View Full Version : If Will Smith had starred in The Matrix...
Norrin Radd
06-19-2006, 12:30 PM
Would it have been nearly as good as it was, or would it have been even better?
You might say it would have sucked due to Smith's dubious acting skills, but it's not like Reeves was (or is) considered a great talent.
BTW, Smith turned down the role of Neo in favour of starring in...
...wait for it...
...Wild Wild West.
Scorpion13
06-19-2006, 12:34 PM
If WWW had only a little bit more spirit or zing to it, it wouldnt have nearly sucked as bad.
But then the producer for it was the same guy Kevin Smith talkied about when writing the Superman script....
Donald Stone
06-19-2006, 12:53 PM
I think The Matrix would have been much better if the Bros had gotten the guy they had in mind when they wrote the thing to play Neo.
Brandon Lee.
Scorpion13
06-19-2006, 01:01 PM
I think it would have been better had they stopped at one friggin movie.
Dennis K
06-19-2006, 02:05 PM
If Will Smith had starred in it, there would have been a scene where he says "Oh Hell no."
Jamal
06-19-2006, 02:09 PM
I don't think he could have pulled off the fight scenes.
estee
06-19-2006, 02:10 PM
If Will Smith had starred in it, there would have been a scene where he says "Oh Hell no."
Yeah...instead of "Woe"
Dennis K
06-19-2006, 02:12 PM
I don't think he could have pulled off the fight scenes.
Why not? I think it was Eddie Murphy who said something to the effect that even he could be made to look like a badass in a movie.
Dennis K
06-19-2006, 02:12 PM
Yeah...instead of "Woe"
Flippin Sens
Legato
06-19-2006, 02:13 PM
I think The Matrix would have been much better if the Bros had gotten the guy they had in mind when they wrote the thing to play Neo.
Brandon Lee.
Brandon Lee's Neo: "I know Kung Fu?"
Me: "No sh*t you know kung fu."
Jamal
06-19-2006, 02:40 PM
Yeah well I've only seen Eddie look good fighting in one movie and that was 48 hour against Nick Nolte.
Even with the Ali role I just don't think Will Smith would be able to get the moves down without it looking sloppy.
Trust me I have some friends who worked on that movie and Keanen had a hard time getting it right. That why the contact in the last two looked so soft. Watch it again and you will see what I mean.
CaptainAwesome
06-19-2006, 02:45 PM
I think it would be ok if they didnt let Smith jerk around too much. Reeves had a sort of distance from the whole thing, like he was in awe the whole time. That and the fact that he is still trying to be taken seriously as an actor lead to a very simpathetic Neo. Smith was huge at that time, so he would probably make Neo a silly one liner type character.
Would it have been nearly as good as it was, or would it have been even better?
You might say it would have sucked due to Smith's dubious acting skills, but it's not like Reeves was (or is) considered a great talent.
BTW, Smith turned down the role of Neo in favour of starring in...
...wait for it...
...Wild Wild West.
People keep acting like it was the biggest mistake of his career to do Wild Wild West. If anything, Smith's still hangin' in there. His movies still pull in no less than a 100 million at the box office, even a romantic comedy like Hitch!! Can Keanu say that about his post-Matrix films? Critics and audiences haven't been very kind to The Lake House. They were equally unkind to Sweet November. And Something's Gotta Give wasn't his movie, so it don't count.
But back to Will and WWW, think about it: do another film with Barry Sonnenfeld after Men In Black decimates box office records two years earlier, or some trippy sci-fi flick with rookie filmmakers? From Keanu's standpoint, he didn't really have anything to lose by taking the risk. He wasn't on the career high Smith was on after Men In Black.
GRANT!
06-19-2006, 03:00 PM
People keep acting like it was the biggest mistake of his career to do Wild Wild West. If anything, Smith's still hangin' in there. His movies still pull in no less than a 100 million at the box office, even a romantic comedy like Hitch!! Can Keanu say that about his post-Matrix films? Critics and audiences haven't been very kind to The Lake House. They were equally unkind to Sweet November. And Something's Gotta Give wasn't his movie, so it don't count.
Constantine did really well.
GRANT!
06-19-2006, 03:04 PM
I think it would have done well I'd probably wouldn't have gone see it.
Brandon Lee's Neo: "I know Kung Fu?"
Me: "No sh*t you know kung fu."
