CIVIL WAR #2 (spoilers)

[EdContradictory]

20-Odd Questions: CIVIL WAR #2 (http://www.yourmomsbasement.com/archives/2006/06/20odd_questions_9.html)*

YourMomsBasement had a group of drooling fanboys ask Fan Favorite Retailer Ryan Higgins 20-Odd Questions about the latest issue of Marvel's epic Civil War. And the question all of fandom has been wondering about gets answered: "Is Wolverine in this issue?"

http://yourmomsbasement.com/images/20Q_1/20Q_06-12-06_01.jpg

20-Odd Questions: CIVIL WAR #2 (http://www.yourmomsbasement.com/archives/2006/06/20odd_questions_9.html)

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*some spoilers in article.

[SnakeEater]

So... Amazing Spider-Man #532 ends with Spider-Man about to make a major announcement to the press after debating all issue about whether or not to reveal his secret identity. The solicit to Civil War #2 stated that "a Marvel legend makes a decision that will change a life forever" and that "this issue features one of the most shocking climaxes in Marvel Comics history". Is there anything you want to tell us?
I suppose I could tell you what happens, but Marvel might start making threats. Look, if you’re going to have a major change in your most popular character of all time, whatever you do, don’t release a preview book that completely spoils it. How hard is this to do? I mean, who was fired over this? Someone had to be. I’m not calling for someone’s head, don’t get me wrong, but in Kirby’s name, why would you ship any book that says “Civil War” on the cover in a preview pack?

Well you see a ferw days ago i read here on the boards that some spoilers were leaked and that no one should mention them, so for me i stayed away because some people dont listen to things like that and screw the stories up for ppl like me. GUESS HOW PISSED OFF I WAS THIS MORNING THEN THE DAMN NEW YORK RUINED THE STORY FOR ON THE VERY SECOND PAGE OF TODAYS DAMN EDITION. FOR THOSE WHO LIVE IN THE NEW YORK AREA AND READ THE NEW YORK POST....DONT GET THE WEDNESDAY, JUNE 14TH 2006 EDITION BEFORE YOU GO TO THE COMIC STORE. THEY RUIN ISSUE TWO FOR YOU ON THE VERY SECOND PAGE. STAY AWAY FROM THE NEW YORK POST ONLY UNTIL AFTER YOU GET YOUR CIVIL WAR ISSUE TWO BOOK:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Mulett]

Well, its Wednesday 14 June 2006 so - according to the note on this forum - we are now allowed to discuss this issue, spoilers and all.

I won't give anything away just yet. Only one question - I wonder if this in anyway reflects what happens in the next Spider-Man film?

[Soundrave]

So I hear that NFL Superpro gets unmasked (unhelmeted?) to the public in this issue. Any truth to that rumor?

[sixstringguild]

Well, its Wednesday 14 June 2006 so - according to the note on this forum - we are now allowed to discuss this issue, spoilers and all.

I won't give anything away just yet. Only one question - I wonder if this in anyway reflects what happens in the next Spider-Man film?

I think it's safe to say that the Ultimate Spidey book is more for the general audience, hence a movie-going only audience (not comic one)...

[SincereAgape]

Say it ain't so!!! Spidey sold out! Spidey sold out!

[sherlockbones]

to quote the emporer:
"peter parker is young and naive. You will find controlling him will not be difficult."

how can somebody working at a newspaper be so stupid?

[spideyrules99]

ONG!!! OMG!!!! DID that really happen? OMG. I cant wait to pick this up. No going back now man. Game OVer. GAME FREAKEN OVER!!!!!

What do you think JJJ will do about this?

[bjtrdff]

Any chance someone could post a summary of the book?

I know it goes against the usual 'first post is a big tease' rule around here, but it would be greatly appreciated.

[algertman]

What stupid thing to do. Has ANYONE at Marvel ead Spider-Man books prior to Bendis on Ultimate? Spider-Man life has been destroyed on multiple occasions thanks to bagduys knowing who he is. Good bye Aunt May and MJ, Peter just got you both killed.

[Spidergreg]

it’s exactly what you think it is. And it’s the biggest mistake in the history of modern comic books.




NOOOoooooooo !!!!

[The Cool Thatguy]

What stupid thing to do. Has ANYONE at Marvel ead Spider-Man books prior to Bendis on Ultimate? Spider-Man life has been destroyed on multiple occasions thanks to bagduys knowing who he is. Good bye Aunt May and MJ, Peter just got you both killed.

In fairness, since he's an active and respected Avenger, Spidey could, logically, get protection from Shield, or order some security system from Reed Richards in the unlikely event Stark forever disavows him.

But how is Spider-Man an everyman with he pals around with guys like Captain America, Iron Man, etc., has unlimited funds from Stark and now everyone knows he's Spider-Man? How can he interact with his established supporting cast when it was the duality that made them so great?

[sherlockbones]

In fairness, since he's an active and respected Avenger, Spidey could, logically, get protection from Shield, or order some security system from Reed Richards in the unlikely event Stark forever disavows him.

But how is Spider-Man an everyman with he pals around with guys like Captain America, Iron Man, etc., has unlimited funds from Stark and now everyone knows he's Spider-Man? How can he interact with his established supporting cast when it was the duality that made them so great?

reminds me of scenerio in HoM
if they don´t retcon this or dr. strange changes the timestream, i can´t imagine how this could possibly work in the future

[algertman]

reminds me of scenerio in HoM
if they don´t retcon this or dr. strange changes the timestream, i can´t imagine how this could possibly work in the future


It won't and never will. But JoeQ and his buddies are bound and determined to destroy 616 Spider-Man so the Ultimate version will the only Spider-Man worth a damn

[CMBMOOL]

Could someone PLEASE just spoil the FULL issue ? :( :(

[Red Lotus]

It won't and never will. But JoeQ and his buddies are bound and determined to destroy 616 Spider-Man so the Ultimate version will the only Spider-Man worth a damn


This will be retcon. This is all about money and getting pub like what they are getting now. They wanted a shocking event so selling out their franchise character is it.

Like it or not this is a business first. Even if that means having what will happen go against everything that character has stood for in his 43 years. If you can find away to make more money you try to make more money. You try to make a big splash. Superman died and Batman had his back broken this is just the same:rolleyes: .

[Pike]

I'd love an issue description as well. Anyone? Bueller?

[anthony!]

Not all that much happens.

Essentially:

We learn that Captain America and buddies have been still superhero-ing despite their illegal status.

Tony and his buddies are superhero-ing and slowly regaining public trust.

Cap and buddies rescue the Young Avengers after they've been captured by SHIELD. They arrive at a safe house provided by Nick Fury.

Tony, Hank Pym and Reed Richards have been working on something called "42". It is rumored to be a superhero prison.

JJJ contemplates his anti-superhero mission finally becoming law.

Tony Start holds yet another press conference...and Spider-man shows up, revealing that he is Peter Parker and has been Spider-man since he was fifteen.

To Be Continued...

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Could someone PLEASE just spoil the FULL issue ? :( :(
Okay... I hope this is allowed.

SHIELD Anti-Superhuman Response troops find The Vulture and The Grip Reaper beat to snot and chained up (with Trapster likewise restrained in the same building) - Maria Hill, monitoring the troops remotely, confirms that Captain America has now taken down (and presumably left to be incarcerated) fifteen supervillains in the past 72 hours. Hill concludes that the only explanation is that Cap isn't on his own anymore.

Newspapers carry headlines about the Registration Act passing congress, Cap going into hiding, Tony Stark backing 'super hero reform'. Miriam Sharpe, in a TV interview, is 'disappointed' at Cap's stance, hopeful he'll reconsider in the remaining seven days before the Act comes into force. She welcomes Iron Man's stance.

In New York a group of heroes led by Iron Man have taken down a giant-sized Doombot. Onlookers cheer the victory; Iron Man says people are starting to believe in superheroes again. She-Hulk questions whether they'll still be 'superheroes', or just SHIELD agents - Iron Man says they are superheroes, just as always. Only now 'the kids, the amateurs, and the sociopaths' will be off the streets. Tigra asks which one of those Iron Man considers Captain America to be; he says simply, "He's wrong this time. Trust me."

In the Baxter Building, Thing sits with the kids. Sue asks Reed how 'the project' is coming alone - he's super-enthused about 'Tony's big plan for the superhuman community'. Sue laments that the big plan means criminalising some heroes, Reed responds that they have no choice, and points to calculations he's performed showing the "exponential curve the number of superbeings is following and the apocalypse we're facing if unlicensed activity isn't brought under control." He refers to 'Tony's secret plan', and Tony and Hank Pym tossing around ideas he finds inspiring. Sue spots a disc labelled '42' and asks about it; Reed stops her from touching it, and says it's classified. Sue leaves for the hospital, to visit her brother; Reed, still working, says to give Johhny his love.

In the Daily Bugle offices, J. Jonah Jameson crows about everything his paper has campaigned for coming true with regards to superheroes: "No more masks. And no more excuses about creepy secret identities." Robbie, who'd come to ask which photographer (in lieu of Peter Parker being 'out of town') they'll send with Urich to Tony Stark's press conference the next day, asks if Jonah thinks all the superheroes are going to sign up; Jonah, looking out the window at Spider-Man web-slinging along (in his Iron Spider outfit) says, "No. Just the smart ones."

In Tony Stark's penthouse his assistant reports that in twenty minutes (midnight) the Act comes into force. They have thirty-eight signatures according to SHIELD - presumably, the superheroes who've signed on to be the super police force. Stark asks if there's any word on Cap. The rumour is that he's putting together his own team, and "he'll see this thing to the finish." Tony leans back, worried: "Oh, God. Please let us be doing the right thing here."

At midnight the Act comes into force.

24 hours later a SHIELD helicopter gunship crewed by ASR troops pursues Patriot over the rooftops, after he was spotted foiling a robbery. The gunship is given permission to use 'tranquilisers and minimum force.' They open fire on Patriot, but the trank shots don't penetrate his outfit. He takes an enormous leap over a street, crashing into an office building, while trying to contact his fellow superheroes to warm then SHIELD is after them; the gunship fires some kind of gas-explosive that blasts the whole office floor. ASR troops taking the other Young Avengers into custody lament the property damage, which they'd been told to keep to a minimum, and blame the superheroes for causing all this trouble.

Elsewhere, Daredevil (or whoever's in his digs) asks a guy at a surveillance system (sorry, I don't recognise him) if they're going to intercept the prisoner transport carrying the Young Avengers; he's told Cap and Falcon are already there, undercover. In the SHIELD truck the passenger mouths off about how superheroes aren't interested in going legit, because they don't get a buzz out of it - the driver (Cap, out of costume) punches him out of the cab, causing the following police cars to crash avoiding him on the road. Inside the truck Falcon (diguised as an ASR guard) releases the heroes, and tells Wiccan to do a teleportation spell. Cap drives the prison truck towards a roadblock at top speed - at the last moment the spell takes hold, and the truck vanishes Back-To-The-Future-style (but blue energy rather than flame).

The truck and its occupants arrive at SHIELD Safe House #23 (think a James Bond lair), one of 28 safe houses known only to Nick Fury, who is underground and contactable only by scrambler-phone, and has let Cap's group have use of the safe houses. Cloak and Dagger (I believe), Hercules, Daredevil, and some guy with a metal arm or something I don't recognise, are also there. Fury is preparing new secret identities, as their old ones are compromised; Cap tells the Young Avengers that this is where they live for the duration, and where they will start to fight back. Dagger calls their attention to a TV broadcast:

In Washington, Tony Stark introduces Spider-Man (as seen in ASM). In the X-Men mansion, Wolverine wonders what the hell's going on now; Sue, standing by an unconscious Johhny's bed in the hospital, hopes Stark knows what he's doing.

Spider-Man says he's guarded his secret identity pretty carefully over the years, and it's only after a long talk with his wife and family that he's decided to do this. She-Hulk, Yellowjacket, Thing and Wasp watch as he says that Captain America's way would mean people with powers continuing to be completely unchecked; Aunt May and MJ watch proudly as he says that, alternately, superheroes can go legal and earn back the public's trust. J. Jonah Jameson watches the TV, silencing his staff. Spider-Man says he's not wearing his mask because he's ashamed of what he does, but because he's proud of who he is, and he's here to prove it. The mask comes off: "My name is Peter Parker, and I've been Spider-Man snice I was fifteen years old."

Jonah faints.

Parker, as the flashbulbs go off: "Any questions?"

[anthony!]

Question:

Didn't the last issue of Amazing Spider-man end with him just about to announce at the press conference?

And wasn't he wearing the Iron-Spidey costume?

[Spidergreg]

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/spidey_unmasked_nationalnews_dareh_gregorian.htm



That's some ugly drawing.... where the heck is Mike Deodato ??

[Nick Kal]

Clever.... Marvel reveals 42 now, after DC's 52.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Didn't the last issue of Amazing Spider-man end with him just about to announce at the press conference?

And wasn't he wearing the Iron-Spidey costume?
Yep, this is the same conference, and no, he was wearing his old outfit for it in ASM.

And I overlooked it, oops: the ASR soldier Cap shoves out of the prison truck says that he's heard rumours of 'number 42', a top-secret prison being built for superheroes - evidently you can't even look at the blueprints without wearing some special goggles.

It's a good book, I recommend buying it - the art is great, and the writing is done with a lot of style.

[Spidergreg]

Maybe i'm missing something here...
why is Spidey revealing his identity to the public?
I thought it should only be made known to the government?

[Spidergreg]

i hope later Peter Parker somehow is able to convince the public that he's just a decoy.... or something like that lol

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Presumably to set an example to reluctant heroes - the argument being that if Spider-Man, who's always been very careful to keep his identity secret, can reveal his identity to the whole nation, surely it's not such a big deal to just tell SHIELD.

Oh, I forgot something else, which is good enough reason for anyone to buy this issue: during the mop-up of the Doombot fight, there's an awesome cheesecake shot of She-Hulk's butt. And her spandex-clad chest in another frame on the same page. It's like the She-Hulk Looks Damn Fine issue of Civil War.

For the record, the heroes fighting the Doombot are: Iron Man, Mr Fantastic, She-Hulk, Yellowjacket, Doc Samson, Ms Marvel, and Tigra, so it's a dead cert they's all pro-reg.

[Jmacq1]

Maybe i'm missing something here...
why is Spidey revealing his identity to the public?
I thought it should only be made known to the government?

Technically, the act says they only have to reveal it to the government (at least that was my understanding of the law). However, Tony and May (among other factors) have convinced him that he needs to be a "symbol" to help the superheroes regain the trust of the general public. "Hearts and Minds" and all that.

But it seems to be getting murky now. I can't imagine the Pro-Registration side would simply feed Peter and his family to the wolves just for the sake of doing it. Of course, Tony has already promised protection, so....

Regardless, I'm going to go on the "happy with the change/idea" side on this one. MJ and May only become "victims" if the writers want to -make- them victims, and that can happen regardless of whether Peter's identity is public or not. And quite frankly, having MJ and May wind up dead/victimized anytime soon would completely undermine the Pro-Registration side of Civil War. So trust me when I say that nothing's going to happen to either of them at least for the duration of this particular event.

[algertman]

I'd love an issue description as well. Anyone? Bueller?

Spider-Man paints targets on Aunt May and MJ

[AspectVoid]

Maybe i'm missing something here...
why is Spidey revealing his identity to the public?
I thought it should only be made known to the government?

In ASM #532, Peter confronts MJ and Aunt May about the Registration Act. Peter, while speaking to them, decides to go underground. May interrupts and tell's Peter that she's proud of him and wants Peter to reveal himself and let his face be shown, as she wants the world to be proud of him too. MJ then changes sides and goes along with Aunt May.

Peter seems to agree, but we find him early the next morning sneaking out of Avengers HQ to go underground. Aunt May is waiting for him at the door, and she gives him a version of his old costume saying she spent all night making it. She then guilts Peter with the "With great power comes great responsibility" speech and tells him that unmasking himself is the responsible thing to do. Peter, being weak to both his aunt and that speech, goes along with what May wants, and in Civil War 2, he unmasks himself.

To be honest, I like the move. It's going to add a new dimension to Spidey stories that haven't been around before. I can easily see Peter doing this after the guilt trip Aunt May laid on him, and lets face it, she's been such a minor character for so long, it's easy for her to have these feelings without it being out of character.

[Red Lotus]

But it seems to be getting murky now. I can't imagine the Pro-Registration side would simply feed Peter and his family to the wolves just for the sake of doing it. Of course, Tony has already promised protection, so.


I fully belive now that at the end of Civil War 1 when Tony said that they were going to give the pro side a face he meant Peter. If Tony has to feed Peter and his family to the wolves to make his point then he will.

If and when Spider-man switches sides I think this will be the reason why. He will find out how Tony used him.

[Drakenred]

42

what is the question.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

I'll admit I'm happy that I decided to read Civil War #2 before this week's Thunderbolts tie-in... but really, 'spoiler'? What else could Spider-Man have possibly done, after what we saw in the most recent ASM? "I have an announcement to make. ...I'm running away! Bye!" This was the next best thing to inevitable, given the set-up - anything else would have been cheating.

[Beast]

In ASM #532, Peter confronts MJ and Aunt May about the Registration Act. Peter, while speaking to them, decides to go underground. May interrupts and tell's Peter that she's proud of him and wants Peter to reveal himself and let his face be shown, as she wants the world to be proud of him too. MJ then changes sides and goes along with Aunt May.

