WWE RAW Review: " DX Returns "

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Its taken him a few years. Perhaps one of the best all-around talents in the business since the late 90's , Rob Van Dam finally made it. He shook up the business and won a Title that has long since been kept from him.

But like any great talent , Rob's accent was gonna happen. Be it in a reborn ECW or a TNA. RVD's time was here and he needed it. Now he marches on after an awesome PPV .

ECW is reborn. The PPV again with Heyman behind it , shows he knows what the ECW fanbase will accept. The man is a genuis and now he gets to book the ECW Brand starting tomorrow night at 10pm.

Onto RAW....

The Good: The show opens with....Paul Heyman. He plugs Rob's WWE Title win against John Cena and tells the people that ECW had no rules. That even with Edge getting involved and 2 referees being knocked out , he made the final call.

Rob shows up and spins the spinner and gives that smile. Then says it all " Rob....Van....Dam , WWE Champion ! " They invite Cena and Edge to tomorrow nights ECW show as well.

EXTREME WILL BE REBORN !! ECW tomorrow night at 10pm on the Sci-Fi channel. A new breed unleashed. Ohhh yeahhhh it feels like I'm comin home baby !

In ring we see Kane vs Randy Orton. At least Randy gets a decent reaction here and isn't as razzled as he was last night at ONS. He appeared to really be razzled by those ECW fans in attendance. Tonight he gets a decent lil match against Kane until it gets tossed out after a countout. Kane version 2k6 comes out at the ramp and puts our Kane out as usual.

Vince decides to give a " State of the WWE Address " and he sits at a table ala President Bush. At 1st it seems he's gonna start talking about ECW and the Title situation. Silly me....he's gonna talk about a man kissing his ass !

He goes into silly details like being left ass up and all. Its pretty comical that Vince would spend more time hyping a Spirit Squad handicap match on HHH than launching the ECW brand but this is him.

" Think of the children watching as ya left me ass up ! "

Jim Ross and Lawler play what happened to Eugene during ECW : ONS II . Never has one man looked so f-'n bad ass as the Sandman who comes out like some drunken beast to cane a fool. Eugene backstage tells Hacksaw that he's worried about him facing Umaga.

Hacksaw replies in a manner that makes me wonder if someone hasn't wrapped him across the head with a 2x4. Least Hacksaw's gonna go down fighting I suppose.

Mmm nice wet t-shirt contest by Torrie Wilson and Candance. I loved the Rikishi esque " back that wet ass up " Torrie did. Made me laugh.

Of course they cheapened out on us. Torrie was wearing a bra and I'm guessing Candace did as well. Plus this match really was over a magazine cover . Too bad it wasn't over the whole fued that started before Wrestlemania 22 where Candace jumped Torrie.

HHH gets to take on all 5 members in a Gauntlet style match . Least its not a Main Event as usual. HHH gets a beatdown after a few minutes as 4 of the Spirit Squad work him over. I was thinking HHH's " Thor " powers would kick in sooner or later but the odds are too much.

McMahon calls for Mitch to come out as he gets tossed out. HBK walks out to a huge fantastic pop as he helps HHH clear the ring and DX reforms to no ones suprise. After beatings down the SS , they give the cross-chop to McMahon to " SUCK IT " . Backstage McMahon makes it a handicap match at Vengence with the Micheals/HHH vs Spirit Squad match.

Foley comes out and he looks like he's been ran over. Bad eye , arm banged up and he's moving slow. He sells last nights ECW: ONS II match where he got lit on fire. He's talking as the music hits for Ric Flair.

Now this gets interesting as Flair mocks Foley as a glorified stuntman and claims he shouldn't be taking up for the WWE. That unlike Angle,himself,HHH and Shawn Micheals ; Foley isn't at all like them. That he mostly did big moves. Foley replies that Flair's jealous that his bygone era has passed and he's an old man who newer fans can't remember.

This is getting intense as Flair wants a match as Mick backs off. Mick playing the heel in this is pretty wild. He backs off and dares Ric to a 2/3 Falls , straight up wrestling match at Vengence. Uh oh...this smells bad. Had it been Foley taking Flair to the Extreme then maybe it could pass. But can Mick straight up wrestle 30 minutes ? With his gas tank ?

Trish Stratus is such a babe and now she's gettin her due. I loved watching her do the Canadian Walk of Fame. Later Mickie James does an interview where they run down the Diva injuries. Ladies if your thinking of a WWE Diva , beware. Because girls are going down faster than the WWE can keep em on the active roster !

Orton shows up soon after and wants a rematch against Angle on his terms. Where he won't get rattled ( as we saw him get for real) and harassed by the fans. Of course Vengence has only 2 weeks of selling and the WWE are moving quick to make this card tonight.

