Brubaker on Uncanny

[Bobster777]

Over the last five years, while I have liked the Uncanny book, none of the stories really resonated or stuck with me. Basically, all the writers have been average to good, not really amazing. By the end of Bru's run, do you think he'll be remembered as one of those amazing writers who really contributed something to a book or will he just be in the average/good category?

[Jake V]

Depends on how long he'll be on it. We don't really know a whole lot about his run aside from his plan for the first 12, so it's incredibly hard to say.

I am looking forward to it though. And I really can't remember the last time I said that about reading Uncanny.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

We haven't even read his first issue yet...:rolleyes:

[Bobster777]

We haven't even read his first issue yet...:rolleyes:

Ha ha, yeah, I know. Just considering what he has done for other books, I'm curious to see how people think he'll do.

[Yoel]

I'm not really sure. I wasn't that into Deadly Genesis, but I am very interested to see what he does, especially since he's taking his team off into space. I think he's got the ability and the characters to make it a great and memorable run, but we'll just have to wait and see!

[The Lucky One]

Ha ha, yeah, I know. Just considering what he has done for other books, I'm curious to see how people think he'll do.

Don't be offended, dude, but it really is a pretty silly question... seriously, there's no way of knowing. There've been writers I've been really enthused about coming onto books that've subsequently become terrible, and there've been writers I've had little hope for really showing their chops and stepping it up on books. Chris Claremont is the greatest writer the X-Men have ever had, yet even so, a lot of people didn't enjoy his latest Uncanny run. Is Brubaker a talented writer? Sure, but from past precedent, that's definitely no guarantee of success... in fact, with exceptions, I'd say established, highly-regarded writers tend to enjoy much less critical success with the X-Men (Stan Lee, Alan Davis, Chris Claremont's second run) than those who nobody has any expectations for (Claremont's first run, Peter David on X-Factor).

-D

[Polaris437]

if you wanna hear what brubaker has to say on his run in uncanny x-men, go to this website http://www.marvel.com/news/.470 and click on the podcast. there's so much in store for the next 12 issues.

[bounusball75]

Yea, Brubakers got me excited about uncanny for the first time in a while.

[Bobster777]

Yea, Brubakers got me excited about uncanny for the first time in a while.

Yeah, I've never been interested in the Shiar, but considering how Brubaker has built up this story, I really want to see how things turn out.

[Keith_Martineau]

I'm ready. Next week can't come soon enough. I'm getting an X-Men 275 feeling off of this, and even if it's half as good as that issue, it'll be awesome.

[jarrod]

I'm getting an X-Men 275 feeling off of this, and even if it's half as good as that issue, it'll be awesome.
Heh, me too... if only we could have the team in school uniforms again...

[Polaris437]

yeah, and with billy tan drawing the story, this'll be huge. although, he didn't have to change salvador larroca's costume for Polaris. now she's back to the tiara and all green. but i'm glad brubaker chose to work on Polaris (and Havok).

[riotgear]

I'm waiting to reserve judgement, as I loved his Captain America, enjoyed X-Men: Deadly Genesis (but it could've been much better), and haven't cared for his DD yet. I'm continuing to read DD, because so far, it's better than Bendis' run (just my opinion), and I do like the character tremendously, even though there hasn't been a standout issue (to me) of Volume 2 yet. I'm on the fence about Tan, as his artwork in the X-23 mini was great, but his Uncanny fillins have fallen short. I'm hoping it was due to a time crunch, but we'll see.

[cutler]

sorry to rehash what you all have to say, but i am in agreement with many of you. i think a lot depends on how long B. stays on uncanny. obviously the longer the better, but i have only heard about the first twelve issues thus far. does anyone know if he plans on doing more? and as far as B.'s current writing i for one think that he is on fire. both cap america and daredevil are awesome titles. obviously marvel is putting a lot of faith in B. because those are 3 main titles he is shaping for the marvel u. uncanny could be a the next best x title since morrisons run on x men. personally i think whedons run has been alright, but not great (but thats a whole different discussion!)

[fishtaco]

I doubt his run will be considered legendary one day. :cool:

[Babylon23]

I'm interested to see what he's got, but not necessarily excited. I'm a huge Bru fan. I love Gotham Central, DD, his Batman work and especially Cap. However, I wasn't a big fan of Deadly Genesis. I felt it was a poor story with some very good character moments and an awful retcon. Also, I'm not a fan of Tan's artwork.

Based on that, I'm still a little wary about the book. However, Bru has rarely disappointed me, so I'll be checking it out.

As for whether he'll be remembered, who knows? CC is remembered for a 17 year run that defined the X-Men. Most of the other writers aren't really acknowledged, with rare exceptions like PAD and Morrison. If Brubaker is on the book for a while, he has the potential to be acknowledged as one of the greats, but we won't know until the run begins.

[fishtaco]

I'm interested to see what he's got, but not necessarily excited. I'm a huge Bru fan. I love Gotham Central, DD, his Batman work and especially Cap. However, I wasn't a big fan of Deadly Genesis. I felt it was a poor story with some very good character moments and an awful retcon. Also, I'm not a fan of Tan's artwork.

Based on that, I'm still a little wary about the book. However, Bru has rarely disappointed me, so I'll be checking it out.

