ECW : One Night Stand II Review

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I finally got my cable company to let me order it. Today I got to see the show and I pity poor DanH who claimed he " seemingly " heard people boo the PPV. Its too bad he wasn't watching it. This year the WWE decided to let ECW do longer matches and thats not a bad thing.

We'll start after the clusterf-ck that was Jerry Lawler vs Taz and go into this...


Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle

Solid match here. Orton tries to slow the pace and work a WWE style match as fans will have none of that. In fact they rip Orton a new ass with chants of " Boring " , " P-ssy " and " Cry-Baby " . Angle is treated like a GOD here. Fans cheer him and applaud him as he gets offense each time.

In the end they chant " Break his ankle " as he locks on the Anglelock. Orton taps finally and gets help to the back as fans give him the finger and chant " P-ssy " as he gets helped back. One fan can be heard yelling " F-ck you Orton ! "


F.B.I. ( Tony Mamaluke & Little Guido vs Tajiri & Super Crazy:

This was quite simply...the best match on the PPV. Tajiri and Mamaluke busting out new moves. An awesome damn tag match as I gotta say this...Tony Mamaluke will be a STAR in new ECW. He flows so well with new moves .

The F.B.I after a great tag match and Big Show comes out and deciamtes everyone. He grabs Mamaluke and tosses him sideways like a football !

Tommy Dreamer/Terry Funk/Beluh vs Edge/Mick Foley/Lita

Good start as Foley gets a less than welcome reception. Fans are split on whethor to fully boo or cheer him. Mick sells that ECW had a true genuis at its peak with Stephanie McMahon as fans boo pretty fast.

The match becomes a hardcore war as Beluh and Lita stand mostly and watch on the apron. Foley pulls out a cardboard section with barbed wire on it. It somehow gets into the ring as it becomes a weapon for both sides.

Foley wrapping his arm with barbed wire as he busts Funk open is EXTREME ! Fans erupt into " You sick f-ck " chants as well as " This is Awesome " chants as all 4 taste the barbed wire.

At the end as Funk comes back after getting his eye and head wrapped carries a 2x4 wrapped in barbed wire/ Fans chant " we want fire " and Beluh lights it as Foley gets set on fire and lands in the wire/cardboard section , trapped !! Edge takes it too. Security run over and put Mick out as Edge knocks Funk into the wire.

Dreamer takes him out and nearly gets the 3 as Lita gets involved. Fans watch as Dreamer DVD's Lita and as Beluh and Tommy share a moment Edge lays him out and spears Beluh to get the win.

At the end a part bloody , scarred Dreamer holds Beluh in his arms as Funk screams to be cut out. Styles thinks its not over between Dreamer and Edge.

Sabu vs Rey Mysterio jr : World Title match

Fans love Sabu. He's over huge here and the match equals the F.B.I/Tajiri & Super Crazy tag match. Its just an awesome singles match as the 2 do a can you top this spot at times. Mysterio taking the chair to the crotch spot....ooowwww!!

The finish is something many ECW fans have saw Sabu do as Mysterio takes the running DDT thru the bridged table spot ! Both sell a neck injury as fans are mad. The match was becoming a pretty damn singles one....ended like this sad to say.



Balls Mahoney vs Masota Tanaka

Ok not so good. Tanaka and Balls have some time to go thru things. People wonder why Tanaka did a job so quick. Well..Balls is signed to the ECW Brand and I can see why he wanted to stay strong.

John Cena vs Rob Van Dam

The fans boo Cena even in the promos. Rob is treated like a mythic hero in ECW as fans erupt as he makes sure to touch everyone in the front row.

Cena is pissed on a lot. From people tossing his shirt back as he looks shocked at the hatred. Funniest quote as the shirt got tossed back at the end by D-Von : " Hey , I know that guy ! " Joey Styles.

Match is very good as Cena and Rob get the fans involved. Cena would stop at times as fans would rip him with " You can't wrestle " and " Same old sh-t " chants. You can tell it irked him as he managed to keep going.

At the end Edge shows up in the old fashioned leather jacket and motorcycle getup Rick Rude made a staple in ECW. He spears Cena as Rob makes it back into the ring as see's Cena laid out.

Fans urge him on and one 5* Frog Splash later the Hammerstien erupts as Heyman ahs to make the 3 count. As Styles pointed out..both referees are out so I suppose since Heyman's in charge of ONS II he becomes the emergency referee !

The locker room empties as Taz/Styles say its about tim Rob got the big one. He goes into the balcony and celebrates with his wife and friends. Comes back down as Show and Angle carry him around as fans chant " ECW " as the show ends.

:D

[Lord of Denial]

I could have sworn there was a Sabu and Ray jr title match on that card.

Nevermind!

[Super Sonic]

...I think your biased.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I could have sworn there was a Sabu and Ray jr title match on that card.

Nevermind!


lol.....left it off accidently. Thought I had done it...

[SUPERECWFAN1]

...I think your biased.

Hey I'll the 1st to admit that Tanaka/Mahoney sucked. But the Mysterio/Sabu match was becoming pretty damn good. The tag match is the best one on the card though. Mamaluke was working his ass off on this.

