Folks that should never, ever be Avengers, ever

[curefreak]

if there was anyone writing na i wouldnt mind having wolverine or spiderman on the team.
and what do you guys have against glamour?
oh and by the way damon hellstrom only assisted the wca he never officially joined the team.

[Edward J Cunningham]

but lets assume Spider-Man and Wolverine leave ( i cant see either of them being long-term members)

Spider-Man and Wolverine are the two most popular characters in the Marvel Universe. Period. Unless sales of New Avengers dip dramatically, I don't see them leaving anytime soon.


http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y165/eddiejc1/New_Fem_Four.gif (http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/femfour/)

[Brian R]

Spider-Man and Wolverine are the two most popular characters in the Marvel Universe. Period. Unless sales of New Avengers dip dramatically, I don't see them leaving anytime soon.


Understood, but my reply is always the same:

If you have a book starring Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Spider-Woman, Luke Cage and Spider-Man, do you really need Wolverine to sell the book? If the answer is yes, then the quality of the book must be extremely low. If a book that stars those characters has a good creative team, then it should sell very well, regardless of whether Logan is on the team or not. Now, would that book sell just a little more with Wolverine? Most probably, but at least the writer wouldnt have to sacrifice his artistic integrity just for a few thousand more issues sold, and we could then in turn hold this writer in much higher regard.

Why do I say this? Because in my opinion sticking Wolverine on the Avengers has no redeeming value, especially when the reasons and circumstances of his joining were suspect at best.

[Alan2099]

Here's another guy that should never be an Avenger;
Mephisto

At least, not until after he promises to stop tormenting the souls of the damned for all eternity.

[Shellhead]

Here's another guy that should never be an Avenger;
Mephisto

At least, not until after he promises to stop tormenting the souls of the damned for all eternity.

I bet Quesada would let him write New Avengers. ;)

[Alan2099]

Before or after he promises to stop tormenting the souls of the damned for all eternity?

[curefreak]

Before or after he promises to stop tormenting the souls of the damned for all eternity?
you make it sound like a bad thing:confused:

[Mariah]

Understood, but my reply is always the same:

If you have a book starring Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Spider-Woman, Luke Cage and Spider-Man, do you really need Wolverine to sell the book? If the answer is yes, then the quality of the book must be extremely low. If a book that stars those characters has a good creative team, then it should sell very well, regardless of whether Logan is on the team or not. Now, would that book sell just a little more with Wolverine? Most probably, but at least the writer wouldnt have to sacrifice his artistic integrity just for a few thousand more issues sold, and we could then in turn hold this writer in much higher regard.

Why do I say this? Because in my opinion sticking Wolverine on the Avengers has no redeeming value, especially when the reasons and circumstances of his joining were suspect at best.
It's not like he's really part of the team. He doesn't do anything when he is there. I know, I hate the idea as well, I would much prefer someone who deserved to be an avenger got his much not used spot, but sigh, that's life. Hopefully Bendis gets burned out soon.

[curefreak]

It's not like he's really part of the team. He doesn't do anything when he is there. I know, I hate the idea as well, I would much prefer someone who deserved to be an avenger got his much not used spot, but sigh, that's life. Hopefully Bendis gets burned out soon.
maybe hell keel over and have a heart attack from juggeling so many books:D

[Mariah]

maybe hell keel over and have a heart attack from juggeling so many books:D
Ahh, that's a bit extreme. Maybe he'll have a mental breakdown. No, that would be thought of as genius writing. Onward with the cardiac arrest!

[curefreak]

Ahh, that's a bit extreme. Maybe he'll have a mental breakdown. No, that would be thought of as genius writing. Onward with the cardiac arrest!
i think ive fallen in lurve:D

[Mariah]

i think ive fallen in lurve:D
That's craziness how many people tell me that on this board! lol.

[curefreak]

That's craziness how many people tell me that on this board! lol.
were all sad lonely little fanboys.

[Mariah]

were all sad lonely little fanboys.
So I'm noticing. jk. You shouldn't say that about yourself, I'm sure you are a wonderful person. Well, I think I'm a first. I'm a multi-racial fangirl who loves comics and talking about them, although, my humor seems to rub some people the wrong way.

[curefreak]

So I'm noticing. jk. You shouldn't say that about yourself, I'm sure you are a wonderful person. Well, I think I'm a first. I'm a multi-racial fangirl who loves comics and talking about them, although, my humor seems to rub some people the wrong way.
as long as you dont have a dirty mouth i dont mind.