As for whether he'll be remembered, who knows? CC is remembered for a 17 year run that defined the X-Men. Most of the other writers aren't really acknowledged, with rare exceptions like PAD and Morrison. If Brubaker is on the book for a while, he has the potential to be acknowledged as one of the greats, but we won't know until the run begins.I'm interested in his first "story arc" because it reminds me of Uncanny X-Men #'s 275-277, and I'd like to compare what he has planned to Claremont's plans for the Shiar Empire in the late 90's (or somewhere around there). Brubaker seems like a good writer, although I thought Deadly Genesis was total crap; I just wish he wouldn't write the X-Men. I won't remember Joss Whedon's run a few years after he leaves, so I don't see how I can ever think highly of whatever Brubaker is going to do 10 years from now...

[david r]

One thing that worries is me how much work Ed Brubaker has stacked up. By year's end, he'll be writing:

Captain America
Daredevil
Criminal
Uncanny X-Men

I would say that 3 books is pushing any talented writer. 4 books a month may cause quality damage on his books. I wish he'd held off on doing "Criminal".

[Brian M.]

I'm interested in his first "story arc" because it reminds me of Uncanny X-Men #'s 275-277, and I'd like to compare what he has planned to Claremont's plans for the Shiar Empire in the late 90's (or somewhere around there). Brubaker seems like a good writer, although I thought Deadly Genesis was total crap; I just wish he wouldn't write the X-Men. I won't remember Joss Whedon's run a few years after he leaves, so I don't see how I can ever think highly of whatever Brubaker is going to do 10 years from now...


Well going in w/ that mindset I doubt your'll like it. Gotta stay postive.

[Loestal]

I'm interested to see what he's got, but not necessarily excited. I'm a huge Bru fan. I love Gotham Central, DD, his Batman work and especially Cap. However, I wasn't a big fan of Deadly Genesis. I felt it was a poor story with some very good character moments and an awful retcon. Also, I'm not a fan of Tan's artwork.


You do know that it wasn't his story...he was just hired to write it. Vulcan and the retcon stuff is not his ideas. Now his upcomming run I think is all his, but Deadly Genesis was him simply doing somebody elses work.

[Babylon23]

You do know that it wasn't his story...he was just hired to write it. Vulcan and the retcon stuff is not his ideas. Now his upcomming run I think is all his, but Deadly Genesis was him simply doing somebody elses work.

That's cool. I didn't realise that it wasn't his story. That may explain why I was so disappointed, given that Brubaker has never disappointed me in the past. As I said, I'm cautiously optimistic about this run.

Of course, I was one of the people that was already enjoying the book under Claremont, and was hoping he wouldn't leave, so that may be playing a part in my lack of enthusiasm as well.

[Mariah]

That's cool. I didn't realise that it wasn't his story. That may explain why I was so disappointed, given that Brubaker has never disappointed me in the past. As I said, I'm cautiously optimistic about this run.

Of course, I was one of the people that was already enjoying the book under Claremont, and was hoping he wouldn't leave, so that may be playing a part in my lack of enthusiasm as well.
I agree, except, I didn't really enjoy first fallen, but I had been entertained throughout the run. Some I enjoyed more than the others, like, I didn't like x-23, but I loved the fury one.

[Bobster777]

Wow, I didn't know so many people didn't like Deadly Genesis. I loved the story. It left me really interested to see what will happen on Uncanny.

[Brian M.]

From the way the arcs are playing out in Uncanny, Brubakers last issue for the current arc will be #483, after that he could do another 12 issue arc feeding off the last one. Hopefully by then Jean will be back and issue #500 could be a stand alone, one of the classic reflection issues they do from time to time. Double size it and toss the O5 at Harry's Hideaway and Make My Marvel.

[Keith_Martineau]

Alright, for those of us who loved Deadly Genesis, and those of us who hated it. It's not fair to pre-judge his Uncanny run based on Deadly Genesis. But it's equally unfair to say that Deadly Genesis wasn't his story.

Listen to that podcast that was linked before. It's fun.

Joe Q and editorial wanted something to commemorate the 30th anniversary of Giant Sized X-Men #1; something that was kind of a dark mystery, involving a terrible secret of Xavier's past.

Some of these elements were in place, and they hired Bru because they felt he would do this kind of story justice. So there were certain beats he had to hit. But the story WAS his. He was given a basic skeleton, and had to put meat, skin and a heart on.

So yes, Deadly Genesis wasn't totally his story, whereas the Uncanny run will be---but he didn't "write someone elses story."

I liked a lot of the character moments in Deadly Genesis (I liked the story overall) and thats the sort of thing I'm looking for here first. Just like I love Astonishing for it's character moments.

It's funny to me to hear him say that he isn't a good teams book writer. Because I F'n LOVED his run on The Authority. He took a franchise that's proven difficult to write, and knocked it out of the park. This is why I'm ready to trust him with the X-Men.

[Tilt]

I enjoyed DG quite a bit considering it was a big retcon, much to my own shock and awe. Didn't expect much, and didn't care for Banshee's death, but other than that I liked it. Love the preview pages for the coming issue, so I'm failry sure I'll enjoy the run..if not I'll drop it when it stops being entertaing.

People complain about the space aspect of this arc but I love that they are getting away from the mansion and the other teams, we don't have to think about how it fits in with the other stuff going on (and for Astonishing that's a godsend) or all the Civil War junk.

[Sentinel K]

You do know that it wasn't his story...he was just hired to write it. Vulcan and the retcon stuff is not his ideas. Now his upcomming run I think is all his, but Deadly Genesis was him simply doing somebody elses work.

Vulcan and the 1.5 team was his idea!

He was hired to write a series comemmerating (sp?) Giant sized #1. To revisit it.