[Lord of Denial]

Hey I'll the 1st to admit that Tanaka/Mahoney sucked. But the Mysterio/Sabu match was becoming pretty damn good. The tag match is the best one on the card though. Mamaluke was working his ass off on this.


Is that the guy that had those ECW championship bouts with Mike Awesome?

Or am I thinking of someone else.

[Super Sonic]

Hey I'll the 1st to admit that Tanaka/Mahoney sucked. But the Mysterio/Sabu match was becoming pretty damn good. The tag match is the best one on the card though. Mamaluke was working his ass off on this.

'twas but a joke.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Is that the guy that had those ECW championship bouts with Mike Awesome?

Or am I thinking of someone else.


Your thinking of Spike Dudley. Who had an awesome tables match against Awesome. Its on the recent ECW:Bloodsport DVD.

[Leslie Lee III]

Angle vs Orton was a great match and proved, with no doubt, that Orton > Angle right now. I was bored until Orton took over, Angle trying to squash someone with mat wrestling is really, really dull. Let's face it, he's no Alex Shelley.

[Lord of Denial]

Your thinking of Spike Dudley. Who had an awesome tables match against Awesome. Its on the recent ECW:Bloodsport DVD.


Unless Spike turned into a stocky asian dude than I am thinking of someone else,

[Leslie Lee III]

Unless Spike turned into a stocky asian dude than I am thinking of someone else,

Yes, that's Masato Tanaka.

[PanzerMega]

Your thinking of Spike Dudley. Who had an awesome tables match against Awesome. Its on the recent ECW:Bloodsport DVD.

No, he's right. Tanaka and Awesome had some great title matches in ECW.

[Super Sonic]

Unless Spike turned into a stocky asian dude than I am thinking of someone else,

No, you were right, that was Tanaka, he and Awesome did have a fued in ECW.

[Lord of Denial]

And you call yourself SUPERECWFAN1.;)

[Leslie Lee III]

I believe he should be forced to retire that screen name after this faux paus. I'll contact a mod.

[Royal]

Tanaka should have asked for mor on his contract. With what's going on as of late, it's nice to have a place to fall back on.

Besides, wouldn't ECW love a HHH Champ under their belt?

[PanzerMega]

I'm thinking I should retire my card-carrying ECW fan status.

After last night, I think John Cena's kinda cool again.

[Lord of Denial]

I'm thinking I should retire my card-carrying ECW fan status.

After last night, I think John Cena's kinda cool again.


To say John Cena is cool AGAIN implies that he was once cool.

I must have missed that faze of his career.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Angle vs Orton was a great match and proved, with no doubt, that Orton > Angle right now. I was bored until Orton took over, Angle trying to squash someone with mat wrestling is really, really dull. Let's face it, he's no Alex Shelley.

Are you serious?! Orton working his typical boring match was HORRIBLE and it was amusing to no end to hear those little NY fans punk him out like the sissy that he is.

[PanzerMega]

To say John Cena is cool AGAIN implies that he was once cool.

I must have missed that faze of his career.

Ah c'mon, there was a while there when he was a heel and verbally trashing everyone, where he seemed fairly fresh and interesting.

Cutting promos against Undertaker in the graveyard, ripping into Brock Lesnar all the time, and that hardcore match with Eddie Guerrero...he was so over they had to turn him face.

Sure that was a small window, but I dug him then.

[PanzerMega]

Are you serious?! Orton working his typical boring match was HORRIBLE and it was amusing to no end to hear those little NY fans punk him out like the sissy that he is.

I agree, Orton stunk up the place. I don't buy that he was "trying to suck to piss off the ECW crowd" like a few others have said. If all you bring to the table is a smug look and some headlocks, then you suck.

At least Foley could stink up an ECW arena with style.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Ah c'mon, there was a while there when he was a heel and verbally trashing everyone, where he seemed fairly fresh and interesting.

Cutting promos against Undertaker in the graveyard, ripping into Brock Lesnar all the time, and that hardcore match with Eddie Guerrero...he was so over they had to turn him face.

Sure that was a small window, but I dug him then.

2003. During the time period that teenagers was marking out for heel Cena, I was marking out for the WGTT, Hollywood Rock, and Eddie Guerrero. I always smirked at the rise of Cena and never really gave it a second thought.

[PanzerMega]

2003. During the time period that teenagers was marking out for heel Cena, I was marking out for the WGTT, Hollywood Rock, and Eddie Guerrero. I always smirked at the rist of Cena and never really gave it a second thought.

Oh yeah, those things were all good too.

Ah, back in the days when Haas wasn't injuring announcers and lucky to have a job.

And Rock's extremely long entrance video was so great.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

And you call yourself SUPERECWFAN1.;)


I thought you were talking about a little guy. Tony Mamaluke is a small guy and doesn't look like a chunky Tanaka last I saw. ;)

[cactusmaac]

Are you serious?! Orton working his typical boring match was HORRIBLE and it was amusing to no end to hear those little NY fans punk him out like the sissy that he is.

Yeah, Orton served up his regular big bowl of Average. Edge outpoints him on so many levels it isn't funny.

