Comic Book Urban Legends Suggestions Thread

[Brian Cronin]

Someone mentioned this as a good idea for a thread, and I agree.

So here, make any suggestions you'd like to see addressed in a future installment of Comic Book Urban Legends Revealed!

Please note that, occasionally, if I find one that I'd like to use, I may remove it from the thread, to maximize the surprise factor when the urban legend is actually used (I always credit the person who suggested it, though!).

So let's see some suggestions! :)

-Brian

[Gordon Smith]

Hah! I was thinking about this one last night at work. Here is my suggestion. Many people appear to believe that Frank Miller is responsible for turning Batman into an unlikeable jerk who cannot get along with other people. This is not true. Batman had started becoming an unlikeable jerk with questionable people skills long before Miller supposedly rebranded him as such in Dark Knight Returns.

After all, by the time Wolfman and Perez came out with the new Titans in 1980, Batman and Robin had been experiencing great difficulties in getting along since the 1970's. Their relationship was perenially stormy and awkard for one reaon or another. Then Batman had a falling out with Superman in the pages of World's Finest in an arc that lasted for several issues before the series climaxed (and was cancelled) with #300. And then there was Batman's falling out with the JLA at large that led him to form Batman and the Outsiders (he would be reconciled with the JLA in #200 of that title).

While these were comparatively mild examples when contrasted to Bruce's current purported behaviour, they all predate DKR and show clearly that Batman was already being viewed as someone who was becoming progressively isolated from his friends. Frank Miller may have taken the concept and run with it, but it wasn't his idea to begin with. I think that qualifies as a ''Comic Book Urban Legend''.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Hah! I was thinking about this one last night at work. Here is my suggestion. Many people appear to believe that Frank Miller is responsible for turning Batman into an unlikeable jerk who cannot get along with other people. This is not true. Batman had started becoming an unlikeable jerk with questionable people skills long before Miller supposedly rebranded him as such in Dark Knight Returns.

After all, by the time Wolfman and Perez came out with the new Titans in 1980, Batman and Robin had been experiencing great difficulties in getting along since the 1970's. Their relationship was perenially stormy and awkard for one reaon or another. Then Batman had a falling out with Superman in the pages of World's Finest in an arc that lasted for several issues before the series climaxed (and was cancelled) with #300. And then there was Batman's falling out with the JLA at large that led him to form Batman and the Outsiders (he would be reconciled with the JLA in #200 of that title).

While these were comparatively mild examples when contrasted to Bruce's current purported behaviour, they all predate DKR and show clearly that Batman was already being viewed as someone who was becoming progressively isolated from his friends. Frank Miller may have taken the concept and run with it, but it wasn't his idea to begin with. I think that qualifies as a ''Comic Book Urban Legend''.

Eh, I dunno. Sure, there were bits, but the portrayal of Batman in the comics took a major, and immediate, turn toward the dickery right after DARK KNIGHT.

Keep in mind, though, I don't consider that Miller's fault, so much as I consider it the fault of editors who wanted to draw on DARK KNIGHT in hopes of sales, and later writers much the inferior of Miller.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I've suggested it to you before Brian, though you cold heartedly ignored it (Bastard!), but the final issues of DV8 credited to Warren Ellis were scripted by someone else, Shon Bury (I believe).

Ellis claims that an over eager editor got them re-scripted/rescripted them themselves, while Shon Bury claims it was nessecary, as all Warren had time to do was provide a brief outline, and he had to script them follow Warren's plot, and I believe, he blames the plots for the reason the books weren't of a great category.

Won't you gimme some truth?
All I want is some truth!

Edit:

Oh, this is maybe two, and maybe not even an urban legend, but some closure would be nice...

I've heard Alan Moore had lots more planned for ABC comic but this never happened due to him leaving ABC, which he did because Paul Levitz pulped an issue of LoEG. Is this ture? Any chance of finding out what they are?
Also, I heard he only found out about the sale of Wildstorm/ABC to DC because Rich Johnston told him. Is that true, and how could it happen?
And was he really paid by DC through a firewall company called 'Firewall'?

[Brian Cronin]

I never ignore urban legend suggestions!!

I check 'em all out! If I find enough info to be sure yes or no, I'll post 'em! I haven't found out enough of the Dv8 thing to confirm it one way or the other!

-Brian

[Sir Tim Drake]

I've heard that the Comics Code stamp was left off the covers of X-Men #137 and Captain America #249 because both issues depicted a suicide. But I've also heard that the stamp was omitted simply because the covers were being redesigned that month. Perhaps you could determine which of these is the real explanation.

[scratchie]

I don't know if this is really an urban legend, but I remember a friend of mine telling me (back in the day) that Dave Cockrum had been replaced as artist on X-Men because he was too slow and couldn't get the book out on a monthly schedule. So they were pulling in that new guy who was drawing Iron Fist. I guess the urban legend (such as it is) is that if Cockrum had drawn faster, there never would have been a "Claremont/Byrne X-Men" run.

[OzBat!]

These are all lame. I wanna hear about REAL urban legends, like the Yowie that lives in the DC writers den!

[Dash-Dot]

Some Suggestions:

1. I've heard from a few people that Jim Lee refuses to work for Marvel until Joe Quesada is no longer in charge. Fact? Fiction? Blown out of proportion?

2. Avi Arad's recent departure from Marvel Entertainment was predominantly due to his attempts to control the comic book properties, in addition to the film properties, in an effort to make them easier to sell.

3. Also, Avi Arad and Marvel almost had a massive falling out after Garth Ennis' Marvel Max series about Nick Fury derailed a big-budget feature adaptation which was to star George Clooney, because of its "mature" portrayal of the character.

4. Joe Kelly and Steve Seagle, during their run on X-Men and Uncanny X-Men, were told at the zero hour that they couldn't kill either Marrow or Psylocke, leading to finished stories that made no one happy.

5. The ending of Infinite Crisis was reworked at the last minute, altering the original ending which would reportedly have brought back the multi-verse, into its current state.

[joshdahl]

Rumor was the Stan Lee's original outline for teh FF issue that introdGalactus was one sentence...something like this... "The Fantastic Four meet God."

Josh

[Grazzt]

Rumour has it that Mystique was originally supposed to be Rogue's biological father, with Destiny being the mother.

