Avengers League Playoffs: Sean Whitmore v. Jared_Humpherys

[Jessica Drew]

Welcome to the next playoff match of the Avengers League! If you haven't been following the league, it is a large scale series of battles where posters draft teams and pit their teams against that of other posters, and you vote to decide who wins. When voting, please consider the strategies the players have written, rather than just the team's roster.

Each match is taking place on an empty battlefield, 100 yards away, and each character (with few exceptions) depicted is in his/her most frequent incarnation (therefore, no Iron Spidey or Extremis Iron Man), and the characters have to act in character (meaning that the heroes cannot kill if they aren't normally wont to do so).

If you have any questions about the strategies, please feel free to post these questions here, and the players will answer. The match will last twenty-four hours. After that time period, the player with the largest number of votes wins.

!!! - For your vote to count, you must have a post count of no lower than fifty.

Sean Whitmore's team: Thor, Adam Warlock, Wiccan, Tommy Shepherd, Moonstone, Rick Jones, Kurt Busiek

Jared_Humphery's team: Dr. Strange, Kang, Absorbing Man, Yellow Claw, Triathlon, Hellcat, Coal Tiger

[Jessica Drew]

Sean Whitmore's strategy:

FIRST ROUND – Everybody’s first moves – Scatter forces; Engage Strange

Thor and Wiccan
As soon as the match begins, Thor begins to whirl Mjolnir with all his might, sending a veritable hurricane the way of the other team. None of them are advancing an inch past these gale-force winds, or doing much of anything else, except possibly Strange’s astral form. Thor has shown enough mental resistance in the past to fight off any attacks from Yellow Claw and Hellcat. Initial long-range attacks (like from Kang) are absorbed into the spinning uru mallet.

If neither Kang nor Strange didn’t already have a shield up, their team is going to fly all over the place for a few seconds until they can get one up. Of course, even safe behind a shield, none of their team is advancing anyway, and the amount of noise and pressure from the winds are going to make any further mental assault considerably less than 100%. If Strange is the one to put a shield up, Warlock attacks him (see below). If Kang puts his shield up, he is undone by Wiccan, who all this time has been repeating a mantra that causes all of Kang’s electrical systems to crash. Wiccan has already destroyed Kang’s shield in the past, and with the experience he’s gained since then, taking out Kang’s systems completely should be very doable.

Adam Warlock
Adam Warlock immediately heads for Doctor Strange (He flies through wormholes…wind means crap to him). He attacks the moment the good doctor escapes Thor’s winds, whether it be by teleporting, creating a shield, or releasing his astral form.

If Strange releases his astral form, Warlock immediately senses it and attacks. He has been able to both sense and affect Strange’s astral form before, sans gem. If Strange puts up a shield or teleports to my side of the field, Warlock forcibly yanks Strange’s astral from out of his body, another feat he’s done in the past. One way or another, this is becoming a spiritual battle between Warlock and Strange, and what Warlock lacks in magical power he makes up for with experience in spiritual battle. Cytorrak Bands are easily dodged, hypnotism is useless against him, likewise Winds of Watoomb, and bolts of bedevilment are blocked by his Karma Staff. While this is going on, no man on the ground is left protected by a Strange shield.

Moonstone and Speed
Moonstone and Speed are on guard for anyone teleporting behind them. It’s doubtful Strange could cast a teleportation spell before being hit by the winds, but Kang’s armor responds at the speed of thought, so he might be able to. If anyone besides Kang, Strange, or Creel teleports over, they are instantly taken out at super speed or with laser bolts, as my guys are prepared for exactly this. Everyone on Jared’s team (besides the aforementioned three) have human durability and will be caught by surprise, so they are going down.

If Strange teleports over, Warlock is already on to him, yanking out his astral form. This leaves Strange’s physical form defenseless to attack, and if so, he is taken out right then and there. If Kang teleports over, he’ll still be affected by Wiccan’s spell no matter where he is. And without his armor, he’s vulnerable to Moonstone or Speed. If Absorbing Man teleports over, Moonstone phases so she can’t be touched, and Speed begins to run around Creel as fast as he can, creating a mini twister that carries him into the air. Won’t be for long, but it doesn’t have to be. It seems impossible that Creel could have absorbed any of his partners’ powers before their (what would have to have been an) instantaneous teleport, but JUST in case he had, any fighting skills from Triathlon would be useless at the moment, as would anti-metal, and he wouldn’t be able to concentrate with mental powers (stolen from Claw, Cat or Agamotto) while being flung in the air.

