Best Core Concepts in Comics [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

Brian Cronin

07-03-2006, 02:59 PM

Gaz

07-03-2006, 03:04 PM

"Teen gets powers from radioactive bug, then fights crime because he let his dad, er... uncle die"

Paul McEnery

07-03-2006, 03:06 PM

Don't get me wrong, a slight part of this is just to knock Dan Didio for saying that the "purity" of the core concept of Captain Marvel "doesn’t hold together as well as Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman."

But the knock is only the fact that I think Captain Marvel's core concept "kid turns into super powerful being through magic" is a GREAT core concept for a character.

As is "Sole survivor of a doomed planet comes to Earth with superpowers" and "Boy whose parents were killed in front of him vows to fight crime."

I dunno about Wonder Woman so much.

What do you think are the coolest core concepts in comics?

-Brian
It was good enough for the English to steal. And good enough for Stan and Jack to steal, too. Thor's a clear first cousin. But I've got to say I like the Thor version better, because Thor's alter ego isn't a little kid. And when I was a kid, I wanted a window into what adult life was going to be like; I was in a major hurry to grow up.

Shellhead

07-03-2006, 03:13 PM

Power Girl certainly needs a better core concept than super-feminist with huge breasts.

warspite1805

07-03-2006, 03:23 PM

I like the Ironman concept, industrialist regular huam designs and build suits to give him super powers.

mrc1214

07-03-2006, 03:26 PM

Pinnacle

07-03-2006, 06:41 PM

Three concepts that I like (and can think of right off the bat) are the Hulk, the X-Men, and the Legion of Super-Heroes. I also like JMS's idea of the Rising Stars but I'm guessing this thread is more about characters with a long history.

Mike Smash!

07-03-2006, 06:52 PM

I like the Ironman concept, industrialist regular huam designs and build suits to give him super powers.

I see alot of aspects of Tony's core concept. I also see that they took something from the Tinman from "the Wizard of Oz" (the metal suit; his heart) about a heartless man learning to have a heart through the use of a tin suit.

Remember that Tony was selling weapons to enemies of the U.S. when his heart caught a piece of shrapnel and the weapon he was planning on selling became his lifeline and a means of redemption for him.

Mike Smash!

07-03-2006, 06:54 PM

I would have to say the people to didnt get their powers from something else. People like Batman, Green Arrow, Hawkeye. I think there great concepts none of them have special powers. There basically regular people. That concept has always appealed to me.

Well, Green Arrow's core concept was, IMO, a bit weak until Adams and O'Neil revamped him in the 70s. He went from being an arrow-themed Batman clone, to taking the look of Robin Hood (the hero of the little guy) and wrapping it in his personality and motivations as well.

Shellhead

07-03-2006, 06:55 PM

I see alot of aspects of Tony's core concept. I also see that they took something from the Tinman from "the Wizard of Oz" (the metal suit; his heart) about a heartless man learning to have a heart through the use of a tin suit.

Remember that Tony was selling weapons to enemies of the U.S. when his heart caught a piece of shrapnel and the weapon he was planning on selling became his lifeline and a means of redemption for him.

Good points. Iron Man was a better concept in the early days than now, with the heart problems being a much better metaphor than alcoholism.

StoneGold

07-03-2006, 06:56 PM

I see alot of aspects of Tony's core concept. I also see that they took something from the Tinman from "the Wizard of Oz" (the metal suit; his heart) about a heartless man learning to have a heart through the use of a tin suit.

Remember that Tony was selling weapons to enemies of the U.S. when his heart caught a piece of shrapnel and the weapon he was planning on selling became his lifeline and a means of redemption for him.
The problem is, like a lot of characters, that core concept wasn't really dealt with till much later in the character's existence.

Mike Smash!

07-03-2006, 06:58 PM

I think the Hulk has a terrific core concept as well. A scientist creates a monstrous weapon and in turn become a monster himself. When you look at the characters from Rick to Bruce to the Hulk himself, it's about guilt and paying the consequences of your actions, to longing for a normal life (both Banner and the Hulk want to just live their lives, but the existance of their alter egos make that impossible for either of them).

Mike Smash!

07-03-2006, 07:00 PM

The problem is, like a lot of characters, that core concept wasn't really dealt with till much later in the character's existence.

I think it was developed more, but Iron Man, like Spider-Man before him, was about a character who started out with less than admirable motives and became heroic after those actions led to tragedy.

Mike Smash!

07-03-2006, 07:03 PM

Good points. Iron Man was a better concept in the early days than now, with the heart problems being a much better metaphor than alcoholism.

I don't think that Tony's heart problems have been mentioned in a while and I don't see him plugging the chest plate into the wall anymore. Are they healed?

Shellhead

07-03-2006, 07:09 PM

I don't think that Tony's heart problems have been mentioned in a while and I don't see him plugging the chest plate into the wall anymore. Are they healed?

He got an artificial heart transplant. I think it happened in the late 70's, before the alcoholism and long before the nervous system disorder.

StoneGold

07-03-2006, 07:15 PM

I think it was developed more, but Iron Man, like Spider-Man before him, was about a character who started out with less than admirable motives and became heroic after those actions led to tragedy.
Thing is, that was never really addressed with Tony until way later in the character's existence. For a good while, he was damn near perfect.

Mike Smash!

07-03-2006, 07:18 PM

Thing is, that was never really addressed with Tony until way later in the character's existence. For a good while, he was damn near perfect.I thought that this was in his debut story?

StoneGold

07-03-2006, 07:37 PM

I thought that this was in his debut story?
Yeah, but the way he was treated, he was making weapons to defend our nation from the evil Commies. Without the irony.

OzBat!

07-03-2006, 07:40 PM

Concept? Super-speed. Pure, pure speed. It's why Flash has been right up there, just behind DC's big three for all these years.

The Mirrorball Man

07-03-2006, 07:45 PM

spoon_jenkins

07-03-2006, 07:52 PM

I like the concept of the Green Lantern Corps. Top-notch beings from around the universe all being chosen to wield the same power and patrol space. So I think the periodic attempts to eliminate/scale down the Corps are a mistake. Making Earth's GL one of kind, ironically, eliminates what makes him different from all the other superheroes.

But I think we can all agree that the best core concept of all time is NFL Superpro! :eek:

Jack

07-03-2006, 08:08 PM

He's not my favourite character, but I think the Hulk has the purest core concept in comics. It's simple and easy to understand.

You can do his origin in five seconds, really. Scientist is caught in a bomb and becomes a monster.

Pól Rua

07-03-2006, 08:41 PM

Jack Zodiac

07-03-2006, 08:59 PM

What do you think are the coolest core concepts in comics?

