MS. Marvel #4 * Spoilers *

[CMBMOOL]

Well Ms. Marvel fans this issue as a little bit for everyone:

The return of the Traveler for the HOM world.

A little DC reference to a certain former member of the \S/ family

A forshadowing of Civil War

Oh and Dr. Strange letting Carol know more than she should

Also great art for this issue.

Any Questions? :D

[CyberCoyote]

No questions, just can't stand waiting for the sub to show up! Okay, a spoiler question, WHAT does Doc fill Carol in on?

Got me excited here, can't..stand..waiting...

[DDM]

I hope Doctor Strange is not a deus ex machina in this story.

[CyberCoyote]

I hope Doctor Strange is not a deus ex machina in this story.

Well, you know what they say, once you go deus ex machina you never go back.

He gave Reed Richards an artifact he just happened to have laying around that could defeat the uber-sorcerer version of Doom just by admitting one's own faults. Gotta have more great high concepts like that for the Doc :)

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

That was something different - 1-3 was so Carol-centric, and here we're getting a lot of 'omniscient narration' scenes. I'm eager for the next issue (which I imagine will tie this thing up, at least for the short-term, seeing as 6 begins the Civil War tie-in) - while it's hard to judge the quality of a story from its set-up, with the payoff still to come, there was a lot about this I liked. Traveler is just f-ing creepy!, from the opening self-mutilation (awesome implementation of the idea that power demands sacrifice - dude, I would not do that, so if nothing else you have to respect the determination of a guy who will), to his madness, the whip-quick shifts in personality, and then the revelation that he's got more marbles than it seemed. That just gave me this huge sense of relief that Carol was out of the room, because it was just so, so clear that Traveler is not someone you want to be around. Of course he'll catch up with her...

Sarah continues to be a point of conflict for me - her resume, and the endorsement from Strange, says that she's good help for Carol to have PR-wise, but there's something about how she operates that just irks me. She's so confident and controlling - maybe it's just the introvert in me, but I would seriously hate having someone railroad my life like that, even if it was good for my career. Given how important public opinion is in CW, I expect Sarah to feature prominently, and interestingly.

Neat reference to Carol's injury in the previous issue - definite confirmation of my guess that Cru is not gone, and the fact that his gunk got into Carol's wound isn't just a throwaway detail. There's something there, some connection - it bears watching long-term.

[garin]

The line about nobody being interested in Linda Danvers was kind of funny.

Linda Danvers being the secret ID of Peter David's (apparently very good) version of Supergirl, who has been retconned out of existence after Infinite Crisis.

Where was Carol's meeting with this Traveller guy in the HoM-verse published? Giant-size Ms Marvel?

[Eumenide No 2]

Man, this book is coming off as bland and generic.

I can't believe this is beating (sales-wise) Runaways, Thing, Captain America and other much better books...

[We R. Venom]

Yo it just started, so who knows, #5 may blow your socks off! Hell as long as someone gets blasted or punched in the mouth opnce in a while, im cool with it haha.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Man, this book is coming off as bland and generic.
I actually had similar thoughts around about #2-3. I happened to Google a few reviews, just to see what was being said about the book, and happened across this review (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?p=1216910), which really opened my eyes to an interpretation of the book I hadn't thought of. Given that nudge, I went back and re-read - and y'know, I think they're right. I read #4 'eyes open', knowing to look for the subtexts and visual clues, and I found it really quite involving. So I'd say if you're having the doubts I did at first, read through that review, and see if its perspective rubs off on you :)

[protege]

You know, i have to say, I'm REALLY getting tired of the pushy agent character.

[Haunt]

i really liked this issue; pushy agent and all. Ms Marvel is refreshingly-human and this is without the alcohol abuse problems. and Warren is thankfully a step-up from Cru in the personality department. i'm still holding out hope for flashier villains, though.

[Vegetarian Goat]

i really liked this issue; pushy agent and all. Ms Marvel is refreshingly-human and this is without the alcohol abuse problems. and Warren is thankfully a step-up from Cru in the personality department. i'm still holding out hope for flashier villains, though.

