Haditha massacre

[latuff]

Just another comic strip from Tales of Iraq War (http://tales-of-iraq-war.blogspot.com)series.

http://dc.indymedia.org/usermedia/image/7/large/tales_of_iraq_war_3.jpg

[JeffreyWKramer]

Latuff, if you don't watch out, people are gonna typecast your art.

You should branch out some. Maybe do some "Garfield" strips.

[west3man]

That's a bitter pill, but I can't blame you, otherwise.

[BlairH]

Why is the Marine smoking a pipe?

[Wesley Dodds]

Hey, Latuff, you made a mistake.

The captain's smoking a pipe. He should be chomping on a cigar.

Oh, and it's disgusting propaganda. But that's par.

[latuff]

Latuff, if you don't watch out, people are gonna typecast your art.

You should branch out some. Maybe do some "Garfield" strips.

I think it already happened.
But since this comic strips series are related to Iraq war, I plan to make more stories about it. It would be better if I had contact with a veteran for some true combat stories and stuff.

[latuff]

Hey, Latuff, you made a mistake.

The captain's smoking a pipe. He should be chomping on a cigar.

It's a matter of taste...some smoke cigars, others pipes...
And showing a U.S. officer chomping a cigar would sound too cliché.

[Wesley Dodds]

Hey, Latuff, you should do one where Noam Chomsky punches George Bush in the face!

[latuff]

Hey, Latuff, you should do one where Noam Chomsky punches George Bush in the face!

Will keep this suggestion in mind for a future cartoon.
:)

[Noah Johnson]

I, for one, am deeply offended at the ugly, hurtful stereotyping of people who smoke pipes. I'm smoking a pipe while I type this, and I've never massacred innocent people. (Halo doesn't count. Nobody who plays Halo is innocent.)

Also, the cartoon's not that funny. Partly because I heard a guy actually saying a close variant of the punchline at a truck stop a couple days ago.

[latuff]

I, for one, am deeply offended at the ugly, hurtful stereotyping of people who smoke pipes. I'm smoking a pipe while I type this, and I've never massacred innocent people. (Halo doesn't count. Nobody who plays Halo is innocent.)

Also, the cartoon's not that funny. Partly because I heard a guy actually saying a close variant of the punchline at a truck stop a couple days ago.

What exactly did the guy say?

[Noah Johnson]

What exactly did the guy say?
"There's no such thing as a civilian over there."

[latuff]

"There's no such thing as a civilian over there."

You know...while working on comics dialogues, I was thinking that even the most fictional (and brutal) statement can be true in a war scenario...I'm sure you will find soldiers and officers saying "we kill'em before they get old enough to shoot an AK-47 at us".

[Noah Johnson]

You know...while working on comics dialogues, I was thinking that even the most fictional (and brutal) statement can be true in a war scenario...I'm sure you will find soldiers and officers saying "we kill'em before they get old enough to shoot an AK-47 at us".
True, though you should bear in mind that you'll also find soldiers and officers saying "That's utterly wrong, and we have laws against that kind of crap for a REASON."

[latuff]

True, though you should bear in mind that you'll also find soldiers and officers saying "That's utterly wrong, and we have laws against that kind of crap for a REASON."

I dunno...I don't think Lyndie England and her friends at Abu Ghraib prision were afraid of any martial court. They felt themselves confortable to torture inmates. That's why they took photos for fun. Regarding Haditha, if it was not by media coverage, it would be just another forgotten massacre. I can imagine that there are other killings in progress away from any cameraman.

That's the way war goes...

[latuff]

Of course I can't say every man or woman in U.S. forces are responsible for massacres like Haditha. But remember that killing is what war is all about...killing for survive, killing for pleasure...just killings!

[Noah Johnson]

I dunno...I don't think Lyndie England and her friends at Abu Ghraib prision were afraid of any martial court.
Sure, but there's a lot of people in the military, and they don't all think alike.

[latuff]

Sure, but there's a lot of people in the military, and they don't all think alike.

I think the best way to keep your hands clean of blood is keeping yourself away from military service.

[west3man]

Of course I can't say every man or woman in U.S. forces are responsible for massacres like Haditha.
Glad to hear it.

