Cyberpunk

[Shellhead]

I miss the cyberpunk movement from the 80's. The basic style was a mixture of cybernetics/punk rock/hard-boiled detective/film noir all mixed together in near-future dystopias starring gritty anti-heroes navigating ethical mazes. Cyberpunk tended to have a lot of cosmopolitan touches, words and concepts and style borrowed from cultures around the world. The technology was not too far advanced compared to our own, but there was a very Future Shock sense of how the technology really changed society.

Some favorites of mine:

Neuromancer, by William Gibson
When Gravity Fails, by George Alec Effinger
Vacuum Flowers, by Michael Swanwick
Islands in the Net, by Bruce Sterling
Hard-Wired, by Walter Jon Williams

[bluetyson]

I miss the cyberpunk movement from the 80's. The basic style was a mixture of cybernetics/punk rock/hard-boiled detective/film noir all mixed together in near-future dystopias starring gritty anti-heroes navigating ethical mazes. Cyberpunk tended to have a lot of cosmopolitan touches, words and concepts and style borrowed from cultures around the world. The technology was not too far advanced compared to our own, but there was a very Future Shock sense of how the technology really changed society.

Some favorites of mine:

Neuromancer, by William Gibson
When Gravity Fails, by George Alec Effinger
Vacuum Flowers, by Michael Swanwick
Islands in the Net, by Bruce Sterling
Hard-Wired, by Walter Jon Williams


Try Pat Cadigan - Synners
Richard Morgan - Altered Carbon (although much more recent)

and Snow Crash, by Stephenson, is a must read

[Shady Jack]

I tried Neuromancer years ago, but couldn't get into it. Heard good things about Bruce Sterlings books as well, but never got around to them.

I *did* play the hell outta this, which was/is awesome:
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f275/blackestofblueskies/cyberpunk2020.jpg

I love the whole cyberpunk concept, though. It was very cool to a kid of the 80's/90's. Hackers actually being able to enter the 'net, people getting cybernetic implants...the whole bleak paranoia aspect of the "near future" with corporations running everything...

*looks around*

Ya know, it still sounds pretty cool...

[CaptMagellan]

Some favorites of mine:

Neuromancer, by William Gibson
When Gravity Fails, by George Alec Effinger
Vacuum Flowers, by Michael Swanwick
Islands in the Net, by Bruce Sterling
Hard-Wired, by Walter Jon Williams

I love the cyberpunk genre and wish there were more modern stuff. I even liked the 'ribofunk' spin off stuff that was happening a few years ago (biogenetics instead of comp tech stuff being the defining science flavor of the future world).

Gibson is still my favorite. I just recently read the Effinger trilogy and, although I liked it, I found it TOO derivitive of Chandler's style. I felt it was more transplanted noir than cyberpunk. At times it felt almost like a pastiche of hard boiled style. But I did like it enough to read all three books.

I'd like to see more good sci-fi/futurist stuff that are good political/social criticism and satire the way the cyberpunk books were back in the 80s.

Maybe with the current political climates we'll see more timely stuff pop up in the next 5+ years.

[Shellhead]

I tried Neuromancer years ago, but couldn't get into it. Heard good things about Bruce Sterlings books as well, but never got around to them.

I *did* play the hell outta this, which was/is awesome:
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f275/blackestofblueskies/cyberpunk2020.jpg

I love the whole cyberpunk concept, though. It was very cool to a kid of the 80's/90's. Hackers actually being able to enter the 'net, people getting cybernetic implants...the whole bleak paranoia aspect of the "near future" with corporations running everything...

*looks around*

Ya know, it still sounds pretty cool...

I bought both the first and second editions of this game as soon as possible, as well as some of the supplements. But ultimately, Cyberpunk was a flawed game. The netrunning tended to entertain just one player, while everybody else got bored. And too much of the combat system was dominated by a single attribute, Reflex or something like that. With effort, it could still be made a very fun game, but there were other, easier games to play instead. I admit that the second edition was a vast improvement over the first edition, and I loved the humanity cost for adding on cybernetics.

While the cyberpunk sub-genre definitely had an impact on movies and old school rpgs, I'm surprised that it never inspired a great PC game. I suppose part of the problem was that the most talented cyberpunk writers were too talented to stay confined to a specific sub-genre, and eventually moved on to other kinds of stories.

