Superman 1 Season only in the 80's...

[Ontir]

Remember the Wolfman written, Gil Kane model sheeted cartoon, I think it ran on CBS for one season, then fell off the face of the Earth? Is anyone showing it, is there any shot of a DVD? If it's not out now, it should be soon!

[DWEarhart]

I totally remember this. It's the one that had the tales of when he was a kid at the end of every show, right?

I have not seen it since it first ran on CBS, anywhere. There isn't a DVD out, and I'm pretty sure someone would have to pay some money to get the rights from someone else to put it out.

I really enjoyed it, and am hoping someone does something about getting it out.

[LordEd1976]

I totally remember this. It's the one that had the tales of when he was a kid at the end of every show, right?

I have not seen it since it first ran on CBS, anywhere. There isn't a DVD out, and I'm pretty sure someone would have to pay some money to get the rights from someone else to put it out.

I really enjoyed it, and am hoping someone does something about getting it out.

I think those segments with him as a kid were called Adventures in Smallville or something like that.

I remember that show. It was my first taste of post-Crisis Superman. It was the show that gave me my first look at businessman Luthor. I also remember Wonder Woman did a guest shot and it was the first time I saw her fly instead of use the Invisible Jet. She even teamed with Supes for a PSA that then used as a commercial for I believe the Boys and Girls Club.

I also remember the guy did the voice of Superman was later the voice of Mister Fantastic in that 90s Fantastic Four cartoon and in one episode of the Incredible Hulk. I think his name was Beau Weaver.

I hope it comes out on DVD. It had a cool theme.

[Ryan K]

Maybe now that Warner has finished releasing Superman: The Animated Series (Vol. 3 this Tuesday) they'll release this next.

[DWEarhart]

It's possible, but I'm not sure if they have the rights to the series. It came out when DC wasn't a part of Warner Bros. Character rights are one thing, but television, DVD rights, all that is another ballgame.

I hope it happens. I really enjoyed it.

[rick]

Remember the Wolfman written, Gil Kane model sheeted cartoon, I think it ran on CBS for one season, then fell off the face of the Earth? Is anyone showing it, is there any shot of a DVD? If it's not out now, it should be soon!

Thinking back on this series, I could have sworn that it was on the air several years before the Byrne Retcon.

However, as I also recall several of the ideas that Marv Wolfman introuduced in that cartoon were later brought along in the mid-80's revamp.

Is that correct or am I just getting senile?

[rick]

It's possible, but I'm not sure if they have the rights to the series. It came out when DC wasn't a part of Warner Bros. Character rights are one thing, but television, DVD rights, all that is another ballgame.

I hope it happens. I really enjoyed it.

Warner has owned DC since at least the late 1970's so they almost certainly would have the rights.

[DWEarhart]

Warner has owned DC since at least the late 1970's so they almost certainly would have the rights.

Cool. Then something's up. With Superman Returns looming ahead, you'd think it would be out. You have the Clark and Lois Season ?? coming out, Superman TAS coming out.

Maybe they'll wait for the Superman Returns DVD, and put it out around then.

[Albert]

I don't recall the show, but you've certainly whet my appetite for it. Hopefully it will be included in the Superman Megacollection I hear that's coming out in December.

Does anyone recall any villains that appeared in this.. other than Lex, which has to be a given.

[GRANT!]

I remember the show. I'm kind of wondering what happened to it. There's a lot DCU stuff that hasn't been released like the old Filmation Batman cartoon or the Superman, Aquaman and Green Lantern cartoons. Maybe the original video tapes or film stock are lost.

[Bouncing Boy]

I own a bootleg copy of it on VHS that I picked up at a comic-con.

[Ryan K]

Maybe they'll wait for the Superman Returns DVD, and put it out around then.

Doubtful. Warner has a site, Year of the Superman (http://www.warnervideo.com/yearofsuperman/) which shows every Superman related DVD they're releasing for each quarter. This isn't listed Maybe they just don't want to flood the market with Superman DVD's (though they're damn close to).

[Ontir]

Wolfman's Brainiac was one of the villains, IIRC. The robotic guy who matched the then new death's head spaceship. i think there were Mr. Mxyztplk and a Bizarro eps as well.

I believe it was broadcast at the point that Superman and Wonder Woman were beginning their re-boots, but I'm not certain.

[Scorpion13]

I remember that show. It was pretty good, although only Luthor was in it.

Odd, it almost never, ever gets mentioned when they talk about Superman cartoons.

[Jared]

I was just thinking about this show yesterday, and was going to start a thread about it. ISTR that Luthor had the kyrptonite ring at some point.

[Ontir]

Yeah, that was one of Byrne's touches.