[west3man]

I think the best way to keep your hands clean of blood is keeping yourself away from military service.
Too simplistic.

Sure, without the military, a lot of bloodshed would've been avoided, at times, but, at other times, a lot more blood would've been shed.

[latuff]

Too simplistic.

Sure, without the military, a lot of bloodshed would've been avoided, at times, but, at other times, a lot more blood would've been shed.

Searching for historical records, you will see that armies committed bloodsheds more than avoiding them...

[warspite1805]

Searching for historical records, you will see armies committed bloodsheds more than avoiding them...
Damned thosed Allied Armies in WW2, the Germans only wanyted to go sight seeing

[latuff]

Damned thosed Allied Armies in WW2, the Germans only wanyted to go sight seeing

Without Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine, sightseeing was everything Germans could make in Europe.

[latuff]

Changing of subject, I'd like to know from you...what's best? Color or Black&White comic strips?

[warspite1805]

I prefere black and white, just seems to set a more seroious\darker tone than a coloured one would.

[latuff]

I prefere black and white, just seems to set a more seroious\darker tone than a coloured one would.

Hmmmmmmmmm, it makes sense.
Look at the third panel. Don't you think Iraqi policeman's body movement reminds something satirical? I mean, having in mind those old comics strips of The Phantom and Mandrake, that character sounds like a caricature. In fact, I think it's due to my years making satire stuff. Trying hard to make something more serious.

[latuff]

THIS is really serious, in my opinion:

http://www.tourettesbenefit.com/art/ART_H_046.gif

[warspite1805]

THIS is really serious, in my opinion:

http://www.tourettesbenefit.com/art/ART_H_046.gif


That costume is hidious

[latuff]

That costume is hidious

Nah, forget about the costume...I mean the characters, the faces, the trace itself..

[west3man]

Searching for historical records, you will see that armies committed bloodsheds more than avoiding them...
Sometimes, if one doesn't fight, one will be the victim of violence.

Violence is sometimes necessary, but not always. I believe the same is true of the military.

[latuff]

Sometimes, if one doesn't fight, one will be the victim of violence.

Violence is sometimes necessary, but not always. I believe the same is true of the military.

Color or BW, man?

[JeffreyWKramer]

Color or BW, man?

Color, but change your color palate. Go fluorescent-only - hot pink, neon blue, bright yellow, ultra-violet, etc.

That would give your strips a unique look.

[west3man]

Color or BW, man?
Black & white.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I think the best way to keep your hands clean of blood is keeping yourself away from military service.


I agree. Those Palestinians, for example... they should get rid of their militias, and the Palestinian Authority really shouldn't have armed forces.

[latuff]

I agree. Those Palestinians, for example... they should get rid of their militias, and the Palestinian Authority really shouldn't have armed forces.

If IDF will renounce to their tanks, helicopters, rifles and nuclear weapons, why not?

[latuff]

Color, but change your color palate. Go fluorescent-only - hot pink, neon blue, bright yellow, ultra-violet, etc.

That would give your strips a unique look.

Good idea...perhaps I can paint the uniforms of Marines of hot pink...

[west3man]

Color, but change your color palate. Go fluorescent-only - hot pink, neon blue, bright yellow, ultra-violet, etc.

That would give your strips a unique look.
"Oh no!"

http://my.opera.com/hungryghost/homes/albums/308/OH%20No.JPG
http://my.opera.com/hungryghost/homes/albums/308/OH%20No.JPG

[west3man]

"Oh no!"

http://my.opera.com/hungryghost/homes/albums/308/OH%20No.JPG
http://my.opera.com/hungryghost/homes/albums/308/OH%20No.JPG
There were better "Oh no!'s" (http://www.unc.edu/~reisinge/Max/Images/LG_OhNo.jpg) out there, but that one was just too cute to resist.

[latuff]

There were better "Oh no!'s" (http://www.unc.edu/~reisinge/Max/Images/LG_OhNo.jpg) out there, but that one was just too cute to resist.

Hehehehehehehe!

[latuff]

There were better "Oh no!'s" (http://www.unc.edu/~reisinge/Max/Images/LG_OhNo.jpg) out there, but that one was just too cute to resist.

