From a comics show in NE Ohio

[gentlesatirist]

There were about 8 dealers at the Knights of Columbus Hall in Wickliffe OH this past Sunday. That seemed down from about 10-12 that were there over the winter, but there seemed to be more people on hand. Show was run by Jeff Harper Productions, which runs a handful of shows in the area throughout the year.

Seems to me there are two types of dealers at this type of show:

1 - The kind who are still optimistic about the industry and who still enjoy talking with other fans.

and...

2 - The kind who are bitter because they're schlepping all these old comics from show to show, selling them at prices far lower than what they thought they'd get as they acquired their inventory.

Most volume was made up of comics in $1, $2 or $3 boxes. One guy even was selling relatively new comics for a buck, with a 60 for $50 special. Some action figures, some trading cards, some VHS tapes. Teen Titans and Batman Begins toys already available on the cheap as they exit toy stores nationwide.

I picked up about 15 issues of 70s DC - Richard Dragon, Swamp Thing, Superboy/LSH, Supergirl, Champion Sports, etc.


- FE
Wickliffe OH

[shaxper]

I wish I'd known you were going. I'm a regular fixture at Harper shows, though I don't usually attend this one. Wickliffe is always the smallest Harper show, so it generally doesn't draw a lot of the regular vendors (though 8-12 dealers is surprising. When I attended last year, there were at least 20). The bigger Harper shows draw as many as 60 vendors. Here's the info about each Harper Show: http://www.harpercomics.com/conventions/otherinfo.cfm?id=1

There are many kinds of dealers at these Harper Shows with a variety of opinions about the industry. I find that the dealers with the premium Golden/Silver age back issues aren't having any complaints, nor are the dealers that have succesfully kept up with current back issue demand. However, I've also learned that optimism about sales and friendliness/enthusiasm do not always correlate, and that the pessimistic guys with the dollar bins are louder than the nice guys with the quality books. They tend to overshadow them, creating a negative perception when you first attend these shows. Gradually, you find all the dealers that are worth knowing (and there are quite a few).

I hope you got to talk to George Geis and John Haines. They're the best guys to talk comics with. I often attend these shows just to see them. No idea whether or not they attended, though.

[gentlesatirist]

...but there definitely weren't 20. They clearly were filling less of the room than they did a few months ago.

Can't complain with $2 entry fee, and dealer tables were only $55, so everyone probably made back their fees.

Always like the selection of action figures at these events, but you have to sift through the 80s/90s rubble to find some decent comics. A lot of the dealers had this pleading look in their eyes that seemed to say "help me get rid of this stuff!"

Still glad Harper does it though. I live nearby and it's a fun trip with my son. My brother-in-law and his son joined us Sunday as well. I probably spent $40, but was a good experience.


- FE

[shaxper]

...but there definitely weren't 20. They clearly were filling less of the room than they did a few months ago.

That's too bad. I have been hearing more and more of the dealers say they were tired of doing Wickliffe. Just not enough of a turnout. I wouldn't be surprised if Jeff cuts this from the rotation next year.


Can't complain with $2 entry fee, and dealer tables were only $55, so everyone probably made back their fees.


Jeff's going to have to lower that table fee. It's too high for such a small venue. He doesn't charge that much more for the Cleveland shows.


Always like the selection of action figures at these events, but you have to sift through the 80s/90s rubble to find some decent comics.

I rarely find good figures at the right price at Harper shows. ebay works much better for me. In my opinion, most of the figure dealers have poor selections and higher end prices. Tom Aresto is the one exception to this rule. Great selection, good prices, and always willing to work a deal. I don't know if he attended Wickliffe.


A lot of the dealers had this pleading look in their eyes that seemed to say "help me get rid of this stuff!"

Yeah, that's the Wickliffe show for you. Have you ever attended a Harper show at the other locations? VERY different experience.


Still glad Harper does it though. I live nearby and it's a fun trip with my son. My brother-in-law and his son joined us Sunday as well. I probably spent $40, but was a good experience.


