If/When alive: Jean Grey in the Avengers?

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I've thought about this for sometime, and want to hear a response. If and/or when she comes back to life, should Jean Grey join the Avengers? Clearly, X-writers have run out of ideas for her, so maybe she should leave that section of the Marvel Universe, and go more mainstream.

Sure, you can complain about her deaths and resurrections, but I believe that if she goes more mainstream (aka joining the Avengers), that and all those Dark Phoenix issues will stop. Not to mention, Jean should be the exception to the whole death thing, not the posterchild (Phoenix rises from the ashes, anyone?).

Also, it will get her out of that never-ending cycle she's been stuck in with Cyclops, making both characters better for it.

I believe Jean has way more potential than writers have shown, but she needs to escape the X-titles to show it off. The Avengers would be a great place to start her non-X-Men career.

So, who agrees, who disagrees, and why?

[The Mirrorball Man]

No, although I understand where you're coming from, I don't think that the character has a lot of potential. She's a generic good girl in "X-Men", and she would be a generic good girl in "Avengers". I don't see the point, really.

[1WEBHEAD]

Neat idea. But i wouldn't want her on the Avengers because the writer will run out of ideas eventually and use Jean/Phoenix for a second House of M event. But instead of Wanda it will be Jean/Phoenix and I dont want to risk that.

[Bobster777]

I think it would be cool. The Avengers has never really had a powerful psychic on their team. Plus, Avengers is needing some serious female representation.

[Alan2099]

Before Jean gets onto the team they need to completle seperate her from Phoenix... again.

[Bobster777]

Before Jean gets onto the team they need to completle seperate her from Phoenix... again.
Yeah, I agree with you guys there. Hopefully Warsong will show the Pheonix leaving for good (or for atleast a while).

[Messiah Complex]

Early money's definitely on her side. It's a good idea, and since Marvel is basically putting it's most seasoned, popular, and powerful characters all together for the first time, it's sort of a no brainer. I think we are going to see much more interplay between the three teams, Avengers, X-men, and Fantastic Four, which are basically the three umbrellas of Marvel. I don't think think there's much that doesn't fall under one of them at this point. Spider-Man is essentially an Avengers book now, Hulk's plot is being directly driven by plotlines in the Avengers and Fantastic Four, and obviously all mutant characters fall under the perview of X. I see all three coming under some sort of under ground Nick Fury control in the not too distant future. Making the Ultimate line possibly redundant, especially since they poached the 2 main sources of Ultimate to revamp their whole line. Anyway, Phoenix, Daisy Johnson(doesn't need a code name), Ms. Marvel, Spider-Woman, Jessica Jonesin some capacity I'll bet, maybe Storm and Invisible Woman . But Marvel definitely needs some women who stand on their own outside the franchise books. Whatever happened to Moondragon and Gamorra from Infinity Watch?

[Doom Hammer]

Eh, I don't really see Jean as the super-hero type. In the X-Men, she had more functions than that. She was also a teacher, and was generally involved in dealing with mutant threats.

In the New Avengers, she'd be a generic, almost pointless super-hero.

[KittyPryde]

I personally just hope she stays dead. But if/when she does come back I think she's better off in the x-books. While I agree it would be nice to see something different done with her, I'm not sure there's enough to her character to really accomplish much if you pull her out of the X-books. Aside from being a generic but strong mental, all she really has to work with is her X-history...

[Kid Kamikaze10]

That's another thing that might be a side effect while escaping the X-titles. If she is able to interact with new characters, new shades of her personality might be able to show, more so than having to go through the same old "I love Cyclops, but I lust for Wolverine." or all that Phoenix stuff.

Personally, I'd love to see her interact with people like Silver Surfer, or the Sentry, or Moondragon. Hell, maybe she could even date someone like Captain America!

Even better, she could maybe interact with Death. Think about it, she has been killed and revived more than any Superhero in Marvel. She keeps crossing the barrier between life and death. At some point, Death should be annoyed of this (and indirectly, Thanos. He'd probably have to hear Death rant about Jean screwing around with her job constantly), and a confrontation occurs.

See, I just made something up right there, and it didn't have to do with the X-Men.

[Bobster777]

That's another thing that might be a side effect while escaping the X-titles. If she is able to interact with new characters, new shades of her personality might be able to show, more so than having to go through the same old "I love Cyclops, but I lust for Wolverine." or all that Phoenix stuff.

Personally, I'd love to see her interact with people like Silver Surfer, or the Sentry, or Moondragon. Hell, maybe she could even date someone like Captain America!