[Brian Cronin]

I believe that's Nightcrawler, as covered here (http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2005/09/01/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-14/).

-Brian

[slam]

I'm not sure if it counts as an urban legend as I know it to be true, but Gene Ha took suggestions from the DC Comics boards for the background cameos towards the end of Top 10.

[Jeremy A. Patterson]

I have two:


Both Marvel & Archie gave, respectively, the X-Men's Storm & Archie's Pal Jughead mohawk hairdos in order to attract the punk rock crowd.


Little Dot started out in an art style completely different from the Harvey 'house style'!


J.A.P.

[Jamescush]

I have one that's always been bugging me.
I've heard that the Wildstorm mini series 'Fire From Heaven # 2' was really written by Warren Ellis and not Alan Moore.
However I've seen interviews where Ellis says he didn't write it.
So who did?:confused:

Thanks.

Oh I always enjoy the Comics Should Be Good site. LOL:D

[BillR]

So, is it TRUE that Jim Shooter is actually a lizard creature from beyond the stars?

[90'sCartoonMan]

Whoa, that's a cool thing you got going there! I've only read about half of it so far (a LOT of stuff I didn't know, was wondering about those Thunderstrike sales and what happened to Charcoal), but I can think up some that may or may not have been covered already.

Was Jubilee originally created to be Wolverine's Robin?

Did Kurt Busiek try to get the Avengers and JLA titles to cross over rather than doing a mini?

Is it true that the Elseworlds Secret Files and Origins was only released in England?

[ednemo]

What Marvel artist did Warren Ellis have blackballed in the 90s for changing the ending of his book?

[algertman]

What Marvel artist did Warren Ellis have blackballed in the 90s for changing the ending of his book?


Was it the guy who did DOOM 2099?

[pennywisdom]

Wasn't there a rumor about DC being haunted when it was located at 666 Fifth Ave.?

[Jamescush]

What Marvel artist did Warren Ellis have blackballed in the 90s for changing the ending of his book?
That would be Mat Broome on X-Men/WildCATS: The Dark Age.

Chuck Dixon also had problems with Broome changing the story of Batman 571. http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=pipeline&article=105

Or it could of been some other Marvel artist...LOL;)

[Cei-U!]

How about the various stories about Steve Ditko's departure from Amazing Spider-Man?

The most common version is that Steve and Stan disagreed about Green Goblin's true identity, with Ditko wanting Gobby to be a total unknown (an idea they'd already done once with the Crime-Master) and Stan arguing (rightfully, I believe) that it would be cheating the readers. Another variant had Ditko wanting Jonah Jameson to be the Goblin and Stan being loathe to lose one of his favorite characters to write. Yet another claimed that SD wanted GG to be the burglar who murdered Uncle Ben.

Finally, a frequent letterhack I met back in college claimed that Ditko wanted Betty Brant to die in a car crash as a way of showing that life is arbitrary and indifferent to our conception of good and evil. Stan balked at this, claiming it was unjustified dramatically.

I suspect the truth is that Ditko, like Jack Kirby, felt that The Man was claiming credit for (and making money) off his storytelling skills and left for greener pastures. Still, it might be fun to see how many theories have been advanced about this minor mystery.

Cei-U!
Thinks the Goblin shoulda been Aunt May!

[jcdenton]

Here's a few that were posted on the Snopes.com message boards a while back. None were definitively proven or disproven.

-Supposedly, comic book publishers banned the words 'flick' and 'flicker' from scripts on the grounds that, when lettered, the 'l' and 'i' could run together in the cheap letterpress printing to form a 'u'.

-Supposedly artist Alex Toth, when an editor balked at giving him his check, suspended said editor from a window, ten stories above the streets of New York.

-Many comic book distributors were supposed to be mob fronts. The tale goes that, with the repeal of Prohibition, the Mob had fleets of trucks and no product, so they switched to distributing (among other things) comics.

http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/ubb/get_topic/f/30/t/002610.html

[Cei-U!]

-Supposedly, comic book publishers banned the words 'flick' and 'flicker' from scripts on the grounds that, when lettered, the 'l' and 'i' could run together in the cheap letterpress printing to form a 'u'.


According to the Steranko History of Comics, DC did indeed have this codified into their list of rules for creators in the mid-40s for precisely that reason. (My guess is the printing problem cited did happen and somebody's parent complained.) Unfortunately, Steranko doesn't cite a source for this claim.

Cei-U!
Anybody out there got a copy of those 60-year-old rules?

[Brian Cronin]

Yeah, at least the first two have been repeated so often that they PROBABLY are true, but it's one of those cases of not having a good enough source to go with. Very much a third-party thing.

The last one, though, I've heard a few times as well, and I think that's gonna be even harder to actually prove, as it actually requires proof of something illegal, ya know?

But those are all fine suggestions. Just wish we could prove 'em.

-Brian

[MWGallaher]

-Supposedly, comic book publishers banned the words 'flick' and 'flicker' from scripts on the grounds that, when lettered, the 'l' and 'i' could run together in the cheap letterpress printing to form a 'u'.

There's a CBR poster on these boards that capitalizes on this phenomenon, with the username CL*NT FL*CK*R...

[founder81]

How about the various stories about Steve Ditko's departure from Amazing Spider-Man?

The most common version is that Steve and Stan disagreed about Green Goblin's true identity, with Ditko wanting Gobby to be a total unknown (an idea they'd already done once with the Crime-Master) and Stan arguing (rightfully, I believe) that it would be cheating the readers. Another variant had Ditko wanting Jonah Jameson to be the Goblin and Stan being loathe to lose one of his favorite characters to write. Yet another claimed that SD wanted GG to be the burglar who murdered Uncle Ben.

I've heard another version of this. Ditko wanted Ned Leeds to be the GG, and Lee wanted Osborne. I heard this somewear on the interent, so its not exactly a notable source.

Urban Legend suggestion

Not sure if this is an intersting bit of trivia or an urban legendish thing.

