Why did "Fantastic Four" get a free pass from fans yet "Batman Forever/Robin" didn't?

[Norrin Radd]

One could argue that it was because Batman is an inherently dark character and the Schumacher films ruined that tone. But I'd also find it hard to argue that the Fantastic Four film got the tone of the FF or its characters completely right, either.

Hell, even if you suggest that FF was non-serious for much of its Lee/Kirby run, you could also say that for a significant part of Batman's history he's been a "joke character". You could argue that the Schumacher films were just paying homage to that aspect.

Both the Schumacher films and FF basically treated their respective villains as jokes. In this case it was probably worse in the case of FF because Doom is one of the iconic villains.

Discuss...

[Scorpion13]

I understand that Fantastic Four isnt the best movie, but I totally dont understand people who say that its terrible.

Why does it get a free pass and Batman and Robin doesnt? Simple.

Batman and Robin is the worst superhero movie ever filmed. Its a travesty. Its garbage. Its awful.

[Norrin Radd]

I understand that Fantastic Four isnt the best movie, but I totally dont understand people who say that its terrible.

Why does it get a free pass and Batman and Robin doesnt? Simple.

Batman and Robin is the worst superhero movie ever filmed. Its a travesty. Its garbage. Its awful.

But I'm not just talking about Batman and Robin but also Batman Forever. That one also gets slagged mercilessly for its tone, if not quite like the other one.

[Cephus]

I understand that Fantastic Four isnt the best movie, but I totally dont understand people who say that its terrible.

Why does it get a free pass and Batman and Robin doesnt? Simple.

Batman and Robin is the worst superhero movie ever filmed. Its a travesty. Its garbage. Its awful.

Exactly. Fantastic Four, while it certainly wasn't a good FF movie, was a decent film overall. If you ignore that it's supposed to be about the FF, it's relatively enjoyable.

Batman and Robin just sucked on every level. It was a complete waste of film stock. There was absolutely nothing about the movie that made it worth watching.

[hoffmandu]

Honestly, I don't think it really does get a free pass. Sure there are some people out there who claim to like it, but there were back then too when Bats 3 & 4 came out. Time will prove that this flick is an eternal stinker. There's really nothing redeeming about it, what so ever, I mean, you can't even laugh at it.........I have nothing but disdain for FF.

[Dennis K]

What "free pass" do you think Fantastic Four got? I see it roasted with regularity here (I happen to like it, btw). As far as Batman Forever goes, it hasn't held up at all over the years since its release, and Batman and Robin was a turd from the day it was released.

[Ryan K]

Like everyone else has said I think Batman and Robin is a SIGNIFICANTLY worse film than Fantastic Four (personally I enjoy enough elements of Batman Forever to enjoy it). But even more important than that, we had the two previous Tim Burton films (abd the animated series) to hold up as an example to the Schumacher films. And while Batman and Robin really is a horrible film on every level, when you compaer it to the Burton flicks and the animated series, it can blow your mind how bad it is.

I don't think Fantastic Four is a good movie. I don't like some of the changes and obviously its campy. But I still had fun watching it in a number of places. Watching Batman and Robin was like a nightmare from neginning to end. Its like they tried to make it that bad.

[Shades0077]

Because The Thing did not have nipples.

[KenK]

I think there's a subtle difference between under-developing a villain, and having him prance around like a kid on speed, laughing maniacally at the drop of a hat. At least there was an established rivalry between Doom and Reed. Doom wasn't the scenery chewing goofball that both Carrey and Jones were as the Riddler and Two-Face respectively. To say nothing of Two-Face's repeated coin-flipping until it comes up scarred so he can shoot Bruce, or him and the Riddler wearing diamond earrings and tiaras after knocking off a jewelery store. Doom didn't have an endless stream of one-liners like Mr. Freeze, or smoke cigars (should a man who needs to keep his body temp below freezing even bee smoking cigars?!?), or have his henchmen sing commercial jingles for no goddamn reason.

Doom may have not been as fleshed out as he could have been, but he was hardly made a joke the way the villains in Schumacher's Bat-films were.

