Sorta Mean Captain Marvel (the Shazam! one) Game

[Brian Cronin]

Okay, here's a new game.

First, name an established comic book writer you would like to see write Captain Marvel.

Next, name an established comic book writer that you think would do a WORSE job on Captain Marvel than Judd Winick.

-Brian

[atoningunifex]

I'd like to see Alan Moore write Captain Marvel.

And I've not read anything Judd has written in well nigh onto a decade, so I don't know who would be worse than him- but I bet Chuck Austen would probably be able to do a credible job being worse.

[Expletive Deleted]

I'd like to see Alan Moore write Captain Marvel.His TWILIGHT proposal and MIRACLEMAN notwithstanding, me too.

I'd be somewhat afraid of a Claremont SHAZAM! series. Not so much for Cap as for Mary.

[Joe Rice]

I would like to see a Mike Mignola Captain Marvel series.

I think the guy who writes "The Gift" would do worse than Winnick.

[Joe Rice]

I would like to see a Jay Stephens Marvel Family.

I think that Brad Meltzer would write a worse one.

[GreenHornet]

I'd like to see Alan Moore write Captain Marvel.

And I've not read anything Judd has written in well nigh onto a decade, so I don't know who would be worse than him- but I bet Chuck Austen would probably be able to do a credible job being worse.



Put me down on that list

[Cactusakic]

I'd like to see Frank Miller do a Captain Marvel series.
Then again, I'd like to see Frank write just about any series.
Not saying it would be good, just that I'd be interested to see the results.

I also think Chuck Austen could do a worse job that Winnick.

[Sean Whitmore]

Jeff Smith would do great on a Captain Marvel series. In fact, I thought he was supposed to be doing one, what's with this Winnick stuff?

I think Dave Sim has the potential to do worse than Winnick. Imagine Billy complaining that Mary is a black hole of logic that is sucking his precious man-juice away, or whatever the hell crackpot philosophy he has.


SEAN

[Brian Cronin]

Oh man, that's right, Jeff Smith WAS going to do a Captain Marvel project.

What's up with that?

That sounded good.

But it's being dropped for "Bring down the thunder"?

Gah!?!?

-Brian

[Expletive Deleted]

Smith's thing is an intentionally out-of-continuity mini-series, isn't it?

Unless I missed something, it's behind schedule, not replaced by the Winick project.

[Brian Cronin]

It definitely was behind schedule, I just worry that it is beyond schedule to the point where they're just replacing it with Winick's.

Hopefully not.

-Brian

[Sean Whitmore]

"Bring down the thunder"


Please tell me that's not part of the title...

Shazam: Bring in da noise, bring in da funk


SEAN

[Brian Cronin]

Billy is being held captive, and he says "Shazam" with the next caption being "And I bring it down hard. I can do that now. I can summon lightning and make it tangible. I can make them feel it. And I wanted these guys to feel it...to feel the power of the gods."

Lordy lord lord.

-Brian

[Gingold]

I think Mike Allred could do a kickass Captain Marvel series.

It's hard to think of someone worse for the character than Winick. Larry Hama, maybe? Greg Rucka would be pretty terrible.

[Pól Rua]

I think the Judd Winnick who wrote stories about 8 year old kids having adventures, feeling genuine emotion for other people, and displaying genuine warmth and good humour towards one another could write an awesome Captain Marvel.
I dunno who this bizarre homonculous they've got writing this new series is, but I don't think I'm alone when I suggest that the solution... is fire.

[Pól Rua]

I don't know about writing but wouldn't a Ty Templeton illustrated Captain Marvel series be great?
But yeah, I don't think I'd like to see a Tim Vigil-penned Captain Marvel series.

[Sean Whitmore]

No sarcasm involved, I am honestly DYING to know...

How does Judd Winnick get tapped to write the Superman/Marvel mini that no doubt led to this new book?

"It's a mini series starring the two purest, most wholesome characters in the whole company, and we need a writer. Hmm...what's the name of the guy who's Outsiders scripts we keep having to censor?"


SEAN

[Ultraman Max]

Mike Allred or Stuart Immomen (in his Nextwave style) maybe paired with Joe Casey provided it's "Godland" Joe Casey. Paul Dini would be a good choice too now that I think on it.


Worse than Winick? Considering the character I don't think Frank Miller or Garth Ennis would have that great a grasp on him (not that Winick does either). Wouldn't be interested in Joe Kelly's take either for that matter.

