PDA

View Full Version : So, about the conspiracy theory circulating [CW#1 SPOILERS]



Haunt
06-08-2006, 08:11 PM
some very good points were made on comicboards about how arranged the Stamford Disaster seemed.

here's a link to the thread:
http://www.comicboards.com/mub/view.php?trd=060608145819

i'm sure that most of us wondered what Cobalt Man was doing there. heck, his death was elaborated on in that Avengers vs Thunderbolts mini not too long back (coincidentally, Iron Man was impersonating Cobalt Man). and the villains, besides Nitro, were all obscure enough that the New Warriors might not have noticed if they were fakes. alas, we've already been told that there is no villain behind Civil War. anyways, click on the link and read the thread. the poster makes a good case for this all being a set-up with the Warriors as patsies.

someone on these boards also mentioned that Iron Man knows how to trigger Nitro's explosions. i don't find it believable that Tony would do something like that but it is an awfully big coincidence.

Mobey Wee
06-08-2006, 08:36 PM
someone on these boards also mentioned that Iron Man knows how to trigger Nitro's explosions. i don't find it believable that Tony would do something like that but it is an awfully big coincidence.

wow, that would be dirty. i think i'm going to cry while i ponder this...

Drakenred
06-08-2006, 08:38 PM
Eh Even if they did not plan it that way, they will eventualy retcon in a cynister plot.

Jake V
06-08-2006, 08:41 PM
I wouldn't pin anything on Iron Man, but SHIELD has been known to be corrupt recently, with their secret prisons full of supervillains that were presumed dead and all.

Nitro broke out of the raft, SHIELD's prison, and suddenly had the ability to blow up cities.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was all a plan put together by SHIELD in order to gain control of the supervillains.

After all, Civil War's working title in the begining was SHIELD versus the Superheroes.

Haunt
06-08-2006, 08:59 PM
then that would mean that Nitro is talking to a representative of SHIELD on his cell in that Wolverine preview. i think he knew that Wolverine was coming. could just be a double agent within SHIELD. that would explain the newest Super-Adaptoid.

Insect
06-08-2006, 08:59 PM
Alas, we've already been told that there is no villain behind Civil War.
It could fit - there's not a villain behind this because Iron Man is currently considered a hero.

Whether that's the angle they're going for or not, who knows right now, but it's possible.

Drakenred
06-08-2006, 09:11 PM
It could fit - there's not a villain behind this because Iron Man is currently considered a hero.

Whether that's the angle they're going for or not, who knows right now, but it's possible.
nah

Even if their is no real current Villian besides human nature, this is Marvel comics, they will recon a villain in latter.

Haunt
06-08-2006, 09:25 PM
nah

Even if their is no real current Villian besides human nature, this is Marvel comics, they will recon a villain in latter.


they don't need to retcon anything since the set-up is already there. how do the New Warriors get a tip-off on the location of these supervillains with SHIELD and the Avengers looking for them? why is Cobalt man there? why is he removing his helmet in the apartment, when it's that suit that allows him to live among others? what is Coldheart's motivation for running with this group? why are they so close to a school? if someone did tip them off, why didn't they also notify the school or the local police? how did Nitro become so powerful?

Drakenred
06-08-2006, 10:08 PM
haunt, read the latest New X-men, theis are people who Specialise in creating plotholes so big that it would take a fleet of trucks to deliver all of the No prizes awards they would have to send to cover the errors in just one issue if they were still sending out No prizes!

stillanerd
06-09-2006, 12:15 AM
There's not A villain behind this but rather VILLIANS...but not necessarily super-villains.

Remember we've been told that Civil War was going to tie-in to some way to Mark Millar's run on Marvel Knight's Spider-Man? Well, if you recall, the Scorpion revealed to Spidey that there were members of the military-industrial complex and big-business who essentially "created" the super-villains in the Marvel Universe to distract the superheroes from going after them. Well, I'm guessing they were the ones behind the proposal of the Superhero Registration Act, feeling that if the heroes are working for the government then not only would they avoid getting taking down by the superheroes but essentially, they have the heroes in their pocket as part of a larger scheme to essentially take control of the united states government.

However, they needed some event to make sure that the act gets passed. Enter Nitro. After they arrange the breakout from the Raft, as well as a bunch of flunkies that impersonate Speedfreak, Coldheart, and Cobalt Man (notice they didn't put up much of a challenge?) and set them up in a safe house in Stamford. Then, an "annoymous" tipster contacts the producers that airs the New Warriors Reality TV show about Nitro's location and the Warriors respond. Of course, we know what happens next. After Nitro is done, he calls his contact and tells them "It's done, now what about our deal?" Of course, the person that hired him renigs. This leads to what's going in Wolverine with Tony Stark (who, while aware of the "shadow government" for lack of a better term, does not know they've orchestrated the Stamford event) telling Logan to go after Nitro in exchange for not being branded as a criminal. But again, it's another set-up to have both Wolverine and Nitro kill each other, thus removing two big headaches. And who is the person who arranges all this, who would have access to the higher escheleons of government and the military industrial complex?