[Scorpion13]

I think there's a subtle difference between under-developing a villain, and having him prance around like a kid on speed, laughing maniacally at the drop of a hat. At least there was an established rivalry between Doom and Reed. Doom wasn't the scenery chewing goofball that both Carrey and Jones were as the Riddler and Two-Face respectively. To say nothing of Two-Face's repeated coin-flipping until it comes up scarred so he can shoot Bruce, or him and the Riddler wearing diamond earrings and tiaras after knocking off a jewelery store. Doom didn't have an endless stream of one-liners like Mr. Freeze, or smoke cigars (should a man who needs to keep his body temp below freezing even bee smoking cigars?!?), or have his henchmen sing commercial jingles for no goddamn reason.

Doom may have not been as fleshed out as he could have been, but he was hardly made a joke the way the villains in Schumacher's Bat-films were.


And what was worse is that the first 2 were pretty good.

Can you even imagine that the same series that featured Arnold as Mister Freeze and Jim Carrey as the Riddler was the same one that had Jack Nicholson's Joker?

[CaptainAwesome]

All three films were very bad in my opinion. But they are also "late saturday night" movies. Meaning you can watch them late saturday night and have a good time. I actually prefer Batman Forever to the other movies. No particular reason, I just do.

[KenK]

See, the thing about Burton's films, as debatable as they may be, I feel, is that they did a good job of covering a spectrum. They covered numerous eras of Batman; The Kane/Finger stuff is there, the Miller stuff is there, the Denny O'Neil stuff is there, even just a smidge of the 60s television series. And it was what people expected of Batman at the time of its release.

Schumacher's films suffered from relying to heavily on an era of Batman that was past relevance. Which is sad because both of his films featured elements that dealt with Bruce and aimed to be very dramatic; his struggle over feeling responsible for the death of his parents in Forever, and his relationship with Alfred in B&R. I thought it was great that they at least tried to remind audiences how important a role Alfred had been in Bruce's life after his parents' murder.

[Darth Joker]

Pretty basic answer...

The FF movie benefits from not having other FF movies to compare it to.

If they did have clearly better previous FF movies to compare it to, then you would have seen the "latest" FF movie roasted to the same degree that "Batman Forever", and "Batman and Robin" were.

Also, I think that FF fans were happy that the movie at least got the action scenes/character appearances/special effects right, even if the characterization was poor (particularly for Dr. Doom). You didn't have anything like the atrocious bat-nipples.

Finally, I think that we've reached a point where we don't expect comic book villians to translate well to the big screen. If you look at a lot of comic book villians in movies, Nicholson's Joker really is the exception, and not the rule.

[Phil Clark]

The answer is (I think) very basic. With Batman and Robin and Batman Forever the bar for Batman films had been set, and it had been set high. So when these two films came out and were compared to what came before... the dramatically paled in comparison to the earlier films.

The Fantastic Four on the other hand had no real bar set since it was the first adaptation that most people have seen (remember that most movie goers don't search out bootleg copies of unreleased films like the Corman FF film). Add to that the fans that had seen the Corman film knew just how bad it could have been, and Story's film was much better than Corman's production.

FF 2 has to raise the bar otherwise it will be panned big time by the fans. FF 2 will not get a "Free Pass". Just the way that no Batman film will ever get a "Free pass" ever again.

Edit to add:
Yeah... what Darth Joker said... He just typed it faster than I did. ;)

[Darth Joker]

The answer is (I think) very basic. With Batman and Robin and Batman Forever the bar for Batman films had been set, and it had been set high. So when these two films came out and were compared to what came before... the dramatically paled in comparison to the earlier films.

The Fantastic Four on the other hand had no real bar set since it was the first adaptation that most people have seen (remember that most movie goers don't search out bootleg copies of unreleased films like the Corman FF film). Add to that the fans that had seen the Corman film knew just how bad it could have been, and Story's film was much better than Corman's production.

FF 2 has to raise the bar otherwise it will be panned big time by the fans. FF 2 will not get a "Free Pass". Just the way that no Batman film will ever get a "Free pass" ever again.

Edit to add:
Yeah... what Darth Joker said... He just typed it faster than I did. ;)

LOL

Agreed, the second FF movie will be held to higher standards. The reason being that then it's a FF FRANCHISE, and not just one lone film. As a FRANCHISE, the fans are going to expect more than what the first movie deliverred. If it features Silver Surfer and/or Galactus, the movie makers sure as heck better do a better job with those characters than they did with Dr. Doom.