Just finished watching the replay here and I liked it. I thought Cena was much the better performer during his match with RVD.

Crowd was insane.

[Lord of Denial]

I thought you were talking about a little guy. Tony Mamaluke is a small guy and doesn't look like a chunky Tanaka last I saw. ;)


I see where you could make that mistake.

I should been a bit clearer on which part of the post I was talking about.

You still are worthy of the name!:)

[cactusmaac]

To say John Cena is cool AGAIN implies that he was once cool.

I must have missed that faze of his career.

Cena was the best promo guy in the company when he was doing his rap gimmick. He had a great bad boy veneer. Seeing him make his entrance at Judgement Day 2005, casually walk down the roof of JBL's limo and then kick the horns off the front was ace. Doing the same kind of character work against Triple H, Edge and RVD would have delivered really hot feuds.

[Lord of Denial]

Cena was the best promo guy in the company when he was doing his rap gimmick. He had a great bad boy veneer. Seeing him make his entrance at Judgement Day 2005, casually walk down the roof of JBL's limo and then kick the horns off the front was ace. Doing the same kind of character work against Triple H, Edge and RVD would have delivered really hot feuds.


Yeah but he did it all being a cliche white rapper. That killed any type of cool he had for me.

[Royal]

To say John Cena is cool AGAIN implies that he was once cool.

I must have missed that faze of his career.

You'd have to had been hardcore to have seen it.

[marshal99]

To say John Cena is cool AGAIN implies that he was once cool.

I must have missed that faze of his career.

He was cool when he had a cutting edge and does all those sometimes vulgar raps about his opposition wrestler , but he became uncool once he starts sucking up to the crowd too much.

[Leslie Lee III]

If all you bring to the table is a smug look and some headlocks, then you suck.

So I guess the first 5 minutes of Angle laying on top of Orton was the height of wrestling excitement, right? Please, he used the hold exactly as he should have to rile up the crowd for Angle's lame comeback moves. Wow, double leg takedown halfway into the match, so powerful. Yay, sloppy northern lariat. OMG, the Chris Benoit Memorial German Suplex Spot.

Orton's counters and selling totally made the match. That's the stuff that happened between the Angle Slam and the Ankle lock, but it seems most people don't notice anything else. I think WWE should just give someone's who is crap an "I"m a good wrestler" gimmick so they can all be worshipped on the internet.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

So I guess the first 5 minutes of Angle laying on top of Orton was the height of wrestling excitement, right? Please, he used the hold exactly as he should have to rile up the crowd for Angle's lame comeback moves. Wow, double leg takedown halfway into the match, so powerful. Yay, sloppy northern lariat. OMG, the Chris Benoit Memorial German Suplex Spot.

Orton's counters and selling totally made the match. That's the stuff that happened between the Angle Slam and the Ankle lock, but it seems most people don't notice anything else. I think WWE should just give someone's who is crap an "I"m a good wrestler" gimmick so they can all be worshipped on the internet.


I will say this..at times Orton looked razzled out there. I don't think he was that ready for the response he recieved. Cena I'm sure was prepared. He seemed to be ready and didn't let it get him too bad. Even though he did seem irked when they started a "You can't wrestle " chant.

[titanfan]

I think WWE should just give someone's who is crap an "I"m a good wrestler" gimmick so they can all be worshipped on the internet.

That Gunner Scott dude on Smackdown!

[marshal99]

So I guess the first 5 minutes of Angle laying on top of Orton was the height of wrestling excitement, right? Please, he used the hold exactly as he should have to rile up the crowd for Angle's lame comeback moves. Wow, double leg takedown halfway into the match, so powerful. Yay, sloppy northern lariat. OMG, the Chris Benoit Memorial German Suplex Spot.

Orton's counters and selling totally made the match. That's the stuff that happened between the Angle Slam and the Ankle lock, but it seems most people don't notice anything else. I think WWE should just give someone's who is crap an "I"m a good wrestler" gimmick so they can all be worshipped on the internet.

You must be one of the rare few fans that actually thinks Angle sucks . Funny how you think Orton is so awesome while Angle sucks. Everyone has their pet hate it seems around here , DanH hates everything about WWE , likewise for Royal , SuperECWfan hates big guys , Erik hates shawn michaels with a passion and you seemed to hate Angle. :D

[Royal]

You must be one of the rare few fans that actually thinks Angle sucks . Funny how you think Orton is so awesome while Angle sucks. Everyone has their pet hate it seems around here , DanH hates everything about WWE , likewise for Royal , SuperECWfan hates big guys , Erik hates shawn michaels with a passion and you seemed to hate Angle. :D

I don't hate The E.

I hate the egotism that runs in The E. Promoter and wrestler. I think that if that egotism can be shut off for a teeny tiny bit, the US can put out a much better pro-wrestling product. Egotism is pretty much the only thing holding pro wrestling back and it needs to be stopped.

[Pól Rua]

I don't hate The E.

I hate the egotism that runs in The E. Promoter and wrestler. I think that if that egotism can be shut off for a teeny tiny bit, the US can put out a much better pro-wrestling product. Egotism is pretty much the only thing holding pro wrestling back and it needs to be stopped.