Even better, she could maybe interact with Death. Think about it, she has been killed and revived more than any Superhero in Marvel. She keeps crossing the barrier between life and death. At some point, Death should be annoyed of this (and indirectly, Thanos. He'd probably have to hear Death rant about Jean screwing around with her job constantly), and a confrontation occurs.

See, I just made something up right there, and it didn't have to do with the X-Men.
Wow, Jean and Steve. That would certainly be an interesting relationship. Essetially, Steve and Scott are very alike. The only difference is, Steve is just a lot more confident about himself.

[Citizen V]

I would say yes,not because Jean Grey is not used well by the X-Writers.But it would be great to see Jean as a part of another team,imagine the Avengers with a psychic or the Phoenix for that matter..

[DDM]

I would say yes,not because Jean Grey is not used well by the X-Writers.But it would be great to see Jean as a part of another team,imagine the Avengers with a psychic or the Phoenix for that matter..

Jean Grey is too fundamental to the X-Men. Moondragon is a powerful telepath & telekinetic. Firebird has powerful fire abilties which could rival Phoenix's powers.

[Bobster777]

Jean Grey is too fundamental to the X-Men. Moondragon is a powerful telepath & telekinetic. Firebird has powerful fire abilties which could rival Phoenix's powers.
Wow, I never realized Firebird was that powerful. Yeah, I can see where your coming from. Whenever Jean was on the team, she seemed to hold everyone together (up until good ole Phoenix would make an appearance). Still, it would be interesting to see her on the premeire team on the planet. Also, it would be a great story to find out how the heck she would even join the team.

[Will Moffat]

I personally just hope she stays dead. But if/when she does come back I think she's better off in the x-books. While I agree it would be nice to see something different done with her, I'm not sure there's enough to her character to really accomplish much if you pull her out of the X-books. Aside from being a generic but strong mental, all she really has to work with is her X-history...

Agree. I always liked Rachel Grey better anyhow, so keep Jean dead.

[The Shadow]

Agree. I always liked Rachel Grey better anyhow, so keep Jean dead.
Same here.

Jean: Dead
Rachel: Alive (and better!)

[Micro]

No, Jean's the heart of the X-men, she should be an X-man not an Avenger. The Avengers can have Emma though.

[widdershins]

Even better, she could maybe interact with Death. Think about it, she has been killed and revived more than any Superhero in Marvel. She keeps crossing the barrier between life and death. At some point, Death should be annoyed of this (and indirectly, Thanos. He'd probably have to hear Death rant about Jean screwing around with her job constantly), and a confrontation occurs.

See, I just made something up right there, and it didn't have to do with the X-Men.

Death has interacted with Jean,Rachel and "Phoenix" various times.Classic x-men 43,X-men Forever 3 and 5,Excalibur 25 and 64,and also spoke to Rachel through Hela in the Asgardian Wars.Death sees the Phoenix as necessary to the cycle of life,whitout which death itself does not exist (because death can only happen when there is life) and recognizes Jean and Rachel as physical avatars of the phoenix (that is,literal physical incarnations,rather than hosts).
In classic x-men 43 Death itself said that Jean's place is not in Death's realm.While the D'bari people went into the tower that Death was building,which houses all the possible afterlives of every possible race,Jean as phoenix existed outside of it in the (later-to-be-named) White Hot Room and was "free to move" so to speak.
I personally would like a talented writer (Gaiman,Carey) to explore the more metaphysical aspects of the Phoenix,as well as the relationship/conflict between human and cosmic,force of life and chaosbringer,free will and destiny and so on,and in the end come up with an outside the box solution which allows for new stories to be told whitout either rehashing or negating past stories.
I do not really see her as an Avenger.Storm has more chances to end up being one in the future,at least for a while,given her marriage.

[Stephane Garrelie]

Jean in the Avengers?
Only if writen by Claremont;) :)

[anthony!]

Personally, I'd like to see her on neither and spend some time with the cosmic characters in the MU. Thats really what the Phoenix Force points her character towards.

Of all the X-Men that would make decent Avengers- its still Storm that fits the bill best.

[Shellhead]

Wow, I never realized Firebird was that powerful. Yeah, I can see where your coming from. Whenever Jean was on the team, she seemed to hold everyone together (up until good ole Phoenix would make an appearance). Still, it would be interesting to see her on the premeire team on the planet. Also, it would be a great story to find out how the heck she would even join the team.

