Captain America is a flipflopper

[Tommy]

"We're being asked to go to a foreign world and help a rebel change its form of government. This strikes me as wrong. We do not, after all, go around our own world and alter governments whose policies we disagree with." Captain America in Captain America 314

So what happened between then an now that Captain America thinks a rebellion is the best way to address the U.S. law? Or is it only wrong when the law does not apply directly to him?

[Beast]

He's not altering the government, he's just taking a stand against something he doesn't believe in. It's not an easy choice for him, you can be sure of that. While he stands as a symbol for America, he stands for the idealized idea of America and what it was founded on, not the government it's self. But it's hardly the first time he's stood against Government Policy he believed to be unfair or unlawful. He was against the Mutant Registration Act, and he even gave up being Captain America for a while over government policy.

[Tommy]

He's not altering the government, he's just taking a stand against something he doesn't believe in. It's not an easy choice for him, you can be sure of that. But it's hardly the first time he's stood against Government Policy he believed to be unfair or unlawful. He was against the Mutant Registration Act, and he even gave up being Captain America for a while over government policy.
He has a secret base where he is assembling an army in defiance of the US government (Civil War II). As seen in Fantastic Four 538 the Pro- and anti- sides are already fighting in the streets. In New Avengers 21 he actively tried to recruit Hank Pym talking about how they have to fight the act. He is not talking about doing it politically. How is that not rebelling?

[phillcalle]

There is a difference between stirring up trouble (or supporting a rebel) in another country and protesting or even rebelling against one's own, so I don't think he's a flip-flopper.

On the other hand, I favor super-types like Stormwatch, the Authority, etc...who are much more interventionist.

[Tommy]

There is a difference between stirring up trouble (or supporting a rebel) in another country and protesting or even rebelling against one's own, so I don't think he's a flip-flopper.
Well if he takes a stand that he is not going to get involved in super powering over governments, shouldn't it stand that he is not going to do it to his own?
On the other hand, I favor super-types like Stormwatch, the Authority, etc...who are much more interventionist.
Actually I like those too. However the Authority made no bones about the fact that they were going to interfere with people and interfere with EVERYBODY.

[ivesaidway2much]

What's wrong with being a flip-flopper? Cap puts his life on the line every other day fighting some evil pyschopath bent on world domination. I'd imagine eventually during his rare down time he'd start to have tons of deep and disturbing thoughts about the state of the world like in New Avengers 21. Is it bad when somebody changes their mind because they realized they were orignally wrong.

[sephirothskiller]

"Flip Flopping" is a buzzword that people use to make it seem wrong to change your mind. Some people can only think in one direction and never change their mind no matter what, but some people think "hey, circumstances have changed, and what once was true no longer is." and then they change their mind.

There isn't anything wrong with that.

[Crash-Man]

"We're being asked to go to a foreign world and help a rebel change its form of government. This strikes me as wrong. We do not, after all, go around our own world and alter governments whose policies we disagree with." Captain America in Captain America 314

So what happened between then an now that Captain America thinks a rebellion is the best way to address the U.S. law? Or is it only wrong when the law does not apply directly to him?


Cap wasn't saying that the rebellion was wrong.

He was saying that foreign intervention, in that context, seemed wrong to him.

I'm interested in what year Cap said this though. He couldn't have said it after 9/11, could he?

[Bobster777]

He's not altering the government, he's just taking a stand against something he doesn't believe in. It's not an easy choice for him, you can be sure of that. While he stands as a symbol for America, he stands for the idealized idea of America and what it was founded on, not the government it's self. But it's hardly the first time he's stood against Government Policy he believed to be unfair or unlawful. He was against the Mutant Registration Act, and he even gave up being Captain America for a while over government policy.

Yeah, Cap is more than the gov. He stands for what the spirit of America is, taking a stand against authority when it wrongly imposes its will on the people. If he was born during 1776, Steve would probably be in the history books for being one of the first Americans to stand against the British. That's just who he is. I guess that's what causes so much problems for him as well. The fact is, we live in a democracy in which the majority of the public can influence law. If the majority of Americans felt the law was necessary, he should have taken the time to figure out why instead of just fighting it.

Ha ha, sorry. To answer the question, no, I do not think he is a flip flopper. he is far from it.

[USAgent]

He's not altering the government, he's just taking a stand against something he doesn't believe in. It's not an easy choice for him, you can be sure of that. While he stands as a symbol for America, he stands for the idealized idea of America and what it was founded on, not the government it's self. But it's hardly the first time he's stood against Government Policy he believed to be unfair or unlawful. He was against the Mutant Registration Act, and he even gave up being Captain America for a while over government policy.

Yes OK, but there are ways to do things. If he was still in SHIELD when he got called up he has an obligation to do what he is told because he took the oath. He stands for the American way and America told him to do something, and he turned his back on them. He should put the SHIELD down and sit this one out.

Yeah OK he is going to fight for something he believes in but sometimes that only works in a perfect world. And by no means is the Marvel Universe a perfect world.

[StoneGold]

Cap wasn't saying that the rebellion was wrong.

He was saying that foreign intervention, in that context, seemed wrong to him.

I'm interested in what year Cap said this though. He couldn't have said it after 9/11, could he?
That would have been in the Squadron Supreme crossover. So we're talking early 80s. And since then, he's done stuff like participate in Operation: Galactic Storm, and the raid on Genosha when Magneto was running it during a crossover.

The thing about Cap is, he always has to say his moral reservations about doing something before being forced into doing it anyways. It's what gives him his air of moral superiority.

But really, this is a BS call trying to drum up a little outrage. Because, as stated, it's the difference between rebellion and foreign intervention, and the difference between standing still and having your life and the life of your loved ones directly affected, vs. going along and taking part in directly affecting your life and that of your loved ones.