Marvel Hell

[maczero]

Is there a one true devil in the Marvel universe? I know demons such as Mephisto have posed as the Devil. Also I remember Punisher meeting a demon named Lucifer. Was he the true Devil?

Also, are demons such as Satannish, Lucifer, Belasco and Mephisto servants of a higher powered demon (perhaps the real Devil)?

[LordEd1976]

For what I know, there has never been an appearence by the TRUE Satan in the MU. All the demons we've seen such as Mephisto, Satanish, Chthon, Set, etc. are their own beings and do not appear to serve a higher class of evil.

Belasco is not a true demon or devil but rather a human magic user empowered by a race of beings called the Elder Gods.

The original Marvel Handbook and the Deluxe Edition has an entry covering Demons as a race that can explain things better than I can.

[DDM]

The Marvel Universe does not have a true Satan or even Hell. "Hell" is several pocket dimensions rules by various types of demons. All of the demons were born from the same source of evil in the universe at the dawn of time. At one point, Satannish & Mephisto were one being until they split into two separate demons.

Belasco is a human who gained demonic powers from his Elder Gods; one of his powers is his apparant immortality granted from these same Elder Gods. He was exiled to Limbo (not the same as Immrotus' Limbo)& corrupted it with demons. This same evil is what corrupted Illyana Rasputin when Belasco turned a portion of her soul demonic when he conjured the Bloodstones. The Bloodstones are to allow the Elder Gods a doorway back to the Earth dimension.

[maczero]

OK if there's no true Satan then who's Damien Hellstrom's pop?

[Leebenhouse]

OK if there's no true Satan then who's Damien Hellstrom's pop?
"Satan," some other demon.

[Alan2099]

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/mardukkurios.htm
Info on Marvel's Satan for ya'.

[drwho]

I think it would kind of be cool to have a 12 issue mini where all the leaders of Hell try to take over one anothers realms and at the end have one main hell guy ruling everything.

[Albert]

At the end of the Six-Fingered Hand storyline in Defenders #96 - #100, we do meet Satan... and he seems to claim to be God as well. Of course, if that's supposed to be Satan making the claim, one does have to consider the source.

[DDM]

I think it would kind of be cool to have a 12 issue mini where all the leaders of Hell try to take over one anothers realms and at the end have one main hell guy ruling everything.

Boring. It sounds like a tripe video game.

The Marvel Universe is interesting because of its diverse characters & places. No one demon can really "die." Why? Demons live off the pain & suffering of others. As long as pain, suffering, & evil exists, so will the demons. Franklin Richards destroyed Mephisto in Fantastic Four #277, yet he regerated himself because evil cannot die.

The same applies to Satannish, Dormammu, Chthon, & other demons.

[maczero]

At the end of the Six-Fingered Hand storyline in Defenders #96 - #100, we do meet Satan... and he seems to claim to be God as well. Of course, if that's supposed to be Satan making the claim, one does have to consider the source.Has he reappeared since?

Another question comes to mind regarding Hell in the Marvel universe. Some demons have dominion over human souls in their particular dimension. Is there any reason why a particular soul might go to Mephisto's version of Hell as opposed to another demon's? I understand that if a human worshipped a particular demon then that human's soul would probably belong to that demon, but that doesn't always seem to be the case.

[Albert]

Has he reappeared since?

Another question comes to mind regarding Hell in the Marvel universe. Some demons have dominion over human souls in their particular dimension. Is there any reason why a particular soul might go to Mephisto's version of Hell as opposed to another demon's? I understand that if a human worshipped a particular demon then that human's soul would probably belong to that demon, but that doesn't always seem to be the case.

Not to my knowledge, no. IIRC, there was a mind-wipe or its equivalent at the end. Alot of this is from memory, as I don't have the issues any longer. If you check out the link Alan 2099 provided, there is a link to a synopsis of the whole storyline, though it seems to skim over what some would consider to be a blasphemous conclusion.

As for your other question, I don't know of any hard and fast rules other than what would be obvious. It does remind me of a Doc Strange story, though... where Mordo had sold his soul to two different demons, so that when he died they were fighting over ownership of his soul.

[Chiasm]

The true face of evil in the Marvel Universe:

http://www.fanboyradio.com/images/bendisface.jpg

[DDM]

Not to my knowledge, no. IIRC, there was a mind-wipe or its equivalent at the end. Alot of this is from memory, as I don't have the issues any longer. If you check out the link Alan 2099 provided, there is a link to a synopsis of the whole storyline, though it seems to skim over what some would consider to be a blasphemous conclusion.