[Magneto_X]

All three films were very bad in my opinion. But they are also "late saturday night" movies. Meaning you can watch them late saturday night and have a good time. I actually prefer Batman Forever to the other movies. No particular reason, I just do.

As do I.

Forever ages badly and it is a bad movie but it is enjoyable as a popcorn flick. Plus it has one of Nicole Kidman's best performances in it!

[hoffmandu]

Doom may have not been as fleshed out as he could have been, but he was hardly made a joke the way the villains in Schumacher's Bat-films were.

Yes he was. He wasn't Doom at all, that in itself, is a joke. It was like they decided to create a villian, using Dr Doom in name only. At least the Riddler used riddles, and Two-Face was a scarred schizo. He shot electricity........

[Magneto_X]

The answer is (I think) very basic. With Batman and Robin and Batman Forever the bar for Batman films had been set, and it had been set high. So when these two films came out and were compared to what came before... the dramatically paled in comparison to the earlier films.

The Fantastic Four on the other hand had no real bar set since it was the first adaptation that most people have seen (remember that most movie goers don't search out bootleg copies of unreleased films like the Corman FF film). Add to that the fans that had seen the Corman film knew just how bad it could have been, and Story's film was much better than Corman's production.

FF 2 has to raise the bar otherwise it will be panned big time by the fans. FF 2 will not get a "Free Pass". Just the way that no Batman film will ever get a "Free pass" ever again.

Edit to add:
Yeah... what Darth Joker said... He just typed it faster than I did. ;)

Fox seemed to go out of their way to lower audience exspectations on FF, too. People were really turned off once it got around that Tim Story and Jessica Alba were hired.

[Chiasm]

For me I look at it two ways:

Worst comic book movie ever - easily Batman and Robin. Fantastic Four wasn't a good movie in hindsight when you realize how badly they blew Dr Doom and certainly isn't worth a repeat viewing but it was okay at the time. B&R sucked the whole time I was watching it.

Most disappointing comic book movie ever - that one for me is easily X-men: The Last Stand for completely screwing up the Dark Phoenix story. The only thing I liked about that movie was the one thing it got right - Kitty Pryde. But as disappointing as X-men 3 was its still better than B&R and F4 because screwed up Dark Phoenix or not it was a good popcorn flick.

[Hiromi]

Yes he was. He wasn't Doom at all, that in itself, is a joke. It was like they decided to create a villian, using Dr Doom in name only. At least the Riddler used riddles, and Two-Face was a scarred schizo. He shot electricity........

And he was Latvarian, honestly if they did something right about Doom in the movie it was the costume, and shipping him back to Latveria in the end.

[Basara]

Rivalry with Richards? Check.
Latverian? Check.
Powerful, with lots of resources? Check.
Fixated on Richards? Check.
More powerful than any of the FF individually? Check.
Blames all misfortune on Richards? Check.
Ruthless? Check.
Costume looks right? Check.

Ok, because they went with the Ultimate origin of Doom instead of the original origin, he's the worst villain of all time?

What's next, bitching about Spidey's organic web shooters and Green Goblin's crazy Power Ranger costume?

Oh wait, that happened too. Now, I don't hear much bitching about Spider-Man anymore. Green Goblin might not have been great on film, but he wasn't terrible either. Just like Doom.

Obviously, I liked the FF film. The actors for the FF all played their characters well and were much more believable as superheroes than Michael Keaton as Batman and Hallie Berry as Storm for the first 2 X movies.

Yeah, I said it. Michael Keaton was bad as Batman. Everyone knows Jack Nicholson carried the first Batman movie as Joker. Most everyone wanted Joker to win. Pity the second movie couldn't use him as well.

I believe the FF movie set things up well for future FF films, just like the first X-Men and Spidey films did for their franchises. I have every confidence that the second movie will be great.

[Indigo Al]

FF's saving grace is that Chiklis and the guy playing Johnny got to the hearts of their respective characters. Hurt by a lack of a charismatic Reed and by a more mature Sue - but that's ok because it's Jessica Alba.