Peter seems to agree, but we find him early the next morning sneaking out of Avengers HQ to go underground. Aunt May is waiting for him at the door, and she gives him a version of his old costume saying she spent all night making it. She then guilts Peter with the "With great power comes great responsibility" speech and tells him that unmasking himself is the responsible thing to do. Peter, being weak to both his aunt and that speech, goes along with what May wants, and in Civil War 2, he unmasks himself.

To be honest, I like the move. It's going to add a new dimension to Spidey stories that haven't been around before. I can easily see Peter doing this after the guilt trip Aunt May laid on him, and lets face it, she's been such a minor character for so long, it's easy for her to have these feelings without it being out of character.
That's it, Aunt May is the evil mastermind behind Civil War. :D

[EdContradictory]

I'll admit I'm happy that I decided to read Civil War #2 before this week's Thunderbolts tie-in... but really, 'spoiler'? What else could Spider-Man have possibly done, after what we saw in the most recent ASM? "I have an announcement to make. ...I'm running away! Bye!" This was the next best thing to inevitable, given the set-up - anything else would have been cheating.

I know. The only way that could have gone differently was if Peter ran off screaming like a loon.

http://yourmomsbasement.com/images/CWJMS.jpg

[stillanerd]

Jonah faints.


Well there it is, ladies and gentlemen: the only worthwhile thing to happen out of this whole stupid reveal was J. Jonah Jameson's reaction.

[PaxHouse]

Spider-Man says he's guarded his secret identity pretty carefully over the years, and it's only after a long talk with his wife and family that he's decided to do this. She-Hulk, Yellowjacket, Thing and Wasp watch as he says that Captain America's way would mean people with powers continuing to be completely unchecked; Aunt May and MJ watch proudly as he says that, alternately, superheroes can go legal and earn back the public's trust. J. Jonah Jameson watches the TV, silencing his staff. Spider-Man says he's not wearing his mask because he's ashamed of what he does, but because he's proud of who he is, and he's here to prove it. The mask comes off: "My name is Peter Parker, and I've been Spider-Man snice I was fifteen years old."

Jonah faints.

Parker, as the flashbulbs go off: "Any questions?"

IMHO......seeing JJJ in shock is worth Peter's unmasking himself....!!:p :D

But seriously, we have another powerful issue containing super-great moments for CIVIL WAR......

And looking forward to the rest of the Mini & Tie-ins (especially ASM #533...!!)

[sixstringguild]

Wow. Generally, I hate the idea of heroes exposing their own identities, but I really like it in this case. I think it's going to open up many many avenues that haven't been tread for Spidey before. It's gutsy and risky on Marvel's part and I think it's great. Too many times we complain that comics repeat the same stories over and over again. This has totally opened the door for new possibilities and you can't beat that.

[Drakenred]

Spider-Man says he's guarded his secret identity pretty carefully over the years, and it's only after a long talk with his wife and family that he's decided to do this. She-Hulk, Yellowjacket, Thing and Wasp watch as he says that Captain America's way would mean people with powers continuing to be completely unchecked; Aunt May and MJ watch proudly as he says that, alternately, superheroes can go legal and earn back the public's trust. J. Jonah Jameson watches the TV, silencing his staff. Spider-Man says he's not wearing his mask because he's ashamed of what he does, but because he's proud of who he is, and he's here to prove it. The mask comes off: "My name is Peter Parker, and I've been Spider-Man snice I was fifteen years old."

Jonah faints.

Parker, as the flashbulbs go off: "Any questions?"

Reporter #1 Peter Parker who?

Parker Peter Parker, I did some Photography work for the Daily Bugle and a Photobook On spiderman

Reporter#2 you said your name was Parker, Any relation to Mary Watson-Parker?

Parker Yes shes my wife. . .

(Reporters start bombarding him with questions about his wife)

[Trusty Mutsi]

What do you think JJJ will do about this?

That was the first thing I thought. All those years of paying Parker for those photos.

Think he'll want his money back?

[Drakenred]

first thing he will do is get checked out of the hospital after being hospitalised for having a coronary.

[anthony!]

For some strange reason I was actually hoping he'd say:

"My name is Ben Reilly. And I've been Spider-man since I was fifteen."

[Radical_dreamer]

Well there it is, ladies and gentlemen: the only worthwhile thing to happen out of this whole stupid reveal was J. Jonah Jameson's reaction.

bitching about this all around the internet uh. Well you sure are earning your name.
I loved it!! Loved it beyond!! I always read the same issue of House of M after reading a CW issue. And really there is no comparaison. This mini is going to change the Marvel Universe. It's actually going to alter everything! No hype! Plus I really loved the presence of YA (mah favorite bunch) throguhout the issue. They're the green ones. The uncorrupting and eager beavers of the MU and yet here they are, literally caught in the biggest event the Marvel Universe has ever witnessed. Awesome.
Now I really enjoyed Infinite Crisis, but since I am not a DC-boy it felt extremely removed for me. I had no clue what multiple earths were and found the thing hard to swallow at times. But this....it's so huge and yet so personal at the same time. Not just a crisis, but a crisis between families and friends.
And the art.....damn. They better sell some of these original pages. Even as someone who's mocked that for years I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallly want to buy one of these spreads.

[Radical_dreamer]

That was the first thing I thought. All those years of paying Parker for those photos.

Think he'll want his money back?

that would be hilarious.

[Tony Starkz]

Wow,fantastic issue.

Someone earlier said not much happens.Are you kidding me?There is so much packed on every page.

I'm really liking the looks of both sides.At first I thought,why the heck would Cable be there?Then I remembered Cap's appearance in Cable/Deadpool #25.

[Beast]

You guys arn't thinking big picture enough. The best part wasn't that Jonah fainted. The best part is now the Bugle has to do positive stories about Spider-Man now. You really think Jonah is going to be able to stomache doing that, considering all the years he's bashed and trashed Spidey in the paper. Why do I sense ole Jonah actually siding with the Anti-Registration side, just so he can continue to demonize ole Spidey. :D

[colmustard]

Wow. Generally, I hate the idea of heroes exposing their own identities, but I really like it in this case. I think it's going to open up many many avenues that haven't been tread for Spidey before. It's gutsy and risky on Marvel's part and I think it's great. Too many times we complain that comics repeat the same stories over and over again. This has totally opened the door for new possibilities and you can't beat that.

didn't Wally West/Flash already do this?

[Tony Starkz]

You guys arn't thinking big picture enough. The best part wasn't that Jonah fainted. The best part is now the Bugle has to do positive stories about Spider-Man now. You really think Jonah is going to be able to stomache doing that, considering all the years he's bashed and trashed Spidey in the paper. Why do I sense ole Jonah actually siding with the Anti-Registration side, just so he can continue to demonize ole Spidey. :D

Definitely.Too many fans are jumping the gun and going after JQ's head.The reveal was written so well and the things that can be done with this are plenty.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Presumably to set an example to reluctant heroes - the argument being that if Spider-Man, who's always been very careful to keep his identity secret, can reveal his identity to the whole nation, surely it's not such a big deal to just tell SHIELD.

Oh, I forgot something else, which is good enough reason for anyone to buy this issue: during the mop-up of the Doombot fight, there's an awesome cheesecake shot of She-Hulk's butt. And her spandex-clad chest in another frame on the same page. It's like the She-Hulk Looks Damn Fine issue of Civil War.

For the record, the heroes fighting the Doombot are: Iron Man, Mr Fantastic, She-Hulk, Yellowjacket, Doc Samson, Ms Marvel, and Tigra, so it's a dead cert they's all pro-reg.

So basically, while the pro reg. heroes are faking fights, the anti-reg heroes are fighting real criminals and bring them in. Fair and balanced, that.

[stillanerd]

^^^^
No kiddling.

You guys arn't thinking big picture enough. The best part wasn't that Jonah fainted. The best part is now the Bugle has to do positive stories about Spider-Man now. You really think Jonah is going to be able to stomache doing that, considering all the years he's bashed and trashed Spidey in the paper. Why do I sense ole Jonah actually siding with the Anti-Registration side, just so he can continue to demonize ole Spidey. :D

Well, considering how much he's blasted Spidey over the years, he'd have to do a lot of damage control. Ironically, the majority of his readers are going to believe that he fabricated the news in order to sell papers. It's basically the New York Times Jason Blair scandal only substitute Jason Blair with Peter Parker and the the gray lady with the Daily Bugle.

[IronMan41]

Tony said to peter that if he didnt go along with the registration act. His family would be held accountable for with holding info on him and what not they would be arrested too. But How are they gonna know that they really know. Plus If it doesnt need to be made publicly then why hold other responsible?! Plus if peter was planing on leaving and going into hiding. He wouldnt be spiderman any more. Then whats the problem?! He was willing to give up spiderman. Why would he have to register hes not gonna be a super hero any more?!

Think its pretty sweet how everything is starting to evolve. Can;t wait for them to all start duking it out haha.

[Hi-Fi]

Loved this issue.

Guys, who are in the underground team?I recognized Cap, Falcon, Daredevil and Dagger. Who are the others?

[algertman]

didn't Wally West/Flash already do this?


And it nearly killed his wife and cost him his unborn twins at the time

[Tony Starkz]

Loved this issue.

Guys, who are in the underground team?I recognized Cap, Falcon, Daredevil and Dagger. Who are the others?

Cap,Cable,Goliath,Hercules,Cloak & Dagger,Luke Cage,Daredevil,Young Avengers,2 women (one blonde in a labcoat and one black haired) I couldn't ID

[lordlad]

And there goes the internet........just as JoeQ promised.

[davros42]

Good issue, I loved Jonah's reaction...

Few things though:

The pace of the book is the polar opposite of House of M, THANK GOD. Things actually happen, time actually moves, there's fights and action and stuff! Not just three issues of talking heads saying the same things over and over...

The secret base #23... that you have to be a 33rd Degree member of SHIELD to know about... 23 is the number of conspiracies (come on, someone here has to have read Illuminatus!) and 33rd Degree is a direct reference to the Masons. Interesting connections.

42. Another odd reference. Is there anyone left who doesn't immediatly associate this number with Hitchhiker's Guide?

That doombot looked a bit Ultron-ish to me...

Captain America does not appear in uniform in this issue... and also the first hero we see brought down under the act is Patriot. More interesting references and allusions.

And on the negative side, does this thing seem a bit... I dunno, forced to anyone else? Agents of SHIELD, gleefully gunning for kids... Reed Richards acting way out of character (or at least his worst aspects are being brought to the fore for no real reason other than to move the plot)... Former comrade and allies eagerly choosing up sides... It just rings a little false to me.

[Rollo_Tomasi]

42. Another odd reference. Is there anyone left who doesn't immediatly associate this number with Hitchhiker's Guide?



Yes. Its one of the "numbers" on the television show "Lost". Also, it could be foreshadowing the Fantastic Four ideologically split down the middle over the issues that surround "Civil War".

[Clint Barton]

I don't see why Peter revealing that he is Spiderman is such a big deal for Marvel. Apparently they aren't computer savvy. Finding out secret ID's for heros is as easy as using Google---> http://blog.outer-court.com/archive/2006-06-07-n59.html :cool:

[Drakenred]

Well considering that Marvel Comics publishes the exact same comic books on Earth 616 as they do here, all anyone who realy wanted to know spidermans Identity would have to do is pick up his comic book!

[davros42]

Yes. Its one of the "numbers" on the television show "Lost". Also, it could be foreshadowing the Fantastic Four ideologically split down the middle over the issues that surround "Civil War".

Actually, as was mentioned elsewhere most of the Lost numbers make an appearence in this issue. For whatever reason... Millar's watching too much TV maybe?

[scratchie]

I'll admit I'm happy that I decided to read Civil War #2 before this week's Thunderbolts tie-in... but really, 'spoiler'? What else could Spider-Man have possibly done, after what we saw in the most recent ASM? "I have an announcement to make. ...I'm running away! Bye!" This was the next best thing to inevitable, given the set-up - anything else would have been cheating.He could have said

"I have an announcement to make... this Registration Act is political feel-good sham that will wind up endangering more innocent lives than it saves, and I cannot in good conscience support it.

"And I'm running away! Bye!"

[sixstringguild]

didn't Wally West/Flash already do this?

Yeah, but Spidey didn't.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Well considering that Marvel Comics publishes the exact same comic books on Earth 616 as they do here, all anyone who realy wanted to know spidermans Identity would have to do is pick up his comic book!
LOL :p

Going off She-Hulk though, I think they have that angle covered - while there are CCA comic books with legal standing as fact, they have to be authorised by the superheroes featured in them, so anyone interested in keeping their secret identity would never have approved it being revealed in comic form. Marvel publishes the same titles, yes, recounting the same events, but what and how much information is revealed is in all likelihood different to our versions. And of course, comics of superheroes like Spider-Man (assuming there are Spider-Man comics in the MU) would be "based-on-the-real-thing" fiction produced without the cooperation of their subjects, and thus unreliable on any 'secret' information.

It does make me wonder what the MU's 'Civil War' comics would look like though. She-Hulk said the CCA (in the MU) is defunct as of 2002, but GLK&H still ordered the She-Hulk TPBs (2004 and later), so they must have some legal standing nonetheless (unless Stu just duped the head office into ordering them because he's addicted to buying comics on the company account). I wonder, in the current climate, whether MU-Marvel is still regarded as an authoratative source, or if people think Marvel is biased towards superheroes, and thus unreliable? Are they trying to portray events in a balanced fashion, or is MU Civil War being used as pro-reg propaganda?

[Tony Starkz]

And on the negative side, does this thing seem a bit... I dunno, forced to anyone else? Agents of SHIELD, gleefully gunning for kids... Reed Richards acting way out of character (or at least his worst aspects are being brought to the fore for no real reason other than to move the plot)... Former comrade and allies eagerly choosing up sides... It just rings a little false to me.

They're not kids,in the MU,they're considered super-powered heroes just like the rest of them.Plus,they were tranqs,not bullets.

Reed out of character?Being really enthusiastic about a scientific project and being all caught up in it?Ummm no,that's totally in character for Reed.There's a definite rift forming between Reed and Sue for sure.

[scratchie]

I'm having a really hard time suspending my disbelief for Civil War when Marvel (Millar?) insist on putting stupid dialogue and ideas on almost every page.

On page 3 of Issue 2, the woman who's in charge of SHIELD says "Our nightmare scenario, Unit Five; I don't think he's on his own anymore." Excuse me?? THAT'S your "nightmare scenario"?? The worst thing you could possibly imagine was that more than one super-hero would refuse to register? It doesn't sound like you put too much thought into this.

Four pages later, Reed Richards refers to "the apocalypse we're facing if unlicensed activity isn't brought under control." This is pretty ironic coming from the very first Marvel superhero. There have been superheroes for over 40 years our time (which is something like 10-15 years in internal "Marvel time"), and virtually every superhero who's still active dates from the first 15-20 years of Marvel's history, but we're supposed to believe that now, all of a sudden, the number of superheroes has reached critical mass and we're facing an "apocalypse". But the wonders of government regulation are going to make it all right. I have no problem believing that a panic-stricken government would believe that an Act like this is necessary, but I find it very hard to believe that because of one bad accident, a brilliant scientist like Reed Richards suddenly finds mathematical proof that we're headed for an "apocalypse".

On the next page, Jonah says "These clowns finally work for S.H.I.E.L.D. or they throw their butts in jail". This has bothered me from the start. The law in question is called the "Superhero Registration Act". I can believe that the government would want all superheroes to register their secret identities for liability purposes. But how did we get from there to making them all government employees? Where does the money come from to pay them? Where does the money come from to hire hundreds of new SHIELD employees to administer all these new employees? What benefit do they get from making them employees that they don't get from simple registration? All along, we've been told that the justification for this is that superheroes should have to register like doctors and other professionals do. So, since when are all doctors government employees? Every time this point comes up, any slight suspension of disbelief I've managed to come up with comes crashing to the ground.

Two pages later: "Unregistered minor tried to foil a robbery in costume..." This one sentence points up huge holes in both the concept and execution of this legislation. How do you define who's a superhero, or what constitutes an illegal act? Not all superheroes are "metahumans" (e.g. Iron Man, or Batman in the DC Universe). So how do they determine who is subject to this new Act? We're given no clue. Sure, as comic readers, we "all know" who is a superhero and who isn't, but laws aren't written that way. Laws have to define, in excruciatingly detailed language, exactly who, and what acts. are subject to them.

So if it's illegal for, say, the Falcon to foil a robbery in costume, is it illegal for Joe Citizen to foil a robbery out of costume? Why not? What if he's on his way to a Halloween party and he's wearing a Captain America costume? Is he subject to different laws than he would be if he were wearing his street clothes?

And doesn't it seem a little strange that nobody in the entire country has stopped to consider the fact that they're now making it illegal to fight crime? If the government has to take resources that they would normally use to fight crime, and use it to arrest people who are themselves fighting crime, didn't anyone consider that this might result in, you know, more crime?

I'm sorry, but this just isn't doing it for me. I don't expect superhero comic books to be 100% realistic, but I find it hard to suspend my disbelief when I feel like my intelligence is being insulted on almost every page.

On the plus side, though, McNiven sure does draw him some nice, pretty female backsides!

[Radical_dreamer]

I'm having a really hard time suspending my disbelief for Civil War when Marvel (Millar?) insist on putting stupid dialogue and ideas on almost every page.

