The ultimate MMORPG [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

Xero Kaiser

06-19-2006, 07:47 AM

Oh hell, let me toss some ideas in there

I'd like more MMOs that don't blow ass. No video game genre other than MMOs would even pretend that sitting in the same spot/dungeon for weeks or even months on end killing the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again so a sword with slightly better stats will finally drop is anything that even remotely resembles fun.

I'd like a combat system that doesn't put me to sleep. Even something simple like Fable's battle system would be nice, let's just move past this "auto-attack" crap. And while we're doing that let's move past the Everquest 1 model of progression. Not having anything to do....ever, unless it's raid night is beyond lame. And let's pretend that people who aren't in big raiding guilds exist and that they want something to do too.

And stop charging me. If Guild Wars is free and has just as much content (if not more in some respects), you'd better have DAMN good reason to make me pay.

In short: **** every MMO that isn't Guild Wars

J Dog

06-19-2006, 08:18 AM

I really believe that there should be a MMOG or a MMORPG out there that appeals to all groups, even the ones who aren't into magic and beasts. Unfortunately, we're asking for more than we can take in.

Michael P

06-19-2006, 11:55 AM

Hopefully in the future, they'll make a game where there will be so many different type of characters you can be that no one will have the same character.
Never happen. The number of possible combinations could be practically infinite, and the game would still be choked with identical iterations of whatever race/class was easiest to munchkin the hell out of, had the highest "kewl" factor, closest resembled Drizz't f****** Do'Urden, etc.

If you want a truly diverse player-created world, the first thing you need to change is the players.

Lazy_Fiend

06-19-2006, 05:57 PM

*cough*
World of Warcraft Rules
*cough*

Lazy_Fiend

06-19-2006, 05:57 PM

*cough*
World of Warcraft Rules
*cough*

the ultimate

06-20-2006, 01:55 AM

have you people heard of the mmo dc is doing? suppose to be pretty tight

Xero Kaiser

06-20-2006, 08:03 AM

*cough*
World of Warcraft Rules
*cough*

WoW = half-assed Everquest

Alex

06-20-2006, 10:52 AM

WoW = half-assed Everquest
As someone who played everquest for a good while and now play wow, i can safely say you are very wrong.

Bobster777

06-20-2006, 12:37 PM

Yeah, Everquest and WoW are both great in their own right. I love playing them both.

Xero Kaiser

06-20-2006, 01:05 PM

As someone who played everquest for a good while and now play wow, i can safely say you are very wrong.

As someone who also played everquest for a good while and am now playing WoW, I stand by my statement. As everything that separated WoW from other MMOs like EQ has been pushed to the side while they've spent the past year or so focusing on the same "raidraidraidiraid" mindset that benefits nobody but big raiding guilds. This doesn't even feel like a Warcraft game anymore. Just "Generic_Fantasy_MMO_#46".

The PvP aspect has been ruined ever since they added those retarded DKs. The emphasis on fast gameplay for everyone has been replaced grinding the same dungeon for months and months and months on end only to turn around and spend the next few months in the same one dungeon, with some rep grinding on the side. And the PvP class-balance is a mess thanks to the gear imbalance and their "we don't balance for 1v1" mentality that results in all kinds of ridiculous mismatches

So yes....half-assed Everquest

Gezora

06-21-2006, 01:17 PM

Referring to my Maple Story joke....

I rest my case. Not a single person on this board knows what the hell I'm talking about, and if they do, they hate it.

Alex

06-21-2006, 04:27 PM

As someone who also played everquest for a good while and am now playing WoW, I stand by my statement. As everything that separated WoW from other MMOs like EQ has been pushed to the side while they've spent the past year or so focusing on the same "raidraidraidiraid" mindset that benefits nobody but big raiding guilds. This doesn't even feel like a Warcraft game anymore. Just "Generic_Fantasy_MMO_#46".