[howyadoin]

I can't get enough of this shit. Gibson was my first favourite, but Stephenson is definitely the King.

[Inkthinker]

I think Tad Williams Otherland is a pretty cool read on a Virtual Reality landscape, though it's not particularly cyberpunk in style compared to, say, Shadowrun or even Snow Crash.

I like Stephenson's novel best, I think... he's playing off Gibson's ideas, but with snappier prose. The opening chapter is one of the best in just about any novel I've read, and the book is full of great moments and characters, from Raven to Uncle Enzo to The Rat Thing. .

And everyone listens to REASON.

:D

But beyond Stephenson, Gibson's pretty much the Tokien of the genre.

[Rabid Trekkie]

I heard that Alfred Bester's stuff was a forerunner of the cyberpunk genre. If so then "The Stars My Destination" is the only one that I've read. Anyone have any suggestions for books to look up?

[Shellhead]

I really enjoyed Snow Crash, but I don't consider it to be cyberpunk. It has too much energy and optimism, and not enough alienation. There are some common aspects, like some of the technology, and the multi-cultural influences. But Snow Crash is just a little too much, to the point of being cartoonish, to fit in the same sub-genre as the works of Gibson and company.

While describing cyberpunk, Bruce Sterling said, "Anything that can be done to a rat can be done to a human being. And we can do most anything to rats. This is a hard thing to think about, but it's the truth. It won't go away because we cover our eyes. That is cyberpunk." And, in my opinion, that is not Snow Crash.

[leonaozaki]

I am a slavering cyberpunk gearhead. I cannot get enough of it, and have never been able to get enough of it, ever since I saw BLADE RUNNER.

Obviously William Gibson is the big kahuna of the subgenre, and rightly so. Certainly he is its best stylist. I adore all of his books, and have reread all of them multiple times (and then there are, of course, his two X-Files episodes, "Kill Switch" and "First Person Shooter." The first is better than the second, but both are eminently watchable...but then again I'm also a slavering X-Files gearhead).

Bruce Sterling is fantastically intelligent and certainly has no dearth of Big Ideas. But his dialogue can be forced and his plotting weak in ways that Gibson's never are. That said, there are passages in all of his books that are fantastic-- DISTRACTION is perhaps my favorite of his novels-- and he writes great short stories. Check out GLOBALHEAD and A GOOD OLD-FASHIONED FUTURE to see what I'm talking about.

Nobody talks about Richard Kadrey anymore, probably because his book METROPHAGE is out of print. But I found a used copy and it is brilliant.

I loooooved George Alec Effinger's Budayeen trilogy, and found it very sad that he had to adopt a false identity and write soap opera scripts to avoid trouble with the IRS-- making it functionally impossible for him to write the long-promised fourth book in the Marid Audran series.

Is Neal Stephenson a cyberpunk writer? Bruce Sterling certainly seems to believe that he is. Certainly all of his novels (except ZODIAC, which everybody should read immediately) are concerned with one of the central plot points of most cyberpunk novels: access to, and the flow of, information.

Walter Jon Williams' HARDWIRED is fantastic, as is his VOICE OF THE WHIRLWIND (although I'm not really sure if the latter counts as CP, and not just straight up SF).

Greg Bear's BLOOD MUSIC is an entertaing, if seriously creepy read.

I also enjoyed the MIRRORSHADES and THE ULTIMATE CYBERPUNK anthologies, and played the hell out of both CYBERPUNK 2020 and CYBERGENERATION.

rob

[CaptMagellan]

I really enjoyed Snow Crash, but I don't consider it to be cyberpunk. It has too much energy and optimism, and not enough alienation. There are some common aspects, like some of the technology, and the multi-cultural influences. But Snow Crash is just a little too much, to the point of being cartoonish, to fit in the same sub-genre as the works of Gibson and company.

I agree with you regarding Snow Crash. It read to me as an intentional satire and critique of the genre (and I've heard it alleged that was Stephenson's aim - supposedly, someone correct me if I'm slandering the man, he held quite a bit of disdain for the movement).

In some ways I find his "Cryptonomicon" to be more in the spirit of Cyberpunk fiction than "Snow Crash" was.