Steve Gerber "Stole" Howard the Duck from marvel druing the Marvel Team-Up / Savage Dragon & Destroyer Duck psuedo-crossover. All the characters end in a warehouse and fight some big baddies. In the Marvel part Howard walks off with Spider-man. In the Savage Dragon part, some event cause many duplicates of Howard to spawn and a duplicate is mentioned as leaving with Spider-man. The real Howard goes into witness recollection, dyes his feathers black and changes his name to Leonard.

[Cei-U!]

I've heard another version of this. Ditko wanted Ned Leeds to be the GG, and Lee wanted Osborne. I heard this somewear on the interent, so its not exactly a notable source.

That's the version I couldn't remember! I've been going batshit since I posted trying to think of it. Thanks!

Cei-U!
Now I can go back to obsessing over Earth-2 minutiae!

[Radical]

I dunno if this counts, or if it's already been done on CBULR, but:

The idea that the Human Torch was absent from both the Fantastic Four cartoon (the one with H.E.R.B.I.E.) and Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends because the studio bigwigs were afraid that kids would set themselves on fire...

(deep breath)

...is a myth. The real reason is that someone else already had the rights to the Human Torch for some reason.

[Cei-U!]

I dunno if this counts, or if it's already been done on CBULR, but:

The idea that the Human Torch was absent from both the Fantastic Four cartoon (the one with H.E.R.B.I.E.) and Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends because the studio bigwigs were afraid that kids would set themselves on fire...

(deep breath)

...is a myth. The real reason is that someone else already had the rights to the Human Torch for some reason.

Universal Studios, who had already produced Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, Captain America and Hulk TV-movies, had the rights locked up. If memory serves, it was their live-action project that was supposedly nixed by the aforementioned bigwigs for the aforementioned reason.

Cei-U!
I summon the krispy kiddies!

[algertman]

I dunno if this counts, or if it's already been done on CBULR, but:

The idea that the Human Torch was absent from both the Fantastic Four cartoon (the one with H.E.R.B.I.E.) and Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends because the studio bigwigs were afraid that kids would set themselves on fire...

(deep breath)

...is a myth. The real reason is that someone else already had the rights to the Human Torch for some reason.

OK, that makes alot more sense now.

[algertman]

CHARCOAL update. You mention CHARCOAL, from Thunderbolts fame, was killed off due to rights issues. Did those get squared away? Cause the new Heroclix set "MARVEL: SINISTER" has him in it

[Tommy]

All right. I have seen this one come up over and over again, and as of yet NO ONE has ever been able to produce a single shred of proof for it no matter how many times I have asked.

Apparently some one somewhere decided that Marvel's Secret Wars copied DC's Crisis on the Infinite Earths. Which makes no sense considering that Secrete Wars came out a year in advance, and the changes Secret Wars brought about also came out a year in advance.

[Gingold]

All right. I have seen this one come up over and over again, and as of yet NO ONE has ever been able to produce a single shred of proof for it no matter how many times I have asked.

Apparently some one somewhere decided that Marvel's Secret Wars copied DC's Crisis on the Infinite Earths. Which makes no sense considering that Secrete Wars came out a year in advance, and the changes Secret Wars brought about also came out a year in advance.

From what I remember of interviews I've seen with Marv Wolfman, Crisis was in development for about 4 or 5 years before it came out. I don't think Secret Wars was so much a copy of any specific story elements from Crisis, but a realization that DC was working on a big maxiseries featuring all of its characters, so Marvel- realizing that this thing was going to be big- made a decision to put theirs out first.

[Hellpop]

Hey Brian, I mentioned this in one of the previous Urban Legends responses, but I can understand that you may have missed it there, so...

George Perez was asked in an old interview about a rumor that Marv Wolfman had slipped in a panel in COIE that showed the Marvel Universe being destroyed. Perez laughed and said he didn't know anything, you'd have to ask Marv. I would dismiss this entirely except that the interviewer, David Anthony Kraft, was an industry professional and would have the sources to make such a rumor not unfounded.

So, my question(s): is this true (duh)? If so, what panel? And if not, where and why did such a rumor start?

I thank you in advance; you could wipe out something that has haugnted me for years!!

[Agentum]

How about the various stories about Steve Ditko's departure from Amazing Spider-Man?

The most common version is that Steve and Stan disagreed about Green Goblin's true identity, with Ditko wanting Gobby to be a total unknown (an idea they'd already done once with the Crime-Master) and Stan arguing (rightfully, I believe) that it would be cheating the readers. Another variant had Ditko wanting Jonah Jameson to be the Goblin and Stan being loathe to lose one of his favorite characters to write. Yet another claimed that SD wanted GG to be the burglar who murdered Uncle Ben.

Finally, a frequent letterhack I met back in college claimed that Ditko wanted Betty Brant to die in a car crash as a way of showing that life is arbitrary and indifferent to our conception of good and evil. Stan balked at this, claiming it was unjustified dramatically.

I suspect the truth is that Ditko, like Jack Kirby, felt that The Man was claiming credit for (and making money) off his storytelling skills and left for greener pastures. Still, it might be fun to see how many theories have been advanced about this minor mystery.

Cei-U!
Thinks the Goblin shoulda been Aunt May!
I think you pinpoint it yourself, i too think he felt he didn't have full controll and was not getting the credit he wanted.
But we will probably never know this for sure as he wont tell us and will take that story to his grave.

But i can easly belive that Ditko wanted a unknown to be GG as he was much for that crime strikes in unpredicted ways.

Really both Ditko om Spider-man and Kirby on FF was doing most of the work themselves, but it was always Stan Lee that was written on everything.

And one more, Ditko did the cover for Amazing Fantasy 15 but Lee turned it down (but i think it's better than the one they used), and got Kirby to do the pencil for the cover AND Ditko have to ink it, imagine that, starting out bad:)

I'm not kicking on Stan Lee, he did a lot of things at the time, without him Marvel wouldn't be what it is.

[Brian Cronin]

Hey Brian, I mentioned this in one of the previous Urban Legends responses, but I can understand that you may have missed it there, so...

George Perez was asked in an old interview about a rumor that Marv Wolfman had slipped in a panel in COIE that showed the Marvel Universe being destroyed. Perez laughed and said he didn't know anything, you'd have to ask Marv. I would dismiss this entirely except that the interviewer, David Anthony Kraft, was an industry professional and would have the sources to make such a rumor not unfounded.