Now the Highlanders are comical. The one Rory I believe peeks in a trashcan and finds trash " Look Robby , they have food everywhere ! " I'd love to see these guys walk around and be totally crazy in a good way. Like fish outta water. :p

Hmmm looks like thier pushing Johnny Nitro as a singles star. He does have the look , valet and he does have mic skills. Yeah....no brainer. He beats Carlito with help from Melina . Shelton Benjimen is gonna face the 2 of them at Vengence in a 3 way dance for the IC Title.

Backstage we see Edge get interviewed as he really cuts another good promo. He's shaking up the industry by beating 3 ECW Superstars and costing Cena the Title. He's on everyones lips. He then says that him and Lita will accept Paul's invitation. Wanna bet he's ECW too ?;)

Down to the ring comes Stevie Richards , Justin Credible and Balls Mahoney. The 3 hold up thier tickets as ya know...something is gonna happen here. Edge comes out and the 3 guys give Edge the favorable ECW Golf Clap. As he seems happy.

Cena comes out and the match gets quickly DQ'd as Lita gets involved. The ECW guys help Edge out as Cena starts to destroy all 3 as fans boo. They cleary do not accept John Cena being " Super Cena " as usual. The chant at ONS echoes in my head " Over-Rated " .

Edge runs off as Cena takes the mic and claims he's gonna be there too. Yep should be fun. Dreamer will look for revenge against Edge and Cena will get Rob Van Dam. Mmmmmm fantastic. :D




The Bad

Charlie Haas comes out and apologizes to Lillian. He gives a heartfelt apology where he accepts that he got carried away and accidently knocked her off the apron. She goes to accept it as the World's Largest Love Machine...comes out.

In pure idiocy he squashes Charlie Haas. I'd say , Charlie go to ECW. Least ya get on the radar. Jobbing to Viscera is like jobbing to Trevor Murdoch now.

Duggen gets destroyed quickly by Umaga as Eugene tries to help. Estrada gets his name echoed by fans as he's the only one getting over in this Umaga gimmick thgus far.

To show how bad ass Umaga is , he breaks a cardboard 2x4 over his head as Jim Ross sells it like Umaga's the next coming of Sabu. Hey , J.R. you think that jackass could honestly take a 2x4 over his head and if so....how about ya let Balls Mahoney smash it across his head ! What...no....ok , stay tuned next week when Jimmy Snuka gets squashed by Umaga as Jim Ross sells Umaga as the next coming of Brock Lesnar.

How many more weeks are we gonna see these bad acting " See No Evil " stars ? I love the blond. I mean she set a record in breaking her charactor 2 seconds onto RAW.


OVERALL : ***1/2 outta 5. Bad segments and why Rob and Paul E. weren't there is wrong. The entire ECW brand should have been there since its Penn State and theres more ECW fans there. They sold Tuesday at 10pm very well.

[Tony Bang]

Seeing Cena without the belt was werid. Nice, but weird.

Can Flair last 2 or 3 falls?

[Hiromi]

Now this gets interesting as Flair mocks Foley as a glorified stuntman and claims he shouldn't be taking up for the WWE. That unlike Angle,himself,HHH and Shawn Micheals ; Foley isn't at all like them. That he mostly did big moves. Foley replies that Flair's jealous that his bygone era has passed and he's an old man who newer fans can't remember.

This is getting intense as Flair wants a match as Mick backs off. Mick playing the heel in this is pretty wild. He backs off and dares Ric to a 2/3 Falls , straight up wrestling match at Vengence. Uh oh...this smells bad. Had it been Foley taking Flair to the Extreme then maybe it could pass. But can Mick straight up wrestle 30 minutes ? With his gas tank ?


I missed this segment. I just read Flair's book over the weekend, and I find it really interesting as that's exactly what he called Foley in it, an overglorified stuntman. It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

[Hiromi]

Seeing Cena without the belt was werid. Nice, but weird.

Can Flair last 2 or 3 falls?

Flair worked most of his career in hour long matches when he was NWA champ, I think he can last a 2 outa 3 match, age or no age.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I missed this segment. I just read Flair's book over the weekend, and I find it really interesting as that's exactly what he called Foley in it, an overglorified stuntman. It'll be interesting to see where this goes.


Well Mick in an interview claims he understood why Ric was so mad in WCW. I mean , had he knew the hard situation Ric was in having to battle to stop from cutting his hair and how pissed Ric was about that.:p

Ric was going thru bad times with Jim Herd. Who wanted him to cut his hair and become Spartecus lol.

[Hiromi]

If a quarter of what Flair said was true about Herd then he was fucking idiot among fucking idiots.