[Kevinroc]

Okay, here's a new game.

First, name an established comic book writer you would like to see write Captain Marvel.

Next, name an established comic book writer that you think would do a WORSE job on Captain Marvel than Judd Winick.

-Brian

1: Dwayne McDuffie. He was one of the writers of the JLU episode that had Captain Marvel in it. I thought that episode really showcased how you actually could make Captain Marvel work in the context of the DCU. It's too bad that the production team could only use Captain Marvel once since I think they could have done a great job with him.

2: AJ Lieberman?

[Michael P]

Neil Gaiman and Frank Tieri.

[Doug Strange]

Worse than Winick? Considering the character I don't think Frank Miller or Garth Ennis would have that great a grasp on him (not that Winick does either). Wouldn't be interested in Joe Kelly's take either for that matter.All three of these would do a MUCH better job than Judd Winnick. I'm not a fan of Miller, and even less of a fan of Kelly, but I seem to recall a Kelly issue of Action Comics that guest-starred the Marvel Family that was much funner than most Cap stuff of the past 25 years. Likewise, it was fun to see Cap in Dark Knight Strikes Again, and I bet Miller could do him justice.

And Ennis, of whom I am a huge fan, has a better grasp on most super-heroes than people realize. Not everything he writes is pure gold, but if he was into doing it, I'd trust him to get it right.

I'll go for the obvious that nobody's said...Morrison, obviously. I was DYING for it when all those rumors were circulating of him doing a GL/Cap Jr story. And then the big, crazy thing that never happened...Grant on a Cap Jr book, Waid on Cap, and Gail on Mary. I honestly don't know what's wrong with DC that they wouldn't go that route over what they've done.

An established writer worse than Winnick? Hard to imagine. Devin Grayson? I don't even know. It's a toss-up. I think Winnick would be worse than even her on Cap.

[Jack Flash]

James Robinson would right a kick butt Marvel Family Story

Larry Hama would do a captain Marvel story that would include a giant ferret pookah and we'd all die from the trauma.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Based on RUNAWAYS, and just the ample proof that he's a damn fine comics writer, I think Brian K. Vaughan would probably write a great Captain Marvel or Marvel Family book, definitely better than Winnick.

Grant Morrison is a given, really. His Cap didn't really rock too much in the couple JLA appearances he had, but that's mostly because Grant had about 73 characters to juggle. Given their own book, Grant's version of the Marvels would no doubt shine.

I think Gail would probably do a pretty good Marvel Family - not wildly inventive, but fun, and with the right mix of big events and character bits.

Worse than Winnick?? Well, Chuck Austen is a given. Billy would spend his time talking about how much better-hung he became when he turned into Cap, and Mary would become slutty whenever she took on her adult Mary Marvel form. Cap Jr. would probably be trying to sneak looks at Mary naked.

Someone mentioned Rucka, and yeah, Rucka would be exactly the wrong writer for anything having to do with the Marvel Family characters. There's no sense of magic in his writing, and the larger and more far-out a story he tries to tell, the more it tends to be stupid and un-fun. Espionage and crime books work fine for Rucka; big, goofy superhero fun is not something he seems to know how to write.

Oh, and it should go without saying that PAD should not be allowed near any members of the Marvel family.

[Kevinroc]

Oh, and it should go without saying that PAD should not be allowed near any members of the Marvel family.

Why in the name of Young Justice do you believe PAD should not be allowed near any of the Marvel family?

[Sean Whitmore]

Why in the name of Young Justice do you believe PAD should not be allowed near any of the Marvel family?


Probably because the last time he was, he stuck Mary Marvel in a child molestation story? :)

For my money, PAD's a bit too "shades of grey" to work on such a black/white hero as Cap.


SEAN

[RAB]

Interested readers should check Tom Strong #13 for an example of an Alan Moore "Captain Marvel" story.

There's one interesting candidate no one ever names in this context: Dave Gibbons. His writing doesn't entirely work for me...but he's a big fan of the real Captain Marvel from the Fawcett era, and he might just have the clout to be allowed to do it right where no other DC writer could. Doing the character and his legacy justice means being able to draw a line and say "this isn't just another grim superhero...this is a different kind of superhero who occupies a world which is as much a part of the character as the costume or the magic word." Apart from Nelson Bridwell, no one at DC ever got this. All they've ever done in the past twenty years is either write him as mentally retarded, or try to make him "fit in" with the company line. That's why it always fails.

Best of all would be Dave on the art chores as well.