I'm holding on at least until the Rogue issue. After that, i'm going to be reading it with a critical eye, contemplating some droppage. What would make this book stand out to me would be a solid supporting cast, and some more effort on CAROL'S part to be the super-superhero that she wants to be. Right now, it seems like PushyAgentLady is doing all the work, with Carol just getting flustered by it all. That should change.

But all in all- i'm enjoying it so far. Just not as much as i want to.. :o

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Right now, it seems like PushyAgentLady is doing all the work, with Carol just getting flustered by it all.
I suppose it depends on their points of view - Sarah is looking at Carol's career as a celebrity case, in terms of PR and exposure. I think when Carol thinks 'best of the best', she's thinking in heroic terms - she may, on the surface, associate 'superhero' with being a household name like Captain America or Mr Fantastic, but I think in her heart what she wants is to be a hero like Captain America or Mr Fantastic. Someone who steps up and saves the day on the biggest stage there is. So while publicity might strike her as a decent idea to pursue, and she's human enough to be stung if Stilt Man doesn't recognise her, I don't think her heart's really in it as a celebrity - it's a side benefit, not something she can really devote herself to.

No doubt Sarah's good at what she does, given her clientele, but I imagine those who're used to her like Dr Strange have gotten into the habit of ignoring her for the most part - she does her thing, and that's great, but it's not really important to them.

[protege]

i really liked this issue; pushy agent and all. Ms Marvel is refreshingly-human and this is without the alcohol abuse problems. and Warren is thankfully a step-up from Cru in the personality department. i'm still holding out hope for flashier villains, though.
yeah- MM needs a good Rogue's gallery.

[Ogre U AHole]

I'm not feeling very eloquent today, so forgive me if this post is crap...

It usually doesn't bother me that much when people say they don't like something. I generally have a live and let live philosophy about life and accept that not all things are for all people. But if you're not enjoying this book, I find myself questioning whether or not you actually like comics to begin with. I know that's a false accusation but I can't help saying it in my head when I read criticisms of this book. That would seem to paint me in a Carol Danvers fanboy light, but I assure you I've only recently gotten back into comics and becoming a huge supporter of Ms. Marvel was never on my agenda.

In a day and age where I find most comics wallowing in grim and grittiness as a way of trying to not be ashamed of being comic books or heavy satire as a way of making fun of comic books, I find Ms. Marvel to be one of the most honest to God super-hero comic books out there. There's no gratuitous sexiness or relationship pandering, there's no aggrandized violence for the sake of violence, and it's a book that while not taking itself too seriously doesn't stoop to making fun of itself or the genre.

Carol's a flawed person who feels the drive to be a hero. Those motivations may be entirely selfish as a way of simply making her feel better about herself opposed to actually wanting to help people. But people still get helped so it's hard to fault her too much. And seriously, who hasn't given money to a homeless person and felt more focused on feeling better about yourself than if your loose change is actually going to put something warm in that man's belly?

There are interesting themes being explored here and in this day of decompression and trade waiting it urks me to see people complain that this book "needs to pick up or I'm dropping it". We have Carol, who if you know her you'd understand that she is a flawed person trying to be better. That's incredibly human. We have a strong super-hero as celebrity subplot that is really relavant in today's celebrity worshipping culture. We just had a huge tragedy in Georgia with a mass extermination of human life; also somewhat relevant to today's natural disasters of epic porportions. I see a lot of stuff being set-up to play out here and don't see any need for it to develop at a quicker pace when Ms. Marvel is locked in battle with a space mutant and being thrust in front of camera's as soon as she returns, being attacked by a time travelling wizard, and consuliting someone who knows more on the subject than she. With all that happening, where is their room for anything to progress at a faster pace?