Characters like Tony Stark and John Henry Irons- men championing over technology. Always liked that one.

And then there's always the tragic lesson-learned heroes, who wreck their lives before gaining their powers, then using their powers to redeem themselves. Like Dr. Strange being a cocky, young surgeon who destroys his career because of a stupid mistake, then seeks redemption through spirituality (even with the less noble sub-plots later revealed about him simply looking for a cure for his condition).

Also, for every good idea Didio has, he has at least two other bad ones. For every thing he says that I like, he says something that makes him look like a stupid ass.

Sir Tim Drake

07-03-2006, 09:01 PM

My favorites are the Legion and Nexus.

gary bolt

07-03-2006, 09:02 PM

nervmeister

07-04-2006, 01:05 AM

I like the Hellboy core concept. He chooses to be good.

An infant demon is somehow snatched from his hellish dimension and dropped into ours. He is raised by humans and has human values. He is supposed to have been created to bring about the end of everything but chooses not to be the instrument of fate. It's a nature vs. nurture story.Solid Snake could relate.

But I also like the idea that with enough adrenaline, a normal man can turn into an enormous green brute.

Also the idea of a sentient star that eats planets in order to keep the universe balanced is pretty cool.

howyadoin

07-04-2006, 01:10 AM

StoneGold

07-04-2006, 01:14 AM

Truthfully, the core concept behind Captain Marvel is even simpler than boy who turns into superhero. He's the Hero That Could Be You.

Let's face it, none of us are going to be Superman, and more than likely none of us are going to be Batman. But hey, any of us can be hit with a random accident and gain superhuman powers. Really, Captain Marvel has more in common with Spider-Man than he does with Superman.

Reptisaurus!

07-04-2006, 11:27 AM

The Challengers of the Unknown are a great core concept. We shoulda died, but here we are, living on borrowed time.

Jack

07-04-2006, 11:52 AM

Or even simpler: Jekyll and Hyde.
That requires actual knowledge on the part of the audience; not so simple.

Mike Smash!

07-04-2006, 12:27 PM

Or even simpler: Jekyll and Hyde.Jekyll and Hyde meets Frankenstein's monster, but with a nuclear twist.

1WEBHEAD

07-04-2006, 12:30 PM

I like Spidey's concept of how he's an average Joe like you and I who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.(that is until JMS gave Spidey his totem/"chosen one" origin)

howyadoin

07-04-2006, 12:34 PM

That requires actual knowledge on the part of the audience; not so simple.Are people that poorly educated these days?
a nuclear twist.Sounds like a dance number from Rocky Horror.

Grazzt

07-04-2006, 01:32 PM

I remember in Danse Macabre Stephen King equates Jekyll and Hyde to the Werewolf archetype, in that its a normal person on the outside, but under select conditions they turn into something monstrous. I really think that's his core concept, really: a normal guy who sometimes turns into a monster. The reasons why he became that way and the reasons why he changes make little difference in the long run.

Corrina

07-04-2006, 01:39 PM

I dunno about Wonder Woman so much.

I think that's the problem and has been for years. What is the core concept of the character? Other than "a female version of Superman?" The creator wanted a powerful female figure for girls to relate to and that's fine but....why is this particular woman fighting crime anyway? Well, because she's the best and Steve Trevor is hot?

I thought Artemis had a better core story. "Leader of a second-class society of Amazons demands respect for herself and her tribe." You knew what she was fighting for. Diana fights for our society because.....

Well, there are answers. But with a character like this, we should ALL have the same answers and it should be something we can recite instantly, like Batman and Superman.

Mark Wallace

07-04-2006, 02:00 PM

Don't get me wrong, a slight part of this is just to knock Dan Didio for saying that the "purity" of the core concept of Captain Marvel "doesn’t hold together as well as Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman."

But the knock is only the fact that I think Captain Marvel's core concept "kid turns into super powerful being through magic" is a GREAT core concept for a character.

As is "Sole survivor of a doomed planet comes to Earth with superpowers" and "Boy whose parents were killed in front of him vows to fight crime."

I dunno about Wonder Woman so much.

What do you think are the coolest core concepts in comics?

-Brian
The Hulk, without question.

The title was Stan Lee's second super-duper title, following the FF by only a few months, but it was one of the most original ideas for a comic book that anyone has ever had -- if not The most original.

I'm just doing the WHoM on the Hulk, and it opens with the question:
"If you were a comic writer, and had to come up with an idea for a new title, would you, in a million years, come up with a character like the Hulk?"

The honest answer, from 112.7% of people (including me, and no-one has ever questioned my creativity) should be "no".

There are gozillions of variations on the likes of Supes, Bats, and Cappie A, but there is still only one Hulk.

Dan Apodaca

07-04-2006, 02:06 PM

I'm just doing the WHoM on the Hulk, and it opens with the question:
"If you were a comic writer, and had to come up with an idea for a new title, would you, in a million years, come up with a character like the Hulk?"

The honest answer, from 112.7% of people (including me, and no-one has ever questioned my creativity) should be "no".

Are you kidding me? Everyone comes up with that concept. And then they realize that it's just their brain lingering on Jekyll/Hyde.

Jack

07-04-2006, 04:25 PM

Are people that poorly educated these days?Yes, definitely. And there are also, you know, children.

JeffreyWKramer

07-04-2006, 04:30 PM

JeffreyWKramer

07-04-2006, 04:33 PM

"A dyfunctional family of four adventurers get elemental powers and use them to protect humanity and explore the unknown".

In my opinion, it's the best core concept in comics. I only wish they would "explore the unknown" a little bit more, and "protect humanity" a little bit less.

I agree, the FF has a great core concept.

I'm also fond of the core concept of another Kirby foursome, that of the Challengers of the Unknown. The whole "living on borrowed time" thing was rarely overtly utilized as much as it should have been, IMHO, but it's a great tagline that still has a lot of potential.

Mark Wallace

07-04-2006, 04:34 PM

Are you kidding me? Everyone comes up with that concept. And then they realize that it's just their brain lingering on Jekyll/Hyde.
Nope. Everyone comes up with yet more spandex-dressed, heroic, selfless, troubled, super-dupers with woman problems -- and, if they're really creative, they'll add a cape.

Name one other title which has a main character that's anything like the Hulk -- then pick any other super-duper title, and start making the long list of similar super-duper titles.

Sure, so the base is a Jeckyl & Hyde thing, but the Hulk is still, at heart, not a white-hat; he's a monster -- the type that features in other titles as a baddie/threat -- and he's had his own title for over forty years.

Pól Rua

07-04-2006, 04:41 PM

Are people that poorly educated these days?
Sounds like a dance number from Rocky Horror.

