voted for the reservist. I dont want him to be a full timer. I'll say for time to time bring him in. But I did like the reason why Tony wanted him to be on the team. I also like that Cap knows Logan pretty well and he didn't really want him on the team.

[Billy Parker]

I like Wolverine as an Avenger! He's kick ass!

[Sean Whitmore]

And how many has he stuck with/wanted to stick with?



I can't say how long he's stuck with any one organization (between Marvel time and his own shoddy memories), but every formative moment of his life has been in part of one group setting or another. In no particular order:

The army (whose, I don't know), Weapon X (not the guys who installed his claws, I mean the missions he went on with Wraith/Maverick/etc), SHIELD, Department H, Alpha Flight, that tribe where he took a wife (the one that Bucky killed), the X-Men, the Avengers.

He also may have been in the CIA (I don't know if that was an implanted memory), he spent a long time training under Lord Ogun, and he was ready to take his place as the head of Clan Yashida.

The biggest hint that Wolverine's not a loner is how often he describes himself as a loner to his many, many, many friends and acquaintances. :)


SEAN

[J. Robb]

Wolverine is a loner like Batman is a loner. They're not fooling anyone. ;)

[Sean Whitmore]

Wolverine is a loner like Batman is a loner. They're not fooling anyone. ;)


They should get together and compare lists of everybody they know. Whoever knows less people wins, and the loser is a big wimpy emo. :)


SEAN

[Goldenbane]

I voted yes for Wolverine being on the team, but I don't like the way he was introduced and I don't like the way he's being written at the current time. I think there was a MUCH better way of Logan getting on the Avengers than what they've done.

[Leebenhouse]

The army (whose, I don't know), Weapon X (not the guys who installed his claws, I mean the missions he went on with Wraith/Maverick/etc), SHIELD, Department H, Alpha Flight, that tribe where he took a wife (the one that Bucky killed), the X-Men, the Avengers.

He also may have been in the CIA (I don't know if that was an implanted memory), he spent a long time training under Lord Ogun, and he was ready to take his place as the head of Clan Yashida.


Canadian Army for both World Wars(I think), Team X, Wraith/Maverick/Creed, CIA, the Flight/Dept. H are where he was pre-X-men

Army is one thing, you CAN't be a loner in there. Team X was a spec ops group, along with his CIA dealings. But CIA and a lot of black ops encourage only one tie, the Company. Dept. H/the Flight/Canadian Secret Service were all him being a royal outcast/not a team player, as the Flights only mission was a disaster, and Dept. H and the Secret Service were more jobs than team work. He can play the game, but at the same time, he's like a Rodman of superheroes, he may be good, but he's too much of a badass to get along with almost anyone.

[Kevinroc]

I can't say how long he's stuck with any one organization (between Marvel time and his own shoddy memories), but every formative moment of his life has been in part of one group setting or another. In no particular order:

The army (whose, I don't know), Weapon X (not the guys who installed his claws, I mean the missions he went on with Wraith/Maverick/etc), SHIELD, Department H, Alpha Flight, that tribe where he took a wife (the one that Bucky killed), the X-Men, the Avengers.

He also may have been in the CIA (I don't know if that was an implanted memory), he spent a long time training under Lord Ogun, and he was ready to take his place as the head of Clan Yashida.

The biggest hint that Wolverine's not a loner is how often he describes himself as a loner to his many, many, many friends and acquaintances. :)


SEAN

Wolverine was also a member of The Fantastic Four (The NEW Fantastic Four) and The Secret Defenders.

But c'mon, who hasn't been a member of The Defenders? They let in more people than anybody. The Defenders have had more members than the actual JLU animated series had JL members.

[Mjolnir]

I voted for occasionally, but here's my only demand:

that he wear the brown costume.

i think it distinguishes himself as something OTHER than an x-man.

[DDM]

I voted for occasionally, but here's my only demand:

that he wear the brown costume.

i think it distinguishes himself as something OTHER than an x-man.

Wolverine's brown costume was used since 1981 in Uncanny X-Men #139 & only changed back to his yellow & blue costume in 1991 when Chris Claremont left the X-Men books. Both the original & the brown costume are strongly identified with X-Men.

[Titan76]

I voted no. Wolverine doesn't belong on the Avengers. The Avengers are Earth's mightest Heroes and Wolverine though he does have a good heart isn't really a hero. The Avengers are in the public eye and how would the public take it seening Wolverine kill nearly anytime he gets the chance.