For a couple of years after X-Men #137, there were some hints that Firebird was the new wielder of the Phoenix Force. Then Jean came back and that Firebird idea was ditched. She never showed Phoenix levels of power, but Busiek portrayed her as comparable in power to Thor, and possibly also immortal. Oddly enough, Busiek has been credited with the way Jean was brought back in Avengers #263.

[Deus ex Chris]

Of all the X-Men that would make decent Avengers- its still Storm that fits the bill best.
I completely agree.

[Kirk G]

Personally, I'd like to see her on neither and spend some time with the cosmic characters in the MU. Thats really what the Phoenix Force points her character towards.

Of all the X-Men that would make decent Avengers- its still Storm that fits the bill best.

Hense, Storm is currently on the Marvel Adventures mini-Avengers for kids team. Check it out...

[The Charlatan]

As much as it feels unatural for Jean/Phoenix to be on any team other than X-Men, I would indeed be interesred in seeing her on the Avengers. Fetl the same way about spider-Man's unmasking ("Ooo, they shouldn't have done that.. but let's see where they go with this idea...").

[Mister Mets]

If I wrote the New Avengers, Jean would be in it, because she's the most interesting X-woman, and could lead to many new plots.

The basic story would have a Jean Grey from the future come back in time to stop some bad events from happening. It could spinoff into a Phoenix regular series. I'd make it clear that this is a changed Phoenix from the one Magneto killed. I think she'd avoid the X-Men for the next few years.

It's worth noting that Morrison pretty much established a future resurrection for her.

[DDM]

As much as it feels unatural for Jean/Phoenix to be on any team other than X-Men, I would indeed be interesred in seeing her on the Avengers. Fetl the same way about spider-Man's unmasking ("Ooo, they shouldn't have done that.. but let's see where they go with this idea...").


Spider-Man unmasked! Daredevil unmasked! Brian Michael Bendis tends to repeat certain stories over again.

[Bobster777]

Spider-Man unmasked! Daredevil unmasked! Brian Michael Bendis tends to repeat certain stories over again.
Spider Man unmasked was Millar though right? Or are you talking about Peter unmasked during HOM?

[DMike]

For a couple of years after X-Men #137, there were some hints that Firebird was the new wielder of the Phoenix Force. Then Jean came back and that Firebird idea was ditched. She never showed Phoenix levels of power, but Busiek portrayed her as comparable in power to Thor, and possibly also immortal.

Yeah, from the old WCA back issues I have there were a bunch of letters speculating that Firebird was the latest Phoenix (this was before Rachel came along), especially after some throwaway line about Firebird first manifesting her powers right around the time Dark Phoenix died, thinking that the meteor that crashed to Earth was a piece of the Phoenix's energy from her suicide. It didn't help that Juanita would manifest the same kind of fiery raptors (albeit in a different shape) when she used her powers.

[Deus ex Chris]

Spider Man unmasked was Millar though right? Or are you talking about Peter unmasked during HOM?
It was Millar (and he should now that), but that doesn't stop people around here from needlessly bashing Bendis.

[DoubleShot]

I'd like to see Jean leave the X-Men. I also would not mind her joining the Avengers. We are talking about the woman who, by herself, kicked Sabertooth's ass at one point. They may have toned her down over the years but she does have plenty of character development they can do with her.

Just please please please get rid of the phoenix force and the phoenix code name. Telekinetics and telepathy is all she needs.

[DDM]

Yeah, from the old WCA back issues I have there were a bunch of letters speculating that Firebird was the latest Phoenix (this was before Rachel came along), especially after some throwaway line about Firebird first manifesting her powers right around the time Dark Phoenix died, thinking that the meteor that crashed to Earth was a piece of the Phoenix's energy from her suicide. It didn't help that Juanita would manifest the same kind of fiery raptors (albeit in a different shape) when she used her powers.

Firebird received her powers the same moment Jean Grey, Phoenix, sacrificed her life on the Moon. Juanite bathed in the cosmic energy of the meteor which gave her the powers of the mythical Firebird. Given Juanita's deep Christian beliefs, I think she would make a good member of the Avengers since her powers seem to be so god-like. Unlike Phoenix, Firebird suffers from fatigue after 45 minutes to 1 hour in battle. There's enough difference between Firebird & Phoenix to make Firebird her own separate character without it being connected to the powers of Phoenix.

[DDM]

If I wrote the New Avengers, Jean would be in it, because she's the most interesting X-woman, and could lead to many new plots.

The basic story would have a Jean Grey from the future come back in time to stop some bad events from happening. It could spinoff into a Phoenix regular series. I'd make it clear that this is a changed Phoenix from the one Magneto killed. I think she'd avoid the X-Men for the next few years.

