Sad day in baseball...

[kingdom2000]

Barry Bonds hit homer 715 surpassing Babe Ruth, proven beyond all doubt that cheater do in fact win. Be careful ever saying the opposite to your child because now all they have to do is smirk and point to Barry Bonds to prove otherwise.

The one "bright" spot is that Bonds is obviousily no longer useing steroids as he seems to be losing mass and is back to his pre-steroids homer average of about one a week or so. That means in desperation to get the attention for Hank Aaron, he may gamble and take steroids again. Sadly though, I have a feeling that baseball will look the other way for the attention such an event will get.

[glue]

I really don't give a shit about Bonds passing Ruth for two reasons. First of all, everybody knows he cheated. It's not like people are going to forget that once he's gone. And most importantly because people won't be nearly as upset if/when he passes Aaron.

And the only way I see him passing Aaron is if he gets traded to an AL team where he can be a DH. Even then, though, I don't think he will because I don't think he cares as much about passing Aaron as he did Ruth. 714 was the most celebrated second best stat ever. Now it'll be the third best and still be held in higher esteem than Bonds' (understandably) and Aaron's numbers.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Barry Bonds hit homer 715 surpassing Babe Ruth, proven beyond all doubt that cheater do in fact win. Be careful ever saying the opposite to your child because now all they have to do is smirk and point to Barry Bonds to prove otherwise.

The one "bright" spot is that Bonds is obviousily no longer useing steroids as he seems to be losing mass and is back to his pre-steroids homer average of about one a week or so. That means in desperation to get the attention for Hank Aaron, he may gamble and take steroids again. Sadly though, I have a feeling that baseball will look the other way for the attention such an event will get.

I sure that alot of people care, if the Home Run record is beat. I just can't work up enough vitrol to care. The sad thing is even if Bonds beats record (clean or on steriods or proven that he never took any steriods) that the achievement will always be tarnished no matter what.

I mean, Bonds could clear everything up by taking a physical and a steriods test. I'm sure that even, if he isn't on steriods now that there are tests that can find out if he ever did. I would think that Bonds would do everything that he could to clear his reputation and name.

[taintedlunch]

Most people don't care. Only the media cares.

It doesn't bother me about Bonds passing Ruth because Bonds is a better athelete than Ruth who achieved his record against superior competition.

To cheat, it has to be against the rules, right?

[Legato]

I dont give a rats ass since Hank Aaron was the first one to break Ruth's record anyways.

I dont really see the fuss behind Bonds since we do have a cheater in the White House.

[Bob Violence]

I sure that alot of people care, if the Home Run record is beat. I just can't work up enough vitrol to care. The sad thing is even if Bonds beats record (clean or on steriods or proven that he never took any steriods) that the achievement will always be tarnished no matter what.

I mean, Bonds could clear everything up by taking a physical and a steriods test. I'm sure that even, if he isn't on steriods now that there are tests that can find out if he ever did. I would think that Bonds would do everything that he could to clear his reputation and name.
Not bloody likely!
Have you seen any old pictures of Bonds? He was lean and fast, not bulky. He has changed his body type through steroids. Take a look at old Barry and new Barry and there will be no doubt.
The sad thing is, he was a great player before the steroids, the best of his generation. He is angry and bitter now, but it's his own fault.

[Royal]

Oh.

I thought this thread had something important in it.

Like a point.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Oh.

I thought this thread had something important in it.

Like a point.


It does.....Barry Bonds is a no good bastard cheater and he's winning by breaking records. If people wanna blame someone...blame MLB who sold thier souls long ago to drug users ect ect. Least Pete Rose is outta the game...people can rest easy that Pete Rose isn't betting on the game now lol. ;)

[NickThompson]

End of the day, he's still only second. And remember, 2nd best is simply 1st loser :)

[Sean Walsh]

Just remember, as I just did when seeing a sign at a Barry Bonds game....

RUTH DID IT ON HOT DOGS AND BEER.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Just remember, as I just did when seeing a sign at a Barry Bonds game....

RUTH DID IT ON HOT DOGS AND BEER.

It should have had : " AND CIGARS,TOO!"

[malephoenix]

I dont give a rats ass since Hank Aaron was the first one to break Ruth's record anyways.

I dont really see the fuss behind Bonds since we do have a cheater in the White House.

And have had, for over a dozen years, now.

[Rhydaman]

It should have had : " AND CIGARS,TOO!"
And amphetamines? All the old films make players look as though they were on speed, anyway.

[Lubichev]

Bond's body won't last long enough to reach Aaron's record. Unless he gets a DR. (Designated runner).

[The Humanist Hero]

Well I hope everyone who's so outraged by Bonds will be just as outraged, or even more so, if Mark McGwire gets voted into the Hall of Fame this year.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Bond's body won't last long enough to reach Aaron's record. Unless he gets a DR. (Designated runner).


There is talk that as a Free Agent he could go to a team and be a DH. The team that gets him will see attendance go up if he chooses to race after Aaron's record.