And it ain't just SuperE who hates the hosses.

[cactusmaac]

So I guess the first 5 minutes of Angle laying on top of Orton was the height of wrestling excitement, right? Please, he used the hold exactly as he should have to rile up the crowd for Angle's lame comeback moves. Wow, double leg takedown halfway into the match, so powerful. Yay, sloppy northern lariat. OMG, the Chris Benoit Memorial German Suplex Spot.

Orton's counters and selling totally made the match. That's the stuff that happened between the Angle Slam and the Ankle lock, but it seems most people don't notice anything else. I think WWE should just give someone's who is crap an "I"m a good wrestler" gimmick so they can all be worshipped on the internet.

Maybe when Orton starts having brilliant MOTYCs like Angle's had against the likes of Benoit at Royal Rumble '03, Taker at No Way Out '06, Rey at Summerslam '02, Rocky at Now Way Out '01, Austin at Summerslam '01, Brock Lesnar at Wrestlemania XIX, Eddie at Wrestlemania XX and with Benoit against Edge and Rey at No Mercy '02, maybe then they'll start giving him more credit.

Orton isn't more than a flashy pose, a hyped finisher and the ability to take a beating.

[Melbourne Mew Mew]

I don't hate The E.

I hate the egotism that runs in The E. Promoter and wrestler. I think that if that egotism can be shut off for a teeny tiny bit, the US can put out a much better pro-wrestling product. Egotism is pretty much the only thing holding pro wrestling back and it needs to be stopped.

It ain't just WWE that has problems with egotism. I'm pretty much a new joshi fan, but some older fans regard Kyoko Inoue as shouldering a significant portion of the blame for the decline of joshi in recent years for not wanting to job to the up-and-comers (some seem to regard her as joshi's equivalent of HHH).

[Leslie Lee III]

You must be one of the rare few fans that actually thinks Angle sucks . Funny how you think Orton is so awesome while Angle sucks.

You must abe one of those people who doesn't read posts. I didn't say Angle sucks, I criticized the wrestling he did on Sunday (even placed the blame on his gimmick). The only bias shown here is on the ones criticizing Orton for using a headlock when Angle used three headlocks in the very same match. That's markishness for you right there. It's great that people are so into Kurt Angle's gimmick as a great wrestler (and happens to be one as well), but it's a bit silly when you criticize people just because they don't have it.

Orton isn't more than a flashy pose, a hyped finisher and the ability to take a beating.


The Angle's nothing more than a singlet and moves borrowed from wrestlers who knew how to use them better.

I really don't understand how you people can have this huge gaping blindspot. Don't you think there's just a little reason why a guy like Orton gets put in matches the same length as guys like Angle, Benoit, HBK, Rey, HHH, Edge (oh wait, most of you probably don't realize he's talented either), and the other top quality guys in the WWE? No, I'm not talking about being pushed. I'm talking about being given 15-20 minutes on TV to do whatever you want in the ring, and that's not something you see very many guys trusted with on Smackdown, let alone Raw (which happened numerous times when he was there before).

[Gaz]

You must be one of the rare few fans that actually thinks Angle sucks . Funny how you think Orton is so awesome while Angle sucks. Everyone has their pet hate it seems around here , DanH hates everything about WWE , likewise for Royal , SuperECWfan hates big guys , Erik hates shawn michaels with a passion and you seemed to hate Angle. :D
Don't forget you and Joe.:p

[Gaz]

You must abe one of those people who doesn't read posts. I didn't say Angle sucks, I criticized the wrestling he did on Sunday (even placed the blame on his gimmick). The only bias shown here is on the ones criticizing Orton for using a headlock when Angle used three headlocks in the very same match. That's markishness for you right there. It's great that people are so into Kurt Angle's gimmick as a great wrestler (and happens to be one as well), but it's a bit silly when you criticize people just because they don't have it.




The Angle's nothing more than a singlet and moves borrowed from wrestlers who knew how to use them better.

I really don't understand how you people can have this huge gaping blindspot. Don't you think there's just a little reason why a guy like Orton gets put in matches the same length as guys like Angle, Benoit, HBK, Rey, HHH, Edge (oh wait, most of you probably don't realize he's talented either), and the other top quality guys in the WWE? No, I'm not talking about being pushed. I'm talking about being given 15-20 minutes on TV to do whatever you want in the ring, and that's not something you see very many guys trusted with on Smackdown, let alone Raw (which happened numerous times when he was there before).

Mark Henry and Paul Wight get that length too, IF they're in with Angle, Rey, Michaels or Benoit. The fact that Orton is IN the match doesn't mean he's WHY it's long. Beyond the famed Ortonlock and his nifty backbreaker, he's about as rounded as any one of a dozen guys in the locker room. Hell, Nitro is just as good at heeling it up and sells well (and Shelton's about as good at promos), but I wouldn't place him in Benoit or Angle's league.

[Leslie Lee III]

Mark Henry and Paul Wight get that length too, IF they're in with Angle, Rey, Michaels or Benoit.

