The Biggest Misleading/Lie Marvel has told Us [Archive]

dingo

07-05-2006, 08:08 PM

Ok This is getting old. Marvel has been misleading us every now and then with misleading cover art such as Doom holding Thors Hammer and Marvel telling us that one of the Fantastic Four members would've died at the end of the one shot "death in the Family" and how House of M would have Canged everythhing we knew about the Marvel Universe. So here is a thread to talk/rant about how Marvel has mislead us with cover art and such. But keep in mind True Believer this is not a bash thread for writers and editors.:mad:

To be fair, House of M did change the MU an awful lot. Most of the meta-humans in the MU lost their powers. What more could you want in terms of changing the "universe". Note that this is the universe, not our favorite part of it.

The most recent one that annoyed me was Echo/Ronin.
Now I can understand about being confused by gender in this day and age, but that was a man. A big, burly, crush beer can's on his forehead...MAN.

Doom Hammer

07-05-2006, 08:20 PM

Ok This is getting old. Marvel has been misleading us every now and then with misleading cover art such as Doom holding Thors Hammer

My God, it's a cover. It is intended to catch attention to inspire purchase. How many covers actually reflect the happenings inside the comic? It's not new, it's not a big deal.

And the fact that you continue to post random covers and complain that they "didn't happen" is just...I can't think of a nice word to put in there. Oh, did you really think the Earth was going to be obliterated, and that all the heroes would die and their bones would pile on top of each other? Well, no wonder you feel ripped off all the time...

and Marvel telling us that one of the Fantastic Four members would've died at the end of the one shot "death in the Family"

One did die. I mean, it's a crappy, stupid story, but the Invisible Woman died. Again, it was kind of a cop-out, but not a lie.

and how House of M would have Canged everythhing we knew about the Marvel Universe.

It did change the Marvel Universe! It changed the landscape and purpose of the X-books, and inspired numerous follow-up stories.

Seriously, these are all fairly accurate. None of them are "lies" Marvel told you, and it doesn't lend credibility to your argument when you personify Marvel as a whole and comment on the awful things this entity did to you.

What's up with comic fans lately, where they have to whine about just about everything related to comics? Think about it. It's pretty much embarassing.

Doom Hammer

07-05-2006, 08:26 PM

Joe lied about wanting to kill speedball and later said he just said it to get people riled up.

I kind of like when these kinds of things happen, if they benefit the story. For example, the campaign with the Sentry not only tied into the story, but also created interest in a really great book. The same goes for Speedball/Civil War. Joey Q shakes your cage for the benefit of all.:D

Ronin, though...yeah, that was pretty bad.

Gadzooks

07-05-2006, 08:43 PM

the biggest crap lie was that stupid SENTRY crap they pulled on us

not only is he the stupiest caracter ever he just plains sucks ass !

here is a little info on sentry to the ppl who might not know him

The Sentry known as Robert Reynolds first appeared in his own limited series, where he was marketed as a long-lost hero, and in fact, the first hero of the modern Marvel Universe. This hoax was revealed to be a simple marketing ploy, and Robert Reynolds had been retconned into the Marvel universe. His popularity not diminished, he became a member of the New Avengers and has been the subject of another limited series devoted to him.

this left such a bad taste in my mouth and i couldnt believe marvel did that it was in such poor taste

dingo

07-05-2006, 08:46 PM

StoneGold

07-05-2006, 08:50 PM

This never happened.

http://superherouniverse.com/superheroes/marvel/images/captainamerica/cap1.jpg

In other words, suck it up.

Doom Hammer

07-05-2006, 08:51 PM

the biggest crap lie was that stupid SENTRY crap they pulled on us

not only is he the stupiest caracter ever he just plains sucks ass !

So I should trust your opinion that he is the "stupiest caracter", and that he additionally "sucks ass"?

Okay then. Those are two compelling and flawless arguments.

Sean Whitmore

07-05-2006, 09:02 PM

One did die. I mean, it's a crappy, stupid story, but the Invisible Woman died. Again, it was kind of a cop-out, but not a lie.

I have to admit, that book did piss me right off. It's not entirely Marvel's fault, but between the solicits and the rumors surrounding it (and this was just as Civil War was kicking off), I thought that it was going to an integral part of what was going on. Instead, it was a riciulous waste of time.

It's not that it sucked because it didn't tie in to anything...it sucked AND it didn't tie in to anything,

SEAN

1WEBHEAD

07-05-2006, 09:20 PM

dingo

07-05-2006, 09:30 PM

Fantastic 4's Death in the family
http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=4227
Where it says "Ben rampages after Sue’s killer, Johnny defiantly decides to do whatever it takes— no matter the cost or consequence— to see his sister alive again. What he does will change the way the Fantastic Four look at him forever."

Ben did hit the alien squid thingie. Perhaps hyperbole, but not a lie.
Why would that not change the way they look at Johnny? An alternate reality version of himself came back in time to prevent his sisters death even if it meant his own death. I would look at someone different after that. Again, perhaps hyperbole, but not a lie.

And in President Thor..
http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=4025
"...we find out what's really been behind Thor's ascendancy to the White House!"
Still waiting....
Read between the lines. Not everything in the world needs to be spelt out for you. The world had superpowers. Normal complaints about food shortages and national defense have a tendency to become irrelevant if that happens. Thor was a pacifist with the most experience with "powers". When people don't have other things to worry about they will concern themselves with social problems. That is how Thor got his presidency.
Oh and by the way, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid would have died.

Sean Whitmore

07-05-2006, 09:35 PM

Ben did hit the alien squid thingie. Perhaps hyperbole, but not a lie.
Why would that not change the way they look at Johnny? An alternate reality version of himself came back in time to prevent his sisters death even if it meant his own death. I would look at someone different after that. Again, perhaps hyperbole, but not a lie.

Still misleading as all hell, like it says in the thread title.

Five'll get you ten that the rest of the FF look at Johnny exactly the same after this story.

(Except he's in a coma now, but you know what I mean :D )

SEAN

Wannabe

07-05-2006, 09:36 PM

You don't like the Sentry... fine.

But what lie? There is no lie.

The lie is that Sentry never really existed as they said he did.Marvel started releasing all this stuff saying that he was a pre-Fantastic Four superhero created by Stan Lee, and him being the first Modern superhero for Marvel.

It was more of a joke than anything else, but that's what he meant.

dingo

07-05-2006, 09:39 PM

The lie is that Sentry never really existed as they said he did.Marvel started releasing all this stuff saying that he was a pre-Fantastic Four superhero created by Stan Lee, and him being the first Modern superhero for Marvel.

It was more of a joke than anything else, but that's what he meant.
Does that count as misleading or a lie? Wouldn't it be more of a retcon?

Wannabe

07-05-2006, 09:42 PM

Does that count as misleading or a lie? Wouldn't it be more of a retcon?
It was definitly a Retcon. But it wasn't just in the comics. It would be the equivalent of Bush saying that they discovered another president before George Washington.

Sean Whitmore

07-05-2006, 09:43 PM

Does that count as misleading or a lie? Wouldn't it be more of a retcon?

Him having always been around in the MU is a retcon. The "lie" was a marketing campaign that claimed Sentry was actually created by Stan Lee back in the 60s and only recently unearthed.

