Comic Books and the Government During Clinton's White House

[Brian Cronin]

Every once in awhile, I see people complain about comics being "anti-Republican." Part of this claim is based on the presumed fact that comic books (which have plenty of anti-government stories nowadays) were not as anti-government during Clinton's tenure in the White House.

But is that an accurate claim?

I open it up to you folks - let me know of some examples of anti-government comics from Marvel and DC during the Clinton administration.

-Brian

[Expletive Deleted]

Off the top of my head . . .

Operation: Zero Tolerance (government declares war on mutants) was 1998.

2099 A.D. (Dr. Doom overthrows the corrupt US government) was 1994.

[elheffe]

There was some issue of The Authority where Jack Hawksmoor argued with Bill Clinton. Clinton was a hologram. It's all pretty vague, I don't have the comic in front of me.

[mortari]

Didn't Clinton fire Steve Rogers?

[Greg Hatcher]

Comics have been anti-government ever since the 70's. Steve Englehart started the ball rolling with the Secret Empire stuff in Captain America, there was the whole Gyrich government-oversight subplot that ran in Avengers, somebody already brought up all the various mutant-registration act stuff that has been floating around the X-books for years, and Superman never really got over the dent Frank Miller put in his image when he portrayed him as a government yes-man. Not to mention all the Alan Moore stuff.

Superhero comics have been vaguely anti-establishment ever since the first hippie-era fans started writing them. I think that's why Civil War is so jarring; it seems really weird for ANY heroes to be taking the government's side on it.

[dancj]

Superhero comics have been vaguely anti-establishment ever since the first hippie-era fans started writing them. I think that's why Civil War is so jarring; it seems really weird for ANY heroes to be taking the government's side on it.

It's a funny thing. In the real world, it seems fairly reasonable for the government to want to keep track of who has powers. In comic world though the rules are different, and suddenly this seems terrible and being a violent vigilante doesn't seem such a bad thing.

Dan

[Yusaku Jon III]

I recollect comicbooks having had a somewhat subversive attitude since the 1970s myself. In fact, I think it really started coming to a head around the time of the Reagan administration, with the X-Men being outlaws in the eyes of the government and the Avengers being harrassed by Henry Peter ("the Prick") Gyrich. I think it's been more or less an institutionalized anti-government sentiment in comics ever since then.

Realistically, though, I'd expect the government to be giving the hairy eyeball to superhuman adventurers. Especially those who don't maintain cooperative liasons such as the Batman, Spider-Man or the X-Men. Others like the Fantastic Four or the Avengers may get some toleration so long as they're keeping the authorities up to speed on their activities.

[RAB]

The first issue of Supreme: The Return by Alan Moore includes a vicious satire/parody of Bill and Hillary. It's a little surprising to say the least, considering how gently Moore treated Margaret Thatcher in Miracleman...

I've read that Rob Liefeld trashed Clinton in his alleged Captain America revamp and lauded Nixon in the same book (!) but I have never exposed my eyeballs to its presence so I couldn't say that for sure.

[Jake Lockley]

I'm not sure about there being fewer anti-government storylines during the Clinton years, but the first one that really sticks out in my mind was the Peter Gyrich-Avengers conflict already mentioned from the early 80s. But regardless of which party is in power, "the government" makes for an easy foil... Civil War has the potential to be the ultimate government-as-bad-guy story. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

[Gingold]

Didn't an issue of Peter David's Hulk have Betty Banner complaining about Clinton as a draft dodger? (David's no conservative, obviously, but I think he felt it in-character for Army brat Betty to be portrayed as such).

[Hombre]

Every once in awhile, I see people complain about comics being "anti-Republican." Part of this claim is based on the presumed fact that comic books (which have plenty of anti-government stories nowadays) were not as anti-government during Clinton's tenure in the White House.

But is that an accurate claim?

I open it up to you folks - let me know of some examples of anti-government comics from Marvel and DC during the Clinton administration.

-Brian

As you know, I have a very positive opinion of Priest's Black Panther. And that is regardless of the opinions or viewpoints expressed in the story. Because the story itself was strong and had integrity.

During that run, Priest gives his take on both Clinton and W. Bush during their time in Office. Early in the run, Clinton comes off as irascible and generally not very presidential, chasing after Everett in a robe with an hockey stick. Priest even mention at some point how he felt appalled at the whole arguing the meaning of the word "is" situation.