A book not mentioned so far is the great anthology of cyberpunk fiction and appropriate non-fiction out of Duke University Press: "Storming the Reality Studio"
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0822311682/qid=1149898193/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-8267919-7110201?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

It's definitely worth having in the ol' library.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I think Ghost Rider 2099 was cyberpunk at it's very best.


I love the whole cyberpunk concept, though. It was very cool to a kid of the 80's/90's. Hackers actually being able to enter the 'net, people getting cybernetic implants...the whole bleak paranoia aspect of the "near future" with corporations running everything...

*looks around*

Ya know, it still sounds pretty cool...

Apart from being able to enter the net, everything else has happened/is happening.

Welcome to the Cyber Punk era.


I heard that Alfred Bester's stuff was a forerunner of the cyberpunk genre. If so then "The Stars My Destination" is the only one that I've read. Anyone have any suggestions for books to look up?

Well, there's his only other sci-fi book 'The Demolished Man' which is just as good as 'The Stars My Destination' if not better. It has more focus on the central character, really allowing you into his head.


Does anyone else find it hard not to snigger when reading early Cyberpunk about them going all out to get 10Megs?

[Socrates1971]

I never played D&D, not even for one minute, for some reason I just couldn't get into it... However, Cyberpunk was so addicting, in its premise, and then in actually playing and reading the books, that it consumed me for about 2 years. I couldn't get enough of it. My favorite book, and way of playing the game was: Home of the Brave. http://tundra-sales-org.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/cp3221f.jpg

I liked the notion of the story, and how it took you out of the city, and into areas not seen before in the game. Running down highways in the middle of nowhere, etc.

I got rid of my Cyberpunk books back in the early 90's, and regret it now that I've come back to reading comics... I now look for comics that are Cyberpunk-like, attempting to regain that lost youth and feeling of excitement in wanting to know what was going to happen next.

Cyberpunk memories... Good times...

[howyadoin]

Obviously William Gibson is the big kahuna of the subgenre, and rightly so. Certainly he is its best stylist. I adore all of his books, and have reread all of them multiple timesThis might seem like an odd question, but have you ever read his trilogies in reverse order?

[leonaozaki]

This might seem like an odd question, but have you ever read his trilogies in reverse order?

No, I haven't, although I have read them out of sequential order.

rob

[howyadoin]

No, I haven't, although I have read them out of sequential order.I happened to pick up Mona Lisa Overdrive once, just to look up some quote or other. In no time I was hooked once again, and after I'd read it, I naturally wanted to read more. If I'm remembering correctly, this was prior to Virtual Light, so my only option was going back and reading the two previous books. I found I was noticing all kinds of little details that had slipped past me before.

[Shellhead]

I got rid of my Cyberpunk books back in the early 90's, and regret it now that I've come back to reading comics... I now look for comics that are Cyberpunk-like, attempting to regain that lost youth and feeling of excitement in wanting to know what was going to happen next.

Cyberpunk memories... Good times...

Marvel's Epic line actually published the first part a Neuromancer graphic novel series... maybe in the late 80's or so. The style of the artwork was reminiscient of Heavy Metal, which was perfect, since Heavy Metal was an influence on Gibson when he started writing cyberpunk stories.

http://www.antonraubenweiss.com/gibson/gallery/neuromancer-graphicnovel/neuromancer-comic2.jpg

http://www.antonraubenweiss.com/gibson/gallery/neuromancer-graphicnovel/page-36.JPG

http://www.antonraubenweiss.com/gibson/gallery/neuromancer-graphicnovel/page-40.JPG

[Adam Crocker]

Nobody talks about Richard Kadrey anymore, probably because his book METROPHAGE is out of print. But I found a used copy and it is brilliant.


He put it up for free distribution on the net (http://www.speed.demon.co.uk/kadrey/) (though still retains copyrights to the works) as well as a short story called Horse Latitudes (http://www.well.com:70/0/Publications/authors/kadrey/HorseLat).


I really enjoyed Snow Crash, but I don't consider it to be cyberpunk. It has too much energy and optimism, and not enough alienation.

I've actually heard Snow Crash described as (http://slashdot.org/features/99/10/08/2123255.shtml) "post-cyberpunk" because they both continue cyberpunk's obsession with the effects of technology on society, but less concerned with cybernetic implants and in that they do not automatically assume dystopia. In fact the protagonists are frequently well anchored in society rather than on it's margins.