SEAN

dingo

07-05-2006, 09:54 PM

Pardon my ignorance, but when was it implied that Stan Lee created the Sentry?
I must have missed it.

Gadzooks

07-05-2006, 10:03 PM

it was a LIE ! marvel told everyone that the sentry was the first super hero ever created in the marvel universe and for some reason never made it to paper and that there resurecting him in a limted series!

which turned out TO BE A LIE TO SELL COMICS !

please check out the wikipedia info to get the full story

Sean Whitmore

07-05-2006, 10:04 PM

Pardon my ignorance, but when was it implied that Stan Lee created the Sentry?
I must have missed it.

This was before the first mini series was released. It was online everywhere, and I even remember a Wizard interview with Paul Jenkins where he went into a whole, "Oh, yeah, we found this old, unused character design" spiel.

It was pretty clever as far as marketing campaigns go. Kinda like when the people behind Blair Witch were trying to convince everyone that it was a real story.

SEAN

Gadzooks

07-05-2006, 10:06 PM

here is the full info on the sentry hoax

The Sentry is one of the strangest comic book superheroes to emerge in recent years. He was created by Paul Jenkins and Jae Lee for the Marvel Comics Marvel Knights line where he starred in a successful limited series based on a hoax about a forgotten Silver Age creation of Stan Lee. He returned in 2005 as a member of the New Avengers, and is quickly becoming a major character in the Marvel Universe.

The Sentry was marketed with a hoax. Comic industry magazine Wizard reported that Marvel had discovered sketches by an unknown artist named Artie Rosen of a superhero created by Stan Lee immediately prior to the Fantastic Four. The Sentry limited series was promoted as the first appearance of an unknown Stan Lee Silver Age hero. However, Marvel had made the whole thing up and Wizard had played along, for reasons revealed in the story.

The limited series established Bob Reynolds, a borderline alcoholic married man with possible psychotic delusions, as the Sentry, a Superman-like hero who derived his powers from a special serum. The Sentry was an optimistic and socially accepted hero who stood in marked contrast to the mostly freakish nature of Marvel characters. He had connections to Mister Fantastic, Iron Man, the Hulk, Spider-Man, and Professor X. However, his existence was retroactively erased by an unknown figure who tried to conceal the Sentry's identity even from himself. This was also the reason that Lee and Marvel had supposedly forgotten about the character. The Sentry's sidekick, Billy Turner, the Scout, had also been affected by this erasure.

It was revealed that the Sentry and his archenemy the Void required each other to exist, and as one grew more powerful, so did the other. The Sentry remembered that he was the one who had erased the world's memory of him and restarted the program that would do so, defeating the Void once again. The whole story can be seen as a meta-commentary on the darkness that overwhelmed superhero comics by the mid-80s, destroying the optimism and wit of the Silver Age.

Issues of New Avengers #s 7-10 revealed the true story behind Sentry's delusions and psychopathic tendencies. It was revealed that the Sentry has powerful psychic and mental powers holding his physical powers together. This fact was then exploited by the Mastermind, Jason Wyngarde, who was hired by a long-forgotten villain, the Crazed General. The Mastermind implanted a mental virus inside the Sentry's mind which gave birth to his delusions and eventual existence of the Void, which is actually his repressed persona. The mental virus subsequently impaired his ability to remember his old life and a solution he saw was to implant his memories into the comic writer Paul Jenkins, who then drew his comics.

Luckily for Reynolds, Emma Frost knew how the Mastermind's powers work and was able to cure him, paving way for his official inclusion to the Avengers and the installation (or appearance) of the Watchtower atop the Stark Tower.

A new eight-issue Sentry limited series by Paul Jenkins and John Romita, Jr. was launched by Marvel in late September 2005, spinning out of events in New Avengers #s 7-10.

dingo

07-05-2006, 10:11 PM

OK, Sentry was lied about.

You learn something new every day.
Sounds like a good lie/marketing campaign. You could definately believe Stan had created him. FF wasn't his first superhero gig. I doubt that they were his first superhero creation.

Sam T.

07-05-2006, 10:12 PM

This also never ever happened.....
http://www.dynamicforces.com/images/ultextinction1.jpg

Shame though.. :(

Yeah I really wish that would happen, then the Ultimate Universe would be no more!!

kel25

07-05-2006, 10:13 PM

please check out the wikipedia info to get the full story

Yes because they are a reliable source of information that is never wrong. :rolleyes:

But here’s the link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentry_%28comics%29) if anyone wants to look

I have never seen any thing that had Marvel claim he was created by Stan Lee or for that matter that old of a character. Sure they retconned one of the lamest characters (IMHO) into the MU. It’s not like they haven’t done stuff like that before. After all Apocalypse was retconned to be the first mutant.

kel25

07-05-2006, 10:14 PM

Yeah I really wish that would happen, then the Ultimate Universe would be no more!!

I feel the same way about 616 and Marvel Zombies. :evilsmile

Sam T.

07-05-2006, 10:19 PM

I feel the same way about 616 and Marvel Zombies. :evilsmile

Hahaha...I figured you would...!

Gadzooks

07-05-2006, 10:19 PM

in various wizard interviews (i wish i kept it but i dont have them anymore) marvel claimed that the sentry was stan lee FIRST superhero he ever created but scrapped it cuase he then made the fantastic four

and sold the limited series as the first marvel superhero !!!!!!!

it pissed me off soo much when i found out it was a hoax i felt marvel sold out

Lord S

07-05-2006, 10:27 PM

I too hate it when covers have nothing to do with the issues.

The cover for 'Nova' #2 of the 'Annihilation' series explicitly showed Nova fighting Drax...but that never happened in the comic.

Sort of the same thing for 'Wolverine Origins' #2.

X-Factor

07-05-2006, 10:40 PM

Dead is dead
House of M changing the entire universe and being ballsy about it
Speedball

DaJabberwocky

07-05-2006, 10:42 PM

The worst thing was when they said they weren't going to raise the price from $.25 to $.30, and then they did...man, they almost lost me there...;)

Sean Whitmore

07-05-2006, 11:07 PM

Yes because they are a reliable source of information that is never wrong. :rolleyes:

Not for nothing, but wasn't there something in the news recently about Wiki being correct about 80-something percent of the time, and getting better? I mean, I wouldn't build a bridge based on Wikipedia schematics, but I trust it enough to answer a question about a comic book.

I have never seen any thing that had Marvel claim he was created by Stan Lee or for that matter that old of a character.

Regardless of that, they did.

SEAN

Young Avenger

07-05-2006, 11:18 PM

The Sentry thing was a hoax. A marketing campaign to get the character out there. Get over it.

Leebenhouse

07-05-2006, 11:31 PM

Not for nothing, but wasn't there something in the news recently about Wiki being correct about 80-something percent of the time, and getting better? I mean, I wouldn't build a bridge based on Wikipedia schematics, but I trust it enough to answer a question about a comic book.

I once tried to use wikipedia as a source for a paper, and it pissed off one of my professors. 80% is still one out of five times wrong. Wikipedia is the reson in school they teach you to be careful of internet sources, since any old idiot can post on wikipedia, i'd say its just about as inacurate as ever.

