Opinions Regarding Joe Quesada

[Expletive Deleted]

I accidentally deleted some posts regarding Quesada and DAREDEVIL: FATHER from the Writer/Artist thread while trying to split them off into a separate topic. To make up for it, I figured I'd start a new general Quesada discussion thread.

Just as a pre-emptive warning, all the usual rules are in place. Keep it clean, keep it civil, and so on and so forth.

So.

What do you think of Joe Quesada's work, in his capacities as writer, artist, and editor-in-chief for Marvel Comics?

[agrich]

His art and writing were better before he came to Marvel. I have no interest in books he writes or draws at Marvel, none.

I believe he deserves a good share of the credit for the "edgy" Marvel Knights line and for attracting some of the talent to Marvel that he has, and for that reason I think he's been a pretty good editor-in-chief. I have no more complaints about him than I had about any of his predecessors dating all the way back to Jim Shooter.

[Shellhead]

I don't actually think of Joe Quesada as an artist or writer, because I have seen little of his work except as Editor-in-Chief. As for Quesada the EiC, I admit that sales have rebounded since the slump of the 90's, and Joe has certainly taken some creative risks regarding Marvel's product line.

This is just a matter of personal preference, but I don't like his style. He's not quite as extreme a huckster as Stan Lee, but Quesada seems to delight in tweaking his many critics, instead of winning them over with charm like Stan would have. He puts too much weight on recruiting unreliable Hollywood writers. At the same time, Quesada is downplaying continuity to compensate for missed deadlines and careless editors, when continuity is part of what brings many fans back each month for the latest issues.

After Thing #8, I will be down to buying just one Marvel comic per month (or less often, depending on missed deadlines). The last time I was buying so few Marvel comics was in the early 90's, just before I dropped comics completely for a few years.

I agree with agrich, in that I've been unhappy with every Marvel EiC starting with and including Jim Shooter.

[Jake V]

He draws pretty pictures.

[DDM]

This is just a matter of personal preference, but I don't like his style. He's not quite as extreme a huckster as Stan Lee, but Quesada seems to delight in tweaking his many critics, instead of winning them over with charm like Stan would have. He puts too much weight on recruiting unreliable Hollywood writers. At the same time, Quesada is downplaying continuity to compensate for missed deadlines and careless editors, when continuity is part of what brings many fans back each month for the latest issues.



Besides what Shellhead says, I will add Joe Quesada--as Marvel's Editor-in-Chief--lacks any coherent vision for Marvel Comics. As a result, his editors often make too many important continuity mistakes which see print. Likewise, Quesada's costant "events" are built on sand because he selectively uses certain continuity, but leaves out comprehensive continuity. Quesada also refuses to stick with something. For instance, none of the important X-Men lost their powers on M-day.

[Ryan Day]

Besides what Shellhead says, I will add Joe Quesada--as Marvel's Editor-in-Chief--lacks any coherent vision for Marvel Comics. As a result, his editors often make too many important continuity mistakes which see print.

What does having vision have to to with continuity errors? Perhaps his vision of Marvel Comics simply doesn't rank continuity very highly.

[Ivan Isaacs]

I look at his work from Azrael or Ash and I have to watch out or I'm in danger of starting to drool. Great artist (well except for those bulkies in DD_ Father) and hist cover for Wolverine: Origins make me sigh because that are the only think he can manage these days... covers.

As a writer I think he's okay. Can't really judge it because I read very few written by him and that was co-written by Palmiotti. He sure is no Alan Moore or Frank Miller, but he's no bad writer either.