I agree with you regarding Snow Crash. It read to me as an intentional satire and critique of the genre (and I've heard it alleged that was Stephenson's aim - supposedly, someone correct me if I'm slandering the man, he held quite a bit of disdain for the movement).

So far all I found was this...

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/history.html


A decade after Snow Crash, how do you feel when people still refer to you as cyberpunk?
Oh, it's a great label. You get to wear black leather jackets and mirrored shades and be hip and cool as long as cyberpunk is hip and cool. But I think I've been recategorized as post-cyberpunk, so that's over.

Is cyberpunk over?
The best I can muster is that for a while, information technology was incredibly important, yet it had been ignored or gotten wrong by science fiction. There was this vast terrain of virgin territory, and there was a land rush. Now the revolutionary nature of that technology has become familiar. To make the obligatory social criticism kind of comment here, the bursting of the Internet bubble has proven that information technology is just another technology.

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,63050,00.html


Cyberpunk has been over for a long time. Some would say it was already over by the early '90s. It's over because it became part of the main current of science fiction. One way of thinking about cyberpunk is that it was a process by which SF belatedly came alive to the importance of information technology, and re-evaluated not only the future but also the past in that light. Similar things have been going on more recently with nanotechnology and biotech. Anyway, for the last 10 years or so, money and markets have been inseparable in my mind from other themes that are of great interest to contemporary SF writers.

Seems that he feels cyberpunk has more pewtered out as a movement and viable genre and its ideas absorbed into the mainstream of science-fiction. Which is interesting because that's how I regard punk rock (though it really wasn't absorbed into the mainstream until about ten years or so after it had been processed through the various stylistic innovations of post punk and 80s alternative rock).

[Paul McEnery]

The new hot guy on the block is Jon Courtney Grimwood.

Stamping Butterflies is utterly incredible.

RedRobe is still my favourite.

And while not strictly cyberpunk, or perhaps even science fiction, you shouldn't miss 9tail Fox.

Then there's his cyberpunky series set in an alternative Morocco. Lovely, and neat in it's cool display of Islamic understanding, but a little thinner than his one-offs, probably because of the whole series thing.

[Shellhead]

Then there's his cyberpunky series set in an alternative Morocco. Lovely, and neat in it's cool display of Islamic understanding, but a little thinner than his one-offs, probably because of the whole series thing.

Sounds like he was inspired by Effinger's work. How does it compare to When Gravity Fails?

[jabrams007]

Has anyone read any of Richard K. Morgan's books? I don't know if I would classify him as sci-fi or cyberpunk, but Altered Carbon, his first novel, has a very cyberpunkish feel to it. Absolutely great book. I highly highly recommend it. Think Raymond Chandler meets Blade Runner.

[bluetyson]

Yeah, Richard Morgan is great. Altered Carbon is fabulous.

[Doodle Bob]

I seem to recall that back in the mid 80's (it was during my freshman year at college so it would have been 1986 or 1987), Spin magazine ran an article about cyberpunk literature by either Tim Leary (yes, *that* Tim Leary) or Robert Anton Wilson. It was a great article, in which he made the case that the progenitor of the genre could be found in the second section (called Into The Zone) of Thomas Pynchon's gargantuan novel *Gravity's Rainbow*.

Would anyone happen to have a copy?

[Rob H]

This may not be what you're after but...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0914171771/104-4171355-8904728?v=glance&n=283155

[Seraphex]

Hey guys,

I'm working on a cyberpunk comic book series that will launch this year. You all get to toss input in now on what you want to see.

What do you want in a cyberpunk comic? Visually? Story-wise? Character-wise?

[Donald M.]

Hey guys,

I'm working on a cyberpunk comic book series that will launch this year. You all get to toss input in now on what you want to see.

What do you want in a cyberpunk comic? Visually? Story-wise? Character-wise?

I want it to be good. Other than that, if you can't come up with your own ideas, don't bother.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but if the series is launching later this year, shouldn't things like the look, story and characters be more or less already worked out? If they aren't, that really doesn't bode well.

[howyadoin]

I want it to be good. Other than that, if you can't come up with your own ideas, don't bother.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but if the series is launching later this year, shouldn't things like the look, story and characters be more or less already worked out? If they aren't, that really doesn't bode well.Totally in agreement. The whole thing sounds ill-conceived at best, if not more than a little fishy.