Eh, I'm up in the air about the Sentry and Death in the Family things, but Sentry really takes the cake for which was a bigger lie. Death in the Family was just a copout, while Marvel actually fibbed about Sentry.

Sean Whitmore

07-05-2006, 11:39 PM

The Sentry thing didn't bother me in the slightest, but that's probably because the prospect of a pre-FF Stan Lee creation didn't interest me at all. If someone had bought the series BECAUSE they thought it was an old Stan Lee idea, I can understand them being pissed.

Death in the Family was released in an odd format (since when do nothing stories like this warrant a one-shot?) and heavily hyped at a time when a big crossover was being similarly hyped. When we're being told that "Civil War really shakes up the FF" and then we're told that "one of the FF dies in this one-shot", it's pretty likely some readers are going to think they're related and shell out $4 or whatever for some story that might have been written 10 years ago and kept in a shelf until now.

SEAN

Leebenhouse

07-05-2006, 11:41 PM

Yeah, that was definantly a fill in issue. Had a good reprint in the back though.

Mark Wallace

07-06-2006, 04:17 AM

Ok This is getting old. Marvel has been misleading us every now and then with misleading cover art such as Doom holding Thors Hammer and Marvel telling us that one of the Fantastic Four members would've died at the end of the one shot "death in the Family" and how House of M would have Canged everythhing we knew about the Marvel Universe. So here is a thread to talk/rant about how Marvel has mislead us with cover art and such. But keep in mind True Believer this is not a bash thread for writers and editors.:mad:
Hmm. Not been involved much in marketing, have you?

The Beeb did a study and show on happiness, recently, and the outcome of it was that the main root cause of unhappiness in Western society is marketing.

jcdenton

07-06-2006, 06:55 AM

"wasn't there something in the news recently about Wiki being correct about 80-something percent of the time"

This is the only study of the sort that I am aware of. It compared Wikipedia to the Encyclopedia Brittanica and concluded that Wikipedia had a slightly higher error rate on a per-article basis. However, this was more than offset by the fact that Wikipedia's articles are significantly longer and have more content (on average) than EB articles. Thus on a per-article basis EB's accuracy is higher, but on a per-page basis Wikipedia's accuracy is higher.

http://www.nature.com/news/2005/051212/full/438900a.html

Alistair

07-06-2006, 08:19 AM

This was before the first mini series was released. It was online everywhere, and I even remember a Wizard interview with Paul Jenkins where he went into a whole, "Oh, yeah, we found this old, unused character design" spiel.

It was pretty clever as far as marketing campaigns go. Kinda like when the people behind Blair Witch were trying to convince everyone that it was a real story.

SEAN

Particularly when you consider that the artist whose "death" resulted in the sketches of Sentry being "discovered" never existed, and neither did the comic that the character apparently saw print in. It wasn't exactly the most difficult shtick to see through.

KittyPryde

07-06-2006, 08:30 AM

Editorial staff lied when they said that the internet was going to crack in half....it still hasn't yet (has it?!?)

Expletive Deleted

07-06-2006, 08:33 AM

It did, but we duct taped it back together.

Keith_Martineau

07-06-2006, 09:37 AM

It was definitly a Retcon. But it wasn't just in the comics. It would be the equivalent of Bush saying that they discovered another president before George Washington.

No. It's not. Because it's an F'N COMIC BOOK! Step back from the edge a bit man!

It was a MARKETING PLOY and at the end of the day, they pulled back the veil and let everyone in on the joke.

Retcon? Yes.

Their right as owner, publisher, and stewards of the Marvel Universe. Yes.

Your right to NOT like the character or the retcon? Yep.

Your statement and comparison being about the most retarded thing I've heard in weeks? Yup.

Prime example of a comic fan living a little bit too much in THAT world, and not the real one.

Mark Wallace

07-06-2006, 09:42 AM

No. It's not. Because it's an F'N COMIC BOOK! Step back from the edge a bit man!

It was a MARKETING PLOY and at the end of the day, they pulled back the veil and let everyone in on the joke.

Retcon? Yes.

Their right as owner, publisher, and stewards of the Marvel Universe. Yes.

Your right to NOT like the character or the retcon? Yep.

Your statement and comparison being about the most retarded thing I've heard in weeks? Yup.

Prime example of a comic fan living a little bit too much in THAT world, and not the real one.
Pass me some of that coffee, would you?

Michael P

07-06-2006, 09:44 AM

Exposure to high levels of radiation gives you superpowers, not cancer.

Soundrave

07-06-2006, 09:58 AM

NEXTWAVE # 2
The Story: This Wednesday, WEDNESDAY, Wendnesday!! Witness the fight to end all fights!!! (Well, until next issue.) Aaron Stack (just don’t call him Machine Man) takes on Fin Fang Foom in a knock-down drag-out slug-fest! While his robotic body digests in Fin’s belly, the rest of the NEXTWAVE squad has to defeat the deadly Human Resource Department of their former bosses, the Highest Anti-Terroism Effort (H.A.T.E.)! PLUS: Things explode!! Pick up the comic that had Albert Einstein saying, “I haven’t had this much fun since my college days at Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule!”

Come on. Einstein never said that.

NEXTWAVE # 5
The Story: “The joy h.a.t.e. club”
It has been proven: NEXTWAVE is better than soap! NEXTWAVE has super heroes. Soap doesn’t. NEXTWAVE has Dirk Anger and his evil organization H.A.T.E.. Soap? Nope. NEXTWAVE has a battle between H.A.T.E. and Nextwave in #4. Soap is only at #2 with no H.A.T.E. at all! NEXTWAVE has all of your family members held ransom. Soap doesn’t even know your family. Four out of five dentists prefer Nextwave to soap. In fact, they were so emphatic in their preference, they beat up the fifth dentist and he fell in line. So five out of five dentists prefer NEXTWAVE. So will you! Part 1 (of 2)!

I'd like to see the credentials for these so-called "dentists." I don't think any self-respecting doctor of dental medicine would recommend Nextwave over soap, nor would they physically assault one of their colleagues. Come on. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Just more of the Joey Q. lie-machine.

Keith_Martineau

07-06-2006, 10:15 AM

Hehehehe.

Oh yes. And our Secretary of Defense never wore big red and gold armor.

At least, he probably didn't.

Simon Garth

07-06-2006, 12:09 PM

The Sentry thing was a hoax. A marketing campaign to get the character out there. Get over it.

Exactly. Jeez, Gadzooks - if you're really so hung up on this, you really need to get a life: if was (a) a joke, and (b) a marketing gimmick.

Gadzooks

07-06-2006, 12:21 PM

so its ok for someone to say and charge you for one thing then tottaly lie to you ?

i got some bridges to sell you guys

Expletive Deleted

07-06-2006, 12:27 PM

Here's the thing, Gadzooks.

A lot of us never believed it in the first place. The hoax was transparent if you knew anything about Stan or early Marvel. And once the first issue shipped, the metatextual angle all but cemented it. From my point of view, the "lie" enhanced the series rather than detracting from it.

DDM

07-06-2006, 01:06 PM

You don't like the Sentry... fine.

But what lie? There is no lie.