Or a Cramps song.
'Doin' the Nuclear Twist'

Dang.

Now I wanna write it.

Pól Rua

07-04-2006, 04:43 PM

I agree, the FF has a great core concept.

I'm also fond of the core concept of another Kirby foursome, that of the Challengers of the Unknown. The whole "living on borrowed time" thing was rarely overtly utilized as much as it should have been, IMHO, but it's a great tagline that still has a lot of potential.

I'm also fond of the Challs.
Just the idea of four guys with no powers, just skill, wits and determination fighting monsters and supervillains. Groovy.

Dan Apodaca

07-04-2006, 05:04 PM

Nope. Everyone comes up with yet more spandex-dressed, heroic, selfless, troubled, super-dupers with woman problems -- and, if they're really creative, they'll add a cape.

No, you're talking about what people publish. I'm talking about what people think of.

Name one other title which has a main character that's anything like the Hulk -- then pick any other super-duper title, and start making the long list of similar super-duper titles.

Sure, so the base is a Jeckyl & Hyde thing, but the Hulk is still, at heart, not a white-hat; he's a monster -- the type that features in other titles as a baddie/threat -- and he's had his own title for over forty years.

You're assuming that just because something isn't imitated as much as others, it's not being thought of. But that's wrong. It just means that it's harder to imitate that character without it being an obvious imitation.

The Hulk is definitely the best execution of that concept in superhero comics, but that doesn't mean it's the only one.

Gaz

07-04-2006, 05:16 PM

I think that's the problem and has been for years. What is the core concept of the character? Other than "a female version of Superman?" The creator wanted a powerful female figure for girls to relate to and that's fine but....why is this particular woman fighting crime anyway? Well, because she's the best and Steve Trevor is hot?

I thought Artemis had a better core story. "Leader of a second-class society of Amazons demands respect for herself and her tribe." You knew what she was fighting for. Diana fights for our society because.....

Well, there are answers. But with a character like this, we should ALL have the same answers and it should be something we can recite instantly, like Batman and Superman.
I think that's partly why her series is never as popular. Most fans know what they want Superman to be, how Batman should act. Very few people agree on Wonder Woman. I loved the whole "ambassador for peace and hope first" thing that was really well done by Perez. Other people prefer the warrior/Amazon side, letting her be the ruthless, vicious member of that DC Trinity... Guess how I feel about that?:p

Mark Wallace

07-04-2006, 05:31 PM

No, you're talking about what people publish. I'm talking about what people think of.
Not at all. What is published is what people think of, and what people think of appears to be "yet more spandex-dressed, heroic, selfless, troubled, super-dupers with woman problems -- and, if they're really creative, they'll add a cape".

You're assuming that just because something isn't imitated as much as others, it's not being thought of. But that's wrong. It just means that it's harder to imitate that character without it being an obvious imitation.
I'm afraid I don't see any logic in that argument at all. If someone thought of a character that resembled the Hulk, he would write a character that resembled the Hulk. But no-one has (The "Death of Supeyman" story doesn't count, because Doomsday was obviously intended to be a direct parallel to the Hulk -- and he wasn't given his own title).

The Hulk is definitely the best execution of that concept in superhero comics, but that doesn't mean it's the only one.
The concept is that the "hero" of the title is a near-mindless monster. It IS the only one.

Dan Apodaca

07-04-2006, 05:40 PM

Not at all. What is published is what people think of, and what people think of appears to be "yet more spandex-dressed, heroic, selfless, troubled, super-dupers with woman problems -- and, if they're really creative, they'll add a cape".

If that were true, then my comics would be sitting on the shelf, waiting for you to read them.

The concept is that the "hero" of the title is a near-mindless monster. It IS the only one.

No, the concept of the title is that the hero turns into a midless monster. It isn't the only one.

Magneto_X

07-04-2006, 05:45 PM

One of my favourite comic concepts is Moon Knight: mercanary who may or may not have been resurrected by Khonshu* to avenge the innocent plus turned into a schitzophrenic who makes Batman look sane.

* Egyptian god of the moon/death

Mark Wallace

07-04-2006, 05:50 PM

If that were true, then my comics would be sitting on the shelf, waiting for you to read them.
???

No, the concept of the title is that the hero turns into a midless monster.
It's called "The Incredible Hulk", not "The Wimpy Brucie Banner".

It isn't the only one.
Apart from "Werewolf by Night" and "Ghost Rider", I can't think of a single title -- but I'm probably forgetting some even shorter-lived "horror" mags.

Dan Apodaca

07-04-2006, 05:55 PM

I'm getting caught up in a stupid argument, forget it.

Dan Apodaca

07-04-2006, 05:56 PM

???

By your logic, since I thought of them, and I'm a person, they should be published.

Pól Rua

07-04-2006, 05:57 PM

The concept is that the "hero" of the title is a near-mindless monster. It IS the only one.

Nope.
The Heap, a 1940's precursor to Man-Thing and Swamp Thing predates it. As does Larry (The Wolfman) Talbot. We've already mentioned Dr.Henry Jekyll and his Alter-Ego, Mr Edward Hyde.
Eclipso. Der Totenkinder of Fritz Lang's film 'M' has many of the same characteristics... hell, any of your 'split personality' types.
Captain Hurricane, a humourous British WWII comic featured a titular character who would, when enraged, grow to enormous size and demonstrate near superhuman strength.
As did Popeye in EC Segar's Thimble Theatre.

The 'only' one?
Nope.

howyadoin

07-04-2006, 05:58 PM

Sure, so the base is a Jeckyl & Hyde thing, but the Hulk is still, at heart, not a white-hat; he's a monster...How does that differ from Jeckyl and Hyde?

JeffreyWKramer

07-04-2006, 06:04 PM

I was going to bring in The Heap - probably the first monster-hero of comics - but Pol beat me to the punch.

Anyhow, the Hulk is only the most popular of that sort of hero in comics. There have been plenty of others, and at least one predated the Hulk by decades.

Mark Wallace

07-04-2006, 06:38 PM

Nope.
The Heap, a 1940's precursor to Man-Thing and Swamp Thing predates it. As does Larry (The Wolfman) Talbot. We've already mentioned Dr.Henry Jekyll and his Alter-Ego, Mr Edward Hyde.
Eclipso. Der Totenkinder of Fritz Lang's film 'M' has many of the same characteristics... hell, any of your 'split personality' types.
Captain Hurricane, a humourous British WWII comic featured a titular character who would, when enraged, grow to enormous size and demonstrate near superhuman strength.
As did Popeye in EC Segar's Thimble Theatre.