Thats about all he was given to work with.

[Sean Walsh]

I can certainly say that his DEADLY GENESIS mini intrigued me enough to (a) not sell it on eBay once it ended, and (b) add UXM to my pull list when he takes over next month. :)

[Loestal]

Vulcan and the 1.5 team was his idea!

He was hired to write a series comemmerating (sp?) Giant sized #1. To revisit it.

Thats about all he was given to work with.


Not what I read...I'm not gonna argue with you but I read something different on Newsarama. It's really not important though.

[Keith_Martineau]

Not what I read...I'm not gonna argue with you but I read something different on Newsarama. It's really not important though.

A link, to a Podcast, where Brubaker says exactly what happened, is on the first page of this thread. The information is all right there for anyone who wants to pay attention to it.

[Ed Brubaker]

One thing that worries is me how much work Ed Brubaker has stacked up. By year's end, he'll be writing:

Captain America
Daredevil
Criminal
Uncanny X-Men

I would say that 3 books is pushing any talented writer. 4 books a month may cause quality damage on his books. I wish he'd held off on doing "Criminal".

Actually, although many of my new Marvel readers don't seem to know it, I've been doing 4 or more books a month for about five years now, generally. Last year I was doing Cap, Authority, Sleeper, and X-Men Deadly Genesis, and the Books of Doom, and Daredevil. Not scripts for all of them every month out of twelve, but at least four a month. So don't sweat my workload, it's not changing at all, the only thing that's changing is I'll be fully owning a book I'm really excited about.

[Porcelain]

the only thing that's changing is I'll be fully owning a book I'm really excited about.
:D

Seperate note: Despite having seen the images for weeks, flipping over a new comic today and finding the ads for UXM & XM made me happy.

[Affinity]

Haha, best drop in from a writer in a while. Hi Ed!

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

Actually, although many of my new Marvel readers don't seem to know it, I've been doing 4 or more books a month for about five years now, generally. Last year I was doing Cap, Authority, Sleeper, and X-Men Deadly Genesis, and the Books of Doom, and Daredevil. Not scripts for all of them every month out of twelve, but at least four a month. So don't sweat my workload, it's not changing at all, the only thing that's changing is I'll be fully owning a book I'm really excited about.



mmmmmm Authority...ssoooo good....Is there anyway to Bring Jenny Sparks into the X-men? I mean really I think she would a breathe of fresh air. And to see her put Xavier in his place would be awesome.

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

You wish you were in this closet with me, don't lie, I'm holding Thor's Hammer...


That's the smallest version of his hammer I've ever seen.

[david r]

Actually, although many of my new Marvel readers don't seem to know it, I've been doing 4 or more books a month for about five years now, generally. Last year I was doing Cap, Authority, Sleeper, and X-Men Deadly Genesis, and the Books of Doom, and Daredevil. Not scripts for all of them every month out of twelve, but at least four a month. So don't sweat my workload, it's not changing at all, the only thing that's changing is I'll be fully owning a book I'm really excited about.

Great news, Ed. Yeah, I've got to read Criminal. Sounds like an intriguing concept.

I'm going to buy #475 and see how I like it. Chris Claremont will always be the greatest X-writer, in my eyes. But I'm always willing to give a new writer a shot. If Ed's run is anywhere as good as his Sleeper or Captain America, I'm sure I'll like it. <And do the X-Men REALLY battle the Starjammers? I hope that confrontation happens!>

[Brian M.]

Great news, Ed. Yeah, I've got to read Criminal. Sounds like an intriguing concept.

I'm going to buy #475 and see how I like it. Chris Claremont will always be the greatest X-writer, in my eyes. But I'm always willing to give a new writer a shot. If Ed's run is anywhere as good as his Sleeper or Captain America, I'm sure I'll like it. <And do the X-Men REALLY battle the Starjammers? I hope that confrontation happens!>


Espically the Corsair/Havok or Corsair/Rachel fight.

[The Real Rogue]

Well, they will take 12 months to tell the Shi'ar story, so I guess they will at least bring the following things up:

Vulcan versus Shi'ar
Vulcan meeting Corsair and bound (or not)
The love live of Xavier and Lilandra (hope he stays there)
Rachel confronting the Shi'ar about killing her familie
Shi'ar panic because another Phoenix is in their space
Havok and Vulcan bounding
Darwin and Vulcan versus Xavier

I hope Polaris, Warpath and Kurt will get big roles too, but can't figure out how they fit in

[Siddon]

Darwin and Vulcan versus Xavier

I hope Polaris, Warpath and Kurt will get big roles too, but can't figure out how they fit in

I think Kurt and James are going to be the real focus of the book. Call it a hunch.

[Madrox84]

I think Kurt and James are going to be the real focus of the book. Call it a hunch.

YAY!!!

*Does the dance of joy*

[Daithi]

I think Kurt and James are going to be the real focus of the book. Call it a hunch.

Warpath definitely. He's the new Wolverine bub! I'm not too sure about Kurt, but last I checked Cerise was still working for the Shi'ar.

[david r]

Warpath definitely. He's the new Wolverine bub! I'm not too sure about Kurt, but last I checked Cerise was still working for the Shi'ar.

Yeah, it'd be great if Cerise showed up in Ed's run. Her and Kurt Wagner had a nice little romance going on.

[Madrox84]

Yeah, it'd be great if Cerise showed up in Ed's run. Her and Kurt Wagner had a nice little romance going on.

That it would... Kurt needs some romance.

