Claremont's Best Story/Arc/Moments of his recent Uncanny run?

[The Fury]

Claremont's most recent run on Uncanny X-men has finished. Claremont is soon to take over Exiles and continue writing New Excalibur. I wish himgood health for the future.

But what in your view was the Best story or moment of his most recent run on Uncanny. From #444 to #474 and 1 Annual. (although sadly due to ill health he was unable to finish his final issue himself).

Such moments included, the return of many characters, death of many as well. Character development across his characters.

So what are your favourite moments?

[Affinity]

I liked when Chris Bachalo came back to the X-Men.

I looooooooved the Chris/Olivier Coipel arc. That entire thing was fun. Viper, Murderworld, some cameo by an old Excalibur guy I think, funky plot, gorgeous art. Yeah, awesome.

[Brian M.]

End of Greys. I loved that arc.

[david r]

I loved the first ten issues, from #444-454. I thought that was the best part of his Return Engagement and felt all the pieces were in place for another classic Claremont epic.

I enjoyed the collaboration with Claremont and Alan Davis, but their work together never quite reached the levels of greatness it could have.

The return of Psylocke and subsequent Savage Land story were somewhat underwhelming. I expected more from a Savage Land tale by Chris Claremont.

I felt #461 (the X-Babies, Mojo &Spiral Story) were the nadir of his run. A real lowpoint for me. Horribly unfunny. The House of M issues were better, but still felt like they went nowhere.

"End of Greys" was far better IMO, and the last great moment for Claremont's return. I think after Rachel's family got slaughtered, the rest of the run just did not live up to my expectations. So much was left unresolved, or disatisfying.

[Bobster777]

End of Greys. I loved that arc.

Yeah, that's the only arc that really stuck with me.

[Zombienorthstar]

The slaughter of the Greys in Uncanny was monumental and i truly wonder if any other writer could have got away with it.

That last panel with Rachel all flame eyed...it made me love Marvel Girl...and gave me chills.

[Daithi]

Best
Grey's End: While this in all fairness just rehases past events in Rachel's life (the slaughter of her family and her branding) it's done with style. The final panel of Rachel was great. Nice cameo by Jean also. Unfortunately the aftermath never lived up to it.

The End of History: A nice "introduction" arc that gave all the members a chance to shine let down by the horrid care bear moment at the end. You mean Rachel creating a black hole isn't enough?

Wand'ring Star: Just the first issue though. In it Claremont proves that he knows, gets and can write Rachel. The final panel with Rachel completely outsmarting the Sentinels with the line "just like old times". Sigh.

Worst
The Savage Land arc. Save for Psylocke's characterization (accompanied by X23) and Davis's art, this was horrid. Way too long also.

[Zombienorthstar]

Has anyone got a scan of that splash page with Rachel all vengeancy?

[ibrakeforchinwe]

Rachel creating the black hole to trap the Fury.

Rachel and Kurt training in the danger room(throwback to Excalibur's crosstime caper) and then having a smooch.

Season of the Witch arc with Captain Britain, Meggan, Roma and Saturnyne.

[DDM]

Uncanny X-Men #444-459: Chris Claremont & Alan Davis really brought back the book to its roots. Claremont is trying his best to unify the fractured Marvel Universe as he attempts to tie other books into his own; however, the editors own apathy & lack of Marvel Universe knowledge brought down the book, although this is not Chris Claremont's fault. Psylocke's return is wonderful since Claremont hinted Betsy would return at some since X-Treme X-Men #4. Again, I believe alot of the fault belongs solely with the X-Men editors. Chris Claremont's "Season of the Witch" did more for House of M than House of M. I hate Alan Davis left in the middle of this arc...


I did not care for the last few issues of Uncanny X-Men; however, this may be due to Chris Claremont's illness. Alot of unresolved issues are still not resolved. I was also hoping Psylocke would regain her telepathy & Rachel Summers would revert to her default Phoenix form.

[Hi-Fi]

I really enjoyed the first arc, End of History.

The House of M issues were ok.

That is all.