Hell no. Mark Henry didn't even get that long on the main event of a PPV with Angle. Let's not just start making crap up. And Big Show is quite good at what he does, but seeing him go for 15 minutes on a regular basis? When did that happen, aside from a few of his tag title runs?

Beyond the famed Ortonlock and his nifty backbreaker, he's about as rounded as any one of a dozen guys in the locker room.

New rule, if all you can talk about is a WWE guy's moveset your argument is null and void. Seriously, pretty much everyone in the WWE follows the same pattern. Angle isn't even close to being an exception. He has stuff that you'd people call "restholds" if someone you disliked used them, then he has a couple of signatures moves and a finisher. He's even been doing the same "fancy posing" for the past 5 years at the same point in every match too.

I don't hate Angle, I hate people ignoring what's right in front of their face. It's okay to be a mark, just realize you're being one. There's no better example then this Sunday. Angle uses three headlocks, about 78 double leg takedowns, and lays on Orton's back a few times and that's cool, but Orton uses a headlock and he's a boring piece of crap. Right.

Again, main point isn't that Kurt sucks, but that more and more his gimmick is being confused with the actual wrestling he does.

[Gaz]

Hell no. Mark Henry didn't even get that long on the main event of a PPV with Angle. Let's not just start making crap up. And Big Show is quite good at what he does, but seeing him go for 15 minutes on a regular basis? When did that happen, aside from a few of his tag title runs?



New rule, if all you can talk about is a WWE guy's moveset your argument is null and void. Seriously, pretty much everyone in the WWE follows the same pattern. Angle isn't even close to being an exception. He has stuff that you'd people call "restholds" if someone you disliked used them, then he has a couple of signatures moves and a finisher. He's even been doing the same "fancy posing" for the past 5 years at the same point in every match too.

I don't hate Angle, I hate people ignoring what's right in front of their face. It's okay to be a mark, just realize you're being one. There's no better example then this Sunday. Angle uses three headlocks, about 78 double leg takedowns, and lays on Orton's back a few times and that's cool, but Orton uses a headlock and he's a boring piece of crap. Right.

Again, main point isn't that Kurt sucks, but that more and more his gimmick is being confused with the actual wrestling he does.

Difference. Kurt's proved he CAN wrestle. Randy hasn't. He's OK, never said he's awful, but he doesn't deserve the spot he has. On top of that there's his attitude, and ignore the news-sites and dirtsheets if you will, but he got suspended for a reason.

[mistervader]

You gotta love the fact that the fans chanted "Thank You Edge" when Edge speared Cena in that match. :p

[marshal99]

Don't forget you and Joe.:p

Nah , i don't hate Joe but i do think he's kind of overrated. :D At least TNA has kept him strong and starting to give him different opponents now , rather than have him going over daniels and AJ all the time as well as squashing sharkboy and all the other x-division spotmonkies that they fed him from time to time on impact.

I do admit that i'm intrigued by the matchup between fatjoe and steiner. ;)

[JohnPopa]

As nonsensical as arguments from the outside about who has or hasn't 'earned their spot' are, I really don't see how Orton's been over-pushed. I can't think of the last time he's had a bad match with anyone, his matches with 'Taker were consistently excellent and he's a better opponent for Mysterio than Angle has been (seriously, Orton and Mysterio's timing together is amazing.) His face run fell flat and he wasn't ready for that but he makes a great arrogant heel and has consistently delivered in that role.

[Leslie Lee III]

Difference. Kurt's proved he CAN wrestle. Randy hasn't.

So his matches against Foley, RVD, Benoit, Taker, Christian, Rey, HHH, Edge and Angle just this past Sunday mean nothing? Come on.

[Gaz]

So his matches against Foley, RVD, Benoit, Taker, Christian, Rey, HHH, Edge and Angle just this past Sunday mean nothing? Come on.
Foley's pretty much the only true standout of those for me. Seriously, I don't remember any of those except the Angle and Rey ones and that's due to those being this year.

[Leslie Lee III]

Foley's pretty much the only true standout of those for me. Seriously, I don't remember any of those except the Angle and Rey ones and that's due to those being this year.

Well, "I don't remember" is not a very strong argument against a wrestler's ability. You might not have even seen those matches, and that's okay. But I have and remember them and say Orton has more than proven his in-ring ability.

[Dennis K]

I can remember watching a great RVD vs. Orton match awhile back on RAW.

[Lord of Denial]

Orton has had some good matches. But he also wrestles guy's that are known for making other people look better. Angle, Benoit are known for being able to pull 4 or 5 star matches out of guy's that are otherwise less than stellar.

There was an old joke in WCW that prime Ric Flair could wrestle a mop and it would earn match of the year.

Has Orton had good matchs which he can take a share of the glory for? Yes But he has also been in some great match where the guy across the ring has carried him and made the match great.

[Alex]

Angle vs Orton was a great match and proved, with no doubt, that Orton > Angle right now. I was bored until Orton took over, Angle trying to squash someone with mat wrestling is really, really dull. Let's face it, he's no Alex Shelley.
I agree with you, but only when he is wrestling someone else who can't do it.