[david r]

I just read a review of #475 (I know. I was BAD!). And would have to say, if they posted everything in #475, I'm disappointed. It sounded decompressed.

My core worry about Ed Brubaker's run on X-Men is it becoming decompressed. I'm an old-school fan and X-Men was a VERY dense book, and that is what I expect from them. ESPECIALLY on Uncanny X-Men. ESPECIALLY coming after the dense stories of Chris Claremont.

Please Mr. Brubaker, do not decompress your stories. You said you loved the classic Claremont/Byrne era of X-Men, and one thing those beauties weren't was decompressed. They were PACKED with action, characters and subplots. I hope your inspiration for your run is on these classics, which means NO DECOMPRESSION!!!

[fishtaco]

I just read a review of #475 (I know. I was BAD!). And would have to say, if they posted everything in #475, I'm disappointed. It sounded decompressed.

My core worry about Ed Brubaker's run on X-Men is it becoming decompressed. I'm an old-school fan and X-Men was a VERY dense book, and that is what I expect from them. ESPECIALLY on Uncanny X-Men. ESPECIALLY coming after the dense stories of Chris Claremont.

Please Mr. Brubaker, do not decompress your stories. You said you loved the classic Claremont/Byrne era of X-Men, and one thing those beauties weren't was decompressed. They were PACKED with action, characters and subplots. I hope your inspiration for your run is on these classics, which means NO DECOMPRESSION!!! Agreed. Mr. Brubaker, please break Marvel's current tradition of decompression. Limit the amount of multi-page spreads (and single page spreads, too), and pack in as many subplots as possible. You seem quite knowledgeable in regards to the X-Men, so I would think you have read the so-called Wilderness Era (UXM 253-269). Look at how many different stories were also going on at the same time. There were things happening all over the X-universe (Savage Land, Muir, destroyed Xavier Institute, Morlock Alley, Outback, Cairo, Genosha, Madripoor, Shiar Space). Use as many different villains at the same time as possible, try scattering the team and using more and more characters, etc. Thanks.

[Daithi]

You seem quite knowledgeable in regards to the X-Men, so I would think you have read the so-called Wilderness Era (UXM 253-269). Look at how many different stories were also going on at the same time. There were things happening all over the X-universe (Savage Land, Muir, destroyed Xavier Institute, Morlock Alley, Outback, Cairo, Genosha, Madripoor, Shiar Space). Use as many different villains at the same time as possible, try scattering the team and using more and more characters, etc. Thanks.

I don't think the best solution for any writer is to duplicate what another writer did 20 years ago.

[Affinity]

I don't think Fish means duplicate ENTIRELY, but do your own thing with it. Turn the franchise into a saga, an epic, a fabulous story that one should sit down and read on a rainy day, something to go back to ten years later...make it memorable, not flimsy three issue arcs that are wasted entirely on the breaking up of an already broken Gambit and Rogue.

Small issues are fun, fun are arcs are great, but each of the X-Titles are so exclusive and determined to have the best, most earth shattering things ever instead of working together and writing the X-Family as a whole.

I guess, though, its very hard to do that with three books or more, as opposed to one single book, where each issue felt like an arc in itself.

[Daithi]

I don't think Fish means duplicate ENTIRELY, but do your own thing with it. Turn the franchise into a saga, an epic, a fabulous story that one should sit down and read on a rainy day, something to go back to ten years later...make it memorable, not flimsy three issue arcs that are wasted entirely on the breaking up of an already broken Gambit and Rogue.

True but it's a year long arc that deals with the rise and fall of the Shi'ar. That's epic right there.

[DDM]

I just read a review of #475 (I know. I was BAD!). And would have to say, if they posted everything in #475, I'm disappointed. It sounded decompressed.

My core worry about Ed Brubaker's run on X-Men is it becoming decompressed. I'm an old-school fan and X-Men was a VERY dense book, and that is what I expect from them. ESPECIALLY on Uncanny X-Men. ESPECIALLY coming after the dense stories of Chris Claremont.

Please Mr. Brubaker, do not decompress your stories. You said you loved the classic Claremont/Byrne era of X-Men, and one thing those beauties weren't was decompressed. They were PACKED with action, characters and subplots. I hope your inspiration for your run is on these classics, which means NO DECOMPRESSION!!!

I third David R & Fishtaco. Please do not decompress the Uncanny X-Men stories!. Story decompression ruins even the good stories into bland, mediocre stories.

[DDM]

True but it's a year long arc that deals with the rise and fall of the Shi'ar. That's epic right there.

Not if story decompression is involved. Astonishing X-Men is basically publishing 3 issue arcs into 6 issue arcs. Brubaker's 12 issue storyline may really just be 6 or a 4 issue arc stretched into 12 issues.

[Daithi]

Not if story decompression is involved. Astonishing X-Men is basically publishing 3 issue arcs into 6 issue arcs. Brubaker's 12 issue storyline may really just be 6 or a 4 issue arc stretched into 12 issues.

It's possible but it's not like it would any different to what Claremont did recently. Wand'ring Star was a three issue arc with the second issue being almost a rehash of the first issue. Plus there is no way the Savage Land story should have being 5 issues long. I'm not fond of decompression (HommmmmmM) but if I get decent character moments and a compelling story I'm happy.

However we can't judge his first issue and go "he's using decompression, shun him". The first issue will largely be exposition heavy in order to set up the players and the story line.