[Will.S]

End of Greys. I loved that arc.
Agreed, best arc he's done in a long time.

I think the reason why was because it was risky, dark, and still made us root for Rachel and the X-Men and not to mention it was Chris's best work so far regarding clear action scenes. That issue where it all took place within a timed sequence was great as well as I haven't really seen anything like it.

[Brian M.]

Agreed, best arc he's done in a long time.

I think the reason why was because it was risky, dark, and still made us root for Rachel and the X-Men and not to mention it was Chris's best work so far regarding clear action scenes. That issue where it all took place within a timed sequence was great as well as I haven't really seen anything like it.


Also it gave Rachel a purpose. She's the last one. The last Grey. The Shi'ar came in and murdered everyone and she couldn't stop it. The character development alone in that arc is enough to setup potential stories for Rachel for years. It also takes her away from the," I'm from a horrible future" storyline. From the solicits it sounds like Brubaker will be playing on this.

[Daithi]

Also it gave Rachel a purpose. She's the last one. The last Grey. The Shi'ar came in and murdered everyone and she couldn't stop it. The character development alone in that arc is enough to setup potential stories for Rachel for years. It also takes her away from the," I'm from a horrible future" storyline. From the solicits it sounds like Brubaker will be playing on this.

Well she and Nathan are the last Greys. Plus instead of "I'm from a horrible future" it's "I'm living in a horrible present". :)

[david r]

Much praise for "End of Greys" and deservedly so. I felt that the follow-up, "Wand'ring Star", was a major disappointment. I still feel that "Wand'ring Star" was planned as a space epic, with Rachel heading into furthest space to seek revenge on the Sh'iar. With the Uncanny team after her.

Instead, for reasons unknown, "Wand'ring Star" was completely altered, and we got a rather anti-climactic finish to "End of Greys". Just read Rachel's words on the last page of UXM #468, and think about the title "Wand'ring Star". A lot more was meant to come out of that massacre.

[Affinity]

No one liked the second arc with Viper?

[Will.S]

Much praise for "End of Greys" and deservedly so. I felt that the follow-up, "Wand'ring Star", was a major disappointment. I still feel that "Wand'ring Star" was planned as a space epic, with Rachel heading into furthest space to seek revenge on the Sh'iar. With the Uncanny team after her.

Instead, for reasons unknown, "Wand'ring Star" was completely altered, and we got a rather anti-climactic finish to "End of Greys". Just read Rachel's words on the last page of UXM #468, and think about the title "Wand'ring Star". A lot more was meant to come out of that massacre.
That's one of the reasons why I totally can't wait for Brubaker's run as it follows her into the epic follow-up I think we all wanted to see. Plus Bru mentioned that link with the Shi'ar from what Claremont had established recently.

[Affinity]

Yeah, in his interview in Wizard, Brubaker was like "Everyone expects me to just ignore what Claremont did, but that's not what I want to do." He said it's a main reason why Rachel is on the team, because of what Claremont set up and didn't get to finish.

I guess since his whole DG plot had to do with the Shi'ar, Brubaker figured he'd take out two birds with one stone.

[Zombienorthstar]

Has no one got that panel????

[Will.S]

Has no one got that panel????
*sigh*

If it makes you happy:

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/402/rachelpissed8nm.jpg

[xmanson]

I think the plans agiant the Shiar never came to fruit because he was off the title, so we had some minor thing with the Commandos and moved on to the Psylocke thing.

[Zombienorthstar]

*sigh*

If it makes you happy:

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/402/rachelpissed8nm.jpg

Dude it does....

...

whatever can i offer you in return kind sir?

[xmanson]

I really enjoyed End of Greys. Hated the HC arc.

The x-babies thing was pretty average, but come one.. it was a single issue, so it didn't bother me.

[Will.S]

Dude it does....

...

whatever can i offer you in return kind sir?
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/3028/tim_as_darkness.jpg

"YOUR SOUL! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!"

[Brian M.]