Well actually Lee was a case of knowing someone who knew Kung Fu. His own "mastery" of the martial arts was somewhere between David Carradine and Eddie Murphy.
I wouldn't mind seeing Will Smith in the Matrix.
What I *would* mind are the music videos.
As well, it'd be kind of weird to see Will Smith address his opponent as 'Smith.' But, sometimes I do wonder what if Val Kilmer or Sean Connery didn't reject the Morpheus role when they were offered it.
For that matter, I really wish Jet Li took up the role of Seraph rather than make Cradle 2 Da Grave. Seeing Jet Li Vs. Brandon Lee would've been sweet. (hell, just seeing Jet Li Vs. Keanu Reeves would've been made the flick for me).
Jamal
06-19-2006, 03:46 PM
Please don't judge Brandon Lee Martial skill on the couple of movies he made.
Kung Fu Series/movie:
He had to fight a always terrible and old David Carradine
Rapid Fire: They tried to make him fight like his father to sell the movie ( the producers even came out and admited that one )
And The Crow: Was not a martial arts movie and he chose it to show that he could act. To bad he didn't live long enough to prove it.
Danny Inosano was his trainer for a lot of years after Bruce Lee died.
Lonewalker
06-19-2006, 04:07 PM
If Will had starred in The Matrix trilogy, then we probably wouldn't have been able of getting "jiggy" wit it. Though we did get Jada.
Jamal
06-19-2006, 04:24 PM
Blame the Jet Li thing on the W brothers, Jet was just blowing up at the time when they offered him way below his pay rate to be in the movie thinking he would take it because the matrix was so big at the time. Pissed me off because my class was very close to having him come train with us for a day:evilangry :evilangry :evilangry .
Who would have known that Cradle would have a bad script and even worst director.
Legato
06-19-2006, 04:31 PM
Now if thares one black actor I could see pulling the Matrix movies off well it would be Wesley Snipes.
Jamal
06-19-2006, 04:56 PM
The fights yes but it would look wierd having Fishborne as his mentor when they are so close in age.
Please don't judge Brandon Lee Martial skill on the couple of movies he made.
Kung Fu Series/movie:
He had to fight a always terrible and old David Carradine
Rapid Fire: They tried to make him fight like his father to sell the movie ( the producers even came out and admited that one )
And The Crow: Was not a martial arts movie and he chose it to show that he could act. To bad he didn't live long enough to prove it.
Danny Inosano was his trainer for a lot of years after Bruce Lee died.
It doesn't really matter given the context of the Matrix flicks. The fantasy martial arts they use comes with the territory, as does the fact that the stunt team trained non-fighters like Hugo Weaving and Keanu Reeves for months before they could film the fight scenes.
Blame the Jet Li thing on the W brothers, Jet was just blowing up at the time when they offered him way below his pay rate to be in the movie thinking he would take it because the matrix was so big at the time. Pissed me off because my class was very close to having him come train with us for a day:evilangry :evilangry :evilangry ..
Paycuts shouldn't matter to wealthy actors who love to act and have fun. Ocean's Eleven and Twelve had almost a dozen big-name actors and legends (including George Clooney and Julia Roberts) and they all gleefully took the paycuts to be part of something bigger.
Jamal
06-19-2006, 06:45 PM
Yeah but when your going to get 15 million to star in a movie when your looked at as the next big thing and someone offers 1 million for a cameo ( He was going to play the asian guy who fought Neo before the first million Smith battle ) it's hard to turn down the 15. Now was he right? Half and half, both movies ( Cradle and Matrix 2 ) sucked so in the end he's still 15 million richer.
But I'm still mad I didn't get to meet him!!!:evilangry
EZMOHR
06-19-2006, 08:42 PM
Wait, I always thought the role of Neo was specifically written for Leonardo DiCaprio. Or at least thats what the Washowski's said in an interview when The Matrix first came out. Instead, he decided to do The Beach.
Legato
06-19-2006, 09:10 PM
Wait, I always thought the role of Neo was specifically written for Leonardo DiCaprio. Or at least thats what the Washowski's said in an interview when The Matrix first came out. Instead, he decided to do The Beach.
Do you honestly want to see Leo doing those Kung Fu moves? Atleast with Keanu he did look badass while doing it but with Leo it would just look awkward .