If anyone has a huge problem with Speed being able to do this, then Moonstone grabs him by the back of his belt, keeping everything but her hand intangible, and lifts him into the air.

IF nobody ends up teleporting over, or if Speed alone can handle whoever does, Moonstone spends the time firing power blasts at the other team, knocking out whoever she can.

SECOND ROUND – Conquer the others; Keep Strange busy!

Wiccan
Immediately after crashing Kang’s armor, his next attack is on Absorbing Man, no matter where he is (either on his own side or being stalled by Tommy/Moondragon). He can’t afford to let Creel get anywhere near anyone else, especially Thor. Avoiding a direct attack, Wiccan commands that Creel rise uncontrollably into the air, and not to stop until about 5-10 thousand feet or so, and stay there.

Thor and Speed
Thor halts the winds and immediately calls down lightning to rain on the other team. Thor is able to control the lightning with impeccable aim and against multiple opponents. He aims for Yellow Claw and Triathlon, the two most dangerous to deal with at close range. Repeats as necessary. Speed races over to the other team as soon as Thor’s winds cease, and attacks whoever isn’t currently being fried by Thor’s lightning. Between the two of them, Triathlon, Hellcat, Coal Tiger, Yellow Claw, and a Kang with dead armor fall hard, if not quickly.

Adam Warlock and Moonstone
If Strange’s physical form hasn’t been knocked unconscious already, he and Warlock continue their battle. If Strange is still in astral form, Moonstone flies over to his physical body and fries it. If Strange is back in his body by now, Moonstone flies over to where he and Warlock are fighting and aids him with strafing power blasts. Moonstone is not more than an annoyance to Strange, but Warlock is MUCH more than an annoyance. And so having to split his concentration between the two of them is not good news for the sorcerer supreme.

LAST ROUND – All-out assault on the Sorcerer Supreme

Thor, Speed, and Wiccan add join the attack against Doctor Strange. Moonstone is likely already defeated. Even were I to be extremely generous and say that Warlock was out as well, Strange is still outmatched. Wiccan and Speed attack Strange from both sides with lightning and speed-explosions, while Thor attacks head-on, absorbing Strange’s attacks into Mjolnir and responding with mystical bolts of his own. Before everything is said and done, the Young Avengers may be taken out, but Thor’s relentless assault will eventually break through any and all of Strange’s defenses, and a mighty Asgardian hand will rob him of both consciousness and teeth.

If Wiccan is still conscious at the end, he remembers Creel floating somewhere at jet plane level and commands him to gently fall to earth. It’s been more than long enough at this point that Creel has passed out due to lack of air. If by some MIRACLE Creel is conscious, Thor whirlwinds his ass into the stratosphere and tries the whole thing over again until he’s out. If Wiccan is unconscious, of course, Creel falls to a bloody and smushy death.

[Jessica Drew]

Jared_Humpherys' strategy:

Start of the match: Traithlon intercepts the initial speedblitz from Tommy Shepard, as Kang raises his forcefield(intercepting any salvo from Moonstone, Wiccan, and Adam Warlock) and Doctor Strange casts a simple Silence spell on Wiccan. Since Wiccan’s spells are based on repeated vocal recitations, and since he is far less powerful than Strange, he should have no way to counter, and be reduced to only his lightning powers. Yellow Claw and Hellcat attempt a direct mental assault on Thor, whose mental resistance has been shown to be shaky at best. Though he has resisted outright mental domination, he has been easily fooled by illusions in the past, and those are Yellow Claw’s psionic speciality. Strange then teleports Absorbing Man directly on top of the distracted Thor, giving him the opportunity to snag the properties and powers of Mjolnir.

Traithlon now holds his breath and plugs his ears as Kang briefly drops the forcefield and does the following: attacks using sonics(which have been shown to affect speedsters far worse than normal folk), and well as with a nerve gas agent(and chemical attacks also tend to screw with speedsters greatly). Since Traithlon has 3x peak human endurance and won’t be moving as fast as Tommy, he should be able to resist the sonics and the gas, and finish the kid off.