Much praise for "End of Greys" and deservedly so. I felt that the follow-up, "Wand'ring Star", was a major disappointment. I still feel that "Wand'ring Star" was planned as a space epic, with Rachel heading into furthest space to seek revenge on the Sh'iar. With the Uncanny team after her.

Instead, for reasons unknown, "Wand'ring Star" was completely altered, and we got a rather anti-climactic finish to "End of Greys". Just read Rachel's words on the last page of UXM #468, and think about the title "Wand'ring Star". A lot more was meant to come out of that massacre.

Wand'ring Star should have been 1 issue maybe 2. It was completely anti-climatic.

[Daithi]

Wand'ring Star should have been 1 issue maybe 2. It was completely anti-climatic.

Also very bait and switch. We have two (three if you count the last issue in Grey's End) with Rachel saying "I will kill the Shi'ar" then nothing. Plus it has this weird moment where Rachel starts trying to kick a warskrull.

I liked some of the Viper arc but the whole "Sage has planned everything from the start" really wears thin. Great art though.

[Cowlander]

End of Greys and the Murderworld arc were the highlights.

[Faded]

The first half (or so) of End of Greys and the 2/3 of the Chasing Hellfire arc were the only issues I truly enjoyed.

[david r]

Yeah, in his interview in Wizard, Brubaker was like "Everyone expects me to just ignore what Claremont did, but that's not what I want to do." He said it's a main reason why Rachel is on the team, because of what Claremont set up and didn't get to finish.


Wow, if that is true, this is good news.

But how could the editors ever allow it? It would mean the stories would run smoothly together, and it's their job to muck that up. :mad:

[Stephane Garrelie]

My favorites are probably the Savage Land arc, "Wandering Star" and the HofM tie in. Followed by End of History and End of the Greys + the Hellfire club arc.

The Mojo arc was fun but average, and i didn't like the "Viper's cheap Murderworld" arc (eccepted the scenes at Brian's Manor.)

[david r]

I'd say Chris Claremont's best work since his return to X-Men has been:

True Friends
X-Treme X-Men #1-24, Annual #1, Intifada arc, Prisoner of Fire arc;
Mekanix
Uncanny X-Men #444-454, End of Greys arc;
First and last issue of Excalibur

[The Fury]

I, personally, enjoyed the First arc and HoM arc for fanboy reasons.

I did think the Savage Land arc was over stretched but was not bad like many are stating.

I really like the Hellfire arc and End of Greys.

Especially the 2nd issue of the Hellfire arc as one (if not the) best single issue of his run.

[Chiasm]

I've got mixed feelings on it.

Parts of his recent run were good and parts were really bad.

When he did the first issue of End of the Greys I got very excited and flashed back to the wonder I used to feel in the late 80's every time I read a CC Uncanny book. But the rest of the Grey's arc let me down. I was hoping to see Rachel wreaking all kind of havoc on the Shiar empire but it didn't happen. Perhaps Rachel and Gabriel can team up in Brubakers run.

Other parts were very very bad. Nothing can excuse Dino Rachel. That arc will go down as perhaps my least favorite CC arc ever.

[Keith_Martineau]

Overall I'm not that happy with his third stint on Uncanny X-Men, honestly.

It started off decently with the Fury. I wasn't too happy with the Viper arc, cause of the ridiculous ending. Then X-23 was shoehorned in for a couple issues. Then we had the Hellfire Club arc, which I enjoyed, but it could have been better, and I'm annoyed it can't be followed up on. Then things go bad. Despite my enjoyment on Psylocke's return, World's End was not good.
In hindsight, I think Claremont was building to something to explain the sudden appearance of a whole new race of dino's, but of course never got to follow up on it---so now as it stands, World's End is terrible and sticks out like a soar thumb.

Then things got good again. Fun Mojo arc. The HoM arc (which really, was kinda confusing.)
Then End of Grey's. Which had enormous potential. But it, and it's subsequent arc, Wand'ring Star, did nothing but infuriate me. 6 issues where all I wanted to see, was Rachel cut loose and kick some ass.
She didn't need to kill any of the commandos. Just BEAT SOME F'N ASS.
And she sees a shrink instead. Ugh.
Which brings us to the final arc. Meh. Yet another huge, cosmic force. Yet another lackluster conclusion. I'm largely unfamiliar with Jamie Braddock, and despite explaining who is he, and what happened when he got his powers, this arc did very very little to show me why I should give a damn.
I dug the annual though. I thought that was a good parting issue.