Not to mention Wolverine has always been more concern about mutant affairs which is why he joined the X-men. I also don't like the way Bendis writes him.

[The Mirrorball Man]

I voted no. Wolverine doesn't belong on the Avengers. The Avengers are Earth's mightest Heroes and Wolverine though he does have a good heart isn't really a hero.
If it were as simple as "Earth's mightiest heroes", Hawkeye would never had become an Avenger, nor the Wasp or countless others.

[unkiedev]

I think Loners make the best team members. Wolvie should be on the Avengers: He has a unique perspective and is one of the best fighters in all of Comicdom.

I think Wolvie believes in Charles Xavier's dream. He can best serve that Dream by being one of the toughest members of the World's Mightiest Heroes! Who is going to give muties a hard time after Wolverine is headline news saving Earth's butt time after time!

[Bobster777]

I think Loners make the best team members. Wolvie should be on the Avengers: He has a unique perspective and is one of the best fighters in all of Comicdom.

I think Wolvie believes in Charles Xavier's dream. He can best serve that Dream by being one of the toughest members of the World's Mightiest Heroes! Who is going to give muties a hard time after Wolverine is headline news saving Earth's butt time after time!
Well, at the same time, if you have a mutant killing people left and right, that might cause bad publicity.

[Rahul]

Wolverine should stay.

It was thanks to him, and Spidey being on New Avengers that I started actively reading comics. If either or one of them leaves, I'll be a sad puppy.

[unkiedev]

Well, at the same time, if you have a mutant killing people left and right, that might cause bad publicity.
Yeah, but that could have been anyone. It could have been Cap to be brainwashed to kill.

[The Shadow]

Well, at the same time, if you have a mutant killing people left and right, that might cause bad publicity.
How does he help the mutant cause as they are already hated and feared?

Also it's not like the Avengers are givernment sanctioned anymore... they don't have to play by the same rules as the old incarnation did.

[Brandon McKinnis]

How does he help the mutant cause as they are already hated and feared?

Also it's not like the Avengers are givernment sanctioned anymore... they don't have to play by the same rules as the old incarnation did.

Not to mention, I've gathered from the X Boards, that most X-Men have killed someone.

[The Shadow]

most X-Men have killed someone.
As have a lot of Avengers.

[Brandon McKinnis]

As have a lot of Avengers.

Well then it seems the people complaining about murderers on the team...really have no point.

[geordiesteve]

I voted no. He's wrong for the team, wrong for their ethos and overused. I love the character but I am so bored with him now it's unbelievable.

[shaunyc56]

I think Loners make the best team members. Wolvie should be on the Avengers: He has a unique perspective and is one of the best fighters in all of Comicdom.

I think Wolvie believes in Charles Xavier's dream. He can best serve that Dream by being one of the toughest members of the World's Mightiest Heroes! Who is going to give muties a hard time after Wolverine is headline news saving Earth's butt time after time!


I voted YES for this reason exactly. I want to enjoy action, plot, and the interaction between characters. Wolverine is the kind of guy who is going to get into interesting sh*&t on that team.


Does anybody remember when Pete saw MJ and him talking and he checks Wolverine. Wolverine says "Relax buddy, I'm not that kind of guy" Peter's reply is "Really, what would Cyclops say about that?" COOL.

[Bobster777]

How does he help the mutant cause as they are already hated and feared?

Also it's not like the Avengers are givernment sanctioned anymore... they don't have to play by the same rules as the old incarnation did.
That's what I meant. Him killing all over the place is bad publicity for mutants. The Thing even mentioned it during CW 1 about how Wolverine paints a bad picture for heroes.

[J. Robb]

I voted no. He's wrong for the team, wrong for their ethos and overused. I love the character but I am so bored with him now it's unbelievable.
I voted "Yes" for close to the same reason you voted "No". I'm bored with Wolverine, too. So... Do something different, shake things up! Put him in new situations and see what happens.

As I said in another thread, it's time to admit that Wolverine is Marvel's Batman. My nephews pretend to be superheroes all the time, and Wolverine is one of their top choices. He's a Major League Superhero, maybe it's time he step up in the comics.

[Mister Mets]

Yes.