On page 3 of Issue 2, the woman who's in charge of SHIELD says "Our nightmare scenario, Unit Five; I don't think he's on his own anymore." Excuse me?? THAT'S your "nightmare scenario"?? The worst thing you could possibly imagine was that more than one super-hero would refuse to register? It doesn't sound like you put too much thought into this.

Four pages later, Reed Richards refers to "the apocalypse we're facing if unlicensed activity isn't brought under control." This is pretty ironic coming from the very first Marvel superhero. There have been superheroes for over 40 years our time (which is something like 10-15 years in internal "Marvel time"), and virtually every superhero who's still active dates from the first 15-20 years of Marvel's history, but we're supposed to believe that now, all of a sudden, the number of superheroes has reached critical mass and we're facing an "apocalypse". But the wonders of government regulation are going to make it all right. I have no problem believing that a panic-stricken government would believe that an Act like this is necessary, but I find it very hard to believe that because of one bad accident, a brilliant scientist like Reed Richards suddenly finds mathematical proof that we're headed for an "apocalypse".

On the next page, Jonah says "These clowns finally work for S.H.I.E.L.D. or they throw their butts in jail". This has bothered me from the start. The law in question is called the "Superhero Registration Act". I can believe that the government would want all superheroes to register their secret identities for liability purposes. But how did we get from there to making them all government employees? Where does the money come from to pay them? Where does the money come from to hire hundreds of new SHIELD employees to administer all these new employees? What benefit do they get from making them employees that they don't get from simple registration? All along, we've been told that the justification for this is that superheroes should have to register like doctors and other professionals do. So, since when are all doctors government employees? Every time this point comes up, any slight suspension of disbelief I've managed to come up with comes crashing to the ground.

Two pages later: "Unregistered minor tried to foil a robbery in costume..." This one sentence points up huge holes in both the concept and execution of this legislation. How do you define who's a superhero, or what constitutes an illegal act? Not all superheroes are "metahumans" (e.g. Iron Man, or Batman in the DC Universe). So how do they determine who is subject to this new Act? We're given no clue. Sure, as comic readers, we "all know" who is a superhero and who isn't, but laws aren't written that way. Laws have to define, in excruciatingly detailed language, exactly who, and what acts. are subject to them.

So if it's illegal for, say, the Falcon to foil a robbery in costume, is it illegal for Joe Citizen to foil a robbery out of costume? Why not? What if he's on his way to a Halloween party and he's wearing a Captain America costume? Is he subject to different laws than he would be if he were wearing his street clothes?

And doesn't it seem a little strange that nobody in the entire country has stopped to consider the fact that they're now making it illegal to fight crime? If the government has to take resources that they would normally use to fight crime, and use it to arrest people who are themselves fighting crime, didn't anyone consider that this might result in, you know, more crime?

I'm sorry, but this just isn't doing it for me. I don't expect superhero comic books to be 100% realistic, but I find it hard to suspend my disbelief when I feel like my intelligence is being insulted on almost every page.

On the plus side, though, McNiven sure does draw him some nice, pretty female backsides!

That my friends is the definition of the term 'Anal Fanboy'.

[Beast]

The '616' Marvel Comic version of X-Men was very different.

A few years ago they did a one-shot comic called 'Codename: X-Men', which was supposed to be a real comic from the 616 reality. It basically played into the Anti-Mutant hysteria by making the X-Men unlikeable and cruel.

[trickster]

That my friends is the definition of the term 'Anal Fanboy'.

No, he actually makes lots of valid points.

[stillanerd]

There's another problem with Peter Parker revealing he's Spider-Man on Live TV: This "reveal" would've been the most talked about "event" even if it had appeared in the regular Spidey titles. But the fact that it appeared in PART 2 of a 7 PART STORY seems to me that every other "surprise" will pale in comparison to this. I mean, come on, this is Marvel's flagship and most popular character we are talking about. To me, this actually diminishes Civil War to an extent because every other development in the story may not live up to this particular moment.

Peter unmasking isn't just a big deal for Spider-Man fans but also those WHO DO NOT READ COMICS because EVERYBODY knows who Spider-Man is thanks to cartoons, movies, video games, etc. THIS more than any other moment in Civil War will be talked about MORE than the actual story in Civil War itself. If Marvel wanted to get people to think about the idea of vigilantism vs. police state or civil liberties vs. security--which are the themes of Civil War after all--Peter Parker revealing he's Spider-Man distracts from that. In a sense, I believe that Marvel may have risked sabotaging their own story arc for the sack of a "shock value moment."

[Keith_Martineau]

No, he actually makes lots of valid points.

He really doesn't. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd rather read a comic about the events and consequences of this, rather than have Marvel actually draft up the damn law so we can scrutinize it.

Or maybe I'll say it another way.

The story is in the STORY---not the "realistic details."

[shaunyc56]

He really doesn't. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd rather read a comic about the events and consequences of this, rather than have Marvel actually draft up the damn law so we can scrutinize it.

Or maybe I'll say it another way.

The story is in the STORY---not the "realistic details."


Yeah, I mean can we relax and just enjoy this. So far I love it. I want more Young Avengers though...

[Jack]

I hope Marvel has the balls to keep Peter's identity public for a good while before retconning it away.

See, that article that was linked in the beginning of the thread listed this as the greatest change to Spider-Man's status quo since his marriage to MJ in 1987. And that's not true. The last big change was saying that Ben was the original Spider-Man and him taking over for Peter, and we all know how quickly that went away.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

I'm having a really hard time suspending my disbelief for Civil War when Marvel (Millar?) insist on putting stupid dialogue and ideas on almost every page.
I think you're being a bit hard on the poor book - a lot of the examples you cite have fairly straight-forward explanations that, to me, don't require much disbelief to be suspended.

On page 3 of Issue 2, the woman who's in charge of SHIELD says "Our nightmare scenario, Unit Five; I don't think he's on his own anymore." Excuse me?? THAT'S your "nightmare scenario"??
She probably meant her nightmare scenario in terms of Cap going renegade, and registration in general. If he just stayed underground and refused to sign up, fine - but that he not only intends to organise an anti-reg superhero group, but has already begun to do so, would be pretty threatening to SHIELD. Not necessarily in a military sense - I don't think they're expecting Cap to start blowing up helicarriers - but for registration to pass with a minimum of fuss, the last thing they want is someone as iconic and reputable as Captain America actively working against them in a coordinated fashion with other anti-reg superheroes.

I can't answer your point about Reed - I don't know him, or the large-scale history of superheroes in the MU, in enough detail.

On the next page, Jonah says "These clowns finally work for S.H.I.E.L.D. or they throw their butts in jail". This has bothered me from the start. The law in question is called the "Superhero Registration Act".
I think Jonah's clearly talking about the 'costumed vigilante', not just anyone who happens to have a superhuman ability - for all that he tends to refer to superheroes as 'freaks', I can't imagine the man siding with a general draft of superheroes. But he's always been dead against masked crime-fighters - which is understandable, really, seeing as they're taking the law into their own hands anonymously. I think it's very likely, from what we've seen so far, that a superhero will only be 'forced' to work for SHIELD if they wish to continue to fight criminals. If they don't want to work for SHIELD, all they have to do after registering is not be vigilantes.

Two pages later: "Unregistered minor tried to foil a robbery in costume..." This one sentence points up huge holes in both the concept and execution of this legislation. How do you define who's a superhero, or what constitutes an illegal act?
The gunship crewman goes on to say the guy was identified as Patriot - I believe what happened is that the 'guy in costume' was identified as a known superhuman, from security camera footage or something, and then SHIELD went after him. SHIELD has extensive files on superheroes, evidently - they weren't just going after him on the off-chance that he had a power because he was in a mask, they knew exactly who he was (that he was Patriot, known superhuman, I mean - not his real identity, which is the point).

So how do they determine who is subject to this new Act? We're given no clue. Sure, as comic readers, we "all know" who is a superhero and who isn't, but laws aren't written that way. Laws have to define, in excruciatingly detailed language, exactly who, and what acts. are subject to them.
The Marvel Universe has a decades-long history of superheroes - I think it's very plausible that, at some point (probably many points) the issue of defining 'superhuman' has come up in courts, and precedents have been set. The people drafting the Registration Act (which, remember, had been months if not years in the making - Stamford merely fast-tracked it into law) almost certainly had the option of various legally-valid definitions of 'superhero', and just picked whichever one they thought suited them best (given the political climate, probably the most inclusive one).

On the plus side, though, McNiven sure does draw him some nice, pretty female backsides!
On this we agree 100% :D

[scratchie]

Yeah, I mean can we relax and just enjoy this. So far I love it. I want more Young Avengers though...I would love to relax and enjoy it. I just find it hard when my intelligence is being insulted on every other page. I'm not complaining that the story is inconsistent with panel 3 of page 15 of some comic published thirty years ago. I'm complaining that none of it makes any sense at all.

It's like reading a comic book where the USA is invaded by the Russians, and the government doesn't fight back, and nobody complains, and everybody walks around saying "Isn't it great that we finally got invaded by those Russians?" It might be possible to enjoy that story on its own merits, but it would be pretty hard, when everyone was acting the exact opposite of how you'd expect them to act. And if the story kept drawing attention to the fact that everyone was happy that we'd been invaded by Russians, it would be even harder to enjoy.

And then, shit like that "Nightmare scenario", that's just moronic. It's really hard to enjoy a story when the characters who are supposed to be smart act like complete idiots.

[scratchie]

She probably meant her nightmare scenario in terms of Cap going renegade, and registration in general. If he just stayed underground and refused to sign up, fine - but that he not only intends to organise an anti-reg superhero group, but has already begun to do so, would be pretty threatening to SHIELD. There's nothing in the story to indicate (at that point) that Cap has organized an anti-reg group. All he's done is capture some super-villains, and they theorize that he couldn't have done it by himself. Again, if they thought that Cap was the only superhero who would ever operate without being authorized, they're pretty stupid.


I think Jonah's clearly talking about the 'costumed vigilante', not just anyone who happens to have a superhuman ability - for all that he tends to refer to superheroes as 'freaks', I can't imagine the man siding with a general draft of superheroes. But this has been mentioned more than once, not just by Jonah. Not only are the superheroes going to be required to be registered, they're going to become government employees. That makes zero sense.


The gunship crewman goes on to say the guy was identified as Patriot - I believe what happened is that the 'guy in costume' was identified as a known superhuman, from security camera footage or something, and then SHIELD went after him. Really, though, the details of how they identified him or what particular law he's breaking are less important than the overall idea: "He's foiling a robbery... GET HIM!"

Part of the problem is that the writing in this series has been very lazy. Other than the Stamford incident, we've seen nothing to indicate why ordinary citizens are now terrified of superheroes. Sure, Stamford was bad, but it was Nitro who killed all those people, not Speedball, and the heroes have decades of good deeds behind them to earn them some good will or the benefit of the doubt. Where are the Rush Limbaughs or Sean Hannitys of Earth-616 to proclaim that they want anyone who wants to fight crime to be able to fight crime?

Given the amount of political and emotional commitment most people have to "get tough on crime", I don't see how one accident make it so that arresting people who fight crime is now the nation's top priority. We're just supposed to accept that it's so, because it's there in the comic, printed on glossy paper.

[Jake V]

It's like reading a comic book where the USA is invaded by the Russians, and the government doesn't fight back, and nobody complains, and everybody walks around saying "Isn't it great that we finally got invaded by those Russians?" It might be possible to enjoy that story on its own merits, but it would be pretty hard, when everyone was acting the exact opposite of how you'd expect them to act. And if the story kept drawing attention to the fact that everyone was happy that we'd been invaded by Russians, it would be even harder to enjoy.
So you're saying that it would be a better idea for all the superheroes to go to war against the American government, and the genuine will of the people? They should reject what actual citizens want because they choose to go and play dress-up with masks on?

And then, shit like that "Nightmare scenario", that's just moronic. It's really hard to enjoy a story when the characters who are supposed to be smart act like complete idiots.
I dunno about anyone else, but Captain freaking America, as charasmatic and symbolic as he is, forming a group of underground heroes specifically to undermine and fight against you is really a nightmare scenario if I'm a SHIELD agent. They've essentially got the worlds greatest superhero and a small army fighting against them. yeah, it's bad news.

[Canadian]

My first reaction when I read the issue was....:eek: WTF?!?

At least Marvel is making me buy issue #3.:p

Well, Scarlet Witch could just change everything back if at some point the Civil War negatively impacts the sales at Marvel (maybe that is one of the reasons they let her melt away and 'disappear');) .

[Dos]

I was so happy reading this issue. I know that every fanboy died inside, and that made me feel warm inside.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I know Spiderman is DEAD to me. He could up and die and I think no one would care anymore. What a way to futhor kick dirt on this once proud charactor. F-ckin waste.

[Kevinroc]

I gotta respect the balls Marvel have with this story.

The spoiler leaking out is definitely not what Marvel wanted but man, balls of steel.

[Kevinroc]

I know Spiderman is DEAD to me. He could up and die and I think no one would care anymore. What a way to futhor kick dirt on this once proud charactor. F-ckin waste.

Tell us how you really feel about Spider-Man going public. :p

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Fan for the last 12 years. No more however. This isn't Spiderman anymore at all. He's some peoples wet dream to screw with. Why does the costume matter anymore or the name ?

What a f-cking joke.

[Kevinroc]

Fan for the last 12 years. No more however. This isn't Spiderman anymore at all. He's some peoples wet dream to screw with. Why does the costume matter anymore or the name ?

What a f-cking joke.

Oh my god, Marvel is screwing with Spider-Man. Why, they've never done that before.

Nope... Not at all...

Why, that Spider-Man should have it totally easy. Nothing bad should happen to him.

[moeller61]

Two pages later: "Unregistered minor tried to foil a robbery in costume..." This one sentence points up huge holes in both the concept and execution of this legislation. How do you define who's a superhero, or what constitutes an illegal act? Not all superheroes are "metahumans" (e.g. Iron Man, or Batman in the DC Universe). So how do they determine who is subject to this new Act? We're given no clue. Sure, as comic readers, we "all know" who is a superhero and who isn't, but laws aren't written that way. Laws have to define, in excruciatingly detailed language, exactly who, and what acts. are subject to them.

So if it's illegal for, say, the Falcon to foil a robbery in costume, is it illegal for Joe Citizen to foil a robbery out of costume? Why not? What if he's on his way to a Halloween party and he's wearing a Captain America costume? Is he subject to different laws than he would be if he were wearing his street clothes?

Actually, as a young attorney who has to wade through this crap all the time, you would be suprised how many extremely important words in legislation remain undefined. These problems are cleared up by the courts, who look at the legislative history, common usage, and other factors to come up with a definition. If Marvel had tied up all the loose ends nicely it would actually be much less realistic then what they did. I would say the more unrealistiv part of the story is that no one has filed a suit seeking an injunction of the law or anything like that yet.

As for the Falcon in costume opposed to Joe Citizen out of costume question, there is a logical difference. IF the falcon is in costume his identity is obscured, which means that he cannot be identified for liability purposes, etc. if he screws up. Joe Citizen out of costume can be identified, and also does not have the power or ability to evade police detection like the falcon does. It is not like being a superhero is a constitutional right or anything like that. Lots of professions have laws that govern how they are practiced. As an attorney I have to have malpractice insurance in order to practice law, as doctors to practice medicine. Pilots cannot drink within 8 hours of flight, same as air traffic controllers. All of these professions, sans air traffic controllers, also require licensing and registration. It is not too much further of a step to say that only the government can employ registered super heros. The government are the only people who can employ soldiers legally right now for instance. I think that Civil War, from a legal standpoint at least, is a lot more accurate than you are giving it credit for. As to the characterizations, well I can't help you too much there.

[shakespear]

I dont like this AT ALL.

I HATE what they have done/are doing with Spider-Man

But I am confident that it can all be reconned away...


So I keep reading..

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Tell us how you really feel about Spider-Man going public. :p


This is balls ? I mean for years the whole situation was a great " What If " comic . I admit it was the scene you'd see at the very end of the charactor. If you wrote a Spiderman: The End , this is the scene you'd want. Because theres no need for Peter to be Spiderman anymore.

Now he's gonna stay at the Tower , hang with heroes 24/7 , be a policeman , and now have no secret ID to come back too. At some point you have to stop and wonder...this is Peter Parker ? In the 90's the Clone Saga had people pushing the charactor father away from his roots.

10 years later that mistake repeats itself with worse storylines.

[davros42]

They're not kids,in the MU,they're considered super-powered heroes just like the rest of them.Plus,they were tranqs,not bullets
No, they're not. Hence the real Avengers trying to shut them down in the first Young Avengers story arc. And, the whole point in bringing them down (aside from the point that they're unregistered) is that they are minors, just kids, and need someone to keep an eye on them. And I was referring more to the enthusiasm the SHIELD agents had towards taking down kids, than I was the actual weapons being used. And the guy driving the bus? Do they not have to pass a psych test to join SHIELD?


Reed out of character?Being really enthusiastic about a scientific project and being all caught up in it?Ummm no,that's totally in character for Reed.There's a definite rift forming between Reed and Sue for sure.

Maybe, out of character is a bit strong. Reed does have these tendencies on occasion (more so in recent years than before). But it still feels a bit forced to me, like the depths of a character are being ignored just for plot's convenience, to set up pointless tension within the FF. A relatively minor flaw in a decent story.