Overall my biggest problem with Claremonts 3rd run, is the weird tangents it goes on, such as the Murderworld arc, and the World's End arc, and the largely lackluster, unsatisfying endings to arcs like the Hellfire Club arc, and Grey's End.
For every awesome, fun development like X-23 having total envy of Psylocke, there is some ridiculous or disappointing moment like Rachel doing next to nothing about the death of her family.

[Cowlander]

*sigh*

If it makes you happy:

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/402/rachelpissed8nm.jpg
Is she crosseyed in this picture or is it just me?

[Faded]

Oh yeah...and I was really pushing for more Wicked. She held promise.

[fishtaco]

The only work that I really, really cared for by Claremont since his return in 1998 were Giant Sized X-Men 4, X-Men: True Friends 1-3.

Other stories that I found...interesting were Wolverine (2nd Series) 125-128, X-Men (2nd Series) 103-104, 108, New Excalibur 8, Uncanny X-Men 384-385, 455-459, X-Men: The End, X-Treme X-Men 20-23, 36-45, Annual 2001.

[Tennoarashi]

Honestly? What stuck out the most for me was the Ororo/Logan/Kurt triangle and interaction, especially with moments like Ororo and Kurt dancing, Ororo and Logan's date, and Kurt and Logan's talk in the coffee shop.

Characterization like that is what landed me in the X-Franchise and specifically to Mr. Claremont - so seeing those moments really made my day.

Oh, and Ororo VS. Alice Tremaine. That was pretty cool too.

Last but not least - Betsy in general. No one can write her like this man can, honestly. Come on - that narration bubble of 'Blah Blah Blah' - priceless.

[Mariah]

Last but not least - Betsy in general. No one can write her like this man can, honestly. Come on - that narration bubble of 'Blah Blah Blah' - priceless.
Sigh, if only everyone had a sense of who Betsy was like this man does, then she wouldn't have been slaughtered so in the 90's

[david r]

In hindsight, I think Claremont was building to something to explain the sudden appearance of a whole new race of dino's, but of course never got to follow up on it---so now as it stands, World's End is terrible and sticks out like a soar thumb.

Claremont actually didn't have to build to any explanation of these "evolved dinos". Just look into the past. That story came out of an Annual from the late 80s, where Garrokk the Petrified Man sacrifices himself to resurrect the Savage Land. His negative influence is what eventually corrupts the newly-formed dinosaurs. Claremont even hinted to this simmering subplot later on in Uncanny X-Men #275.

Overall my biggest problem with Claremonts 3rd run, is the weird tangents it goes on,

I can understand this problem. I think one main problem is "tangents" like the Hellfire Club, Grey's End, Jamie Braddock, X-Men flirtations, etc. I feel these "tangents" were never meant to be that, they were MEANT to lead to big stories. And for a variety of reasons (editorial, other writers desires, etc.) these tangents never lead to their desired outcomes. Claremont should get some blame, but the real blame is Marvel and green-lighting his stories, and then ending them way too soon. Only we constant readers suffer from this.

[Mariah]

Claremont actually didn't have to build to any explanation of these "evolved dinos". Just look into the past. That story came out of an Annual from the late 80s, where Garrokk the Petrified Man sacrifices himself to resurrect the Savage Land. His negative influence is what eventually corrupts the newly-formed dinosaurs. Claremont even hinted to this simmering subplot later on in Uncanny X-Men #275.

Actually, it came from Ms. Marvel issue #20. He just revisited it years later.