The lie about Sentry is Marvel proclaimed Sentry to be a long, lost Silver Age character when he is in fact a new creation.

BadAssMofo

07-06-2006, 01:20 PM

I think the biggest lie/farce ever has been the fabled "No-Prize". Has anyone ever got one of those??

Mark Wallace

07-06-2006, 01:21 PM

The lie about Sentry is Marvel proclaimed Sentry to be a long, lost Silver Age character when he is in fact a new creation.
Um... Anyone who knew anything at all about the silver age knew him to be a new character; it wasn't exactly a scam.

In point of fact, that no-one remembers him is a major part of the plot -- the evil wicked, nasty baddie even made comic readers forget that he existed!

Whom were we talking about, again?

1WEBHEAD

07-06-2006, 01:42 PM

This also never ever happened.....
http://www.dynamicforces.com/images/ultextinction1.jpg

Shame though.. :(

Guys what I meant about the Ultimate Exticion cover #1 is that Gah Lak Tus acually landing on Earth. Yes I know people wouldve died of all the craziness if Gah Lak Tus landed but Im sure they could of worked something out... Like some sort of forcefield that could contain all Gah Lak Tus and the Ultimates, Xmen, etc could have taken Gah Lak Tus down then at the end there would be one surving Gah Lak Tus bug thingie that could fly off back into space to regroup and plan what to do with earth.

riotgear

07-06-2006, 01:55 PM

Dead is dead
House of M changing the entire universe and being ballsy about it
Speedball

How about, "Variant Covers almost killed the industry... we're not making that mistake again!"

Are they blaming it on the pogs now?

Micro

07-06-2006, 02:00 PM

I think one of the most misleading lies Marvel consitantly tells is that
"Mary Jane is ruining Spider-man" when in truth, bad writing and editoral decisions are at fault.

Sean Whitmore

07-06-2006, 02:06 PM

How about, "Variant Covers almost killed the industry... we're not making that mistake again!"

The first part of that sentence is more of a lie than the second. Variant covers sell like gangbusters, despite all the complaining about them.

SEAN

drwho

07-06-2006, 02:10 PM

Don't know if this is fact but joe quesada came out and said recently Marvel Adventures Spiderman was Marvels most subsribed comic. Sure hard to tell that on CBR boards.

1WEBHEAD

07-06-2006, 02:21 PM

^^Yeah right, i wont believe it until I see numbers!! Its still possible though that its a bunch of 6 year olds subscribing after they see the movie.

Jack

07-06-2006, 02:24 PM

Marvel told me it would always love me, but then it left me for my sister! *sobs*

SMKSPY

07-06-2006, 02:27 PM

Marvel's biggest lie is...most of their books are worth buying.

riotgear

07-06-2006, 02:47 PM

Don't know if this is fact but joe quesada came out and said recently Marvel Adventures Spiderman was Marvels most subsribed comic. Sure hard to tell that on CBR boards.

I think he was talking about Marvel-direct subscriptions, not ordered through your bookstore.

Kevinroc

07-06-2006, 02:52 PM

Particularly when you consider that the artist whose "death" resulted in the sketches of Sentry being "discovered" never existed, and neither did the comic that the character apparently saw print in. It wasn't exactly the most difficult shtick to see through.

And appearances by The Sentry were in comics that never existed (such as The Incredible Hulk vol. 1 #7).

Mark Wallace

07-06-2006, 03:07 PM

The first part of that sentence is more of a lie than the second. Variant covers sell like gangbusters, despite all the complaining about them.
SEAN
Sure, but they don't re-sell.

... And don't we all feel smug over the cretins who pay good money for them..?

Steven F.

07-06-2006, 03:19 PM

This whole thread if funny and sad at the same time.

Funny, because of the reactions and posts from people who realize how silly this whole thread is, and sad because these are comics, and people are getting waaaaaay too worked up over a cover. Relax people. Wow, I can't imagine what you did when you found out Santa Claus wasn't real.

Mark Wallace

07-06-2006, 03:47 PM

Wow, I can't imagine what you did when you found out Santa Claus wasn't real.
???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jam37wcc

07-06-2006, 03:50 PM

Don't know if this is fact but joe quesada came out and said recently Marvel Adventures Spiderman was Marvels most subsribed comic. Sure hard to tell that on CBR boards.

I would say that the probability of that his very high. If I have kids I am going to subscribe to the Marvel Adventures books and give them to my kids. I probably won't read them seeing as I don't right now and I am not going to post about them and I am not letting my kids come on to these boards until they are older. Everytime I see my nephew I give him comics and I saw him often enough I would subscribe to some books and give them to him.

mushroom2703

07-06-2006, 06:09 PM

I'd argue that if marvel adventures is their top subscribed title, that their main audience is buying from stores not subscribing. but there you go.

As for Marvel's biggest lie? Xorn. In general, XD

Den

07-06-2006, 11:25 PM

I remember when they were trumpeting the Sentry as a lost silver age character created by Stan... that was definitely a lie that I found rather distasteful and it did indeed convince me to not spend my money with Marvel for a bit. I didn't wish to encourage hoaxes like that, but it was also years ago, and I won't punish the character for one dishonest marketing descion that was made when he first came out.

SUPERECWFAN1

07-06-2006, 11:52 PM

Marvel uses the internet very well to hype and push certain things. Sometimes it works and sometimes it fails. Joe finally had to give up plugging Sins Past as good work. He won't outright come out and say it sucks monkey balls (JMS works there) , but he is trying to get fans to look past it.

Alistair

07-07-2006, 02:14 AM

so its ok for someone to say and charge you for one thing then tottaly lie to you ?

i got some bridges to sell you guys

Thing is, it was exactly like the kind of situation where someone tries to sell you a bridge. It was so obvious that it wasn't true that it was clear that this was just the marketing shtick. Marvel weren't trying to convince anyone of it. The artist wasn't real, the comic he "appeared in" wasn't real. It wasn't a "lie" because nobody was expected to believe it.

Deadpooligan

07-07-2006, 04:10 AM

Trying to convince us that Spider-Man's powers are magical in origin when he was just bitten by an irradiated Spider. Science > Magic anyday, but don't ask Doom. lol.

Sean Whitmore

07-07-2006, 04:16 AM

Trying to convince us that Spider-Man's powers are magical in origin when he was just bitten by an irradiated Spider.

Didn't happen.

SEAN

Tater

07-07-2006, 02:11 PM

Spider-man from eariler this year. Captian America, Spidey, and Iron Man did not have a movie and popcorn party.

algertman

07-07-2006, 04:22 PM

The Sentry thing was a hoax. A marketing campaign to get the character out there. Get over it.

As much of a hard time as I give MARVEL, Sentry is one thing I that doesn't bother me. The Hype sort of tied into the story, about Sentry being the forgotten creation/hero.

DDM

07-07-2006, 05:02 PM

Trying to convince us that Spider-Man's powers are magical in origin when he was just bitten by an irradiated Spider. Science > Magic anyday, but don't ask Doom. lol.