[Mariah]

as long as you dont have a dirty mouth i dont mind.
just depends on what i'm talking about. I am from the ghetto after all.

[curefreak]

just depends on what i'm talking about. I am from the ghetto after all.
really? tell me more;)

[Mariah]

really? tell me more;)
lol, you crazy, boy.

[The Shadow]

If you have a book starring Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Spider-Woman, Luke Cage and Spider-Man, do you really need Wolverine to sell the book?
... seriously?

You think ANY of those listed other than Spidey have Wolverine's sales impact?

ESPECIALLY Cage or Spider Woman?

[The Shadow]

Hopefully Bendis gets burned out soon.
Please don't hold your breath as he said he's got a good 5 years worth of stories... and unless the sales tank he's here for a while yet.

[Whirlwind Dinamo]

Spidey isn't Avengers material? Despite all the team ups over the years and being a reserve member for decades????


Spider-Man gets written out-of-character and I was never happy with his showings in Avengers

[mikekerrIII]

The Avengers are supposed to be earths mightiest heroes. That being said I don't see why Wolverine can't be an Avenger except peoples hatred for him for showing up everywhere. Not a good enough excuse. If you compare him to other Avengers like, say, Triatholon I don't see how Wolverine is not better. And I don't care if they were forced to take Triatholon there are other Avengers you could name.

Doctor Strange would actually bring other types of threats to the Avengers book. The team hasn't had a mystical presense in a very long time and I don't think since Dr. Druid (Scarlet Witch doesn't count). I think it's long past time that everyone stops thinking of Doctor Strange ONLY being with the Defenders if he's part of a team.

Squirrel Girl I have no idea why she even is being brought up.

Some don't consider Wolverine a hero, an anti-hero at best.

[mikekerrIII]

Squirrel Girl I have no idea why she even is being brought up.

She is appropriate on any teem that claims to be the mightiest, her record is second to none:tongue:

[Haquim]

-Cash Cows: Spidey and Wolvie currently, but the likes of Deadpool would qualify too. I love spidey, I used to love Wolvie, but they are there just because they are popular and help sales, not because they are important avengers or part of the avengers mythology.

-Big Baddies: like Thanos & Doom. They are popular and I could see how certain lazy writers could be tempted to use that. They are not avengers material, even if they are great villains on their own and help sell books.

[Blade X]

SQUIRREL GIRL
As much as I like the character, she suffers from "Howard the Duck" syndrome: while I can accept on a theoretical level that she exists in the Marvel Universe along with the Cosmic Cube and Namor the Sub-Mariner, if you place a character from her surreal world side-by-side something as central to the Marvel Universe proper as the Avengers, and our brains just shut down. I can accept in her own humor book that Squirrel Girl can defeat Thanos, the Mandarin, Dr. Doom...but put her right beside Iron Man and the Black Widow and the two ideas can't coexist. Squirrel Girl belongs in the Avengers as well as Howard the Duck does.

DOCTOR STRANGE
This guy is a bad idea for Avengers membership for all sorts of reasons and I have zero idea why people keep pitching him for the team. For one thing, Doctor Strange has a lot more history with the dynamic of the Defenders, a "non-team" where a non-team player would be at home. Furthermore, the Avengers are not only a team, but also a team of superheroes. And the fact is, Doctor Strange is only a superhero by proximity to the Marvel Universe. Place him in any other context, he becomes a regular wizard or adventure character.

WOLVERINE
Yes, I know he already "is" an Avenger (bleh), but he was a bad choice then and a bad choice now. The fact of the matter is, the reason that was given for Wolverine being "begged" by Tony Stark to join the Avengers, just doesn't make any sense. They picked him because Wolverine is results-oriented. Here's the thing: there are plenty of other, more established Avengers that have history with the team that are results-oriented types with checkered, espionage centered backgrounds; there was no reason to pick Wolverine AT ALL. The Black Widow springs immediately to mind: hell, her first outing with the Avengers, didn't she threaten to kill a Ixar to release the team?

I agree. You can also add the these characters to your list.

Luke Cage
Iron Fist
Spider-Man
Echo
Sentry
Ares
Thing
Mr. Fantastic
Invisible Woman
Death Cry

[Ken Ashcroft]

There's quite a few characters that were created by the Avengers writer at the time to join up with the team but of them, I would say only the Vision and maybe Mantis could be said to be Avengers successes. Rage, Triathlon and Silverclaw were never good enough to be Avengers members.

