Should the racial minority mutants have lost their powers?

[Sentinel K]

I disagree. Storm is one of my favorites character and I'm not a black goddess.

I do think there are some characters that you instantly fall in love because they're like you (in my case Yorick, from Y).

But I also think that story and characterization makes you love a character, like Rogue for me.

Ok, obviously thats not going to be the case for everyone, but i reckon in general thats how it works though.

I'd be happy to be proved wrong though.

[Beast]

True...you think that change affected Gambit everywhere? If so, do you think Rogue is regretting it?
Well, Apocalypse said that Gambit would have to relearn to use the bathroom. So maybe he pees sitting down now. Poor Rogue... Gambit's a eunuch. :eek: Good. No chance of breeding. :D

[Hi-Fi]

Ok, obviously thats not going to be the case for everyone, but i reckon in general thats how it works though.

I'd be happy to be proved wrong though.

Well, my post just proved you wrong! :evilsmile

[Beast]

Ok, obviously thats not going to be the case for everyone, but i reckon in general thats how it works though.

I'd be happy to be proved wrong though.
Nope. Because I dislike Northstar as a character, even though he's gay. And I love most of the straight characters. I also like Storm more than Scott 'White Bread' Summers. :D

[Sentinel K]

Well, my post just proved you wrong! :evilsmile

No it didn't.

There are always exceptions.

This time you are it.

[Brian M.]

Nope. Because I dislike Northstar as a character, even though he's gay. And I love most of the straight characters. I also like Storm more than Scott 'White Bread' Summers. :D

I don't like Storm b/c she's Black.
Honestly I'm kidding.

[Sentinel K]

Nope. Because I dislike Northstar as a character, even though he's gay. And I love most of the straight characters. I also like Storm more than Scott 'White Bread' Summers. :D

Ok. Fine.

I'm talking bollocks. Lets move on.

[shaunyc56]

That's the same weak sauce argument that everyone uses for discussions like this. Sure it's nice to see a varied cast, but to not be able to get into or enjoy a story simply because there isn't a character like you in it... well, that just seems like a pretty weak argument. Basically... "This story would be so great, if it had a black man in it... so I could get into it." Why is that necessary? If everyone needed a character that represented them, they should start making 'United Nations: The Comic Book'. I don't need a gay character in every story to get into it or enjoy it. And considering the current Black Panther book, I'd say that a black character is being given a lot of oppertunity to suck, given it's continuing to scrape along with it's poor sales still.


Throttle back on the stick Maverick. Does every Captain America story need the Falcon in it for me to enjoy, No, But I love it when he's there. I can read anything and enjoy it as long as it's good.

[mattbib]

Why didn't they decimate Emma Frost? Cyclops? Colossus? Wolverine? Havok? Angel? Etc, etc, etc.I think the storyline would've had more punch to it if they did something like that. ..Just some questions, some food for thought.There's really nothing arguable in any of your points, but the answer to this is clear. $$$. The same reason Disney would never kill off Mickey Mouse. You don't throw away long-standing, licensable properties. We've seen plenty of times that even when they DO it's only to bring them back.

[tetragene]

I'm gay and the majority of the characters I like are straight (the only gay characters I like are Wiccan and Hulkling). I'm white and really like Storm, Partriot, and Psylocke (when she's not uber powerful). I'm blond and blue-eyed and ABHOR Longshot with a passion.

If you can't delve beyond the surface level to relate to characters then I think that's more of an individual reader's problem than a writer or company's problem. Although you can credit the latter two for not giving people interesting enough characters to relate to.

Also--while it may have seemed like Cecilia Reyes and some other charcaters were shuttled off to limbo unfairly, despite having a considerable fanbase--look at characters like Banshee or Dazzler. Considerable fanbases and both were limbo'ed for a while (Dazzler for 10+ years) and one was killed off. I think it's a bit unfair to harken most instances like this to "minority characters not being given a fair shot" when its happened to considerably popular white characters too. And before anyone retorts with something, I'm not accusing anyone in particular of this, but it seems to be a reoccuring "idea" on this thread.

[shaunyc56]

I don't like Storm b/c she's Black.
Honestly I'm kidding.


It's cool, I don't like Jean Grey cause she sucks....