Now as an editor-in-chief... when he was running the company together with Jemas I was buying every single Marvel comic and loved them all except Captain America V4.
When Jemas was let go I continued to buy everything but some titles started to ack quality, the hype machine began and suddenly we had everything back, which Quesada was against - big summer crossovers (HoM; CW), smaller crossovers (Disassembled, Annihilation and that god-awful Thor/Iron Man/Avengers crossover), the dead-is-dead policy was no longer valid and we had variant covers and gimmick covers back (which are as much needed as the bird flu). I also was pissed when they started retconning the arc of Grant Morrison immidiately after he was off New X-Men. A nice way to treat the creator who put the X-sales through the roof again.
And how they treated Igor Kordey made me very angry. Loyalty doesn't mean much in this business it seems.
That made me a little bit disappointed (as well as the needless comic deaths) and when Kirkman killed Diamondback (who is my favorite non-mutant-female character) I had enough and dropped a whole bunch of titles.
But I also dropped 80% of my DC titles during Infinite CrossoverWeScrewYou Madness.

I also loved that he gave indie creators (Guy Davis, Scott Morse, Brett Weldele) a chance to publish some really good stuff at Marvel.

[Shellhead]

What does having vision have to to with continuity errors? Perhaps his vision of Marvel Comics simply doesn't rank continuity very highly.

Fair enough. But when the issues are only loosely connected to each other, that makes buying each issue more optional. With rising prices, it's more important to get readers primed to buy the next issue, and the next, and the next.

[Ivan Isaacs]

Fair enough. But when the issues are only loosely connected to each other, that makes buying each issue more optional. With rising prices, it's more important to get readers primed to buy the next issue, and the next, and the next.

Well, the best thing is to tell a good story. Then it doesn't matter if a story has 2, 4 or 6 parts (no matter if they are decompressed or not) or is a stand-alone issue.

The thing is many, many people are jumping on any EVENT train and also prefer buying an awful comic which just "happen" to have Spidey or Wolvie in it, instead of buying a superb comic starring only Squirrel Girl and Stingray.

An overused character such as Wolverine has two monthly titles again while fresh stuff such as Runaways is selling much, much worse, despite being a series of high quality.

[Haunt]

he doesn't seem genuine to me. but i'll just hold off and judge him on his results.

[Michael P]

I accidentally deleted some posts regarding Quesada and DAREDEVIL: FATHER from the Writer/Artist thread while trying to split them off into a separate topic.
Deleted... or devoured?

[Expletive Deleted]

Fair enough. But when the issues are only loosely connected to each other, that makes buying each issue more optional.I suppose that's true, but I don't think issue-to-issue continuity is in an especially bad place at the moment. I mean, I can't really think of a current comic without a reasonable degree of internal consistency.

Inter-title, shared universe continuity and long-term, detail oriented continuity, sure. But that's an entirely different issue.Deleted... or devoured?. . . Mistakes were made. That's all I'm saying.

[StoneGold]

As an artist, he draws pretty covers. One of the best. Has a real eye for cover composition. Sadly, his sequential work isn't what it used to be.

[Expletive Deleted]

Oh, and no fat jokes.

[Serik]

I'm a stickler for continuity. I wish it was emphasized more...

[Alistair]

That made me a little bit disappointed (as well as the needless comic deaths) and when Kirkman killed Diamondback (who is my favorite non-mutant-female character)

Did you know that wasn't really Diamondback? The most recent Marvel Team-Up (also by Kirkman) says it was a malfunctioning LMD that thought it was the real Diamondback.

[Huzzah!]

Sorta a bullet point thingie


As editor in chief he is making all of marvel into Marvel Knights, i have a problem with that.

Also he is consolidating as opposed to diversifying. X-men in avengers, spiderman in avengers. As well as writers, bendis and miller on everything

. It seems to get out of the late 90s slump he is simply doing early 90s stuff.

Seems to hire on writers who have little interest in being bridges from old writers to new writers and do constant retcons that chances are will not outlast their runs. Constant flux, no stability.

Constant crossovers also force this issue and writers simply have to respond to other stories rather than make up their own.

[Mister Mets]

His Iron Man run proves he's a good writer.
His Daredevil run proves he's a good artist.

He's been better as an Editor-in-Chief.
The Ultimate Universe.
Grant Morrison's New X-Men
Paul Jenkins Spider-Man
New Avengers
Brubaker's Captain America
Bendis Daredevil
MAX
ICon

And a few dozen other great projects.