It's worth noting that Morrison pretty much established a future resurrection for her.


Jean Grey's history is not convoluted enough. Do you want to make Jean Grey completely confusing? With your premise, I would have an "AURHHH" moment.

[DMike]

Jean's not even that much of a proper fit anyway. If an X-chick needed to be on the team it should be either Storm (she is in the kiddie books anyway), Kitty (multiple talents + genius + former freelance SHIELD agent), or Rogue (giving the team a much-needed powerboost as well as a lot of tension considering she debuted as their enemy).

[o1pickleboy]

Jean in the Avengers?
Only if writen by Claremont;) :)

I second that motion. I think Jean would return alot sooner if the Avengers pick her up. Namely Emma and Scott popular relationship has kept Jean dead. Namely when Jean returns. There is no way anybody can keep them from getting back together. Now if she returns but doesn't rejoin the X-Men. The Scott and Emma fans can get theres and Jean Fans can have a her back with new storylines.

[Cayman]

No to Jean, Yes to Thena!

Cay

[Brian M.]

No. Keep here away from Avengers. She's an X-Man. I don't need to type anymore, my avatar says enough.

[Dustin]

No. There isn't much of a point for her to come to the avangers.

[Bobster777]

Jean's not even that much of a proper fit anyway. If an X-chick needed to be on the team it should be either Storm (she is in the kiddie books anyway), Kitty (multiple talents + genius + former freelance SHIELD agent), or Rogue (giving the team a much-needed powerboost as well as a lot of tension considering she debuted as their enemy).
They could use a telepath. I think the only one they have ever had on the team was Moondragon.

[Kid Kyoto]

Maybe I missed it but where's the 'keep 'er dead' option?

[Jmacq1]

She might be an interesting addition to the Avengers, though I doubt she'd be dating Captain America when Wolverine is on the same team. ;)

Then again, in his own way I think Wolvie has more respect for Cap than for Scott. At the very least he knows Cap wouldn't drop her for a psychic affair with the latest hot blonde to wander by.

Of course, the real question is: Why would Cap be interested in -her-? ;) He tends to go for the types that aren't precisely "good girls", but rather those that tend to be a little different from him. (Sharon Carter = Secret Agent with a more cynical/pragmatic attitude than him, Bernie Rosenthal = Political firebrand/activist (at least at first), Rachel Leighton/Diamondback = Reforming Villainess). All his other relationships pretty much fizzled (or were back in WW II).

Still, I'd prefer to keep her dead, and don't the X-Men have some legal document that mandates all telepaths go to their team? (Sarcasm)

[Titan76]

Just please please please get rid of the phoenix force and the phoenix code name. Telekinetics and telepathy is all she needs.
That would be almost impossible to do since fans inside and outside of comics know that she is Phoneix both from the comic, cartoon and the movie. It seems by now that the Phoenix has become Jean's signture.

As for her joing the Avengers, if Wolverine can be on the team I don't see why she can't. Jean being on the team would make more since then Wolverine because she brings more to the table then he does both in power and character. However if it were to happen(not likely going to happen) it should only be for a short time because she does mainly belong with the X-men.

[Titan76]

I second that motion. I think Jean would return alot sooner if the Avengers pick her up.
First they would have to break her out of the X-office for that to happen. And the odds of that happenig are really, really slim.

Namely Emma and Scott popular relationship has kept Jean dead.
:confused:....Emma's and Scott's relationship is popular? Since when?

[DoubleShot]

That would be almost impossible to do since fans inside and outside of comics know that she is Phoneix both from the comic, cartoon and the movie. It seems by now that the Phoenix has become Jean's signture.

You forget that she didn't take up/retake (depending on how you look at it) the code name Phoenix until just a few years before she died. She hasn't always gone by it.

You also forget that things are only the way they are until they change. Spiderman unmasks, Wolverine remembers his past, Xavier and Magneto get depowered, ect...

Saying something is impossible or even almost impossible just makes you into one of these 'fans' that hold onto anything but change which is why we get convoluted stories that make no sense.

[Titan76]

dam double post.