[Kevinroc]

This is balls ? I mean for years the whole situation was a great " What If " comic . I admit it was the scene you'd see at the very end of the charactor. If you wrote a Spiderman: The End , this is the scene you'd want. Because theres no need for Peter to be Spiderman anymore.

Now he's gonna stay at the Tower , hang with heroes 24/7 , be a policeman , and now have no secret ID to come back too. At some point you have to stop and wonder...this is Peter Parker ? In the 90's the Clone Saga had people pushing the charactor father away from his roots.

10 years later that mistake repeats itself with worse storylines.

Do you actually think this current status quo is going to last more than a few issues? I thought you've read comics before.

The other shoe is gonna drop and things are going to get really crazy.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Oh my god, Marvel is screwing with Spider-Man. Why, they've never done that before.

Nope... Not at all...

Why, that Spider-Man should have it totally easy. Nothing bad should happen to him.


I can take him being homeless , seeing Gwen bang Norman and him dealing with super natural elements. Hell I even took them over doing the Avengers role in his books. But this....f-ck this.

Theres some things to do to add drama and theres things you do that don't. Hell whats the point of being Spiderman anymore ? Why even use the name anymore ?

Peter David is the only one who gets this charactor anymore and now he has this b.s. tossed in his lap.

[Melanism]

For once Spider-Man's future is very cloudy and I like it this way.

[Exo]

Not only are the superheroes going to be required to be registered, they're going to become government employees. That makes zero sense.

I figure the law requires that they'd only be registered with the government. But incidentally, if you wish to further operate as a powered individual, you need to be properly trained and frequently checked on by an established agency (such as SHIELD). Basically the government offers you a job and I suspect most, if not all, of the registered heroes will take it. If they did it for free then they'll most definitely do it for a fixed compensation.

Essentially after registration:

a) it's either an early retirement, IMO something most active superheroes wouldn't dream of doing.

or

b) become a government employee.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Do you actually think this current status quo is going to last more than a few issues? I thought you've read comics before.

The other shoe is gonna drop and things are going to get really crazy.


It better....and if its for the worst ( MJ retconned away ) I won't be happy.

[nightscream]

Any prediction on who will triumph in the end? Or will Marvel work it out in the end? If sides get split up permantly then say hello to many new continuities. But I doubt that Marvel will do that and if they do hopefully they will find a way to fix it.

[NMoline]

So this is the Shocking ending!? What a disappointment. We all knew this was about to happen from Spider-Man's solo book. How the hell could this be a shocking surprise since it has been foreshadowed for weeks? I love the story but I was excited for something actually shocking. Big Deal Spider-Man is Peter Parker it does nothing for me especially since MJ and Aunt May encouraged him.

[Kevinroc]

I can take him being homeless , seeing Gwen bang Norman and him dealing with super natural elements. Hell I even took them over doing the Avengers role in his books. But this....f-ck this.

Theres some things to do to add drama and theres things you do that don't. Hell whats the point of being Spiderman anymore ? Why even use the name anymore ?

Peter David is the only one who gets this charactor anymore and now he has this b.s. tossed in his lap.

Well, if Spider-Man starts killing people left and right, I would agree that Marvel did something that totally messed up the character. Going by the actual context of this storyline, the actual discussions from Amazing #532 and Front Line #1, I can see some actual proper build-up towards this temporary status quo change.

And this thing is getting lots of publicity for Marvel. It's in the New York Post. On Yahoo. And was mentioned on The Howard Stern Show (with the tagline of "Marvel Comics Civil War").

[Tony Starkz]

No, they're not. Hence the real Avengers trying to shut them down in the first Young Avengers story arc. And, the whole point in bringing them down (aside from the point that they're unregistered) is that they are minors, just kids, and need someone to keep an eye on them. And I was referring more to the enthusiasm the SHIELD agents had towards taking down kids, than I was the actual weapons being used. And the guy driving the bus? Do they not have to pass a psych test to join SHIELD?



Maybe, out of character is a bit strong. Reed does have these tendencies on occasion (more so in recent years than before). But it still feels a bit forced to me, like the depths of a character are being ignored just for plot's convenience, to set up pointless tension within the FF. A relatively minor flaw in a decent story.

The Avengers see them as kids.The Government and SHIELD are a whole different story.All they see are the powers that these kids posess,and that groups them in with all the other heroes.Simple as that.

[scratchie]

So you're saying that it would be a better idea for all the superheroes to go to war against the American government, and the genuine will of the people?No, I'm not. Sorry if I caused you any confusion.

[Iron Syndicate]

I keep something in mind that I heard almost every writer on the face of the planet say: "What can help us tell a better story?"

So... is revealing Spider-Man's secret identity shocking? Yes.
Is it the ballsiest move Marvel has EVER made? Pretty Much.
Will it help tell better Spidey Stories? F**k yeah...

This opens up so many new directions. From the benign "every villain in the universe goes after MJ and May" to more interesting directions like "Spidey: Agent of Shield". The possibilities are endless.

And now, here comes something that will send the fanboys frothing... Spidey made the RIGHT move. Now let me grab by baseball bat, and I'll explain why... In the past couple of years Spidey has grown and matured. He really developed, as a character. For most of the nineties Spidey was stuck in a rut. Yeah they made "changes" (clone saga and what not) but those changes were ret-conned away, so they're worthless. But over the last several years look what happened to poor ol' Pete - He joined the Avengers, he got a good, steady job, He knows that MJ and May are safe (they are constantly surrounded by Heroes after-all), He died, came back, got new powers, got a new costume (which is... wait for it... pretty cool!), and even had a glimpse of his "perfect" life (House of M). All in all, this recent development is well due.

And I say, good job Mark Millar, good job Joe Q., Keep up the good work!

I hope they don't ret-con this one away, it's a keeper.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Well, if Spider-Man starts killing people left and right, I would agree that Marvel did something that totally messed up the character. Going by the actual context of this storyline, the actual discussions from Amazing #532 and Front Line #1, I can see some actual proper build-up towards this temporary status quo change.

I honest to god thought the writers understood the charctor by now. I really thought that something would happen and things would go in a totally different direction as far as revealing his identity. Of course...this is Marvel.


And this thing is getting lots of publicity for Marvel. It's in the New York Post. On Yahoo. And was mentioned on The Howard Stern Show (with the tagline of "Marvel Comics Civil War").

And so was DC's Batwoman , Identity Crisis and OYL. Its all hit the major press at some time comics wise. Civil War was in it weeks earlier Press wise. Doesn't mean fans will rush to get the comics anyhow.

Odds are this has pissed the fanbase who were dropping the Spidey titles to leave faster. It happened after Sins Past and will happen here.

[Effect]

Finally read the issue, great all around I feel. Good to know that Fury is in the mix and loved how Captain America and the Falcon rescued the Young Avengers. Was that Cloak and Dagger there as well?

I just hope we find out who is in the Daredevil costume. I love that he's seems to be getting a lot of scene time but want to know who's behind the mask.

This whole 42 thing sounds interesting as well. A superhero prison? Done by Reed, Pym, and Stark? Yikes. Anyone else catch the dual feelings from Iron Man. Around other heros he's all sure but alone he still is hoping he's doing the right thing. As for Peter, I liked the unmasking. Especailly JJJ reaction. :) I loved the proud and happy looks on Aunt May's and MJ's faces as they watched everything unfold. Good way to end the issue with all sorts of heros watching the TV to find out what's going on. Can't wait till next month to find out what the fallout is in both CW#3 and ASM.

Anyone else catch Sue of the FF's apperance after she told Reed she was going to see Johnny in the hospital? Forshadowing to anything?

[Red Lotus]

I thought the issue was great. I'm a fan of Millar and I think he is doing a great job.



Marvel did a good job with how they Let Spider-man reveal his self. Even if I am a long time Spider-man fan who thinks that they just killed Peter Parker, but the bright side is he has been buffering a long drawn out death and now they just finially put the poor guy out of his misery.

I do think that the people who have said that he is going to change his name and go on the run or right. If he does switch sides then this is the only thing he can do.

But I do have to ask Joe if he really had to go through this much trouble to end the marriage.

[Conn Seanery]

So this is the Shocking ending!? What a disappointment. We all knew this was about to happen from Spider-Man's solo book. How the hell could this be a shocking surprise since it has been foreshadowed for weeks? I love the story but I was excited for something actually shocking. Big Deal Spider-Man is Peter Parker it does nothing for me especially since MJ and Aunt May encouraged him.
Not everyone reads Spider-Man.

[Effect]

Understood the character? I think they do and they also understand that he has to change. He can't exist in a timeless bubble while the rest of the Marvel universe grows and changes. Spider-man has to change as well. I understand a lot of people want the Spider-man they grew up with but why must he even be the person you grew up with now? Didn't you change growing up? Didn't your opinion and stance on things change as a result of the events in your life?

Peter became Spider-man when he was but a kid, a teen. The things he did there were a result of his outlook on life as that 15-17 year old and as he grows and changes his outlook and understanding of life should change as a result. As should his fears and people willing to take risk. I think Aunt May made a good point about this when she talked to Peter about the registration and even when she found out about him being Spider-man about the promise he made as a kid that he was trying to keep. He can't really do that since he isn't a kid anymore and he has to rethink things.

[Red Lotus]

I do have one question. Why is Cable with Cap. I thought Cable was pulling Deadpool strings. If Deadpool is a hero hunter then wouldn't that mean its because Cable wanted him to be one.

[Kevinroc]

I honest to god thought the writers understood the charctor by now. I really thought that something would happen and things would go in a totally different direction as far as revealing his identity. Of course...this is Marvel.

Going by the actual direction of this storyline, do you actually think the people at Marvel don't understand the basic concepts of Spider-Man?

Did you not read Amazing #532 and Front Line #1?

This storyline is much more intricate and complicated than you seem to believe it is.

And so was DC's Batwoman , Identity Crisis and OYL. Its all hit the major press at some time comics wise. Civil War was in it weeks earlier Press wise. Doesn't mean fans will rush to get the comics anyhow.

The problem with Batwoman is that the entire context of public thought regarding her will be that she is a lesbian. She could end up being a great character or she could end up being a sucky character. But her being a lesbian will end up being her defining trait. On the one hand, that's kinda cool and pretty progressive. On the other, it's kinda pathetic that the only way to get attention for Batwoman is to make her a lesbian.

The crux of this Spidey development as the mainstream understands it is pretty simple yet wonderfully complicated. The Government says that heroes either come forward or will be arrested. Spidey chooses to come forward.

Odds are this has pissed the fanbase who were dropping the Spidey titles to leave faster. It happened after Sins Past and will happen here.

Marvel Civil War is HOT!

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73157

[Effect]

I do have one question. Why is Cable with Cap. I thought Cable was pulling Deadpool strings. If Deadpool is a hero hunter then wouldn't that mean its because Cable wanted him to be one.

I never understood the Cable/Deadpool pairing. How actually did it work? Where they partners, hunting each other, etc?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I keep something in mind that I heard almost every writer on the face of the planet say: "What can help us tell a better story?"

So... is revealing Spider-Man's secret identity shocking? Yes.
Is it the ballsiest move Marvel has EVER made? Pretty Much.
Will it help tell better Spidey Stories? F**k yeah...

Ok names some storylines that can be done since everyone knows and what kind of supporting cast will we see ?

This opens up so many new directions. From the benign "every villain in the universe goes after MJ and May" to more interesting directions like "Spidey: Agent of Shield". The possibilities are endless.

Nothing against Shield . But its not a place I see Peter Parker working for. Of course Joe Quesada has pretty much wiped all traces of the charactor away so I expect Peter will happily go to work , carry a gun and blow some asshole away as a Shield Agent now.

And now, here comes something that will send the fanboys frothing... Spidey made the RIGHT move. Now let me grab by baseball bat, and I'll explain why... In the past couple of years Spidey has grown and matured. He really developed, as a character. For most of the nineties Spidey was stuck in a rut. Yeah they made "changes" (clone saga and what not) but those changes were ret-conned away, so they're worthless.

Most of the Clone Saga wasn't bad. In fact a few of the books were very good. The rut was them extending the story beyond working. Of course a lot of the Clone Saga was very good . We had interesting villains like The Jackel & Kaine.

Peter hasn't grown at all. If you call haphazard events like " Sins Past " and " The Other " as growing then no. The only growing is he's become more of a team player and joined the Avengers. Thats pretty much it and accepted the supernatural aspects to his origin now.

Those are the only 2 growth spurts I can see.


But over the last several years look what happened to poor ol' Pete - He joined the Avengers, he got a good, steady job,

He joined them but never leaves and his supporting cast of his books became a stripped down nightmare. Anytime you have to make Wolverine and Captain America supporting cast then its not working.

People could understand him joining The Avengers. Its the fact he never left them . Its like Batman in the JLA. Could anyone accept a Batman who has Superman and Wonder Woman as his only supporting cast ? ......be honest.

He knows that MJ and May are safe (they are constantly surrounded by Heroes after-all),

Aunt May and Jarvis is a good story-plot. Now Mary-Jane has Captain America to worry beside I suppose.

He died, came back, got new powers, got a new costume (which is... wait for it... pretty cool!), and even had a glimpse of his "perfect" life (House of M). All in all, this recent development is well due.

His new costume odds are will be replaced soon enough by his classic old one. His new powers have been mocked to a high level and House of M was nice. This recent Development was not " due " . In fact it drives a stake futher into the charactor.

I suspect Parker will now hit a bar and get a drinking habit next. Because thier running out of suprise events to keep fans and each one drives more to leave after each arc.


And I say, good job Mark Millar, good job Joe Q., Keep up the good work!

I hope they don't ret-con this one away, it's a keeper.

I hope they don't eithor because its too little too late. They've f-cked the charactor over soo much. Its gonna take a huge effort to get fans back to the charactor. To say " were sorry for doing this . "

Odds are the only one who can save Spiderman is at DC and his name is Geoff Johns.

[Conn Seanery]

Maybe wait until issue #7 is out before declaring a character is dead to you. Most people seem to believe Peter will be switching to the Anti-Registration side, isn't that closer to the good ol' Spider-Man you're so desperately clinging to?

[lucygardens]

You can see the next-to-last Civil War #2 pane on this AP blog (http://asapblogs.typepad.com/theslug/2006/06/spidey_has_no_i.html) and a funny e-mail from "Spidey's publicist."

[Exo]

How is having his identity exposed a bad thing? It'll lead to newer/fresher stories which is a good thing in my book.

I applaud Marvel. By going against the wishes of diehard fans and doing something daring and exciting with such a popular character.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Going by the actual direction of this storyline, do you actually think the people at Marvel don't understand the basic concepts of Spider-Man?

Did you not read Amazing #532 and Front Line #1?

This storyline is much more intricate and complicated than you seem to believe it is.

I got ASM #532 and Frontline. I always felt the writers would know where Peter would draw the line with his backing of Tony Stark in this. I know the situation is creating new divisions and all. We've seen that. But I'm sure some out there thought Peter would stand up to keep his secret because he had worked hard for years to keep the world from knowing.

Its not too complicated. The charactor used to stand for something. He sadly no longer does.


The crux of this Spidey development as the mainstream understands it is pretty simple yet wonderfully complicated. The Government says that heroes either come forward or will be arrested. Spidey chooses to come forward.

Yes because he's put in a corner again. Peter's been on the other side of the law. He would have again to stand for what kind of hero he is.

I wonder why even call himself Spiderman anymore ? I'm being serious...whats the point. Its not like it matters anymore.


Marvel Civil War is HOT!

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73157

Its a hight debated topic. Reminds me of House of M and Sins Past.

[Jake V]

I honest to god thought the writers understood the charctor by now. I really thought that something would happen and things would go in a totally different direction as far as revealing his identity. Of course...this is Marvel.
They understand the character a hell of a lot better than you do.

Peter Parker isn't some unwavering, monolithic, single-minded idiot that keeps his mind made up no matter what situation he's in. He's a complex, intelligent, rational guy who has the ability to change his mind depending on whatever new situation he finds himself in. Responsibility is the most important thing to him, and keeping the mask on and the identity secret is nothing more than a way to avoid the responsibility that comes with going out in the world and fighting crime on your own. Taking the mask off and not being ashamed of who he is, is the ultimate display of the responsibility that is so central to who Peter Parker is. He be a coward any other way. And I hope you don't believe Spider-Man to be a coward.

[bigman45]

they are just trying to bring back a buzz to the MU thats all :eek: .. its just a copy of what DCU did with IC

[Sheldon]

Spidey survived the clone saga, he'll survive this.

[Jake V]

I wonder why even call himself Spiderman anymore ? I'm being serious...whats the point. Its not like it matters anymore.
Why is Johnny Storm the Human Torch? Why is Logan still Wolverine? It's a name that signifies the kind of hero they are.

[Ravenheart]

I haven't decided if I'm excited or disappointed by the final page.

[Jake V]

they are just trying to bring back a buzz to the MU thats all :eek: .. its just a copy of what DCU did with IC
They're trying to copy DC? You mean they're intentionally trying to become the #2 american comic book publisher?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Maybe wait until issue #7 is out before declaring a character is dead to you. Most people seem to believe Peter will be switching to the Anti-Registration side, isn't that closer to the good ol' Spider-Man you're so desperately clinging to?


Who wants to read a super hero comic where everyone knows who Spiderman is ? What can you do with it when the entire world knows . Where the intrique and plots that you can do with a charactor among normal people ?