[Will.S]

Agreed. Mr. Brubaker, please break Marvel's current tradition of decompression. Limit the amount of multi-page spreads (and single page spreads, too), and pack in as many subplots as possible. You seem quite knowledgeable in regards to the X-Men, so I would think you have read the so-called Wilderness Era (UXM 253-269). Look at how many different stories were also going on at the same time. There were things happening all over the X-universe (Savage Land, Muir, destroyed Xavier Institute, Morlock Alley, Outback, Cairo, Genosha, Madripoor, Shiar Space). Use as many different villains at the same time as possible, try scattering the team and using more and more characters, etc. Thanks.
Yeah, lets tell writers how to write stories.

[DDM]

Yeah, lets tell writers how to write stories.

He's not telling writers "how to write stories." Story decompression is a marketing tool for comic book trade paperbacks (TPB). However, stories specifically turned into TPB format usually turns a stellar story into a bland one because of the story decompression.

[Ed Brubaker]

You guys should just wait and read the issues for yourselves.

I don't think a lot of people grasp the difference between pacing and decompression.

When a comic has 9 to 11 scenes, over 22 pages, that's not decompression, that's using and exploring the characters, and moving the story along at its proper pace. Those old X-Men issues, which I've read a lot of lately, had a lot of stuff going on in them, but they also dragged out subplots for years at a time.

Anyway, I'm just writing the way I always do, trying to let the characters tell the story and make sure there are lots of great action moments there, and that none of it goes the way the readers expect. I hope you'll all dig it.

[Doom Hammer]

Not if story decompression is involved. Astonishing X-Men is basically publishing 3 issue arcs into 6 issue arcs. Brubaker's 12 issue storyline may really just be 6 or a 4 issue arc stretched into 12 issues.

It's called characterization. It is often subtle, and takes time. It is the way of the future.

Yeah, lets tell writers how to write stories.

For sure. It's not too arrogant, now is it?

[Affinity]

I've only heard good things about his first issue so far, and the art is tolerable for Tan, so...I agree with Ed, let's wait for the issues themselves.

[Brian M.]

Me so horny for this arc.

[david r]

When a comic has 9 to 11 scenes, over 22 pages, that's not decompression, that's using and exploring the characters, and moving the story along at its proper pace.

I agree, there is a difference between pacing and decompression. 9 to 11 scenes in a comic is not decompression.

Those old X-Men issues, which I've read a lot of lately, had a lot of stuff going on in them, but they also dragged out subplots for years at a time.

Hey, reading those classics is always fun! But to the point, I wouldn't consider "dragging out subplots for years" a decompression tool. Or even a negative thing. I even think it became a staple of great X-Men stories having subplots that went on for awhile. It separated X-Men from all the other Marvel books back then and made it unique.

Anyway, I'm just writing the way I always do, trying to let the characters tell the story and make sure there are lots of great action moments there, and that none of it goes the way the readers expect. I hope you'll all dig it.

After reading the preview online, I had a sigh of relief. I have a problem with how writers sometimes "interpret" the X-Men. As in their dialogue. Again, it goes back to Chris Claremont and his characterization. I felt that from what I've read so far (preview and "Deadly Genesis"), that Ed Brubaker understands these characters, respects them and understands their individual "voice".

I respect that a lot. I've sometimes seen the X-Men "dumbed down", and am glad that Ed Brubaker is not taking that route. He gets their "voices" right. And to me, that is important.

[Ed Brubaker]

If you're doing it right (and none of us are ALWAYS doing it right) the charaters voices sort of speak for themselves.

One thing I really noticed when rereading Uncanny 94 thru to about 175 or so, was how little action there was in the book compared to these days of widescreen chaos. Some of the Claremont/Byrne issues had only 4 or 5 pages of action, and most of those would be 7 to 9 panels on the page. I don't think modern comics fans would like that so much. We're all so used to those great big wow moments nowadays.

[david r]

One thing I really noticed when rereading Uncanny 94 thru to about 175 or so, was how little action there was in the book compared to these days of widescreen chaos. Some of the Claremont/Byrne issues had only 4 or 5 pages of action, and most of those would be 7 to 9 panels on the page. I don't think modern comics fans would like that so much. We're all so used to those great big wow moments nowadays.

Yes, in thinking back, you are right. The classics weren't page-by-page action sequences. But what they filled those other pages with was wonderful characterization. So if you're X-Men run will be wonderful characterization with some "great big wow moments"---I think you'll be making many fans happy here!

When I heard you were sending your X-Men team on a year-long adventure into outer space, I wondered if you were a fan of those earlier X-Men epics. You know, like when Claremont/Byrne sent the X-Men on a journey to the Savage Land, Japan, Canada, etc. from #113-121. Or the extended Brood epic from Uncanny X-Men #162-166.

Are you a fan of these as well?

[mike626]

Im looking forward to Brubakers run on Uncanny even though I think his run maybe retconned like Morisson's when he left the book.

[Brian M.]

Yes, in thinking back, you are right. The classics weren't page-by-page action sequences. But what they filled those other pages with was wonderful characterization. So if you're X-Men run will be wonderful characterization with some "great big wow moments"---I think you'll be making many fans happy here!

When I heard you were sending your X-Men team on a year-long adventure into outer space, I wondered if you were a fan of those earlier X-Men epics. You know, like when Claremont/Byrne sent the X-Men on a journey to the Savage Land, Japan, Canada, etc. from #113-121. Or the extended Brood epic from Uncanny X-Men #162-166.

Are you a fan of these as well?