The PvP aspect has been ruined ever since they added those retarded DKs. The emphasis on fast gameplay for everyone has been replaced grinding the same dungeon for months and months and months on end only to turn around and spend the next few months in the same one dungeon, with some rep grinding on the side. And the PvP class-balance is a mess thanks to the gear imbalance and their "we don't balance for 1v1" mentality that results in all kinds of ridiculous mismatches

So yes....half-assed Everquest
The end game grind is annoying, i avoid it altogether actually, but thats been a common reality since warcraft started, you get to endgame, you grind for gear so you can pvp, or you grind pvp to get the epic sets.
The world events, like the current scourge invasion, offer new content in ways i never saw in a mmorpg, they actually refer to story points. And yes, these basicly just lead to new end game instances, but it's neat seeing giant floating scourge castles outside of the major cities.
The gear imbalance is there, but i never saw that as unfair (And this is speaking as a guy who has a level 60 with crap gear). the truth of it is, those people who work to grind for hours and hours, they deserve to have better gear then the rest of us, and they should be able to kick our asses with their gear that took them 5 months of raiding to get.
I admit im talking about EQ2, which i quit to play wow. That game had two major cities, and that was one of the most annoying aspects. The pvp system still doesn't top battlegrounds, and wow doesn't have one all powerful class at 60.
A great player can beat a better equipped player, and an under equipped team is fully able to beat a better equipped team in Alterac.
But i also know im talking just for me and my friends who play wow, i was in wow beta, it didn't grab me, and i decided to go with EQ2. Played it for 4 months, and got bored and frustrated. (though, it was very pretty to look at)
Started wow, and i haven't stopped, and i've never felt the need to grind out gear for days on end.

Xero Kaiser

06-22-2006, 06:21 AM

The world events, like the current scourge invasion, offer new content in ways i never saw in a mmorpg, they actually refer to story points.

You must not have played many MMOs, because that's a fairly basic thing. Even EQ1 had things like this (they happened more often too)

the truth of it is, those people who work to grind for hours and hours, they deserve to have better gear then the rest of us

That's because they're the only ones who even have the option of advancing their gear. If you play the game as much as anyone else and grind and practice but you're not lucky enough to be in a raiding guild, you're saying that you don't deserve to advance just because of that? Nobody "deserves" anything because they're in 'X' guild instead of 'Y' guild, that's crap. Even crafting is mostly reserved for raiding guilds. Yes, I expected there to be a gap, but the fact that the gap is this extreme, this early into the game's life is mindblowing. And then they've gone and made it even bigger with the addition of Tier 3. We're already at the point where anyone not wearing Tier 2 gear is getting killed in 2-shots.

The pvp system still doesn't top battlegrounds

Battlegrounds are horrible. WSG and AB have the most basic maps you could possibly design and we've been stuck with that for a year now.

A great player can beat a better equipped player

Unless the better equipped player is an idiot or AFK, no they can't. This isn't like a fighting game or an FPS where it's 100% skill. It's numbers, invisible dice rolls, gear and some luck. It's a MMO, you don't have to be good...merely competent. If the better equipped player has several thousand more HPs, hits more than 2x as hard and more armor, I'd really like to know what amount of "skill" can overcome that. I've been on both sides of the fence in that situation. And unless the planets align, the guy with better gear will damn near always win. It's just a simple matter of being able to overwhelm the other player. If, say, a rogue walks up to me in anything less than Tier 2 epic gear, they will lose because I will kill them in 3 hits. No amount of skill is changing that

And in case you think this is just penis-envy talking, my guild's just short of starting BWL. But this still sucks. I'm waiting to see what the 1.12 patch will have before I just say, "to hell with this game" for good, but I don't have much faith

hoffmandu

06-22-2006, 06:49 AM

You must not have played many MMOs, because that's a fairly basic thing. Even EQ1 had things like this (they happened more often too)

That's because they're the only ones who even have the option of advancing their gear. If you play the game as much as anyone else and grind and practice but you're not lucky enough to be in a raiding guild, you're saying that you don't deserve to advance just because of that? Nobody "deserves" anything because they're in 'X' guild instead of 'Y' guild, that's crap. Even crafting is mostly reserved for raiding guilds. Yes, I expected there to be a gap, but the fact that the gap is this extreme, this early into the game's life is mindblowing. And then they've gone and made it even bigger with the addition of Tier 3. We're already at the point where anyone not wearing Tier 2 gear is getting killed in 2-shots.

Battlegrounds are horrible. WSG and AB have the most basic maps you could possibly design and we've been stuck with that for a year now.

Unless the better equipped player is an idiot or AFK, no they can't. This isn't like a fighting game or an FPS where it's 100% skill. It's numbers, invisible dice rolls, gear and some luck. It's a MMO, you don't have to be good...merely competent. If the better equipped player has several thousand more HPs, hits more than 2x as hard and more armor, I'd really like to know what amount of "skill" can overcome that. I've been on both sides of the fence in that situation. And unless the planets align, the guy with better gear will damn near always win. It's just a simple matter of being able to overwhelm the other player. If, say, a rogue walks up to me in anything less than Tier 2 epic gear, they will lose because I will kill them in 3 hits. No amount of skill is changing that

And in case you think this is just penis-envy talking, my guild's just short of starting BWL. But this still sucks. I'm waiting to see what the 1.12 patch will have before I just say, "to hell with this game" for good, but I don't have much faith

Jealous much?