[DanH]

Just finished watching ECW,....I mean RAW and i have to say that from what I see they are throwing matching together too quickly for Vengeance to be a very solid pay per view and my money will be going to TNA and their offering...It seems a lot of people out there had a problem when Buff Bagwell, Ric Steiner and Lex Luger were on TNA IMPACT,....I find it funny however when those same people are now cheering the fact that the WWE used Hacksaw Jim Duggan in a match and even Jim Ross admitted to knowing Duggan from his Mid South days,....How many readers are old enough to remember Mid South Wrestling?
Duggan has been wrestling well before the other Bagwell,Luger or Steiner.

Speaking of elder statesmen of wrestling and slow paced matches can you imagine how slow paced the Ric Flair who has jobbed to everyone as of late wrestling Mic Foley in a 2 out of 3 falls match will be?.....Maybe it's just me but give me Samoa Joe-v- Scott Steiner as the stronger match.

If you watched Raw you had to wonder:

1>Will the endless sea of promos end?
I mean did you notice them skip right from a Mickie James promo into a Randy Orton promo without even getting a match between the two..This is wrestling not a talk show.
I found Vince's long winded promo dull at best and far below even his usual standards like he was only half into it.

2>Why is Triple H now a mid carder?

3>The Main event match of the evening only lasted a minute worth of action before the bell rang and the match was thrown out..This continues a trend from ECW's One Night Stand where they had 2 matches that lasted under a minute....Who is booking this crap Dusty Rhodes?

4>Has Raw now became the B show,.....It seems as if we were over flooded with ECW promo's and talent being on Raw,...If ECW is so good it should be able to stand on it's own merits and not have to rely on have the RAW roster being on it tomorrow...I mean Cena,Edge,.....Angle is flip flopping and will be on Vengeance....It makes my head spin,..I thought ECW was supposed to be a "New Breed" all I see now is a blend not something new.

5>Whats with the trip down memory lane,....The Higlanders the WWE's new tag team has been done before folks only it was known as The Bushwhackers and trust me the Highlanders aren't even in the same league.

6>Isn't it Ironic that DX is reforming after and only after TNA put "The New Age Outlaws" back together as The James Gang?.......WWE stop ripping off and repeating come up with something new and fresh!

That's how I saw Raw tonight folks if you want something that offers hard hitting Non Stop Action Try TNA "IMPACT"Thursday Nights at 11:00 PM est

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV4qSUkleuk

[Phrozen]

Just finished watching ECW,....I mean RAW and i have to say that from what I see they are throwing matching together too quickly for Vengeance to be a very solid pay per view and my money will be going to TNA and their offering


I have a sneaking suspicsion that you would of done that anyway no matter how good the card was. Dixie Carter is that you?

[Sabrinaset]

Why would Viscera care about Lillian? Didn't he dump her to be with the Godfather's Ho's? I actually thought Vis would ALSo come out and apologize...but eh.

I liked the promo featuring Gaz and BlairH!

[titanfan]

The Vengeance card is looking a heck of a lot better to me right now. Still probably not going to get it--but for a PPV that is usually one of the year's worst--this one might not be so bad.

Flair worked most of his career in hour long matches when he was NWA champ, I think he can last a 2 outa 3 match, age or no age.

I'm sure he can--but I used to despise his hour long matches in the old days. Holy 5 minute rest holds!!!

I found the Mickie James/Randy Orton segment to be unintentionally hilarious. Considering Randy is known for tormenting divas, the way Mickie was like: "Hello, Randy! Goodbye, Randy!" and then ran off.

This was by far one of the worst crowds ever. Hardly any reaction at all!

Lots of filler--waaaay too much considering that RAW went like 15 minutes long. Probably one reason the final match was so crappy and short. The Vince McMahon promo was long winded and told us nothing new about the "state" of the WWE. Torrie vs. Candace seemed like it went a few minutes too long.

[titanfan]

Why would Viscera care about Lillian? Didn't he dump her to be with the Godfather's Ho's? I actually thought Vis would ALSo come out and apologize...but eh.

Yeah, but two weeks ago, he re-proposed to her. She didn't get the chance to accept because Umaga attacked him.

[Sabrinaset]

Oh, okay. I missed that show. Thanks :)

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Just finished watching ECW,....I mean RAW and i have to say that from what I see they are throwing matching together too quickly for Vengeance to be a very solid pay per view and my money will be going to TNA and their offering.

Uhh Dan you do realize the WWE has only 2 weeks to hard sell a PPV and get the lineup out there. The June RAW PPV is the 25th. Not exactly tons of time to throw out a match a week lol.

..It seems a lot of people out there had a problem when Buff Bagwell, Ric Steiner and Lex Luger were on TNA IMPACT,....I find it funny however when those same people are now cheering the fact that the WWE used Hacksaw Jim Duggan in a match and even Jim Ross admitted to knowing Duggan from his Mid South days,....How many readers are old enough to remember Mid South Wrestling?
Duggan has been wrestling well before the other Bagwell,Luger or Steiner.