Also hurt by the fact that there's no discernible difference between Dr. Doom and Dr. Christian Troy from Nip/Tuck.

FF was perfectly standard & mediocre.

B&R was just abysmally horrible

[Sean Whitmore]

It's been said, but I wanna say it again. :)

Fantastic Four was not so much bad in and of itself as it was a terrible, horrible, crushing disappointment compared to what it could have been.

Batman and Robin was just incomprehensibly awful by any and all standards of judgment.

(And btw, FF doesn't get a pass from me. Comic movie are either good or bad, so it gets lumped into the same column as B&R)


SEAN

[Sean Whitmore]

Rivalry with Richards? Check.
Latverian? Check.
Powerful, with lots of resources? Check.
Fixated on Richards? Check.
More powerful than any of the FF individually? Check.
Blames all misfortune on Richards? Check.
Ruthless? Check.
Costume looks right? Check.


You can't stop there, though.
Personality? Missing.
Genius? Missing.
That's pretty much what I cared about.

(And no, the fact that Doom is called a genius in the movie isn't enough. The rule is "show, don't tell". Same goes for Richards, for that matter.)


What's next, bitching about Spidey's organic web shooters and Green Goblin's crazy Power Ranger costume?


Well, c'mon, that costume was hideous. How the hell do you hire an actor with as crazy-scary a face as Defoe's and not utilize it?


SEAN

[Chiasm]

The other thing that ultimately disappointed me about Fantastic Four was how completely boring it was. I kept waiting for the big fight scene. Instead we got Human Torch being chased by a missle which was cool but not nearly enough to carry the movie. And then for the final fight we have Dr Doom get sprayed with water and Johnny heating him up and then its over. It needed a much bigger, much louder, much more spectacular final fight. The lack of a payoff to me mattered much more than a lame Dr Doom or perhaps he was lame because the final fight was so mediocre and he was beaten so boringly.

[Captain_Video]

One could argue that it was because Batman is an inherently dark character and the Schumacher films ruined that tone. But I'd also find it hard to argue that the Fantastic Four film got the tone of the FF or its characters completely right, either.

Hell, even if you suggest that FF was non-serious for much of its Lee/Kirby run, you could also say that for a significant part of Batman's history he's been a "joke character". You could argue that the Schumacher films were just paying homage to that aspect.

Both the Schumacher films and FF basically treated their respective villains as jokes. In this case it was probably worse in the case of FF because Doom is one of the iconic villains.

Discuss...

I believe that recently any negativity towards a movie if justified or not from fans of the comic is seen as "fanboy nitpicking" which leads to a more positive skew as people do not want to be labelled the dreaded "fanboy", which means only universally panned movies like Hulk and Daredevil are acceptable to bash ( Ironically Hulk is easily the most accomplished of all the Marvel movies to date ).

One thing I will say for Batman and Robin is that though it is campy and a complete disaster, it is tonally in keeping with the tv series from the sixties so it is not like Batman has never been portrayed that way before to a large audience, unfortunately that show is heavily derided and considered to be a key factor in superhero comics retaining a childish label, Batman is really locked in fans mindsets now as a dark brooding character.

Fantastic Four are seen as lighter and more family orientated, so the movie gets a lot of slack in this regard, for my money the fact that the greatest villain in comics Dr Doom was completely messed up, the fact that they had a great shooting script which was dropped due to being "too expensive" and the truely half ass job with what is THE property which most reflects Marvels strengths is much worse than Batman and Robin.

I guess if you are going to make a failure make a complete disaster rather than a mediocre banal one.

So there is your FF bashing, its a half ass job at best and I don't think there is any real argument against it.

[blackdragon6]

ff was just uterly campy and boring.FF2 has no choice BUT to be better.

[Sean Whitmore]

I believe that recently any negativity towards a movie if justified or not from fans of the comic is seen as "fanboy nitpicking"


Depends what you feel is justified. Some people are hating X3, for example, because Juggernaut isn't a mutant.


SEAN

[Pól Rua]

One could argue that it was because Batman is an inherently dark character and the Schumacher films ruined that tone. But I'd also find it hard to argue that the Fantastic Four film got the tone of the FF or its characters completely right, either.