JMS is aping Alan Moore's Swamp Thing's "Anatomy Lesson," grafting it to Spider-Man with "The Other." The horror theme just does not fit with Spider-Man. JMS completely missess the point about Spidey. He needs to be off the book pronto. Spider-Man is the everyman with incredible powers; he's still got a regular life. Yet with Spidey in the Avengers & now with this Other crap, Peter Parker is going farther from his roots. Marvel is trying to turn Spider-Man into something he's not.

algertman

07-07-2006, 05:59 PM

JMS is aping Alan Moore's Swamp Thing's "Anatomy Lesson," grafting it to Spider-Man with "The Other." The horror theme just does not fit with Spider-Man. JMS completely missess the point about Spidey. He needs to be off the book pronto. Spider-Man is the everyman with incredible powers; he's still got a regular life. Yet with Spidey in the Avengers & now with this Other crap, Peter Parker is going farther from his roots. Marvel is trying to turn Spider-Man into something he's not.

God, Alan Moore Swap Thing is one of my favorite runs. Also, Anatomy lesson was perfection. he was able to change Swamp things origin and for it to make sense

Kirayoshi

07-07-2006, 09:19 PM

How about the bait-and-switch they performed on Astonishing X-Men #4? An intentional deception, but at least there was a good payoff.

About two weeks or so before it was released, Marvel released some black-and-white pages from AXM #4, including a full-page spread of Cyclops gawking at what looked like a sillouette of the Phoenix. An hour later, they replaced that page with a shot of Ord preparing something nasty for the X-Men. For a few weeks the buzz was that Joss Whedon was bringing back Jean Grey.

Well, Joss brought back someone...

blopblopblop

07-07-2006, 10:32 PM

Bendis lied when he claimed that he cared about the characters of the classic avengers prior to writing the hack's wet dream of disassembled

Mark Wallace

07-08-2006, 03:12 AM

As much of a hard time as I give MARVEL, Sentry is one thing I that doesn't bother me. The Hype sort of tied into the story, about Sentry being the forgotten creation/hero.
Haven't you heard?

The Sentry is really a godlike being from another universe, who created a human form for himself, then put together a history, and planted false memories into everyone.

His main inspiration was Blink's sacrifice, so he recovered and revived her, and she has taken his place in running his universe whilst he's in ours.

The universe he comes from was brought into contact with ours by the same event that created the Molecule Man, but what it all really boils down to is the death (or one of 'em, at least) of Simon Williams.

The Kree Supreme Intelligence knows all about this, so has manipulated the Avengers into accepting the Sentry, so that he can use him to turn the Cotati into a vegetable garden, because he's decided that eating meat is murder (when was the last time you saw him wearing a fur coat?)

... Give it a couple of years; the hacks at Marvel will get there.

algertman

07-08-2006, 07:24 AM

Bendis lied when he claimed that he cared about the characters of the classic avengers prior to writing the hack's wet dream of disassembled

Don't even get me started on the "Love Letter" crap

DDM

07-08-2006, 09:08 AM

God, Alan Moore Swap Thing is one of my favorite runs. Also, Anatomy lesson was perfection. he was able to change Swamp things origin and for it to make sense

But how does grafting horror into Spider-Man work exactly? It doesn't. Swamp Thing was a troubled book until Alan Moore took over. I just don't think the horror element can work with Spider-Man.

algertman

07-08-2006, 09:21 AM

But how does grafting horror into Spider-Man work exactly? It doesn't. Swamp Thing was a troubled book until Alan Moore took over. I just don't think the horror element can work with Spider-Man.

A Spider-Man horror story COULD work. Though you would have to leave Spider-man AS Spider-Man not change him up completly like JMS.

You would have to write the story to fit Spider-Man. Not write SPider-Man to fit the story. If that even makes sense

DLFerguson

07-08-2006, 10:05 AM

Thing is, it was exactly like the kind of situation where someone tries to sell you a bridge. It was so obvious that it wasn't true that it was clear that this was just the marketing shtick. Marvel weren't trying to convince anyone of it. The artist wasn't real, the comic he "appeared in" wasn't real. It wasn't a "lie" because nobody was expected to believe it.

And if more so-called 'fans' were familiar with the history of Marvel and comics in general they would have known the whole thing was a put-on.

Mark Wallace

07-08-2006, 11:38 AM

A Spider-Man horror story COULD work. Though you would have to leave Spider-man AS Spider-Man not change him up completly like JMS.

You would have to write the story to fit Spider-Man. Not write SPider-Man to fit the story. If that even makes sense

Hell, yes, it makes sense!
When I started to take the old Spicy stuff seriously (because of the number of people who were going crazy about the character), I had to make a decision about where I was going to go with the story. That wasn't so easy as it sounds, though, because ol' Spicy is a bullshit idea that I thought would only cost me a couple of hours, and I thought it wasn't worth going anywhere with.

But if people like an idea, then it's the writer's responsibility to work with it -- even though I'm the kind of loony who's ideas you can never anticipate.

So what I decided was to take ol' Spicey through multiple genres -- Hell, the basic idea was that he live through ridiculous circumstances, so that wasn't too impressive a decision.

So, so far, I've had him go through typical spy-story stuff, typical horror-story stuff, typical romance-story stuff, etc, all with the "Ol' Spicy" perspective (so all as far from "typical" as you would expect).

So yes, please do put Spidey into a horror setting. Let's see how he would react!

But he would react to such an unexpected setting exactly as Ol' Spicy would -- and , in fact, he did, in the annual where he first met up with Doctor Strange.

That is: He would react IN CHARACTER!!!! He would be Spidey, in these unusual circumstances, just as my guy behaves as himself.

Trying to add a "mystical" element to his origins, though, was a big mistake, unless you're a writer like Frank Miller. He pulled it off with DD; I don't think Stra(however-the-Hell-it's-spelled) has the kind of procession in his creative thinking to pull it off.

So sure, have Spidey encounter mystical crap -- but have him encounter it as Spidey.

Sean Whitmore

07-08-2006, 11:45 AM

So sure, have Spidey encounter mystical crap -- but have him encounter it as Spidey.

Huh?

Was there any moment during the totem storyline where Spidey didn't completely disbelieve everything Ezekial/Morlun/etc was telling him?

How exactly was he not acting like Spidey?

SEAN

Sean McKeever

07-08-2006, 11:49 AM

Don't know if this is fact but joe quesada came out and said recently Marvel Adventures Spiderman was Marvels most subsribed comic. Sure hard to tell that on CBR boards.
It is, in fact, a fact. MA Spidey is a subscription-direct powerhouse. The reason you don't see people talking about it on message boards is because it's largely casual comics fans and kids who are subscribing.

drwho

07-08-2006, 12:35 PM

It is, in fact, a fact. MA Spidey is a subscription-direct powerhouse. The reason you don't see people talking about it on message boards is because it's largely casual comics fans and kids who are subscribing.

Hey I love the Marvel adventures books. Do you happen to know if the F.F. one and the Avengers one is selling well?Also tell joe we need an X-men one.

Sean McKeever

07-08-2006, 01:38 PM

Hey I love the Marvel adventures books. Do you happen to know if the F.F. one and the Avengers one is selling well?Also tell joe we need an X-men one.
I'm lucky I have an idea of how the stuff I write is selling, so I can't help you there.