[JohnPopa]

Just because someone has a good match with a Benoit or Angle, doesn't mean Benoit or Angle are carrying the match. Orton doesn't get carried to good matches with those guys, he HAS good matches with those guys. They're not spending entire matches working around him, trying to compensate for his weaknesses. He's right with them. It's not being carried every time someone's in the ring with a supposedly better wrestler. Benoit's a much better wrestler than Booker T he doesn't 'carry' Booker, they just work well together, even though Booker has a more limited scope of moves.

[cactusmaac]

I don't hate Angle, I hate people ignoring what's right in front of their face. It's okay to be a mark, just realize you're being one. There's no better example then this Sunday. Angle uses three headlocks, about 78 double leg takedowns, and lays on Orton's back a few times and that's cool, but Orton uses a headlock and he's a boring piece of crap. Right.

Again, main point isn't that Kurt sucks, but that more and more his gimmick is being confused with the actual wrestling he does.

Angle's proved himself in the ring repeatedly. He gets cut slack now because of his stellar record both in and out of it and because he's in constant pain nowadays.

Half a dozen people in the undercard could have done Orton's job better. Kennedy, JBL and Edge are worlds ahead in every category. Booker T and Finlay get better heel reactions. Orton still can't get significant heat after prominent programs with Triple H, Undertaker, Benoit and Foley. He has good matches with great workers but can't carry bouts himself.

He may amount to something after he's left to his own devices in the undercard for a few years.

[Alex L]

I'm now of the belief that the majority of the fans in the Ballroom weren't ECW fans -- they were WWECW fans who behaved as they expected old ECW fans to behave -- a caricature of the old ECW fans.

"Let's boo Cena, because that's what an ECW fan would do!"

Like him or not, Cena delivered far and beyond any of his recent WWE efforts and the Ballroom would have none of it.

"Cena can't wrestle!
*drop toehold floatover into STF*


...uh...Same old Sh*t!
*slingshots RVD into chair, smashes Van Dam with steel steps*


...uh....hm...um...Cena Sucks!

[Leslie Lee III]

Angle's proved himself in the ring repeatedly. He gets cut slack now because of his stellar record both in and out of it and because he's in constant pain nowadays.

As I said, this is a mark/gimmick thing and not an actually judging what happens in a match thing. If you want to operate on that level fine, just be honest about it and don't try to tell me that Angle laying on top of Orton and using 3 headlocks is something spectacular, but Orton is boring crap. It's markish hypocrisy.

Half a dozen people in the undercard could have done Orton's job better. Kennedy, JBL and Edge are worlds ahead in every category. Booker T and Finlay get better heel reactions. Orton still can't get significant heat after prominent programs with Triple H, Undertaker, Benoit and Foley. He has good matches with great workers but can't carry bouts himself.

Ken Kennedy? JBL? Are you serious? Again, Kennedy is another example of confusing a mildly entertaining gimmick and a neat finisher with talent. He's not had a single match in the WWE within a mile of great. I'm a huge JBL supporter, but he's nowhere near as exciting to watch as Orton in the ring.

And I love how, on the internet, you just say someone you dislike doesn't get heat and it's true. He's over as a heel in spite of having his character destroyed by HHH. He was so over as a heel that he got cheered in Canada when he beat Benoit clean for the World Title. Hell, he's so over that sometimes analytical wrestlers fans go into full on mark mode when discussing him online.

Just because someone has a good match with a Benoit or Angle, doesn't mean Benoit or Angle are carrying the match. Orton doesn't get carried to good matches with those guys, he HAS good matches with those guys. They're not spending entire matches working around him, trying to compensate for his weaknesses. He's right with them. It's not being carried every time someone's in the ring with a supposedly better wrestler. Benoit's a much better wrestler than Booker T he doesn't 'carry' Booker, they just work well together, even though Booker has a more limited scope of moves.

Right. It takes two and after years having good to exceptional matches you'd think he'd avoid being accused of being "carried" the entire time.

Orton has had some good matches. But he also wrestles guy's that are known for making other people look better.

Like RVD and Undertaker? Come on. The argument may be valid in isolated incidents, but after years of turning in good matches you just have to admit the guy has talent. No, he hasn't wrestled a bunch of crap guys, but neither has Angle or Benoit or Rey or Edge. It takes two.

[Jamal]

I like Orton, he's grew on me over the last year so this is not me talking crap just to do it, but has anybody else noticed that Orton has gotten much bigger since his time off? If so do you think it's him working out harder or the juice?

[JohnPopa]

To me, Orton looks about the same maybe a little thicker, just less cut, which is probably from getting off the juice, more than from being on it.

[cactusmaac]

As I said, this is a mark/gimmick thing and not an actually judging what happens in a match thing. If you want to operate on that level fine, just be honest about it and don't try to tell me that Angle laying on top of Orton and using 3 headlocks is something spectacular, but Orton is boring crap. It's markish hypocrisy.

Well, Orton is boring crap, but no, I didn't think that match was particularly special.


Ken Kennedy? JBL? Are you serious? Again, Kennedy is another example of confusing a mildly entertaining gimmick and a neat finisher with talent. He's not had a single match in the WWE within a mile of great.

Well duh, he made his Smackdown debut in August, got injured in November and so far has had about one PPV match, against Bob Holly.