Xero Kaiser

06-22-2006, 07:15 AM

Of what exactly? The 40-man raids I've been doing since last year? No, not really. I just hate that the game's focus has shifted to that

Dreadstar

06-22-2006, 07:55 AM

The PvP aspect has been ruined ever since they added those retarded DKs.

It all comes into focus now...

kentonator

06-22-2006, 11:33 AM

It all comes into focus now...

no kidding, he is probably trolling wow forums making threads to Nerf every class that beats him in pvp because he suxorz and cant get teh phat lewt!

Leslie Lee III

06-22-2006, 11:41 AM

So, yeah, Guild Wars is pretty awesome. It was my first MMORPG and Xero seems to be complaining about a lot of the things that made me wait so long to get into MMORPG. I really have no time or interest in playing forever just to have a chance later on.

Xero Kaiser

06-22-2006, 11:43 AM

no kidding, he is probably trolling wow forums making threads to Nerf every class that beats him in pvp because he suxorz and cant get teh phat lewt!

Wait....how does hating DKs tie into wanting classes nerfed or me sucking? Wait...I thought I was jealous of the raids that I actually go on?

You guys need a minute to sort this all out?

Dreadstar

06-22-2006, 11:51 AM

You guys need a minute to sort this all out?
Nah, I think I got a handle on it.

I mean, my kid used to like ganking the n00bs as they came out of the Den, too.

Xero Kaiser

06-22-2006, 12:01 PM

You can't gank anyone in or around the Den and my main is on the Medivh server, which makes it hard to gank anyone. Putting that aside, what does your kid have to do with anything?

Oh I get it. I enjoy PvP so, naturally, I only kill noobs. Give me a break. I hate DKs because I'm penalized for doing what used to be the best part of the game. I hate DKs because people "fight" by hiding behind civilians and shooting at you from a safe distance. I hate DKs because town raids now consist of people standing by the gates, shooting guards and hoping someone bites. I hate DKs because it flies in the face of what Warcraft games are usually about

Nothing to do with "ganking noobs", your kid or whatever other stupid little insult you think makes you sound clever

kentonator

06-22-2006, 12:07 PM

dread is saying that Ganking noobs is a kiddy and immature thing to do, and so thats why the implemented DK's. Its no fun for the people trying to level if you just have a 60 chillin out killing you when you run buy, so the 60s will get punished for it.

No need to complain about it, and the DK's dont have anything to do with complaining about nerfing, I was refering to the fact that you think gear is everything, while it is a big part, you can still beformidable with good to decent gear and great comprehension of your class vs. another type of class. You just put all the blame on gear when its your fault as a player.

kentonator

06-22-2006, 12:09 PM

oh, and why whine and complain about the game not being what you want? if you dont like it, dont pay the 14 a month and dont play the game....its that simple, then you wont be on forums complaining a game that you play. Cause they arnt gonna change it for you when tons of others are happy with the way the game is. Do us all a favor and drop your computer out of your window.

Dreadstar

06-22-2006, 12:18 PM

Xero Kaiser

06-22-2006, 01:23 PM

dread is saying that Ganking noobs is a kiddy and immature thing to do, and so thats why the implemented DK's. Its no fun for the people trying to level if you just have a 60 chillin out killing you when you run buy, so the 60s will get punished for it.

Except DKs don't actually work out like that. If some 60 decides to corpse camp you, DKs won't prevent or penalize that. I could corpse camp people all day and not get a single DK. So if that was the intent, they failed miserably

I was refering to the fact that you think gear is everything, while it is a big part, you can still beformidable with good to decent gear and great comprehension of your class vs. another type of class. You just put all the blame on gear when its your fault as a player.

I've got good gear, I know how to play, I know my class but when you get 2-shotted there's not much you can do. You just die before you ever really get to fight back. There's a huge difference in PvP at lvl 60 because of the gear imbalance. Why do you think lvl 19-29 alt pvp became so popular? Because the fights happen on more equal ground. You're talking about people wearing lvl ~55 gear vs people in lvl 80-90 gear. They're not comparable. A mage in green/blue gear hits for about 700-1000. I routinely ran into mages and warlocks that could nuke for nearly 2500 damage. There are warriors out there that can literally hit 2 to 3 times harder than me (and I've got mix of blues and epics) And you think that's not going to make a difference? You're insane

oh, and why whine and complain about the game not being what you want?