No ones complaining because Duggen is doing mostly comedy and putting over Umaga. He's doing this in the mid to lower card. Unlike Steiner , Luger and others who are taking up spots where TNA needs to push thier young stars in the 1 hour time slot they have on Spike TV.

This is why people are mocking TNA. This is why Sting/Scott Steiner pulled a 1.0 and why Heyman mocked the product. I do agree that the young stars like Sabin , Daniels , Styles and Samoa Joe need to be featured and pushed more than Scott Steiner and Kevin Nash.

Speaking of elder statesmen of wrestling and slow paced matches can you imagine how slow paced the Ric Flair who has jobbed to everyone as of late wrestling Mic Foley in a 2 out of 3 falls match will be?.....Maybe it's just me but give me Samoa Joe-v- Scott Steiner as the stronger match.


Ric Flair will make Scott Steiner look like Jackie Gayda in ring. Flair can still go and pull decent matches in his late 50's. Steiner has a bad back , legs , and is stiff as f-ck. Samoa Joe isn't exactly un-stiff himself so it should be good for the morbid factor it could become Kronik/Taker & Kane II where all 4 stiffed each other to the point of a bad f-cking match. :D

If you watched Raw you had to wonder:

1>Will the endless sea of promos end?
I mean did you notice them skip right from a Mickie James promo into a Randy Orton promo without even getting a match between the two..This is wrestling not a talk show.

Both promos lasted less than 5 minutes. And set up Orton's rematch against Kurt.

I found Vince's long winded promo dull at best and far below even his usual standards like he was only half into it.


He was swearing revenge ect ect.....plus he's been kinda dull the last few weeks anyhow.

2>Why is Triple H now a mid carder?

Steph's pregnet and he's expected to be taking time off soon anyhow. He didn't wanna do a face turn anyhow and he's doing it at this stage because they formed the ECW Brand.

3>The Main event match of the evening only lasted a minute worth of action before the bell rang and the match was thrown out..This continues a trend from ECW's One Night Stand where they had 2 matches that lasted under a minute....Who is booking this crap Dusty Rhodes?

What 2 matches lasted less than a minute at ONS ? Sandman and Eugene was not a match. Its bad when you don't even watch the PPV or read the spoilers.


4>Has Raw now became the B show,.....It seems as if we were over flooded with ECW promo's and talent being on Raw,...If ECW is so good it should be able to stand on it's own merits and not have to rely on have the RAW roster being on it tomorrow...I mean Cena,Edge,.....Angle is flip flopping and will be on Vengeance....It makes my head spin,..I thought ECW was supposed to be a "New Breed" all I see now is a blend not something new.

Thier launching another Brand. They have to launch the series with a lead in angle. Edge will likely join Angle in New ECW. This will be a mixture of OVW/DSW and ECW stars in this. It was not gonna be an old time ECW show. That era is gone. This ECW will have new elements and thus far Angle has clicked with the ECW target fanbase.

You mean RVD and Angle wrestling on Vengence makes your head spin ? Why....Rob's WWE Champion for now. And Kurt has 1 last score to settle with Orton.

5>Whats with the trip down memory lane,....The Higlanders the WWE's new tag team has been done before folks only it was known as The Bushwhackers and trust me the Highlanders aren't even in the same league.

Thier funny. I like them for that. Thier a funny tag team and its something the WWE needs. Even if thier a mixture of the Headbangers and Bushwhackers for a new era.

6>Isn't it Ironic that DX is reforming after and only after TNA put "The New Age Outlaws" back together as The James Gang?.......WWE stop ripping off and repeating come up with something new and fresh!


Micheals and HHH flirted with a DX Reunion in 2002. Plus I don't look at The James Gang as a true DX Reunion. The New Age Outlaws worked best as a team alone. Once they got folded into DX thier unique team sadly died.

[marshal99]

The Vengeance card is looking a heck of a lot better to me right now. Still probably not going to get it--but for a PPV that is usually one of the year's worst--this one might not be so bad.


The Vengeance PPV last year was pretty good actually , you had the shawn Michaels/Kurt Angle rematch , the excellent HITC match between Triple H & Batista , and the triple threat match between Cena , Christian and Jericho. Imo , it was one of the stronger WWE PPV last year.

[DanH]

[QUOTE=SUPERECWFAN1]Uhh Dan you do realize the WWE has only 2 weeks to hard sell a PPV and get the lineup out there. The June RAW PPV is the 25th. Not exactly tons of time to throw out a match a week lol.


Um,...you do realize that you just proved my point..A company the size of WWE should be better organized and should have thought long term how to logically put the matches together for this PPV.....When they seem to make multiple matches on the same show for the same card it makes the ppv look weaker.

[torippu]

Was it me or did it look like Flair was a little wasted? His eyes were bloodshot and it sounded like he was slurring his words.