[crossbones]

to me Wolverine and Spider-Man are not Avengers and shouldn't be on the team.

Jessica Jones really shouldn't be on there either because the character is irritating.

Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Doctor Strange and The Thing i have no problem with.

for whatever reason Spider-Man with FF doesn't bother me at all, he fits much better with that outfit.

Wolverine is already with X-Men and X-Force, it's laughable to have him in 2 Avengers teams as well.

[iamjason]

Wolverine for sure, and i am a Wolverine fan

i mean with all the shit happens in Utopia, why would he even bother to be an Avengers?
not to mention there's no way he has the time to constantly travel between Utopia and NYC

Cyclops: Where the hell are you Loagn, we are under attack!
Wolverine: F you Scott, i am fighting the Skrull or whatever

Angel: X force need your helf
Wolverine: F you Warren, i am hanging out in hell

[Til]

Somewhat off topic but....how does one even come across a thread this old? The last post was almost five years ago.

[Predabot]

Kind of funny that people were billing Squirrel Girl and Dr Strange as peeps that should never be an Avenger at the time, seeing as now, they've ALL become Avengers! XD

In a way I suppose Squirrel Girl already WAS an Avenger at the time, since I think the only reason the OP knew who she was is from her appearance in the Great Lakes Avengers comic that came out at the time. Soon afterwards, she joined the Initiative and then she 'sorta' became an Avenger among thousands of other characters that no-one would have billed an Avenger.

Jeez... Now that I think about it, the Initiative was pretty much THE series that proved that this thread is more or less full of strange misconceptions.

As for who I think should never be an Avenger?

The villains. Carnage, Thanos, Dr Doom, Bullseye, etc. Except if they're only fake-Vengers, posing as heroes because they want to achieve some dastardly goal.

Dark Avengers was some real good fun, in that regard. =)

[GCA-FF]

Somewhat off topic but....how does one even come across a thread this old? The last post was almost five years ago.
THIS!!! I about flipped out when I realized he quoted someone 5 years ago!!! Does every thread get saved on here?!?!? :eek:

[paulski]

I can't remember if I posted on this thread before (was I even on CBR five years ago? - doesn't look like it) but, yeah, Wolverine. That shit's just silly.

[UKFan]

Sentry and Blue Marvel. Hate these over-powered retcons dumped into the future, just hate them.

Jessica Jones. Whiny nag that's the opposite of what a hero is.

[dreyga2000]

Honestly, I like my Avengers as an ALL-STAR line-up with the biggest and coolest superheroes Marvel has to offer.... In fact that's how I preferr most of my super teams...

I love that Wolverine, Spider-Man, Ironman, Cap, and Thor are on the team they give this larger than life feel... I would love for the Hulk to join up again... I honestly one of the things I like about my comcis is that my favorite characters team-up, interact, and do wacky things together... I love titles like the Brave and the Bold and MTU...

I know people say they (well Pete and Logan) are just cash cows but I honestly think they add a sense of legitmacy to the moniker Earths Mightiest Heroes... It's kinda like how the JLA without Superman and Batman kinda seems second rate... Til this day I have no idea why people are so against them on the title....

Since honestly before New Avengers... The entire Avengers franchise seemed like a second tier team while the X-Men were the real big dogs...

I love when the uber popular yet not quite A-listers are on the team... Iron Fist, Dr. Strange, Cage, Ms. Marvel, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Beast, and etc...


Otherwise to me it feel like a randomly tossed togther hodge-podge of characters without a clear premise or M.O.... I absolutely hate when losers and Z-listers are a part of the roster... If were up to they would never make the line-up...

EX.

Gilgamesh
D-Man
Living Lighting
Machine Man
Dark Hawk
Traithalon
Silver Claw
Dr. Druid
Stingray
Sandman
Rage
Firebird
HellCat
Mantis
Moondragon

[Pedrocas]

Wolverine, Spider-Man, Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Doctor Strange, Thing, Marvel Boy/Protector, Spider-Woman, Valkyrie, Moon Knight, Eric O'Grady Antman, Rulk.

[Boozier]

Jessica Jones is no Avenger. She should return to being a PI. Alias was completely awesome. They should do it, especially wtih an Alias TV show coming soon.

[Prince Of Orphans]

Daredevil should never be an Avenger.