Hell, even if you suggest that FF was non-serious for much of its Lee/Kirby run, you could also say that for a significant part of Batman's history he's been a "joke character". You could argue that the Schumacher films were just paying homage to that aspect.

Both the Schumacher films and FF basically treated their respective villains as jokes. In this case it was probably worse in the case of FF because Doom is one of the iconic villains.

Discuss...

I liked the FF movie, and despised all four Batman films (I'm not all that keen on Batman Begins either...).
There are a couple of reasons why I give the FF Movie a thumbs up and all the Batfilms so far a thumbs down.
1) The FF Film had a story. The characters are established, conflicts are established, characters work through problems, interact and then it all comes to a head with the big confrontation then everyone goes home.
Batman and Robin is a series of impossibly hokey set pieces that crash at you one after another. Your suspension of disbelief is completely shattered by the initial sky surfing ridiculousness.
2) The FF movie had some pretty spiffy characterization. Ben and Johnny were pretty much spot-on and their interaction was great. Despite a lot of people being unimpressed with him, I found Reed quite nifty, if only because I empathised with his terrible social awkwardness. Jessica Alba was adequate. She displayed very little flair, but honestly, how much of a basis did Stan and Jack really give her to build a character on.
Yes, McMahon's Doom wasn't the towering juggernaut of evil we were expecting, but I really saw him as pre-Tibet Doom - a smarmy and egotistical rival to Reed Richards... which he was. Hopefully, we'll see an improvement after he travels the world and gets his full-potential evil on.
And for all that many seem to think he completely missed the mark with Doom, I felt he managed to get across the pettiness of Doom's hatred of Reed Richards, which I've always considered an integral part of the character.
Meanwhile, in B&R, there ARE no characters, just a series of one-liners by a succession of cardboard cutouts in fetish gear.

Simply put, FF was, at its worst, mediocre, while Batman & Robin was a cynical exercise in seeing how much horse crap an audience will pay to gag down.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Another simple answer is this:

Batman is just more popular than the FF. A lot more people give a damn about Batman. So a bad Batman movie is going to have a lot more vocal detractors than a bad FF movie.

Of course, it doesn't help that Batman and Robin is like, one of the worst movies ever made.

[Night]

Batman is just more popular than the FF. A lot more people give a damn about Batman. So a bad Batman movie is going to have a lot more vocal detractors than a bad FF movie. Then there's those who think Batman's been done... over and over again.... in both TV and Big Screen ... Keaton & Nicholson set a pretty high bar for the movies and even some of the later cartoons have had good storylines. To me (I don't follow batman in comics much sorry) the riddler has always been a more serious character than the Joker, but Carrey plays him super campy, I mean you can't take someone who say's "Joy-gasm" seriously. Now I've said it, great. Then there's the whole "mind/dream reading machine" plotline that didn't work in the Generation X pilot (and did the most damage to the potential of said pilot)... I don't know why they thought putting more money behind it would make the idea any better.... especially when you're trying for psuedo-comic-realistic settings.

FF has not had near the hype. FF has never had a serious motion version to hit big screen or small in mass. FF fans have been waiting a long time for something to come out.... ANYTHING to come out. While they didn't spend too much on characterization, they did pull out some decent effects.... especially with what they had to work with. I think most of us are somewhat surprised (even with the X-movies) that they were able to translate such effects biased characters and still be able to pull it off for actors. Whereas Batman is an easier set of characters to do. It didn’t get a free pass, it had to do a lot of effects and visualization to get the mediocre rap it got. It’s not the best film out there, but it’s the best FF we got.

[Ontir]

"FF" was better than "Batman & Robin," but I wouldn't say it got a free pass. There are plenty of people who hate very frame of it, and people like me, who thought it had some bright spots but was, over all a serviceable film, that has enough going for it, to build sequels from. "B&R" just left nothing to work with!

[Catman]

Fantastic Four was alright, but it's so obvious that it could have been waaay better than it ultimately proved to be. But upon hearing that TIM STORY was directing this flick, I cant honestly say I was going in with the greatest expectations.