Besides the other things have added up over time to me. I'll come back when this entire mess is retconned away down the road. This was the final straw because over time I had dropped my Spidey titles. Which is sad...because after #533 , I won't have a Spidey title on my pull list for the 1st time in 12 to 13 years. :(

My secret hope is Geoff Johns rides in and just totally tosses a lot of the things we saw in a garbage can. If anyone can save Spiderman...its Johns.

[alschroeder]

What stupid thing to do. Has ANYONE at Marvel ead Spider-Man books prior to Bendis on Ultimate? Spider-Man life has been destroyed on multiple occasions thanks to bagduys knowing who he is. Good bye Aunt May and MJ, Peter just got you both killed.

Yep.
Besides, secret identities serve another function---giving a focus of identification with the reader. I love the FF, but I also loved shy, studious Peter Parker who got out of his repressions as Spidey. Now...

I'm probably the last fan of secret identities left, but...although I'm sure there will be a huge sales jump at first, in the long run, it's ruined the character for me. He'll be a celebrity in BOTH identities. He won't be a nebbish. He can't really be a loser, not in the same way.

It will be interesting to see JJJ have his heart attack and/or sue Pete for selling photos under fraudelent circumstances, though....although with Tony Stark bankrolling Pete, what does he care?

And Aunt May's life expectancy can be numbered in hours.
---Al


---Al

[nightscream]

Im going to have to agree with bigman on this one. Its another stunt to bring in fans or newfans. Although DC's Crisis on Infinate Earth's was on a much much larger scale, and was way more involved.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Why is Johnny Storm the Human Torch? Why is Logan still Wolverine? It's a name that signifies the kind of hero they are.


Theres a differance...Peter puts on the mask he's Peter Parker , Spiderman. Thats who he is behind the mask. We've seen Wolverine not wear his mask as well as Johnny Storm . Hell they even had Wolverine go with just a jacket at one time...sans mask.

Peter was different.

[Kevinroc]

I got ASM #532 and Frontline. I always felt the writers would know where Peter would draw the line with his backing of Tony Stark in this. I know the situation is creating new divisions and all. We've seen that. But I'm sure some out there thought Peter would stand up to keep his secret because he had worked hard for years to keep the world from knowing.

Its not too complicated. The charactor used to stand for something. He sadly no longer does.

Spider-Man stands for responsibility. Anyone that knows anything about the character understands that. Once Spider-Man no longer stands for responsibility, he is no longer the Spider-Man that people love.




Yes because he's put in a corner again. Peter's been on the other side of the law. He would have again to stand for what kind of hero he is.

Do you even know what Spider-Man stands for?

I wonder why even call himself Spiderman anymore ? I'm being serious...whats the point. Its not like it matters anymore.

So Johhny Storm shouldn't call himself The Human Torch?

What about when Wally's ID as The Flash was public? Should he still have called himself The Flash?

Its a hight debated topic. Reminds me of House of M and Sins Past.

House of M, despite criticisms, actually did sell.

[Jake V]

Who wants to read a super hero comic where everyone knows who Spiderman is ?
Me?
What can you do with it when the entire world knows .
Lots?
Where the intrique and plots that you can do with a charactor among normal people ?
Are you insinuating that 100% of the intrigue and plots from before were all derived from Spider-Man's identity being secret?

[Effect]

They understand the character a hell of a lot better than you do.

Peter Parker isn't some unwavering, monolithic, single-minded idiot that keeps his mind made up no matter what situation he's in. He's a complex, intelligent, rational guy who has the ability to change his mind depending on whatever new situation he finds himself in. Responsibility is the most important thing to him, and keeping the mask on and the identity secret is nothing more than a way to avoid the responsibility that comes with going out in the world and fighting crime on your own. Taking the mask off and not being ashamed of who he is, is the ultimate display of the responsibility that is so central to who Peter Parker is. He be a coward any other way. And I hope you don't believe Spider-Man to be a coward.

I can't agree more with this. This is why I think it's not so much that Peter is unmasking and the reasons why that has some people upset. I think it's more to do with them not wanting any change and wanting him to be as he started out which is just not possible in any logical sense I think because he isn't a kid anymore. He isn't a teenager but an adult who would have a different outlook on things.

Do I think he might be being tricked a bit or at least being used, yes. That doesn't change that this is a responsible thing for him to do and that the issue is something bigger then him. He wants to use his powers to help people. If he wants to continue to do this as it's very important to him he has to do this. If not he runs away and is running away something that you want Spider-man to do? I don't think so.

Did he need to unmask to the world? I not so sure but at the same time it really puts a face on the Registration, same way that Tony did. Spider-man has a nice hate and like relationship with the public. Just as Iron Man said (in a way, not word for word), it's about building trust. Sure Spider-man can just sign up but would that really make him less of a menace? Unmasking and showing he's just a normal guy wanting to use his powers for good and isn't ashamed of what he does is the goal here I think. Thus why the need to talk to the world and reports I believe to clean up his image which isn't that good. Sure we know he's good but with JJJ's work over the years I don't think so in the MU. At least that's the direction Aunt May and MJ are looking at. It's possible the direction Iron Man was going at and why he asked Peter to do what he did.

Of all the heroes I think a public unmasking by his own will is the best and only way for Spider-man to be really accepted by the public, by taking things by the reigns and telling things himself and show trueself and then people will really pay attention to his actions now that there is a face behind the mask and not just rely on the word of some newspaper to help form their opinion.

[Jake V]

Theres a differance...Peter puts on the mask he's Peter Parker , Spiderman. Thats who he is behind the mask. We've seen Wolverine not wear his mask as well as Johnny Storm . Hell they even had Wolverine go with just a jacket at one time...sans mask.

Peter was different.
How so? Are you saying that it's entirely the mask that makes Spider-Man?

[Exo]

Who wants to read a super hero comic where everyone knows who Spiderman is? What can you do with it when the entire world knows . Where the intrique and plots that you can do with a charactor among normal people?

Just because you lack imagination doesn't necessarily mean the writers over at Marvel do aswell. Give this whole ordeal some time to advance before hacking it down.

[static]

this is the most major move by Marvel or DC since the Orginal crisis. I think it raises the bar for Spiderman writers in such a good way! how many people actually didnt know the secret Id anyway?? After Aunt May and MJ and all his freaking friends and other heros...as well as vilians like the Greengoblin, Jackal and Venom among others knowing it the only one truly schocked is JJJ ! and the moment was played perfectly! very well done! now i want some fresh spidey stories! the secret id as been rehashed so many times i honestly havent seen a distincitve take in decades on it! this opens up a million new directions to take spidey ---dont be scared folks ! Spidey was the last Big Hero with a secret ID...the fantastic four, the xmen, cap, ironman, daredevil, the hulk are all out ....this is the last hurah for the secret ID .....i like the direction...:)

[Conn Seanery]

Who wants to read a super hero comic where everyone knows who Spiderman is ? What can you do with it when the entire world knows . Where the intrique and plots that you can do with a charactor among normal people ?
Just because you can't envision how it can work doesn't mean it can't be done. I can't imagine the amount of people that could come forward who've known or interacted with Peter Parker, and have a total geek-out moment when they realize "Holy sh*t, that was Spider-Man!" People at the Bugle? Peter's former students? High School classmates? Neighbors? Friends? Enemies? I'm looking forward to seeing how they follow this up. If anything, I think it'll open up a whole new area of human interest stories with Peter-Man.

[Beast]

Who wants to read a super hero comic where everyone knows who Spiderman is ? What can you do with it when the entire world knows . Where the intrique and plots that you can do with a charactor among normal people ?

Besides the other things have added up over time to me. I'll come back when this entire mess is retconned away down the road. This was the final straw because over time I had dropped my Spidey titles. Which is sad...because after #533 , I won't have a Spidey title on my pull list for the 1st time in 12 to 13 years. :(

My secret hope is Geoff Johns rides in and just totally tosses a lot of the things we saw in a garbage can. If anyone can save Spiderman...its Johns.
I'm not a 616 Spider-Man fan at all, but even I can see the possibilities for compelling stories here. Every hero has villains, even the public ones. And their families aren't always in danger because of it. Besides, there's a lot of possibilities here. Just look at the big picture and the possibilities.

Look what a well loved and respected person Peter/Spider-Man was in the House of M version of reality, and everyone knew who he was. Just consider the potential of things like the first meeting with Peter and JJJ after this bomb dropped, or Peter and Flash, or any of his old support characters. Hell, this could be just what's needed for those old support characters to return to Peter's life. How is this going to change and effect May and Mary Jane's life, and their interactions with their friends. Or May's relationship with Jarvis.

How's his students going to react, when they find out their teacher is Spider-Man. There's a ton of possibilities to explore here, and I think it will be a fun ride for Spidey fans, if they can get over the fact that he's revealed himself and just have some fun with it. If/When Peter switches sides and joins with Captain America's group, that will bring back some of the old Status Quo of people not trusting Spider-Man again. Sounds like fun to me. :)

[SUPERECWFAN1]

They understand the character a hell of a lot better than you do.

Ohh yeah...Gwen banging Norman Osborn is the hieght of that understanding I'm sure. ;)

Peter Parker isn't some unwavering, monolithic, single-minded idiot that keeps his mind made up no matter what situation he's in. He's a complex, intelligent, rational guy who has the ability to change his mind depending on whatever new situation he finds himself in. Responsibility is the most important thing to him, and keeping the mask on and the identity secret is nothing more than a way to avoid the responsibility that comes with going out in the world and fighting crime on your own.

Peter also understood at one time that his family faced a risk anytime he un-masked and his identity came out. That the moment his ID was exposed they ran a greater risk because all the evil , bad guys he had fought over the years as Spiderman would blame those closest to him.

That took more responsibility being a person who knows it could get easier , the press and police could look the other way more if he unmasked , but the risk was there. I always loved that part of him.


Taking the mask off and not being ashamed of who he is, is the ultimate display of the responsibility that is so central to who Peter Parker is. He be a coward any other way. And I hope you don't believe Spider-Man to be a coward.

He's a coward for not taking the stance he once believed so much in. I'm sorry , this may seem a more responsible action to go along with the Government and unmask and all. That he's doing it for his family , but he used to know his family ran a risk if he did unmask .

That seemingly is out the window anymore at Marvel. :(

[Radical_dreamer]

Fan for the last 12 years. No more however. This isn't Spiderman anymore at all. He's some peoples wet dream to screw with. Why does the costume matter anymore or the name ?

What a f-cking joke.

uh uh. Sure. Omg, a new issue featuring the goblin!! I must buy three comics. I am so sick of these empty threats by people who give themselves too much importance. "WoooiN! Marvel is writing a story I don't like! I will never buy any title with that character ever again!! WOOOOIN!! It's not fair!!! I've been a fan for 12 years. I own these characters. They are made to obey my will!!!"

Honestly people, get over it. You think you not buying an issue is going to make the slightest difference, that millions of spider-fans won't keep buying multiple copies?!

[Beast]

Just because you can't envision how it can work doesn't mean it can't be done. I can't imagine the amount of people that could come forward who've known or interacted with Peter Parker, and have a total geek-out moment when they realize "Holy sh*t, that was Spider-Man!" People at the Bugle? Peter's former students? High School classmates? Neighbors? Friends? Enemies? I'm looking forward to seeing how they follow this up. If anything, I think it'll open up a whole new area of human interest stories with Peter-Man.
Exactly! Great minds think alike.

If you want Peter Parker with no marriage and no public ID, there's always Ultimate Spider-Man.

Aunt May doesn't know his idenity and he even has Webshooters, for those Spider-Man purists. ;) :D

[philly]

this is the most major move by Marvel or DC since the Orginal crisis. I think it raises the bar for Spiderman writers in such a good way! how many people actually didnt know the secret Id anyway?? After Aunt May and MJ and all his freaking friends and other heros...as well as vilians like the Greengoblin, Jackal and Venom among others knowing it the only one truly schocked is JJJ ! and the moment was played perfectly! very well done! now i want some fresh spidey stories! the secret id as been rehashed so many times i honestly havent seen a distincitve take in decades on it! this opens up a million new directions to take spidey ---dont be scared folks ! Spidey was the last Big Hero with a secret ID...the fantastic four, the xmen, cap, ironman, daredevil, the hulk are all out ....this is the last hurah for the secret ID .....i like the direction...:)

No offence but after today, i lost all respect for marvel and this act shows that they don't give a damn about the fans or their characters.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Just because you can't envision how it can work doesn't mean it can't be done. I can't imagine the amount of people that could come forward who've known or interacted with Peter Parker, and have a total geek-out moment when they realize "Holy sh*t, that was Spider-Man!" People at the Bugle? Peter's former students? High School classmates? Neighbors? Friends? Enemies? I'm looking forward to seeing how they follow this up. If anything, I think it'll open up a whole new area of human interest stories with Peter-Man.

Besides that...what else can you see. I know after Aunt May found out , she had one good run in with JJJ. Then faded to the background.

[philly]

uh uh. Sure. Omg, a new issue featuring the goblin!! I must buy three comics. I am so sick of these empty threats by people who give themselves too much importance. "WoooiN! Marvel is writing a story I don't like! I will never buy any title with that character ever again!! WOOOOIN!! It's not fair!!! I've been a fan for 12 years. I own these characters. They are made to obey my will!!!"

Honestly people, get over it. You think you not buying an issue is going to make the slightest difference, that millions of spider-fans won't keep buying multiple copies?!

Don't underestimate the power of a pissed off fan base.

[algertman]

Just because you lack imagination doesn't necessarily mean the writers over at Marvel do aswell.

Based on the major MARVEL comics in the last few years they do lack imagination

[Beast]

No offence but after today, i lost all respect for marvel and this act shows that they don't give a damn about the fans or their characters.
I'm of the opposite stance. I have great respect for Marvel after this choice, and I think the act shows they care alot about telling good stories and evolving the characters. Other than the worry about Aunt May and Mary Jane, there was really nothing keeping Peter from revealing who he was.

[Kevinroc]

Ohh yeah...Gwen banging Norman Osborn is the hieght of that understanding I'm sure. ;)

You don't want to open up that discussion again, do you?

But suffice it to say. How is Gwen Spider-Man? How is Norman Spider-Man? Oh, they aren't Spider-Man? Then end of that discussion.



Peter also understood at one time that his family faced a risk anytime he un-masked and his identity came out. That the moment his ID was exposed they ran a greater risk because all the evil , bad guys he had fought over the years as Spiderman would blame those closest to him.

That took more responsibility being a person who knows it could get easier , the press and police could look the other way more if he unmasked , but the risk was there. I always loved that part of him.

So you must have missed Amazing #532 where his aunt and his wife tell him it is okay to come forward. It's all right there.


He's a coward for not taking the stance he once believed so much in. I'm sorry , this may seem a more responsible action to go along with the Government and unmask and all. That he's doing it for his family , but he used to know his family ran a risk if he did unmask .

That seemingly is out the window anymore at Marvel. :(

Did you miss Amazing #532? Even until the moment he got on the plane to meet Tony, Peter didn't want to do it. But Aunt May convinced him to come forward.

May: Ben, and then you, always said, "with great power comes great responsibility." And responsibility means you don't run away when someone asks, "who did that?"

[SUPERECWFAN1]

uh uh. Sure. Omg, a new issue featuring the goblin!! I must buy three comics. I am so sick of these empty threats by people who give themselves too much importance. "WoooiN! Marvel is writing a story I don't like! I will never buy any title with that character ever again!! WOOOOIN!! It's not fair!!! I've been a fan for 12 years. I own these characters. They are made to obey my will!!!"

I paid for the books its my business ! I supported them. Maybe if ya look back and stop thinking " He's such a d-ck how dare him drop those books !!" I can and will. So


Honestly people, get over it. You think you not buying an issue is going to make the slightest difference, that millions of spider-fans won't keep buying multiple copies?!


I'm sorry. My dropping ASM as my final Spiderman title made you think millions were. My god....what the hells wrong with you ?

[Jake V]

Ohh yeah...Gwen banging Norman Osborn is the hieght of that understanding I'm sure. ;)
Gwen Stacy is Spider-Man? Why don't you try having a point that makes sense?

Peter also understood at one time that his family faced a risk anytime he un-masked and his identity came out. That the moment his ID was exposed they ran a greater risk because all the evil , bad guys he had fought over the years as Spiderman would blame those closest to him.
Wow, and I suppose that never happened before. And I guess living in the same place as the Sentry won't factor into the equation at all.

That took more responsibility being a person who knows it could get easier , the press and police could look the other way more if he unmasked , but the risk was there. I always loved that part of him.
It would get easier? Weren't you just trying to say how awful life would be for him witout keeping the secret?

He's a coward for not taking the stance he once believed so much in. I'm sorry , this may seem a more responsible action to go along with the Government and unmask and all. That he's doing it for his family , but he used to know his family ran a risk if he did unmask .
It's cowardly to change your mind? He's still aware of the risk he takes. He wouldn't be taking the risk if his family didn't encourage him. Sometimes the right thing to do carries risks.

[matrix]

Based on the major MARVEL comics in the last few years they do lack imagination
:p they sell in the top ten list of comics don't they ;)

[Fatguy]

This is so odd...how can anybody think because his identity is revealed there are no more stories? Its not as if Spider-Man would be the first, or even the 100th hero to have a known identity. If anything, this can add to the stories about Just Peter Parker.

The mask isnt everything.

I think this is interesting, and I cant wait to see what happens next! Spidey could use a good kick in the pants that doesnt involve walking old cast members out of their graves.

