Question about Emma Frost [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

Jake V

06-28-2006, 09:32 PM

It hasn't been revealed yet.

So far, a popular theory is that Emma had some sort of nervous breakdown after Genosha was destroyed, and various destructive parts of her personality are being manifested in Cassandra Nova, Sebastian Shaw, Negasonic Teenage Warhead, and whoever the cloaked figure is.

That, or Whedon wants Emma to be evil so he can make the X-men exactly like they were back when he used to read the book. This way, he can create a situation for Kitty to do something cool (and make his crush on her even more obvious) and revive a status quo that's been dead for a decade or two.

Take your pick.

rilokyle

06-28-2006, 09:33 PM

To answer your question, I guess you could say she is currently betraying the X-Men. I Joss Whedon's current Astonishing X-Men arc, "Torn," it has been revealed that Cassandra Nova came to Emma before she destroyed Genosha, gave her her "second mutation", and kinda forced her it seems to inflitrate the X-Men for the time being. Emma, Cassandra, Sebastian Shaw, and some others have reformed the Hellfire Club and as of the latest issue (15), have disarmed all the X-Men. Of course, there's a catch. Emma wasn't supposed to fall in love with Scott, but she has, so it's essentially "Torn", no pun intended. It's all kinda confusing, and not everything has been revealed. I recommend picking up issues 12-15 for more information.

Me? I don't think she's actually going to betray the X-Men in the end. I think she's going to switch sides in the end and save the X-Men, but that's just my opinion. Hope that helps! :)

Hannah

06-28-2006, 10:08 PM

Thank you guys for all the info, I haven't really read a lot of X-Men stuff but I did pick up the first 3 Academy X TPB's with the 2 Astonishing X-Men one's.

Vaal

06-28-2006, 10:26 PM

That, or Whedon wants Emma to be evil
Well, she *is* evil. The question is 'is she traitorous'.

Jake V

06-28-2006, 10:31 PM

Well, she *is* evil. The question is 'is she traitorous'.
Depends on how you define evil. The character in Generation X and Morrison's New X-Men wasn't evil. I don't see why she has to reset to her 70's and 80's characterization after all she's been through up until this point.

Alan2099

06-28-2006, 10:37 PM

It seems Emma's been backsliding ever since Generation X ended.

Nick Kal

06-28-2006, 11:48 PM

Depends on how you define evil. The character in Generation X and Morrison's New X-Men wasn't evil. I don't see why she has to reset to her 70's and 80's characterization after all she's been through up until this point.

Oh she was so evil during Morrison's run.... Delisciously evil. That's why I love her!:)

ReaderX

06-29-2006, 01:41 AM

Foley

06-29-2006, 01:57 AM

I hope Emma turns out to betray them. I wanna see Cyclop lay the smack down on here and ship her out of the mansion :)

The Sword Is Drawn

06-29-2006, 02:03 AM

That, or Whedon wants Emma to be evil so he can make the X-men exactly like they were back when he used to read the book. This way, he can create a situation for Kitty to do something cool (and make his crush on her even more obvious) and revive a status quo that's been dead for a decade or two.

Or alternatively he just wants to end the Scott/Emma relationship, and kick her out of the x-men.

I'm sure he'd get a fair amont of support...:rolleyes:

Jake V

06-29-2006, 02:05 AM

Or alternatively he just wants to end the Scott/Emma relationship, and kick her out of the x-men.

I'm sure he'd get a fair amont of support...:rolleyes:
It's a possibility.

He's already proven to be into fanboy pandering.

Bobster777

06-29-2006, 02:10 AM

I hope Emma turns out to betray them. I wanna see Cyclop lay the smack down on here and ship her out of the mansion :)

Eh, that would be too easy for me. I think she would be the ultimate evil biotch if she betrayed the X-men in order to betray the Hellfire Club. Maybe complicated, but no one ever said she wasn't.

Foley

06-29-2006, 02:14 AM

Eh, that would be too easy for me. I think she would be the ultimate evil biotch if she betrayed the X-men in order to betray the Hellfire Club. Maybe complicated, but no one ever said she wasn't.

I kinda like that idea, but only if she still gets kicked out because no one trusts her anymore

Zombienorthstar

06-29-2006, 02:17 AM

Bobster777

06-29-2006, 02:20 AM

Emmas a bitch...thats different to being evil. Personally i love the idea that shes a bitch and still a good guy. I hate the idea that all the X-Men are all these likeable guys who get along. That's why i always enjoyed Morrisons characterisation of Cyclops.