I'm not sure why this show is ignored as it seems to be by Warner's. Maybe they licensed it, and weren't happy with it, for some reason. It'd be cool if Wolfman were online and could give us some feedback, a la Martin Pasko!

[Rob Imes]

The show was post-Crisis, aired in 1988. You can find more info at
http://www.tv.com/superman-1988/show/12461/summary.html
Apparently there were only 13 episodes in the series.

I taped one episode off the TV at the time, and also the one guest-starring Wonder woman in progress, around 5 minutes into the show (once I saw that WW was in it).

Heck, if "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends" hasn't even come out on DVD yet, then chances are not good for this series either.

[MartinPasko]

I'm not sure why this show is ignored as it seems to be by Warner's. Maybe they licensed it, and weren't happy with it, for some reason. It'd be cool if Wolfman were online and could give us some feedback, a la Martin Pasko!

I'm not Marv Wolfman, obviously, but I can tell you a bit about this because I wrote an episode. This show was produced in 1988, in the middle of a Writers Guild strike, so I was happy to get an offer from the show -- which happened because, not only was Marv an old buddy, but the show was produced by Ruby-Spears (this was before the creation of WB TV Animation), for whom I'd done a lot of work on staff earlier in the decade, on THUNDARR, MR. T, and quite a few other shows.

This ran on CBS in the 1988-89 season. CBS's head of children's programming at the time, Judy Price, was always uncomfortable with action-adventure; she had no feel for it, but this didn't deter her from her usual hands-on approach, which involved breaking the stories in late-night phone calls with the creative exec producer, Joe Ruby. These plots usually had enough in them for five acts (and animated half-hours are usually only two; occasionally three, with one of the acts playing more like a teaser). Joe and Judy's concoctions were always difficult to execute, because they were the product of two competing wannabe-creative sensibilities kitchen-sinking the story to death.

Matters were complicated by the fact that after the "approved premise" was handed over for scripting (by staff or outside writers like me, and rewrites by story editor Wolfman and his assistant, Cherie Wilkerson), the editors had to try to reinsert (that is, into the scripts Marv didn't write himself) a number of Superman proprietary elements that Judy wanted left out of the show (because she wanted the "classic" mythology, not the post-Crisis retcon). But Marv needed to tap-dance to effect a compromise between CBS and DC Comics, which had right of story approval, and wanted to see the series reflect more of the concurrent comics content. If the series has an odd feel to it, like it's creatively pulling in more than one direction, this is why.

Unless this was a bizarre exception to the rule, DC Comics would own the copyright in the material, as it does on all Superman media. But I can't recall whether Warner Bros. has the home vid rights. In any event, in the '90s it would not have been in WB's best interest to exploit the 13 half-hours, as Warner Animation was doing its own Superman show (the Bruce Timm thing that aired beginning in '95), and the latter show was of such superior quality that the comparison would have been laughable. Unless the upcoming SUPERMAN campaign creates such a feeding frenzy for Superman-related product that WB could be persuaded that pursuing the '88 series is viable, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to reappear anywhere in the near term.

[DDM]

I love cartoons, but since this show came out in 1988, I "grew out" of cartoons for a long period beginning when I turned 16 which was 1988. Ironically, I had no problem reading comic books though. This was a time I shunned all of my Transformers & G.I. Joe in favor of comic books...

No wonder I don't remember it.

[The Batman]

i remember this series too but it rarely ever gets any mention. for example, the recent Superman documentary that aired on A&E didn't discuss it. for the longest time i'd thought this was something that my 11 year old mind had made up. glad to see that isn't the case,

it'd be nice to see this out on DVD.

[Sean Whitmore]

If this isn't out, then what is this DVD (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F9T76Y/qid=1150909608/sr=1-24/ref=sr_1_24/002-4119192-7120808?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=dvd&v=glance&n=130) I keep seeing every time I go to the store?


SEAN

[rick]

If this isn't out, then what is this DVD (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F9T76Y/qid=1150909608/sr=1-24/ref=sr_1_24/002-4119192-7120808?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=dvd&v=glance&n=130) I keep seeing every time I go to the store?


SEAN

Those are the old Fleisher Cartoons, which are all availble under public domain.

[Ryan K]

If this isn't out, then what is this DVD (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F9T76Y/qid=1150909608/sr=1-24/ref=sr_1_24/002-4119192-7120808?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=dvd&v=glance&n=130) I keep seeing every time I go to the store?


SEAN

I'm fairly certain that's just another public domain release of the Fleischer cartoons. There were 17 of them if you include the "lost" episodes.

[rick]

I'm not Marv Wolfman, obviously, but I can tell you a bit about this because I wrote an episode. This show was produced in 1988, in the middle of a Writers Guild strike, so I was happy to get an offer from the show -- which happened because, not only was Marv an old buddy, but the show was produced by Ruby-Spears (this was before the creation of WB TV Animation), for whom I'd done a lot of work on staff earlier in the decade, on THUNDARR, MR. T, and quite a few other shows.