I can't think of anyone who'd do a better job.

[StoneGold]

Oh, and no fat jokes.
I'm like Wilt Chamberlain, you have to invent new laws to hold me back.

[StoneGold]

That made me a little bit disappointed (as well as the needless comic deaths) and when Kirkman killed Diamondback (who is my favorite non-mutant-female character)
Diamondback isn't dead. That was an LMD. She showed up afterwards in Cable/Deadpool as a member of B.A.D. Girls.


Course, that does mean that Cap shtupped a robot.

[Dizzy D]

Diamondback isn't dead. That was an LMD. She showed up afterwards in Cable/Deadpool as a member of B.A.D. Girls.


Course, that does mean that Cap shtupped a robot.

He's an Avenger. It's like part of the entrance exam.

[Citizen V]

.................................

People already know what to say,its just a matter of time.

[Kevinroc]

I like that Joe Q. puts himself out there. It's actually quite easy to get ahold of him and ask him things.

His "public persona," which people equate to overhyping projects (which actually does happen), is actually quite good at that. Just look at all the emphasis he put in his Joe Friday columns where he discussed how much he "hated" Speedball and expressed a desire to kill him. In the end, he revealed that he never had any intention of killing Speedball and just expressed that he was having fun with his audience.

As a businessman, Joe Q. has actually sold a number of comics. As much as many people bitch about what has happened, he's actually done a fairly good job of crafting an interest in Marvel.

And hey, the guy was willing to let some Marvel Exclusive creators work on Superman/ Batman #26 (and he even promoted said comic). That's actually a pretty classy move in my book.

As much as it can anger fans, a lot of his arguements actually do make sense. While I like the Spidey/ MJ dynamic, I can see why he hates the marriage.

Not every move he's made has been great. But more often than not, I'd say he's done a fine job.

[Bedlam66]

I loved his Ash Stuff Back in the day and Think His Covers to Origins are some of the best I've ever seen from the man. As Far as What I think about him as EIC of Marvel Well I can't say I agree with all of his opinions, but I can say that Dispite them I think he has Helped Marvel more in the years he's been there then Any other EIC in the last 30 years. Lets face it if it wasn't for Joe Q marvel prob wouldn't be around today the way we know it and we would not have had the great Movies like Spiderman and X-men that have come down the pipe.

[SlapShot!]

i like joe q.

i think he's brought a lot to marvel. i love his art, especially his DD run. I havnt read anything he's written, though. I think he's brought in a lot of talent to Marvel.

all around, i think he's a good editor in chief.

[agrich]

His Iron Man run proves he's a good writer.
His Daredevil run proves he's a good artist.


Well, they don't "prove" it, since I think his art on Daredevil was lousy, unless the Black Widow was supposed to have the features of a 12-year-old girl. I didn't read his Iron Man, but of course that too would be a matter of opinion.

I liked his X-O Manowar way back when, which to me proves he was once a good artist. I don't know if he is anymore; maybe if he were just doing art rather than the whole EIC thing.

[Jack Roberts]

Now as an editor-in-chief... when he was running the company together with Jemas I was buying every single Marvel comic and loved them all except Captain America V4.
When Jemas was let go I continued to buy everything but some titles started to ack quality, the hype machine began and suddenly we had everything back, which Quesada was against - big summer crossovers (HoM; CW), smaller crossovers (Disassembled, Annihilation and that god-awful Thor/Iron Man/Avengers crossover), the dead-is-dead policy was no longer valid and we had variant covers and gimmick covers back (which are as much needed as the bird flu). I also was pissed when they started retconning the arc of Grant Morrison immidiately after he was off New X-Men. A nice way to treat the creator who put the X-sales through the roof again.
And how they treated Igor Kordey made me very angry. Loyalty doesn't mean much in this business it seems.
That made me a little bit disappointed (as well as the needless comic deaths) and when Kirkman killed Diamondback (who is my favorite non-mutant-female character) I had enough and dropped a whole bunch of titles.