[sonofagun]

I very much enjoyed the last run by CC on uncanney. A few single issues may have disappointed me, but overall I felt like I could sit back, relax and enjoy some fun stories, and the characters were, for the most part act like themselves (Chris really gives them the right voice when he writes them).
I've read a little flack about him leaving dangling plotlines, or not "finishing" off his stories on this run. Take a look at his first run, the man would leave a plotline dangling for like 50 issues then bring it, along with like 12 other wandering stories, together and that would be one of those milestone issues that tons of things got resolved in an amazing manner. Personally I think that CC was probably building to this kind of thing, but got yanked before we got the "Big Reveal"
Favourite arc?
I'll go with the Fury one
Just found it really cool, and got me hooked again

[Affinity]

Oh, and Ororo VS. Alice Tremaine. That was pretty cool too.

Yeah, that was pretty cool.

Did Claremont come up with the whole British to Asian thing? Or was that something he was told to write or whatever?

[Mariah]

Yeah, that was pretty cool.

Did Claremont come up with the whole British to Asian thing? Or was that something he was told to write or whatever?
um...what? Are you talking about Psylocke? I'm pretty sure it was CC, as he wasn't getting bullied that bad in like 1990.

[Affinity]

Yeah, I should have clarified.

I'm not sure I still get that, the whole body swap. Off topic, though.

I think everyone agrees that this run had its good times and bad times, with an excellent beginning or so.

[david r]

Did Claremont come up with the whole British to Asian thing? Or was that something he was told to write or whatever?

If you mean Psylocke, it happened in Uncanny X-Men #256, back in 1989. I think it was a collaboration between him and Jim Lee. To spice up the character of Betsy Braddock.

[david r]

Also I really liked his X-Men #100 issue. The first one with the Neo. They DO kick some ass in this issue. Nearly killing Nightcrawler in the church, etc.

And the moment where Kitty Pryde "phases" an entire space shuttle was memorable.

[Siddon]

Not as good as Austens best not as bad as Austens worse if I where to grade it here how I would do it

444 B
445 B
446 C
447 D
448 B
449 B
450 C
451 C
452 C
453 F
454 D
455 B
456 C
457 F
458 D
459 F
460 A
461 B
462 B
463 B
464 C
465 D
466 A
467 C
468 C
469 C
470 C
471 B
472 B
473 C
474 B

[DDM]

Did Claremont come up with the whole British to Asian thing? Or was that something he was told to write or whatever?


Yes. Originally, Betsy's British body is transformed into an Asian one via Spiral's magicks from her Body Shoppe as shown in Uncanny X-Men #256. Claremont was going to transform Betsy back to her original body after Psylocke snapped out her brainwashing, but her Asian ninja form became more popular. Therefore, Claremont decided to keep Betsy's Asian body. Psylocke gains her heart's desire--to become the ultimate woman warrior--yet she pays a heavy price. It just goes to show you be careful what you wish for...

[DDM]

Actually, it came from Ms. Marvel issue #20. He just revisited it years later.

No, you're confusing X-Treme X-Men: Savage Land #1-4. The gamma irradiated reptiles evolved into sentient creatures. The sentient reptiles moved to Savage Land.

However, in Uncanny X-Men Annual #12, when the High Evolutionary restored the Savaga Land combines with the mystical links with Garrok, the Petrified Man, the High Evolutionary said he jumpstarted the dinosaurs. Kazar said the dinosaurs did not need any help because they are intelligent enough with any "help." As a result, the mutant humanoid Hauk'ka comes out of this result years later in Uncanny X-Men #455-459.

[Affinity]

Yes. Originally, Betsy's British body is transformed into an Asian one via Spiral's magicks from her Body Shoppe as shown in Uncanny X-Men #256. Claremont was going to transform Betsy back to her original body after Psylocke snapped out her brainwashing, but her Asian ninja form became more popular. Therefore, Claremont decided to keep Betsy's Asian body. Psylocke gains her heart's desire--to become the ultimate woman warrior--yet she pays a heavy price. It just goes to show you be careful what you wish for...
Ah, thank you. Cool lesson.

[AnthonyJ]

I felt that CC had a bunch of plot arcs which boiled down to 'good setup, poor resolution'. The last arc exemplifies all that: here CC has been setting something up for his entire run, and when it finally happens, it's just sort of 'meh'. End of Greys/Wand'ring Star was the same way. The whole XSE plotline was an interesting idea that went nowhere.