What Kennedy has is a cocky heel character that's actually entertaining and gets great crowd responses. Maybe after he's worked programs with Rey, Angle, Benoit, Undertaker, Triple H and Foley, we'll be able to make a judgement as to how good a worker he is compared to Orton. So far I'd say Kennedy's recent match with CM Punk in OVW impressed me a lot more than Orton\Benoit, Orton\HBK and Orton\Foley.

I'm a huge JBL supporter, but he's nowhere near as exciting to watch as Orton in the ring.

Well OK, I'd be the last guy to criticise somebody's taste in wrestlers but all I see in Orton's bouts are somebody who gets beat on for the bulk of the match, seems kind of lost when he actually gets the opportunity to put some offence in and hits a couple of surprise RKOs for the win.

JBL's hit and miss in his matches, but his fights with Cena, Rey and Eddie were great brawls. His character and promos are fantastic. His mic-work ensured that the program with Rey post-WM went far better than Orton's efforts pre-WM.

And like I said, Edge>>>>>>>>>>Orton.


And I love how, on the internet, you just say someone you dislike doesn't get heat and it's true. He's over as a heel in spite of having his character destroyed by HHH.

How did Triple H "destroy" his character? It seemed more like his face run was a bad flop thanks to the lack of any build and they had to take the belt off him.


He was so over as a heel that he got cheered in Canada when he beat Benoit clean for the World Title.

Was that before or after Benoit climbed back in the ring and shook his hand?


Hell, he's so over that sometimes analytical wrestlers fans go into full on mark mode when discussing him online.

Like who? I know Foley went to the WWE for the idea of the program between himself and Orton, because he felt he was likely to become the next breakthrough star. I haven't seen much praise for him recently.


Right. It takes two and after years having good to exceptional matches you'd think he'd avoid being accused of being "carried" the entire time.

Like RVD and Undertaker? Come on. The argument may be valid in isolated incidents, but after years of turning in good matches you just have to admit the guy has talent. No, he hasn't wrestled a bunch of crap guys, but neither has Angle or Benoit or Rey or Edge. It takes two.

He isn't terrible but there are so many better options around.

[Super Sonic]

So, that One Night Stand.....I heard other wrestlers were there too. =P

[Super Sonic]

I'm now of the belief that the majority of the fans in the Ballroom weren't ECW fans -- they were WWECW fans who behaved as they expected old ECW fans to behave -- a caricature of the old ECW fans.

"Let's boo Cena, because that's what an ECW fan would do!"

Like him or not, Cena delivered far and beyond any of his recent WWE efforts and the Ballroom would have none of it.

"Cena can't wrestle!
*drop toehold floatover into STF*


...uh...Same old Sh*t!
*slingshots RVD into chair, smashes Van Dam with steel steps*


...uh....hm...um...Cena Sucks!


Like it or not, these are the new ECW fans, expect more of it.

[Super Sonic]

I like Angle as much as the next guy, but I prefer his WWE style, suplexing the fuck out of people, angle slams, ankle locks. =(

I mean, i want to see him do some awesome shit like the two man german suplex at WM 22.

[titanfan]

I'm now of the belief that the majority of the fans in the Ballroom weren't ECW fans -- they were WWECW fans who behaved as they expected old ECW fans to behave -- a caricature of the old ECW fans.

First off, even as a non-true ECW fan I wasn't that impressed with the "new" Cena.

Secondly, he was the heel for goodness sakes. So in that sense, he could have done a shooting star press from the top turn buckle onto 3 stacked flaming tables with barb wire and thumb tacks--and probably still would have been boo'd. (Although I would have loved to see it--I was really hoping he'd totally abandon the WWE style during this match and do something truly athletic....)

The fans (imho) showed respect when he went out to fight into the crowd.

[Dennis K]

It may be interesting to see what he does on tonight's debut ECW broadcast on SciFi

[Jamal]

If he would have done that Shooting star thru flaming table thing he would have got a big cheer from the old ecw fan. They gave props when props were due.

I think a lot of the newer fans are guys that never got the chance to see the old ecw and are tring to see what they missed. It's a shame that it's not the maverick company of old. Well see if they got a little of the same fire back tonight?

[StoneGold]

Super E: Don't lie, this is you, isn't it?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sYXnFNKwPSw&feature=Discussed&page=2&t=t&f=b

Anyways, as to the fan base, I think it might also have something to do with it being the first regular ECW show. For the old fan base, there's a lot of pent up aggression. Like Lita said, they don't get laid that often.

Besides, ECW never had the top star at one of the other promotions fighting in their arena. Saying they cheered, oh, let's say Bam Bam Bigelow because he put on a decent show isn't the same as if, oh, let's say Kevin Nash circa 1996 showed up and started doing Fujiwara armbars.



I was originally going to write Hogan, but Hogan might have been able to get away with it. As much as the die-hard wrestling fan is supposed to hate Hogan... let's face it, he's the Hulkster. Whatchya gonna do?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I'm now of the belief that the majority of the fans in the Ballroom weren't ECW fans -- they were WWECW fans who behaved as they expected old ECW fans to behave -- a caricature of the old ECW fans.