So, my question(s): is this true (duh)? If so, what panel? And if not, where and why did such a rumor start?

I thank you in advance; you could wipe out something that has haugnted me for years!!

Marv said no.

-Brian

[Gordon Smith]

I distinctly recall that there was a line in the Crisis series in which it was said that over a hundred superheroes in an alternate reality had been killed during some interdimensional upheaval. That was in a single throwaway panel. It didn't necessarily refer to Marvel in any event (although I certainly thought it had) and it would be a very easy thing for someone to forget about after twenty years.

[Brian Cronin]

True.

Sure LOOKS like Peter Parker.

-Brian

[LtMarvel]

Hey Brian, I mentioned this in one of the previous Urban Legends responses, but I can understand that you may have missed it there, so...

George Perez was asked in an old interview about a rumor that Marv Wolfman had slipped in a panel in COIE that showed the Marvel Universe being destroyed. Perez laughed and said he didn't know anything, you'd have to ask Marv. I would dismiss this entirely except that the interviewer, David Anthony Kraft, was an industry professional and would have the sources to make such a rumor not unfounded.

So, my question(s): is this true (duh)? If so, what panel? And if not, where and why did such a rumor start?

I thank you in advance; you could wipe out something that has haugnted me for years!!
If it makes you feel better, Alexander Luther destroyed the Marvel Universe in Infinite Crisis....

[Hellpop]

If it makes you feel better, Alexander Luther destroyed the Marvel Universe in Infinite Crisis....

That does not make me feel better. Unless he got Bendis and Quesada!:D

[RMThompson]

The biggest Urban Legend I heard was what the MILE HIGH COLLECTION had in it, and how he came about it, and furthermore... what he paid on it.

I've heard TONS of stories on this... but most I can assume is that it was mostly western and space comics from the 50's...

[Brian Cronin]

Oh, I actually got confirmation on a suggestion here.

I will be running it fairly soon (fairly could mean from a couple of weeks to next year ;)).

-Brian

[Kid Kyoto]

Did the story about Power girl's breasts (that Wally Wood drew them bigger every issue until someone told him to stop) ever get confirmed or denied?

IIRC in the Legion Companion published back in 2002 Keith Giffin (his assistant) at the time confirmed it but my copy is half a world away at the moment.

[Grunty]

Is it true that when Chris Claremont took over X-men for Revolution he was so disgusted by the character Marrow (because being a female X-men with a physical deforming powers) that he made a contract with Marvel that, if Marvel wanted to have him work for them in future titles they had to completly remove and ban the character Marrow from any core title?
A quasi retcon if you want.
Which would explain why she has not apeared or has ever been mentiod in a X-core title again, but is allowed to reapear or be named in other X-offspring titles (exiles, Weapon X) or other marvel titles.

After all its well know that he si highly disgusted by the character (i heared he told it a fan directly somewhere).

Another one.

Is it true that Apocalyps was original planned to be the mastermind behind the Weapon X programm having been the one who gave them the knowledge of how to create Adamantium?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I wish we'd get an answer on the Alpha Flight volume #2 debate. Because I know I have it somewhere where Bob Harras claims that AF wasn't cancelled due to low sales , but for the fact he didn't think anyone could do the job Steven Seagle had done on that as a series.

I know some here a long while back ( before the revamped boards) even posted it. Has your search ever uncovered anything Brian ?

[Stressfactor]

Couple of rumors I've heard over the years have been stuck in my head and I'd love to know the answers - yea or nay...

1) I remember hearing someone claim that at least *one* reason behind the "Electric Blue" Superman of the 1990's was an attempt by DC to circumnavigate a lawsuit by the family of either Seigel or Schuster. That, at the time, one of the family were trying to get the rights to the character back and DC changed Superman's powers and looks in an attempt to either A) Establish something new and thereby keep fans just in case they lost the rights to the "old" Superman or B) Try to establish a preceident that Seigel and Schuster's creation was not "unique" and "distinctive" and to prove it DC was going to change Superman and prove to the courts that even a drastically changed character with the same name would still sell just as well.


2) That in his run on The Question writer Denny O'Neil based Hub City on a real town -- East St. Louis, IL.

[Philip A Moore]

I wish we'd get an answer on the Alpha Flight volume #2 debate. Because I know I have it somewhere where Bob Harras claims that AF wasn't cancelled due to low sales , but for the fact he didn't think anyone could do the job Steven Seagle had done on that as a series.

I know some here a long while back ( before the revamped boards) even posted it. Has your search ever uncovered anything Brian ?

actully the sales was the reason for its end it was being produced at the same time Marvel was going through Bankrupsy so any comic that did not show a profit was ended the same thing happened to Ghost Rider as far as sigal that bit would not make since do to the fact the series only lasted 14 issues Seagle has always written more then that many issues the only exception I can think of was Xmen that was do to a editoriel disagreement

good day

[SUPERECWFAN1]

actully the sales was the reason for its end it was being produced at the same time Marvel was going through Bankrupsy so any comic that did not show a profit was ended the same thing happened to Ghost Rider as far as sigal that bit would not make since do to the fact the series only lasted 14 issues Seagle has always written more then that many issues the only exception I can think of was Xmen that was do to a editoriel disagreement

good day


Uhhh Alpha Flight volume #2 lasted 20 issues. And Ghost Rider by 1998 was canceled abruptly even with Marvel soliciting #94 as an issue.

[Philip A Moore]

Uhhh Alpha Flight volume #2 lasted 20 issues. And Ghost Rider by 1998 was canceled abruptly even with Marvel soliciting #94 as an issue.
yes but they were both canceled because of bad sales. Marvel was going through bankruptsy Alpha sold less then ten thousand copies and Marvel decided not publish any comic that few I remember there were quite a few writers that were mad about it wasnt the only comic that ended becauses that.
the only other one I can rember right off was Ghost Rider I am al so quoting the Ghostrider Spotlight speciel PS Idi not remember what issue alpha flight ended only why it end

good day

[Brian Cronin]

Occasionally, if a question is asked that I think I'll use (or, in the case of Omar Karindu, an answer given that I think I'll use), I'll temporarily make the comment invisible until the installment shows up - so we don't ruin any surprises for people. ;)

Credit is, of course, given in the installment when it comes out.