[Titan76]

You forget that she didn't take up/retake (depending on how you look at it) the code name Phoenix until just a few years before she died. She hasn't always gone by it.
This would be a good point back in the 80's but over 20 years later this has no point since when people think of the Dark Phoenix Saga its Jean they think about not someone else like Rachel. You also have to look at the cartoon that was very successful for the X-men and had the Phoenix Saga in it and it was Jean who was Phoenix and then there is the movie. To much Jean as Phoenix for most people to see anyone else to take the title permanently.
You also forget that things are only the way they are until they change. Spiderman unmasks, Wolverine remembers his past, Xavier and Magneto get depowered, ect...
Yeah like these things will last. Not to mention Magneto has already gotton his powers back, Spiderman unmasking himself is to me a stuip idea and will not help the character in the long run and will be retcon later down the line however Wolverine remembering his past I think is a good idea but I just didn't like it happening in one panel. I would rather have seen it told issue by issue like how Morrison was kinda of doing it. And Xavier also won't be staying depower that long either.

When I think of change I think of changes like the Mutant Massacre, Fall of the mutants, Peter David's mark on the X-Factor characters, Morrison's run, things like that. To me those were good changes and lasted for a long time until some other editor came in and thought he could do better by adding more shock value to a story which gave us the 90's. Spider-man taking off his mask and saying "hey look it was me Peter all this time" is not a change I care for. Manily because it would be like Batman unmasking himself to the public, you know its not going to last so why do it?
Saying something is impossible or even almost impossible just makes you into one of these 'fans' that hold onto anything but change which is why we get convoluted stories that make no sense.
And like the changes we got now how made much more sense right?
Like I said I don't mind change, I didn't mind Marvel killing Colossus, I didn't mind Morrison breaking up Scott and Jean(though I hated the fact he put him with Emma, that just made little sense to me), I don't mind Bendis bringing in the Sentry(though I just don't like his stories so far), I didn't mind the end of Thor, etc etc.

What I am saying is that the public mostly knows Jean as Phoenix and it would be almost, remember almost impossible to take that away from her again without pissing off a lot of fans. You do remember Marvel try that once and did it last?

[DDM]

They could use a telepath. I think the only one they have ever had on the team was Moondragon.

Besides Moondragon, the Eternals, Sersi, Starfox, & Gilgamesh have telepathy.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Wow, I didn't think it would be so close! Well, keep on voting people!

[Bobster777]

Besides Moondragon, the Eternals, Sersi, Starfox, & Gilgamesh have telepathy.
Oh really. Hmm, but are they telepaths in the traditional sense in that they can do more that just communicating through the mind?

[daniel2099]

I thought that phenix song 2 was going to hapen in a future so unless
she slips back in time she wount be an opion


as they can have cable show up when ever she is and bodyslide her back to the 'now' with out it being out of caretor

[Will.S]

I don't think I'd ever want Jean to join the Avengers whereas Beast is a pretty good fit and Wolverine isn't that bad of an addition depending on the premise.

[Smarty Jones]

I personally feel that Jean Grey has outlived her usefulness as a character and would opt to keep her dead. From the X-Men side of the world, there are better alternatives to become Avengers material (Beast with a change back to his simian form, Storm, Cannonball).

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I personally feel that Jean Grey has outlived her usefulness as a character and would opt to keep her dead. From the X-Men side of the world, there are better alternatives to become Avengers material (Beast with a change back to his simian form, Storm, Cannonball).

She's only outlived her usefulness in the X-titles, which I have said before.

She's never really been shown outside of them. I think if she's able to escape the X-titles, better writers will be able to build upon her character, without killing her, or forcing her to go back with Scott, or date Wolverine (you know, the predictable s**t).

If she was able to show up in Annihilation, I bet more people would enjoy her. Unfortunately, she's "locked up" in the X-Verse, where as you said, she has outlived her usefulness.

[lament]

If they have to bring Jean back, I'd like her to stay away from the X-titles. As for joining the Avenger--it would depend on the writer and artist. In a Bendis/Cho book? No.

Also, I don't want too many veterans of the X-Men to become Avengers.

[Bobster777]

If they have to bring Jean back, I'd like her to stay away from the X-titles. As for joining the Avenger--it would depend on the writer and artist. In a Bendis/Cho book? No.

Also, I don't want too many veterans of the X-Men to become Avengers.
Yeah, I agree with that. Maybe Morrison again.

[TheBatGotHim]

I would love to see Jean on Avengers. Her and Steve romance could be interesting.

[CE_Rap]

So......I had written this in an X-men post a few days ago, but it was an old post and it seems like it has died weeks ago. The thread was about if Jean Grey ever came back. Since this thread is similar, i will paste my original post:

I was kicking back this idea i had with a friend of mine. I proposed to him that Jean's return should be her final union with the Phoenix. The Phoenix is the only way she could come back anyway so she would need that. The kicker is, instead of them being united as two beings in one shell, they would truly fuse. Meaning that Jean would be Jean with every once of the Phoenix's power. No more of this "Phoenix is trying to gain control," or the fear of falling into darkness. She would retain herself completely, and the Phoenix would just be her powers; no longer a sentient being that shares its powers.