[Tre Styles]

There's really nothing arguable in any of your points, but the answer to this is clear. $$$. The same reason Disney would never kill off Mickey Mouse. You don't throw away long-standing, licensable properties. We've seen plenty of times that even when they DO it's only to bring them back.

Yes, I know that's the correct answer. It is cash money. But I think that in writing such "life changing" stories, it would've been a little more shocking, a little more believable, and maybe made even more money had they done something to some of the bigger players....and yes, I know that they decimated Mags and Charles, but c'mon....Mags already has his powers back. I think what Marvel is doing in Civil War is a lot more ballsy than Decimation.

[Hi-Fi]

I'm gay and the majority of the characters I like are straight (the only gay characters I like are Wiccan and Hulkling).

You don't like Karolina and Karma?? :(

[Brian M.]

It's cool, I don't like Jean Grey cause she sucks....


You didn't read the hidden text.

[Beast]

Yes, I know that's the correct answer. It is cash money. But I think that in writing such "life changing" stories, it would've been a little more shocking, a little more believable, and maybe made even more money had they done something to some of the bigger players....and yes, I know that they decimated Mags and Charles, but c'mon....Mags already has his powers back. I think what Marvel is doing in Civil War is a lot more ballsy than Decimation.

Decimation wasn't really meant to be ballsy though. It was meant to just put the genie back in the bottle in regard to the absurd number of pointless mutants out there. The books had gotten away from what made them great in the 70's and 80's, that the X-Men and mutants in general were special and rare. That's why they decimated the majority of the mutant population. For one, they didn't want to kill them to dial back the numbers... but they wanted to keep the popular characters as well. It's a 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't' type of situation. Frankly some of the stories coming out of Decimation is the best they've been in years.

[shaunyc56]

The "I want to see someone like me once and awhile" argument doesn't mean you can't like something else. I'm a former United States Marine, I love Captain America, Cyclops is my favorite Xman, pretty much I gravitate towards the tacticians. These are characters I feel share qualities w/ me, but we as people look to the surface, I don't feel I have to apologize for wanting to see some darker faces in a "team or group" setting.

[shaunyc56]

You didn't read the hidden text.


I did, I'm just squeezing your shoes a little.

[Tre Styles]

Decimation wasn't really meant to be ballsy though. It was meant to just put the genie back in the bottle in regard to the absurd number of pointless mutants out there. The books had gotten away from what made them great in the 70's and 80's, that the X-Men and mutants in general were special and rare. That's why they decimated the majority of the mutant population. For one, they didn't want to kill them to dial back the numbers... but they wanted to keep the popular characters as well. It's a 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't' type of situation.

I rather they didn't damn it. ;)

[Beast]

I rather they didn't damn it. ;)
I don't know, I lost a couple of my faves in the Decimation... but I have to say that the storylines have been worth it. I'm just hoping that the books continue to recapture the feel and tone of the classic ones.

[Tre Styles]

The "I want to see someone like me once and awhile" argument doesn't mean you can't like something else. I'm a former United States Marine, I love Captain America, Cyclops is my favorite Xman, pretty much I gravitate towards the tacticians. These are characters I feel share qualities w/ me, but we as people look to the surface, I don't feel I have to apologize for wanting to see some darker faces in a "team or group" setting.


I agree, I like a lot of the X-Men. Most of em in fact. No, you don't have to apologize for what you'd like to see. You have every right to want to see more darker faces in a team or group setting. It's perfectly understandable. But it's going to have to be a FUBU thing.(Feel me?) Because as Matt pointed out, all the popular characters just aren't going anywhere, and we'll be lucky if we get a Bishop or Storm in the next decade.

[Tre Styles]

I don't know, I lost a couple of my faves in the Decimation... but I have to say that the storylines have been worth it. I'm just hoping that the books continue to recapture the feel and tone of the classic ones.

Which storylines in particular? Because I haven't felt that they've been that great....the Civil War stuff is good though.

[X-Factor]

The main topic at hand is completely ludicrous. That's like asking, "should all of the X-Men be immune from harm" (which apparently they are anyway).

Exceptions are ridiculously stupid.

However, there is an odd rate at which X-Men minority characters are killed off or Defecated. It is like waving a juicy steak in front of a hungry dog. If Marvel had no gay characters and finally introduced one only to use it as cannon fodder a year later (and never flesh him or her out) I think it would show a lack of willingness to have a character who is different in that sense.