I hope you'll find the chance to travel further out for the bigger Harper shows. If you ever do, let me know in advance. I'd love to meet you there and introduce you to some quality dealers who'll be happy to offer you some generous discounts. I generally drop $200-$800 at these shows, so they're pretty nice to anyone I introduce to them ;)

[Hintermann]

Most volume was made up of comics in $1, $2 or $3 boxes. One guy even was selling relatively new comics for a buck, with a 60 for $50 special. Wickliffe OH

Wow! I wish that I was there. Sometimes, we comic collectors can be in the right place at the right time. Back in late September 1995, the wife and I were travelling through New England when we stopped at a small town in Vermont (I don't even recall its name) for lunch. Afterwards, we strolled across to a small fete that was going on in the town and ended up in a collector's shop. There was this guy selling comics, view-master reels and several other items for a song. I must have picked up over 200 silver age titles & stuff that day for around $60. Best bargain that I ever had!

[MDG]

Are these shows by the same guys that do Mid-Ohio? A group of us used to make the trip every year and could always find some bargains.

MDG

[founder81]

Glad to hear you had a good experience at a Jeff Harper run show. :)

I had a very bad experience at one, so bad I refuse to attend another comic show due to how I was treated. :mad:

[Lone Ranger]

We used to have smaller 'comics only' shows in Toronto, but they don't seem to happen any more.

I miss them, because they were always inexpensive to attend and it was easy to do a quick lap of all of the dealers before making any big decisions.

I understand that some dealers may like to their books sell for more, but selling books for $1 or $2 adds up, and those are books that might only go for 50 cents on eBay.

[shaxper]

Are these shows by the same guys that do Mid-Ohio?


Nope. That's a larger venue. Harper shows run 30-60 tables and attract few interstate buyers. There's less to see but, since there are less buyers, the dealers are usually a lot more willing to work a deal.



Glad to hear you had a good experience at a Jeff Harper run show.

I had a very bad experience at one, so bad I refuse to attend another comic show due to how I was treated.

What happened? There are a few sellers there that are tremendous assholes, and I will not buy from them on principal. Most of the rest are incredibly nice and absolutely worth getting to know. I don't particularly care for Jeff Harper himself, but I also don't have much reason to come in contact with him at the shows.

[MDG]

We used to have smaller 'comics only' shows in Toronto, but they don't seem to happen any more.
I used to love Ithacon, which in the 80s-early 90s was a small show but used to get a bunch of A-list guests.

Didn't have a huge dealer room, but a lot of chances to get sketches and buy art from artists without horrendous lines. And people like Al Willamson and Julie Schwartz would show up even if they weren't scheduled--a very informal and friendly atmophere.

One of the best was (I think) '84. The guests included Wrightson, Kaluta, Jeff jones, Barry Smith, Williamson, Tom Mandrake, Jan Duursema, Bissette, Totleben, Rick Veitch, Bret Blevens, June Brigman... and that wasn't everybody. And this is for a show that probably only had about 300 people attending.

MDG

[gentlesatirist]

...is strictly a sales-based event. Don't know if his others are big enough for an industry guest or two.

Still don't know why Cleveland doesn't have its own big comics show. There was one at a low-end Holiday Inn downtown last year that was atrocious. Poorly attended and in a small room.

I think there was a mid-sized one in Cleveland a few years back that featured Walt Simonson. But I think the reality of it is that with Mid-Ohio established in Columbus - I've been to that show a couple of times, and a fine show it is - that Cleveland is on the outs. Columbus is within reasonable driving distance of Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit, Louisville, Indianapolis and Pittsburgh, so it can draw from all of those areas.

Cleveland's lack of a show id doubly sad in light of its status as the birthplace of Superman and because it's always in general seemed like a strong pop culture town.


- FE
Wickliffe OH

[KevinB]

We used to have smaller 'comics only' shows in Toronto, but they don't seem to happen any more.

I miss them, because they were always inexpensive to attend and it was easy to do a quick lap of all of the dealers before making any big decisions.


You may see them return in TO very soon...

[shaxper]

...is strictly a sales-based event. Don't know if his others are big enough for an industry guest or two.

They have guests at the bigger ones, but never anyone that I've cared about. No one super big.


Still don't know why Cleveland doesn't have its own big comics show. There was one at a low-end Holiday Inn downtown last year that was atrocious. Poorly attended and in a small room.


That was probably a Harper show. They do the Cleveland Comicon and Saturday's Child several times a year near Cleveland in Holiday Inns. I like the fact that they're small and usually don't draw large crowds. Easier for me to make a few good deals with the dealers, and more likely that they'll remember me next time. A lot of Harper shows have had very good turnouts for their size, but there's no doubt that they are small scale shows. That's why admission is always between two and six bucks. You don't get better deals at the bigger shows since the dealers have more buyers, and if you attend the Harper shows regularly, the dealers can get you pretty much anything you need. You just have to get to know them a little. However, I should add that Mid-Ohio Con had a miserable turnout last year and the dealers were pretty desperate that time. I usually get the better deals at the Harper Shows. This time, it was Mid-Ohio Con.