With Thor distracted, Strange focuses on Adam Warlock, binding him with the Crimson Bands of Cytorak(which have been shown to hold even Namor and a non-enraged Hulk) and attacking with bolts of bedevilment, as Kang now unleashes a massive barrage of pure energy at Moonstone. As mentioned in Thunderbolts 12, 23 and others, Karla is unable to phase through pure energy. Kang’s blasts have managed to harm even Thor in the past, so Karla should be hurt pretty darn bad, and out of the fight. Meanwhile, Coal Tiger goes to pound on Rick Jones and Kurt Busiek.

Creel continues to pound on Thor, who is also dealing with the combined mental assault of Hellcat and Yellow Claw. Now that Moonstone is down, Kang uses his wrist blasters to hit Thor square in the face with the force equivalent to several tons of TNT. Thor was one knocked unconscious by a single bullet to the head(Priest’s Black Panther); these combined assaults should put him down hard.

Still possessing Mjolnir’s abilities, Creel manipulates Wiccan’s lightning into striking both Wiccan himself as well as Adam Warlock. After Wiccan is out, Creel, Hellcat, and Yellow Claw focus their attentions on Adam Warlock, who is likely either still bound by or being assaulted by Doctor Strange. As tough as he is, Adam Warlock has a history of dying or being defeated at real inopportune moments(I mean jeez, he lost to Rune of all people!), and he’s way outnumbered and overpowered. As Coal Tiger mops up the baselines(he himself being slightly superhuman thanks to the heart-shaped herb), the rest take Warlock down hard.

Contingencies:

-If Moonstone attempts to phase through Kang’s field, Kang will throw up an antimatter defense screen. As shown in Thunderbolts against Graviton, Karla still possesses mass when she phases, however slight. Phasing through antimatter will kill her deader than dead.

-If Tommy tries to use his vibrational explodey powers on Traithlon or the force-field, Kang will zap Tommy with his vibration-ray(part of Kang’s standard equipment[see Kang: Time and Time again, etc]). This’ll likely cause Tommy’s ability to backfire, killing him.

-If Thor throws his hammer at the start of the fight, Strange will simply teleport Creel in front of it.

[Sean Whitmore]

Great comprehensive strategy, Jared! And now, as holding my tongue no doubt cost me in the last battle, I'll begin the inevitable debates. :D


Doctor Strange casts a simple Silence spell on Wiccan. Since Wiccan’s spells are based on repeated vocal recitations, and since he is far less powerful than Strange, he should have no way to counter, and be reduced to only his lightning powers.


I'm not 100% Billy HAS to speak audibly to cast a spell. But even assuming he does, Warlock sucking out Strange's astral form should be jarring enough to allow Wiccan to finish his simple spell.


Yellow Claw and Hellcat attempt a direct mental assault on Thor, whose mental resistance has been shown to be shaky at best. Though he has resisted outright mental domination, he has been easily fooled by illusions in the past, and those are Yellow Claw’s psionic speciality.


Fooled by illusions or not, all Thor has to do at this point is stand and spin.


Strange then teleports Absorbing Man directly on top of the distracted Thor, giving him the opportunity to snag the properties and powers of Mjolnir.


Creel finds himself intercepted by either Moonstone or Tommy (I suppose it had to be Moonstone, if he's in the air).


With Thor distracted, Strange focuses on Adam Warlock, binding him with the Crimson Bands of Cytorak(which have been shown to hold even Namor and a non-enraged Hulk) and attacking with bolts of bedevilment,


Warlock's been shown to be quite adept at fighting mystics, so I believe he'll be able to last against Strange until the others are free. But in the end, that's the voter's decisions, and I've got a whole "Respect" thread to mine samples from. :D


SEAN

[Will.S]

Hmm, I like both strategies as they are both very strong but I think Sean had planned more contingencies and paired up the right characters such as Wiccan and Kang since Wiccan wouldn't really have a good chance against Strange whereas Warlock would be exceptionally equipped.

I also think Tri-Athlon is outmatched a bit by Speed's umm.....speed. Tri could definitely hold out much longer but eventually he'll succumb. On the other hand, Jared's use of Kang and Absorbing Man are really versatile and dangerous. Overall though, I think I'm gonna go with Sean on this one.