Yeah but when your going to get 15 million to star in a movie when your looked at as the next big thing and someone offers 1 million for a cameo ( He was going to play the asian guy who fought Neo before the first million Smith battle ) it's hard to turn down the 15. Now was he right? Half and half, both movies ( Cradle and Matrix 2 ) sucked so in the end he's still 15 million richer.
But I'm still mad I didn't get to meet him!!!:evilangry
I can almost guarentee that even a small role in the Matrix (which he could've done, flown back, and do a different movie), would elevate one's reputation. Randall Duk Kim, who played the Keymaster and is already a stage star since the 1970s, had to turn down other stage roles simply because he gained so much prominence. And he didn't even survive into the third movie :)
And the actors in Ocean's Eleven all passed up bigger, more profitable projects so that they could be in both movies. They were essentially two big clubhouses for them. After that, Clooney got an Oscar nomination for directing two flicks, Matt Damon won the Bourne roles, Julia Roberts was asked to do Broadway (granted, she was bad, but still), Bernie Mac got his own TV show, etc. etc, partly because they passed up the bigger paycheck.
Jet Li also could've taken up the lead in Crouching Tiger, yet he passed on it to star in Romeo Must Die.
Bigger paycheck but horrible butchering by studio execs, whereas Crouching Tiger was nominated for a handful of Oscars.
The Mirrorball Man
06-19-2006, 09:42 PM
I'm torn. I think Keanu Reeve's vapidity worked really well in "The Matrix", actually. Although if Will Smith had starred in "Reloaded" and "Revolutions", these movies might have been slightly more entertaining.
Darth Joker
06-20-2006, 06:24 AM
The Matrix trilogy was actually the perfect movies for Keanu.
You need a certain... personality... to get Neo right, and Keanu has that personality to a tee. Will Smith is a better actor overall, but Keanu fits the Neo role much better. I honestly don't think Will could play it straight enough, as he's too used to comedic action roles.
Also, I think that Agent Smith would have looked less... badass with Will Smith trashtalking him.
You needed a certain seriousness amongst the main characters to get the Matrix right, and that's what both Keanu and Hugo Weaving brought.
darkwolf
06-20-2006, 07:02 AM
I agree with Dark Joker. Neo was the biggest part Keanu ever played and now he is associated to it.
Will Smith on Matrix ? That would be the end of his career. Neo was such a quiet, level headed, goo boy next door guy. I would never see Will play such a confining part. He is that happy, cocky and cool guy.
I'm glad Fishburne was chosen to play Morpheus. He his the coolest character of the Matrix Trilogy.
Too bad Revolutions and Reloaded were such flops ( storyline wise )
Darth Joker
06-20-2006, 07:14 AM
I honestly didn't see what was so bad about the third movie. The ending was... weak, but it wasn't as awful as some saw it, IMO.
The action scenes, particularly the final Neo/Smith fight, were awesome, in my opinion.
Admittably, I wasn't overly impressed with the 2nd movie.
Norrin Radd
06-20-2006, 08:54 AM
I honestly didn't see what was so bad about the third movie. The ending was... weak, but it wasn't as awful as some saw it, IMO.
The action scenes, particularly the final Neo/Smith fight, were awesome, in my opinion.
Admittably, I wasn't overly impressed with the 2nd movie.
A problem with the third movie was that they could have completely eliminated the first act (with Neo stuck in the subway/useless S&M club shootout) and practically nothing in the plot would have changed significantly. That's not very economical from a storytelling standpoint. It felt very tacked on.
Another huge problem was that we were not given any reason to care one bit for the underdeveloped characters of Zion or of their defense of the city, and that was a major part of the movie.
Yet another problem was that a bunch of shit happened (like Neo developing powers in the real world) that were not explained sufficiently in the least. I'm not from the school of thought that movies should explain everything, but come on...
EZMOHR
06-20-2006, 10:43 AM
Do you honestly want to see Leo doing those Kung Fu moves? Atleast with Keanu he did look badass while doing it but with Leo it would just look awkward .
Well, I didn't say that is what I wanted, but it's what the Washowski's wanted. Oh, and evidentley, Laurence Fishburne was their back-up plan for Morpheus. Orginally, VAL KILMER was supposed to play the part. Weird.