If you can't delve beyond the surface level to relate to characters then I think that's more of an individual reader's problem than a writer or company's problem. Although you can credit the latter two for not giving people interesting enough characters to relate to.

I don't think anyone is being that superficial beyond the poster Callisto.

However you lack of empathy is quite insulting. Its almost like saying, "gay's can't marry?". Well that's your problem.

Also--while it may have seemed like Cecilia Reyes and some other charcaters were shuttled off to limbo unfairly, despite having a considerable fanbase--look at characters like Banshee or Dazzler. Considerable fanbases and both were limbo'ed for a while (Dazzler for 10+ years) and one was killed off. I think it's a bit juvenile to harken all instances like this to "minority characters not being given a fair shot" when its happened to considerably popular white characters too. And before anyone retorts with something, I'm not accusing anyone in particular of this, but it seems to be a reoccuring "idea" on this thread.

And the difference is: look at the extensive histories Banshee and Dazzler got over the years.

Cecilia? X-Man for a year or two then killed in a letters column.

[Beast]

Which storylines in particular? Because I haven't felt that they've been that great....the Civil War stuff is good though.
Deadly Genesis, End of Grays and Wand'ring Star, Exiles, X-Factor, New Excalibur.

Not everything has been great, but it hasn't been as bad as it was.

[Tre Styles]

Deadly Genesis, End of Grays and Wand'ring Star, Exiles, X-Factor, New Excalibur.

Not everything has been great, but it hasn't been as bad as it was.

lol. I liked most of those storylines, but I was think about the main X-Men books. and how Decimation affected them, End of Greys could've been told without decimation..Deadly Genesis was good.. X-Factor has been great. What was
"Wand'ring Star" about again? And does New Excalibur even really deal with the effects of decimation? I've not read Exiles in a long while though, so I don't know how Decimation affected that book.

[Beast]

lol. I liked most of those storylines, but I was think about the main X-Men books. and how Decimation affected them, End of Greys could've been told without decimation..Deadly Genesis was good.. X-Factor has been great. What was
"Wand'ring Star" about again? And does New Excalibur even really deal with the effects of decimation? I've not read Exiles in a long while though, so I don't know how Decimation affected that book.
Wand'ring Star was basically the continuation of 'End of Greys', with Rachel deciding to go after the Shi'ar Death Squad Commandos. The storyline reads like it was a last minute change, since I think CC had his own plans for the X-Team to go into space but then was told he was off the book.

And yes, New Excalibur dealt with the effects of HoM/Decimation. The team is there due to the Decimation of mutants. Black Air is back in action due to Decimation. And due to the cracks across reality caused by HoM, the Shadow King was able to slip back into the 616 with a team of Shadow X-Men.

[X-Factor]

lol. I liked most of those storylines, but I was think about the main X-Men books. and how Decimation affected them, End of Greys could've been told without decimation..Deadly Genesis was good.. X-Factor has been great. What was
"Wand'ring Star" about again? And does New Excalibur even really deal with the effects of decimation? I've not read Exiles in a long while though, so I don't know how Decimation affected that book.

Agreed. Even Deadly Genesis at its core could've done without it.

Wand'ring Star was a filler arc to follow up on End of Greys.

[Haunt]

But that makes me insensitive.


no, i'd say it's the condescension that makes you insensitive. has nothing to do with you liking only white characters.

That's the same weak sauce argument that everyone uses for discussions like this. Sure it's nice to see a varied cast, but to not be able to get into or enjoy a story simply because there isn't a character like you in it... well, that just seems like a pretty weak argument. Basically... "This story would be so great, if it had a black man in it... so I could get into it." Why is that necessary? If everyone needed a character that represented them, they should start making 'United Nations: The Comic Book'. I don't need a gay character in every story to get into it or enjoy it. And considering the current Black Panther book, I'd say that a black character is being given a lot of oppertunity to suck, given it's continuing to scrape along with it's poor sales still.


you would notice if all of the x-men were straight black people.

[Brian M.]

no, i'd say it's the condescension that makes you insensitive. has nothing to do with you liking only white characters.




you would notice if all of the x-men were straight black people.

You really need to understand sarcasm too buddy.

[Beast]

you would notice if all of the x-men were straight black people.
Your point is? Not all the X-Men are straight white people either.