[Beast]

Don't underestimate the power of a pissed off fan base.
The pissed off fanbase didn't stop him from getting married.

Doubt they're going to be much of an influence here either.

The so-called "pissed off fanbase" is really only the loud vocal minority.

[Exo]

Based on the major MARVEl comic in the last few years they do lack imgination

Gwen banging Norman, though it was badly written, was very imaginative IMO. We also have House of M, New Avengers, The Winter Soldier, The Murdock Papers, Marvel Zombies hell the list goes on and on.

[protege]

Say it ain't so!!! Spidey sold out! Spidey sold out!
Why was he wearing his old costume? Haven't people seen him in his new threads by now? And if this underground movement that rescued the Young Avengers is Cap's new team, it looks mighty interesting.

[Jake V]

No offence but after today, i lost all respect for marvel and this act shows that they don't give a damn about the fans or their characters.
Well, given how a lot of fans seem to act, I can't blame Marvel for not giving a damn about the fans.

The characters? I wasn't aware that "giving a damn" about the characters meant keeping them in hermetically sealed containers, lacking the ability to take risks or evolve or change? Giving a damn about Spider-Man means keeping him exactly like he was in the 60's? Man, I hope not.

[Beast]

Gwen banging Norman, though it was badly written, was very imaginative IMO. We also have House of M, New Avengers, The Winter Soldier, The Murdock Papers, Marvel Zombies hell the list goes on and on.
Exactly. Everyone's going to deliver a bad story on occassion.

Just because Sins Past was a bad idea, doesn't mean everything since has been.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

You don't want to open up that discussion again, do you?

But suffice it to say. How is Gwen Spider-Man? How is Norman Spider-Man? Oh, they aren't Spider-Man? Then end of that discussion.

No...I won't open that discussion up again since its 2 years old. More or less it was a joke....

So you must have missed Amazing #532 where his aunt and his wife tell him it is okay to come forward. It's all right there.

I know , I just felt he wouldn't do it. That he would stop. I sadly felt he would have a revelation happen and he wouldn't un-mask.


Did you miss Amazing #532? Even until the moment he got on the plane to meet Tony, Peter didn't want to do it. But Aunt May convinced him to come forward.

May: Ben, and then you, always said, "with great power comes great responsibility." And responsibility means you don't run away when someone asks, "who did that?"

I know...I have the issue in my hands. See this is why I like debating this. We won't agree and I know some think its cool. But its something I just can't see.

I'm sorry KevinRoc. I can't see Peter doing this. I'll come back to ASM if and when a change happens. I've had it the longest and all. ( since the Clone Saga)

I didn't wanna give up on it. Even though I loved the new costume as a guilty pleasure.

[protege]

The pissed off fanbase didn't stop him from getting married.

Doubt they're going to be much of an influence here either.

The so-called "pissed off fanbase" is really only the loud vocal minority.
Apparently- I've only seen comments from people who don't want pete and MJ broken up. How many people were against them marrying in the first place?

[Beast]

Why was he wearing his old costume? Haven't people seen him in his new threads by now? And if this underground movement that rescued the Young Avengers is Cap's new team, it looks mighty interesting.
He was wearing his old costume because Aunt May stayed up all night sewing it for him for the Press Confrence, as seen in Amazing Spider-Man #532. :)

[Exo]

The point still stands: Marvel has more than a hand full of talented writers. I can't see this going downhill anytime soon.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Now don't get me wrong..I love current Marvel titles like Daredevil , X-Men , and enjoyed Captain America ( Winter Soldier). I loved those stories. In fact , if not for a budget reasons I'd still have it on my pulllist.

It just irked me...since I came into the Marvel Universe thru Spidey. And that his charactor to me is the one I stuck by...for years.

[Effect]

Also majority of the public knows Spider-man in the red and blue. Not to mention, if he's going to unmask why not do it in a suit your aunt (who has basiclly being his mother with raising him and all) stayed up over night making for him.

[Beast]

Apparently- I've only seen comments from people who don't want pete and MJ broken up. How many people were against them marrying in the first place?
It was pretty much the same reaction as we're getting now with the unmasking. That by tieing him down permanently to Mary Jane, that they couldn't tell good stories with the character and that there was nowhere to go. Basically the same comments Quesada has been stating lately regarding the need to find a way to end the marriage without hurting the character.

[Exo]

It just irked me...since I came into the Marvel Universe thru Spidey.

Welcome to the club. ;)

But you seem to lack faith, when it comes to change, for someone who has been reading comics for the past 12 years.

[Conn Seanery]

Besides that...what else can you see. I know after Aunt May found out , she had one good run in with JJJ. Then faded to the background.
Aunt May isn't the star of the book, and it's not like her "my nephew is Spider-Man" subplot ever ran out, it just dropped into the background of the book. Hell, it was just used again in this very issue.

Look, I just rattled off 6 different possibilities off the top of my head, each with a plethora of people those areas could cover. If you can't even envision one single human interest story about some normal person who's thrilled/upset/whatever about discovering Peter Parker is Spider-Man that would interest you, then maybe it is best that you're moving on.

[BeastieRunner]

I really do like Mark Millar's writing but I don't like the way Civil War is being handled. I've been reading comics since I was 15, right about the time Spider-man came out. He has always been my favorite character but lately writers have been really ruining his "character". Change is fine by me and good but changes that are totally against his ethos are what writers call "bad characterization". Peter has always been about "great power comes responsibility" but revealing his ID to the public is the exact opposite of that.

Now we will most likely see MJ die due to some Joe Q./Mark Millar amalgamation of Green Goblin and Venom, with the character of Peter Parker existing no more.

Marvel should take notes of thier competition: fans didn't like Batman being the main focus of the comics and Bruce Wayne taking a back seat (among other things). With the recent Crisis, they put him and many other heroes back to status quo. This caused many casual DC fans and new readers to drop DC titles due to confusion. If Marvel is going to fix this, it better not be some Superboy-Prime style retcon but with some thought and story in a way that doesn't offend or alienate the readership.

With that said, Spider-man will more than likely (and perhaps other heroes as well) do the same thing: turn off new readers or casual readers. I don't know if many people realize this but die-hards can keep a series going for a short period of time (case in point: the Thing which is really good) but it's the general public, new readers, and casual fans who make the money for the company, thus keeping a series active for a long period of time. A change such as this is not something benificial to a character who represents the everyman, the geek who wants to fit in, and so on. What made Spider-man, Spider-man was not his spider powers but the fact people could identify with him via Peter Parker (not making rent, being late for work, etc.).

"Killing" his alter ego takes away what makes this character interesting and popular. Counter-intuitive changes to just keep a series going, "shocking" the public, and alienating the fans don't make sells. Writing interesting and thought provoking stories do. Nobody right now at Marvel writing most of thier mainstream titles will ever be a Stan Lee, Todd McFarlane, Alan Moore, Frank Miller, Neil Gaiman, Jack Kirby, John Buscema, Steve Ditko, or any other comic legend because instead of making new characters to do new things with, they use existing ones and come up with a different way for them to act and react. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel, do something different by making someone different.

A great example of a crossover done correctly in the recent years is Annihilation. Save costume updates, they make changes by natural character progression like what they did with Silver Surfer (spoiler: e.g. Silver Surfer teaming with Galactus to stop the Annihilation wave because he Surfer lacks the will to use his power to his full potentional. In the glory days of the Sentinel of the Spaceways , he had the will to use his powers to the full but lost it by becoming shocked at how humanity lacked the ability to change or how humanity seemed to attack in fear all too often end). They don't offend the reader or the fan base by making shocking, non-sensical plots or changes. The writing and editing team of this event makes shocking and jaw dropping swerves IN CHARACTER! It makes sense afterwards why they did it given the history and general knowledge of the character, but it makes everyone go, "Hell yeah!" not "Hell no!" Whereas the mainstream events lately are just writers taking thier own take on characters, instead of making new characters to use thier vision on. It's a great waste of thier talents and the history of the characters.

Change is fine by me, but it better make sense. Spider-man's reveal has dumbed this character down and out of this fans favorite list.

Edit: I will most likely have to sit and stew on this some more. At least they got the readership thinking. And re-read. :)

[Ravenheart]

Spidey unmasking could be the greatest thing to happen to comics or it could be the worst.We won't know for awhile.When I first saw it,my initial reaction was shock and a little bit of anger because I was hoping he wouldn't do it.After thinking about it for awhile and re-reading ASM#532 and Civil War#2,I'm warming up to the idea a little more.The one thing I'm really looking forward to is seeing more of JJJ's reaction :D

[Exo]

Now we will most likely see MJ die due to some Joe Q./Mark Millar amalgamation of Green Goblin and Venom, with the character of Peter Parker existing no more.

MJ won't die. Joe Qs words, not mine.

[bigman45]

telling the world who spiderman is . is some bad "mojo mon":eek:

why even do that i would have been cool if mj got raped and then died . and spiderman had to wach it all happen . now that would have been cool .. but dc all ready did that story .. so i guess the MU has nothing left but to do this ..

shame .. = bad "mojo mon" :eek:

[Beast]

Hell, I'd love to see an issue centered around the public reaction to this. Aunt May and Mary Jane getting gushing fan letters over this. Aunt May on a date with Jarvis and a bunch of old flames coming out of the woodwork who want Aunt May because her Nephew is Spider-Man. Just so many possibilities to have fun with the whole concept. Even better, it makes Aunt May and Mary Jane central characters to Peter Parker and Spider-Man. They don't have to hide their feelings and opinions of Spider-Man to protect his secret anymore. Hell, it almost makes me want to start reading 616 Spider-Man. :)

[algertman]

MJ won't die. Joe Qs words, not mine.


JoeQ's word don't mean squat. He's a known liar

[Jake V]

JoeQ's word don't mean squat. He's a known liar
really? You seem pretty eager to believe that he wants to break up Spidey's marriage.

[Ravenheart]

Hell, I'd love to see an issue centered around the public reaction to this. Aunt May and Mary Jane getting gushing fan letters over this. Aunt May on a date with Jarvis and a bunch of old flames coming out of the woodwork who want Aunt May because her Nephew is Spider-Man. Just so many possibilities to have fun with the whole concept. Even better, it makes Aunt May and Mary Jane central characters to Peter Parker and Spider-Man. They don't have to hide their feelings and opinions of Spider-Man to protect his secret anymore. Hell, it almost makes me want to start reading 616 Spider-Man. :)


That would be cool wouldn't it.I wouldn't mind seeing an issue like that too.

[Exo]

JoeQ's word don't mean squat. He's a known liar

You have a reason to believe they'll kill her?

[Beast]

JoeQ's word don't mean squat. He's a known liar
No, he's a known pitchman.

[Red Lotus]

The crux of this Spidey development as the mainstream understands it is pretty simple yet wonderfully complicated. The Government says that heroes either come forward or will be arrested. Spidey chooses to come forward.



That’s not really what happen. He could have easily registered and not came out to the public. I can understand that his family and Stark(who wanted the pro side to have a face) wanted him to be an example for other heroes and because of this manipulation he went public. I know it was manipulation but it was pretty close.


I never understood the Cable/Deadpool pairing. How actually did it work? Where they partners, hunting each other, etc?


I read like three issue of the book and one of the was the first. But the other two had Cable pulling Deadpool string and sending him off on missions.


I do think unmasking Spider-man can bring great stories. Spider-man will have great stories with JJJ with Flash. But then at the same time him going on the run to protect his family could have had great stories.

My main problem with this is that from now on Peter is always Spider-man and they can't do any stories with out people knowing he is Spider-man. Joe wants Spider-man to be more like the Stan Lee Spider-man. The hard luck guy.

You can't give Peter a real life anymore and that what has been missing in Spider-man for the past few years and now its gone for good (untill the retcon).

I do have one question. How many people here think this will be retcon?

I dont mean think it should be. I mean think it will.

I do even if I think they shouldn't.

[Haunt]

it's kind of funny how nearly all of the black heroes wound up on Cap's side. things are really picking up. i predicted Nick Fury's involvement in all of this. i'm glad that he hasn't been forgotten. and this issue showed both sides to have good points; with SHIELD being the third unsupervised side.

[philly]

Gwen Stacy is Spider-Man? Why don't you try having a point that makes sense?


Wow, and I suppose that never happened before. And I guess living in the same place as the Sentry won't factor into the equation at all.


It would get easier? Weren't you just trying to say how awful life would be for him witout keeping the secret?


It's cowardly to change your mind? He's still aware of the risk he takes. He wouldn't be taking the risk if his family didn't encourage him. Sometimes the right thing to do carries risks.

There is a huge difference between being brave and being stupid and what Peter did was stupid and that stupidity is driving from very bad decision making from a editor in chief who does not think about the ramifications of his actions that will be felt down the line. Marvel does sell more comics than DC and other companies but sales don't equal quality and being a marvel fan for almost twenty five years, i had huge hopes for the Civil War series but after today, i now understand why some people feel that long times fans are getting the shaft by this company.

[Exo]

There is a huge difference between being brave and being stupid and what Peter did was stupid

Care to explain why?

[Ivan Isaacs]

Like the first issue this one was also a winner for me. I loved every page. Just such a good read and full of Event Vibe (unlike "House of Meh").
The last pages with Jameson - awesome. The attack against the Young Avenegrs - cool.
Guest appearances by Tigra, Cloak and Dagger - hell yes! Gimme more!

And I can't tell enought times how much I love that slick and nifty book design.

And the demasked Spider-Man: Great idea. Now that's a possibility for new and fresh stories instead of same old, same old just writing for pissed off fanboys. First the cool new costume, now this. Spider-Man is set to be interesting again.

[Jake V]

Care to explain why?
Of course not! Throwing out opinions as facts and not backing them up is so much more fun!

[Effect]

Just thought of something. You know how people are saying that Peter will have to Spider-man 24/7 now. Isn't he already Spider-man 24/7? How many times over the years has he been late for something or run off somewhere to help save someone or help out in a situation when he's doing things as Peter Parker?

Hasn't he always put his "normal" life on hold to become Spider-man? If he was trying to maintain a sense of normal life wouldn't he set a time to be Spider-man instead of just disappearing at times ala Superman?

At least this way if he has to leave, people know he's going to save someone, etc. He can openly save a person direction in front of him without having to put the suit on, wasting time. Just a thought.

What I'm afraid is going to happen is that he's going to be accepted by the public only to go to the anti-side and have them all turn on him as a result. I think more people should be worried about that. What is going to happen when he leaves the Pro side? How ugly do you think the situation is going to get?

For it to get ugly and it most certainly will I think, most likely him unmasking is going to have a very positive results for him and with the general public.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Welcome to the club. ;)

But you seem to lack faith, when it comes to change, for someone who has been reading comics for the past 12 years.

Its not lacking faith. I know Miller's a fantastic writer as is David. Both men are pros . I wish them luck with it.

As I said on the other board I came to Marvel thru the Amazing Spiderman comic in the early to mid 90's. But I saw Spiderman and he was so damn cool. I admit , I really indentified with a guy who could barely make rent and had the world against him.

The Clone Saga started soon after and I was a huge fan. I was up to 4 Spidey books a month. I latched on to other charactors as well like tyhe X-Men and Daredevil over time.

But Spidey always held a special place in my heart. He was my favorite Marvel charactor next to the insane Deadpool. I stuck by the charactor thru some pretty damn bad periods. Like " Chapter 1 and the 98/99 relaunch with Mackie " . I stayed there as a fan.

Sadly...I guess I lost my faith with this. :(

[Devil May Care]

Spidey in the spotlight was definitely a shock. I usually don't buy into the "Changes Will Be Made" hype that accompanies every mega-event crossover, but it's tough to argue that it didn't actually happen this time.

No turning back now.

[Exo]

Of course not! Throwing out opinions as facts and not backing them up is so much more fun!

I think I already know, if past arguments against Spiderman revealing his true identity are any indication. But face it, if you've been reading Marvel Knights Spiderman, especially "the last stand arc", then you would know that every major Spiderman villain knows who is behind the mask by now. Plus, Peter is currently residing at Stark Tower which means assaults are very limited against him and his family.

[philly]

Care to explain why?

Because of all the things Peter has going though in his life, he of all people would have been smart enough not to out himself to the public, no matter what kind of pressure he was going though with the public or his friends.

This is all just bad writing.

[Haunt]

i think the demasking could be good for Spiderman; storywise. Characterwise, his life is about to go straight into the toilet. ought to be worth it just for JJ's reaction.

[Red Lotus]

No turning back now.

You're right. I didn't want them to do it, and now I don't want them to go back. The putty cat is out of the bag so you might as well start petting it.

[Exo]

Sadly...I guess I lost my faith with this. :(

How can you be so sure that this will lead to bad stuff? Time will tell but the potential of something good is clearly evident.

[Jake V]

How can you be so sure that this will lead to bad stuff? Time will tell but the potential of something good is clearly evident.
It doesn't matter that there's a potential for good. Different = bad. I thought that would be clear by now.

[Exo]

Because of all the things Peter has going though in his life, he of all people would have been smart enough not to out himself to the public, no matter what kind of pressure he was going though with the public or his friends.

If HoM has proven anything, Peter should have done this years ago. I believe half of the bad things, past and present, in his life occured because of his anonymity.

[Exo]

It doesn't matter that there's a potential for good. Different = bad. I thought that would be clear by now.

That's just the hardcore fans talking and it is understandable. I have no doubt things will turn back to the way it were before Civil War (as always) but everyone should try to enjoy the ride.