"Let's boo Cena, because that's what an ECW fan would do!"

Like him or not, Cena delivered far and beyond any of his recent WWE efforts and the Ballroom would have none of it.

"Cena can't wrestle!
*drop toehold floatover into STF*


...uh...Same old Sh*t!
*slingshots RVD into chair, smashes Van Dam with steel steps*


...uh....hm...um...Cena Sucks!


ECW fans are some of the most vocal , angry type of fans possible. Trust me....old time fans were there and got newer fans into the chants.

" Cena Swallows "

" Orton Sucks D-ck "

" Orton's A P-ssy ! "

Those were some old ones. Now the " You Can't Wrestle " and "Over-Rated " are pretty damn new . Those shocked me.

[Gaz]

ECW fans are some of the most vocal , angry type of fans possible. Trust me....old time fans were there and got newer fans into the chants.

" Cena Swallows "

" Orton Sucks D-ck "

" Orton's A P-ssy ! "

Those were some old ones. Now the " You Can't Wrestle " and "Over-Rated " are pretty damn new . Those shocked me.
Not to go all Dan, but can the Impact Zone sue for the "Angle's gonna kill you"?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Super E: Don't lie, this is you, isn't it?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sYXnFNKwPSw&feature=Discussed&page=2&t=t&f=b

Anyways, as to the fan base, I think it might also have something to do with it being the first regular ECW show. For the old fan base, there's a lot of pent up aggression. Like Lita said, they don't get laid that often.

ECW Fans don't take no sh-t. Orton didn't get booed for the fact he's not an ok wrestler. He got booed because ECW fans usually foolow the internet and know he's a Class 1 D-ckhead and decided he should be razzled. And he was at times.

Besides, ECW never had the top star at one of the other promotions fighting in their arena. Saying they cheered, oh, let's say Bam Bam Bigelow because he put on a decent show isn't the same as if, oh, let's say Kevin Nash circa 1996 showed up and started doing Fujiwara armbars.

Lawler was pretty damn close to what your describing in 1997. He came in and jumped Tommy Dreamer after his final match against Raven. Fans nearly rioted and started tossing trash at him. ( I have the tape which is funny to see)


I was originally going to write Hogan, but Hogan might have been able to get away with it. As much as the die-hard wrestling fan is supposed to hate Hogan... let's face it, he's the Hulkster. Whatchya gonna do?

Hogan would get some laughs had he showed at the ECW Arena in the late 90's. Austin was doing the whole " Stevemaniac " line and it was pure comedy. Odds are had Hogan showed people would have erupted into laughter.

Now for pure speculation in 1999 , Warrior called Paul Heyman about doing an ECW appearance. Heyman was gonna do something completely 100% different with him and was gonna line it up. Warrior balked at the proposed storyline and it never happened.

[Tony Bang]

Not to go all Dan, but can the Impact Zone sue for the "Angle's gonna kill you"?


I remember "Sandman's gonna kill you" chants before Joe.

[Super Sonic]

Isn't the original Tazz is gonna kill you? That's the earliest one I know of, against Shande Douglas.

Also it was obvious some old ECW fans were there, during the Orton/Angle match did you here the "Hepititus" chant?

[Lord of Denial]

I heard about Orton harrassing a WWE Diva so bad on a plane that she quit the company.

Anyone know if that is true?

Which Diva was it?

[Leslie Lee III]

I heard about Orton harrassing a WWE Diva so bad on a plane that she quit the company.

Anyone know if that is true?

Which Diva was it?

Amy Weber, and numerous wrestlers "harassed" her. She used to brag about being famous in Japan and when they went they apparently got word that she was famous for being a whore, a literal one. Didn't go over, and it doesn't seem like many took to her attitude either.

WWE wrestlers dislike model/actress who cares nothing about the business and gets hired while their friends with talent are fired and shoved onto WWE.com. I hope no one is shocked by that.

[lboinyamouf4sho]

ECW Fans don't take no sh-t. Orton didn't get booed for the fact he's not an ok wrestler. He got booed because ECW fans usually foolow the internet and know he's a Class 1 D-ckhead and decided he should be razzled. And he was at times.





yes because ECW fans know that if you read it on the internet it must be true.

imo if you can't see that orton is atleast good, then you're just not looking(not you specificly superE), and to say he gets no heat is just crazy. now we're going to bash a guy because he uses a chinlock in his matches??

i thought the ppv was good.

[lboinyamouf4sho]

are there really people out there that believe edge is better than randy??

[lboinyamouf4sho]

something that stood out to me about the ppv was the part with eugene. did anybody see the potential in a heel eugene?? i thought i was seeing the debut of heel eugene right then and there the way he was insulting the crowd while still tryng to act innocent. after seeing RAW i know this isn't the case but eugene could be very interesting as a heel. i see 2 ways they could go with it. both would be something we've never seen before.

1)the more obvious of the 2. it turns out eugene was faking being a retard just to get sympathy from the fans all along so he turns.

2)the more interesting of the 2 imo eugene really is a retard but is xploiting his handicap to do some underhanded shit like win matches and manipulate people.