Why the current leader of S.H.I.E.L.D. Commander Maria Hill, of course. After all, what exactly do we know about her other than she was born in Chicago (which has traditionally been popularized as a center of organized crime, after all). Perhaps she, thanks to these "shadow government" types that created the super-villains, arranged for her placement as head of S.H.I.E.L.D.? Yes, I know it's cliched but hey, in the world of comic books, and especially with regards to Mark Millar, if there's anything worse than the government it's cooperate America. See, Joe Q can still say that no single "supervillain" or single "mastermind" was behind Civil War. Just like Civil War would be "fair" to both sides. Course, I could be wrong.

Jake V
06-09-2006, 12:19 AM
Nitro never got released, he was one of the escapees that broke out of the Raft in the opening arc of New Avengers.

stillanerd
06-09-2006, 12:21 AM
Ah, but what if the escape from the Raft was made possible by the "shadow government" Gee, is that a black helicopter I hear. :)

Anyway, thanks for the correction.

Jake V
06-09-2006, 12:29 AM
Ah, but what if the escape from the Raft was made possible by the "shadow government" Gee, is that a black helicopter I hear. :)

Anyway, thanks for the correction.
I'm not saying your theory is completely off, SHIELD could have got to him after he escaped. They're probably the ones who augmented his powers so he could have such a large blast radius, as well.

As for the "both sides are equal" thing, I don't think they include SHIELD in that. If SHIELD is portrayed as a "shoot-first-ask-questions-later" kind of outfit, it's consistent characterization if anyhing. I don't believe they're representative of the pro-registration side, they clearly have their own agenda that has been in place ever since Fury disappeared.

Iron Man and the other superheroes on the pro-registration side will probably remain heroic with understandable, noble intentions.

SHIELD are the bad guys, as far as I can tell.

stillanerd
06-09-2006, 12:39 AM
I'm not saying your theory is completely off, SHIELD could have got to him after he escaped. They're probably the ones who augmented his powers so he could have such a large blast radius, as well.

As for the "both sides are equal" thing, I don't think they include SHIELD in that. If SHIELD is portrayed as a "shoot-first-ask-questions-later" kind of outfit, it's consistent characterization if anyhing. I don't believe they're representative of the pro-registration side, they clearly have their own agenda that has been in place ever since Fury disappeared.

Iron Man and the other superheroes on the pro-registration side will probably remain heroic with understandable, noble intentions.

SHIELD are the bad guys, as far as I can tell.

Well, Iron Man's tactics have been pretty questionable as of late (chalk it up to being infected with Extremis probably) and I agree S.H.I.E.L.D. are the bad guys, but they ARE representing and are the main enforcers of registration after all, so I still think the deck is pretty stacked in favoring anti-registration. Even so, you make a good point.

Jake V
06-09-2006, 12:45 AM
Well, Iron Man's tactics have been pretty questionable as of late (chalk it up to being infected with Extremis probably) and I agree S.H.I.E.L.D. are the bad guys, but they ARE representing and are the main enforcers of registration after all, so I still think the deck is pretty stacked in favoring anti-registration. Even so, you make a good point.
I'm fairly ready to write off the current Iron Man arc completely, given that Nick Fury and Dugan are hanging around.

I'd be pretty disappointed if they pulled a Hal Jordan with Iron Man and decided to make him do horribly violent things, then blame it all on something else, remove that something else, and return Tony to some boring status quo.

I really liked the idea of Extremis.

stillanerd
06-09-2006, 12:50 AM
I'm fairly ready to write off the current Iron Man arc completely, given that Nick Fury and Dugan are hanging around.

I'd be pretty disappointed if they pulled a Hal Jordan with Iron Man and decided to make him do horribly violent things, then blame it all on something else, remove that something else, and return Tony to some boring status quo.

I really liked the idea of Extremis.

Yeah, it definately updated Tony in terms of the Iron Man armor being more nanotech based, but you know that if Iron Man goes too far in Civil War, like torturing Captain America or something (yes, I believe the answer to that particular Civil War question in the Civil War quiz is "C") and results in negative backlash, then Marvel has a convenient out to explain it away.

CMBMOOL
06-09-2006, 07:48 AM
There's not A villain behind this but rather VILLIANS...but not necessarily super-villains.