I think there was a mid-sized one in Cleveland a few years back that featured Walt Simonson. But I think the reality of it is that with Mid-Ohio established in Columbus - I've been to that show a couple of times, and a fine show it is - that Cleveland is on the outs. Columbus is within reasonable driving distance of Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit, Louisville, Indianapolis and Pittsburgh, so it can draw from all of those areas.


Cleveland as a location just doesn't have the draw. People that don't live right near it don't travel to it very often. Transportation wise, while buses will get you right there, there's no train station and the airport is a bit far away. I'm not sure why Columbus is a better draw, perhaps because it's a more centralized location for Ohions to go to. Cleveland is too far North to attract many Ohions, and neighboring Pennsylvanians near Pittsburgh and Michiganers near Detroit get their own (better)conventions.


Cleveland's lack of a show id doubly sad in light of its status as the birthplace of Superman

I wish Cleveland made a bigger (or really any) deal about this, but I think the DC trademark complicates things. I'd love to have a classic Shuster and Siegal Supes on my license plate...


and because it's always in general seemed like a strong pop culture town.


I wish I got that feeling about this place. The outer communities (especially Lakewood, my hometown, and University Heights) are more cultural and pop-interested, but there isn't much of a comic community anywhere around here. Just about all the comic stores within an hour of me are doing poorly (well, two are still making a profit), and I don't believe there's a single comic book store in downtown Cleveland, itself. The community just doesn't support these stores enough. I saw two of the three shops in Lakewood close over the past three years, and the last one is going out in October.

[gentlesatirist]

...it's a question of perception vs. reality.

A lot of people seem to dig the whole comics/old movies/old TV vibe. Maybe that's a hangover from the Ghoulardi generation. But outside of Carol & John's in Cleveland (Kamm's Corners) (where I used to shop) and Comic Heaven in Willoughby (where I now shop) I don't know any that are going great guns. There's one on Mayfield Road in the Lyndhurst area that seems kind of desultory. There was one I went to in Lakewood a while back that was basically in an old house and was way too small.

As for a store downtown, Tony Isabella closed Cosmic Comics at least 10 years ago. Why would anyone put a store there? I have no idea how downtown Cleveland supports as much retail as it already does.

I think the area is dealing with a few things :

1 - Population growth flat and remaining population getting older, i.e. less likely to drop cash on popcult-type products.

2 - Loss of high-paying manufacturing jobs and failure of salaries to keep up with rising prices.

Now it's hard to recognize any of these trends if you're at a Target, Wal-Mart or BJ's Wholesale store on a weekend - and people are flowing out the doors with shopping carts stuffed to the hilt - but overall these factors hurt sales of comics and similar products.

The Mid-Ohio crowd was down last year? I had heard it wasn't that bad...


- FE
Wickliffe OH

[shaxper]

...it's a question of perception vs. reality.

A lot of people seem to dig the whole comics/old movies/old TV vibe. Maybe that's a hangover from the Ghoulardi generation. But outside of Carol & John's in Cleveland (Kamm's Corners) (where I used to shop) and Comic Heaven in Willoughby (where I now shop) I don't know any that are going great guns. There's one on Mayfield Road in the Lyndhurst area that seems kind of desultory. There was one I went to in Lakewood a while back that was basically in an old house and was way too small.


Comic Book Heaven is doing very well, as is Astound in Westlake (though they only do new comics and trades). The Lakewood store you mentioned is gone now. The only one left in Lakewood moved in last year and will be leaving in October.


As for a store downtown, Tony Isabella closed Cosmic Comics at least 10 years ago. Why would anyone put a store there? I have no idea how downtown Cleveland supports as much retail as it already does.


It's a mystery to me. The East Side should have more shops though. Coventry, in particular, would probably be the one place that would be likely to draw the right kind of crowd.


I think the area is dealing with a few things :

1 - Population growth flat and remaining population getting older, i.e. less likely to drop cash on popcult-type products.


As a teacher, I can tell you the high school population is booming in most areas. In a few years, those kids will be the target demographic for shops. Also, Lakewood (where I am) is a very young community, yet we're doing the worst job of holding onto our shops.