[da noble savage]

man i'm leaning toward's jared with that silence spell on wiccin kang's still in the match and able to get a force feild up and protect strange. but like was said I don't think tri can keep up with speed and I think tri would be affected by the sonic's and gas as well.

[Sean Whitmore]

man i'm leaning toward's jared with that silence spell on wiccin kang's still in the match and able to get a force feild up and protect strange. but like was said I don't think tri can keep up with speed and I think tri would be affected by the sonic's and gas as well.


If it's the silence spell that's getting you, keep in mind:

1) It's entirely possible that Wiccan could cast his spell first, or at least started it enough to finish it without chanting.

2) Warlock yanks Strange's astral from out of his body a mere moment later, which should be enough to shake whatever shell he left behind.

Kang's shield still goes down, it's just a matter of minutes.


SEAN

[da noble savage]

If it's the silence spell that's getting you, keep in mind:

1) It's entirely possible that Wiccan could cast his spell first, or at least started it enough to finish it without chanting.

2) Warlock yanks Strange's astral from out of his body a mere moment later, which should be enough to shake whatever shell he left behind.

Kang's shield still goes down, it's just a matter of minutes.

SEAN

I've only seen wiccan do his spell once and he needed to chant to focus and do it and it took quite awhile for the spell to hit. Now if they both start at the same time I"m betting on starnge getting his off alot quicker then wiccan which leave's kang with armor. So who is takeing his shield down if he still keep's his armor.

[Sean Whitmore]

I've only seen wiccan do his spell once and he needed to chant to focus and do it and it took quite awhile for the spell to hit. Now if they both start at the same time I"m betting on starnge getting his off alot quicker then wiccan which leave's kang with armor. So who is takeing his shield down if he still keep's his armor.


Well, I would challenge that it takes him "awhile". When he took down Kang's shield in the comics, it was only as long as it took him to say a small sentence, 2 or 3 times, really quickly.

And about that silence spell: I don't even know how long an incantation that is, or if it can pass through both Kang's shield plus Thor's winds, or even if he's ever done it before (and if so, how complicated it might be).

But again, I sumbit that the silence spell would be dispersed (or at LEAST weakened) after Warlock basically tears his astral form out of his body a mere moment later, so Wiccan could take down the shield then.


SEAN

[da noble savage]

Well, I would challenge that it takes him "awhile". When he took down Kang's shield in the comics, it was only as long as it took him to say a small sentence, 2 or 3 times, really quickly.

And about that silence spell: I don't even know how long an incantation that is, or if it can pass through both Kang's shield plus Thor's winds, or even if he's ever done it before (and if so, how complicated it might be).

But again, I sumbit that the silence spell would be dispersed (or at LEAST weakened) after Warlock basically tears his astral form out of his body a mere moment later, so Wiccan could take down the shield then.


SEAN

um does strange's spell's have to be heard by wiccian to effect him, I'm mean i'm assumeing that's why brought up the wind's. Also how is warlock getting to strange if he is behind kang's sheild's. I haven't voted yet so if u can convince me that strange's spell doesn't hit wiccian and stop his encahant on kang then i'm deffenatly voteing for u.

[Sean Whitmore]

um does strange's spell's have to be heard by wiccian to effect him, I'm mean i'm assumeing that's why brought up the wind's. Also how is warlock getting to strange if he is behind kang's sheild's. I haven't voted yet so if u can convince me that strange's spell doesn't hit wiccian and stop his encahant on kang then i'm deffenatly voteing for u.


Arghh! Looks like I missed you. You gotta give a brutha a chance to respond next time! ;)


SEAN

[da noble savage]

Arghh! Looks like I missed you. You gotta give a brutha a chance to respond next time! ;)


SEAN


I'm sorry I tried but u where takeing so long and I didn't want to miss, my chance to vote in this one like I did the other one's.

[Sean Whitmore]

Some last thoughts for potential voters before I turn in for the night. The silence spell is the only real question here, and without knowing the specifics of it, I obviously can't defend myself against it with any specifics. So I ask you to consider the following:

1. Triathalon runs out of the area before Kang's shield is raised. Might Thor's winds not send Strange and Kang sprawling before it is raised completely or at all? If so, there goes Strange's spell beating Wiccan's.

2. If Strange's spell has to be heard to be effective, it won't be over the sound of Thor's winds. A longshot, yes, but some spells do have to be heard to work.