Remember we've been told that Civil War was going to tie-in to some way to Mark Millar's run on Marvel Knight's Spider-Man? Well, if you recall, the Scorpion revealed to Spidey that there were members of the military-industrial complex and big-business who essentially "created" the super-villains in the Marvel Universe to distract the superheroes from going after them. Well, I'm guessing they were the ones behind the proposal of the Superhero Registration Act, feeling that if the heroes are working for the government then not only would they avoid getting taking down by the superheroes but essentially, they have the heroes in their pocket as part of a larger scheme to essentially take control of the united states government.

However, they needed some event to make sure that the act gets passed. Enter Nitro. After they arrange the breakout from the Raft, as well as a bunch of flunkies that impersonate Speedfreak, Coldheart, and Cobalt Man (notice they didn't put up much of a challenge?) and set them up in a safe house in Stamford. Then, an "annoymous" tipster contacts the producers that airs the New Warriors Reality TV show about Nitro's location and the Warriors respond. Of course, we know what happens next. After Nitro is done, he calls his contact and tells them "It's done, now what about our deal?" Of course, the person that hired him renigs. This leads to what's going in Wolverine with Tony Stark (who, while aware of the "shadow government" for lack of a better term, does not know they've orchestrated the Stamford event) telling Logan to go after Nitro in exchange for not being branded as a criminal. But again, it's another set-up to have both Wolverine and Nitro kill each other, thus removing two big headaches. And who is the person who arranges all this, who would have access to the higher escheleons of government and the military industrial complex?

Why the current leader of S.H.I.E.L.D. Commander Maria Hill, of course. After all, what exactly do we know about her other than she was born in Chicago (which has traditionally been popularized as a center of organized crime, after all). Perhaps she, thanks to these "shadow government" types that created the super-villains, arranged for her placement as head of S.H.I.E.L.D.? Yes, I know it's cliched but hey, in the world of comic books, and especially with regards to Mark Millar, if there's anything worse than the government it's cooperate America. See, Joe Q can still say that no single "supervillain" or single "mastermind" was behind Civil War. Just like Civil War would be "fair" to both sides. Course, I could be wrong.


Your theory makes a lot a sense, and also remember that Civil War Panel in WW Philly, how Civil War #5 will reveal the Villains part in this war. :(

Red Lotus
06-09-2006, 08:13 AM
I can see it now. Iron Man sets up the NW by using his contacts and gives them a tip about the bad guys. He knows that Speedball and the rest of the team will be in over their head and that the out come will force the SHRA into law. With all the heroes forced to register to become super power Government agents he can finally take his rightful place as the head of GOSH (Government Of Super Heroes). :D


You know I joking said this after Civil War came out.. It would be shocking if it did happen. Iron Man looks like the bad guy to me. But I dont think Marvel would take it so far to make him stage the whole thing.

Haunt
06-09-2006, 08:31 AM
Nitro never got released, he was one of the escapees that broke out of the Raft in the opening arc of New Avengers.


so it seems. but, supposedly, a representative of the Savageland (which SHIELD was exploiting at the time) hired Electro (a seriously powered up version) to short out the Raft. now, supposedly, that was to free Sauron. but what if that was just a decoy? the Avengers run off to the Savageland and Nitro runs the opposite direction; back to his employers. and, not to bring Iron Man back into this, but look how quickly he takes down Electro when the Avengers catch up to him. Electro definately doesn't seem to be at the power level that he was when he shut down the Raft. did Tony know this? and was the opening arc really about returning Sauron to the Savageland?




Why the current leader of S.H.I.E.L.D. Commander Maria Hill, of course. After all, what exactly do we know about her other than she was born in Chicago (which has traditionally been popularized as a center of organized crime, after all). Perhaps she, thanks to these "shadow government" types that created the super-villains, arranged for her placement as head of S.H.I.E.L.D.? Yes, I know it's cliched but hey, in the world of comic books, and especially with regards to Mark Millar, if there's anything worse than the government it's cooperate America. See, Joe Q can still say that no single "supervillain" or single "mastermind" was behind Civil War. Just like Civil War would be "fair" to both sides. Course, I could be wrong.

Commander Hill seems more like a pawn than a mastermind to me. i mentioned, before, that she was completely unaware of what was going on at SWORD; the space branch of SHIELD. and Agent Brand treated her like an underling. even Daisy Johnson has higher level clearance.

P.S. how do you know that Maria Hill is from Chicago? i'm curious since i don't know anything about her. btw, it's the Maggia who are located in Chicago. Vision was spying on them at one point.

Exo
06-09-2006, 09:15 AM
not to bring Iron Man back into this, but look how quickly he takes down Electro when the Avengers catch up to him.

Ironman had prepared himself before the fight. He simply detained Electro inside a force field. Nothing more. Electro got overwhelmed by the sudden turn of events, adding Luke Cages yearning to beat him up, and slipped into unconsciousness.