The 'only' one?
Nope.
The Heap had his own (but short-lived) title, but was in no way similar to the Hulk.
The Wolfman and Jekyll & Hyde weren't comic characters.
Eclipso was anything but a mindless monster.
Captain Hurricane -- Hey, Don't you knock Herky Hurricane!! But he wasn't mindless, either, and nor was Popeye (and don't knock him, either!).

You missed out:
-- Theodore Sturgeon's "It", who wasn't a comic character.
-- Solomon Grundy, who never had his own title, and was based on It (I dare say that the Heap was, too).
-- An enemy made for Hulkie, called the Blob, who was almost certainly based on the Heap (and who predated both Swampy and the Man-thing -- neither of whom were mindless).

Of all of those mentioned, Solomon Grundy comes closest to the Hulk (a lot closer that Jekyll & Hyde, where Hyde is the evil within the man), so his "core concept" is more-or-less equivalent (something I already mention here (http://mwallace.net/history/WHoM-05-01.jpg)), but his stature is not, and it's a safe bet that Lee didn't plagiarise the character, but created the Hulk (and his "core concept") fresh.

Mark Wallace

07-04-2006, 06:42 PM

How does that differ from Jeckyl and Hyde?
The thread title is "Best Core Concepts in Comics".

As I recall it, Jekyll & Hyde weren't created for comics.

Also, Hyde was far from being a mindless brute; he was the evil at the heart of Henry Jekyll, and possibly more intelligent than Jekyll himself.

Please address any further questions to my secretary, as it is now a quarter to four in the morning, here, and I'm not bothered if she doesn't get any sleep.

Pól Rua

07-04-2006, 06:55 PM

The Heap had his own (but short-lived) title, but was in no way similar to the Hulk.
The Wolfman and Jekyll & Hyde weren't comic characters.
Eclipso was anything but a mindless monster.
Captain Hurricane -- Hey, Don't you knock Herky Hurricane!! But he wasn't mindless, either, and nor was Popeye (and don't knock him, either!).

You missed out:
-- Theodore Sturgeon's "It", who wasn't a comic character.
-- Solomon Grundy, who never had his own title, and was based on It (I dare say that the Heap was, too).
-- An enemy made for Hulkie, called the Blob, who was almost certainly based on the Heap (and who predated both Swampy and the Man-thing -- neither of whom were mindless).

Of all of those mentioned, Solomon Grundy comes closest to the Hulk (a lot closer that Jekyll & Hyde, where Hyde is the evil within the man), so his "core concept" is more-or-less equivalent (something I already mention here (http://mwallace.net/history/WHoM-05-01.jpg)), but his stature is not, and it's a safe bet that Lee didn't plagiarise the character, but created the Hulk (and his "core concept") fresh.

Okay, if we're gonna keep going, we're gonna hafta define the Hulk's 'Core Concept', because basically, the way you're nitpicking here, it's like you're not going to be satisfied with a comics predecessor of the Hulk unless he's a green, gamma irradiated monster who turns into a scientific nebbish named Bruce.
Core Concept is just that. The Concept at the Core of the character.
If you contend that the core concept is that The Hulk is a repressed nebbish, whose inner rage is manifested as a angry monster, then he shares a concept with Jekyll and Hyde, and The Wolfman. As does Eclipso. Hell, you could probably even put Norman Bates in this one.
If you content that the core concept is that The Hulk is an angry, near-mindless force of nature who is nonetheless a hero of sorts, then he shares a concept with The Heap, and Sturgeon's It.
If your contention is that the Hulk is about a normal guy who gains seemingly superhuman strength at times of stress, becoming a veritable powerhouse, then Hercules Hurricane and Popeye share the same elements.

Using archetypes is not plaguarism.
Superman shares a core concept (man with superhuman strength who performs mighty deeds) with Hugo Danner, Samson and Herakles among others.

Tom

07-04-2006, 08:45 PM

I dunno about Wonder Woman so much.

Daughter of the Queen of the Amazons? Sculpted from clay and given life and power by the gods in order to save the world? A magic princess from a magic island?

You, sir, are a philistine.

Mark Wallace

07-04-2006, 09:30 PM

Okay, if we're gonna keep going, we're gonna hafta define the Hulk's 'Core Concept', because basically, the way you're nitpicking here, it's like you're not going to be satisfied with a comics predecessor of the Hulk unless he's a green, gamma irradiated monster who turns into a scientific nebbish named Bruce.
Core Concept is just that. The Concept at the Core of the character.
If you contend that the core concept is that The Hulk is a repressed nebbish, whose inner rage is manifested as a angry monster, then he shares a concept with Jekyll and Hyde, and The Wolfman. As does Eclipso. Hell, you could probably even put Norman Bates in this one.
If you content that the core concept is that The Hulk is an angry, near-mindless force of nature who is nonetheless a hero of sorts, then he shares a concept with The Heap, and Sturgeon's It.
If your contention is that the Hulk is about a normal guy who gains seemingly superhuman strength at times of stress, becoming a veritable powerhouse, then Hercules Hurricane and Popeye share the same elements.
You seem to be trying to tell entire stories/histories with the core concepts. Core concepts are, by definition, extremely simple.

Using archetypes is not plaguarism.
Superman shares a core concept (man with superhuman strength who performs mighty deeds) with Hugo Danner, Samson and Herakles among others.
And there, you're creating a rule (not a core concept) that covers just about every super-duper.

Try:
Superman is an alien with super-human powers.
Cappie Marvel gained his powers from a benevolent higher power.
Batman is a highly-trained athlete.
The Flash is a speedster.
GA has a specific skill.
Cyclops is a mutant.
GL receives power from an artefact from another civilisation.
Thor is a god.
Spidey has the powers of another creature.
Iron Man uses technology.
The FF are a CotU upgrade.

Those cover most super-dupers (just delete the names and insert other names).

But then you have:

The Hulk is a near-mindless monster.

You cannot delete "The Hulk", in that sentence, and replace it with any other "hero" with his own title -- especially not with one that has lasted 40 years.
(Let's just try to forget that the Man-Thing ever happened, shall we? I think it's for the best).

Brian Cronin

07-04-2006, 09:43 PM

Daughter of the Queen of the Amazons? Sculpted from clay and given life and power by the gods in order to save the world? A magic princess from a magic island?

You, sir, are a philistine.

Not saying it isn't a good concept, just responding to Didio's comment where he says that Captain Marvel isn't as good as Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. I think Captain Marvel is better than Wonder Woman and on par with Superman and Batman.

Do you dig Wonder Woman's core concept better than the other three?

-Brian

Mike Smash!