'cuz it used to be better. That, and I can

if you dont like it, dont pay the 14 a month and dont play the game....

I don't anymore. But this is a topic about MMOs and WoW came up, so here I am

Do us all a favor and drop your computer out of your window

Only if you promise to jump out of yours

Conn Seanery

06-22-2006, 03:22 PM

Er, isn't this thread about people's personal opinions about what they think is the best MMORPG? Maybe some people should, oh, I don't know, calm down?

Personally, there's lots of areas left to explore as far as MMORPGs are concerned, lots of genres left untapped. I think the perfect game would be something that would combine all the best elements: strategy, action, story, great visual effects and playability. How about a gangland type setting where you have to control "turf". A Mad Max type deal, post apocalyptic setting where you assemble or steal your mode of transport and resources. How about a new version of Syndicate, where corporations battle it out with high tech goons? Shadowrun? Some kind of online Dynasty Warriors: Empires type deal (with a real Nobunaga's Ambition/Romance of the Three Kingdoms feel).

titanfan

06-22-2006, 05:11 PM

Go to Devry, get a degree, make it yourself, and make millions. Thank me later.

Sadly, that's one of the things you can't do anymore. In the old days--it was so easy. A lot of the most popular games were done by one or two programmers and they were hits. These days--the scopes of games are so huge and the budget of some of the gaming companies are so big--that it's almost impossible to compete. What's most likely to happen is that he'd go to Devry, get a degree and start at an entry level game programming job at 50-80k.

How many MMO's actually make money? Seems like most of them eventually fold. Only the big companies seem to be able to stay afloat with them.

Gezora

06-22-2006, 10:03 PM

Sadly, that's one of the things you can't do anymore. In the old days--it was so easy. A lot of the most popular games were done by one or two programmers and they were hits. These days--the scopes of games are so huge and the budget of some of the gaming companies are so big--that it's almost impossible to compete. What's most likely to happen is that he'd go to Devry, get a degree and start at an entry level game programming job at 50-80k.

How many MMO's actually make money? Seems like most of them eventually fold. Only the big companies seem to be able to stay afloat with them.
Well, I've certainly been put in my place. I mean, it's blatantly obvious that I have no idea what I'm talking about. God, I shouldn't be allowed to live, what with my being so murderously stupid and all.

....

Just kidding.

But seriously, am I the only one on this entire board who plays Maple Story? 'Cause that's kind of embarassing....

macul

06-23-2006, 12:22 PM

Give me quests that are actually heroic in nature. I mean, you can only expect me to gather so many bear pelts before the game loses its appeal.

Super Samurai

06-23-2006, 10:24 PM

Well, I've certainly been put in my place. I mean, it's blatantly obvious that I have no idea what I'm talking about. God, I shouldn't be allowed to live, what with my being so murderously stupid and all.

....

Just kidding.

But seriously, am I the only one on this entire board who plays Maple Story? 'Cause that's kind of embarassing....

I play Maple Story, though I'm very new to it. I'm only at level 12 and still a beginner. How long u been playin?

Gezora

06-24-2006, 02:45 AM

I play Maple Story, though I'm very new to it. I'm only at level 12 and still a beginner. How long u been playin?
SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!! I'm no longer alone! WHEEEEEEEEEE!!!

Neat.

Anyway, I've been playing for little over a year now. I started on MapleSEA, but I stopped for a about two months when my computer crashed. I restarted on Maple Global and have been playing that ever since.

I have two level 24 characters in Broa, Perillax and TheCrowsEye.

Buddy request me. Now.

Super Samurai

06-24-2006, 10:24 AM

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!! I'm no longer alone! WHEEEEEEEEEE!!!

Neat.

Anyway, I've been playing for little over a year now. I started on MapleSEA, but I stopped for a about two months when my computer crashed. I restarted on Maple Global and have been playing that ever since.

I have two level 24 characters in Broa, Perillax and TheCrowsEye.

Buddy request me. Now.

Sorry man I'm in Khaini.

Gezora

06-24-2006, 10:26 AM

Sorry man I'm in Khaini.
Awww. And we could have had so much fun ksing little nooblets.

Oh well, life goes on.