Well, considering how Emma didn't try to prevent the masacre at Genosha, I would put her in the evil department (although she is good at times...dang what a parodox).

Zombienorthstar

06-29-2006, 02:24 AM

Well, considering how Emma didn't try to prevent the masacre at Genosha, I would put her in the evil department (although she is good at times...dang what a parodox).

Thats a big assumption...when that isnt founded yet...theres lots of reasons Emma might not have prevented it

1) That Nova conversation was wiped from her mind by Nova and placed in her subconcious

2) She simply didnt believe the crazy woman in the safari helmet (would you believe a perfect stranger if the told you your country was going to be wiped out??)

etc

Bobster777

06-29-2006, 02:42 AM

Thats a big assumption...when that isnt founded yet...theres lots of reasons Emma might not have prevented it

1) That Nova conversation was wiped from her mind by Nova and placed in her subconcious

2) She simply didnt believe the crazy woman in the safari helmet (would you believe a perfect stranger if the told you your country was going to be wiped out??)

etc

Oh yeah, good point. But then again, even if she was mindwiped, she should have been able to assume what Nova was going to do, yet she agreed to it. I mean, at the least, since NOva hated Prof X so much, she should have known that Nova was going to rain havoc on the team. ha ha, she is really teetering on the biotchy and evil line if this is the case.

Yoel

06-29-2006, 02:50 AM

I hope Emma turns out to betray them. I wanna see Cyclop lay the smack down on here and ship her out of the mansion :)

This would make me very happy.
I don't know why it is and it seems kinda silly, I didn't mind Emma in Generation X, but I can't stand her in the X-Men.

Foley

06-29-2006, 03:40 AM

The Sword Is Drawn

06-29-2006, 03:53 AM

I want to see cyclops single and remembering that he used to be a decent human being. It'd be even better if he would remember that he's the leader of the x-men and an excellent tactician. Right now all he remembers is that Emma will spank him if he doesn't do his chores.

You're not the only one. By any means.

I want Cyclops on his own again, for a good few years. He needs to reassert himself as a character in his own right.

Yoel

06-29-2006, 04:34 AM

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1487/1442/1600/free%20cyclops.jpg

Foley

06-29-2006, 04:46 AM

That rocks! :p

DDM

06-29-2006, 08:31 AM

Emmas a bitch...thats different to being evil. Personally i love the idea that shes a bitch and still a good guy. I hate the idea that all the X-Men are all these likeable guys who get along. That's why i always enjoyed Morrisons characterisation of Cyclops.

Given Emma Frost's past as the White Queen, there's no doubt she's evil. The question is has she really reformed?

Bobster777

06-29-2006, 01:47 PM

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1487/1442/1600/free%20cyclops.jpg

Ha ha, that's hilarious. Thanks for posting.

Vaal

06-29-2006, 02:16 PM

The crush on Kitty is just so blaringly obvious too. I hate Hate HATE the fact he gave her that Wolverine pose in the last issue. It just cheapens one of the best X-Men asskickings in the history of the book. "Now it's my turn!" Pfft whatever.
Yeah, only Wolverine should ever be able to kick ass. Nevermind that Kitty *is* a ninja -- Wolverine is the only important X-man.

This arc should end with Wolverine killing everyone. Not just the Hellfire Club, not just the people present, not just to people in the Marvel Universe -- EVERYONE.

Because he's the Wolverine.

Zombienorthstar

06-29-2006, 02:18 PM

Given Emma Frost's past as the White Queen, there's no doubt she's evil. The question is has she really reformed?

No....theres no doubt she was evil...

DDM

06-29-2006, 03:00 PM

No....theres no doubt she was evil...

The White Queen's reformation is a parallel to Xavier accepting the Shadow King, Apolcalypse, Selene, Mystique, Sabretooth & Sebastian Shaw among the X-Men. Frost is evil. Frost gave Storm almost a lobotomy in Uncanny X-Men #131 in trying to pry information from Ororo's brain. Frost switched bodies with Storm to infiltrate the X-Men. Frost created the "mindtap mechanism" which gave Mastermind artificial telepathy to use with his mutant illusion powers to successfully corrupt Phoenix into the Black Queen. The White Queen tried numerous times to brainwash Xavier's New Mutants plus Kitty Pryde into Hellions.