07-04-2006, 10:15 PM

Not saying it isn't a good concept, just responding to Didio's comment where he says that Captain Marvel isn't as good as Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. I think Captain Marvel is better than Wonder Woman and on par with Superman and Batman.

Do you dig Wonder Woman's core concept better than the other three?

-BrianI agree. Captain Marvel has one of the coolest core concepts around. What kid WOULDN'T want to be able to turn into a superpowered adult with a magic word?

Wonder Woman? I'm not sure what her core concept is anymore...

howyadoin

07-04-2006, 10:19 PM

Wonder Woman? I'm not sure what her core concept is anymore...Gay icon?

.

Mike Smash!

07-04-2006, 10:22 PM

What I've always liked about the Hulk's core concept is the tragedy of the character. Even when he saved the world or defeated the Leader, he was still stuck with the Hulk and the knowledge that it was his bomb that turned him into the monster. And Rick Jones, his sidekick, stuck by him largely out of guilt for Bruce running out on that testing field in the first place.

He's in some ways, the anti-Captain Marvel. He can't control the transformations and he changes from a regular adult into a superhuman child.

howyadoin

07-04-2006, 10:34 PM

And Rick Jones, his sidekick, stuck by him largely out of guilt for Bruce running out on that testing field in the first place.Always thought that was a particularly cool detail.

Tom

07-05-2006, 07:56 AM

Not saying it isn't a good concept, just responding to Didio's comment where he says that Captain Marvel isn't as good as Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. I think Captain Marvel is better than Wonder Woman and on par with Superman and Batman.

Do you dig Wonder Woman's core concept better than the other three?

More than the other three? No. About on the same level. The characters and concepts that I would consider the best in the genre (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, Captain Marvel, Fantastic Four, X-Men) are also about equal to each other, although I think Superman beats them all by a hair since his core concept created the superhero.

Lone Ranger

07-05-2006, 08:22 AM

Best concept ever?

How about a guy who loves peace so much that he's willing to fight for it?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/scottandkat/CBR/peacemaker-799961.jpg

Mark Wallace

07-05-2006, 09:15 AM

Wonder Woman? I'm not sure what her core concept is anymore...
Mud-creature with big boobies?

heretic

07-05-2006, 10:45 AM

... the whole concept behind Cassandra Cain.

She knew nothing but combat, isolated from human language to make her a more fearsome fighter, quite literally and experiment in creating a killing machine.

But after she saw a man go from a living, breathing, thinking creature to a lump of meat at her own hands... she fled everything she had ever known and kept running for nine years.

For most Young Heroes the development is a courageous youth gaining the tools/abilities to effectively protect the innocent. In this case it was an already near-incomparable fighter learning to become human.

Yes, I am rather ticked by EiC Dido at the moment, how could you tell?

HTG

Reptisaurus!

07-05-2006, 12:22 PM

And there, you're creating a rule (not a core concept) that covers just about every super-duper.

Try:
Superman is an alien with super-human powers.
Cappie Marvel gained his powers from a benevolent higher power.
Batman is a highly-trained athlete.
The Flash is a speedster.
GA has a specific skill.
Cyclops is a mutant.
GL receives power from an artefact from another civilisation.
Thor is a god.
Spidey has the powers of another creature.
Iron Man uses technology.
The FF are a CotU upgrade.

Those cover most super-dupers (just delete the names and insert other names).

But then you have:

The Hulk is a near-mindless monster.

Super-duper. You've used the term at least ten times in this thread.

And that's the problem I have with your logic.

You're thinking of the Hulk as a superhero concept. 'An I agree, that IF you follow that logic train, the Hulk is completely unique.

But the Hulk isn't, at least in his original incarnation, a superhero. He's a monster. When the Hulk debuted, Marvel/Atlas comics bread and butter were still romance and monster comics. The Hulk was, simply, an attempt to give one of the Marvel monsters his own ongoing series, and I'm fairly sure he wasn't the first Marvel monster to use the "ordinary schmoe turns into evil critter," premise.

Of course, the core concept of the Hulk has been better developed than any of his fellow monsters, including Jeckyl and Hyde, and it's proven more versatile as well. (Compare the original Hulk to the TV show Hulk to the "Hulk smash" Hulk to Mister Fixit to the Bruce Jones Hulk.)

Mark Wallace

07-05-2006, 12:47 PM

Super-duper. You've used the term at least ten times in this thread.
Oh, I'm just full of bad habits.

But the Hulk isn't, at least in his original incarnation, a superhero. He's a monster. When the Hulk debuted, Marvel/Atlas comics bread and butter were still romance and monster comics. The Hulk was, simply, an attempt to give one of the Marvel monsters his own ongoing series, and I'm fairly sure he wasn't the first Marvel monster to use the "ordinary schmoe turns into evil critter," premise.
Actually, I think it's the reverse of that; that Lee was somehow kicking back against the kind of story he'd had to churn out previously.

That is: The great majority of monsters in the pre-upheaval Marvel were a threat to mankind, and were almost always beaten by clever, power-free humans, who used smartarse, clicky tricks to send them away/frighten them off/make them defeat themselves.

The Hulk was the exact opposite of that: He is the monster, who beats all the clever powerless-human smartarse tricks, using virtually no brainpower at all -- just sheer, brute force.

I'm willing to bet that that was a major part of Lee's inspiration for the character.

Reptisaurus!

07-05-2006, 01:00 PM

The Hulk was the exact opposite of that: He is the monster, who beats all the clever powerless-human smartarse tricks, using virtually no brainpower at all -- just sheer, brute force.

I'm willing to bet that that was a major part of Lee's inspiration for the character.

That's true. I've never read any Atlas monster stories where the Monster gave as good as he got. Although I remember Konga, Reptisaurus, and the other Charlton monster's from about the same time period being equally effective. I guess if you're monster is your star and not a feature in an anthology book, he can't get whupped on by plucky humanity every issue.

It is a little strange there haven't been more monster-as-protaganist comics, given the Hulk's success and conceptual flexibility.

Mark Wallace

07-05-2006, 01:16 PM

That's true. I've never read any Atlas monster stories where the Monster gave as good as he got. Although I remember Konga, Reptisaurus, and the other Charlton monster's from about the same time period being equally effective. I guess if you're monster is your star and not a feature in an anthology book, he can't get whupped on by plucky humanity every issue.

It is a little strange there haven't been more monster-as-protaganist comics, given the Hulk's success and conceptual flexibility.
The creative team always loses direction, or comes up with a ***RADICAL NEW DIRECTION*** for such characters, which effectively turns them into completely different characters.