[Red Lotus]

I have no doubt things will turn back to the way it were before Civil War (as always) but everyone should try to enjoy the ride.


If they did this and said hey this is how its going to be from now on then thats ok. But if they did this and said hey we are going to undo it so lets unmask him and then worry about how to fix it later. Then to me this was a waste of time.

[Exo]

If they did this and said hey this is how its going to be from now on then thats ok. But if they did this and said hey we are going to undo it so lets unmask him and then worry about how to fix it later. Then to me this was a waste of time.

I didn't say right away but maybe five years from now. It has happend before. Clone saga and Onslaught are such examples right?

[Jack]

Don't know if anyone else mentioned this, but Thunderbolts #103 has a tiny bit more of the press conference.

"Mr. Parker-- Can you tell us why you decided--"
"--battle with Dr. Octopus years ago that took the life of Police Captain--"
"--married to supermodel and actress Mary Jane Watson--"

Boy I'm glad I read CW #2 first..

[Kevinroc]

I know , I just felt he wouldn't do it. That he would stop. I sadly felt he would have a revelation happen and he wouldn't un-mask.

In other words, you didn't think Marvel had the balls to go in this direction.

I know...I have the issue in my hands. See this is why I like debating this. We won't agree and I know some think its cool. But its something I just can't see.

I'm sorry KevinRoc. I can't see Peter doing this. I'll come back to ASM if and when a change happens. I've had it the longest and all. ( since the Clone Saga)

I didn't wanna give up on it. Even though I loved the new costume as a guilty pleasure.

I think you're clearly overreacting based on part 2 of a story. It takes guts to actually make this kind of move. And the story has actually done a more than decent job of putting these things forward. I'm curious as to where the direction of this story is going and it's a shame that you don't believe that Marvel can't tell an interesting story out of this situation.

[Kevinroc]

Don't know if anyone else mentioned this, but Thunderbolts #103 has a tiny bit more of the press conference.

"Mr. Parker-- Can you tell us why you decided--"
"--battle with Dr. Octopus years ago that took the life of Police Captain--"
"--married to supermodel and actress Mary Jane Watson--"

Boy I'm glad I read CW #2 first..

Ah, Thunderbolts. It accidently spoiled this issue. The next issue of Amazing should definitely have the press-conference stuff.

Man, the press on Marvel Earth is very fast. They already know who this guy actually is as opposed to just having a name and having to look up his history.

[Hiromi]

I was pretty sure the unmasking was going to happen, and I still got excited when they did it. Especially when I saw that JJJ had his complete undivided attention on it, and his reaction afterwards. I love it when a comic manages to do that to me. Only wish it were longer.

[Red Lotus]

Ah, Thunderbolts. It accidently spoiled this issue. The next issue of Amazing should definitely have the press-conference stuff.

Man, the press on Marvel Earth is very fast. They already know who this guy actually is as opposed to just having a name and having to look up his history.


I dont know but I thought maybe Tony had a press pack that after Spider-man said who he was went out to the media.

[SincereAgape]

I see this step as a great sacrifice. As we all know, Spidey has the most to lose if he was the one to demask. We all make sacrifices in life. But what is a true sacrifice? For some it is easy to be generous with their money in terms of charity or lending money to friends. Others might find it hard to spend time with friends and keep in contact with people they haven't seen in a long time. For example it might be easy for you to introduce yourself to new people, making them feel welcome and staring conversations (Not always easy to do), your friend on the meanwhile might be shy and reserved, thus making it harder for them to do this. But for them, since it's very hard for them to do - it is a great sacrifice.

Spidey demasking - is a great step towards what Iron Man says in the beginning of the issue. "That is the sound of people trusting superheros again." He's the first one to risk it after the pro-registration act was put into affect and it for Spidey it was the hardest thing for him to do. I like to think that despite what happened in ASM 532, Spidey is doing this for the benefit of everyone other than himself.

[moebius]

I didn't say right away but maybe five years from now. It has happend before. Clone saga and Onslaught are such examples right?

Actually, Onslaught was never retconned. He was destroyed and Prof X. was sent to jail. Everyone knows it happened, even if it hasn't severely affected X-Men continuity.

[moebius]

Oh, and awesome issue by the way. Everything House of M wasn't.

Edit: This was my 666 Post of the Beast. Very proud.

[EZMOHR]

I think this is an innovative idea. Note I did not say an exciting idea...it's an idea that is worth exploring. I will join the ride to see what goes on. But, I'm afraid I see a string of the same things that happened to Peter in the late 70's/early 80's.....Their gonna tell the same Peter is down on his luck stories, w/o a job and homeless, and washed out....but instead of his Spider-Man alter ego the reason for this...it will be is revealed secret identity as the reason. I think it will be neat to see that no matter what...Peter is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

[spidervenom]

I am glad he unveiled himself to the puplic and I think this could change spideys life alot as long as they dont kill mj of may or maybe it will go straight down hill

like sins past,the other, the clone saga, but I am worried it go go great like ummm uhh :confused: ok come back to me later

[Jamescush]

I didn't think I was going to enjoy CW. If I want some political spew I'll turn on CNN, but Millar is making this an enjoyable ride. With out the 'So and so is wrong and EVIL!!!'
Too bad FrontLine didn't. (That one I dropped after the first issue.)


I haven't had this much fun with a Millar book since his classic Swamp Thing storyline.:cool:

[SincereAgape]

I'm pretty sure the Marvel Roundtable knows what they are doing with the end of Civil War #2. I'm glad this wasn't just some money making scheme or something they just put out their to sell comic books. So far Spidey unmasking has been done right.

[Clint Barton]

Cap,Cable,Goliath,Hercules,Cloak & Dagger,Luke Cage,Daredevil,Young Avengers,2 women (one blonde in a labcoat and one black haired) I couldn't ID

It sure does LOOK like (Black) Goliath and if it IS him at the safe house, then there's been a MAJOR editorial mistake. (Black) Goliath was on the PRO side according to the cover of my issue of Frontline.......

[Kevinroc]

It sure does LOOK like (Black) Goliath and if it IS him at the safe house, then there's been a MAJOR editorial mistake. (Black) Goliath was on the PRO side according to the cover of my issue of Frontline.......

Cover (art appearance) does not reflect the actual content inside the comics these days. Marvel prefers striking cover images.

[Nevets F]

With as great as #1 was, I was really afraid #2 would drop in quality, but wow....it surpassed #1....this, so far, has been AMAZING. As have the tie-ins. Marvel is doing a great job here.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

In other words, you didn't think Marvel had the balls to go in this direction.

I thought we'd see a swerve. A curve thrown where Peter would stop and decide....he couldn't. I never really saw him exposing his ID to everyone.


I think you're clearly overreacting based on part 2 of a story. It takes guts to actually make this kind of move. And the story has actually done a more than decent job of putting these things forward. I'm curious as to where the direction of this story is going and it's a shame that you don't believe that Marvel can't tell an interesting story out of this situation.

Part of me feels theres really not much after you do the intial shock stories. Like seeing JJJ's reaction and all. But after the shock wears off , where do you go from here ? Because ya can't put Peter back around a Highschool setting as a teacher for this .

I wish Marvel luck with it. But its something I just don't see.

[Haunt]

It sure does LOOK like (Black) Goliath and if it IS him at the safe house, then there's been a MAJOR editorial mistake. (Black) Goliath was on the PRO side according to the cover of my issue of Frontline.......

the filthy cheating cover lied to you. it was Foster. and i think one of those women was Jessica Jones, since Luke was there.

[Kevinroc]

I thought we'd see a swerve. A curve thrown where Peter would stop and decide....he couldn't. I never really saw him exposing his ID to everyone.

Isn't that why they did it? Because having him expose his ID is the twist?

Part of me feels theres really not much after you do the intial shock stories. Like seeing JJJ's reaction and all. But after the shock wears off , where do you go from here ? Because ya can't put Peter back around a Highschool setting as a teacher for this .

I wish Marvel luck with it. But its something I just don't see.

It'll be around for a bit and then Marvel will give Spidey his secret ID back. It's all very methodical. As long as we don't get an "out" as silly as someone punching a wall and magically changing history. ;)

[Will.S]

how many people actually didnt know the secret Id anyway?? After Aunt May and MJ and all his freaking friends and other heros...as well as vilians like the Greengoblin, Jackal and Venom among others knowing it the only one truly schocked is JJJ !
This is exactly what I was going to bring up and it's already been reiterated several times by other people here.

Look folks, Spider-Man's most dangerous enemies (Green Goblin and Venom) already know his identity. Also remember that in Millar's Marvel Knights Spider-Man run Aunt May was captured and put in danger as well as MJ freaking out and this was WITHOUT revealing the identity. Plus having Aunt May and MJ arrested for being irresponsible towards the law I think is worse because the consequences are worse. At least now Tony and the superheroes backing him up can protect him on top of his powers as they also have during Millar's run. The status quo is forever changed for Spidey and like Beast and Conn Seanery put it, it opens up a slew of new types of stories with Spidey now being legit.

Anyway, while I wished that the issue was double sized since I wanted to see alot more of the facinating stuff, the issue was really tightly paced and had a really fantastic stealth and rescue mission on behalf of the Cap team. I was surprised at how much of a presence the Young Avengers have already too but they fit too perfectly with the registration criteria for them not to be involved.

I can see now what Millar meant when he said he wanted to evolve the whole superhero identity thing, especially with the anti-registration side adopting new identities and having their own secret base to work out of with the aid of Nick since he's also underground(great way to use him btw). Also the way the superheroes like Iron Man and crew were more publicly embraced was very cool because the public trusts their legitimate status and kinda feels almost DC'ish, another score was when Tony got the heartbroken mother's support on top of that so that was a great PR move on his behalf. And lets not forget that cool FF moment with Reed getting excited about the scientific aspect of the registration act which wasn't surprising, there's also so the rift between him and Sue which is slowly being seen already.

As always, McNiven really knocks the ball out of the part. Fantastic action sequences and just a very pretty looking book also thanks to Morry Hollowell and Dexter Vines's work giving it a fine polish. Civil War remains an awesome, interesting book and it pains me so much to have to wait for #3 now :(

[ultramandingo]

.....blue bettle gets wacked , cap. atom gets shiped off to wildstorm , speedball dead - now this . bad time to be a ditko guy . what next ? bret rattner gets handed the doc stange flic ?

[ruff]

I believe this will be what brings all together registered and non to fight the threat they will be.

[Young Avenger]

This issue was fantastic. Captain America already establishing his resistance, the pro-reg heroes facing moral dilmila about being pro-reg, the scene the with Young Avengers and Spider-Man unmasking himself. All greatly done.

I had some dufficults getting past page 3. She-Hulk ass was...hmmm...you get the point.

[Clint Barton]

Cover (art appearance) does not reflect the actual content inside the comics these days. Marvel prefers striking cover images.

I know that but I do believe that it was an editorial mistake.

However, after rereading the entire issue of Civil War #2, I will say that this is the most "fresh" Marvel has been in the 37 years I've been reading Marvel Comics.

I just know they'll netcon this entire "EVENT" though.

[Will.S]

I had some dufficults getting past page 3. She-Hulk ass was...hmmm...you get the point.
Heh yea, McNiven did a Frank Cho and he's all the more awesome for it. Man Frank Cho drawing She-Hulk.......*drool*

By the way, was anyone else f**king impressed by Patriot's Matrix style jump from one building to the other glass building? He's gotta have the Cap blood in him judging from YA #11 and what may happen in YA #12.

[Young Avenger]

By the way, was anyone else f**king impressed by Patriot's Matrix style jump from one building to the other glass building? He's gotta have the Cap blood in him judging from YA #11 and what may happen in YA #12.

I was impressive by it. No way a normal human can make a jump that far. He must have some Cap blood in him. What I more impressive (or should I say ridculous) was that S.H.I.E.L.D hunted him down for breaking up a mugging.

[Effect]

I really did like how the crowd was cheering them on. Has that actually been happening recently before this? It feels good to see superheros get that kind of response. Just imagine Spider-man getting that after putting an enemy down and not having to run away from the police and have them actually thank him for his help. I have a funny feeling that would blow his mind to actually get thanked like that in public.

I like how they are showing the postive side of the Pro side. Someone like Ms. Marvle has to be loving it cause this is what she really wanted I believe. To be loved by the public as a superhero.

We need more X-men figures in the story I think. At least one or two. Civil War: X-men can't come soon enough. Would love this take since they would be considered superheros as well I think. I wonder if O.N.E is even letting them go for missions or anthing. Which makes me wonder how Prof. X team is getting off the Earth and how Rogue's team will get away from the Mansion once the new arcs start unless they both leave before the SRA goes live. Just saw the Astonishing team in the X-men scene in this issue.

[Jack]

Heh yea, McNiven did a Frank Cho and he's all the more awesome for it. Man Frank Cho drawing She-Hulk.......*drool*

By the way, was anyone else f**king impressed by Patriot's Matrix style jump from one building to the other glass building? He's gotta have the Cap blood in him judging from YA #11 and what may happen in YA #12.
Would Cap's blood really make him that superhuman? He was shot, made that crazy leap through a window and then had the whole floor he was on blown apart.

Now Sentry's blood..

[Haunt]

Would Cap's blood really make him that superhuman? He was shot, made that crazy leap through a window and then had the whole floor he was on blown apart.

Now Sentry's blood..

would have removed the need to run around on rooftops or flee from gunfire.

[Jake V]

It might explain being bulletproof.

But then, so might a transfusion from his grandfather.

[Drakenred]

He also ODed on MGH a while back, so that may have changed things a bit as well.

[Effect]

The bulletproof thing can just be because of his armor and the shield on his back. Isn't his and Cap's armor scale of some kind?

[Jack]

would have removed the need to run around on rooftops or flee from gunfire.
Well, Sentry's blood might not transfer his full powers.

Cap and Sentry are both super soldiers, and Patriot is likely to be one too, but his powers seem to be stronger than Cap's and weaker than Sentry's.

[Jake V]

The bulletproof thing can just be because of his armor and the shield on his back. Isn't his and Cap's armor scale of some kind?
Not the stuff over his legs.

[Jack]

Not the stuff over his legs.
Yeah, I meant to say that. I thought it was his shield at first, then I noticed that the bullets/whatever also bounced off his legs.

[Sean Whitmore]

So far, the entertainment (shock?) value of the book is just barely winning out over the stupidity of the situation. ("Look, that teenage boy has stopped a mugging! Let us blow up the floor of a building to get to him, because that is the most reasonable response.")

Really, the only problem I have with this series is a personal one. And that's not being able to stop thinking about the future and focus on the present. We know Cap and Tony will be friends again someday. We know Peter's identity will be secret again one day. These are as rock-solid as assumptions can be, in the exact same league as "the sun will rise tomorrow". And if you didn't already know that, than congratulations, how did you enjoy reading your first comic book ever?

Mind you, this isn't a "we-know-it's-not-going-to-last-so-why-should-we-care" complaint. It's more dreading the inevitable story where Cap and Tony shake hands and make up after all of this has gone down, or where Madame Web mindwipes the world of Peter's secret.


SEAN

[Beast]

So far, the entertainment (shock?) value of the book is just barely winning out over the stupidity of the situation. ("Look, that teenage boy has stopped a mugging! Let us blow up the floor of a building to get to him, because that is the most reasonable response.")

Really, the only problem I have with this series is a personal one. And that's not being able to stop thinking about the future and focus on the present. We know Cap and Tony will be friends again someday. We know Peter's identity will be secret again one day. These are as rock-solid as assumptions can be, in the exact same league as "the sun will rise tomorrow". And if you didn't already know that, than congratulations, how did you enjoy reading your first comic book ever?

Mind you, this isn't a "we-know-it's-not-going-to-last-so-why-should-we-care" complaint. It's more dreading the inevitable story where Cap and Tony shake hands and make up after all of this has gone down, or where Madame Web mindwipes the world of Peter's secret.

SEAN
It sounds like a "we-know-it's-not-going-to-last-so-why-should-we-care" complaint.

[Jack]

So far, the entertainment (shock?) value of the book is just barely winning out over the stupidity of the situation. ("Look, that teenage boy has stopped a mugging! Let us blow up the floor of a building to get to him, because that is the most reasonable response.")

Really, the only problem I have with this series is a personal one. And that's not being able to stop thinking about the future and focus on the present. We know Cap and Tony will be friends again someday. We know Peter's identity will be secret again one day. These are as rock-solid as assumptions can be, in the exact same league as "the sun will rise tomorrow". And if you didn't already know that, than congratulations, how did you enjoy reading your first comic book ever?

Mind you, this isn't a "we-know-it's-not-going-to-last-so-why-should-we-care" complaint. It's more dreading the inevitable story where Cap and Tony shake hands and make up after all of this has gone down, or where Madame Web mindwipes the world of Peter's secret.


SEAN
Indeed. Now that they've done it, though, I'm hoping they have the balls to make it last a good while, to get the most of the story potential before it's magically reversed.

[Drakenred]

Will Spiderman ever be able to go back in the closet, Perhaps, but not as Peter Parker.

he will have to have a new Identity.

[Sean Whitmore]

It sounds like a "we-know-it's-not-going-to-last-so-why-should-we-care" complaint.


Well, the difference is subtle, but it's there.


Will Spiderman ever be able to go back in the closet, Perhaps, but not as Peter Parker.

he will have to have a new Identity.