Unless you ignore their culture heritage and lump all of them together as White.

Regardless of the fact that so-called white characters from different countries are different.

It's a shame so much focus is placed on skin color, instead of character.

[Brian M.]

Your point is? Not all the X-Men are straight white people either.

Unless you ignore their culture heritage and lump all of them together as White.

It's a shame so much focus is placed on skin color, instead of character.

Oh I know, we should be bashing their sexual orientation or cultural lifestyle instead :) I mean all those men and women living in a gaint mansion like that...the STD's going around must be rampant.

[Beast]

Oh I know, we should be bashing their sexual orientation or cultural lifestyle instead :) I mean all those men and women living in a gaint mansion like that...the STD's going around must be rampant.
Only when Gambit is there. :D

[Zombienorthstar]

When you pick up a comic, just like when you watch TV or a movie, you want to see someone who looks a little like you so you can put yourself there. .


Thats so weak...are you saying races are incapable or relating to eacother? I'm a gay man...and i still fel the pain of the Scott/Jean relationship despite that...the emotion i would have felt would have been the same even if they were two men....i could still relate to a man and a woman...i could still care.

[shaunyc56]

Thats so weak...are you saying races are incapable or relating to eacother? I'm a gay man...and i still fel the pain of the Scott/Jean relationship despite that...the emotion i would have felt would have been the same even if they were two men....i could still relate to a man and a woman...i could still care.


check post #266.

[Haunt]

You really need to understand sarcasm too buddy.


no, i'd rather just misinterpret you like people do me. afterall, you didn't use a smiley or anything. deal with it.


Your point is?

you know my point but don't want to even try to see it from the other side. i'd bet anything that you'd be bothered by a team that was all straight black characters. doesn't matter if the current lineups aren't all white. i'm showing you that race does matter and that even you would focus on color or sexuality.

[QUOTE=Beast] Not all the X-Men are straight white people either.

Unless you ignore their culture heritage and lump all of them together as White.

Regardless of the fact that so-called white characters from different countries are different.

Professor Xavier
Nightcrawler
Havok
Polaris
Marvel Girl
Warpath
Darwin

Rogue
Sabretooth
Mystique
Mastermind
Iceman
Cannonball
Cable

Multiple Man
Rictor
M
Strong Guy
Wolfsbane
Layla Miller

Cyclops
Beast
Wolverine
White Queen
Shadowcat

Surge
Hellion
Mercury
Rockslide
Dust
X-23


go through that list and tell me who the prominent characters are.

It's a shame so much focus is placed on skin color, instead of character.

it's a shame that they don't create non-disposable minority characters.

[Zombienorthstar]

no, i'd rather just misinterpret you like people do me. afterall, you didn't use a smiley or anything. deal with it.


LOL...so cause your constantly misinterpreted youd rather just be ignorant...sometimes you have really immature endings to your arguements when you cant think of anything else to say.

[Haunt]

LOL...so cause your constantly misinterpreted youd rather just be ignorant...sometimes you have really immature endings to your arguements when you cant think of anything else to say.


what argument?

[Brian M.]

LOL...so cause your constantly misinterpreted youd rather just be ignorant...sometimes you have really immature endings to your arguements when you cant think of anything else to say.

I had a retarded cousin once so I know how to deal w/ them, just smile and pass him your tater tots.

[Haunt]

I had a retarded cousin once so I know how to deal w/ them, just smile and pass him your tater tots.


i had wondered how it was that you weren't single.

[Beast]

you know my point but don't want to even try to see it from the other side. i'd bet anything that you'd be bothered by a team that was all straight black characters. doesn't matter if the current lineups aren't all white. i'm showing you that race does matter and that even you would focus on color or sexuality.
You would be wrong. Because I don't care about the color of a character's skin, that's not what makes them an interesting character. It's their development and evolution as characters. And yes it does matter if the cultural line-ups arn't all WASPs. Because someone who's American is going to be a great deal different than someone who is German or English. But if you beat the dead horse over and over and ignore everything that sets the character apart and simply focus on the color of their skin, you're doing a diservice to the character. In fact, your being racist. Your judging characters simply on the color of their skin, by implying that because characters from several nationalities are still white, they're the same. You're ignoring their cultural heritage and lumping them all into the same 'White' pile. Race doesn't matter, you're the ones putting emphasis on it.