2 - Loss of high-paying manufacturing jobs and failure of salaries to keep up with rising prices.


Yes. In general, the economy sucks here, but I don't think that's the real reason that people aren't going to comic shops. A large portion of Lakewood's shops are restaurants, and I've only seen one go under since the depression/recession hit here a few years back. People are apparently still rather free with their spending money here.


Now it's hard to recognize any of these trends if you're at a Target, Wal-Mart or BJ's Wholesale store on a weekend - and people are flowing out the doors with shopping carts stuffed to the hilt - but overall these factors hurt sales of comics and similar products.


I just don't think comics have a very wide audience anymore. It's all direct market in little shops and targeted to adults, so they're not pulling in many new readers, plus the investment bubble last decade put a lot of people off to collecting. Comic shops are still able to survive in concentrated areas of population where a lot of people pass by regularly, but the suburbs of Cleveland are unique in that Cleveland itself is a bit of a ghosttown. There is no centralized hub of commerce here. Everything's spread out, so it's much harder to pull in a large amount of customers. At least, that's the best theory I can come up with. I know a lot of shops in Pittsburgh have survived by publicizing at the comicon and doing factory sales, but Cleveland doesn't have a big show and we don't have that kind of cheap available space in the downtown area either.


The Mid-Ohio crowd was down last year? I had heard it wasn't that bad...


I don't know for sure that attendance was down, but sales were horrible. Dealers were practically crying and were desperate to make deals.

[gentlesatirist]

...that many Midwestern cities are going through the same thing that Cleveland is, in terms of how many comic shops they can support.

Also am puzzled by a lack of a comics store in Coventry. You would have thought one would have located next to that Big Fun nostalgia store, or by one of the music stores. Although I stop in Big Fun about once every 3 years, and the inventory never seems to change - Rat Pack magnets, Jimmy Walker posters, Dukes of Hazzard coloring books? Been there, done that.

Was in that neighborhood last fall for a concert and it seemed to have gone a bit upscale. If that's the case, there's zero chance of a comic shop ever going in.

Thing that surprised me about Comic Heaven vs. Carol & John's - we moved from the West Side to the east Side in '04 - is that CH seems to do a thriving business in the fantasy-gaming/role-playing stuff that C&J's doesn't even carry. Didn't realize that segment was still so big.


- FE

[gentlesatirist]

...I made some enjoyable trips to Eide's Comics & Records as a teen-ager in the late 80s. Place had an abundance of old, cheap and obscure comics and music. Hours of fun.

I went back during a business trip in the late 90s and the place looked like it had gone corporate. Much more organized - and probably more profitable - but a lot less fun. Don't know if it's there anymore.

The original store was on Penn Ave., but I'm not even sure if that's where it was on my return visit.


- FE

[founder81]

...I made some enjoyable trips to Eide's Comics & Records as a teen-ager in the late 80s. Place had an abundance of old, cheap and obscure comics and music. Hours of fun.

I went back during a business trip in the late 90s and the place looked like it had gone corporate. Much more organized - and probably more profitable - but a lot less fun. Don't know if it's there anymore.

The original store was on Penn Ave., but I'm not even sure if that's where it was on my return visit.


- FE

The store was still open 2 years ago, a local shop went out of business and pointed all they're customers to Eides.

Pittsburgh area is mostly ruled by a chain called New Dimension Comics. NDC is in Ellwood City, Cranberry Twp, Butler (in a mall), and Century III Mall (just outside of Pittsburgh).

Phantom of the attic is the only other comic shop I know of, they have stores in Green Tree and Monroeville (never been to the one in Monroeville).

[dan bailey]

Thing that surprised me about Comic Heaven vs. Carol & John's - we moved from the West Side to the east Side in '04 - is that CH seems to do a thriving business in the fantasy-gaming/role-playing stuff that C&J's doesn't even carry. Didn't realize that segment was still so big.


i really have no exposure at all to that sort of thing (we carry some magic & yu-gi-oh stuff here in the store, but it's very much an afterthought ... & personally -- as i've noted elsewhere to the amazement of some -- i've never even played pinball or a single video game, much less d&d or any of its descendants), but of the 3 out-of-town comics shops i've visited in the last 9 months or so, 2 (in birmingham & just outside fort walton beach, respectively) were positively lousy with game-players enwrapt in tournaments the saturdays i dropped by.

i can only imagine that non-comics people look at us the way i look at those guys ... & that makes me shudder.