By the way, what you think of traditional comic strips like Mandrake?
I love that line. So clean, simple...

[latuff]

I simply LOVE Sy Barry style

http://www.lambiek.net/artists/b/barry_sy/barry_sy_phantom1.jpg

[JeffreyWKramer]

By the way, what you think of traditional comic strips like Mandrake?
I love that line. So clean, simple...


It's really not the line style that is the most important thing - it's how the artist uses it. Some people are very effective with a simple, clean line, but a less-skilled artist trying the same thing tends to produce an unfinished-looking product. Other artists include a lot of detail, and utilize lots of shading and crosshatching to good effect, while less-skilled artists employing those same tactics just end up with an over-busy mess.

Me, I like a lot of clean-line artists, *and* I also like a lot of artists who do a lot of rendering. There's room in the world for Alex Toth *and* Joe Kubert *and* JH Williams *and* Bill Sienkiewicz *and* Mike Mignola *and* ...

[JeffreyWKramer]

"Oh no!"

http://my.opera.com/hungryghost/homes/albums/308/OH%20No.JPG
http://my.opera.com/hungryghost/homes/albums/308/OH%20No.JPG
I thought you liked the look of classic books. Doesn't the coloring schemes Marvel was using in the late 80s/early 90s do it for you?

[JeffreyWKramer]

Good idea...perhaps I can paint the uniforms of Marines of hot pink...


That would be part of the "different look" thing, yeah.

[latuff]

It's really not the line style that is the most important thing - it's how the artist uses it. Some people are very effective with a simple, clean line, but a less-skilled artist trying the same thing tends to produce an unfinished-looking product. Other artists include a lot of detail, and utilize lots of shading and crosshatching to good effect, while less-skilled artists employing those same tactics just end up with an over-busy mess.

Me, I like a lot of clean-line artists, *and* I also like a lot of artists who do a lot of rendering. There's room in the world for Alex Toth *and* Joe Kubert *and* JH Williams *and* Bill Sienkiewicz *and* Mike Mignola *and* ...

I think after years making satirical cartoons with no worries about perfect human anatomy depitction, I'm facing some dificults to achieve a more realistic style like Sy Barry. Anyway, I think "Tales of Iraq War" will be a good opportunity for me to practice.

[warspite1805]

Nah, forget about the costume...I mean the characters, the faces, the trace itself..

The faces and general artwork is great biut the costummes distract me to pay sufficient attention to the general artwork.

[Iangould]

I agree. Those Palestinians, for example... they should get rid of their militias, and the Palestinian Authority really shouldn't have armed forces.

I'm syre they'll be happy to comply as soon as Israel sets the example.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I'm syre they'll be happy to comply as soon as Israel sets the example.


But if the best way to avoid getting blood on your hands is to avoid military service, it should be a good thing for the Palestinian things to do regardless what the Israelis do, right?

[west3man]

I thought you liked the look of classic books. Doesn't the coloring schemes Marvel was using in the late 80s/early 90s do it for you?
Coloring was hit-n-miss back then, I thought. Either way, I never thought they'd be classified as, "fluorescent-only - hot pink, neon blue, bright yellow, ultra-violet, etc. "

[Dennis K]

I think the best way to keep your hands clean of blood is keeping yourself away from military service.


But it's okay to strap a bomb to yourself and blow up a bunch of civilians though?

[Iangould]

But it's okay to strap a bomb to yourself and blow up a bunch of civilians though?

No, that's horrible and wrong.

The only decent way to kill a bunch of innocent civilians is with an air-to-ground missile.

[latuff]

But if the best way to avoid getting blood on your hands is to avoid military service, it should be a good thing for the Palestinian things to do regardless what the Israelis do, right?

If we are talking about a peace process, it must to be a two-way road.
Since Israel is the major military power in the Middle East, it would be fair if IDF was disarmed. But, of course, I know your point was only provocation, that same argument towards Israel versus Palestinians we're already aware about. Even this thread is not related to Palestine but, since I'm openly pro-Palestinian, some people will always find a chance to make a provocative remark towards me. No problem, I know this tactic already.
:)

[Corrina]

If we are talking about a peace process, it must to be a two-way road.