Being an old Mid-Atlantic/NWA/WCW fan, it's hard to watch Ric Flair on TV these days. He's a shell of his former self and I wish that he'd just hang up his boots.

[clayholio]

Was it me or did it look like Flair was a little wasted? His eyes were bloodshot and it sounded like he was slurring his words.
Flair didn't seem unusually wasted tonight. He's always a little goofy these days.

The Flair/Foley segment made the entire show worthwhile. And as for any criticism about the short lead-in to Vengeance, didn't Kurt Angle and HBK build to their Wrestlemania 21 match in about a month (when Kurt decided to duplicate HBK's career in only 4 weeks)? The only thing that I hate is that I'd love to see Flair and Foley do interviews and jabber at each other for a couple of months, but they're both so good that they did about a month's worth of work on tonight's show alone.

The DX thing was fun, too.

[marshal99]

It's inevitable , both of them had heat with one another after Flair called Foley a stuntman in his book and repeated that claim on TV later , it's pretty logical that WWE will use a real life heat to put them against one another in a match , i'm just surprised that it took so long to do so.

[Hiromi]

It's inevitable , both of them had heat with one another after Flair called Foley a stuntman in his book and repeated that claim on TV later , it's pretty logical that WWE will use a real life heat to put them against one another in a match , i'm just surprised that it took so long to do so.

Well it really started in Foley's book when he claimed Flair had helped to bury him while he was in WCW, which Flair called him back out on in his book, etc etc.

[Forefinger]

I missed this segment. I just read Flair's book over the weekend, and I find it really interesting as that's exactly what he called Foley in it, an overglorified stuntman. It'll be interesting to see where this goes.
Yeah, that's why Flair kept saying "I've been waiting 3 years for this!".

Ric Flair back in action! WOOOOOOO!

[JohnPopa]

The problem is the Flair/Foley stuff seemed based on the assumption that everyone had read their books which at this point probably isn't true. They could have done a better job of reestablishing the situations. It was an OK segment but I think with Flair and Foley, I wanted a little better than an OK segment.

[mrc1214]

I have a question with DX vs Spirit Squad are they setting up the rest of DX to come back a Vengence?? I havent watched wrestling in a pretty long time so i dont even know if the rest of them are even around.

And as far a Ric Flair goes i think its great seeing him but hes loosing his mind.
I missed the whole ending of Raw which i wish i would have stayed up for. I just hope that they stop using Cena he one of the worst wrestlers ive ever seen. I know wrestling is fake but i mean hes just horrible. Compared to almost and other WWE champion hes a disgrace. Why McMahon chose him as the champ is beyond me. And the same goes for Edge. When i used to watch he was a B-level wrestler at best and he should have stayed that way.

And one more thing does anyone else think that WWE may have given too much talent to ECW (Angle, Big Show). Those were too pretty big wrestlers and to be honest i dont know how either will fit it with ECW.

[JohnPopa]

Billy Gunn and Road Dogg are with TNA wrestling now and wouldn't be able to come back to WWE.

[Gaz]

Billy Gunn and Road Dogg are with TNA wrestling now and wouldn't be able to come back to WWE.
X-Pac is signed to that MTV thing as well.
Rick Rude's dead.
Chyna has too many problems and Stephanie McMahon hates her.

[Forefinger]

The problem is the Flair/Foley stuff seemed based on the assumption that everyone had read their books which at this point probably isn't true. They could have done a better job of reestablishing the situations. It was an OK segment but I think with Flair and Foley, I wanted a little better than an OK segment.
Yeah, I know what you are saying. Hopefully they will have another segment next week to pump it up more.

[Forefinger]

The problem is the Flair/Foley stuff seemed based on the assumption that everyone had read their books which at this point probably isn't true. They could have done a better job of reestablishing the situations. It was an OK segment but I think with Flair and Foley, I wanted a little better than an OK segment.
Yeah, I know what you are saying. Hopefully they will have another segment next week to pump it up more.

[mistervader]

The more I read about Dan H's NWA Trolling, the less I feel like watching it.

Seriously, it's reverse psychology.

[Scott Evil]

Pretty good RAW in my opinion; good development of the Flair v Foley match (makes me wanna read Flair's book now if anything) and they finally shot the DX angle back. Hate to say it but it made me call my cousin and tell him the WWE's crotch chopping again! I knew they've been building it for a while, thank goodness they didn't let it drag out until the PPV.