Not that that hasn't happened to Hulkie, too. I groan, every time a new "creative team" takes over, because I know it will only be a few issues until Hulkie becomes intelligent, again -- and Hulkie's being an intelligent, rational, well-intentioned character goes directly against his core concept.

If a "creative team" can't write him as a monster, they should go and write a different title.

Elegance Liberty

07-05-2006, 01:21 PM

Gay icon?

.

... For real?

Reptisaurus!

07-05-2006, 01:26 PM

Gaz

07-05-2006, 01:32 PM

... For real?
God yes. The only people who read the damn book are 14 year old boys without Playboys and gay men.:p

Mike Smash!

07-05-2006, 01:35 PM

The creative team always loses direction, or comes up with a ***RADICAL NEW DIRECTION*** for such characters, which effectively turns them into completely different characters.

Not that that hasn't happened to Hulkie, too. I groan, every time a new "creative team" takes over, because I know it will only be a few issues until Hulkie becomes intelligent, again -- and Hulkie's being an intelligent, rational, well-intentioned character goes directly against his core concept.

If a "creative team" can't write him as a monster, they should go and write a different title.But it's not against the Hulk's core concept for him to be intelligent.

In fact, change is a big part of the Hulk, so it makes total sense for any writer to change the Hulk during their run on the book. In his first six issues alone, he had about three incarnations (a semi-intelligent monster, a mindless zombie controlled by Rick Jones and a intelligent and brutish monster)

His time with the Avengers, however brief, was during one of his intelligent phases and it was the same personna he has now during Planet Hulk.

He didn't take on the classic "Hulk Smash!" personna until sometime in the late 60s and that evolution was a slow one. In many ways, Peter David's initial run on the Hulk's Gray era was closer to the character's original concept that the personna many consider the "classic" one.

And just because he's intelligent doesn't mean that he's rational or well-intentioned.

The core concept of the Hulk has little to do with the monster's intelligence, just that under the surface of this scrawny and rational scientist is a raging monster with incredible power just waiting to escape.

That concept was true for the Hulk in all of his personnas, whether it was during the intelligent eras, the Grey Hulk era, the "Merged" era where Banner had control over the Hulk during the 90s (but had to fight to keep the monster's anger at bay at times).

Mark Wallace

07-05-2006, 01:45 PM

Agreed, completely.

Actually, though, I can see a Radical New Direction for the Hulk within the first few issues. The comic started as a Cold War suspense book, but fairly quickly switched to Kirby style beat-em ups. Which is a shame; I really liked the first couple issues of Incredible Hulk from way-back-when.
Yup. It wasn't until well into the Tales to Astonish run (with Lee & Ditko) that Hulkie's character (and mental age) stabilised, and it was loooong after that when the "You won't like me when I'm angry!" change method was established (I've got as far as Hulk 102 for WHoM, and it still isn't there -- I'm actually looking forward to it turning up, because I'll be damned if I can remember when it was introduced).

Herb Trimpe seemed to be the major player in making Hulkie into what he has remained, because lots of writers (good and bad) came and went, whilst Trimpe was doing the artwork, but it usually didn't make a fat lot of difference who was at the writing desk; the title was extremely stable.

I suppose it's quite possible that if Trimpe hadn't stuck with the title for so long, Hulkie would be wearing spandex and a cape, operating out of a Hulk-cave, etc.

Mark Wallace

07-05-2006, 01:53 PM

In fact, change is a big part of the Hulk, so it makes total sense for any writer to change the Hulk during their run on the book. In his first six issues alone, he had about three incarnations (a semi-intelligent monster, a mindless zombie controlled by Rick Jones and a intelligent and brutish monster).
That kind of thing is more to do with character development than the core concept. The core is that he's an all-brawn, no-brain monster. You can add to that, as time progresses, but you have to keep it as your basic mould.

I suspect the early fluctuations also had a lot to do with the "WTF can we do with him, now we've made him?!?" syndrome.

Mike Smash!

07-05-2006, 02:03 PM

That kind of thing is more to do with character development than the core concept. The core is that he's an all-brawn, no-brain monster. You can add to that, as time progresses, but you have to keep it as your basic mould.

I suspect the early fluctuations also had a lot to do with the "WTF can we do with him, now we've made him?!?" syndrome.But the core of the Hulk isn't all brawn and no brains.

The childlike part of the Hulk began half a decade after he was initially created.

The core of the Hulk is a rational scientist who turns into a monster. Jekyll and Hyde with a nuclear angle.

Yes, the early fluctuations were the creators finding their feet with the creation, but to continue it isn't a radical change. He spent the beginning and late middle of his career going through radical changes.

Provided that it's still about a rational and brilliant man fighting back the transformation into a brutish monster, then they haven't abandoned anything of the core concept.

Michael P

07-05-2006, 02:09 PM

I'm willing to bet that that was a major part of Lee's inspiration for the character.I'm willing to bet that a major part of Lee's inspiration for the character was watching back-to-back the Universal Pictures versions of Frankenstein and Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde on the late night movie.

Dr. Hfuhruhurr

07-05-2006, 02:27 PM

StoneGold

07-05-2006, 02:46 PM

I've always liked the "Man Out of Time" concept. A guy thrust into a time not his own who either is given or takes upon himself the task of making a better future.

Thus, obiviously, Booster Gold is one of the premier concepts in comics.

(Thought I was going to say Captain America, didn't you?)
That's not really Cap's core concept though. Actually, at his core, Cap has a pretty weak concept. Really, he's pretty much "guy who fights evil." All the other stuff, the man out of time, the American King Arthur stuff, was heaped on later.

Tom

07-05-2006, 02:54 PM

I would have considered Cap's core concept to be "super soldier."

StoneGold

07-05-2006, 02:58 PM

I would have considered Cap's core concept to be "super soldier."
That's more his label than his actual concept. He's never been very soldierly. He's a superhero whose secret ID happened to be a soldier, but he was never much one for following orders.

Nate C.

07-05-2006, 03:03 PM

I would have considered Cap's core concept to be "super soldier."

no, I think, "the embodiement of America" is a better definition.

Steve Rogers was a great American before he ever got stuck with a needle, as proven by his willingness as a young man to serve his country and her ideals no matter what, and reinforced by every other loser/sociopath who ever tried on the suit or a facimile of it.

As for the topic, I think it's a great idea. When I daydream about being a comic book writer (a'la, High Fidelity), I always start with this idea in mind.

"What is the core concept of ______?" After that, it all falls into place.

Kid Omega

07-05-2006, 04:23 PM

I think the reason I love silver age GL so much is that it is a perfect amalgam of three important concepts...