Part of this may be editorial interference, but you can't always blame the editors.

[fishtaco]

I wrote a lot about the Savage Land dinosaur plot in my X-journal.

Now, if I recall correctly, Ka-Zar mentioned to Rogue and Nick Fury in Uncanny X-Men #275 while they were on their way to rescue Magneto that when Garrok "sacrificed" himself to restore the Savage Land in Uncanny X-Men Annual #12 (first story), the newborn dinosaurs are already full grown and have offspring of their own. Ka-Zar says that the lightning fast evolution of dinosaurs in the Savage Land will lead to a rude awakening. On the last panel of that page, Jim Lee draws some dinos with evil looking red eyes.

I believe that this story would have come full circle after the time Claremont was going to resolve the plotline regarding Alexi Vahzin wanting Colossus to return to the Rodina and fight on his own personal mutant team. I believe that the evolved dinosaurs (I honestly don't know if they were going to be called the Hauk'ka) were going to purchase Storm off the market from Tullamore Voge and use her to create a massive storm to destroy the entire world, so the Hauk'ka can take it over. This would force the X-Men, who would have come to her rescue, along with the Savage Land Mutates (led by Brainchild, since Zaladane was killed), Ka-Zar, Nereel's tribe, and C'Jime's tribe to all work together to stop the dinosaurs from carrying out their machinations. Since the story in Uncanny X-Men #'s 455-459 was drawn by Alan Davis, the dinosaurs that we sorta saw in Uncanny X-Men #275 looked different. Alan Davis used the design that he did for that dino reality in Excalibur (1st Series) #51.

In conclusion in the story, I believe that Nereel was going to be killed, and therefore Peter Jr was going to be forced to join the X-Men as Kid Colossus (to replace Colossus after he left with Vahzin). The plotline with Storm and C'Jime (from Classic X-Men #22) was somehow going to be resolved (I'm not sure how), and the X-Men and crew were going to make peace with the Hauk'ka, for the time being. The Savage Land Mutates had their own agenda, and, as seen in the actual On Ice story, they were going to betray their allies and eventually lose, and placed under arrest by the Hauk'ka.

I don't know how long the peace would last, but it would have been cool to see if the Hauk'ka country would attack Genosha. A society of intelligent dinosaurs, some of them being mutants.

Also, I suspect that Colonel Yuri Vassilyich Semyenov (from Uncanny X-Men #275) would have become the new Petrified Man, given his intimacy with Zaladane and Claremont's plans to resseurect Zaladane in X-Treme X-Men #'s 1-9, despite him being killed by Magneto in Uncanny X-Men #275. I don't know what long term plans this would have, but I suspect he would continue his grudge against Magneto for killing his son (in self defense) in Uncanny X-Men #150.

[Keith_Martineau]

Claremont actually didn't have to build to any explanation of these "evolved dinos". Just look into the past. That story came out of an Annual from the late 80s, where Garrokk the Petrified Man sacrifices himself to resurrect the Savage Land. His negative influence is what eventually corrupts the newly-formed dinosaurs. Claremont even hinted to this simmering subplot later on in Uncanny X-Men #275.

I agree. But the fact of the matter is that only hardcore readers are gonna know that. It was still going to require returning to the Savage Land and having a tale that explains where these guys came from, cause those preceeding stories are 20 years old.

I can understand this problem. I think one main problem is "tangents" like the Hellfire Club, Grey's End, Jamie Braddock, X-Men flirtations, etc. I feel these "tangents" were never meant to be that, they were MEANT to lead to big stories. And for a variety of reasons (editorial, other writers desires, etc.) these tangents never lead to their desired outcomes. Claremont should get some blame, but the real blame is Marvel and green-lighting his stories, and then ending them way too soon. Only we constant readers suffer from this.