Question though about the Nitro v Carlito match; what was Nitro's finisher? I've never seen him fight, only snips from when he was in Smackdown; but I've never seen him do that move! It looked like he even stumped Good Ol' JR cause even JR didn't have a name for the move yet. It was like a standing Shooting Star Press but it looked like he just dropped his elbow/forearm on Carlito's neck as opposed to a full splash. Did he mess up his own move or is this his own variation? I know I've seen someone @ TNA do it (Sonjay Dutt, I think..) Oh well, thanks for the help

[Shade]

Question though about the Nitro v Carlito match; what was Nitro's finisher? I've never seen him fight, only snips from when he was in Smackdown; but I've never seen him do that move! It looked like he even stumped Good Ol' JR cause even JR didn't have a name for the move yet. It was like a standing Shooting Star Press but it looked like he just dropped his elbow/forearm on Carlito's neck as opposed to a full splash. Did he mess up his own move or is this his own variation? I know I've seen someone @ TNA do it (Sonjay Dutt, I think..) Oh well, thanks for the help


Looked to me like he messed up a standing moonsault.

[JohnPopa]

Looked to me like he messed up a standing moonsault.

It's supposed to be a standing Shooting Star Press but it didn't go well last night.

[Scott Evil]

It's supposed to be a standing Shooting Star Press but it didn't go well last night.

Oh, ok- I thought it was some variation that I've never seen. It did look kinda lame if it was only supposed to be an elbow to the neck. Reminded me of when Brock missed Kurt Angle by A FOOT and he tried salvaging it by reaching his arm out~! At least JR saved Brock by saying "..and THAT'S WHY ITS CALLED A HIGH-RISK MANEAUVER!!" - hilarious..

[Dennis K]

Watching a two out of three falls match between Flair and Foley is going to be about as painful as watching Tom Bosley and Wilfred Brimley doing threeway porn with Bea Arthur.

[cactusmaac]

If they were going to do a Flair\Foley match, they should have done it in 2004 when the controversy was fresh and Mick was in great condition.

Now Flair is too decreipt to generate a decent match, Foley's out of shape, only smarks know what the background is and the story doesn't logically flow into Mick's recent activity.

And 2 out of 3 falls? That does not augur well.

[Bright-Raven]

Okay, it's been complained about that TNA had Bagwell, Luger and Rick Steiner on the air because Dan's complaining about Flair, Funk, Foley, and Duggan.

Sorry to say, but Dan's right. All of these guys are taking up in-ring wrestling time and have no place in the ring anymore.

Bagwell, R. Steiner and Luger only made brief appearances and did no fighting of any sort, as part of a story angle as to who Sting's partner might be at a PPV in a tag match v. Jarrett and S. Steiner. And when that match took place, it ended up being an active TNA roster member in Samoa Joe, not someone who had no place in the ring.

Big difference.

[Bright-Raven]

For a set up show for Vengeance, this wasn't too bad. Personally, I would like Smackdown to just fade away and merge the two rosters, and let ECW be whatever it's going to be. They don't have enough talent for three shows a week. (And as I said before, what with UPN dying, there's a good chance Smackdown will die off.)

[Forefinger]

They said before that Smackdown was verified for the new CW network, didn't they?

[JohnPopa]

Let's try and make this as clear as possible: anyone who can draw money has a place in the ring. Period. If you think there's any point to wrestling other than drawing money, you're a mark.

It isn't a question of whether or not you can use older talents or whether you should only use younger talents. It's only a question of how you're using those people. If anyone thinks a show will succeed just by throwing young talent out there and having them put one another over, you're really pretty uninformed.

Foley and Funk were used as part of the ECW relaunch because they're what ECW fans want to see. They wrestled an ECW style match for the ECW fans who expect that. On a nostalgia-based PPV, they were used correctly. They were not put over any new talent, nor did they bury any new talent along the way. Nor was this match the main event of the PPV, nor was it put in the position of overshadowing the world title match. As the company was relaunching the ECW brand, having a dose of traditional ECW wrestling is the smart and intelligent thing to do to draw back those fans. That's what Foley and Funk delivered and, along the way, kept pushing Edge as a major heel.

Foley and Flair are being used in an upper mid-card feud against one another. Again, no younger talent is being buried in this feud. If you don't think wrestling has a lengthy history of using legend talent in midcard feuds on major shows then you are completely ignorant of wrestling history and should learn something before you talk about wrestling beyond '____ RULZ.' The PPV is also coming from Charlotte, which is Ric Flair's hometown and a place where he still DRAWS well when used effectively. Flair and Foley will draw ticket sales to the arena, as well as draw PPV sales from people who may have watched wrestling a few years back and remember them. Again, this is not at the expense of any piece of talent, nor is it the main event of the show, nor will it be put in a position to overshadow the World Title. It's a novelty, sure, and that's the point.

As SuperECW mentioned, Duggan's being used in a lower midcard role to put over Umaga. Not only is he not hurting new talent, he's been there for the sheer purpose of continually putting over a new piece of talent. So you'd rather they use a new piece of talent who doesn't need to be buried, just to feed a monster gimmick?