As for Batman & Robin, I agree that the film is one big, steaming pile of dog dung. And I also agree with the idea of more people being emotionally invested/critical with Batman than with the Fantastic Four. Although the FF have experienced appearances beyond that of the comic book ( a few animated series, toys), it really pales in comparison to the sucess of the Batman animated series, and action figures that Batman has enjoyed thru the years (with the biggest rivals being X-Men, Spider-Man, and Superman). Which by the way, kept the Batman franchise alive and well, despite Joel Schumacher nearly destroying the film franchise in the late 1990's.

Again, FF is alright for what it is. The film isnt quite bad as B&R (no it's much more on par with Batman Forever), but I dont think it could ever seriously be considered a great transition from comic book to the silver screen.

[darkwolf]

One could argue that it was because Batman is an inherently dark character and the Schumacher films ruined that tone. But I'd also find it hard to argue that the Fantastic Four film got the tone of the FF or its characters completely right, either.

Hell, even if you suggest that FF was non-serious for much of its Lee/Kirby run, you could also say that for a significant part of Batman's history he's been a "joke character". You could argue that the Schumacher films were just paying homage to that aspect.

Both the Schumacher films and FF basically treated their respective villains as jokes. In this case it was probably worse in the case of FF because Doom is one of the iconic villains.

Discuss...

2 words : Jessica Alba

[Sean Whitmore]

2 words : Jessica Alba


Yeah, but B&R had Alicia Silversto--

Hmm.

I honestly don't know what point I was trying to make there....


SEAN

[Shades0077]

Honestly, the only problem I really had with Fantastic Four was that once Doom became Doom, with the mask and everything, I thought his voice would be more menacing. Having the same voice coming from the mask as from his human mouth just didn't seem to fit correctly. He easily could have rigged up some sort of voice modulator type thing.

[OverMaster]

Finally, I think that we've reached a point where we don't expect comic book villians to translate well to the big screen. If you look at a lot of comic book villians in movies, Nicholson's Joker really is the exception, and not the rule.

Well, Molina's Doc Ock and Mc Kellen's Magneto have always worked fine for me. I'll even admit I'm fond of Pfeiffer's Catwoman (bad origin aside) and Dafoe's Green Goblin (who is sadly underrated).

[Dennis K]

Two-Face was a scarred schizo.


I stil think that Tommy Lee Jones is doing the worst impersonation of Jack Nicholson ever.

[The Batman]

the reason that i gave the FF a free pass in a way that i didn't give Batman Forever and Batman and Robin was because i'm not nearly as big an FF fan, and therefore has much less of an attatchment to the mythology, and because the FF movie, for all its flaws, was alot of fun. something that neither Batman movie really was.

oh and Jessica Alba in a skin tight FF uniform. i'm sorry but the woman is a goddess. :)

[Norrin Radd]

There still seems to be a double standard here.

[kalorama]

There still seems to be a double standard here.

It's not a double standard. They're two completely different movies. It's hardly surprising that the same person could see both and have different reactions/opinions of them.

[LtMarvel]

Batman and Robin failed to meet the high standards of the Batman or Batman Returns.

Fantastic Four didn't have a previous film in the franchise to compete with.

[IamtheRock3]

Well batman forever wasnt really bad

but it started the light happy batman..that Batman and Robin took to the extreme

So it lumped in with it.

[Athena Bast]

Yes he was. He wasn't Doom at all, that in itself, is a joke. It was like they decided to create a villian, using Dr Doom in name only. At least the Riddler used riddles, and Two-Face was a scarred schizo. He shot electricity........

Wasn't the Movie Doc Doom more in line with the Ultimate Doc Doom not the 616 Doc Doom?

[Erebus]

2 words : Jessica Alba
2 more word: Bat freakin nipples.

[Athena Bast]

All this debate over the merits of FF makes me wonder how much of a stinker Ghost Rider is going be.

FF was grounded a little more in reality. I can see FF being in the same New York as Spidey and the X-Men if just to put all the Marvel Movies together.

I frankly cannot see Superman having anything to do with Batman from Forever/Robin.

If you want to mention crappy superhero movie sequels why not drag out Superman 3 and 4. Supe3 is remembered for Richard Pryor and Annette O'Toole. Does anyone remember Supe4?