1. Super-cool Chuck Yeager test pilot.
2. Magic Ring (one of the oldest super-hero concepts)
3. Galactic Boy Scouts

Mix the hero-worship of yeager with the primal archetype of the Magic Ring, and throw in the 1960's love of fraternities and Scouting, with a dash of the Space Age.

It's really genius.

(Notice how no one has been able to figure this out since 1970, and consequently, Green Lantern has sucked for thirty years. Now more than ever? Maybe....)

Brian Cronin

07-05-2006, 04:39 PM

I was watching Yeager on a recent re-run of What's My Line? (the episode was from 1964), and it's amazing how cool he is.

-Brian

Reptisaurus!

07-05-2006, 08:48 PM

That's more his label than his actual concept. He's never been very soldierly. He's a superhero whose secret ID happened to be a soldier, but he was never much one for following orders.

Depends if you define the most important aspect of being a soldier as being a cog in the military machine, OR a guy who kicks Nazi ass for the USA.

I'd absolutely call the original Captain America a soldier.

Though I really like the Engelhart/70s Kirby "living spirit of America" concept, too. And I have no problem with "Man out of time" in theory. But in practice... bitch. Bitch. Whine. Whine. Bucky. Moan. Angst. Boring.

StoneGold

07-05-2006, 08:51 PM

Depends if you define the most important aspect of being a soldier as being a cog in the military machine, OR a guy who kicks Nazi ass for the USA.

Neither is really the definition of a soldier. A soldier is part of an army, and if you read those early Captain Americas, him and Bucky were pretty much lone wolf and cub. He was neither follower nor leader. Now, you can count that as a warrior, but that's not much of a soldier.

Reptisaurus!

07-05-2006, 09:11 PM

Neither is really the definition of a soldier. A soldier is part of an army, and if you read those early Captain Americas, him and Bucky were pretty much lone wolf and cub. He was neither follower nor leader. Now, you can count that as a warrior, but that's not much of a soldier.

Ok. Can we settle on "Super guy who does the exact same thing that soldiers do re: Nazi ass but isn't technically a soldier, being seperate from the overreaching military command hierarchy?"

Reptisaurus!

07-05-2006, 10:44 PM

Mark Wallace

07-06-2006, 02:49 AM

But the core of the Hulk isn't all brawn and no brains.

The childlike part of the Hulk began half a decade after he was initially created.

The core of the Hulk is a rational scientist who turns into a monster. Jekyll and Hyde with a nuclear angle.

Yes, the early fluctuations were the creators finding their feet with the creation, but to continue it isn't a radical change. He spent the beginning and late middle of his career going through radical changes.

Provided that it's still about a rational and brilliant man fighting back the transformation into a brutish monster, then they haven't abandoned anything of the core concept.
I would think that the only reason Hulkie was made from a scientist was so that he would be able to deal with the problem (and explain it to readers, which is also why Hulkie had a sidekick -- if you've written much, you'll know exactly what I mean).

It's quite likely that it was originally intended for Rick to be the Hulk -- Guy wanders onto a nuclear test range, and gets blowed up..., but that would have left the writer with no sounding boards, to show why the mindless and largely tacit monster was doing what he was doing.

Changing it to Guy wanders onto a nuclear test range, but who is rescued by a scientist, and the scientist gets blowed up... really opens up the narrative possibilities.

The scientist fighting the transformation has always been a very secondary theme (not least because it cannot be allowed to be successful); the stories are about how a near-mindless, but super-strong, monster interacts with the world.

Mark Wallace

07-06-2006, 02:52 AM

Ok. Can we settle on "Super guy who does the exact same thing that soldiers do re: Nazi ass but isn't technically a soldier, being seperate from the overreaching military command hierarchy?"
I'd go for "super-athletic patriot", or "boring fart with a one-track mind".

Dizzy D

07-06-2006, 05:07 AM

I always loved the concepts in the original Longshot series: the man without a past, whose powers only work if he's doing the right thing. Also the mediacracy of the Mojoverse was a great idea at the time. Sadly neither of those two ideas have been used well after the initial mini-series.

And if we count manga: Trigun: the most wanted criminal on the planet is a complete pacifist.

Kid Omega

07-06-2006, 05:58 AM

I was watching Yeager on a recent re-run of What's My Line? (the episode was from 1964), and it's amazing how cool he is.

-Brian

Very much so.

It's hard to think of a modern equivalent..... everybody loved this guy.

I mean, he broke the sound barrier, back when people thought you would vaporize or something. He was the Fastest Man Alive.

A swaggering, competent, intelligent cowboy that bravely paved the way for us to go to the stars.

He was like the Davey Crockett of the Space Age.

Pinball

07-06-2006, 07:48 AM

Kid Omega

07-06-2006, 07:52 AM

If i may be so bold...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/48/Wwbolland.png/200px-Wwbolland.png
"Emissary from an all-female civilization makes her way through a male-dominated world."

...too many big words?

I think you can boil it down even further to "Amazon Warrior" or "Warrior Goddess among mortals" and still get to the crux of it.

The Mirrorball Man

07-06-2006, 07:54 AM

"Emissary from an all-female civilization makes her way through a male-dominated world."

That's not the definition of "Wonder Woman", that's the definition of "woman".

Forefinger

07-06-2006, 08:03 AM

I think Dung, from Savage Dragon is the perfect comicbook concept. I mean, he just sprays dung at people.

Mark Wallace

07-06-2006, 08:44 AM

If i may be so bold...

"Emissary from an all-female civilization makes her way through a male-dominated world."

If you add "with big boobies" in there, somewhere, it'll be just about perfect.

Reptisaurus!

07-06-2006, 01:14 PM

I think you can boil it down even further to "Amazon Warrior" or "Warrior Goddess among mortals" and still get to the crux of it.

I don't buy "Warrior." Emmisary seems closer, both to her original concept (Although "Educator" would be more precise, IMO) and current concept.

Of course, there've been interpretations of Wonder Woman that haven't been Emmisary's. But, IMO, the most effective takes on Wonder Woman start with that as the core character.

I'd go for "super-athletic patriot", or "boring fart with a one-track mind".

Cap in the Avengers? Maybe. But neither of these even remotely describes Captain America in his solo book, at least post 1960. Cap has had AT LEAST three completely different core concepts at various times. You can't pin him down.

Mark Wallace

07-06-2006, 02:26 PM

I don't buy "Warrior." Emmisary seems closer, both to her original concept (Although "Educator" would be more precise, IMO) and current concept.

Of course, there've been interpretations of Wonder Woman that haven't been Emmisary's. But, IMO, the most effective takes on Wonder Woman start with that as the core character.
Do you have a problem with big boobies?