As for your other question, I don't know of any hard and fast rules other than what would be obvious. It does remind me of a Doc Strange story, though... where Mordo had sold his soul to two different demons, so that when he died they were fighting over ownership of his soul.

"The Faust Gambit," a reference to Faust, a man who sold his soul to two devils & won. Mordo believed he would equally be successful, yet Doctor Strange had to fight both Mephisto & Satannish because their egos would not allow them to not take a human soul to their respective dimensions. Satannish & Mephisto decided to allow Mordo to live when Doctor Strange almost merged the two demons back into a singular demon. I believe the "Faust Gambit" is Doctor Strange #5-9 (volume 3).

[Citizen V]

Actually...the only version of Marvel`s hell i know about is Limbo..

[riotgear]

OK if there's no true Satan then who's Damien Hellstrom's pop?

Satannish was revealed to be the one masquerading as "Lucifer" that fathered Satana and Hellstorm in the Hellcat mini that came out about 5 years ago.

[kcekada]

Yeah, but that was later retconned away (can't recall where exactly) when Daimon admitted that he lied to Patsy regarding his parentage.

By the way -- for those of you not around in the 70s -- Daimon truly was the son of the biblical Satan. Sometime in the 80s -- Marvel decided to distance themselves from that stance. Probably made things a little bit more PC with its investors and such.

Frankly, Son of Mephisto just have the same ring to it as Son of Satan. Ironically -- there is a Mephista character (daughter of Mephisto) -- so I'm not sure what that makes Satana?!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Any chance that anybody has some kind of bibliography of any of these stories.

Mephisto in particular always interested me as a character, with Blacheart, his son. They were the main villains of the early 90s Marvel UK imprint, which is where I first encountered them.

I also read a couple of issues of Hellstorm, but sadly they don't tend to put that kind of stuff out in trade...

What books, and issues did these characters have their most notable appearances and stories in?

[DDM]

Mephisto in particular always interested me as a character, with Blacheart, his son. They were the main villains of the early 90s Marvel UK imprint, which is where I first encountered them.

Buy all of the Ann Nocenti/John Romita Jr. Daredevil #270 (1st Blackheart)-Daredevil #282. Mephisto tries to break Daredevil's spirit, but fails. Blackheart says Mephisto underestimates the human soul. For punishment, Mephisto banishes Blackheart to Earth.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Buy all of the Ann Nocenti/John Romita Jr. Daredevil #270 (1st Blackheart)-Daredevil #282. Mephisto tries to break Daredevil's spirit, but fails. Blackheart says Mephisto underestimates the human soul. For punishment, Mephisto banishes Blackheart to Earth.

Cheers greatly, DDM. As bastion of usefull knowledge as always. I'll look into that.

[Economist]

IIRC, that was Belasco that the Punisher met in the Jigsaw Saga. It was stated in a letter column. At the time I didn't know who Belasco was and judging by the reaction of other letters, neither did many of the other fans.

[maczero]

IIRC, that was Belasco that the Punisher met in the Jigsaw Saga. It was stated in a letter column. At the time I didn't know who Belasco was and judging by the reaction of other letters, neither did many of the other fans.
Thanks Econ! I was about to ask that question next. Did he actually reveal himself to be Belasco during the story? I'm pretty sure he was calling himself Lucifer through most of the arc.

[Scavenger]

I think it would kind of be cool to have a 12 issue mini where all the leaders of Hell try to take over one anothers realms and at the end have one main hell guy ruling everything.


They tried it in a 4 issue series called Mephisto vs. It kind of sucked.

[StoneGold]

Thanks Econ! I was about to ask that question next. Did he actually reveal himself to be Belasco during the story? I'm pretty sure he was calling himself Lucifer through most of the arc.
I swear he was drawn like Belasco though. I seem to remember recognizing him from OHOTMU. Granted, this was over a decade ago.


And in the long run, the whole thing sucked anyways, so it doesn't really matter.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Do you guys think that Marvel could ever be persuaded to write a proper occult related series? In light of things like the recent Garth Ennis Ghost Rider series, and the new ongoing, do you think Marvel are finally starting to warm to the potential of approaching this kind of subject matter more intelligently - rather than steering clear of any direct references to satan or biblical refrerences?

[algertman]

Isn't Nightcrawler's dad satan?

Yes, I brought that up

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Isn't Nightcrawler's dad satan?

Yes, I brought that up

Don't mention The Draco! :mad: :D

[BeastieRunner]

Isn't Nightcrawler's dad satan?

His dad's name is Azazel.

[BeastieRunner]

For anyone who wants to know, the first issue of the new Ghost Rider series has spoilerSatan in it. He is also refered to as Lucifer later on. end spoiler