I asked a few times why there wasn't an MA X-Men title but never got an answer, nor a chance to pitch it. Pity.

overcomebyfumes

07-09-2006, 01:03 AM

MARVEL'S TOP TEN LIES:

10). Marvel used to have those ads in the back claiming you could make a fortune selling "Grit". Yep, the hundreds of thousands of "Grit" millionaries are now driving the economy...

9). Super Soldier Serum actually does not make you into a perfect human specimen. At best, it'll just give you the munchies and make you paranoid...

8). Most people think that Galactus's name, "Galen", is pronounced "gale'-en", when it is actually pronounced "ga-leen'". While not an outright lie, Marvel has been extremely remiss in not specifing the correct pronounciation...

7). Marvel Comics fixed the 1919 World Series and blamed it on the Chicago White Sox...

6). The "Young Avengers" are being portrayed by actors in their mid- to late-twenties, who are being drawn to appear much younger than they actually are...

5). Wolverine's real name is Norton Gundersen, but Editorial decided that it didn't sound "heroic" enough, so they had it changed...

4). Ms. Marvel ... those aren't real. No way are those real...

3). Spider-man's new "organic" web-shooters do not in any way meet current FDA requirements for organic labeling. Marvel needs to remove the term "organic" until Peter Parker's diet is certified to be hormone- and pesticide-free...

2). The "Civil War" limited series does not reference continuity from 1861-1865, nor does it concern Lincoln, Lee, Grant, Gettysburg, Appomattox, Bull Run, Antietam or any actual battles, events, or personages of the Civil War. Unbelievably disappointing, and a real slap in the face to Civil War fans who are spending their hard earned dollars for THE CIVIL WAR, DAMMIT!!!...

1). The fights - they're not real. They're actually scripted. Well, the outcome is decided on beforehand by professional writers, but the heroes and villians have a lot of leeway in working out the choreography, and what stunts and finishing moves they're going to use. It's really more like "heroic entertainment" than actual fights...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"No More Mutants" - wouldn't it be fantastic if THAT were true...

Pax.

Young Avenger

07-09-2006, 02:01 AM

JMS is aping Alan Moore's Swamp Thing's "Anatomy Lesson," grafting it to Spider-Man with "The Other." The horror theme just does not fit with Spider-Man. JMS completely missess the point about Spidey. He needs to be off the book pronto. Spider-Man is the everyman with incredible powers; he's still got a regular life. Yet with Spidey in the Avengers & now with this Other crap, Peter Parker is going farther from his roots. Marvel is trying to turn Spider-Man into something he's not.

But JMS wrote so many other great Spidey stories. You want him off the book for co-writing "The Other" (remember, two other writers were involved in that story) and a creative decision he had no control over (Spidey in the Avengers). That's unfair.

Cowlander

07-09-2006, 09:52 AM

But JMS wrote so many other great Spidey stories. You want him off the book for co-writing "The Other" (remember, two other writers were involved in that story) and a creative decision he had no control over (Spidey in the Avengers). That's unfair.
youre not used to that from DDM's rants yet?

90'sCartoonMan

07-09-2006, 12:51 PM

I think the biggest lie/farce ever has been the fabled "No-Prize". Has anyone ever got one of those??

No-Prizes are real (as real as they can be). I won one in the late 90's. They're just empty envelopes, though.

I enjoyed the Sentry thing, I bought it hook, line, and sinker (since it WAS in Wizard). And when it was revealed to be a hoax, I just laughed and said "You guys got me".

There have been a few exaggerations/lies throughout Marvel's history that shouldn't have been, though. I once heard that when Marvel killed off Dracula, they included in the comic an actual certificate of death saying they wouldn't bring him back. But, aparently, that didn't last.

Ultimate Avengers was pretty misleading in its hype. They said it would be a direct adaptation of the comics and in some scenes you'd be able to hold up the comic to the screen and it would look almost identical (okay, my words, but they said something along those lines).

2). The "Civil War" limited series does not reference continuity from 1861-1865, nor does it concern Lincoln, Lee, Grant, Gettysburg, Appomattox, Bull Run, Antietam or any actual battles, events, or personages of the Civil War. Unbelievably disappointing, and a real slap in the face to Civil War fans who are spending their hard earned dollars for THE CIVIL WAR, DAMMIT!!!...

That was a pretty funny list, but to be fair, Lincoln and his speech make an appearance in ASM #531.

drwho

07-12-2006, 05:36 PM

I'm lucky I have an idea of how the stuff I write is selling, so I can't help you there.

I asked a few times why there wasn't an MA X-Men title but never got an answer, nor a chance to pitch it. Pity.

Sean any idea why Marvel doesn't seem to be marketing marvel adventures to the mainstream comic fans that shop in the comic shops? I love the books, but it gets annoying when people that haven't even read the Marvel Adventures line are calling them kiddy books.

Edward J Cunningham

07-12-2006, 05:43 PM

Well, there was an issue of Spider-Girl whose cover implied she was going to join the Fantastic Five. However, she just joined forces with them and did not actually join the team. Of course, if you wonder how Mayday would actually fare in the FF, just click on my signature!

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y165/eddiejc1/New_Fem_Four.gif (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/femfour/)

stillanerd

07-12-2006, 06:09 PM

How about, a least so far, that there is "no right or wrong side" in Civil War, when it appears pretty evident that Marvel wants us to support the "anti-registration" and not the "pro-registration" side, especially in light of S.H.I.E.L.D. director Maria Hill, Iron Man's Machiavellian actions, Reed's support of MacCarthyism (upcoming according to JMS) and how the anti-registration as being deined their civil liberties and freedom fighters.

Sean Whitmore

07-12-2006, 07:08 PM

stillanerd

07-12-2006, 11:31 PM

This certainly can't be considered misleading or a lie, for the simple fact that many people right here on CBR are on the pro-reg side.

SEAN

That may be, but the way the story is being presented so far, we're not supposed to be rooting for the "pro-registration" side, even while some may consider the actual application of a SHRA has logical merits but are discounted in Civil War in favor of a "Civil Liberties" angle. Besides, my overall point is that Marvel, prior to Civil War, went out of their way to promote the idea that neither side was right or wrong, but so far, it's pretty apparent where the various Marvel writers sympathies lie. Also, Joe Quesada has mentioned in one of his New Joe Friday's columns that the SHRA is essentially indentical to mutant registration, only with different trappings, or words to that effect. And as any X-Men fan can tell you, mutant registration was and is ALWAYS presented as being bad. And if SHRA is essentially just like mutant registration according to Joe Q, then it's pretty clear that Marvel wants us to think it's bad as well. Seems markably different than Marvel's earlier claims that they were trying to portray a middle ground. It's more of a "misleading/lie" in terms of the way Civil War was marketed rather than the actual story.

Sean McKeever

07-13-2006, 08:28 AM

Sean any idea why Marvel doesn't seem to be marketing marvel adventures to the mainstream comic fans that shop in the comic shops? I love the books, but it gets annoying when people that haven't even read the Marvel Adventures line are calling them kiddy books.
I have my ideas as to why, but I'd just be speculating. In any case, I don't think it's unreasonable that they're not going out of their way to toss ad money at the DM when the DM order numbers are as low as they are. Cost-free advertising, like JQ repeating how well MA Spidey does in subscription, is likely to turn more heads than anything else.