I like FF because Chiklis and Evans were AWESOME together. Jessica Alba was strong but not a cow/bitch. I just <3 Ioan Gruffold. Aside from which the movie relationship mirrors mine and my boyfriend's and how he got poked and prodded and shoved into making a move.

Frankly I see debating these movies like debating Super Mario Bros., Tomb Raider, Alone in the Dark, Resident Evil and BloodRayne.

[curefreak]

im not a fan of batman and robin but
i think it would have been better with a less jokey script.
and as far as ff i liked the human torch and the thing and felt like they nailed there respective roles and theyre chemistry so that was something that batman and robin didnt have.
theyres a lot to not like about ff but it wasnt as bad as batman and robin and most people on here have agreed with that.

[kalorama]

All this debate over the merits of FF makes me wonder how much of a stinker Ghost Rider is going be.

No wondering on my part. I'm certain it'll be awful. When even the trailer looks bad, you know that's a terrible sign.

[curefreak]

No wondering on my part. I'm certain it'll be awful. When even the trailer looks bad, you know that's a terrible sign.
and its the same director who ruined daredevil lets not forget.

[OverMaster]

and its the same director who ruined daredevil lets not forget.

Hey, I liked the Daredevil movie...

[kel25]

MSN is running an article on the best and worst superhero movies. I thought it might be interesting to add to this thread. I also added my thoughts on all the movies.

First I’ll do the best.
10) The Rocketeer: I loved this movie as a kid. So few pulp movies are made and this one was extremely good even though it is showing it’s age now.
9) Spy Kids: WTF?! This was never a comic was it? There is no way this even should make the list even if it was.
8) Hellboy: I have never read the comic so I cant compare them. On the other hand one of my favorite movie moments was when I went to this movie. During the opening when they tell you to turn off your phones the sound was messing up. It got slower, deeper, and louder so it sounded like Satan was telling you to keep the phones off. Overall I fond the movie to be enjoyable.
7) Inframan: Came out before I was born and I’ve never heard of it before. Makes me wonder if it really is that good.
6) Darkman: Nice movie about a non spandex hero.
5) Superman II: I think I’m all alone in the belief that all the Superman movies ever made are not that great and way to predictable. Only exception is the WTF moment with the cellophane S.
4) The Incredibles: Great little superhero spoof.
3) Spider-Man: Another very good movie but like all movies it is not perfect. It was another retelling of his origin and although it is a great place to start for a franchise I’ve seen/read his origin enough.
2) Batman Returns: See Spider-Man. Also no Bat nipples.
1) X-Men: Another semi origin movie but this one was more about Wolverine than the X-men. I’m also irritated that they have a hack continue to play Storm. Cant they find a good actress?

Now the worst
5) Hulk: Ok it was bad but I’ll give them credit for being different. The attempted comic book feel look bad and little Hulk time coupled with a weak villain character made this a stinker.
4) Fantastic Four: I’ve never read a lot of FF comics but I thought over all it was decent. The characters acted like I was expecting. The only down falls was that the final fight wasn’t all that great and I would have preferred that Doom’s powers were from his own invention than a genetic alter.
3) Catwoman: Wow she cant do Storm so lets have her try Catwoman. What a surprise the no talent hack fails again. Although I doubt even the most skilled of actresses could have done anything with such a crappy script.
2) Daredevil: This one surprises me because overall I found it enjoyable. There was a lot of scenes that I found visually great. Sure there were some parts in the movie that weren’t that good put overall it was far better than many other movies I’ve seen.
1) Batman and Robin: To quote MSN. “Four words: The Batsuit has nipples.” There was a lot more wrong with it than just that.

My question is how the hell Elektra did not make the list?! Did anyone even think this was good? After the opening Assassination I thought it could be a decent movie but OMG it wasn’t down hill after that point. It was free falling plummet of death. This is one of the worst movies I’ve ever seen in my life.

[curefreak]

Hey, I liked the Daredevil movie...
it wasnt the worst but it wasnt the best either.

[Jeremy A. Patterson]

The only free pass B & R got was in an episode of Nana Puddin, an obscure children's puppet show that is produced in Dallas, Texas! The character, Mr. Chilly-Pants refers that his favorite Batman movie villain was Arnie's Mr. Freeze!


That was a funny scene!



J.A.P.