And then of course there's Morrison: after the glorious Flex Mentallo and All-Star Superman, I could easily see him and Quitely doing Cap right. But only if they're allowed to do it like those books: a standalone concept that doesn't have to fit into any company continuity or team-ups or tie-ins.

Worse than Winick? Anyone who's likely to get the job would be just as bad.

[RAB]

Quick afterthought: as I think about it, Promethea is Alan Moore's real take on the Captain Marvel concept.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Why in the name of Young Justice do you believe PAD should not be allowed near any of the Marvel family?

Yeah, like Sean said. The last time PAD used Mary Marvel in a story (during his run on SUPERGIRL), the story dealt with sexual abuse of minors, and set up a very creepy "did it or didn't it happen?" sexual abuse situation involving Mary.

I know this is an old-fashioned idea, but I don't think all characters are apprpriate for all subjects, and I definitely don't think rape and sexual abuse of minors belongs in a Marvel Family story. If someone wants to cover that with a Marvel-analogue (as Moore did in MIRACLEMAN), fine and dandy, but that's not really the sort of content that belongs in a Mary Marvel story.

[Dan Apodaca]

Why in the name of Young Justice do you believe PAD should not be allowed near any of the Marvel family?

There's much too large a risk that he'd trip over a hooker.

[Cei-U!]

Doing a little thinking outside the box brings several names to mind: Don Rosa. Trina Robbins. Mark Evanier. Jill Thompson. Any and all of them capable of writing imaginative, fun, child-friendly Marvel Family stories... which is what the f'ing series is supposed to be, goddammit! When will DC stop trying to market these characters to an audience that neither understands nor appreciates them???

Sorry. My rant button got pushed.

As for worse writers than Winick, I'm not familar enough with current creators to say. Basically, anybody who wants to write a dark, edgy captain Marvel is a piss-poor choice in my opinion.

Cei-U!
I summon the crankiness!

[Pól Rua]

Don Rosa. Trina Robbins. Mark Evanier. Jill Thompson.

These ideas are all gold.
Can I add Linda (Castle Waiting) Medley's name? I suspect I can.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Tom Defalco.

I was looking at his Spidergirl and Juggernaut Jr. digests the other day, and it got me thinking back to when I was younger (11 or 12) and read his work a fair bit (it was everywhere then) and realised he writes really good superhero stories for kids (which is who they are meant for).
I think he'd do a nice, fun comic, and I can easily see Capt. Marvel or billy saying "Hoo-boy", so he'd probably love it.

Erik Larsen.

He showed in his column that he has the love for the character as it used to be.

As for who shouldn't?

Howard Chaykin (the thinking man's Chuck Austen), James O'Barr, Brian Bendis, Brandon Choi, anyone currently at Marvel....

but then again, why would you want any of these people to write the book, and why would they want to?

[Apathy Boy]

Better: Dylan Horrocks. HICKSVILLE showed us you can have a story that is gentle and optimistic while being gripping and dramatic at the same time.

Worse: Bendis. Though I will admit, I would love to read the following scene:

-So, to transform, you - you just say "Shazam." (Ka-boom!)
-"Shazam?" (Ka-boom!)
-Yeah, "Shazam." (Ka-boom!)
-Isn't that what Sgt. Bilko says? "Shazam?" (Ka-boom!)
-Yeah - Wait, no. I think that's, what's his name, Gomer Pyle. Y'know, "Shazam" (Ka-boom!) "Shazaaaaam!" (Ka-boom!)
-Oh yeah. "Shazam" (Ka-boom!) "Shazaaaaam!" (Ka-boom!)

Based on RUNAWAYS, and just the ample proof that he's a damn fine comics writer, I think Brian K. Vaughan would probably write a great Captain Marvel or Marvel Family book, definitely better than Winnick.I don't know. I like Vaughan, but his sensibilities as a writer have always struck me as being too contemporary for Captain Marvel. Everything he's ever written has been about deconstructionism, and while he writes some funny dialogue, I don't think he's written anything that's actually fun.

[LtMarvel]

I would say, based on the final scene of First Thunder, that there are many, many writers that would do far worse than Winnick, Erik Larson being among them.

I didn't like PAD's Supergirl Plus Mary Marvel. But, years later, PAD did a terrific job in the regular Supergirl series with a lengthy guest appearance of Mary Marvel.

[Fabian]

James Robinson would right a kick butt Marvel Family Story
I'd buy that in a heartbeat. James gave me a whole new love for Starman and DC's Golden Age. I'm sure he can work wonders with the Marvel family.