I would also hazard a guess that the non-digest sized MA Spidey hardcover (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0785124322) coming out later this year is (at least in part) an attempt by Marvel to generate interest in the DM.

algertman

07-13-2006, 08:33 AM

10). Marvel used to have those ads in the back claiming you could make a fortune selling "Grit". Yep, the hundreds of thousands of "Grit" millionaries are now driving the economy...

Not a lie. I made a fortune selling GRIT. Infact, the license plate on 300,000$ car says GRITMAN

Sean McKeever

07-13-2006, 08:38 AM

MARVEL'S TOP TEN LIES
Nicely done.

Jessica Drew

07-13-2006, 09:03 AM

Sean McKeever

07-13-2006, 09:11 AM

Sean, will you be writing any more MA Spider-Man? Those comics are great! There aren't many comic books out there now that I can let my five-year-old boy read, but this is one, and it's a good one, too.
No plans to, no, but I do have some more Spidey on the horizon--and not just Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane.

I'd suggest the upcoming Spider-Man Family: Amazing Friends comic for your son. A little of the icky romance stuff in it, but it's got that old-school Marvel vibe we all love so much, plus a 6-page Mini Marvels strip.

algertman

07-13-2006, 09:15 AM

This certainly can't be considered misleading or a lie, for the simple fact that many people right here on CBR are on the pro-reg side.

SEAN

Then you are not reading any title that is part of Civil War. It is extremely biased toward the anti-reg side.

MythicBrawn

07-13-2006, 09:46 AM

How about the most obvious: NO MORE MUTANTS!!!

Not only are there still mutants running around, but a group of them that were de-powered are getting re-powered. Bring back the status quo!!! Down with evolution!!!! Hopefully, no one has already mentioned this one.

Expletive Deleted

07-13-2006, 09:57 AM

"No more mutants" sounds a lot cooler than "a dramatic reduction in the number of non-marketable mutants and a slight (and partially reversible) reduction in the number of marketable mutants."

R Krippler

07-13-2006, 10:48 AM

"No more mutants" sounds a lot cooler than "a dramatic reduction in the number of non-marketable mutants and a slight (and partially reversible) reduction in the number of marketable mutants."
HA.

The only misleadings that upset me were the Iceman and Angel depowerization. Those would have lead to some interesting stories.

algertman

07-13-2006, 11:44 AM

"No more mutants" sounds a lot cooler than "a dramatic reduction in the number of non-marketable mutants and a slight (and partially reversible) reduction in the number of marketable mutants."

"No More Mutants" was JoeQ's way at getting back at Grant Morrison.

In the process devolved the X-Men titles a good 15 years

stillanerd

07-13-2006, 01:36 PM

"No More Mutants" was JoeQ's way at getting back at Grant Morrison.

In the process devolved the X-Men titles a good 15 years

Actually, the systematic revenge against Morrison's New X-Men started with Marvel retconning the notion that Xorn wasn't the real Magento--even though he clearly was--a move which has led to endless confussion and "solutions" to explain it away, most recently in New Avengers #20. Seems the only X-writer to even acknowledge and build off of Morrison's run is Joss Whedon. As for the "No More Mutants," I understand the need to make them a minority, but that doesn't mean they have to be an endangered species. And isn't it ironic that, even though there were supposively less mutants, there was an increase in X-Men titles after "House of M." And just to emphasize how pointless the "No More Mutants" angle became, we have Reed Richards in Civil War #2 argue that registration is necessary because of his calculations show a statistical increase in people with super powers. Wouldn't that also include mutants?

drwho

07-13-2006, 01:42 PM

I think Marvel meant Wanda to say "No more cr@ppy mutants", but had to edit it for the children.

Kyle Richmond III

07-13-2006, 02:01 PM

My God, it's a cover. It is intended to catch attention to inspire purchase. How many covers actually reflect the happenings inside the comic? It's not new, it's not a big deal.

And the fact that you continue to post random covers and complain that they "didn't happen" is just...I can't think of a nice word to put in there. Oh, did you really think the Earth was going to be obliterated, and that all the heroes would die and their bones would pile on top of each other? Well, no wonder you feel ripped off all the time...

One did die. I mean, it's a crappy, stupid story, but the Invisible Woman died. Again, it was kind of a cop-out, but not a lie.

It did change the Marvel Universe! It changed the landscape and purpose of the X-books, and inspired numerous follow-up stories.

Seriously, these are all fairly accurate. None of them are "lies" Marvel told you, and it doesn't lend credibility to your argument when you personify Marvel as a whole and comment on the awful things this entity did to you.

What's up with comic fans lately, where they have to whine about just about everything related to comics? Think about it. It's pretty much embarassing.

I start a slow clap for you sir. Stand up and shine this is your moment.

Nesteaman

07-13-2006, 02:45 PM

So I should trust your opinion that he is the "stupiest caracter", and that he additionally "sucks ass"?

Okay then. Those are two compelling and flawless arguments.

you know he did have a bit of a point.

Sean Whitmore

07-13-2006, 02:55 PM

you know he did have a bit of a point.

Yeah, but we don't count the one on top of his head.

Ba-DUM-bum! :D

SEAN

streator

07-13-2006, 03:19 PM

kevin smith writing a monthly spider-man title after 'the evil that men do'.
ronin being important to new avengers
icon being a line that fans could get work published in

algertman

07-13-2006, 03:25 PM

I think Marvel meant Wanda to say "No more cr@ppy mutants", but had to edit it for the children.

We were still stuck with X-23, so I doubt it :D

StoneGold

07-13-2006, 03:35 PM

icon being a line that fans could get work published in
Now you're the one lying. Icon is their line for creator owned stuff. Always has been. Are you thinking of Epic? Cuz like one or two did, before the thing imploded.

stillanerd

07-13-2006, 05:43 PM

How about this one: that Sins Past was going to fit perfectly into Spider-Man's continuity, even though JMS blew that from the get-go by saying Gwen Stacy went to France for months when she never went there anytime during Stan Lee's or Gerry Conway's run. Then when it was learned what the original idea for Sins Pastwas that Peter was supposed to be the father to and not Norman Osborn, it just proved that there really was no thought with regards to continuity at all.

Sean Whitmore

07-13-2006, 05:57 PM

How about this one: that Sins Past was going to fit perfectly into Spider-Man's continuity

Because fanboys can't be flexible enough to allow a retcon in, Marvel lied?

SEAN

Michael P

07-13-2006, 06:15 PM

HJMS blew that from the get-go by saying Gwen Stacy went to France for months when she never went there anytime during Stan Lee's or Gerry Conway's run.
That you know of. She said she was in London during ASM 94-98, but it's entirely possible that that was a red herring.

stillanerd

07-13-2006, 10:29 PM

Because fanboys can't be flexible enough to allow a retcon in, Marvel lied?

If it's damaging to the characters, sure.