Martin Luther King and Gandhi would disagree with you. Nelson Mandala was not opposed to violence in quite the same way but he was very clear that civilian targets were a bad thing.

[latuff]

Martin Luther King and Gandhi would disagree with you. Nelson Mandala was not opposed to violence in quite the same way but he was very clear that civilian targets were a bad thing.

Point me only a single of my threads or comments where I support civilians being targeted.

[BlairH]

Since Israel is the major military power in the Middle East, it would be fair if IDF was disarmed.
Israel has good reason for being the major military power in the Mid-East. Back in the ol' days when Israel was a weak, young Country, her Arab neighbours invaded and tried to snuff out the Jewish State.

Sure enough times have changed and Israel's neighbours have perhaps learned from previous defeats, but do you really think Israel would survive if it's armed forces were to disband?

[latuff]

but do you really think Israel would survive if it's armed forces were to disband?

If we are talking about a fair peace agreement, then both sides must to be disarmed, specially the strong one.

[BlairH]

If we are talking about a fair peace agreement, then both sides must to be disarmed, specially the strong one.
Not a fan of the "Arms keep peace" Latin proverb eh?

[latuff]

Not a fan of the "Arms keep peace" Latin proverb eh?

As a humanist I believe that without arms and armed souls, we could live a better life...
But look...have you read the previous comments about comics strips?
I'd like to hear from you abaout it, since I'm now involved in this stuff.
What you prefer? Color or BW comic strips?
Do you know old comics trips drawn by Sy Barry?

[BlairH]

Color or BW comic strips?
Going B&W only would allow you to do some interesting things. I particularly liked your "Thought Police" cartoon from a while back, and, if I recall correctley it was b&w yes?

[latuff]

Going B&W only would allow you to do some interesting things. I particularly liked your "Thought Police" cartoon from a while back, and, if I recall correctley it was b&w yes?

Yes, correct.
I have another story wrote for "Tales of Iraq War" series.
This time I will make it BW and see how it works.

[JeffreyWKramer]

If we are talking about a peace process, it must to be a two-way road. Since Israel is the major military power in the Middle East, it would be fair if IDF was disarmed.

Except you're changing the subject. You pretty much said military service is wrong, period. Not "it's okay to have serve if the other side has a military," or anything like that. Your initial statement on the matter was pretty much that it was a bad thing, period. So, if that's the case, it should be wrong for your favored folk, the Palestinians to do it.

Or, do you now disagree with your initial statement?

[latuff]

Except you're changing the subject. You pretty much said military service is wrong, period. Not "it's okay to have serve if the other side has a military," or anything like that. Your initial statement on the matter was pretty much that it was a bad thing, period. So, if that's the case, it should be wrong for your favored folk, the Palestinians to do it.

Or, do you now disagree with your initial statement?

Right now I'm devoting my time and attention to comics strips...if you want to talk about Palestinians, wait for a new thread on them.

[Brian Cronin]

If you want to ignore these threads, feel free to do so, but if you post here, post here civilly.

That doesn't mean you cannot criticize the artist, but just do so civilly. So long as latuff is willing to interact with you folks, I'm fine with these threads existing here.

So any flame-baiting will not work to get rid of the thread, if that is, indeed, anyone's intention.

-Brian

[west3man]

Right now I'm devoting my time and attention to comics strips...if you want to talk about Palestinians, wait for a new thread on them.
JWK's not just talking Palestinians and his point seem valid, to me.

Obviously, you're welcome to drop the subject at any point you choose. You're a grown man. But just as it's unfair for others to mischaracterize you or your strips, it's unfair for you to make a statement, then move the goal posts when it's challenged... especially when it's challenged by someone who's not trolling your thread.

[Drew Van T.]

It doesn't matter to the purpose of the strip, but who is the guy in the blue shirt? I suppose that the letters IP on his shoulder represents "Iraqi Police". Is that what they're actually wearing, or is that to clarify to the reader what the man represents?

[latuff]

It doesn't matter to the purpose of the strip, but who is the guy in the blue shirt? I suppose that the letters IP on his shoulder represents "Iraqi Police". Is that what they're actually wearing, or is that to clarify to the reader what the man represents?

Actually that's the uniform of Iraqi police.