By contrast, the portrayal of George W. Bush is much more sympathetic. He is smart enough to play along with the Panther in order to prevent a coup d'état, and in one memorable scene, as he spends the night in a club dancing with Queen Divine Justice, he talks about the issues and makes a case for the good performance of his Administration, all things considered.

[Mike Smash!]

There was some issue of The Authority where Jack Hawksmoor argued with Bill Clinton. Clinton was a hologram. It's all pretty vague, I don't have the comic in front of me.

There was the implication that one of the Authority members had kicked Clinton in the balls.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Clinton slept with Stacy X in the nuff said issue of Uncanny X-men (and was holding the American flag at the time I believe).

Originally it was going to be Rudi Guiliani, but after 9/11 he was off limits, but Clinton wasn't.

[Loren]

I remember two particular portrayals of Clinton in DC books, both of which were negative, albeit indirectly.

The first was Bill's appearance during "Reign of the Supermen," where he threw his support behind the Cyborg Superman. Clinton even allowed the Cyborg to link up to the White House computer network, allowing him access to a lot of classified information that was later used for incredibly nefarious purposes.

The second was when Clinton appeared in a Spectre issue, which at the end turned out to only be a prophetic vision. In that vision, Clinton gave Superman the Spear of Destiny, which he then used to kill the Spectre. Then Clinton asked for the Spear back, to which Supes basically responded "No." And then Superman went about taking over the world, and killing anyone who got in his way.

So both instances had the DCU Bill Clinton making some seriously bad judgment calls, and consequently endangering the entire planet.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

The second was when Clinton appeared in a Spectre issue, which at the end turned out to only be a prophetic vision. In that vision, Clinton gave Superman the Spear of Destiny, which he then used to kill the Spectre. Then Clinton asked for the Spear back, to which Supes basically responded "No." And then Superman went about taking over the world, and killing anyone who got in his way.

So both instances had the DCU Bill Clinton making some seriously bad judgment calls, and consequently endangering the entire planet.

I think they call that the Lewinsky Gambit.

[dancj]

I think they call that the Lewinsky Gambit.

Yes. In the case of Monica Lewinksy, he endangered the planet by making democrats look bad and therefore helping GWB to win the next election by a narrow margin. I can't think of many things more dangerous to this planet right now than GWB

[Sean Walsh]

Yes. In the case of Monica Lewinksy, he endangered the planet by making democrats look bad and therefore helping GWB to win the next election by a narrow margin. I can't think of many things more dangerous to this planet right now than GWB

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,552636,00.jpg

http://www.kenston.k12.oh.us/khs/tplookalike_new/kim%20jong%20il.jpg

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/ap/004a56ab-7d9e-424e-90ca-a8782f033c4f.hmedium.jpg

[pennywisdom]

Part of this claim is based on the presumed fact that comic books were not as anti-government during Clinton's tenure in the White House.

But is that an accurate claim?
Sure it's an accurate claim. Not only were comics less anti-government during Clinton's tenure in the White House, people in general weren't as anti-government during Clinton's tenure. Bush has turned the whole world, including much of America, against the US federal government. It's not like comics are alone on that point.

Regarding Authority, Hawksmoor had that chat with Bill Clinton in either the first or second issue that Millar wrote. It was right after Ellis' departure and I think it might have been issue 13 (Hawksmoor became team leader after Jenny Sparks died).

[dancj]

http://www.kenston.k12.oh.us/khs/tplookalike_new/kim%20jong%20il.jpg


Isn't that Mao Tsetung? He is dead. I hardly think he qualifies - though he was a lunatic.

There are other countries with psychos in charge, but America is the most powerful country in the world with a psycho in charge.

[Loren]

That's North Korea's Kim Jong-Il.

[Sean Walsh]

That's North Korea's Kim Jong-Il.

Had I used the Team America picture I found of him, there'd have been no confusion..... ;) :p

[Apathy Boy]

The second was when Clinton appeared in a Spectre issue, which at the end turned out to only be a prophetic vision. In that vision, Clinton gave Superman the Spear of Destiny, which he then used to kill the Spectre. Then Clinton asked for the Spear back, to which Supes basically responded "No." And then Superman went about taking over the world, and killing anyone who got in his way.The non-dream Clinton appearance at the start of the arc was probably a more relevant example for this thread. Clinton and his top aides were meeting at the White House with Professor Nicodemus Hazzard, who would eventually suggest using the Spear of Destiny to take down the Spectre.

CLINTON: Gentlemen, I'd like to introduce you to my old college professor, Nicodemus Hazzard. Professor Hazzard, or "Ol' Nick" to his students, was the one who introduced me to marijuana.