[Lubichev]

Well I hope everyone who's so outraged by Bonds will be just as outraged, or even more so, if Mark McGwire gets voted into the Hall of Fame this year.
Certainly.

[The Humanist Hero]

Certainly.
Well, there's a good chance of it happening (or if not this year, then eventually). And McGwire always seems to be left out of the steroids conversation while, in reality, there's no more proof of Bond's cheating than there is of McGwire cheating.

Not to mention the fact that while under oath, McGwire refused to state that he didn't use steroids while he played. He seems guilty as hell to me.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Well, there's a good chance of it happening (or if not this year, then eventually). And McGwire always seems to be left out of the steroids conversation while, in reality, there's no more proof of Bond's cheating than there is of McGwire cheating.

Not to mention the fact that while under oath, McGwire refused to state that he didn't use steroids while he played. He seems guilty as hell to me.


You have to understand in 1998/1999 there was no banning of the steriod McGwire was taking. Andro was not a banned substance..at that time. Mark admitted to taking it saying it helped him heal up faster among other health issues.

Now once MLB started work on banning it Mark of course said he would stop using it and he did. His injuries caught up to him and 2 to 3 seasons later he retired.


Now how does McGwire answer this question under oath ? That the steriod he took was legal at one time and now it necame a banned substance the next year ? I can see why he took the 5th. It was easier than syaing this.

[The Humanist Hero]

You have to understand in 1998/1999 there was no banning of the steriod McGwire was taking. Andro was not a banned substance..at that time. Mark admitted to taking it saying it helped him heal up faster among other health issues.

Now once MLB started work on banning it Mark of course said he would stop using it and he did. His injuries caught up to him and 2 to 3 seasons later he retired.


Now how does McGwire answer this question under oath ? That the steriod he took was legal at one time and now it necame a banned substance the next year ? I can see why he took the 5th. It was easier than syaing this.
Well, you can choose to interpret it that way if you want, but he still refused to answer the question under oath. If he did nothing wrong, then he had nothing to hide and he should have answered it.

And, of course, you don't know he wasn't taking any banned steroids. You just assume he wasn't. Of course, everyone assumes Bonds does. And there is no proof for any of this.

The bottom line is that Bonds has become the scapegoat for a whole generation of baseball players who used steroids and will soon be eligible for the Hall of Fame. If McGwire, Sosa and the rest are given passes and allowed to get into the Hall, then the treatment Bonds is getting is hypocritical at best.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Well, you can choose to interpret it that way if you want, but he still refused to answer the question under oath. If he did nothing wrong, then he had nothing to hide and he should have answered it.

They wanted to know if he took steriods. Of course he could go into the long explanation of the legallity of the steriod he admitted to in 1998 and was later banned . Or he could listen to his obvious legal counsel who I'm sure said " Plead the 5th " because they woulda tore him a new ass there.

And, of course, you don't know he wasn't taking any banned steroids. You just assume he wasn't. Of course, everyone assumes Bonds does. And there is no proof for any of this.

All weknow is what Mark McGwire admitted to using in 1998 and that was andro and createin ( spelling). Could he taken other illegal drugs...no clue. But he answered truthfully there and stopped using when it became banned.

Bonds has claimed that someone slipped him creme ( which I accepted as a reasonable answer) that he had no clue was a steriod product. Plus Bonds trainer was one of the guys busted in the Victor Conte scandel. But a new book has pretty much caused major hell and that Ken Griffey Jr was there when Bonds claimed he was gonna start taking rods . Griffey ( and I haven't seen it..yet) hasn't claimed this as false. Plus Bonds may face perjury charges for telling things under a Grand Jury.

The bottom line is that Bonds has become the scapegoat for a whole generation of baseball players who used steroids and will soon be eligible for the Hall of Fame.

Bonds own actions have made him a scapegoat. His anger at the media ( I've seen his act...fuck you....fuck you....fuck you I'm Barry Bonds routine) and anger people would question him for bulking up a lot.

Bonds lying and the fact the book has opened up a new can of worms. Also possibly commiting perjury to a Grand Jury can cause this .

If McGwire, Sosa and the rest are given passes and allowed to get into the Hall, then the treatment Bonds is getting is hypocritical at best.

Sosa and McGwire was smart enough to plead the 5th and not testify. Bonds was not and is being raked over the coals for a reason. He should have consulted a lawyer and not made any statements that would catch up later to him.

[The Humanist Hero]

They wanted to know if he took steriods. Of course he could go into the long explanation of the legallity of the steriod he admitted to in 1998 and was later banned . Or he could listen to his obvious legal counsel who I'm sure said " Plead the 5th " because they woulda tore him a new ass there.



All weknow is what Mark McGwire admitted to using in 1998 and that was andro and createin ( spelling). Could he taken other illegal drugs...no clue. But he answered truthfully there and stopped using when it became banned.