Just wanted to keep folks informed in case they saw some comments of theirs seemingly deleted.

-Brian

[tetsuo]

I always heard that AKIRA (published by Epic) is the first comic book that were colored digitally. Is this true?

[Berend]

I was reading back trough the entries and saw the "Superman once fought the KKK" myth. Now I had heard about that myth before, on the BBC show QI. On that show something quite extrordinary was said that I didn't see in the bit about the myth here: Aparently in the months following Supes battle with the klan, there number of new klan recruits dropped to the point that 0 new members where recruited for a few months!

So... was this omited from the article here because you didn't know about it, because it's not true, or was it there but did I miss it?

[dancj]

I don't often know the answers on QI, but that episode showed within about a week of the Urban Legends and I was on fire that episode!

[Chad]

I had heard that during his run on Spider-Man, David Michelene intended to have the super-hero's identity be exposed. While I don't know if I should be using the word "intended" or phrase "toyed with the idea of", I do remember an interview with Michelene in which he very briefly discussed this. Does anyone know anything more about this, or can anyone at least confirm that they've heard the same thing?

[dancj]

I reads somewhere (I think maybe in the Batman Black and White tpb) that Klaus Janson did the cover to the Beatles' Revolver album. I did look at my copy and the cover was credited to Klaus somthing (but not Janson), so could you confirm if this was the same Klaus and he changed his name or something or if someone had their wires crossed? I certainly can't see any similarity in the art styles

[Matthew E]

The art for Revolver seems to have been by Klaus Voorman, who was a longtime friend of the Beatles.

[Sean Walsh]

Reading the bit about STAR WARS #107 reminded me of an urban legend regarding the title and one of its creators:

Is it true that Lucasfilm (or maybe Marvel) prohibited Walt Simonson from drawing Darth Vader fighting Luke Skywalker? I suspect it's because he was on the book between ESB and ROTJ and that maybe they didn't want a ESB rematch in the comics but just in the 3rd movie of the trilogy...?

[Punch]

what was the deal with the beef between Frank Miller and Jim Lee/ Tim Sale? was it over Deathblow(on Lee's part)? This was back in the 90's, Miller had said something in a Sin City letter column about them aping his style. Any other info?

[mgs]

I believe that's Nightcrawler, as covered here (http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2005/09/01/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-14/).

-Brian

whoa! O.O thanks brian! they have that crazy one about Hulk Hogan, I never knew!! :)

[mgs]

That would be Mat Broome on X-Men/WildCATS: The Dark Age.

Chuck Dixon also had problems with Broome changing the story of Batman 571. http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=pipeline&article=105

Or it could of been some other Marvel artist...LOL;)

angain, whoa! that's what happened to that guy?!?! he was a pretty good artist from what I remember, I wonder why he'd screw himself over changing what the writer wanted in a book???

[Brian Cronin]

I was reading back trough the entries and saw the "Superman once fought the KKK" myth. Now I had heard about that myth before, on the BBC show QI. On that show something quite extrordinary was said that I didn't see in the bit about the myth here: Aparently in the months following Supes battle with the klan, there number of new klan recruits dropped to the point that 0 new members where recruited for a few months!

So... was this omited from the article here because you didn't know about it, because it's not true, or was it there but did I miss it?

That was seriously on QI? Yikes.

I don't know the info for sure, but that sounds quite bogus, if only for the sense of "Who, exactly, is counting those stats?"

What I made sure to not mention on that piece were the tons of unsubstantiated claims made regarding the effect of that episode upon the KKK. The ones I have read just seem to basically be wishful thinking.

-Brian

[Brian Cronin]

Reading the bit about STAR WARS #107 reminded me of an urban legend regarding the title and one of its creators:

Is it true that Lucasfilm (or maybe Marvel) prohibited Walt Simonson from drawing Darth Vader fighting Luke Skywalker? I suspect it's because he was on the book between ESB and ROTJ and that maybe they didn't want a ESB rematch in the comics but just in the 3rd movie of the trilogy...?

Yeah, sounds right. Although, to be honest, it might very well be worth an installment down the line, just to discuss the strict restrictions they were under on that comic book.

-Brian

[dancj]

what was the deal with the beef between Frank Miller and Jim Lee/ Tim Sale? was it over Deathblow(on Lee's part)? This was back in the 90's, Miller had said something in a Sin City letter column about them aping his style. Any other info?

Tim Sale talks about that here (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=9054)

Here's a quote:
TS: Well, it's an old story now and I feel like an old crone for telling it again, but the short version is back in the early '90s, Jim Lee and Brandon Choi were blown away by the first story-arc of Miller's "Sin City" and created an homage to that - at least visually - called "Deathblow." When Jim got too busy to work on the series, they hired me to continue, in the "Sin City" style. I did, had fun, but it seems Miller was upset that I (among a few other artists at the time) was emulating his "Sin City" style and called us out in a letters page. I had been given an assignment and had been assured it was all in good fun, as Jim and Frank were pals, and so I was surprised and hurt that the largest individual creative voice in comics was upset with me and in a very public forum. I just wish he had picked up the phone, that's all. No one's work is wholly original and I could list many direct influences I see on the "Sin City" style, all of those artists might have a beef with Miller, but that's not really the point. The handling of the misunderstanding is the point, that and the insulting implication that all I am is a Miller imitator, but there you go. Miller is nothing if not passionate, for better or worse.

[dancj]

The art for Revolver seems to have been by Klaus Voorman, who was a longtime friend of the Beatles.
Hmm... I'll have to try and find that quote....

[Berend]

That was seriously on QI? Yikes.

I don't know the info for sure, but that sounds quite bogus, if only for the sense of "Who, exactly, is counting those stats?"

What I made sure to not mention on that piece were the tons of unsubstantiated claims made regarding the effect of that episode upon the KKK. The ones I have read just seem to basically be wishful thinking.

-BrianAh, okay. I wouldn't knoe who's counting either. If someone would just tell me I'd be sceptical as well, but, I dunno... that guy from QI just seems like someone to believe I guess :D

[Brian Cronin]

I don't really blame them, to be honest (although, okay, I am a BIT surprised to see QI say stuff like that), because it is pretty darn common for these things to be repeated (and accepted) as fact. Heck, that's one of the biggest points OF the Urban Legends! :) To debunk stories that have just been accepted as truth because they've been told so many times.