I kind of think Claremont is more to blame for this. I've sat here with everybody else and bitched about how Marvel has treated Claremont, and if only they'd let him tell his stories.
But the problem is, he's still trying to tell stories the way he did back when it was just him, or just him and the writer of X-Factor and New Mutants. He could set things up that wouldn't pay off for another 2 years or more. In todays comics climate, not just Marvel, but everywhere, a 2 year run is considered long. Three years like Morrison had, or Bendis' 5 years on Daredevil are practically unheard of. Claremont likes to write something, and layer in something else for a couple years later. Then as he gets closer to that plot, he layers in something else for 2 years later.
The things that sell today, are definately more structured and insular. Arc by arc. There will be some foreshadowing to the future, obviously, but overall things tend to get tied up. Morrison's New X-Men is a fine example. Claremont tried, but ultimately wasn't able to conform to that more.

Now, I have high expectations for his Exiles. He can do whatever the hell he wants. I also am enjoying New Excalibur. Here, he was one book, in his own playground in England. Those two books also give him stewardship over the multiverse, and the Captain Britain corps. He should be able to use his more typical, layered plot style and keep things cool and clean, while still having it be his own style.

[fishtaco]

I agree. But the fact of the matter is that only hardcore readers are gonna know that. It was still going to require returning to the Savage Land and having a tale that explains where these guys came from, cause those preceeding stories are 20 years old.But do new readers have to know that he foreshadowed it for them to understand the story? Sure, they might appreciate it more, but they don't need to read UXM 275 to understand the story, right?

I kind of think Claremont is more to blame for this. I've sat here with everybody else and bitched about how Marvel has treated Claremont, and if only they'd let him tell his stories.
But the problem is, he's still trying to tell stories the way he did back when it was just him, or just him and the writer of X-Factor and New Mutants. He could set things up that wouldn't pay off for another 2 years or more. In todays comics climate, not just Marvel, but everywhere, a 2 year run is considered long. Three years like Morrison had, or Bendis' 5 years on Daredevil are practically unheard of. Claremont likes to write something, and layer in something else for a couple years later. Then as he gets closer to that plot, he layers in something else for 2 years later.
The things that sell today, are definately more structured and insular. Arc by arc. There will be some foreshadowing to the future, obviously, but overall things tend to get tied up. Morrison's New X-Men is a fine example. Claremont tried, but ultimately wasn't able to conform to that more.Agreed, and that is my problem with today's industry. These two year/less runs are the problem. If we keep getting revamp after revamp, there can be no growth and no progression. They keep starting from scratch, and it messes things up. I can't blame a writer for not wanting to continue the previous writer's stories, but they need to make runs longer. Look how long Claremont was on Uncanny X-Men, or just New Mutants. Look how long Peter David was on Hulk, or Walter Simonson on Thor, or Stan Lee on Fantastic Four. Look how long Bendis has been on Ultimate Spider-Man, or how long Scott Lobdell was on Uncanny X-Men, or Bill Mantlo on Rom, or Jim Shooter on Avengers, of Frank Miller on Batman, or Louise Simonson on X-Factor and New Mutants. Some of these runs aren't even that long. Yeah, Claremont's style doesn't fit with the new trend, but this is the style that Claremont's fans (including myself) want to read. Claremont himself has acknowledged this problem.

Now, I have high expectations for his Exiles. He can do whatever the hell he wants. I also am enjoying New Excalibur. Here, he was one book, in his own playground in England. Those two books also give him stewardship over the multiverse, and the Captain Britain corps. He should be able to use his more typical, layered plot style and keep things cool and clean, while still having it be his own style.The thing about New Excalibur is that it's really his book. Stuff like X-Men, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Fantastic Four: any Marvel writer can do (supposedly). But the Excalibur concept is something that very few writers actually know how to do. It's the same reason why Fabian Nicieza hasn't been replaced on Cable and Deadpool. Who else can write that book? I'd say Alan Davis can write Excalibur, Warren Ellis can write it, and MAYBE Alan Moore, and really, that's about it.