1. It increases sales.

2. The fact that he's mostly a loner creates more tension, and drama, which makes things more interesting.

3. He brings something to the team that most other heroes don't.

4. The heroes who could bring the same willingness to kill to the team are rip-offs of Wolverine.

5. He's one of Marvel's two most popular characters. Why shouldn't he be on Marvel's premiere superhero title.

6. It increases sales.

[rwsmith]

no.

wolverine shouldn't be on any team, let him have a hiatus like ma$e for five years then come back, maybe he'll be exciting then.

Well, I think he's plenty exciting, but I do kind of agree that Marvel should put him on hiatus for awhile. Instead of starting a new series like "Wolverine: Origins," they should've just put him in the brown costume over in his own book and had him tracking down his past there for about a year or so. Then bring him back into the Marvel Universe in a big way by putting him back on the X-men with Astonishing X-men Vol. 3, by Mark Millar and Jim Lee.

What? A guy can dream can't he?

[old_schoola]

I chose reservist. I agree that Wolverine traditionally is more of a loner, but from a reader's standpoint he still brings a lot of excitement to a team book.
He is really not a lonanymore he is on every team known to X.He also has been potrayed as a team player though he gets it bothways alot.

[Leebenhouse]

Well, I think he's plenty exciting, but I do kind of agree that Marvel should put him on hiatus for awhile. Instead of starting a new series like "Wolverine: Origins," they should've just put him in the brown costume over in his own book and had him tracking down his past there for about a year or so. Then bring him back into the Marvel Universe in a big way by putting him back on the X-men with Astonishing X-men Vol. 3, by Mark Millar and Jim Lee.

What? A guy can dream can't he?
Yes, but Marvel wants our $$$, so you buy two Wolverine books instead of one. Joey Q. doesn't believe in making ¢, he only believes in $$$

[Loestal]

He is really not a lonanymore he is on every team known to X.He also has been potrayed as a team player though he gets it bothways alot.


What? He is on ONE x-team...ONE.

[alextron]

The Avengers needs the mythology it had before. Wolverine isn't a part of that, though he could be. His background is less mystical now that we know that he was James Joey Joe Joe from Ontario, who whoever he was.

All the stuff with SHIELD going rogue is good, but it needs to have a great underlying theme and stucture to it.

ON the other hand, if they start referring to Wolverine as James Whatmore (or whatever) rather than Logan, I'm quitten.

[90'sCartoonMan]

I hear a lot of people say that Wolverine adds great tension to the team, but I don't see it. The New Avengers are about to break up, and what has Wolverine really done in that book that makes him distinctively Wolverine? Heck, Ronin was more Wolverine than Logan is. All I remember him doing is not going out to greet the public with the others. Oooooh, he's quite the loner!

I think Wolverine only joins teams to hit on his teammates' redheaded wives.

I said "no" so he could step aside and let another character have panel time since Wolverine isn't making great use of it.

[pharoahe22]

I just don't see how people keep saying that Wolverine is just a loner, and he shouldn't be on teams...in all actuality, he's been on more major teams and spent more time on teams than anyone else in the MU lol: The X-men, Team X, the New Avengers, the New Fantastic Four, Alpha Flight, the Secret Defenders (haha I know they're not major, but you get the point). He has the tendency to go on solo missions, but that doesn't mean he's not a team player. That's like saying Batman's a loner, so he shouldn't be with the JLA...it doesn't make much sense IMHO because of what he does for the team. His work with all these different teams (along with his war experience) gives him more teamwork experience than just about any other character. This new Avengers team needs him, because Cap and Iron Man are the only two that really have experience with fighting as a cohesive unit, and now Iron Man splitting with the events of Civil War, they could use some experience. In all actuality, Wolverine should have always been on the team. I actually like him with the big guns better than with the X-men. It was said that Wolverine is the most feared man (feared by criminals) in the Eastern hemisphere. He's got a rep that strikes fear in the hearts of most criminals, which is a plus in any fight. He's saved the world numerous times by himself, and with the X-men. One time, his sacrifice actually allowed humans to move to the next stage of evolution. He also attempted to take on Galactus one on one for the fate of an alien planet...now that's ballsy lol. He's an A-list hero...why should he NOT be on Earth's Mightiest? If D-man, Gilgamesh, and horde of other c and d-list characters can be on the Avengers, I don't see why an A-list character shouldn't be on the team. He's actually beaten a helluva lot of Avengers before also. Just to make a little list of the Avengers he's taken down before:

Moon Knight, Rage, Darkhawk, Vision, Firestar, Justice, The Thing, the Human Torch, Hercules, Black Widow, the Falcon, USAgent, Namor, Quicksilver...there's some more I'm forgetting, but you get the point. He's had strong showings against other A-list heroes like the Hulk and Captain America just recently, and he's also proved he can get the drop on powerful characters like Iron Man. He's def got potential on the team. Based on his skill level alone, and what he can do for the team, he definetly deserves a spot in my opinion. I also think it makes for a good group dynamic, because of his long history with Cap and Spider-woman especially, and his interaction with Spider-man is always comical. Actually, for me, the recent Wolverine #41 sums up to me everything that makes him Avengers material.

[Berkey]

I could go either I mean I like Logan but he is in a lot of comics, but one thing he adds to the avengers is that bad boy side. I mean everyone is going to follow the rules that cap and tony set but logans not like that you can always expect him to do something (like almost kill a guy) to rile up Cap and stark which is fun to see a little order by chaos if you will

[lament]

I like Wolverine, but I voted no. He should be an X-Man and tend to his solo gigs. That's it.

[old_schoola]

He gets the concepts of teams and plays by those rules well.checkout Spiderman: the other.He is painted in a very team friendly light there!!

[Dustin]

No. He just needs to stay where he is.;)

[Bobster777]

No. He just needs to stay where he is.;)
Do you mean as an Avenger?

[Jeff-E]

I'm not a Wolvie fan really, but I don't have the problem I used to with him on the team. I thought at first that he didn't fit that he was a "loose gun" type, then it dawned on me... Not anymore, Wolvie really isn't the berserker he used to be. He really kills anymore, he quit smoking aparently, and he works well with others anymore. Sure he questions authority from time to time, but so does/did Hawkeye and he's regarded as one of the greatest Avengers of all times. Wolvie has been turned in to a teddy bear over the years and until they retcon him back to the early 80's when he was just an idiot that had claws, he works on teams.

*sorry had to edit

[curefreak]

I wouldn't neccarily have a problem with Wolverine on the team if he was written well, but Bendis doesnt seem to know very much about him and how hes changed over the years, so basically the Wolverine i see in NA is the same one we had in the very beginning and i think thats a shame and hurts the character a lot whom i think has been developed really well to me over the years.

[old_schoola]

I wouldn't neccarily have a problem with Wolverine on the team if he was written well, but Bendis doesnt seem to know very much about him and how hes changed over the years, so basically the Wolverine i see in NA is the same one we had in the very beginning and i think thats a shame and hurts the character a lot whom i think has been developed really well to me over the years.

I kinda agree bendis needs to write him with more depth...esp when he was in japan!!

PS.Flagg and Lazer I agree with you but dont drag Nick Fury in with them!!!

[Jeff-E]

I used to give this a resounding NO. But after thinking about it I decided, why not? He's not the loose cannon berserker he was back in the day. They've pretty well turned him in to a big teddy bear with a weird hair cut. Sure he questions authority, but so did Hawkeye, and sure he'll kill but so will Sentry. I just say why not leave him on the team, just give him more a speaking role.

[gyrich.]

He should NEVER be an Avenger. The Avengers are about so much more than mutant angst, psychotic fits, or the ( 95% of the time) negativism this character gets written with. They are the premier team in the MU and as such they set a high standard of honor and nobility. When ANY Avenger arrives on the scene they bring leadership and inspire hope no mater the crisis. They place value in each other and in human life. They do not kill out of expediancy. He has no place serving on a team (regularly) alongside the likes of Cap and Thor. They would not tolerate his blood and guts method of operation. * It would be like the Punisher joining.

* Not to ignore character maturity, current levels of restraint etc. but the nature of using claws as weapons makes him a slasher.

[Papa Moai]

IIRC... His track record is why he was invited. He could and would do things the others wouldn't, such as kill.I'm not really buying that. Recruiting Wolverine because of his willingness to kill is seems cowardly. Avengers like Cap and Iron Man are capable of killing. They are just reluctant to do it unless it's absolutely necessary. And they feel bad about it afterwards. As they should. So, it would be pretty low of them to recruit Wolvie into the team just so they can delegate the dirty work to him.

[BlackKnight]

I do get a kick out of everyone justify wolverine on the NA team. The lack of his use in the comic, lends to the idea that he is on the team as a gimmick. Something to draw the numerous wolverine fans in, and keep them reading, with hope of seeing wolverine more.