But really, the hype surrounding it was that Sins Past would fit perfectly within continuity, and when it became clear that Gwen's secret was that she was pregnant and gave birth to twins, many were trying to not only figure out who the father was but also when this event took place. Well, the father was revealed to be Norman Osborn, but we never really got a satisfactory answer as to when Gwen had the time to have twins, let alone have sex with him. First, JMS and Marvel claimed it happened sometime between ASM #116 and #121 because three of those issues were a reprint/remake of Spectacular Spider-Man magazine #1, even though ASM #116-#118 made references to current story arcs and that #119-#120 (Spidey's battle with the Hulk in Canada) took place within a weeks time. Then fellow poster Madgoblin came up with a theory that said that Gwen and Norman could've had sex sometime between ASM #61 and ASM #62 and that she gave birth to the twins in London (even though JMS's story said France) sometime between ASM #94-ASM #98. Marvel adopted that theory and made it officially the backstory behind Sins Past even though it's likely that ASM #94-ASM #98 didn't actually move in "real time." Then, we found out that JMS' original idea was that PETER was supposed to be the father of Gwen's kids, not Norman Osborn, which pretty much means that the idea that Norman Osborn and Gwen and sex which resulted in the birth of two mutant twins really didn't fit into continuity but just happened to luck out, even if the new backstory isn't really perfect either. So, yeah, I'd consider it a misleading on Marvel's part.

That you know of. She said she was in London during ASM 94-98, but it's entirely possible that that was a red herring.

I'm pretty sure there is mention of the fact that Gwen is in London and even shows her there. ASM #97 comes to mind. Nice effort though. :)

Majinlex

07-14-2006, 04:54 AM

If it's damaging to the characters, sure.

But really, the hype surrounding it was that Sins Past would fit perfectly within continuity, and when it became clear that Gwen's secret was that she was pregnant and gave birth to twins, many were trying to not only figure out who the father was but also when this event took place. Well, the father was revealed to be Norman Osborn, but we never really got a satisfactory answer as to when Gwen had the time to have twins, let alone have sex with him. First, JMS and Marvel claimed it happened sometime between ASM #116 and #121 because three of those issues were a reprint/remake of Spectacular Spider-Man magazine #1, even though ASM #116-#118 made references to current story arcs and that #119-#120 (Spidey's battle with the Hulk in Canada) took place within a weeks time. Then fellow poster Madgoblin came up with a theory that said that Gwen and Norman could've had sex sometime between ASM #61 and ASM #62 and that she gave birth to the twins in London (even though JMS's story said France) sometime between ASM #94-ASM #98. Marvel adopted that theory and made it officially the backstory behind Sins Past even though it's likely that ASM #94-ASM #98 didn't actually move in "real time." Then, we found out that JMS' original idea was that PETER was supposed to be the father of Gwen's kids, not Norman Osborn, which pretty much means that the idea that Norman Osborn and Gwen and sex which resulted in the birth of two mutant twins really didn't fit into continuity but just happened to luck out, even if the new backstory isn't really perfect either. So, yeah, I'd consider it a misleading on Marvel's part.

I'm pretty sure there is mention of the fact that Gwen is in London and even shows her there. ASM #97 comes to mind. Nice effort though. :)
Why did you only spoiler the title of the story and not the actual stuff that needs to be spoiled? Is it supposed to be ironic or something?

Michael P

07-14-2006, 05:32 AM

I'm pretty sure there is mention of the fact that Gwen is in London and even shows her there. ASM #97 comes to mind. Nice effort though. :)
It's called the English Channel, Chumley. You can cross the distance in a matter of hours.

streator

07-14-2006, 08:47 AM

Now you're the one lying. Icon is their line for creator owned stuff. Always has been. Are you thinking of Epic? Cuz like one or two did, before the thing imploded.
i was thinking of epic, my mistake. the most recent attempt.

Subotai

07-14-2006, 09:03 AM

[QUOTE=dingo]To be fair, House of M did change the MU an awful lot. Most of the meta-humans in the MU lost their powers. What more could you want in terms of changing the "universe". Note that this is the universe, not our favorite part of it./QUOTE]

Most of the meta-humans, yet surprisingly few of the important ones.;)

Nightcrawler

07-14-2006, 09:07 AM

There is such a thing as symbolism, you know. On those covers, I mean.

algertman

07-14-2006, 09:49 AM

There is such a thing as symbolism, you know. On those covers, I mean.

Nothing shows symbolism like showing a bunch of charecters on a cover when they are not even in the book :rolleyes:

StoneGold

07-14-2006, 11:42 AM

Anyone want to whine about the blacked out names in Civil War? Come on, I dares ya.

drwho

07-14-2006, 11:55 AM

Here is one. Marvel stated they wanted to have a successful Blade series,but they put Howard Chaykin on it and from previews it looks like something out of an ugly GiJoe book.:D I doubt how succesful that will be.

StoneGold

07-14-2006, 12:11 PM

stillanerd

07-14-2006, 03:58 PM

Why did you only spoiler the title of the story and not the actual stuff that needs to be spoiled? Is it supposed to be ironic or something?

Given the infamy of the story, the overwhelming negative reaction by readers who felt assulted by it, and the fact it has "Sins" it the title, I've decided it that, like the "unmentionable sin," it should be the "unmentionable story."

It's called the English Channel, Chumley. You can cross the distance in a matter of hours.

Well, I certainly can't argue with that geographical wisdom. Bravo. ;) I guess I could say that, reading ASM #94-ASM #98 that while the actual comics came out within a four month period, if one sits down and actually reads those issues back-to-back, the impression is that they didn't take place within a five month period of time--more like two weeks at best. Unless of course you can say considerable time passed between #94 and #96, seeing how ASM #96-ASM #98 was a single story arc (the codeless "drug" issues). However, this is moot point because, upon close reading of ASM #509 which is the first part of the story, Gwen's letter states:

I know you were kind of surprised when I took off for Europe so suddenly four months ago, but I needed some time to think things over. I know, you're probably thinking, what things? Something's happened, Peter. Something I didn't expect. Something I didn't plan for. Something...

God, Peter. I don't know what to do, how to tell you this. I'm so afraid that when I tell you, you'll hate me, never want to see me again. I've written this letter six times, but I never seem to find the right words. I tried to call you, but your aunt says you're in Canada for the next few weeks on a story for the Bugle and she doesn't have a number for you.

So I'm sending this to you in care of your aunt so you will be sure to get it when you come home, because if I know you, you'll go there first thing. You've always been so good to her, and to me.

Problem with this is:

A. The story where Peter was in Canada during #ASM 119-ASM #120 took place within a single day, not weeks.
B. Peter DID get in touch with Gwen in ASM #120 and she was in NEW YORK not Europe when he reached her. In fact, this was how he learned about Harry's overdose on drugs.
C. Aunt May wasn't even living in Forest Hills at this time (she was in Doc Ock's mansion) and Peter was not living with her.

Prior to Madgoblin's theory, the implication was that Gwen had her fling with Norman after her father died sometime between ASM #90 and ASM #91, and that she gave birth to the twins in Europe sometime between ASM #116 and ASM #121 because JMS discounted ASM #116-ASM#118 because it was a retread of an earlier story, and this is evident when reading ASM #512. It was only after careful Spider-Man continuity hounds pointed out the numerous holes in this timeline and Madgoblin came up with his own theory that Marvel and JMS said, "Yup, Gwen and Norman had sex between ASM #61-62 and was gone for four months during ASM #94-#96" even though that's not the implication in Part 1.