Had Bagwell, Luger and Steiner meant anything to business, it might have been worthwhile. As it stands, they wasted a lot of time and money paying guys who didn't even do anything, when they have a roster already overloaded with talent looking for time on the air and in front of the audience. They also wasted time with skits and nonsense that don't keep the viewers they're bringing in from their UFC lead-in. Those segments hurt the company and also kept them from announcing a PPV main event until three days before the event itself.

TNA and WWE aren't in the same position and, thus, saying what one does is what the other should be doing isn't always relevant.

The Scott Steiner/Samoa Joe feud is the PROPER way to use older talent to get over younger talent. Steiner and his aura is being used to boost Joe's standing. I trust Steiner's ability to put Joe over a lot more than I trust Nash's ability to put over Sabin. There's a lot more to putting someone over than just taking a three count.

[titanfan]

They said before that Smackdown was verified for the new CW network, didn't they?

Yes. Actually, one of the first shows they picked up and they highlighted it as one of their premiere shows. (Although still leaving it on Friday nights)

[SUPERECWFAN1]

[QUOTE=SUPERECWFAN1]Uhh Dan you do realize the WWE has only 2 weeks to hard sell a PPV and get the lineup out there. The June RAW PPV is the 25th. Not exactly tons of time to throw out a match a week lol.


Um,...you do realize that you just proved my point..A company the size of WWE should be better organized and should have thought long term how to logically put the matches together for this PPV.....When they seem to make multiple matches on the same show for the same card it makes the ppv look weaker.


Flair was off for his Wedding and Honeymoon during this time and the roster was partly used to set up the ECW relaunch , Dan. There wasn't enough RAW talent to set up Vengence while doing the ECW Brand , relaunch.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Let's try and make this as clear as possible: anyone who can draw money has a place in the ring. Period. If you think there's any point to wrestling other than drawing money, you're a mark.

It isn't a question of whether or not you can use older talents or whether you should only use younger talents. It's only a question of how you're using those people. If anyone thinks a show will succeed just by throwing young talent out there and having them put one another over, you're really pretty uninformed.

Foley and Funk were used as part of the ECW relaunch because they're what ECW fans want to see. They wrestled an ECW style match for the ECW fans who expect that. On a nostalgia-based PPV, they were used correctly. They were not put over any new talent, nor did they bury any new talent along the way. Nor was this match the main event of the PPV, nor was it put in the position of overshadowing the world title match. As the company was relaunching the ECW brand, having a dose of traditional ECW wrestling is the smart and intelligent thing to do to draw back those fans. That's what Foley and Funk delivered and, along the way, kept pushing Edge as a major heel.

Foley and Flair are being used in an upper mid-card feud against one another. Again, no younger talent is being buried in this feud. If you don't think wrestling has a lengthy history of using legend talent in midcard feuds on major shows then you are completely ignorant of wrestling history and should learn something before you talk about wrestling beyond '____ RULZ.' The PPV is also coming from Charlotte, which is Ric Flair's hometown and a place where he still DRAWS well when used effectively. Flair and Foley will draw ticket sales to the arena, as well as draw PPV sales from people who may have watched wrestling a few years back and remember them. Again, this is not at the expense of any piece of talent, nor is it the main event of the show, nor will it be put in a position to overshadow the World Title. It's a novelty, sure, and that's the point.

As SuperECW mentioned, Duggan's being used in a lower midcard role to put over Umaga. Not only is he not hurting new talent, he's been there for the sheer purpose of continually putting over a new piece of talent. So you'd rather they use a new piece of talent who doesn't need to be buried, just to feed a monster gimmick?

Had Bagwell, Luger and Steiner meant anything to business, it might have been worthwhile. As it stands, they wasted a lot of time and money paying guys who didn't even do anything, when they have a roster already overloaded with talent looking for time on the air and in front of the audience. They also wasted time with skits and nonsense that don't keep the viewers they're bringing in from their UFC lead-in. Those segments hurt the company and also kept them from announcing a PPV main event until three days before the event itself.

TNA and WWE aren't in the same position and, thus, saying what one does is what the other should be doing isn't always relevant.

The Scott Steiner/Samoa Joe feud is the PROPER way to use older talent to get over younger talent. Steiner and his aura is being used to boost Joe's standing. I trust Steiner's ability to put Joe over a lot more than I trust Nash's ability to put over Sabin. There's a lot more to putting someone over than just taking a three count.


Its not normally me and John Popa agree on things here. But he is right. Funk and Foley more or less was there for ECW fans as notsalgia. And it worked...

[lboinyamouf4sho]

No ones complaining because Duggen is doing mostly comedy and putting over Umaga. He's doing this in the mid to lower card. Unlike Steiner , Luger and others who are taking up spots where TNA needs to push thier young stars in the 1 hour time slot they have on Spike TV.