This ran on CBS in the 1988-89 season. CBS's head of children's programming at the time, Judy Price, was always uncomfortable with action-adventure; she had no feel for it, but this didn't deter her from her usual hands-on approach, which involved breaking the stories in late-night phone calls with the creative exec producer, Joe Ruby. These plots usually had enough in them for five acts (and animated half-hours are usually only two; occasionally three, with one of the acts playing more like a teaser). Joe and Judy's concoctions were always difficult to execute, because they were the product of two competing wannabe-creative sensibilities kitchen-sinking the story to death.

Matters were complicated by the fact that after the "approved premise" was handed over for scripting (by staff or outside writers like me, and rewrites by story editor Wolfman and his assistant, Cherie Wilkerson), the editors had to try to reinsert (that is, into the scripts Marv didn't write himself) a number of Superman proprietary elements that Judy wanted left out of the show (because she wanted the "classic" mythology, not the post-Crisis retcon). But Marv needed to tap-dance to effect a compromise between CBS and DC Comics, which had right of story approval, and wanted to see the series reflect more of the concurrent comics content. If the series has an odd feel to it, like it's creatively pulling in more than one direction, this is why.

Unless this was a bizarre exception to the rule, DC Comics would own the copyright in the material, as it does on all Superman media. But I can't recall whether Warner Bros. has the home vid rights. In any event, in the '90s it would not have been in WB's best interest to exploit the 13 half-hours, as Warner Animation was doing its own Superman show (the Bruce Timm thing that aired beginning in '95), and the latter show was of such superior quality that the comparison would have been laughable. Unless the upcoming SUPERMAN campaign creates such a feeding frenzy for Superman-related product that WB could be persuaded that pursuing the '88 series is viable, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to reappear anywhere in the near term.

Thank you very much for all the inside info.

It is of course, always cool to hear the real scoop about the ins and outs of actually getting a story produced.

And forgive me for a quick slide into fanboyism, but I just wanted to say that I have always been a huge fan of your writing and it is a real pleasure to see you posting here at CBR.

[Sean Whitmore]

I had no idea the Fleischer cartoons were public domain. I know the rule for intellectual properties is the death of the creator plus however many years, but what's the process with production rights like this?


SEAN

[rick]

I had no idea the Fleischer cartoons were public domain. I know the rule for intellectual properties is the death of the creator plus however many years, but what's the process with production rights like this?


SEAN


I don't know the actual details but as I understand the basics, at one point Paramount somehow managed to let all of their animated films fall into the public domain. Which is why you can get old Popeye and Betty Boop cartoons so cheaply on DVD.

[Sean Whitmore]

I don't know the actual details but as I understand the basics, at one point Paramount somehow managed to let all of their animated films fall into the public domain. Which is why you can get old Popeye and Betty Boop cartoons so cheaply on DVD.


I see. So this wasn't a naturally occuring thing, this was somebody at Paramount goofed up at some point.


SEAN

[Ontir]

Thanks Martin. The thing that always stuck out the most to me, was the Gil Kane model sheets, and if for no other reason than completion of a set, I'd love to see a DVD of the run.

[Buzz Dixon]

I had no idea the Fleischer cartoons were public domain. I know the rule for intellectual properties is the death of the creator plus however many years, but what's the process with production rights like this?
At the time the Fleischer SUPERMAN shorts were made, copyright had to be formally registered and lasted only 28 years or so, with one option for renewal. While the underlying copyright and trademarks for the specific characters in SUPERMAN remains in DC's grasp, the specific images created for the Fleischer series lapsed into the public domain some years back, if they were ever copyrighted at all (a lot of studios never bothered with copyright, figuring movies were emphemeral product that rarely had a lifespan beyond a few years).

The laws have since changed, but an enormous amount of written, drawn, and filmed material is in the public domain.

[bfrank]

I had a few of these eps (including the WW's, I think there were two) on a tape that I picked up from Geoffrey's comics in Gardena, CA....I converted them to DVD, but I don't know where the DVD's are......gotta bust out the tapes and re-do.....

[TMC1982]

I very want to see this particular series. Ruby-Spears, who produced the Mr. T cartoon, "Alvin and the Chipmunks", "Thundarr the Barbarian", and "Turbo Teen", produced that particular Superman series. I'm curious what Ruby-Spears would've done with Batman since the Tim Burton/Michael Keaton motion picture was going to be released a year later.

I'm guessing that part of the reasons why the 1988 Superman animated series hasn't been televised in years or released on DVD/home video yet so that it didn't detract from the then-on going DC Animated Universe.