As for why he joined, in my OPINION it was one of the worst, most contrived ways I have seen in my 25 years of reading comics, and I read the Simonson Avengers.

[curefreak]

I dont really think Bendis understands Wolverine, so what we get is some bad characterization and having him act like the way he was in his early appearances ,surly and rebellious, he really doesnt act that way anymore hes def matured in a lot of ways and its sad to see that all be washed down the drain.

[hawkeye comeback]

i wouldnt mind wolvie if the avengers didnt have spidey or spiderwoman

[nuclearman]

I don't think he adds anything to the new avengers so I voted no.... I prefer him to be a loner or.... part of the X-Men doing what he wants.

[pharoahe22]

I don't think he adds anything to the new avengers so I voted no.... I prefer him to be a loner or.... part of the X-Men doing what he wants.

I don't really agree with that...I think Wolverine brings tons to the table:

1) He brings battle and teamwork experience. Spidey and Luke Cage may have experience in duos and team-ups, but outside of Captain America, no one else has an over abundance of experience in structured team situations. Logan was and still is the big gun of the X-men, who have arguably the best teamwork in comics. He's also led the X-men and Alpha Flight, so if Cap happens to go down, you have someone who can keep the team from falling apart...Some evidence of this was in the NA Annual vs. the Super Adaptoid. Wolverine is a battle tactician...he knows all the ins and outs of battle. It's good to have someone like that on your team. I can see Wolverine being a field leader.

2) His toughness is also an asset. Because of his Adamantium skeleton and healing factor, he can take a lot of abuse, which allows him to fight people who are physically more powerful than he is, like the Thing. He's one of those guys that can hold people off to give his other teammates a chance to recover.

3) His agility is on par with Cap's, which is only a level below Spidey's...his claws cut through anything...he can track any villain anywhere as long as he gets the scent. His vison, hearing, and sense of smell are far above that of a normal human...his olfactory sense is on par with Daredevil's.

4) He's arguably the best fighter in the MU (between him and Cap...no one else is close)...Don't you think it's an asset to have the two best h2h fighters in the MU on one team?

5) He's taken down whole groups of people by himself: the X-men, Alpha Flight, X-force, the New Warriors...and check out Wolverine vs. the Marvel Universe in Wolverine #134.

6) He has a long past with Spiderwoman and Captain America...especially Cap. He also has a tough guy bond with Luke Cage, and Parker is like the nephew he never wanted pretty much lol. As much as he claims to not like Spider-man, I think he's actually fond of him. Wolverine and Echo also have a bond and a bit of history.

7) He's had one of the biggest impacts on the Marvel U. as a whole (Someone at Marvel, I can't remember who, listed their impact characters as: Wolverine, Spiderman, Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Dr. Strange and the Silver Surfer)...he's the most feared man in the East for villains as it was said...he's saved the world by himself of many occassions, and even saved the universe by himself a couple of times...The NEW Avengers need a clutch members like Wolverine. Why shouldn't he be on Earth's Mightiest Heroes? The NA needs him especially with Iron Man and the Sentry bailing for the Mighty Avengers. People have to remember that this is the NEW Avengers for a new world...I think they need Wolverine for when things get dicey. He's got the experience, skill, and tougness that they need. Also, as you saw recently in the Civil War crossover, he was the only one who held the actual villains accountable for the start of the Civil War, and he brought justice to the victims of Stamford. The NA needs more "A" list heroes. :)

[Jadeskies]

Captain A would never allow wolverine to join the avengers, avengers don't kill (even though he killed baron blood.)

[DDM]

I think Wolverine needs to be imprisoned on some kid's lunch box. His healing factor would not be able to handle it once the paint starts to peel. Mojo could teach him a lesson...

[gyrich.]

See that's the thing, I don't see him as an "A" list HERO. Sure he can be a highly effective fighter/slasher but he doesn't have the heart and soul of a true Avenger.

This is a character who prides himself on being rude, obnoxious, disrespectful, and charmfree. So what if he has skills- he's the Terrel Owens of mutants. Why would a class act like the Avengers (a team made up of heroes honored, dedicated, and eager to be part of such an inspirational and august legacy ) want to deal with his attitude, image, and arrogance? He would work best among other beings of like character...Zemo/Fixer/Gobblin /Thunderbolts.