Joe did alot of good, but undid alot of that good that he did do :) Of course, he's not the same guy we saw at the turn of the century.

He's got a great sense of fun, though, in my minds eye, Joe's not the best at managing the more business side of things. I do not think structure and organization are friends of his. He's the Mr. Hyde to Jim Shooter's Dr. Jekyll, combine the two and I think you make the 'ultimate' Marvel Editor & Chief.

[darkhawk76]

I'm a bit confused by the "continuity doesn't matter, just tell good stories" argument

it depends on what sort continutiy you're on about.

I don't necessarily want Spider-Man to start spouting in the middle of a battle with Doc Ock "I can't believe you tricked me into thinking we were partners a while back" or "I so glad I stopped you from marrying that nice old lady from Queens". I do think that it would be nice if New York is blown up in X-Men, it's referenced in Spider-Man, Avengers, FF etc

[Ivan Isaacs]

Did you know that wasn't really Diamondback? The most recent Marvel Team-Up (also by Kirkman) says it was a malfunctioning LMD that thought it was the real Diamondback.

Yes, I knew (and I wanted to write ... "killed" Diamondback... to highlight this) as I sticked through that arc hoping that something like a LMD or DontBreakANeck-Glue would show up.
Yeah, I know it is a fictional character and I shouldn't really about comic book characters but, well, something inside of me broke, when I saw her getting "killed".
See, I absolutely hate it, when a character I like gets killed just because he/she is considered good cannon fodder.
I wouldn't mind the Avengers going out in a blaze of glory (to be frankly: If I were to end The Avengers, they WOULD go out in a blaze of glory), but seeing a beloved second-stringer being treated like crap because the writer doesn't like... well, that's what making me pissed.
And with Hawkeye dying at the same time, I thought, that Marvel comic won't appeal to me anymore, because I prefer lighthearted superhero stuff and not that grim and grimmer stuff.
If I want to read cool slice-of-life comics, I pick something up from Oni, Fantagrpahics or Slave Labor Graphics.

But here I am - still buying a crapload of Marvel books. :D

I if I have to choose betwenn Marvel as it is now and the Marvel as it was run into the ground by The Harrasment - I'd choose Quesada's Marvel ANY day.

[The Shadow]

I'm a stickler for continuity. I wish it was emphasized more...
So you would want Ben Grimm and Reed Richards talking about their Nazi fighting days of World War 2? :confused:

[The Shadow]

As editor in chief he is making all of marvel into Marvel Knights, i have a problem with that.
Why? Marvel Knights sells well and is some of the more innovative stuff Marvel has done.

Also he is consolidating as opposed to diversifying. X-men in avengers, spiderman in avengers.

But people then complain there's no consistency or a shared universe feel with the Marvel Universe. Joe's in a no win situation here.

As well as writers, bendis and miller on everything
Other than Ultimate Spidey and New Avengers... what else is Bendis writing? HoM was months ago now.....
And Millar is writing Cival War and...?

I think Joe's done a great job. As someone mentioned earlier Marvel has tried more new things than ever before and while not everything is a success at least they are trying!

[BlackKnight]

Shadow
"Why? Marvel Knights sells well and is some of the more innovative stuff Marvel has done."

Yep it sold so well that it is being phased out, anyone remember that horrible Captain America that was in Marvel Knights, yep it was fantastic.

[Jake V]

Shadow
"Why? Marvel Knights sells well and is some of the more innovative stuff Marvel has done."

Yep it sold so well that it is being phased out, anyone remember that horrible Captain America that was in Marvel Knights, yep it was fantastic.
Hey now. It was pretty goddamn good as long as Cassaday was drawing it.

[algertman]

Worst EiC ever. He's more concerned about making his buddies happy than making good stories. He's lazy as hell.

[The Shadow]

Yep it sold so well that it is being phased out, anyone remember that horrible Captain America that was in Marvel Knights, yep it was fantastic.
Ummm... because (as Joe said) the entire Marvel line has taken the MK philosophy so it wasn't restricted to the imprint but was basically the method of operations for Marvel as a whole.