Well he said he reread from 94-175 recently and Fishtaco before you complain that probably doesn't mean he hasn't read past 175 so cool it. I loved the pacing of DG and I think this run will be great.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Ed Brubaker its cool to see you posting at CBR. In fact I'm really pumped for your run and Carey's. The meter has been raised with the job Yost and Kyle are doing in New X-Men. So I can see you 2 puttin the balls to the wall and bringing it. ( wonders if theres friendly wagers on who can bring the GOODS each month ? ;) )


Now just some stupied thinking. I'm a Havok fan. Chuck Austen made me a Havok fan when he took charge and became the leader. He wasn't Cyclops little brother anymore. He was Alex f'n Summers and those guys had better listen .

Then the creator ( who shall not be named) took a loyal crap on him. Will Alex be the leader he was and can be under your direction ? I really would love to see Alex Summers taking that leadership role.

Also can we please not see the Havok/Polaris thing anymore. My god thats awful. I really miss Lorna being that wildcard , batsshit insane at times character she was at one time. How she'd flip out and go off . She really had a wild edge to her. Can we see that again ?

Plus I really like Warpath and I'm happy to see him in your run. My last crazy question is....


Can we see DEADPOOL join ? I'm a HUGE DEADPOOL fan and think of the hilarious fun Wade Wilson can bring to the X-Mansion ! In fact with Cable there...he could tag along. Deadpool can be the wacky insane Gym Teacher from hell ! :evilsmile ;)

[Frank]

I have to say to say if Ed wanted Havok and Polaris because he was a fan of the Neil Adams run, how about returning them back to their original outfits? I always felt Havok had the best costume in comics. And how about those little skulls on Polaris outfit...creepy but cool.

[Sentinel K]

Can we see DEADPOOL join ? I'm a HUGE DEADPOOL fan and think of the hilarious fun Wade Wilson can bring to the X-Mansion ! In fact with Cable there...he could tag along. Deadpool can be the wacky insane Gym Teacher from hell ! :evilsmile ;)

You're asking the wrong writer dude.

Ask Carey.

In fact I already have. He wont be appearing unless, he stays for another year. And even then it was a 'maybe'.

[DDM]

I have to say to say if Ed wanted Havok and Polaris because he was a fan of the Neil Adams run, how about returning them back to their original outfits? I always felt Havok had the best costume in comics. And how about those little skulls on Polaris outfit...creepy but cool.


The skulls were removed when Lorna Dane joined the X-Men.

[Daithi]

I'm slightly curious as to why Rachel would join with Xavier. Yes she has a history with the Shi'ar, but considering that DoFP seems to be happening for real would she really leave her friends and family at this time.

[Brian M.]

I'm slightly curious as to why Rachel would join with Xavier. Yes she has a history with the Shi'ar, but considering that DoFP seems to be happening for real would she really leave her friends and family?

See I see the opposite, I think it's obvious why. 1) They need a TP. 2) Its the Shi'ar and she don't like them all too much so why not go up there and beat the shit out of them. 3) Vulcan is her Uncle.

[Daithi]

See I see the opposite, I think it's obvious why. 1) They need a TP. 2) Its the Shi'ar and she don't like them all too much so why not go up there and beat the shit out of them. 3) Vulcan is her Uncle.

However she's not going to beat the crap out of the Shi'ar. She decided against that. Plus she's going up there to apparently save the Shi'ar. Vulcan may be her uncle but she's far closer to Nathan. I don't have a problem at all with Rachel leaving but it would be nice to see raise her concerns about the Civil War.

[Brian M.]

However she's not going to beat the crap out of the Shi'ar. She decided against that. Plus she's going up there to apparently save the Shi'ar. Vulcan may be her uncle but she's far closer to Nathan. I don't have a problem at all with Rachel leaving but it would be nice to see raise her concerns about the Civil War.

yea, but you can't tell me she isn't the least bit hoping she'll get to destory some Shi'ar.

[jarrod]

Now just some stupied thinking. I'm a Havok fan. Chuck Austen made me a Havok fan when he took charge and became the leader. He wasn't Cyclops little brother anymore. He was Alex f'n Summers and those guys had better listen .

Then the creator ( who shall not be named) took a loyal crap on him. Will Alex be the leader he was and can be under your direction ? I really would love to see Alex Summers taking that leadership role.
From interviews, I've gathered that Kurt was going to be field leader on the team, which makes more sense I'd think, given he had a much longer, more successful run as leader of Excalibur (with a particularly nice proactive period under Warren Ellis... in some ways his Excalibur seemed like a test ground for concepts and themes that would be eventually be crystallized in The Authority). Kurt's led the X-Men, Excalibur and the X.S.E. successfully, he's more than qualified.

Also being a big Alex Summers fan myself, I've always felt writers following Claremont and David have sort of missed what goes to the core of the character, instead opting to make him out as a less capable imitation Scott Summers with some "little brother complex".

Alex isn't really anything like Scott when you get down to it. He's an intellectual, not a soldier. He felt duty bound to the X-Men but never wanted to be one like Scott did. He also felt duty bound to Madelyne, unlike Scott. He's not a natural leader or strategist, but he's good and creative solutions and thinking outside the box. PAD's X-Factor run was particularaly good at bringing this to light (paying off Random rather than continuing a losing battle for example). He's always been somewhat afraid of his comsic fueled abilities too, much less confident than Scott in that area. On the other hand he's always been more confident in real life situations, in fact I've always felt he was one of the few X-Men who could really lead a productive life outside the team (he's one of the few who's actually tried before)... quite unlike Scott who's really needed Xaiver's vision to make a place for himself in the world.