Finn

06-29-2006, 11:08 AM

kel25

07-02-2006, 12:00 AM

I had this cool (or at least I thought it was cool) idea for an MMORPG thats basically the Age of Apocalypse. You make a character, with something like CoH+CoV for character creation, then you pick your side, which could be X-Men, X-Ternals, X-Calibre, Generation Next, The Outcasts, Apocalypse's goons, the Elite Mutant Force, or the Human High Council

Oh yeah, the gameplay: Pretty much the same as any MMORPG, go around, kill stuff, I actually like raiding, and it would be much MUCH better if it was on a system (non-PC) and it was all real-time combat, none of this taking turns bull

Yes I’ve wanted to see an AoA style game too. :D

I used to play Runescape years ago but now I just log in every few months see what has changed and move on. The only reason I still do that is because I was one of the first few players. Way back when there was one server and not even 100 people on it at the busiest times. Things really changed for that game.

I played Star Wars Galaxies before they changed it but the learning curb was high hand I lost interest in it easily. Spent nearly all the time doing space battles.

I demoed friends accounts for World of War Craft and Guild Wars and neither game impressed me much.

City of Heroes and City of Villains I played for a long time. They weren’t fantasy rpgs! It’s a rare to find a good non fantasy rpg. But after getting a hero to lvl 50 both games lost interest to me and the only thing I did was make countless characters that never got played. This game also had a lot of nerfs that took some fun away.

DC has one coming out but I think I’ll play that and just end up switching back to CoH/CoV because that is what I’m used to.

Tish-the-Scorpion

07-02-2006, 10:32 AM

i wouldn't mind a horror flavored MMORPG.but generraly i know nothing of these ypes of games.

Serik

07-03-2006, 08:58 AM

I hate most MMOs. I've tried WoW, Guild Wars, Dark Age of Camelot, and maybe some others. I've quit them all within a few months... The only MMO I enjoyed playing was Ultima Online. Probably because UO didn't have a typical quest system and was very open-ended.

Why do I hate them?

Because it's as if the Lord commanded MMO devs to follow the same tired game design or risk burning in hell. Where's the innovation? MMOs all follow the same general outline: make character, newbie area, quests, kill monsters, etc. The Korean MMOs are the worst when it comes to level grinding.

Honestly, if I was a World of Warcraft developer, I couldn't live with myself. Why? Because the game I helped design is so boring/tedious that players are paying others to harvest gold for them. That’s a failure in game design right there.

Here's what I want to see: massively multiplayer without the genre's limitations. That is, I want to pay $10-15 a month for the privilege of using your huge servers to play with thousands of others. Why not play Battlefield with a huge battle map and real-time territorial control? I’d pay a subscription fee for that. Why not have a MMO racing game where you pay money to play in ranked tournaments with thousands of others for prizes?

It’s as if the devs equate MMO with “boring level fest.” MMO just means PLAYING WITH LOTS OF PEOPLE! It doesn’t have to be another dime a dozen fantasy MMORPG. A MMO can play just like Quake or Madden or any other GOOD game, just with lots of people. And MMOs don't need a level system to hook people - just give me a good game and I'll keep playing.

In short, I’d love MMOs if they became extensions of good games, not this horrible genre of timesinks and Tolkien fantasy gone awry.

G. Wayne

07-03-2006, 10:53 AM

Hopefully in the future, they'll make a game where there will be so many different type of characters you can be that no one will have the same character...

Not that anyone on the development side of the industry ever learns anything, but that will never happen. Nice pipe dream though. The closest thing that I know of to this was the Combat Upgrade era of Star Wars: Galaxies. They had a nifty mix and match skill system which gave you around 32 options for classes. Course you had the most popular variants, PK variants, and classes that like 5 people total played, but it was awesome.

The problem though is that it's rrreeeaaalllyyy difficult to come up with new content for so many new classes, let alone content that's balanced.

Which leads to trying to have a game that PvP'ers and carebears will agree on and be happy with. And imho, for the most part, the two groups don't mix even though they both want to play the same game.

And then there's balancing solo play and group play, another issue akin to PvP.

Oh, and end-game content is another big thing the mother-of-all MMO's would need.

How many MMO's actually make money? Seems like most of them eventually fold. Only the big companies seem to be able to stay afloat with them.

As of a few months ago when I was still actively playing anyway, WOW throws the entire model off.

The market share was like
80% WoW
20% everything else.

So even if something is successful, it's not WoW successful. And of course, the only way to be WoW successful is to follow/copy it's formula.