Also he is simply unworthy to act and speak like an a$$ to ANY noble longtime Avenger. The exchange between the Thing and Wolverine was the one accurate dialogue in CW.

[mattbib]

Why would a class act like the Avengers want to deal with his attitude, image, and arrogance? For the same reason they've tolerated similar behavior from others ranging from Quicksilver to Hawkeye to Moondragon to Hercules.

[Sean Whitmore]

Also he is simply unworthy to act and speak like an a$$ to ANY noble longtime Avenger.

Why? He's older than all of them except the gods, and more experienced than all of them except the gods and Cap.


SEAN

[The Shadow]

This is a character who prides himself on being rude, obnoxious, disrespectful, and charmfree. So what if he has skills- he's the Terrel Owens of mutants. Why would a class act like the Avengers (a team made up of heroes honored, dedicated, and eager to be part of such an inspirational and august legacy ) want to deal with his attitude, image, and arrogance?
Sounds a lot like Hawkeye.
Or Swordsman.
Or USAgent.
Or Quicksilver.

[Sean Whitmore]

Sounds a lot like Hawkeye.
Or Swordsman.
Or USAgent.
Or Quicksilver.

Or Hercules. Or Thor. Or Namor. Or Carol Danvers. Or...yawn...this may take a while.

And really, Hawkeye alone nullifies any argument that the Avengers wouldn't put up with a massive jerk as a teammate.


SEAN

[jmc247]

To answer this topic no Wolverine should not be an Avenger.

[The Shadow]

To answer this topic no Wolverine should not be an Avenger.
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd... why not?

Sean and I gave a list of people that are quite similar to Wolverine personality wise (several of whom have even killed before) that are current and reserve members of the Avengers.

[Calybos]

Are any of them psychotic butchers with an eagerness to kill again?

JadeSkies made a very powerful statement just a few posts back, with only a few words: "Captain America would never let Wolverine join... Avengers don't kill."

Avengers certainly have killed, but it's always been portrayed as 1) an absolute last resort and 2) a devastating, almost emotionally crippling experience. Ideally, a HERO should find the experience so traumatic that they swear never to cross that line again.

Does any of that sound like Carve-'Em-Up-and-Look-Around-For-More Boy to you?

[The Shadow]

Are any of them psychotic butchers with an eagerness to kill again?
No, but then I don't think that sounds like Wolverine either.

When was the last time he did that that wasn't against the Hand?

JadeSkies made a very powerful statement just a few posts back, with only a few words: "Captain America would never let Wolverine join... Avengers don't kill."
Yet Cap himself has.

Avengers certainly have killed, but it's always been portrayed as 1) an absolute last resort and 2) a devastating, almost emotionally crippling experience. Ideally, a HERO should find the experience so traumatic that they swear never to cross that line again.
I TOTALLY disagree.

Sometimes the situation might warrant it... while it shouldn't EVER become regular.

Cap killed MANY times in WW2. Several Avengers (Black Knight, Iron Man and a few I'm forgetting) killed the Supreme Intelligence. None of them was portrayed as crippled emotionallt afterwards. I wish I had my comics with me to find other examples.

But the Avengers has also been a place to go when despite a shady past. Black Widow was a spy, Howkeye, Swordsman, Wonder Man were all criminals, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were mutant terrorists and so on.

[pharoahe22]

See that's the thing, I don't see him as an "A" list HERO. Sure he can be a highly effective fighter/slasher but he doesn't have the heart and soul of a true Avenger.

This is a character who prides himself on being rude, obnoxious, disrespectful, and charmfree. So what if he has skills- he's the Terrel Owens of mutants. Why would a class act like the Avengers (a team made up of heroes honored, dedicated, and eager to be part of such an inspirational and august legacy ) want to deal with his attitude, image, and arrogance? He would work best among other beings of like character...Zemo/Fixer/Gobblin /Thunderbolts.

Also he is simply unworthy to act and speak like an a$$ to ANY noble longtime Avenger. The exchange between the Thing and Wolverine was the one accurate dialogue in CW.