[Ryan Day]

When it comes to cyberpunk comics, I basically want TRON. With penguins. Written by Charles Stross, with art by Bill Sienkiewicz.

You know, that sort of thing.

[Headhunter]

I still have a soft spot for the Shadowrun novels...

[whiteshark]

Hey guys,

I'm working on a cyberpunk comic book series that will launch this year. You all get to toss input in now on what you want to see.

What do you want in a cyberpunk comic? Visually? Story-wise? Character-wise?


Doesnt all good comics stories,have to be Visually,Story and character wise?

In my opinion i think you have to acomplish all those things,mate.

And good luck for your project.

[Shellhead]

I seem to recall that back in the mid 80's (it was during my freshman year at college so it would have been 1986 or 1987), Spin magazine ran an article about cyberpunk literature by either Tim Leary (yes, *that* Tim Leary) or Robert Anton Wilson. It was a great article, in which he made the case that the progenitor of the genre could be found in the second section (called Into The Zone) of Thomas Pynchon's gargantuan novel *Gravity's Rainbow*.

Would anyone happen to have a copy?

Bah, I would give more credit for the cyberpunk genre to Doug Moench and Rich Buckler for their work on Deathlok in Astonishing Tales, back in 1974. Deathlok wasn't just a cyborg, he was an alienated survivor struggling against the industrial-military complex in the ruins of a shattered society. There was even a holographic cyberspace representation late in that run, when Deathlok confronted Ryker.

[howyadoin]

Bah, I would give more credit for the cyberpunk genre to Doug Moench and Rich Buckler for their work on Deathlok in Astonishing Tales, back in 1974. Deathlok wasn't just a cyborg, he was an alienated survivor struggling against the industrial-military complex in the ruins of a shattered society. There was even a holographic cyberspace representation late in that run, when Deathlok confronted Ryker.On a related note, then, how about the Octotympanum-Viewscope in the classic Killraven story, "Only the Computer Shows Me Any Respect"?

[Shellhead]

On a related note, then, how about the Octotympanum-Viewscope in the classic Killraven story, "Only the Computer Shows Me Any Respect"?

Hmm, maybe. Was that the issue that sort of introduced the Iron Man of 2020?

[howyadoin]

Hmm, maybe. Was that the issue that sort of introduced the Iron Man of 2020?You might be right. Didn't Killraven fight off versions of a whole bunch of Marvel heroes?

Mainly, though, I was thinking about how Hawk's father spent almost all of his time jacked into a series of Sherlock Holmes-like adventures. Definitely a prescient story for its time.

[Doodle Bob]

Bah, I would give more credit for the cyberpunk genre to Doug Moench and Rich Buckler for their work on Deathlok in Astonishing Tales, back in 1974. Deathlok wasn't just a cyborg, he was an alienated survivor struggling against the industrial-military complex in the ruins of a shattered society. There was even a holographic cyberspace representation late in that run, when Deathlok confronted Ryker.

This (http://project.cyberpunk.ru/idb/leary_cyberpunks.html) was the article I was thinking of.

[ruined harvest]

Transmetropolitan is quintessential cyberpunk, but that doesn't mean I hold it in high regards. haha

[sHayden]

I'm not completely sure if you would consider it Cyberpunk but I think Idoru is Gibson's best work. When that guy wants to "marry" that idol singer..well scarily enough people are now talking about doing similar things with robots.
Think of it..a society where our social interaction and physical coupling is done with fleshbots. It sort of gives me the heebie jeebies.

[Seraphex]

I want it to be good. Other than that, if you can't come up with your own ideas, don't bother.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but if the series is launching later this year, shouldn't things like the look, story and characters be more or less already worked out? If they aren't, that really doesn't bode well.

Heh, point taken, and well deserved.

The scripts for the first story arc of Hard Drive are written and the artist is slaving away. A website will be up in a few months. We're using a model similar to Ellis' Freakangels.

A taste of Hard Drive is up at Comicspace, the first few pages that have been marinating for a while.

Be gentle.

[Seraphex]

Totally in agreement. The whole thing sounds ill-conceived at best, if not more than a little fishy.

Fishy? Carp or tuna?

The first story arc is all hammered out, fear not.