Bonds has claimed that someone slipped him creme ( which I accepted as a reasonable answer) that he had no clue was a steriod product. Plus Bonds trainer was one of the guys busted in the Victor Conte scandel. But a new book has pretty much caused major hell and that Ken Griffey Jr was there when Bonds claimed he was gonna start taking rods . Griffey ( and I haven't seen it..yet) hasn't claimed this as false. Plus Bonds may face perjury charges for telling things under a Grand Jury.



Bonds own actions have made him a scapegoat. His anger at the media ( I've seen his act...fuck you....fuck you....fuck you I'm Barry Bonds routine) and anger people would question him for bulking up a lot.

Bonds lying and the fact the book has opened up a new can of worms. Also possibly commiting perjury to a Grand Jury can cause this .



Sosa and McGwire was smart enough to plead the 5th and not testify. Bonds was not and is being raked over the coals for a reason. He should have consulted a lawyer and not made any statements that would catch up later to him.
None of this addresses the topic of the thread which is outrage that Bonds cheated by taking steroids. There is no proof of this, just allegations and assumptions and conjectures based upon Bonds' physique. The same can be said for Sosa and McGwire. McGwire is up for the Hall of Fame this year and yet there is no outrage concerning him. There is a clear double standard here. If Bonds is to be excoriated for cheating with no proof, then so should Sosa and McGwire be excoriated. If someone wants to argue that Bonds is an asshole who deserves what he gets then fine. But that's hardly the same thing.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

None of this addresses the topic of the thread which is outrage that Bonds cheated by taking steroids. There is no proof of this, just allegations and assumptions and conjectures based upon Bonds' physique. The same can be said for Sosa and McGwire. McGwire is up for the Hall of Fame this year and yet there is no outrage concerning him. There is a clear double standard here. If Bonds is to be excoriated for cheating with no proof, then so should Sosa and McGwire be excoriated. If someone wants to argue that Bonds is an asshole who deserves what he gets then fine. But that's hardly the same thing.


The part where he may face Perjury charges is pretty much a condeming factor. He lied...people view Barry as a liar. At least McGwire admitted to his steriod in 1998 , they accept that and will debate his Hall of Fame status. ( Odds are he won't get in on this balet....)

Barry is getting this because he lied in front of a Grand Jury.

[Jmacq1]

Quite frankly, if they're going to ban players from the Hall of Fame for using steroids/illegal/banned substances during their baseball careers, then they may as well shut the Hall of Fame down for about 10-20 years....because I'm willing to bet just about every "Hall of Fame" worthy player that's currently playing the game has probably used them at some point or another.

Not saying using the stuff is right, mind you, but I never cared enough about Baseball for it to matter to me, personally. ;)

[Dreadstar]

I'm pretty sure that the performance enhancing substances used by Bonds and Maguire were not banned substances in MLB. As long as Bonds continues to follow the rules involving banned substances (which, I believe, now includes his one-time drug of choice) I don't have any problem with him going 800 HRs.

Well, other than the fact that he's an irritating asshole, that is.

Oh, and if I had a ballot for HOF this year? Damn straight Maguire would be on that bitch.

[The Humanist Hero]

Also, for those who think that Bonds' records should either be abolished, or that there should be an asterisk next to them--

What about Jason Giambi's numbers? When are they going to put an asterisk next to them?

What about Ken Caminiti? When is his MVP award going to be posthumously rescinded since he admitted to using steroids during the season he won it.

Both of these guys admitted to using steroids, yet nothing's been done about them. So why the big to-do about Bonds?

[Monkey Boy]

The way i look at it is that we as a country asked for this. We wanted to see the long ball. People love homeruns and what better way to do it then to juice up. So most people need to just leave Bonds alone and let him finish off his career whenever and that may be. Yeah i don't really like him. Not cause of the steroids but because he does seem like an ass but most of that is cause every damn question out of the medias mouth is usually about steroids. Personally i think i'd get a little tired up answering the same bullshit questions over and over again.

As for him breaking Hank Aaron's record, I say go for it. Records are ment to be broken. It doesn't make Aaron's achievements less important. And until hes proven guilty i believe hes done nothing wrong.

[Citizen V]

Barry Bonds hit homer 715 surpassing Babe Ruth, proven beyond all doubt that cheater do in fact win. Be careful ever saying the opposite to your child because now all they have to do is smirk and point to Barry Bonds to prove otherwise.

Like it was mentioned before,i dont care either.Since he cheated,i wont make refrences to it,and i wont acknowlage it.As far as i am concerned,he did not pass it.

[Cam63]

Our cricketers have broken records on a diet of fatty food, cigarettes and beer.

Baseball.... Meh !

[jerrymcl89]

I'm a big baseball fan, but not overly troubled by Bonds. If people can make millions of dollars doing something which is against the rules, but which there is no enforcement of, they naturally will do it. I don't admire Bonds, but Bud Selig and Don Fehr created the doorway, and he just walked through it.

As far as the record, I'm attaching my own mental asterisk to it, but then again, I attach one to most records. This guy did steroids. That guy corked his bat. This guy played only day games. That guy only played against white people. This guy plays in Coors field. All records are a matter of context, and we kid ourselves if we pretend otherwise.