Cap in the Avengers? Maybe. But neither of these even remotely describes Captain America in his solo book, at least post 1960. Cap has had AT LEAST three completely different core concepts at various times. You can't pin him down.
Oh, c'mon!
In, what, thirty-odd years of a solo comic, Cappie A has so rarely done anything even remotely interesting that I always look forward to the next issue with closed eyes!

At times, he's been just a standard, off-the-shelf (and therefore dull) super-duper; at others, he's been a member of Team America (F#$% YEAH!); but mostly he's just been a non-entity, whose title only sold because it has the word "America" in it.

I think I can honestly say that the only time I have actually enjoyed the Cappy A series is when De Matteis was writing it (and I really did enjoy it, back then); apart from then it's always been a typical mainstream comic -- Hit the deadlines, and to buggery with the quality!

It might be best not to hold your breath waiting for a Cappy A WHoM.

JeffreyWKramer

07-06-2006, 04:19 PM

no, I think, "the embodiement of America" is a better definition.

I'd take it a bit further - "The embodiment of the American ideal."

And yeah, I think Cap has a pretty strong concept.

JeffreyWKramer

07-06-2006, 04:20 PM

I think Dung, from Savage Dragon is the perfect comicbook concept. I mean, he just sprays dung at people.

Is his civilian identity Chuck Austen?

Pól Rua

07-06-2006, 05:12 PM

I think Dung, from Savage Dragon is the perfect comicbook concept. I mean, he just sprays dung at people.

I should sue his punk ass! :mad:

Pól Rua

07-06-2006, 05:13 PM

Do you have a problem with big boobies?

Typo does.
Damn them double-stuffed Oreos. Damn them to hooting heck even!

Reptisaurus!

07-06-2006, 08:53 PM

Oh, c'mon!
In, what, thirty-odd years of a solo comic, Cappie A has so rarely done anything even remotely interesting that I always look forward to the next issue with closed eyes!

At times, he's been just a standard, off-the-shelf (and therefore dull) super-duper; at others, he's been a member of Team America (F#$% YEAH!); but mostly he's just been a non-entity, whose title only sold because it has the word "America" in it.

I think I can honestly say that the only time I have actually enjoyed the Cappy A series is when De Matteis was writing it (and I really did enjoy it, back then); apart from then it's always been a typical mainstream comic -- Hit the deadlines, and to buggery with the quality!

It might be best not to hold your breath waiting for a Cappy A WHoM.

Honestly, I haven't enjoyed any Captain America stuff post-De Matties. (What little of it I've read.) But all the major runs before that: Stern/Byrne, Kirby, Engelhart... Had a heck-of-a-lotta depth to them. It was k the ultimate secret identity paradox: A man trying to function as a symbol and still be a man. Captain America was a great book most of the time for about 15 years, starting in the early seventies. It's not HIS fault that later writers don't know what to do with him!

I'd take it a bit further - "The embodiment of the American ideal."

And yeah, I think Cap has a pretty strong concept.

Kinda like my take on Wonder Woman. I think that when Captain America is good that's the core concept the writers are using.

But when he's not good, poor Steven ends up being generic bossy acrobat guy.

Pinball

07-06-2006, 09:21 PM

I think you can boil it down even further to "Amazon Warrior"...

"Amazon". That one word may be the biggest problem of all.

Take the word Amazon, apply it to a woman (why never a man, i wonder?) and what do you think of? If it's one woman, you think "a big strong woman." To some, that'd be scary, while to others, that'd be pretty cool.

But apply it to several women, and you get "a group of women who have no qualm about killing men." Definitely not cool.

I think we should stop calling Diana's people "Amazons", at least in the literal sense. They're Themyscerians! What's this heavily Greek-influenced group know about a river in South America, anyway?

Brian Cronin

07-06-2006, 11:26 PM

Very much so.

It's hard to think of a modern equivalent..... everybody loved this guy.

I mean, he broke the sound barrier, back when people thought you would vaporize or something. He was the Fastest Man Alive.

A swaggering, competent, intelligent cowboy that bravely paved the way for us to go to the stars.

He was like the Davey Crockett of the Space Age.

What's amazing is that that era of "real life heroes" were so inspirational, you see people basing characters on that era STILL.

Can anyone even name a current person that people would be basing comic book heroes on?

-Brian

Mike Smash!

07-06-2006, 11:32 PM

Can anyone even name a current person that people would be basing comic book heroes on?

http://www.emediawire.com/prfiles/2005/11/01/305342/lfa1.jpg

Reptisaurus!

07-07-2006, 12:36 AM

What's amazing is that that era of "real life heroes" were so inspirational, you see people basing characters on that era STILL.

Can anyone even name a current person that people would be basing comic book heroes on?

-Brian

Mister T. Duh.

.
.
.

More good core concepts:

Mister Miracle: Super Escape artist.

Granny Goodness: Anyone who runs an orphanage = evil. That's just sense.

9-Jack-9 and the Joker: Clowns and computers: Scary.

Maus: A holocaust memoir and a half heartfelt/half cynical depiction of familial ties... With freaking funny animals!

X-Force (The Good version): A superhero team where everybody dies all the time.

The League of Extrordinary Gentlemen: Note. Perfect.

Stegron the Dinosaur Man: He's not a dinosaur. He's not a man. He's a dinosaur man.

American Splendour: Normal schlub writes about his life in a medium that's always been dominated by escapist fantasy, which gives his stories all kinds of subtext they wouldn't have had if he just wrote 'em in prose.

Duplex Planet Comics: Buncha people in nursing homes tell their life story, and dude draws it.

Tales of the Beanworld: Way more brillianter than I can explain. Best comic ever.

Brian Cronin

07-07-2006, 03:48 PM

Mister T. Duh.

How could I have been so blind?!

-Brian

Nate C.

07-08-2006, 07:15 AM

I'd take it a bit further - "The embodiment of the American ideal."

And yeah, I think Cap has a pretty strong concept.

that's exactly it. the American ideal.

he doesn't answer to presidents. he answers to liberty.

Mark Wallace

07-08-2006, 10:43 AM

that's exactly it. the American ideal.

he doesn't answer to presidents. he answers to liberty.
Here. Have a barf bag. I'm done with it.

JeffreyWKramer

07-08-2006, 10:50 AM

Here. Have a barf bag. I'm done with it.

Why you would find the idea of a character dedicated to the principles of equality, freedom and liberty barf-worthy, I have no idea.

Sure, the American reality has all-too-rarely lived up to the ideal, but that doesn't make the ideal any less worthy as a concept, and that's the concept Cap is based on. For that matter, the Captain America comics have often commented quite directly on the gap between the ideals Cap embodies and the reality of the nation which claims to represent those values.