Now your thinking "That's too much power," right? Of course, my friend said the same thing. The twist that i would do is that she would become a superior cosmic being; a la Thanos, Silver Surfer, Galactus, etc. Next, i would give her a book where her new mission is to restore the Phoenix fragments scattered across the many galaxies. She'd wear her white suit from End Song, and go through these adventures where she interacts with the other cosmic beings. She also meet and fight other beings from other galaxies who, like her, have united with shards and share some of the Phoenix force. Phoenix/Jean vs. Phoenix/Kree, or Phoenix/Brood Queen, so to speak.

I think it would be cool because we'd get to have a Jean who isn't just apart from X-men, she'd evolve apart from the earth. And i think it's time. She's done all she can to contain Phoenix on earth. It's realistic, but it's also getting old. This way, she would be able to use her full potential unmolested, facing off with the most powerful individuals in space. I even suggested that Thanos finds and weilds the infinity gauntlet once more, just so that i could say that one of his infinity gems is a shard of the Phoenix in condensed form or something.

That's the other pay off: we get to see what the F%^#$% Adam Warlock, Nova, the Kree and so on are doing in deep space. I used to love those adventures that dealt with those cosmic beings because their was far lass limitations as to what was possible. It made for really immeasurable battles. Of course she would have to interact with the Shi'ar, but not during the time that Xavier's team is there. I would not want her to interact with anyone from earth while she embarks on this journey. Having truly fused with the Phoenix Force, she makes it her personal responsibility to mend it, hoping that this with end its need for human sensation and so on.

Who wants to see Jean fight and team up with Silver Surfer? Who wants to see Jean take on the ENTIRE SHI'AR STAR FLEET/EMPIRE, not to murder them, but to seek justice for her family? Who wants Jean to fight and conquer Thanos, acquire the physical shard of the phoenix and gain more power? And for the big finale, who wants to see Phoenix lead the cosmic beings against Galactus at full strength?! Maybe, just for a truly ridiculously insane battle, have Galactus weild the infinity gauntlet. (Yea, i'm nuts, but if written well, you know that would be the sickest battle in Marvel history).

When all is said and done, when Jean finally conquers every shard of the Phoenix, it becomes whole. It understands the error of its ways, so to speak. It returns to its original role as symbol and giver of life across time and space. It thanks Jean, saying that it understands that what it felt for scott was selfishness and jealousy, even a little hate. Through her journey, Jean has shown Phoenix what true love and devotion is. These are the things that make a hero, and Jean is a hero. It grants her renewed life, sends her to earth, and bids her a very fond fairwell.........

AND THAT IS IT FOR THE PHOENIX!! Now, Jean's life and character can finally develop without having the Phoenix force. Her powers are already strong, and through Phoenix, she has acquired cosmic control and knowledge of her powers. No more holding back, no more whining to Scott or Xavier. She finally, finally becomes her own woman. When she returns, maybe she becomes an avenger, but only after Wolverine leaves the team. (iz ANYONE ELSE a little annoyed at how this dude has a membership in EVERY GODDAMN TEAM IN MARVEL?! What's next, Inhumans?!) She would be a great fit, especially with those powers. I even see her taking on initiative and being a leader, not just a behind teh scenes psionic character. More importantly, she is her own woman , strong-willed and bold.

So, yeah, i love Jean a lot. Her character really has a lot of potential and a lot of heart and soul. But it's true, it's very hard to define her without Scott or the Phoenix. This story would do that. Just something i've been tossing in my brain. If anyone out there is still checking out this thread, tell me your thoughts, likes or dislikes.

[o1pickleboy]

Yeah, I agree with that. Maybe Morrison again.

When did Morrison write the Avengers

[RH_Duncan]

Keep her dead. We now know the Phoenix shall rise again bla bla bla, but not Jean Grey again. Let her stay dead for ...sake!

[Laminator_X]

Wow, Jean and Steve. That would certainly be an interesting relationship. Essetially, Steve and Scott are very alike. The only difference is, Steve is just a lot more confident about himself.

Steve would never, ever, abandon his wife and kid in Alaska to hook back up with an old flame.

They do have some traits in common, but there're a lot more differences than just confidence.