Well, I didn't say that is what I wanted, but it's what the Washowski's wanted. Oh, and evidentley, Laurence Fishburne was their back-up plan for Morpheus. Orginally, VAL KILMER was supposed to play the part. Weird.
Not really. I could easily buy Kilmer in that type of role. Nothing Fishburne had done before suggested to me that he could play Morpheus the way he ultimately did. Kilmer's always had that soft-spoken yet ominous quality to his speech that I can hear him saying Morpheus' dialogue easily.
Darth Joker
06-20-2006, 11:03 AM
A problem with the third movie was that they could have completely eliminated the first act (with Neo stuck in the subway/useless S&M club shootout) and practically nothing in the plot would have changed significantly. That's not very economical from a storytelling standpoint. It felt very tacked on.
Another huge problem was that we were not given any reason to care one bit for the underdeveloped characters of Zion or of their defense of the city, and that was a major part of the movie.
Yet another problem was that a bunch of shit happened (like Neo developing powers in the real world) that were not explained sufficiently in the least. I'm not from the school of thought that movies should explain everything, but come on...
Ok, those are all fair complaints. I myself felt that most of the characters of Zion came off as unlikeable, and/or unknown.
I guess that in the third movie I simply wanted to see a coherent plot, and some good action scenes involving Neo and Smith. It largely delivered on that level, but I see your complaints.
Norrin Radd
06-20-2006, 11:39 AM
Ok, those are all fair complaints. I myself felt that most of the characters of Zion came off as unlikeable, and/or unknown.
I guess that in the third movie I simply wanted to see a coherent plot, and some good action scenes involving Neo and Smith. It largely delivered on that level, but I see your complaints.
No prob. Smith and Neo scenes weren't too bad, even if they didn't have the emotional charge of the ones in the first movie.
Another major complaint I had was that Morpheus was shoved into the background. He's a popular and major character and yet in Revolutions his big job was essentially being the co-pilot for Jada Pinkett Smith. :rolleyes:
The Mirrorball Man
06-20-2006, 11:41 AM
Another major complaint I had was that Morpheus was shoved into the background. He's a popular and major character and yet in Revolutions his big job was essentially being the co-pilot for Jada Pinkett Smith. :rolleyes:
... which makes him the first character in history to turn from Ben Kenobi to Chewbacca.
Valmore
06-20-2006, 12:42 PM
Will Smith is way too smart to play a dopey, "Duh, what duh hell is dis?" character like Neo.
JeffreyWKramer
06-20-2006, 05:36 PM
I think it would have been better had they stopped at one friggin movie.
It was planned as a trilogy from the beginning.
And, while many don't like where the second and third movies went, one has to give props to the W brothers for actually a) having a coherent plan and vision, some themes they actually wanted to do movies about, rather than just wanting to make a lot of money, and b) carrying through with said plan.
I think it's fair to debate the extent to which their overall vision ended up being well-implemented, but I think it would be great if more people tried to make movies about actual themes, rather than just doing endless remakes of old TV shows and sequels to successful film franchises.
JeffreyWKramer
06-20-2006, 05:38 PM
I don't think he could have pulled off the fight scenes.
None of the principal MATRIX actors knew squat about fighting before they made the movie. They were all trained from scratch in kung-fu, cinematic/stunt fighting, wire work, etc. No reason to assume Smith couldn't have done the same.
Catman
06-21-2006, 02:08 AM
Will Smith in The Matrix?
Thanks, but no thanks.
I find the guy to be completely annoying.
Keanu>Will
Donald Stone
06-21-2006, 07:35 AM
It was planned as a trilogy from the beginning.
Well the Bros say it was planned as a trilogy, but everyone says that now when they start making sequels.
JeffreyWKramer
06-21-2006, 09:01 AM
Well the Bros say it was planned as a trilogy, but everyone says that now when they start making sequels.
Everyone involved with the project, including the conceptual artists (Geoff Darrow and others), the studio, etc. have said all along that THE MATRIX was envisioned from the start, by the Bros., as a trilogy. The studio took the "let's worry about one movie first" stance, and for good reason, but that doesn't change the fact that from the start, Los Bros W envisioned the project as a trilogy.
This is also consistent w/ the Bros W being big ol' fantasy and comics geeks, and it's also conceptually consistent with the philosophical and mytho-theological underpinings of the MATRIX films. It's likely some important details changed between conception and implementation, but the basic conceptual framework was there from the start.
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