HAZZARD: Yes, but you never inhaled.

EVERYONE (including Clinton): HA HA HA HA HA HA!

The scene was creepy because it was so easy to imagine that actually happening in real life.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

That's North Korea's Kim Jong-Il.

And he's a really localised threat, not a world threat.

[howyadoin]

On a barely-related note, what about those anti-drug Spider-Man stories that were inserted into Marvel comics? Didn't the Clinton administration fund those?

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

On a barely-related note, what about those anti-drug Spider-Man stories that were inserted into Marvel comics? Didn't the Clinton administration fund those?

Does Spiderman inhale?

[howyadoin]

Does Spiderman inhale?Spider-Man meets some guy who's a teen-pop sensation, and when he's rescuing the guy from falling out of a helicopter, the guy drops his hash pipe.

The antidrug message is about as ham-fisted as you'd imagine.

And this was during the same era when TV networks were getting paid by the government to put anti-drug subplots into their shows.

[Brian Cronin]

I think that was during Bush's first term.

Man, those WERE lame.

-Brian

[suedenim]

Every once in awhile, I see people complain about comics being "anti-Republican." Part of this claim is based on the presumed fact that comic books (which have plenty of anti-government stories nowadays) were not as anti-government during Clinton's tenure in the White House.

But is that an accurate claim?

I open it up to you folks - let me know of some examples of anti-government comics from Marvel and DC during the Clinton administration.

-Brian

I think your phrasing of the question is a little off. It's just part of the superhero genre (after Watergate, anyway) that EEeeevil Guvmint Sp00ks and the like are a type of stock bad guy. Secret government agencies, rogue or otherwise, make good, if cliched, villains, and have powers (legal, military, etc.) that can plausibly give a superhero a hard time.

But if there's a Republican in office, you see many more such stories with the same stuff, though now with "allegorical" elements ramped way up. Lots of not-too-subtly implied "See, this evil thing the government is doing in this comic book is just like what the evil Republicans are doing/want to do/will do any second now!"

(Exception: I believe the Brit-Lefty writers tend more toward "America is Evil" portrayals, period, regardless of party politics.)

BTW, I remember the "Clinton endorses the Cyborg Superman" thing, and that was pretty funny, but IIRC it wasn't played politically - it was just a little background detail that made you wonder "Gee, this won't look too good for DC's Clinton, will it?" But I don't believe such issues were ever addressed.

[winterteeth]

It's funny that this topic came up today. I was reading The Champions #5 and the whole thrust of it is that Ford's policies have driven the country into such a bad recession that a small business owner has no choice but to become a super-villain named Rampage. Several extras and the omniscient narrator comment on how the republicans are ruining the country. This was the year Carter was elected so I wonder if Rampage quit or if they had a Gasoline Crisis on Infinite Earths or something?

[suedenim]

Oh, that just reminded me of another funny Ford Administration Marvel reference - Henry Kissinger's treaty between the United States and Latveria in Super-Villain Team-Up!

What's kind of interesting about it is how, even though Dr. Doom is obviously an evil super-villain, the deal isn't presented as an inherently evil or stupid move by Kissinger, but more like a bit of Realpolitik that was potentially a good idea for the U.S. Kissinger and Ford aren't really portrayed all that negatively.

[howyadoin]

Gasoline Crisis on Infinite EarthsHah. Nice concept.

[Loren]

I think that was during Bush's first term.

Nope, it looks like it was Clinton after all. This (http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00/n400/a09.html) talks about the Clinton Administration providing Marvel with $2.5 million to create the "Fast Lane" story. And here (http://www.spiderfan.org/comics/title/spiderman_social.html) we see that it was released during 1999 and 2000.

What's really surprising here is that such a lame comic cost $2.5 million in taxpayer money.

[Loren]

BTW, I remember the "Clinton endorses the Cyborg Superman" thing, and that was pretty funny, but IIRC it wasn't played politically - it was just a little background detail that made you wonder "Gee, this won't look too good for DC's Clinton, will it?" But I don't believe such issues were ever addressed.

And they weren't. Clinton's endorsement was, I believe, just another means of building up the audience's trust in the Cyborg Superman, so as to better pull the rug out from everyone when he went bad. I don't recall Clinton ever being mentioned again after his big issue.

[scottv]

I think that comics just do what they want to do and it doesnt' really matter who is in office. There is always going to be that tension between superheoes and the government because a lot of time the heroes opperate outside the law.