-Brian

[Kevinroc]

I don't know if you've done this yet but there is one thing you might want to investigate.

Marvel Comics originally wanted Gravity to become Captain Marvel.

The story I heard was that Dwayne McDuffie was instructed to kill Gravity in Beyond, with the idea that Gravity would return to life under the moniker of Captain Marvel. Obviously this was changed once Marvel decided to have the original Captain Marvel travel through time.

[dancj]

Hmm... I'll have to try and find that quote....

I've looked and I can't find it now. It wasn't in the Batman: Black and White book and I can't think of anywhere else I could have read it - unless they put it in Batman/Spawn: War Devil which I've long since sold (on account of it being crap).

I did read it somewhere though. That's the only reason I ever looked to see who did the cover of Revolver and found it to be a different Klaus

[mgs]

Tim Sale talks about that here (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=9054)

Here's a quote:
TS: Well, it's an old story now and I feel like an old crone for telling it again, but the short version is back in the early '90s, Jim Lee and Brandon Choi were blown away by the first story-arc of Miller's "Sin City" and created an homage to that - at least visually - called "Deathblow."

deathblow was an homage to Frank Miller's Sin City? O.o

[xarathos]

deathblow was an homage to Frank Miller's Sin City? O.o

That's educational, I thought Deathblow was a shameless Punisher rip-off... or a type of gum.

[xarathos]

deathblow was an homage to Frank Miller's Sin City? O.o

That's educational, I thought Deathblow was a shameless Punisher rip-off... or a type of gum.


http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=pipeline&article=105

[Trouble]

So, is it TRUE that Jim Shooter is actually a lizard creature from beyond the stars?

Shhh.. yes.

[Omar Karindu]

1. Is there any truth to the accusations made here and there that non-EC comics companies basically gamed the Comics Code to run EC out of the business? This may be one of those indeterminable questions, since it was pretty clearly EC's comics and ideas that attracted ire in the first place, so EC was going to be hit hard by the CCA in any case. I'm just curious as to whether any documents or anything have ever surfaced to suggest that EC's coompetitors helped things along for their own benefit.

2. Was Bob Harras really fired as Marvel's EiC amid comments about someone's gay son?

3. Was the Squadron Supreme miniseries by Mark Gruenwald commissioned as a preemptive effort after news about Watchmen became known?

4. Did Grant Morrison really sneak the death of Magneto past Marvel editorical by deliberately sending his script in late, or did Marvel simply backpedal after the fact?

5. Is Mark Millar an ordained Presbyterian minister, as I've seen claimed here and there? And if not, where'd the rumor come from? (My guess: Millar.)

6. And, for a question that probably doesn't deserve an answer but certainly represents a long-floated Net rumor, anyone care to take a crack at the rumors that Chris Claremont's personal life isreflected by the bondage and mind-control themes prevalent in much of his comics work? Or was that just a nasty bit of Claremont-slander that took on a life of its own because of a kind of celebrity-baiting, wish-it-were-true, superficial plausibility?

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

6. And, for a question that probably doesn't deserve an answer but certainly represents a long-floated Net rumor, anyone care to take a crack at the rumors that Chris Claremont's personal life isreflected by the bondage and mind-control themes prevalent in much of his comics work? Or was that just a nasty bit of Claremont-slander that took on a life of its own because of a kind of celebrity-baiting, wish-it-were-true, superficial plausibility?


The Hellfire Club was a REAL club in New York City that was a leather/bondage sex club.....knowing this and the fact that he's a writer for 'childrens' books like comics....makes him a v. sick individual to include such a thing in this type of medium.

That and just simply hate the bastard for his crap stories and the way blindly dedicated fans over inflate everything he's done...yes his stories were good back when he was first on marvel....but everything since has been clear and utter shit....how the hell do you write STORM unable to control a friggin hurricane?!

[Tobias March]

The Hellfire Club was a REAL club in New York City that was a leather/bondage sex club.....knowing this and the fact that he's a writer for 'childrens' books like comics....makes him a v. sick individual to include such a thing in this type of medium.

That and just simply hate the bastard for his crap stories and the way blindly dedicated fans over inflate everything he's done...yes his stories were good back when he was first on marvel....but everything since has been clear and utter shit....how the hell do you write STORM unable to control a friggin hurricane?!

You sir or madam, are good people :)

[Omar Karindu]

The Hellfire Club was a REAL club in New York City that was a leather/bondage sex club.....knowing this and the fact that he's a writer for 'childrens' books like comics....makes him a v. sick individual to include such a thing in this type of medium.

Well, no, not exactly....the Hellfire Club was patently inspired by an ol episode of the Avengers TV show from England, aired long before the BDSM club of the early 80s ever opened. The Club members, as delineated in...gosh, one of Brian Cronin's earlier Urban Legends columns was based very heavily on that episode and its members on contemporary film and TV stars.

Besides, if you're complaining about the Hellfire Club arc, oughtn't you already be mad about prior storylines featuring Wolverine slashing people up with his claws, Xavier shacking up with a birdwoman from the stars while Cyclops' father boffs a skunk-woman, Proteus possessing his father in order to (implicitly) reenact the marital rape of his mother (Moira McTaggart) that produced him?

At any rate, I'm thinking more of the general BDSM subtext to Claremont's work, and the Net rumors one sees about his private life in relation to those subtextual (and sometimes textual) elements.

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

im not complaining about the Hellfire arc....but I'm more inclined to believe the walking heart attack created the arc out of something in his own 'backyard' such as the BDSM club rather than some random Avengers episode...did americans even GET those episodes when they were on?

As for his real life.....I try DESPERATELY NOT to visualize that 'polar bear' in a harness


and its Madame, Tobias, :) I feel like I'm at home with all these anti-claremont people...its SO liberating after being trapped over at Xfan

[Trouble]

im not complaining about the Hellfire arc....but I'm more inclined to believe the walking heart attack created the arc out of something in his own 'backyard' such as the BDSM club rather than some random Avengers episode...did americans even GET those episodes when they were on?