Whhaaattt? lol It doesn't seem like you've read a lot of Wolverine comics man. For one, Wolverine's sense of Honor and duty is as strong as anyone else's in the Marvel Universe...it's embedded in him because of his samurai roots. He doesn't have the heart and soul of a true Avenger? Wolverine gained ultimate power at one point(X-men Annual 11), but gave it up, because he thought that no man should have that much power, and by doing so allowed humanity to move to the next stage of evolution. Even Thor was corrupted by ultimate power, so i think that's pretty damn noble. How many times has he sacrificed himself for the greater good? He might not die, but he's felt more pain in his lifetime than any other character in the Marvel U. Of all the wrong that's been done to him...all the pain, all the torture and brain-washings, by right, Wolverine should be a villain. If he lashed out after all of the wrong that's been done to him, people could see why. But instead of taking this rout, he decides to be a hero, and selflessly throws himself into situations that most other heroes wouldn't. Also, anytime someone is greatly wronged, such as Ichiro's son being killed, or the Stamford Massacre, Wolverine takes it as his personal mission to AVENGE them. These are the AVENGERS, right? You think Wolverine's not an Avenger, check out Wolverine #41 of the current volume when he's sent on a special mission by Black Panther and the New Avengers...You'll see what kinda person and hero he is. Also, there was nothing wrong with what he said in CW...it was just a smart ass comment. You're speaking as if he shouldn't get smart with the Thing...he's kicked his ass on more than one occassion...he's earned the right...and he's also proven himself as a big time hero. Even Mr. Fantastic referred to WOlverine as one of the "Big Guns".

Wolverine is said to be a character that really bonds with things weaker than him and becomes very protective, especially of kids and young girls...so there are plenty of sides to the character. So what if he likes to keep Cap on his toes? If I'm not mistaken, didn't Hawkeye and USAgent do the exact same thing? At times he may be a bit outspoken and a smart ass...like recently towards Maria Hill lol, but he's no Quicksilver or Namor...those two are pretty unsufferable...so if they can be Avengers, why can't Wolverine? And I'm pretty sure half the Avengers roster has killed someone before, including the big three, and Thor's prolly knocked off a LOT of people because the Asgardians are a warrior race...so how exactly is that different than Wolverine's samurai code? So you can't really use that argument either. It seems as if you haven't really been reading up on the character, because for the most part, he's been a team player with the X-men...he's their go-to guy. He really hasn't been the character you're talking about since the early 90's, when he was still dealing with control issues. All of the X-men trust Wolverine with their lives, and he's saved all of them at one point or another, so I think with all his accomplishments and all his world and universe saving that he's earned a top spot. This is the same guy that jumped in a spaceship to face Galactus one -on one to attempt to save an alien planet...nuff said. He's no where near the T.O. of comics...Ocho Cinco (Chad Johnson) maybe hahaha but not T.O.

[MadroxTMMan]

There haven't been many X-Men as Avengers before, with good reason I think. The Beast made a fine fit back in the day, and he fit in with the Defenders just as easily as with the X-Men. Maybe the writing had a lot to do with it. Wolverine feels like he's forced into the mix, as if the writer has to scramble up any loose connection or thin plot thread to justify him being there. It was like that rush in the speculator days of the 90's when the Punisher, Logan, Cable and Ghost Rider were miraculously in every Marvel title somehow, no matter how contrived or forced. That's what it feels like when I see Wolverine on the cover of an Avengers book.

[pharoahe22]

There haven't been many X-Men as Avengers before, with good reason I think. The Beast made a fine fit back in the day, and he fit in with the Defenders just as easily as with the X-Men. Maybe the writing had a lot to do with it. Wolverine feels like he's forced into the mix, as if the writer has to scramble up any loose connection or thin plot thread to justify him being there. It was like that rush in the speculator days of the 90's when the Punisher, Logan, Cable and Ghost Rider were miraculously in every Marvel title somehow, no matter how contrived or forced. That's what it feels like when I see Wolverine on the cover of an Avengers book.


I understand what you're saying...and if it was the regular, old school avengers with Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch and all those characters, it would feel forced, because he doesn't really have a strong connection with any of them...but for this New Avengers team, he has a strong, established relationship with Cap, Spidey, Spider Woman, and Ronin...and there are developing ones with Cage and IM...so that's why I don't think it's forced. Right off the bat, you pretty much know Cap and Logan's relationship except for the mysterious past stuff, and you know what Logan and Spiderman's interaction is like, before Logan's first appearance in NA. So to me it's like just putting all these characters who ALREADY interact with each other anyway in the same book. He fits in better with these NEW Avengers better than with the old school ones...but IMHO he shoulde've always at least had Reserve membership, just because he's earned that much based on what he's done.