I guess that's why I've always liked Alex more, he always felt more like a normal guy who just happened to wind up as an X-Man.

[Daithi]

yea, but you can't tell me she isn't the least bit hoping she'll get to destory some Shi'ar.

Given Wand'ring Star, no I can't see her wanting to kill the Shi'ar. If she didn't kill the ones who actually killed her family, I can't see her killing "innocents".

[jarrod]

Given Wand'ring Star, no I can't see her wanting to kill the Shi'ar. If she didn't kill the ones who actually killed her family, I can't see her killing "innocents".
Well, the fear of slaughter is what ultimately drove the Shi'ar to annihilation of the Grey genome... Rachel's wise beyond her years in realizing that and resolving to break the cycle. Still, I suspect she'll get her vengeance on Lilandra and the others responsible for the murder of her family, even without killing.

[fishtaco]

Given Wand'ring Star, no I can't see her wanting to kill the Shi'ar. If she didn't kill the ones who actually killed her family, I can't see her killing "innocents".She helped murder thousands of innocent people...

[Daithi]

She helped murder thousands of innocent people...

As a hound? Because mind control doesn't count. Even still as Wand'ring Star showed, Rachel has grown and is not stuck in her DoFP survivor mode or her insane Phoenix mode anymore.

[Brian Cronin]

Just stick to discussion of your speculation of Ed's upcoming run. Hold on to the discussion of the actual issue (for those of you who have read preview copies) until this Thursday, so everybody can play. :)

-Brian

[fishtaco]

As a hound? Because mind control doesn't count. Even still as Wand'ring Star showed, Rachel has grown and is not stuck in her DoFP survivor mode or her insane Phoenix mode anymore.That wasn't "mind control", but whatever.

Anyway, I'll be reading Brubaker's book, but I honestly can't see myself sticking with it after 2 or 3 issues.

[Hi-Fi]

That wasn't "mind control", but whatever.

Anyway, I'll be reading Brubaker's book, but I honestly can't see myself sticking with it after 2 or 3 issues.


Even if you like it?

[Brian M.]

Even if you like it?

How can you read something that doesn't exist?

[Daithi]

That wasn't "mind control", but whatever.


Okay. It was a kid who was taken from her home, drugged and tortured for almost a year. It mighn't have been mind control in the cheesy Shadow King sense but it was mind control in the worst, physical sense.

[DDM]

Okay. It was a kid who was taken from her home, drugged and tortured for almost a year. It mighn't have been mind control in the cheesy Shadow King sense but it was mind control in the worst, physical sense.

No, Rachel Summer was brainwashed & tortured with a combination of drugs & reprogramming. All Hounds were given facial tattoos to mark them as property of the government. As a result, Rachel's memory remained fragmented & her powers of Phoenix were never realized until she traveled to the present. Still, Rachel remained very bitter towards mankind. Rachel's Hound programming scarred her soul. Just reread Uncanny X-Men #184-209. Rachel's expression as Phoenix was a red costume. It was a harbinger of things to come as her role as Phoenix...

[Daithi]

No, Rachel Summer was brainwashed & tortured with a combination of drugs & reprogramming. All Hounds were given facial tattoos to mark them as property of the government. As a result, Rachel's memory remained fragmented & her powers of Phoenix were never realized until she traveled to the present. Still, Rachel remained very bitter towards mankind. Rachel's Hound programming scarred her soul. Just reread Uncanny X-Men #184-209. Rachel's expression as Phoenix was a red costume. It was a harbinger of things to come as her role as Phoenix...

That's exactly what I said. It wasn't the Shadow King just mind controlling her (True Friends and the originals in NEX) but she was brainwashed through the drugs and torture, etc.

[Christopher O]

That wasn't "mind control", but whatever.
It amounts to the same tired cliche.

[jarrod]

"Mind control" can certainly be achieved without Omega level telepathy. It routinely is in the real world actually, I'd say the conditioning Rachel went through in the Hound program definitely qualifies.

[Daithi]

It amounts to the same tired cliche.

In fairness it wasn't a tired cliche when Claremont made Rachel a hound. It's just he keeps on using mind control.

If there's one thing I don't want from Brubacker's Uncanny it's mind control.

[Trusty Mutsi]

Over the last five years, while I have liked the Uncanny book, none of the stories really resonated or stuck with me. Basically, all the writers have been average to good, not really amazing. By the end of Bru's run, do you think he'll be remembered as one of those amazing writers who really contributed something to a book or will he just be in the average/good category?

I haven't REALLY anjoyed any X-Men writers since Lobdell left. I haven't HATED them. They just haven't moved the book back to where it was in my own personal list.

Joe Kelly came close, but then something happened to his writing where it just didn't click with me anymore. I like his character moments, and scripting, but his overall story arcs are where things drag for me.

[fishtaco]

Okay. It was a kid who was taken from her home, drugged and tortured for almost a year. It mighn't have been mind control in the cheesy Shadow King sense but it was mind control in the worst, physical sense.They broke her down. Rachel is stubborn, but she has her limits. Also, Rachel herself thinks that what she did was (partially) her fault, and that's what really matters. Still, Rachel remained very bitter towards mankindShe was in Uncanny X-Men #196, but for the most part she wasn't. This is what I find so incredible about the character. Despite everything that has happened to her, she still was able to forgive and try to fight for mutant rights as an X-Man, not a member of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. It reminds me of what Anne Frank once said in her diary. I don't memorize the quote precisely, but she said (paraphrasing) that while human beings murder others without mercy or hesitation, she still believes that everybody has some good in them. She didn't believe in pure evil.