But I do get the bad feeling that Ironman may be more involved in Civil War than Marvel has let us on.

stillanerd
06-09-2006, 11:08 AM
Commander Hill seems more like a pawn than a mastermind to me. i mentioned, before, that she was completely unaware of what was going on at SWORD; the space branch of SHIELD. and Agent Brand treated her like an underling. even Daisy Johnson has higher level clearance.

I'm not saying she's a mastermind but rather a go-between for the "shadow government" that created and fianced the supervillains, and that thru their macinations they arranged for Hill to be planted into S.H.I.E.L.D. and have her rise up in the ranks. So I guess, yeah, she's a tool, but a very effective one.


P.S. how do you know that Maria Hill is from Chicago? i'm curious since i don't know anything about her. btw, it's the Maggia who are located in Chicago. Vision was spying on them at one point.

From this article in wikipedia:


Beyond the fact of her birth in Chicago(per Secret War # 5), little is known of Maria Hill prior to her appointment to her current posting within S.H.I.E.L.D..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Hill

One can assume that since she was born there, she's from there as well.

Titanium
06-09-2006, 02:53 PM
Clearly, the mastermind behind Civil War is Tristam Silver.

Haunt
06-09-2006, 02:57 PM
I'm not saying she's a mastermind but rather a go-between for the "shadow government" that created and fianced the supervillains, and that thru their macinations they arranged for Hill to be planted into S.H.I.E.L.D. and have her rise up in the ranks. So I guess, yeah, she's a tool, but a very effective one.



From this article in wikipedia:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Hill

One can assume that since she was born there, she's from there as well.


neat. her wiki entry must be new. i wonder which hero is going to have the honor of punching her lights out.

Rorschach4100
06-09-2006, 03:13 PM
I have the answer to it all! One word.
SUBLIME!

stillanerd
06-09-2006, 04:26 PM
neat. her wiki entry must be new. i wonder which hero is going to have the honor of punching her lights out.

She-Hulk comes to mind, or, if not a hero:

SPIDER-MAN: Your days are numbered lady.
AGENT HILL: Oh, come on now. You wouldn't hit a lady would you?
*Hill gets a tap on her shoulder, turns around and sees it's Mary Jane
MARY JANE: Hello...
*SMACK* Punches Agent Hill in the face, knocking her flat on her ass.
MARY JANE: That's for having my husband mind-rapped...
And this is because you're a stuck-up, arrogant, self-righteous, bitch.
*kicks Agent Hill in the stomach, where Hill groans and moans in pain. Spidey and MJ exchange a pregnant pause.
MARY JANE: What?
SPIDER-MAN: I am SO turned on right now.


I have the answer to it all! One word.
SUBLIME!

:D

Jack
06-09-2006, 04:32 PM
I have the answer to it all! One word.
SUBLIME!
It's explainicious!

maniacmatt
06-09-2006, 04:57 PM
Just thought I'd point out that he said no villain behind Civil War not behind the Stamford explosion.

jackolover
05-13-2007, 11:31 PM
I think I have what the CW was.

A pre-orchestrated setup

The Road to CW was pre-arranged senate hearings, that framed the act. For What? Nothing had happened in the MU that was out of the ordinary. So there was no reason to put the SHRA in train.

Then, when the SHRA was framed, all they did is wait for an appropriate incident to trigger the act, and so, the CW.

It looks like Damage Control ran a major campaign to setup the SHRA, and have bid-free contracts for all the damage caused by registered meta's

rZi
05-14-2007, 05:29 AM
wow that is a cool idea, kinda hope it's true...and that everyone else finds out , it's another reason to hate Tony Stark.

Ogrebear
05-14-2007, 06:09 AM
Anyone remember the Conspiracy Mini-Series?

See here (http://www.ffplaza.com/commcenter/articles/Conspiracy.shtml) from some details. Basically the plot outlined major government(s?) involvement in the creation and exploitation of superhumans for example: how do you think Reed Richards was able to sneak onto a base and launch a highly secret rocket without someone in authority being in cahoots?

Now taking that and adding in all the hints that have been floating around and suddenly it all starts to make sence..

I am also reminded of that Exiles issue (#23?) where Iron Man took over the world by proper planning and future thinking... we could be heading that way just in a little more decompressed fashion....

Cthulhudrew
05-14-2007, 08:30 AM
Anyone remember the Conspiracy Mini-Series?

Yes- it was awesome, and highly underrated. I'm disappointed that Abnett didn't get a chance to do more with it, like a followup or something (if only to reveal the mysterious benefactor's identity- I always pegged it as the Thinker myself, but it never got explained).

This post-Civil War time would be a great opportunity to tie that story into the MU properly.

Psyco panda
05-14-2007, 08:36 AM
Nah. Control has way too many issues, many due to communications, that would make operating on this scale almost impossible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Get_Smart
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_of_Silence