Her villains are coming along nicely I feel. Cru is an alien hellbent on his goal at all costs. Traveler is a time hopping sorcerer with perhaps a touch of insanity. Cru allows you to get in Carols head and see how she sees herself because Cru is NOT a personality. Cru is an action. It's like being locked in solitary, you have no choice but to examine yourself because there is no one else to talk too. Talking to Cru is pointless, Carol has to examine it, herself, and the situation and figure out what best to do. Traveller is a bit more eccentric and allows you to see how Carol interacts with other personalities and how some may see her. It's a great one-two punch as far as rogues go IMO. And that's not even going into the two opposing aspects of the villains origins and powers; science and magic.

A long babbling post, and I really don't want to level these accusations at people not into this series as I know they have their reasons that are just as valid as mine for liking it, but... whatev. I'm digging this series bunches and I'm sorry you don't. (If there was a smiley with shrugging shoulders, I'd use it here.)

[Zel]

The publicist lady is scary. Scans and steals all the info from Carol's cell phone, makes copies of her apartment keys, and it's all part of the contract?
Yikes, I'd read the fine print on that contract right away. Hopefully there's a aclause in there about some nude photoshoots :D

[CyberCoyote]

I'm not feeling very eloquent today, so forgive me if this post is crap...

It usually doesn't bother me that much when people say they don't like something. I generally have a live and let live philosophy about life and accept that not all things are for all people. But if you're not enjoying this book, I find myself questioning whether or not you actually like comics to begin with.

SNIP

A long babbling post, and I really don't want to level these accusations at people not into this series as I know they have their reasons that are just as valid as mine for liking it, but... whatev. I'm digging this series bunches and I'm sorry you don't. (If there was a smiley with shrugging shoulders, I'd use it here.)

Wow, a lot more analysis than I've put into it, but all very true.

Basically we've got a fun ride that's slick on the surface but has plenty of meat for anyone looking past the glossy Cho covers. This is a really fun comic in the classic sense but with a character that's fresh enough that no one can point a finger and say it's old hat revisited.

Then again, others' enjoyment may vary and to each his own. I'm just glad sales are strong so I can read more than 8 issues of this one :)

[TheMuertoCorpse]

I'm not feeling very eloquent today, so forgive me if this post is crap...

It usually doesn't bother me that much when people say they don't like something. I generally have a live and let live philosophy about life and accept that not all things are for all people. But if you're not enjoying this book, I find myself questioning whether or not you actually like comics to begin with.

SNIP

A long babbling post, and I really don't want to level these accusations at people not into this series as I know they have their reasons that are just as valid as mine for liking it, but... whatev. I'm digging this series bunches and I'm sorry you don't. (If there was a smiley with shrugging shoulders, I'd use it here.)


So why did you even bother to post all that?

I think it's just amusing as hell when people use the ole "If You Don'T Enjoy This Comic You Don't Like Comics At All" line...
As if there was some sort of standard rule that quantifies our appreciation of comics as an art form in direct correlation with the kind of comics that we love and those we hate.

It's all personal taste...I don't care for gritty, grim, depressing comics, and yet I have been bored as hell with the last two issues of Ms.Marvel.
To me, the book is just mediocre, with nothing particularly distinctive or exciting...just middle-of-the-road superhero action that doesn't stand out, at least to me.
And I think the characterization is not exactly solid.
I don't see this "fresh" character that people are mentioning, but lik others have said, to each their own.

That is all my opinion, and I do love comics...

[CyberCoyote]

Finally got my copy. Other folks don't dig it that's fine by me. There's an audience that does and man I'm one of 'em :) Me, I skip all the X-Books, NA, and a whole bunch of popular stuff. To each his own.

And in the next game of clue I'll pick The Traveller, in the Inner Sanctum with a Candle Stick! Looks like Doc sorely overestimated his own abilities, there. Of course this also leaves Traveller with another very bad enemy, unless he plans on finishing the deal (which I don't think Marvel'd allow)

Carol's ability to resist his big bad whammy there was pretty interesting, too. Like someone mentioned, if her powers work with magic energies that'd be c00l development.