As for his real life.....I try DESPERATELY NOT to visualize that 'polar bear' in a harness


and its Madame, Tobias, :) I feel like I'm at home with all these anti-claremont people...its SO liberating after being trapped over at Xfan

Given your opinion, your board handle and avatar would seem ironic or at the very least hypocritical, yes?

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

Very much Ironic....but i'm inclined to believe that since comics are a series of stories written by more than one person....regardless of who "created" emma frost..she's been RECREATED many many times and those writers (morrison, ellis, milligan, carey, whedon,pak, etc.) deserve just as much credit.

[mgs]

I've not gone to, but I'm pretty sure the NYC Hellfire club IS still around. And yes, it's an S&M place. When Dave Attel had his comedy central show on, he went in. It's not all dark and mysterious as it used to be, but I think it's still here, somewhere.

[Trouble]

Very much Ironic....but i'm inclined to believe that since comics are a series of stories written by more than one person....regardless of who "created" emma frost..she's been RECREATED many many times and those writers (morrison, ellis, milligan, carey, whedon,pak, etc.) deserve just as much credit.

I get you. I've done the same thing with this character called Bluewing.

Interesting then that other writers were able to turn her into someone that you like.

[Omar Karindu]

First, Claremont and Byrne are not Americans, and Claremont was born in the UK.

Second, the Avengers TV series was indeed broadcast on American TV in the late 1960s by ABC back when there were only three channels on TV. The sale to US television coincided with Rigg's taking on the role.

Third, Brian Cronin, the author of the feature this thread is actually about, has covered the links between the TV show and the Hellfire arc (http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/03/30/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-44/) extensively already. If this shot of Diana Rigg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Touch_of_Brimstone) and the words of penciller/co-plotter John Byrne (http://www.byrnerobotics.com/FAQ/listing.asp?ID=2&T1=Questions+about+Comic+Book+Projects#171) don't convince you, there's nothing reason and logic can do.

Fourth, you started this volley with a condemnation of Claremont's personal morals and now seem to be merely complaining about his storytelling and his fans; these shifting bases do not lend you the air of someone writing in good faith.

And I say that as someone who is neither a fan of Chris Claremont's post 1980s writing nor as someone opposed to spirited debate so long as good faith is the basis of everyone's positions. Oh, and some cry of foul, I'm not a moderator or whatever, so I'm hardly trying to silence anyone.

[Brian Cronin]

Yeah, this is a rather odd argument. Sorry for the trouble, Omar.

-Brian

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

Just b/c he's from england and once upon a time there was an avengers episode...doesn't mean thats the ONLY explaination.....if you want me to gripe about how introducing sexually oriented themes and realities into mediums geared toward children is wrong....i'd be more than happy to gripe.

But someone did ask if rumors were true about him being into BDSM and introducing those elements into his stories and I said there really was/is a BDSM club in NYC.....but i didn't introduce the discussion just commented on it

[Brian Cronin]

1. Is there any truth to the accusations made here and there that non-EC comics companies basically gamed the Comics Code to run EC out of the business? This may be one of those indeterminable questions, since it was pretty clearly EC's comics and ideas that attracted ire in the first place, so EC was going to be hit hard by the CCA in any case. I'm just curious as to whether any documents or anything have ever surfaced to suggest that EC's coompetitors helped things along for their own benefit.

2. Was Bob Harras really fired as Marvel's EiC amid comments about someone's gay son?

3. Was the Squadron Supreme miniseries by Mark Gruenwald commissioned as a preemptive effort after news about Watchmen became known?

4. Did Grant Morrison really sneak the death of Magneto past Marvel editorical by deliberately sending his script in late, or did Marvel simply backpedal after the fact?

5. Is Mark Millar an ordained Presbyterian minister, as I've seen claimed here and there? And if not, where'd the rumor come from? (My guess: Millar.)

6. And, for a question that probably doesn't deserve an answer but certainly represents a long-floated Net rumor, anyone care to take a crack at the rumors that Chris Claremont's personal life isreflected by the bondage and mind-control themes prevalent in much of his comics work? Or was that just a nasty bit of Claremont-slander that took on a life of its own because of a kind of celebrity-baiting, wish-it-were-true, superficial plausibility?

A lot of good ones, Omar. I'll definitely take a look at them.

Well, except for #6. ;)

-Brian

[dancj]

Just b/c he's from england and once upon a time there was an avengers episode...doesn't mean thats the ONLY explaination.....if you want me to gripe about how introducing sexually oriented themes and realities into mediums geared toward children is wrong....i'd be more than happy to gripe.

But someone did ask if rumors were true about him being into BDSM and introducing those elements into his stories and I said there really was/is a BDSM club in NYC.....but i didn't introduce the discussion just commented on it
You also labeled Claremont "a v. sick individual" based on pretty scant evidence

[Reptisaurus!]

You also labeled Claremont "a v. sick individual" based on pretty scant evidence

It's not just that it's...

Y'know, there's a certain kind of personal fuckupetedness in my life I would never have, like, possibly imagined existed in the world if it wasn't for comic fans on the internet.


You sir or madam, are good people


And this is another kind. I hope this is some kind of terrible fucking joke gone wrong, or dude lost a bet or something. But it's probably not.

[suedenim]

I think I may have asked this before, but is it true that the short-lived villain "Thunder Sword" in Secret Wars II was a thinly-veiled representation of/attack on Steve Gerber?

[Omar Karindu]

I think I may have asked this before, but is it true that the short-lived villain "Thunder Sword" in Secret Wars II was a thinly-veiled representation of/attack on Steve Gerber?

EDIT: For that matter -- maybe even as a double-up -- has anyone admitted that "Sunspot" in Legends was a blatant swipe at Jim Shooter, especially with all his "create a new universe" stuff?

[Citizen V]

In quite a few issues of Claremont`s original X-Men,when i first read the issues with the Hellfire Club and Rachel Grey`s Hound outfit.I was a bit suprised with the tight leather,and lingerie.Mostly the White Queen`s outfit and the dungeon themes,with chains and shackles.I always did think there might have been a alternative suggestion with all that.

[The Mutt]

Did John Byrne turn The Vision white so that he and The Scarlet Witch would look like Caspar the Friendly Ghost and Wendy?