The White Queen's reformation is not quite the same as Rogue's.

Zombienorthstar

06-29-2006, 03:04 PM

The White Queen's reformation is a parallel to Xavier accepting the Shadow King, Apolcalypse, Selene, Mystique, Sabretooth & Sebastian Shaw among the X-Men. Frost is evil. Frost gave Storm almost a lobotomy in Uncanny X-Men #131 in trying to pry information from Ororo's brain. Frost switched bodies with Storm to infiltrate the X-Men. Frost created the "mindtap mechanism" which gave Mastermind artificial telepathy to use with his mutant illusion powers to successfully corrupt Phoenix into the Black Queen. The White Queen tried numerous times to brainwash Xavier's New Mutants plus Kitty Pryde into Hellions.

The White Queen's reformation is not quite the same as Rogue's.

Im not disagreeing with you that she was evil...however its prudent that all your examples are from like twenty years ago..since the character of Emma Frost has had an epiphany and changed her life...Pretty much all of Generation X was about her uneasy transition into being a good person...

tetragene

06-29-2006, 03:30 PM

I don't want Emma off the team. I think she reigns supreme as the queen bitch, but I don't think she's a "villain". She's a manipulator--she will manipulate her own teammates if she thinks it'll get the job done. I think that's what's happening here. She wouldn't have asked Cyke to put Kitty on the team if she assumed Kitty would be a threat (and she even states she wanted Kitty there to "watch" her) and she's had TOO big a role in x-books and other events for her to be made a villain again. I think she's here to stay.

oh...and I think it's high time a woman had Cyke whipped. He's the biggest douche in existance for what he did to Madelyne way back when. Period. I wouldn't be surprised if its revealed that a piece of Ms. Pryor is inhabiting Emma--fueling her ability (and desire) to p0wn Cyclops--evil is as evil does, you know ;)

riotgear

06-29-2006, 04:07 PM

Didn't she kill her older sister in GenX #75? I can't remember if she did or not.

Affinity

06-29-2006, 04:22 PM

Oh yeah, good point. But then again, even if she was mindwiped, she should have been able to assume what Nova was going to do, yet she agreed to it. I mean, at the least, since NOva hated Prof X so much, she should have known that Nova was going to rain havoc on the team. ha ha, she is really teetering on the biotchy and evil line if this is the case.
Imagine if she said "EAT GRASS, YOU SODDING OLD COW!" to Cassie? Cassie would whip around and turn Emma into a drooling vegetable. She was probably wondering how she could alert someone or stop Nova anyway, but the old b removed the incident from her memory (so that neither her, Jean, or the Professor could see it and so she could really believe she was pure again). And now its time to repay Nova.

If you think about it, Emma hasn't really DONE anything yet...she's in cahoots with the bad guys, but she hasn't snapped Kitty's neck or anything. The thing with Scott...let's just see how that turns out before we say she turned him into a vegetable.

Zombienorthstar

06-29-2006, 04:23 PM

Didn't she kill her older sister in GenX #75? I can't remember if she did or not.

Yep she did..after she engineered Synch's death...

I thinking doing evil things in the past doesnt make you evil now...

Affinity

06-29-2006, 04:42 PM

It was off panel, though, right?

fishtaco

06-29-2006, 04:55 PM

Yep she did..after she engineered Synch's death...

I thinking doing evil things in the past doesnt make you evil now...My problem with Emma Frost reforming involves the fact that she is too good of a villain, and the fact that she would actually care about something like Xavier's dream, or have any actual motivation to become the headmistress of Generation X.

Zombienorthstar

06-29-2006, 05:04 PM

My problem with Emma Frost reforming involves the fact that she is too good of a villain, and the fact that she would actually care about something like Xavier's dream, or have any actual motivation to become the headmistress of Generation X.

well her wanting to teach is all in character...its always been her ambition...

I dont think she ever expressed that she thought that mutants were better than humans even in her Hellfire days...she just thinks rich people are better...which to be fair doesnt conflict with Xaviers dream...

fishtaco

06-29-2006, 05:12 PM

well her wanting to teach is all in character...its always been her ambition...

I dont think she ever expressed that she thought that mutants were better than humans even in her Hellfire days...she just thinks rich people are better...which to be fair doesnt conflict with Xaviers dream...She doesn't think that anyone is better than anyone. She just wants power and control. When she was a *villain*, that is.