3. If the spell is of the type that is represented by an energy beam fired by Strange at the opponent, it has to both get through Kang's field and not get blown off-course by Thor's winds. And even if it did, Mjlinor is sucking up any energy attacks that come his team's way.

4. If the silence spell recquires a tricky or lengthy incantation, Wiccan could easily spit out a hasty mantra quicker. It's not a matter of skill, just the mechanics of the individual spells.

5. And EVEN IF the silence spell gets to Wiccan, ask yourself, how many times can Billy say "I want Kang's systems to crash" before it happens? Twice? That could be enough to do it.

6. If Wiccan even spits out his mantra ONCE, can anyone be certain that isn't enough? The mantra is only a tool to help him focus...why wouldn't it work just as well if he was thinking about it real hard? He casts a locating spell in YA #7 without a mantra. He teleports Kate in #8 without a mantra. He creates an energy disc for the team to stand on in #6 without one. He repairs the Avengers statues in #12 without one. So there are examples.

7. And again, EVEN IF the spell gets to Wiccan, I submit that what happens next will negate that. Warlock yanks Strange's astral form right out of his body, suddenly and forcibly. Kang's shield is no deterrent, as Jared's submitted that Strange's astral form can pass harmlessly through it. Strange shows absolutely no defense against this in the strat, so it's definitely happening.

In case this sounds too ridiculous or farfetched to anyone, behold.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/whitmore_sean/opensoul12.jpg

Strange's physical and astral bodies look pretty stunned, yes? Flabbergasted even? Enough so that his hasty silence spell might be dispersed without him focusing on it? Or weakened to the point that Wiccan can fight through it?

If Jared has specified this was a spell that would remain in effect forever until Strang himself dispersed it, that's one thing. But he didn't, and we've seen plenty of Strange's spells disperse when he is stunned and/or otherwise occupied.

I'd say I've got some hefty reasonable doubt on my side. Unless you think ALLLLLLL of my points are dead wrong. Think long and hard. Or don't think at all and just vote for me. :D


SEAN

[Jared_Humpherys]

Very rarely has Strange been shown to have to have an incantation heard by the opponent. Secondly, the spell wouldn't be dispersed by taking Strange out of his body. Remember, the very first item Strange got from the Ancient One was a ring that lets him do anything in astral form that he can in physical form. Logically, that means a spell cast in physical form will remain even if Strange goes astral.

That means Wiccan's spell is null and void, and Kang's shield is up. And even a nuke can't penetrate that shield.

And as for Traithlon being affected by the sonics and gas:

sure he would be, as I mentioned. But as I also mentioned, he has 3x peak human endurance, whereas Tommy does not(and given the fact that Tommy is also a kid...). What'll knock Tommy out cold will only cause discomfort to Traithlon.

[Jared_Humpherys]

On the Spell of Silence:

-Used to silence rival mystic Rama Kaliph.

A picture of the spell in action:

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4222/silence8fs.jpg

With Rama Kaliph, concentration was not needed to maintain the spell's potency. Even a gathering of four other mages could not undo the spell's effects.

Additionally, according to 2 Marvel RPGs(though I doubt this matters much, I thought I'd mentioned it anyways), Strange can use this spell without a feat roll or check.(which means, by those rules, instantaneous).

What does all this mean?

Wiccan gets PWNED, basically.

[Sean Whitmore]

Thanks for the silence spell info, Jared. A few counters:

I understand that Strange can do the same things in astral form that he can in physical. But this is not a matter of Strange silencing Wiccan and then calmly slipping into astral form. This is Warlock violently yanking his ghostly image right out of him, seconds after the spell was spoken.

Plus, keep in mind we're in character. Is Strange the type to slap a "Do Not Open Until Doomsday" silent spell on a little kid, a hero? More likely it's like any of his other spells, which dissipate when Strange is unconscious/otherwise occupied.

Also, I provided a few good examples of Wiccan spellcasting without his mantra. So I've got a pretty good feeling about Kang's systems being crashed one way or the other.

As for Triathlon and the gas...who cares ;) Tommy never engages him anyway, and he'll can't get near my team against Thor's winds. He'll be zapped later on.


SEAN

[Sean Whitmore]

Thanks for the great fight, Jared! I know I had to argue against it, but the silence spell was a stroke of genius and almost cut me off at the knees. :D


SEAN