Tony Bedard has even said himself how much creative freedom he gets on Exiles. I don't think that Claremont will ever get the amount of creative freedom that he got during his original run (except for when Harras was on board), but Exiles might bring it close. Despite New Excalibur being separated from the other X-books, Claremont is still getting editorial interference, such as his Hellfire Club story(ies) because of Astonishing X-Men. GeNext is going to kick so much ass, though. I'm not familiar with Mike Pannicia as an editor, so I'm hoping that since in GeNext the 90's didn't happen, Chris can write about whatever he wants. I simply can't wait.

[Keith_Martineau]

That is your problem with todays industry, and I totally understand it. You know I'm a Claremont fan and I want him to get to tell his stories.

But I disagree that it's a problem. It's the way comic book storytelling has evolved. The way comics read in the 50's is different than the 70's, 70's diff than the 80's and 90's. And different today. Chris Claremont used to be one of the guys that defined how stories were told. The way he wrote things in X-Men 275 was different than 138. Somewhere along the way, he stopped being as adaptable. Guys like Peter David have shown the ability to adapt more.

I honestly think that Brian Michael Bendis today, has a lot in common with the Claremont of yesteryear. Obviously their styles are different, but I'm talking more about the way they define Marvel comics of their time. The way they turned their pet characters into stars that would get their own series. Writing the top comics that everyone HAS to read.

It's a fact, the way these stories are told, and the kinds of stories being told today in this modern style, it's generating sales, and it's putting life back into an industry that damn near killed itself. And it continues to evolve.

[fishtaco]

That is your problem with todays industry, and I totally understand it. You know I'm a Claremont fan and I want him to get to tell his stories.

But I disagree that it's a problem. It's the way comic book storytelling has evolved. The way comics read in the 50's is different than the 70's, 70's diff than the 80's and 90's. And different today. Chris Claremont used to be one of the guys that defined how stories were told. The way he wrote things in X-Men 275 was different than 138. Somewhere along the way, he stopped being as adaptable. Guys like Peter David have shown the ability to adapt more.I know. Chris was trying to evolve his style into an epic-scale format. It became neccessary.

I honestly think that Brian Michael Bendis today, has a lot in common with the Claremont of yesteryear. Obviously their styles are different, but I'm talking more about the way they define Marvel comics of their time. The way they turned their pet characters into stars that would get their own series. Writing the top comics that everyone HAS to read.But I don't see anything special about Bendis's comic books. Sure, Bendis may be defining what comics are like today, but still: his definition of what comics are like today is..well, bad in my opinion. Does this mean that in the next decade or two when Bendis is still writing fans at Newsarama are going to be treating him the same way they treat Claremont now?

It's a fact, the way these stories are told, and the kinds of stories being told today in this modern style, it's generating sales, and it's putting life back into an industry that damn near killed itself. And it continues to evolve.Back then, sales of 100k was a cause for cancellation. Today, about five books sell more than 100k copies. I don't see much life coming back into the industry.

[Keith_Martineau]

But I don't see anything special about Bendis's comic books. Sure, Bendis may be defining what comics are like today, but still: his definition of what comics are like today is..well, bad in my opinion. Does this mean that in the next decade or two when Bendis is still writing fans at Newsarama are going to be treating him the same way they treat Claremont now?

I wouldn't be shocked, especially if he never evolves his style. But who knows what the industry will look like then.

Back then, sales of 100k was a cause for cancellation. Today, about five books sell more than 100k copies. I don't see much life coming back into the industry.

Things are getting better. All comics slowly lose readers, but new series are debuting with higher numbers, and losing readers at a slower rate. Trade sales are enormous. Nobody should expect things to be back to the sales levels they were in the 90's. A slow, upward trend like we're starting to see is the healthy way to go.

[Frank]

I pretty much only liked the End of Grays storyline. Although the return of Bachalo made things a little better before for the other stories too. When I read End of Gray with the spotlight on Rachel I was happy and then sad and mad at the same time because my feelings were "why didn`t Chris write something like that before?". Seriously had he done stories like that from the get-go on his return with Alan Davis and continued on that path, perhaps he would still be the X-Men writer now.

[Frank]

sorry double post