[Beast]

i had wondered how it was that you weren't single.
Itching for that second banning already, Haunt?

[Haunt]

You would be wrong. Because I don't care about the color of a character's skin, that's not what makes them an interesting character. It's their development and evolution as characters. And yes it does matter if the cultural line-ups arn't all WASPs. Because someone who's American is going to be a great deal different than someone who is German or English. But if you beat the dead horse over and over and ignore everything that sets the character apart and simply focus on the color of their skin, you're doing a diservice to the character. In fact, your being racist. Your judging characters simply on the color of their skin, by implying that because characters from several nationalities are still white, they're the same. You're ignoring their cultural heritage.

or maybe i'm a realist and don't see Kurt Wagner or Peter Rasputin as being strongly connected to their respective homelands/cultures. maybe i just see that all of the characters are written as one culture; the writer's.

Itching for that second banning already, Haunt?


only if the guy who called me a retard is.

[Zombienorthstar]

what argument?

Such as just now...


and also such as further back in the topic where after a disagreement your reply was 'whatever its the fourth of july'

[Beast]

or maybe i'm a realist and don't see Kurt Wagner or Peter Rasputin as being strongly connected to their respective homelands/cultures. maybe i just see that all of the characters are written as one culture; the writer's.
Well, then you clearly don't pay attention to the characters very well, do you.

[Brian M.]

i had wondered how it was that you weren't single.

Someone had to love your mother.

[Haunt]

thanks for reminding me. i don't really care about this topic. and it's the 5th of July.

[Cowlander]

Itching for that second banning already, Haunt?
If he gets banned for that, it should definitely be after a few others in this thread

[Beast]

If he gets banned for that, it should definitely be after a few others in this thread
Not really... after all, he just admitted he's posting to cause problems.
thanks for reminding me. i don't really care about this topic. and it's the 5th of July.

[Zombienorthstar]

If he gets banned for that, it should definitely be after a few others in this thread


True...regardless of sides guys...you shouldnt call eacother retards....start all that 'your mother' stuff...it just gets immature.

If you have a problem with a posters conduct i find it best to just mention it..rather than insult them.

[Cowlander]

Not really... after all, he just admitted he's posting to cause problems.
If you think calling someone a retard is less bannable than that "being single" comment, I have no idea what to say.

[tetragene]

I don't think anyone is being that superficial beyond the poster Callisto.

However you lack of empathy is quite insulting. Its almost like saying, "gay's can't marry?". Well that's your problem.

Lack of empathy? I see it more as "look for personality traits and character drives to relate to instead of surface-levels things like skin color". I'm empathetic with the "want" to have characters you can identify with on a surface level, as I've stated before. I think it'd be nice for there to be more black, asian, hispanic, gay, etc characters. But I think there is SO much more to these characters than things like skin color or sexual orientation--which while those "minority" aspects are...in the minority and that can be disheartening, what's really at the bottom of any character--despite race or anything else--is their personality, motivation, ambitions, etc. That's certainly the things I find to relate to (and ultimately find likable/enjoyable) about characters like Storm, Partriot, and Psylocke--who I don't share the same race and/or gender (or sexual orientation in most cases) with.

i think your an idiot because you fail to grasp how this is nothing more then a simple debate no one is outraged over anything here.

Really? Look who's backtracking now...

there is barely any racially diverse mutants as it is but to depower a well known asian character as jubilliee or moonstar or tag or windancer it made me quite outraged!

[X-Factor]

Lack of empathy? I see it more as "look for personality traits and character drives to relate to instead of surface-levels things like skin color". I'm empathetic with the "want" to have characters you can identify with on a surface level, as I've stated before. I think it'd be nice for there to be more black, asian, hispanic, gay, etc characters. But I think there is SO much more to these characters than things like skin color or sexual orientation--which while those "minority" aspects are...in the minority and that can be disheartening, what's really at the bottom of any character--despite race or anything else--is their personality, motivation, ambitions, etc. That's certainly the things I find to relate to (and ultimately find likable/enjoyable) about characters like Storm, Partriot, and Psylocke--who I don't share the same race and/or gender (or sexual orientation in most cases) with.


Okay, this I can agree with. Yes, it'd be nice but its not the biggest nor primary issue when it comes to characters. I didn't read your previous post where you stated this, I apologize.