But I'm sure you knew that :rolleyes: So why keep the imprint when the policies that defined the MK line were company wide anyway?

And I agree with Jake... when Cassaday was drawing Cap it was awesome.

[The Shadow]

Worst EiC ever. He's more concerned about making his buddies happy than making good stories. He's lazy as hell.
:rolleyes:

And yet the sales of comics are on the rise and have been since he became EIC... despite price increases.

How does that make him the worst EIC ever?

Lazy? How do you know his work habits? :rolleyes:
Unless you have his office bugged with cameras and you catch him napping I think I'll chalk this post up to your usual Marvel rants and hyperbole.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I'd wish he'd stop letting himself get wrote into Spiderman. At this point the series should be called " The Amazing Joe Quesada " because it has little to do with Peter Parker as possible. Of course....this is why sales are slipping but as long as Joe is there he'll have big events.


Next month : Peter Parker gets a SEX CHANGE !!

6 Months later : Peter Parker admits to AFFAIRS with GWEN & NORMAN'S LOVE CHILD !!

Joe , please ....and someone who thinks your a decent EIC , stop what your doing to Spiderman. For gods sake...stop. Your pissing all over the charactor . Your events keep ruining it.

[algertman]

:rolleyes:

And yet the sales of comics are on the rise and have been since he became EIC... despite price increases.

How does that make him the worst EIC ever?

Lazy? How do you know his work habits? :rolleyes:
Unless you have his office bugged with cameras and you catch him napping I think I'll chalk this post up to your usual Marvel rants and hyperbole.

Sales increasing? Sure, but at one time time comics could easily sale what the #1 ranked book does every month and not get into the top 25

Lazy? Hell Yes. DD: Father anyone?

and I'll chalk your post up to standard JoeQ. defender responses.

[Expletive Deleted]

Sales increasing? Sure, but at one time time comics could easily sale what the #1 ranked book does every month and not get into the top 25.That time was a decade before Quesada came on board, though.

[algertman]

That time was a decade before Quesada came on board, though.


And? He's so obsessed about turning back the clock (Spidey and MJ) you think he would want to turn back the clock as far as sales go aswell. But apparently not.

[Alan2099]

As for the marvel Knights stuff, it was intended to be a darker more "realistic" take on the comics.

While that's fine for certain books, there are plenty of thers that suffer for that approach, as does the Universe when it limits itself that way.

Essentially wer'e getting back to the 90s again when everything was grim and gritty.

[Expletive Deleted]

And? He's so obsessed about turning back the clock (Spidey and MJ) you think he would want to turn back the clock as far as sales go aswell. But apparently not.. . . one of those is fixed by a phone call or two; the other is fixed by rebuilding an imploded market whose customer base has by-and-large moved on and overcoming a decade of corporate mismanagement and bankruptcy.

Yes, the reason he's not selling millions more comic books each month is that he doesn't want to. I mean, how could I not have noticed that?

[Jake V]

And? He's so obsessed about turning back the clock (Spidey and MJ) you think he would want to turn back the clock as far as sales go aswell. But apparently not.
Is he? Aside from some newsarama interviews that were probably to intentionally mislead fans (remember what he said about Speedball?) I haven't seen any evidence that he is intent on turning back the clock for Spider-Man. Hell, Peter and MJ got back together on Quesada's watch.

[THANOS/WOLVERINE]

:rolleyes:

And yet the sales of comics are on the rise and have been since he became EIC... despite price increases.

How does that make him the worst EIC ever?

Lazy? How do you know his work habits? :rolleyes:
Unless you have his office bugged with cameras and you catch him napping I think I'll chalk this post up to your usual Marvel rants and hyperbole.



Prices increased becuase he put Wolverine in pretty much every title. Wolverine sells books plain and simple.

[StoneGold]

Yep it sold so well that it is being phased out, anyone remember that horrible Captain America that was in Marvel Knights, yep it was fantastic.