As for worse than Winnick? I have to go with Zimmerman.

[the film freak]

Frank Miller.
He got Cap right in DK2.

Scott Morse
Kid Friendly style but not too retro.

Gary Carlson
Basically did Captain Marvel in his Mighty Man stories in Big Bang.

Darywn Cooke
Can pretty much do anything.

[stealthwise]

Darwyn Cooke would work, as would Morse. I'd add Dan Slott as well.

Who would do worse than Winick? Even though he's not much of a writer (in terms of quantity and quality), Rob Liefeld would certainly stink.

[Reptisaurus!]

General Comments on Judd Winick:

It's weird: Winnick's independent stuff: (Barry Ween, Pedro and Me) very, very good. **** stars.

Winnick's Marvel stuff: (Exiles) Extremely solid. Would've been the best X-comic in YEARS except that Morrison and Milligan were starting there runs at the same time. *** stars.

Winnick's Better DC work. (Batman) Occasionally alright. *1/2

Winnick's Not-So-Better DC : (Outsiders) I tend to be dismissive of the opinions of folks who refer to comics as "Shit" or "Crap." But I've certainly had poops with much greater geWorkneral entertainment value. I haven't thoroughly researched this, but I'd tentatively call the second Outsiders trade the worst DC or Marvel trade ever. You can't even SEE the stars from here.

So if he wasn't writing for DC, I'd think his Shazam would be very good.

[Johnny Triangles]

Erik Larsen seems to really get the Captain Marvel character.

Jeph Loeb would do a worse job than Winick,

[Kid Omega]

Now, actually having seen four issues of Winnck's take on the Marvel family, I think it could be empirically said that 'No- no one could possibly do a worse job ever."

[Reptisaurus!]

Jeph Loeb would do a worse job than Winick,

No he wouldn't.

[the film freak]

Erik Larsen seems to really get the Captain Marvel character.

I love Erik Larsen and Savage Dragon but his non Image work usually leaves me cold. He definately gets Cap and I like his Mighty Man character (who actually is based on both Captain Marvels but with a gender switching twist) but I think Erik is one of those creators best left in his own sandbox (if you want to see a fun fight check out Savage Dragon 129 where Mighty Man battles a Galactus style monster).

[Omar Karindu]

Worse than Winick: Bruce Jones -- leaving aside questions of talent, his style is just a total mismatch for the character.

Better than Winick: Bill Morrison -- He could knock it right out of the park, I'll wager.

[carabas]

I'm familiar with Grant and Robbie Morrison.
Who is Bill Morrison?

[StrikeForce Albert]

Mike Allred on writing duties and art

I bet JMS would write a terrible Marvel, far worse than Winnick

[StrikeForce Albert]

I'd like to see Frank Miller do a Captain Marvel series.


as long as Cap uses this line every issue

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7980/marvelvd6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'm all for it

[Omar Karindu]

I'm familiar with Grant and Robbie Morrison.
Who is Bill Morrison?

Bill Morrison is the creative director at Bongo Comics, best known for the Simpsons stuff. They also did a short-lived book called Roswell -- no relation to the TV show of the same name -- and a great humorous Avengers story in Marvel Knights Double Shot #2. Put, say, Mark Buckingham on the art (mainly because Morrison draws everything Simpsons-style) and he'd rock Shazam!

[AllisterH]

In this whimsical "Captain Marvel" universe everyone is creating, would villains like Captain Nazi (and by extension, Freddy's origin) and the Black Adam of Johns reimagination be a part of it.

I just can't see how you guys want a "this is for kids" comic book with the same villains like Black Adam (the anti-hero if there ever was one) or Captain Nazi/Marvel Jr since Freddy's origin even to this day was pretty damn hardcore.

Similarly, the "he's not a bad guy but he's isn't a good guy" attitude of the current Adam, I don't see working for the age audience that Jeff Smith's MSoE is aiming for.

[the film freak]

In this whimsical "Captain Marvel" universe everyone is creating, would villains like Captain Nazi (and by extension, Freddy's origin) and the Black Adam of Johns reimagination be a part of it.

I just can't see how you guys want a "this is for kids" comic book with the same villains like Black Adam (the anti-hero if there ever was one) or Captain Nazi/Marvel Jr since Freddy's origin even to this day was pretty damn hardcore.