And I agree that if it made any sense at all, it made more sense for her to be a teacher than a regular X-Man. She has experience in...teaching.

Another thing I didn't like about Emma's reform is that there was just no build up. None. Look at all the build up Magneto's reformation took (Defenders (1st Series) 15-16, Uncanny X-Men #'s 104, 141, 150-200, New Mutants (1st Series) 21, 27-29, 35). Rogue's reformation didn't take that long, but that's because she was still technically a villain when she went to Xavier for help. She pretty much turned hero right away, because that was what was expected of her as long as she was dependent on Xavier for help.

Emma just...I don't know. She appeared in 1991, and then she didn't appear again until 1994-1995, and all of a sudden she wanted to make up for the things she did after learning that her Hellions were killed (despite her already fighting Trevor Fitzroy alongside the X-Men and the Hellions while they were all killed in Uncanny X-Men #281. Another continuity error on "Robert"'s part).

Zombienorthstar

06-29-2006, 05:16 PM

She doesn't think that anyone is better than anyone. She just wants power and control. When she was a *villain*, that is.

And I agree that if it made any sense at all, it made more sense for her to be a teacher than a regular X-Man. She has experience in...teaching.

Another thing I didn't like about Emma's reform is that there was just no build up. None. Look at all the build up Magneto's reformation took (Defenders (1st Series) 15-16, Uncanny X-Men #'s 104, 141, 150-200, New Mutants (1st Series) 21, 27-29, 35). Rogue's reformation didn't take that long, but that's because she was still technically a villain when she went to Xavier for help. She pretty much turned hero right away, because that was what was expected of her as long as she was dependent on Xavier for help.

Emma just...I don't know. She appeared in 1991, and then she didn't appear again until 1994-1995, and all of a sudden she wanted to make up for the things she did after learning that her Hellions were killed (despite her already fighting Trevor Fitzroy alongside the X-Men and the Hellions while they were all killed in Uncanny X-Men #281. Another continuity error on "Robert"'s part).

To be fair the first few years of Gen X was her reformation...she was still very much acting like the White Queen for the first few years...causing conflict with Banshee..until she softened.

And you have to be a elitist to a certain extent to be part of the Hellfire Club.

DDM

06-29-2006, 06:01 PM

To be fair the first few years of Gen X was her reformation...she was still very much acting like the White Queen for the first few years...causing conflict with Banshee..until she softened.

And you have to be a elitist to a certain extent to be part of the Hellfire Club.

Emma Frost is more than a simple elitist; she is the former White Queen of the Hellfire Club's secret Inner Circle, a leader of the 4 Lords Cardinal. She also had a romantic sexual relationship with Sebastian Shaw, the Black King hinted at in Uncanny X-Men #182.

Zombienorthstar

06-29-2006, 06:13 PM

Emma Frost is more than a simple elitist; she is the former White Queen of the Hellfire Club's secret Inner Circle, a leader of the 4 Lords Cardinal. She also had a romantic sexual relationship with Sebastian Shaw, the Black King hinted at in Uncanny X-Men #182.

I know who she is DDM...(patronise much?)

What i mean is in answer to the question 'why would she join Xaviers dream?' i retorted that she never showed any opinion that humans were inferior (a Magneto standpoint) but more that she was superior because of her wealth and power...

making her an elitist...and not someone who believes in mutant supremacy.

Mariah

06-29-2006, 06:39 PM

I love Emma as a hero, because she's funny, snarky, bitchy, and makes everyone seem inferior, which is totally in character. But when the Hellfire club was destroyed by the upstarts, when she came out of her coma(overdone much, she always ends up in a coma), she began to try a different path, much like Magneto did. How long did Gen X run? 6-7 years? That seems like enough time to come to a better way of thinking. But hey, that's just me.

DDM

06-29-2006, 06:45 PM

I know who she is DDM...(patronise much?)

What i mean is in answer to the question 'why would she join Xaviers dream?' i retorted that she never showed any opinion that humans were inferior (a Magneto standpoint) but more that she was superior because of her wealth and power...

making her an elitist...and not someone who believes in mutant supremacy.

Emma Frost wanted to rule the world via the Hellfire Club's Inner Circle. I don't think she has changed as much as you want her to believe she is at the time.