This ties in to what Rachel said about the Phoenix Force in Uncanny X-Men #199. While the Shiar were all convinced that the Phoenix is the end of all that is, Rachel says, "They call you the chaos bringer-- they say that Phoenix was evil-- that your power was too terrible to be controlled-- and your human spirit too weak to withstand it's temptation. I say that's wrong. I'm your daughter-- firstborn and only child-- and I claim the power and the name Phoenix...that are mine by right. My people-- mutantkind-- are threatened by the forces of prejudice and race hatred-- hust as my world...."

A person with so many scars (literally and figuratively) possessing a massive amount of power like the Phoenix is scary as hell. If Jean, who never experienced what Rachel did, couldn't handle the Phoenix, then how could Rachel? That was a serious gamble. [QUOTE]Yeah, thanks for the contribution.

[Daithi]

They broke her down. Rachel is stubborn, but she has her limits. Also, Rachel herself thinks that what she did was (partially) her fault, and that's what really matters.


Well this happens after 1991 but:
Kitty: Ahab had total control over you, you weren't responsible.
Rachel: I know that. Now.


A person with so many scars (literally and figuratively) possessing a massive amount of power like the Phoenix is scary as hell. If Jean, who never experienced what Rachel did, couldn't handle the Phoenix, then how could Rachel?

I think Rachel's expierence allowed her to handle the Phoenix better than Jean could. In a sense destroying a star is nothing to what Rachel felt she did as a hound. She already went through a Dark Rachel mode. I also love when she became Phoenix and gave this speech:

My people -- mutantkind-- are threatened by the forces of prejudice and race hatred...just as my world is threatened by the Beyonder. I mean to safeguard them both.

[Bobster777]

I haven't REALLY anjoyed any X-Men writers since Lobdell left. I haven't HATED them. They just haven't moved the book back to where it was in my own personal list.

Joe Kelly came close, but then something happened to his writing where it just didn't click with me anymore. I like his character moments, and scripting, but his overall story arcs are where things drag for me.
Yeah, that's basically how I felt. I mean, when Morrison was doing New X-men, I felt emotionally connected to what was happening with the book. However, on Uncanny, I just haven't got that connection for a long while. I really think this will change during Bru's run. If Deadly Genesis is any indication, then I know I will stick around for every issue he writes.

[DDM]

They broke her down. Rachel is stubborn, but she has her limits. Also, Rachel herself thinks that what she did was (partially) her fault, and that's what really matters. She was in Uncanny X-Men #196, but for the most part she wasn't. This is what I find so incredible about the character. Despite everything that has happened to her, she still was able to forgive and try to fight for mutant rights as an X-Man, not a member of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. It reminds me of what Anne Frank once said in her diary. I don't memorize the quote precisely, but she said (paraphrasing) that while human beings murder others without mercy or hesitation, she still believes that everybody has some good in them. She didn't believe in pure evil.

This ties in to what Rachel said about the Phoenix Force in Uncanny X-Men #199. While the Shiar were all convinced that the Phoenix is the end of all that is, Rachel says, "They call you the chaos bringer-- they say that Phoenix was evil-- that your power was too terrible to be controlled-- and your human spirit too weak to withstand it's temptation. I say that's wrong. I'm your daughter-- firstborn and only child-- and I claim the power and the name Phoenix...that are mine by right. My people-- mutantkind-- are threatened by the forces of prejudice and race hatred-- hust as my world...."

A person with so many scars (literally and figuratively) possessing a massive amount of power like the Phoenix is scary as hell. If Jean, who never experienced what Rachel did, couldn't handle the Phoenix, then how could Rachel? That was a serious gamble.

Rachel Summers believes that Phoenix is a force of good. In taking the name of Phoenix, Rachel Summers is redeeming her past as a Hound & the original Phoenix's legacy.

Furthermore, Rachel's Hound conditioning may have helped her better control her vast cosmic powers as Phoenix. Unlike the previous Phoenix, Rachel has limits. Yes, her limits are pretty impressive, but still she is not omnipotent. Rachel has already experienced her dark side as a Hound. Yet the experience has left her bitter towards humanity. Rachel also has a definite case of survivor's guilt to add to her irrational behavior. Rachel Summers, as Phoenix, is trying to overcompensate for her past sins. To the other X-Men, Rachel seems to have lost her mind. Yet Rachel believed--as Phoenix--she is unbeatable & allowed to make her own rules. It's the primary reason she believes she could kill the Beyonder by almost destroying the universe or she could kill, Selene, the Black Queen of the Hellfire Club.

When Spiral strips Rachel Summers of her memories, Phoenix's bitterness is gone. You'll notice Phoenix is Excalibur is different from Phoenix in Uncanny X-Men. However, Phoenix still retains her killer instinct. She wants to kill the remaining Warwolves.

The original Phoenix's corruption into the Black Queen which causes her to become the insane Dark Phoenix is one of the main reasons why Rachel Summers never really goes over the abyss. She's come close. But she has never snapped from reality to the point that she too is Dark Phoenix. But I find it no accident Rachel Summers' original Phoenix costume is red & gold either, hinting of Rachel's dark side that is far more prominent than Jean's dark side ever was.

[Frank]

The skulls were removed when Lorna Dane joined the X-Men.

....but she had them when the new group of X-Men rescued the old group.

Anyway I love skulls. She WAS in Genosha, right. That`s fitting. :evilsmile