He's one of the last of his kind in regards to being a self hating, brooding, loner hero. Something that, if lost, is lost for good. Spider-man and Wolverine used to be loners too and now that part of their mythos is lost for good.

He's almost like an endangered species that should be protected.

Ghost Rider as well, for the same reasons.

[John Ossie]

Squirrel Girl - Unless the intention is to get the reader to roll around the floor laughing (well I do) then I don't think it's logical to have her in the Avengers personally.

Punisher - He's more of a loner really and isn't really a team player.

Blade - Same reason as the Punisher.

IMO anyway don't know if anyone agrees with me.

[the Hornet]

I think that if you are a superhero and ultimately good, you can join as long as you are willing to adhere by their rules. Also NA is a different type of team from the classic Avengers so the membership style should not apply. And finally, the name Avengers is silly cause they dont really avenge anything. Sorry, I am a fan but that always bugged me. Why oh why dint't they thinkof Defenders first?

[John Ossie]

I do somewhat agree with you Hornet about the name of the team at least.

Maybe they just thought that Avengers sounded cooler ?

[Nomads1]

I think that if you are a superhero and ultimately good, you can join as long as you are willing to adhere by their rules. Also NA is a different type of team from the classic Avengers so the membership style should not apply. And finally, the name Avengers is silly cause they dont really avenge anything. Sorry, I am a fan but that always bugged me. Why oh why dint't they thinkof Defenders first?

The tag line is that they avenge injustices.

Peace

[Ken Ashcroft]

Jessica Jones is no Avenger. She should return to being a PI. Alias was completely awesome. They should do it, especially wtih an Alias TV show coming soon.
Even though she's a member of the group, I think she's really there to accompany Cage and interact with him and their baby, rather than go on missions and fighting supervillians with the group. If Cage wasn't on the team, she doesn't really seem suited to being a team member.

[Zagreus]

Ah... let's keep everything the same forever. Only characters that I liked growing up in the 80's and that Stan Lee wrote as Avengers should be Avengers otherwise I don't like it because it's foreign and strange to me, and I'll make up some rationale, well thought out and logical about how this character shouldn't belong... ignoring how other people like it, because it doesn't sit well with me. Yes, sir, that's exactly what I'll do, any moment now. I don't like change, it frightens and confuses me.

[the Hornet]

The tag line is that they avenge injustices.

Peace

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. They should quote that now and then. Else they come accross as all bark and no bite.

[vitruvian]

SQUIRREL GIRL
but put her right beside Iron Man and the Black Widow and the two ideas can't coexist.

Hah. Her first appearance was a team-up with Iron Man, so clearly they can.

[paulski]

Ah... let's keep everything the same forever. Only characters that I liked growing up in the 80's and that Stan Lee wrote as Avengers should be Avengers otherwise I don't like it because it's foreign and strange to me, and I'll make up some rationale, well thought out and logical about how this character shouldn't belong... ignoring how other people like it, because it doesn't sit well with me. Yes, sir, that's exactly what I'll do, any moment now. I don't like change, it frightens and confuses me.

Yes, let's be condescending and belittle any other opinion that differs from yours. That's enormously constructive.

[Joe Rice]

Ah... let's keep everything the same forever. Only characters that I liked growing up in the 80's and that Stan Lee wrote as Avengers should be Avengers otherwise I don't like it because it's foreign and strange to me, and I'll make up some rationale, well thought out and logical about how this character shouldn't belong... ignoring how other people like it, because it doesn't sit well with me. Yes, sir, that's exactly what I'll do, any moment now. I don't like change, it frightens and confuses me.

Watch out, people don't like rationality on the internet.

[Joe Rice]

Yes, let's be condescending and belittle any other opinion that differs from yours. That's enormously constructive.

See?





_......

[Michael P]

Punisher - He's more of a loner really and isn't really a team player.


Also, he's not so much a superhero as a psychotic mass murderer.

[Michael P]

Also, characters I don't like. Any character I don't like should never be an Avenger.

[paulski]

See?





_......

Actually, that's not what I was saying at all. I actually loved when they would admit new characters to the team - it was probably as fun as the title ever got.

But that's not the same as saying that, no matter how much the team might have changed over the last decade, that guys like Wolverine or Red Hulk should be there. But again, sorry for daring to have an opinion different to your's or Zagreus.

Seriously, there are ways and means of posting your opinion without being a prick about it...

[direction9]

punisher

that's literally the only character i can think of that we should say this for

edit: oh and deadpool