This is why people are mocking TNA. This is why Sting/Scott Steiner pulled a 1.0 and why Heyman mocked the product. I do agree that the young stars like Sabin , Daniels , Styles and Samoa Joe need to be featured and pushed more than Scott Steiner and Kevin Nash.



Ric Flair will make Scott Steiner look like Jackie Gayda in ring. Flair can still go and pull decent matches in his late 50's. Steiner has a bad back , legs , and is stiff as f-ck. Samoa Joe isn't exactly un-stiff himself so it should be good for the morbid factor it could become Kronik/Taker & Kane II where all 4 stiffed each other to the point of a bad f-cking match. :D





the above statements lead me to believe that you have not been watching TNA. 1st luger, buff, and rick steiner were only used 1 night as part of the mystery partner angle and none of them wrestled. so none of those guys took anybodys spot. 2 steiner is being used to further put over young talent samoa joe and being used quite well. 3 scott steiner has looked damn impressive as of late, more impressive than flair has looked in awhile. watch the tag match that involved steiner and joe and you'll see they worked well together and joe didn't carry steiner.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

the above statements lead me to believe that you have not been watching TNA. 1st luger, buff, and rick steiner were only used 1 night as part of the mystery partner angle and none of them wrestled. so none of those guys took anybodys spot. 2 steiner is being used to further put over young talent samoa joe and being used quite well. 3 scott steiner has looked damn impressive as of late, more impressive than flair has looked in awhile. watch the tag match that involved steiner and joe and you'll see they worked well together and joe didn't carry steiner.


Theres a differance in working tags like Steiner was doing and being asked to go out and work 10 to 15 minutes with a Samoa Joe. Steiner isn't in good shape. His last major singles matches were against HHH in 2004 and he struggled in them.

Scott is a great mic worker and does the " outta f'n control " charactor well. I love that. But its gonna take a lot for him to work 10 to 15 minutes with Samoa Joe at the PPV. Its nice to see Scott will put someone over but...can he go that long ?

[Erik Lehnsherr]

The first half of Raw was horrible. Just tedious to continue watching but the second hour saved the show. The Flair/Foley promo was the best segment of the show and everything Flair said I agree with. It's a match that could of happened at Summerslam but with Vengeance becoming a nicely booked event every year, it works here as well. Glad to hear of the IC title Triple Threat annoucement. Too bad Nitro botched that joke of a finisher last night though. I thought I saw Shelton and Jerry laughing afterwards. Mickie James soldified her complete and utter dominace over the division as she shown to a huge pop from the college crowd. The reaction went down immensly when Orton popped though. How ironic. Cena dominates a few ECW guys and that's it. Just a 50/50 show to me.

"While me, HHH, Shawn Michaels, The Rock, Stone Cold, Undertaker, and Kurt Angle wrestled our way to greatness. We bled, sweated, and wrestled our way to greatness and you fall off a cage and that makes you great? Bulls***!"- Ric Flair....you gotta love it.

[mistervader]

"While me, HHH, Shawn Michaels, The Rock, Stone Cold, Undertaker, and Kurt Angle wrestled our way to greatness. We bled, sweated, and wrestled our way to greatness and you fall off a cage and that makes you great? Bulls***!"- Ric Flair....you gotta love it.

Flair makes a valid point, and I'm glad that the validity of his point isn't lost on Foley anymore. They've been talking IRL recently according to his blog, which means they're slowly easing out the bad blood between them, and that's a good thing.

Too bad you need to have known the scoop on these two to get what the promo was about, but hey, nothing's perfect.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Thankfully since we are all part of the IWC, we don't have to scratch our heads. We get it thanks to the backstory we have all long known of.

[marshal99]

Flair has been badmouthing Foley on TV a couple of times already , not to mention , Angle also brought up what Flair said about Foley just recently when he jumped to ECW and Foley confronted him , so this angle is not like it came out of nowhere.

[Forefinger]

"Suck it!" *Does DX Chop"

[lboinyamouf4sho]

Theres a differance in working tags like Steiner was doing and being asked to go out and work 10 to 15 minutes with a Samoa Joe. Steiner isn't in good shape. His last major singles matches were against HHH in 2004 and he struggled in them.

Scott is a great mic worker and does the " outta f'n control " charactor well. I love that. But its gonna take a lot for him to work 10 to 15 minutes with Samoa Joe at the PPV. Its nice to see Scott will put someone over but...can he go that long ?

now i really don't think you're watching the show. steiner vs sting in a singles matched opened the last impact went 10min(a little over i think) and afterwards scott still had enough wind to get on the mic talk trash and then do a very good brawl segment with joe. his condition looked fine and the match was good, so in a match with joe who is on top of his game right now should go pretty smoothly even if steiner does get a little winded joe is more than capable of carrying him but so far all evidence says that won't be needed.

do you watch impact??