As far as the overall bent of the thread, I think the X-Men generally often get to shine away from the affectations and tropes they're shackled with in the Mutant Ghetto. Maybe they wouldn't be so isolated if they weren't so, well, isolated. Why's it always gotta be a mutant-thing? Why can't they do more general super-heroics in addition to sticking up for their genetic bretheren? I think the editorial decision to keep the X-Books in their own little world for ever and ever and nobody else even gets to use the characters without special permission has created a sort of incestuous feedback loop to their stories. The relationships are all played out so there's nowhere to go but personality transplants, lost siblings, fanboy-pandering-powerups, alt timelines, and the like to the point where it's all just too cliche.

Beast in the Avengers gave us the Hank/Simon friendship, and frankly I can't think of anything to match it in the X-Books. Kitty & Illyana came close, but we all know how that ended up (or do we, I've lost track). The New Defenders was the first time that Angel and Iceman really got to shine as leading characters rather than side-players.

When/If Jean rises again I wish they would let her leave the nest for a while. She certainly doesn't need another played out love-polygon or Dark Phoenix rehash. I don't see it happening without a change in the editorial climate at Marvel though.

[Jmacq1]

Steve also probably wouldn't have hopped into bed with a clone of Sharon Carter a few months after she "died". ;)

The bottom line is that Steve is far less codependent than Scott is. Both Jean and Emma are women that push Scott to excel, they just do so in very different ways. Jean is nurturing and inspirational, Emma is questioning and confrontational.

Steve doesn't -need- anyone to push him to excel. He does that all on his own. He's Captain freakin' America! And ironically, I think that might be exactly the kind of relationship Jean might need to develop more -herself-: Someone that doesn't "need" her but simply accepts her for who she is and lets her focus on her -own- hopes, aspirations, and desires rather than acting as an "emotional crutch" or "lust object" for someone else.

Highly doubt it'd ever happen, though.

[Deus ex Chris]

You forget that she didn't take up/retake (depending on how you look at it) the code name Phoenix until just a few years before she died. She hasn't always gone by it.
Actually, Jean started going by Phoenix again in 1994, at the end of the "Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix" miniseries, and she used it up until Morrison's run. He, of course, didn't focus on that, until she manifested the Force again.

[Kirk G]

Oooooooo.... Now Jean and the Silver Surfer.... now THAT's a couple! I'd love to see them make it on his board out in space!

[Laminator_X]

Oooooooo.... Now Jean and the Silver Surfer.... now THAT's a couple! I'd love to see them make it on his board out in space!

"I'll show you my primal force of creation of you show me yours..."

[Brian R]

I really like Jean as a character, and I have thought about including her on the Avengers on many occasions. However, almost everything that makes her interesting in my opinion is somehow tied to the X-Men. Her ex-husband leads the team, her daughter is on another, and her relationship with Professor X as well.

If you take her away from that and put her on the Avengers, then what's the difference from using Justice for example? I know Vance doesn't have telepathy, but you get the point. She really doesn't have a relationship with any of the established Avengers so it would be the same as introducing a new character with that set of powers... except that you would have the X-Men guest-starring every three issues or so. ;)

[JLarson]

How about SHE JUST STAYS DEAD?

[TopGoon]

Death has interacted with Jean,Rachel and "Phoenix" various times.Classic x-men 43,X-men Forever 3 and 5,Excalibur 25 and 64,and also spoke to Rachel through Hela in the Asgardian Wars.Death sees the Phoenix as necessary to the cycle of life,whitout which death itself does not exist (because death can only happen when there is life) and recognizes Jean and Rachel as physical avatars of the phoenix (that is,literal physical incarnations,rather than hosts).
In classic x-men 43 Death itself said that Jean's place is not in Death's realm.While the D'bari people went into the tower that Death was building,which houses all the possible afterlives of every possible race,Jean as phoenix existed outside of it in the (later-to-be-named) White Hot Room and was "free to move" so to speak.
I personally would like a talented writer (Gaiman,Carey) to explore the more metaphysical aspects of the Phoenix,as well as the relationship/conflict between human and cosmic,force of life and chaosbringer,free will and destiny and so on,and in the end come up with an outside the box solution which allows for new stories to be told whitout either rehashing or negating past stories.
I do not really see her as an Avenger.Storm has more chances to end up being one in the future,at least for a while,given her marriage.

I agree with you 100%, even on the Storm part.

I would hate to see her on the Avengers. It just doesn't fit her story and character. I don't think Jean should be on the X-men anymore either, she's out grown that.

I strongly agree that exploring phoenix aspects and pretty much Jean's ascension to godhood with more talented writers would be the best. Carey and Gaiman are also excellent suggestions, as both have dealt with excellent phoenix-like characters.

