Crisis Killed The Plot Devices - Gods, Magic, Science, Time Travel, & Speed Force

[Mainline]

To a degree, Crisis was about removing the influence of the Gods, of high-end Magic, of Super-Science, of time travel, and even the Speed Force. They'll still exist, but they'll no longer be the "easy" solution to conflict and not be the "go to Plan A" in the backs of reader's minds.

1. Are there any forgotten staple Plot Devices? Is there something the next Crisis could be resolved by that they missed?

2. How do you feel about the reduction of influence of these plot devices?

[David Atkins]

2. How do you feel about the reduction of influence of these plot devices?

I feel that it was a good move. I did something similar in a fantasy story a friend of mine and I were working on, by having the lead character face off against a certain 'primordial evil' type character-- in the process, the chains of fate were destroyed, thus removing our ability to fall back on prophecy and the will of the Gods. In the long run, doing so forced us to do things creatively we never would have thought of doing beforehand.

[comicfreak]

Well, the old Plot-Devices may have been removed. But they've already added a new Plot-Device: The "Prime-Punch", better known as "Retcon-Punch". It's already responsible for the Re-animation of Jason Todd, and may or may not be resbonsible for Cassandra Cains Hell-turn, among other things.

[lead sharp]

In a Universe were they brought back Jason Todd, Hal Jordan and Ollie Queen there's no dramatic licence left. Removing the Plot Devices merely paves the way for new ones.

[Lex]

2. How do you feel about the reduction of influence of these plot devices?I don't believe all of the things you listed were permanently removed from the DCU, it does seem like Crisis temporarily killed some of the fun of the universe. I like the gods and time travel and wild, insane magic and other fun stuff like that.

If some of DC's writers don't want to use those things, then that's fine. But they shouldn't remove them completely from the universe (which I don't think is the case anyway). It's similar to my opinion on killing off characters who still have a lot of potential for good stories (Blue Beetle).

Anyway, I'm sure we'll see those fun elements pop back soon enough. I'd be surprised if the Paradise Island and Greek gods don't come back in the new Wonder Woman book.

[MythicBrawn]

If anything DC has added plot devices. The newest is of course Superboy-Prime being kept locked up by the Guardians. SBP will start the next crisis event at DC.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Yellow Fear Monsters..........

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Well, the old Plot-Devices may have been removed. But they've already added a new Plot-Device: The "Prime-Punch", better known as "Retcon-Punch". It's already responsible for the Re-animation of Jason Todd, and may or may not be resbonsible for Cassandra Cains Hell-turn, among other things.


Whoa....Cassandra Cain went bad ? Holy crap.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Whoa....Cassandra Cain went bad ? Holy crap.


You dont´want to hear the details, as far as character assassinations go, it´s really bad.

[David Atkins]

Yellow Fear Monsters..........

GAH! Pain! In my brain!

[JulianPerez]

I am pleased that the Speed Force is no longer in play.

The Flash's trademark, whether it be Wally or Barry, was attempts at scientific accuracy - you could learn a lot of science from Flash comics - and the whole semi-mystical aspects of the Speed Force run counter to this spirit.

Also, the Speed Force became a "Snake Oil" with poorly defined properties. Even by the terrifyingly low standards of a comic book world's rubber physics, statements like "I will leech the speed from those bullets" or "clothng or objects of solidified speed" imply a dysfunctional understanding of how the world works that borders on the demented.

[da noble savage]

I am pleased that the Speed Force is no longer in play.

The Flash's trademark, whether it be Wally or Barry, was attempts at scientific accuracy - you could learn a lot of science from Flash comics - and the whole semi-mystical aspects of the Speed Force run counter to this spirit.

Also, the Speed Force became a "Snake Oil" with poorly defined properties. Even by the terrifyingly low standards of a comic book world's rubber physics, statements like "I will leech the speed from those bullets" or "clothng or objects of solidified speed" imply a dysfunctional understanding of how the world works that borders on the demented.

well I like the speed force and i'm sure it well be back. It wasn't too bad and plus it's the flash the guy run's at light speed and get's trouble from a boomrang guy and a guy with a cold gun how scientificly accurate is that. Plus like it or not it's comeing back.

[Mainline]

I am pleased that the Speed Force is no longer in play.

The Flash's trademark, whether it be Wally or Barry, was attempts at scientific accuracy - you could learn a lot of science from Flash comics - and the whole semi-mystical aspects of the Speed Force run counter to this spirit.

Also, the Speed Force became a "Snake Oil" with poorly defined properties. Even by the terrifyingly low standards of a comic book world's rubber physics, statements like "I will leech the speed from those bullets" or "clothng or objects of solidified speed" imply a dysfunctional understanding of how the world works that borders on the demented.I disagree on both counts. Barry was ALWAYS junk science and the early attempt at science with Wally was embarassing as pointed out by Waid during his run, the numbers and analogies that attempted to explain their powers were as ridiculous as saying Superman's powers were like a grasshopper's strength. As for whether it'll be in play or not, we've yet to see... it seems that it will have less impact on the DCU (no Speed Force dump and no time/dimension travel), but still be the source of Bart's powers/speed.

Outside of constructs, everything else about the Speed is extremely consistent and demonstrates a clear understanding of metaphysics, frames of reference, and so on. Speed is purely arbitrary based on one's frame of reference, if the Speed Force is- literally an extradimensional force- what allows speedsters to move things in and out of different frames of reference this is infinitely more scientifically plausible than running on air-cushions, knocking down bullets with air-punches, walking on clouds, molecular control and/or vibrating through objects, arm whirlwinds, friction management, or matching speed with bullets to catch them all through mechanical means... all horrendous junk science to anyone with even a highschool physics background.

[Mainline]

If anything DC has added plot devices. The newest is of course Superboy-Prime being kept locked up by the Guardians. SBP will start the next crisis event at DC.
How? All of SBP's reality altering "abilities" came from hitting things in Alex Luthor's pocket universe... which apparently even E2 Supes could affect, so really it's less about a pre-Crisis emo teen and more about a nexus of past realities.

Put another way, how do you expect the Superboy punch to show up and resolve a future or on-going event? It's in the past. It's like me saying that the gods will solve the next problem despite their departure. A NEW plot device would have to be a new "go to Plan A" to resolve some conflict, but if anything SBP provides said conflict, not solves it.

Giant Yellow Space Bugs is a valid example only in the sense that it seems writers are free to create plot devices at will, however, again that specific one is in the past and I doubt there will be very many Giant Yellow Space Bugs popping up anytime soon... this is hardly the kind of plot device that can be used repetitively like Gods, time-travel, super-science, etc. Even if Parallax is a blatant plot-device, he/she/it's largely a one-time-use-only device.

Again, let me stress that the point was not to remove plot-devices but to remove ones that sit in the back of the reader's mind wondering why this or that wasn't resorted to from the beginning. So do any devices remain that can be used with repetition?