First incorrect fact with that statement: Marvel Knights is not being phased out. It's being relaunched as the home of Marvel's high profile, low continuity miniseries by big name creators.

Second incorrect fact with that statement: It had nothing to do with sales, and more to do with the fact that since Joe is the EIC, all of Marvel is basically Marvel Knights. The original editorial concept for the line had become passe.


Not a fact, but a rather slanted opinion: you didn't like one book in the entire Marvel Knights line. I'll be damned, the whole line must have been terrible if Ney Reiber was a lousy writer.

[david r]

Joe Quesada

2000-2004: Good

2005-present: No Good.

[The Shadow]

First incorrect fact with that statement: Marvel Knights is not being phased out. It's being relaunched as the home of Marvel's high profile, low continuity miniseries by big name creators.

Second incorrect fact with that statement: It had nothing to do with sales, and more to do with the fact that since Joe is the EIC, all of Marvel is basically Marvel Knights. The original editorial concept for the line had become passe.


Not a fact, but a rather slanted opinion: you didn't like one book in the entire Marvel Knights line. I'll be damned, the whole line must have been terrible if Ney Reiber was a lousy writer.
Nice post.

[The Shadow]

Prices increased becuase he put Wolverine in pretty much every title. Wolverine sells books plain and simple.
... I don't follow the logic... :confused:

[mattspideyrocks!]

Sales increasing? Sure, but at one time time comics could easily sale what the #1 ranked book does every month and not get into the top 25

Lazy? Hell Yes. DD: Father anyone?

and I'll chalk your post up to standard JoeQ. defender responses.

You are nuts. You really are. I think I'm gonna stick with being a JoeQ defender because at least I'm sitting here enjoying the books I get while you get all bothered by everything that's done. I would love to see some actual proof saying he's lazy and he's only looking to make the guys in his building happy. Those statements make me think you are just looking for anything to complain about but hey, if that's what you are good at, go to it. Keeps me busy so I don't mind.

[BlackKnight]

Ummm... because (as Joe said) the entire Marvel line has taken the MK philosophy so it wasn't restricted to the imprint but was basically the method of operations for Marvel as a whole.

But I'm sure you knew that :rolleyes: So why keep the imprint when the policies that defined the MK line were company wide anyway?

And I agree with Jake... when Cassaday was drawing Cap it was awesome.

When Cassaday was drawing Cap it was ok, because that was all the story was ok, and when Bachelo took over, the whole comic was bad in my opinion.

As for the whole imprint idea, well when the imprint did exist, the only successful comics where Spidey and DD. So, really I don't see how it is a good idea to move it to all of the comics, but hey, I know you love that change for the sake of change stuff. So enjoy it, it will change again, and then you will be in my shoes.

[Expletive Deleted]

As for the whole imprint idea, well when the imprint did exist, the only successful comics where Spidey and DD.Spider-Man wasn't part of Marvel Knights until well after Quesada became EIC.

As for the relative success of the imprint . . . it was partially about the big sellers like PUNISHER, DAREDEVIL and the Loeb/Sale books, but it was also partially about the creative teams that Quesada was able to get and the fact that previous attempts at projects featuring most of the MK stable had ended in abject failure. Even a mild critical success with, say, Black Panther or Inhumans is a victory if those properties had previously been seen as non-viable.So, really I don't see how it is a good idea to move it to all of the comics, but hey, I know you love that change for the sake of change stuff. So enjoy it, it will change again, and then you will be in my shoes.If someone loves change for change's sake, why would they be irritated if things keep changing?

[The Shadow]

when the imprint did exist, the only successful comics where Spidey and DD.
Hmmm... then how do you explain...

THIS!

http://www.thecomicbox.com/online_store/store/images/comicpics/punisher-welcomeback.jpg

Welcome back Frank is an amazing Punisher story... under the MK imprint (look lower right corner). There were plenty of great stories from the imprint.

[The Shadow]

it was also partially about the creative teams that Quesada was able to get and the fact that previous attempts at projects featuring most of the MK stable had ended in abject failure.
Wasn't that among the biggest reasons???