[jeangreydp]

Jean could be an excellent addition to the Avengers.

Please quit griping that "if jeans joins the avengers it will turn into phoenix rehash/nothing to do for her character/etc"

Because you don't know. Some writer could include her and make you cream your nerdy highwaters over how awesome she is.

She has amazing potential and is a very multi-faceted character. She has many layers and dimensions and different interpretations of her powers a writer could play with.

New relationships would be fun, whether they be friendships or more. Jean + Steve is a really fun idea in my opinion.

So quit shooting her down because she's died twice. She's got potential and she's my favorite character! Just because you grumpus' are jumping off the "jean should stay dead" bridge like lemmings doesn't mean the rest of us agree.

[mattbib]

Personally, Jean as White Phoenix is too cerebral a character for me to realistically believe she'd work as an Avenger. Jean from back in the days of X-Factor? Definitely, but currently Storm would be a much better candidate.

Jean would be better suited to a conceptual title not grounded on Earth.

[Michael P]

Please quit griping that "if jeans joins the avengers it will turn into phoenix rehash/nothing to do for her character/etc"

Honestly, I think removing Jean from the X-milieu would be the only way to do something new for the character. As far as the X-Men are concerned, her story is over.

[mattbib]

Honestly, I think removing Jean from the X-milieu would be the only way to do something new for the character. As far as the X-Men are concerned, her story is over.Yet that's where what remains of her humanity is grounded. IMO that's too much of an extreme view of what the character should or should not be. There needs to be some flexibility on what to do with the character, but totally removing her from the X-realm doesn't necessarily make sense.

[Michael P]

Yet that's where what remains of her humanity is grounded.

Then there's her character arc: Finding her new humanity.

IMO that's too much of an extreme view of what the character should or should not be.

My only view on what the character should not be is "the living symbol of everyone's favorite story from 25 years ago."

There needs to be some flexibility on what to do with the character, but totally removing her from the X-realm doesn't necessarily make sense.Occam's Razor would disagree. If the problem is that, in the X-World, she can't move forward (and I believe it is), then the simplest solution is to remove her from the X-world.

[mattbib]

Then there's her character arc: Finding her new humanity.Why would a character with humanity need to find new humanity? A new role in the world of humanity maybe(I'm all for her NOT returning to the mansion), but breaking every tie to those she's bonded to makes little sense to me. As would her deciding, now that she's truly a cosmic being, to become a superhero and joining the Avengers. IMO it's just not a good fit.

[jeangreydp]

Why would a character with humanity need to find new humanity? A new role in the world of humanity maybe(I'm all for her NOT returning to the mansion), but breaking every tie to those she's bonded to makes little sense to me. As would her deciding, now that she's truly a cosmic being, to become a superhero and joining the Avengers. IMO it's just not a good fit.

I would not like for Jean to cut ties to X-men completely. They are still her family.

I just think it would be cool to see her trying to fit in a new team. I would expect semi frequent guest appearences of her in X-men or some of the X-men in her Avengers book.

[mattbib]

I just think it would be cool to see her trying to fit in a new team. I would expect semi frequent guest appearences of her in X-men or some of the X-men in her Avengers book.Thinking about it further, the only reason I could see Jean becoming an Avenger is so that they could more or less keep watch over her. The X-Men certainly don't have the means to stop a full-blown Phoenix. The Avengers might stand a better chance should she ever go Dark again. It would be interesting to see her try to a) fit in, as you say and b) do so knowing she's there because she can't necessarily be trusted.

[The Shadow]

the only reason I could see Jean becoming an Avenger is so that they could more or less keep watch over her. The X-Men certainly don't have the means to stop a full-blown Phoenix. The Avengers might stand a better chance should she ever go Dark again. It would be interesting to see her try to a) fit in, as you say and b) do so knowing she's there because she can't necessarily be trusted.
Sounds like Wanda's future with the Avengers!

I would just keep Jean dead. Forever.



And ever.

[Jmacq1]

Remember that Wolverine is currently an Avenger, and Beast is an ex-Avenger. Toss that in with Storm being married to another prominent ex-Avenger and it's hardly as if Jean has -no- common ground/familiar faces about to help her adjust.

But I'm of the mind that it's always fun to see characters in situations/teams that you wouldn't always think to put them. People keep saying Jean's "too grounded" in the X-Men, but others (like me) say Jean is "too hampered" by her X-Baggage, and seeing her in another setting might help her distinguish herself as a character beyond being "The X-Men's token good girl".