Similarly, the "he's not a bad guy but he's isn't a good guy" attitude of the current Adam, I don't see working for the age audience that Jeff Smith's MSoE is aiming for.

I think you can do some dark stories and still aim it towards kids. Harry Potter and Bone get pretty dark and kids read those books. They just aren't dark and serious all of the time unlike the Winnick book. You've got keep a nice balance.

[the film freak]

as long as Cap uses this line every issue

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7980/marvelvd6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'm all for it

As much shit Miller gets for tarnishing the DC Universe I thought he was pretty respectful towards Captain Marvel (pretty much every other character aside from Superman and Robin was pretty idealized). He was in character and in fact he acknowledged Billy and Cap were two seperate people. Something no one addresses anymore.

I definately preferred his Marvel over the one in Kingdom Come. Who was just there to give Superman someone to fight (can we stop with that btw).

[stealthwise]

As much shit Miller gets for tarnishing the DC Universe I thought he was pretty respectful towards Captain Marvel (pretty much every other character aside from Superman and Robin was pretty idealized). He was in character and in fact he acknowledged Billy and Cap were two seperate people. Something no one addresses anymore.

I definately preferred his Marvel over the one in Kingdom Come. Who was just there to give Superman someone to fight (can we stop with that btw).

Were Billy and Cap originally two different people? I thought that was a later addition.

[the film freak]

I don't know when it was first stated (if it ever was) but Cap and Billy were written as two seperate personalities from the beginning. Billy is a crafty kid and Cap being an idealized version of an adult.

Unlike the Cap of today who seems kind of... you know... retarded.

[Omar Karindu]

In this whimsical "Captain Marvel" universe everyone is creating, would villains like Captain Nazi (and by extension, Freddy's origin) and the Black Adam of Johns reimagination be a part of it.

I just can't see how you guys want a "this is for kids" comic book with the same villains like Black Adam (the anti-hero if there ever was one) or Captain Nazi/Marvel Jr since Freddy's origin even to this day was pretty damn hardcore.

Similarly, the "he's not a bad guy but he's isn't a good guy" attitude of the current Adam, I don't see working for the age audience that Jeff Smith's MSoE is aiming for.

The current Adam would probably work just fine -- kids have made it through movies with morally ambivalent characters for years, after all. Tone down the violence and play up the friction between Cap and Adam and it'd run smoothly enough.

Captain Nazi, on the other hand, is an idea whose time is probably long past. When he was created, pretty much none of the reading public knew about the atrocities in the concentration camps. The war was for the young audience of the time a grand heroic narrative; watch WWII-era movies and the way they portray the Nazis even in stories ostensibly aimed at adults. Nazis in films and comics of that time period behave like standard pulp megalomaniacs, and little more.

These days, it's impossible to treat a Nazi as a garden-variety villain; on the other hand, there's a long and painful tradition of lazy writers using "Nazi=evil" as shorthand so that they don't need to be bothered with characterization or creative villain motivations. This shift in sensibilities and increased access to information may also be why many people find it rather hard to enjoy or endorse the various "superheroes fight Al Qaida" bits floating around out there.

I know my own opposition to the idea runs along the line that it's frankly impossible for most comics writers to construct real-life military and ideological opponents as proper characters, because they'd be open to accusations of sympathy. So a writer can't explain the individual reasons why a character is a Nazi or a suicide bomber, but without doing so they're not much as characters. They wind up as paper targets for the heroes, who in turn become infinitely less interesting to read about because they've nothing to play off of besides superficial Manichean morality.

Captain America included, the real question is why superheroes are still fighting Nazis in "serious" stories in 2007. Apparently World War II was won everywhere but in the Marvel and DC Universes.*

Captain Nazi can go the way of the dodo in any take on the Shazam! characters -- especially any take set set in the present -- as far as I'm concerned.

* And I swear, the first person to mention Earth-X is gonna get it.

[Joe Rice]

From the Golden Age on, Billy and Cap referred to each other in the third person. They are separate people. Only with the DC retardification did he become a dumb adult.

[Joe Rice]

Black Adam was only an anti-hero in the current version. In the original version he was a craven, evil man who tricked the wizard into thinking he could be a hero.

Cap Jr.'s stories were always darker . . .they were "boy fighting Nazi" stories, as much war comic as superhero.

[Apathy Boy]

Better: Jay Stephens. JETCAT was great all-ages fun. And of course, my ultimate pipe dream is to see Bill Watterson take a crack at the Big Red Cheese, even though comic book fans would eventually eat him alive.