That could make for a fun storyline. When it's over, though, he will of course be Peter again.


SEAN

[PastePotPete]

I was on the fence, but I'm really kind of annoyed with this series now.

The Spiderman identity reveal is fine, I just want them to stick with it for a while, not give it back at the end of the Civil War. Quesada says they make choices that will allow them to tell great stories. Okay. Prove it. I want great public identity Spiderman stories.

If they don't stick with this and tell great stories with it, then it was just a publicity stunt made to distract us from:

1.) SHIELD's comically over-the-top response to Patriot stopping a mugging: Gassing/exploding an entire floor of a high-rise skyscraper.
2.) The curious course of events that led the rest of the Young Avengers to be arrested right nearby, while Patriot is stopping off stopping a mugging.
3.)The fact that the SHIELD soldier who drives the truck is privy to the top secret "42" prison plan AND he blabs about it to a complete stranger (Captain America in disguise.) who just happens to be in the truck with him.
4.) The fact that Cap was telling the Young Avengers that they're not ready to be superheroes in their own book for months, but now feels they're ready to be part of an illegal resistance movement.
5.) The lack of development in that we don't get one scene where Cap tries to talk to his pro-registration friends and rally them to his side. Did that happen in an issue of Amazing Spiderman or something? I don't read that book. And if Marvel's hoping Civil War will make me pick it up, they're not doing a very good job of enticing me.

I really could go on.

Yeah, Superboy Prime punched a wall and it changed the DC Universe. That's a little silly, but at least it was well written.

Mark Millar is the Michael Bay of comic books.

[BizarroBeachHead]

I think the suspension of disbelief is really straining with this story. As Sean Whitmore(and PastePotPete)noted, the Patriot scene was so overdone and hammy it was stewing in pineapple juice, but then again, thats Millar for you.

I don't really care about Spider-man revealing his identity. Unlike some people, I gave up on Spidey a while back. Hopefully this will breathe some new life into Spidey, though I can't help but wonder when Marvel will call "backsies" on it, like everything else done to Spider-man. In all fairness Joe Q has maintained a pretty stoic stance with his decisions regarding Spider-man. Mark Waid proved that you could tell a perfectly good Spidey story without a secret ID in House of M. I'm willing to see where this goes, though I echo alschroeder's sentiments(way back on page 8) regarding secret ID's:

Besides, secret identities serve another function---giving a focus of identification with the reader. I love the FF, but I also loved shy, studious Peter Parker who got out of his repressions as Spidey. Now...

I'm probably the last fan of secret identities left, but...although I'm sure there will be a huge sales jump at first, in the long run, it's ruined the character for me. He'll be a celebrity in BOTH identities. He won't be a nebbish. He can't really be a loser, not in the same way.


All in all, I still enjoyed the issue. Millar's not my favorite, and I often find myself questioning his understanding of the superhero genre, but he knows how to grab attention and entertain in a big way. Also, McNiven continues to be my favorite penciler around.

[Dazzler]

Not a fan of the issue, OR its big big reveal at the end.
i'm just tired of everything remotely super-hero-ey being thrown away for the sake of "WHA--?" moments.
i give it a "bleh."


--Dazz

[Effect]

1.) SHIELD's comically over-the-top response to Patriot stopping a mugging: Gassing/exploding an entire floor of a high-rise skyscraper.
2.) The curious course of events that led the rest of the Young Avengers to be arrested right nearby, while Patriot is stopping off stopping a mugging.
3.)The fact that the SHIELD soldier who drives the truck is privy to the top secret "42" prison plan AND he blabs about it to a complete stranger (Captain America in disguise.) who just happens to be in the truck with him.
4.) The fact that Cap was telling the Young Avengers that they're not ready to be superheroes in their own book for months, but now feels they're ready to be part of an illegal resistance movement.
5.) The lack of development in that we don't get one scene where Cap tries to talk to his pro-registration friends and rally them to his side. Did that happen in an issue of Amazing Spiderman or something? I don't read that book. And if Marvel's hoping Civil War will make me pick it up, they're not doing a very good job of enticing me.


1. That was a bit over the top but we don't know exactly how the chase began. It was simple really. He didn't want to register, he ran when they came. That second he became a fugitive and was resisting arrest. They tried to tranq him to slow him down but it didn't work so took it to the next step. He has superpowers so the next step would be a lot different if he had no powers.

Still it was a great action scene. :)

2. It's very possible he was running toward them but by the time he warned them they were caught. Or they could have raided their hideout while Patriot was somewhere else. That could be why they got them all the way they did. Without a fight. We really don't know what was going on there and I doubt we'll find out until the Civil War: Young Avengers/Runaways crossover, maybe.

3. Cap was undercover but the other Shield guy didn't know who it was and he was talking about a rumor he heard. Rumors of projects get talked around all the time. Someone heres something while guarding a room or hears someone talking in the hallway and they talk to someone else. He doesn't know any details and as far as he knows they all work for Shield. It's not like he's telling a complete stranger. They would all be apart of Shield.

4. I think this feeling changed with the latest Young Avenger issues and #12 which is not out yet I think or maybe it is. Both the Avengers and Young Avengers are fighting together with Cap leading them.

5. I don't think Cap can do that. Think about it, this is something each and every single hero has to decide for themselves. It's their lives and the lives of their families that are on the line. Some will be willing to risk going anti and others won't. For others, trust and acceptance of the public is what they've desired and for others they can care less if they are braned outlaws their feelings against registration is so strong. This is a situation I think you can only present your case to a person and wait for their decision. You can't talk someone into being pro of anti I think. You can't rally people like you traditionally think you would. The law was passed and it's not like it's some super villian working behind the scenes and everything can be undone by taking him or her out or peopel are being brainwash. To get this undone, the government has to undo it. What are they going to do force the government to undo it or go out and fight Shield head on? Captain America is smarter then that.

[Tony Starkz]

Civil War #2-This book was THE BALLS.Simple as that.The suspense,the action,the action,the action,the reveals,the art,everything.Simply,THE BALLS.

Cap's alliance:Cable,Goliath,Hercules,Luke Cage,"DD",Cloak & Dagger,Young Avengers,(anyone know those 2 girls next to Cage?)

Tony's:Yellowjacket,She-Hulk,Doc Samson,Ms Marvel,Tigra,Mr.Fantastic,Spidey,possibly Thing

I don't get Wasp's view however.She seemed against it in #1,but was seen siding with She-Hulk,Hank,and Thing.There is a definite rift forming between Reed and Sue,I don't expect her to stay too long with the Pro-Regs.

Tony's side is looking much more powerful and more colorful.Cap's is definitely a rag-tag team,the underdogs.

Looking forward to this 42 and the eventual first battle.

I loved the Spidey reveal,it was written so well and looked great.I'm not up in arms about it as alot of people are,as long as this has ramifications.

The Balls.

10/10

[StoneGold]

I think the real issue is that it's a loss of a security blanket. Both for Spidey and some of the readers. It's one of those things where now we have no idea where the hell things are going.

[Effect]

I'm wondering if that is Jessica Jones-Cage next to Cage. Would make sense if it was since she's his wife and they have a baby girl so I doubt he'd go underground without her seeing as it's said those that don't register, their families will face criminal charges.

[Brian M.]

Cap scored a major hit w/ Cable on his side. Cable is one bad mother-f!@#er.

[stillanerd]

Just thought I post this from Millarworld:

I had a million big surprises already planned for MCW. There's scenes coming up and twists on characters that will blow you away, I promise, but this one was entirely Joe Q. The idea worked well with the concept and, to be honest, I'd have had him on the other side, but the rationale they had was a good one and so I came up with the TV camera way of doing it. But the blame for this one lies with Joe essentially.

http://forums.millarworld.tv/index.php?showtopic=61084&st=200

So once again, it looks like it was Editoral fiat that trumped the writer.

[Linguini]

This was an amazing issue and most of the storyline has been near flawless combining the right action and dialogue. The only bad thing was revealing spidey's identity which was suicide, but marvel makes their descisions .

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Just thought I post this from Millarworld:



http://forums.millarworld.tv/index.php?showtopic=61084&st=200

So once again, it looks like it was Editoral fiat that trumped the writer.


It didn't shock me. I figured Quesada has his hand in this as usual.

Good luck Mark Miller with the series. I enjoyed the MK Spiderman run he did.

[StoneGold]

Just thought I post this from Millarworld:



http://forums.millarworld.tv/index.php?showtopic=61084&st=200

So once again, it looks like it was Editoral fiat that trumped the writer.
Of course, that's ignoring the fact that the whole thing has basically been plotted as a team effort. Remember, the first draft was for a SHIELD vs. the super heroes mini?

[Effect]

Just thought I post this from Millarworld:



http://forums.millarworld.tv/index.php?showtopic=61084&st=200

So once again, it looks like it was Editoral fiat that trumped the writer.

Don't ignore the fact that he apparent had no problem with the idea and thought it was good. Also note that it was Millar that seemd to decide in the end to have him unmask in front of the cameras.

This was a good issue and the unmasking was well done and made sense and could be a great way to clean up Spidey's image in the MU with the general public.

[Sean Whitmore]

This was an amazing issue and most of the storyline has been near flawless combining the right action and dialogue


"Flawless"?

I liked it too, but "flawless"?

And I thought Millar was the king of exaggeration.


SEAN

[Sean Whitmore]

Don't ignore the fact that he apparent had no problme with the idea and thought it was good.


Gotta read between the lines. What would you have him say in public? "Boy, my boss really had a bad idea"?


SEAN

[stillanerd]

Don't ignore the fact that he apparent had no problme with the idea and thought it was good. Also note that it was Millar that seemd to decide in the end to have him unmask in front of the cameras.

This was a good issue and the unmasking was well done and made sense could be a great way to clean up Spidey's image in the MU with the general public.

I'm not ignoring it, Effect (seeing how both you and I also post on Superhero Hype ;) ) But like I said there, Joe Quesada IS the final authority in these matters, although it does sound like Millar is doing a little CYA. And wasn't this is same excuse JMS gave for Sins Past, that it was Joe Q who changed it from Peter being the father of Gwen's mutant twin kids to Norman Osborn?

However, I don't think this will change Spidey's view with the public one way or the other. That's because Spider-Man was more famous or infamous than Peter Parker and just because people know his real name now doesn't necessarily change that--which means, yes, I believe that Aunt May was wrong.

[StoneGold]

I'm not ignoring Effect (seeing how both you and I also post on Superhero Hype ;) ) But like I said there, Joe Quesada IS the final authority in these matters, although it does sound like Millar is doing a little CYA. And wasn't this is same excuse JMS gave for Sins Past, that it was Joe Q who changed it from Peter being the father of Gwen's mutant twin kids to Norman Osborn?
No, I think he said it was whoever the Spidey editor was.


Although really, in the long run, did it matter with that one? Would it have been any better if they were Pete's super-aged kids with Gwen trying to beat the snot out of him?

[stillanerd]

No, I think he said it was whoever the Spidey editor was.
Which I thought was Joe Quesada.

Although really, in the long run, did it matter with that one? Would it have been any better if they were Pete's super-aged kids with Gwen trying to beat the snot out of him?

Touche :) Once that idea was scraped, so should've Sins Past. Hmm, I wonder what will have a more negative response? That story or the "reveal?"

[StoneGold]

Which I thought was Joe Quesada.

No, his job is EIC and CCO. Axel Alonzo was the Spidey editor.


Touche :) Once that idea was scraped, so should've Sins Past. Hmm, I wonder what will have a more negative response? That story or the "reveal?"
The real difference is, there's an actual chance that something good could come out of the reveal. I mean, it might not, but it might. We're in real unchartered waters here with Spidey.


But hey, it's not like they haven't done stupid things with him before. Look, I realize you consider the options a little wonky, but would you rather have the reveal, or would you rather have Spidey become The Spider again?

[mistervader]

I really did like how the crowd was cheering them on. Has that actually been happening recently before this? It feels good to see superheros get that kind of response. Just imagine Spider-man getting that after putting an enemy down and not having to run away from the police and have them actually thank him for his help. I have a funny feeling that would blow his mind to actually get thanked like that in public.

I like how they are showing the postive side of the Pro side. Someone like Ms. Marvle has to be loving it cause this is what she really wanted I believe. To be loved by the public as a superhero.

We need more X-men figures in the story I think. At least one or two. Civil War: X-men can't come soon enough. Would love this take since they would be considered superheros as well I think. I wonder if O.N.E is even letting them go for missions or anthing. Which makes me wonder how Prof. X team is getting off the Earth and how Rogue's team will get away from the Mansion once the new arcs start unless they both leave before the SRA goes live. Just saw the Astonishing team in the X-men scene in this issue.

'It throws me back to the JLA/Avengers crossover, where the heroes in DC were being revered while they were being reviled in Marvel. While Busiek was kinda painting in broad strokes in the crossover, the change of status quo in Marvel right now, of them having acclaim, kind of makes me feel like an unconscious nod is being made.

Also note that Cap was VERY antagonistic of the acclaim in the same crossover, which makes me feel even geekier.

I like the changes, and whether or not they change it back, this event so far is an amazing work in and by itself.

[YinYangDX]

Now that Marvel made Spiderman revealed identity... just hope they dont also use him as the scrapegoat of being the victim of the registration act. Even thougth Joe said that he doesnt want Peter to be a widow... i somehow see it happening...

[XPac]

Now that Marvel made Spiderman revealed identity... just hope they dont also use him as the scrapegoat of being the victim of the registration act. Even thougth Joe said that he doesnt want Peter to be a widow... i somehow see it happening...

Yeah... there has to be consequences here. Worst case scenario has to at LEAST come close to occuring.

Course, even if MJ or Aunt May are killed they'll probably be brought back. That's at least the upside. It wouldn't be the first time Aunt May died.

[StoneGold]

It wouldn't be the first time Aunt May died.
Or MJ.




Or Peter, come to think of it.

[stillanerd]

No, his job is EIC and CCO. Axel Alonzo was the Spidey editor.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

The real difference is, there's an actual chance that something good could come out of the reveal. I mean, it might not, but it might. We're in real unchartered waters here with Spidey.

Not necessarily. Stan Lee and Steve Ditko did it first:

http://www.samcci.comics.org/spider-man/asm012.jpg

Plus it's happens LOTS OF TIMES as I pointed out here:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=3228500&postcount=22

Plus, remember when the Flash was publicly known as Wally West? Well, about two years later, DC realized they ran the concept into the ground and it may have been a mistake, so they used the Spectre to mindwipe the knowledge from everybody on the planet. Looks like something similar could happen here with Spider-Man, only substitute Spider-Man with the Flash and the Spectre with Doctor Strange, Loki, or Wanda--at least that's the only thing I can see how they could "solve" this.

But hey, it's not like they haven't done stupid things with him before. Look, I realize you consider the options a little wonky, but would you rather have the reveal, or would you rather have Spidey become The Spider again?

Well, when you put it THAT way :p. Anyway, I'm sure the idea of "everyone knows Peter Parker is Spider-Man" can have some interesting stories for maybe, what 5 or 6 months give or take a few issues? But then comes the point where you have to wonder "How far is too far and do we A) have a back-up plan in place, and B)is there anyway we can fix this without looking like a cop-out?"

[Effect]

Why not 5 to 6 years? Isn't the average Spidey arc about 4 to 5 issues anyway? So I can see this going on for quite a few arcs before it's reverse, that is if they do it. I wouldn't be upset if they did but would like to see them run with it for a while. Do you honestly think they'd make such a big deal out of it only to put a stop to it 5 or 6 issues later? Doubting that. Civil War is suppose to change the marvel universe of years to come. At least that's what I recall Marvel saying and this is a by product of it. So I say 2 years at the least, not until JMS/JQ's story finishes and that's in 2007 and that could take the whole year so we are looking at the beginning of 2008 or very end of 2007 at the closest I think. I think think it would be that soon though.

[StoneGold]

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.



Not necessarily. Stan Lee and Steve Ditko did it first:

http://www.samcci.comics.org/spider-man/asm012.jpg

Plus it's happens LOTS OF TIMES as I pointed out here:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=3228500&postcount=22

Plus, remember when the Flash was publicly known as Wally West? Well, about two years later, DC realized they ran the concept into the ground and it may have been a mistake, so they used the Spectre to mindwipe the knowledge from everybody on the planet. Looks like something similar could happen here with Spider-Man, only substitute Spider-Man with the Flash and the Spectre with Doctor Strange, Loki, or Wanda--at least that's the only thing I can see how they could "solve" this.



Well, when you put it THAT way :p. Anyway, I'm sure the idea of "everyone knows Peter Parker is Spider-Man" can have some interesting stories for maybe, what 5 or 6 months give or take a few issues? But then comes the point where you have to wonder "How far is too far and do we A) have a back-up plan in place, and B)is there anyway we can fix this without looking like a cop-out?"
OK, not everything you said was exactly true. First, yes, Spidey has been unmasked a bunch of times. But no one ever believed him. This time, they do.


As for the Wally West thing, you've got the time span waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy off. The very first thing Wally did after taking the mantle of the Flash from his uncle was give out his identity, so that people wouldn't forget his uncle. That lasted damn near 20 years. And the Spectre thing, that lasted a story arc. And not too long after, they cancelled the book and killed Wally. The end.

[YinYangDX]

maybe not Wanda or Dr. Strange...

but maybe Madam Web... she did say that Cosmic being have an eye out for Peter, forgot what issue it was in