Worse: Paul Jenkins.

...

Was that too snarky even for this thread?

[the film freak]

From the Golden Age on, Billy and Cap referred to each other in the third person. They are separate people. Only with the DC retardification did he become a dumb adult.

In the Larsen article he mentioned an issue where a bad guy turned into Captain Marvel but Cap's personality remained intact.

I'd like to see that issue...

... you know instead of trying find a new take on Captain Marvel they could try to get more of the old stuff in print.

Monster Society of Evil hasn't even been collected yet in the Archives.

[the film freak]

Better: Jay Stephens. JETCAT was great all-ages fun. And of course, my ultimate pipe dream is to see Bill Watterson take a crack at the Big Red Cheese, even though comic book fans would eventually eat him alive.

What happened to Jay Stephens? I know he was working an aborted Teen Titans book but haven't heard much from him since?

[Joe Rice]

What happened to Jay Stephens? I know he was working an aborted Teen Titans book but haven't heard much from him since?

TV, I believe. Tutenstein is on NBC I think.

[AllisterH]

From the Golden Age on, Billy and Cap referred to each other in the third person. They are separate people. Only with the DC retardification did he become a dumb adult.

I'm not sure this is an improvement. The real reason why Captain Marvel was popular IMHO was because BILLY became Captain Marvel. If the two are separate people, then it really isn't Billy becoming Captain Marvel.

What's weird is that while it seems like Billy & Cap were two separate people, Mary and Freddy seemed to be the same when they transformed.

re: If Winnick had announced long beforehand that Jr. was the star, knowing that Jr.s stories were darker back in the golden age, would people have accepted the Trials of Shazam more?

[Reptisaurus!]

From the Golden Age on, Billy and Cap referred to each other in the third person. They are separate people. Only with the DC retardification did he become a dumb adult.

It's been a while since I read the Captain Marvel archives... But while he wasn't dumb, 'zactly, I don't remember the good Captain bein', like, Superman competent or anything. Even Captain Marvel was still a little bit childlike.

[Joe Rice]

re: If Winnick had announced long beforehand that Jr. was the star, knowing that Jr.s stories were darker back in the golden age, would people have accepted the Trials of Shazam more?

No, it's still a very bad book.

[Joe Rice]

It's been a while since I read the Captain Marvel archives... But while he wasn't dumb, 'zactly, I don't remember the good Captain bein', like, Superman competent or anything. Even Captain Marvel was still a little bit childlike.

He was a far cry from the giant autistic man DC has these days.

[Kid Kyoto]

What do people think of Jerry Orways Power of Shazam book? I have somewhat fond memories of it but it's been a long while since I reread them.

[Joe Rice]

What do people think of Jerry Orways Power of Shazam book? I have somewhat fond memories of it but it's been a long while since I reread them.

It was well-intentioned but frankly pretty boring.

[the film freak]

It's been a while since I read the Captain Marvel archives... But while he wasn't dumb, 'zactly, I don't remember the good Captain bein', like, Superman competent or anything. Even Captain Marvel was still a little bit childlike.


I only got the first volume (they ain't cheap) but he was a little more innocent then Superman. I think Grant Morrison described him best as the kind of adult kids expect their dad to be.

[the film freak]

I'm not sure this is an improvement. The real reason why Captain Marvel was popular IMHO was because BILLY became Captain Marvel. If the two are separate people, then it really isn't Billy becoming Captain Marvel.

Not sure if it's that simple. They kind of left it vague (at least from what I read). But I think Billy and Cap experience what the other person is doing even if the other is control. I think Cap is a seperate person but he's also Billy's idealized version of an adult.

Either way I'm not crazy about about Big Retard Cap. When Billy becomes Cap he should become a man not a boy trapped in a mans body. I think that's the biggest mistake DC made.

[Kid Omega]

Billy and Cap used to buy each other Christmas presents.

[stealthwise]

It was well-intentioned but frankly pretty boring.

The crossover with Starman was the low point in the latter's run, imo (I haven't read to the end yet though).

[Sean Whitmore]

From the Golden Age on, Billy and Cap referred to each other in the third person. They are separate people.

Winick should bring that aspect back. Then he could write a story where Cap touches Billy in the naughty place and Billy has to find the courage to tell a grownup.


SEAN

[Pól Rua]

Winick should bring that aspect back. Then he could write a story where Cap touches Billy in the naughty place and Billy has to find the courage to tell a grownup.


SEAN

You're Satan.