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

You also labeled Claremont "a v. sick individual" based on pretty scant evidence

scant or well backed up....bondage themes (real or imaginary) DO NOT belong in a book "meant" for prepubecent teenagers....its depraved to playout your own sexual fantasies in that way....if he wanted to "get it out" he should write for porn not comics....its disturbing and disgusting....and if this had been public knowledge (if it is true first of all)...i'm sure there would've been a group of mothers bangning on the doors of Marvel with pickets signs.

[Staredcraft]

Here's one for ya.

I heard that the reason why Marv Wolfman created the female Dr.Light in Crisis on Infinite Earth was just because the original male Dr.Light was not a suitible choice anymore after Marv dumbed him down during Teen Titans, so she was to replace him.

[dancj]

scant or well backed up....bondage themes (real or imaginary) DO NOT belong in a book "meant" for prepubecent teenagers....its depraved to playout your own sexual fantasies in that way....if he wanted to "get it out" he should write for porn not comics....its disturbing and disgusting....and if this had been public knowledge (if it is true first of all)...i'm sure there would've been a group of mothers bangning on the doors of Marvel with pickets signs.
No scant - because there's no way of knowing whether Claremont was aware of this bondage club, and he always claimed it was based on an episode of The Avengers.

[Gingold]

No scant - because there's no way of knowing whether Claremont was aware of this bondage club, and he always claimed it was based on an episode of The Avengers.

Not to mention that Byrne was doing a good bit of the plotting at that point.

[suedenim]

I thought this one might have been covered before, but I couldn't find any sign of it in the index.

When Marvel bought Malibu Comics, was their goal pretty much just to acquire Malibu's computer coloring technology, not their actual comics and characters? Getting further into conspiracy theory, did Marvel intend for its relaunch of the Ultraverse to fail? Did they purposely make the books as crappy as possible?

[founder81]

I thought this one might have been covered before, but I couldn't find any sign of it in the index.

When Marvel bought Malibu Comics, was their goal pretty much just to acquire Malibu's computer coloring technology, not their actual comics and characters? Getting further into conspiracy theory, did Marvel intend for its relaunch of the Ultraverse to fail? Did they purposely make the books as crappy as possible?

I've heard the 1st part before. But for the 2nd, I can't see a business deliberatley doing something to lose money.

[suedenim]

I've heard the 1st part before. But for the 2nd, I can't see a business deliberatley doing something to lose money.

Yeah, that's what I thought when I saw someone raise that possibility. There may be some truth to Marvel not exactly being all that torn up about the Marvel/Malibu Ultraverse line failing, and treating it with malign or indifferent neglect, though. One wrinkle with the Ultraverse characters is that while Malibu owned them outright, Malibu (and then Marvel, succeeding their interest) was and is obligated to share profits with the creators. Usually described as a pretty small portion, but enough to deter Marvel from doing much more with the characters, apparently. (For example, a proposal to have them show up in Exiles was reportedly nixed for this reason.)

One could plausibly imagine Marvel not greatly desiring a successful Ultraverse existing side-by-side with a successful Marvel Universe in terms of "creator relations." (I.e., writers for Marvel might want similar deals?)

[Omar Karindu]

One could plausibly imagine Marvel not greatly desiring a successful Ultraverse existing side-by-side with a successful Marvel Universe in terms of "creator relations." (I.e., writers for Marvel might want similar deals?)

In fact, a few of the Ultraverse writers -- Steves Gerber and Engelhart foremost among them -- were working for Malibu in part because of creative control and character ownership disputes with Marvel. Engelhart, who famously created a DCU version of Mantis inn his JLofA run, wasn't too many years removed from his "Jonathan Harkness" period during which Tom DeFalco ran him out of Marvel because DeFalco hated Mantis and Engelhart kept writing her into his books. And Gerber's Howard-related dispute was a key event in the creator's-rights movements of recent decades.

[Weapon Ick]

I heard from lawyer in California that Marvel cancelled a comic called Hell's Angel after two issues because of violent threats from the biker gang of the same name.

Also this might not entirely relate to comics, but I read that MAD Magazine's Alfred E. Newman was modeled after Prince Charles.

[Omar Karindu]

Alfred E. Neuman, believe it or not, was originally a public domain image from the 19th century that Mad picked up and wound up making their mascot. The whole story is wonderfully documented in the book Completely Mad.

The Prince Charles resemblance is coincidental, and Mad has often exploited it -- along with Neuman's resemblance to news anchor Ted Koppel -- for parodies over the years.

[ultramandingo]

......is the john bryne quiting marvel - she hulk leg shaving thing legit?

[stealthwise]

I heard once that Steve Ditko wanted the Green Goblin to be someone completely untied to Peter Parker, and that Stan Lee wanted him to be Norman Osborne, and that Ditko ended up leaving Amazing Spider-Man over it, is that true? Partially true?

[scratchie]

I heard once that Steve Ditko wanted the Green Goblin to be someone completely untied to Peter Parker, and that Stan Lee wanted him to be Norman Osborne, and that Ditko ended up leaving Amazing Spider-Man over it, is that true? Partially true?That's what this guy claims (although without citing any sources, unfortunately):

http://www.fortunecity.com/tatooine/niven/142/politics/pol13.html

As an Ayn Randian, Ditko was philosophically opposed to the notion that a successful businessman could be a criminal.

[Bob-el]

Would you be willing to chase down the truth about the original Starhawk character? Is it true that Starhawk's first appearance was in a one page ad for a story that was never published?

Many Marvel readers are familar with Starhawk as a member of the Guardians of the Galaxy. He is a hero merged from a male alien named Stakar and a female alien named Aleta. I'm sure many believe that when he appeared in Guardians of the Galaxy that was the first time he had ever been seen. But was it?

At the end of a Marvel Super Heroes issue (#20, I think) featuring Dr. Doom, the story goes that there is a one page ad for the next issue showing a gray costumed character called Starhawk. Unfortunately, with the next issue Marvel changed format and made Marvel Super Heroes into a reprint comic.

If my memory is correct, Marvel Super Heroes was also where the Guardians of the Galaxy made their first appearance in a one shot introducing the original four members.

So the question is was this the same Starhawk? Did Marvel stick him on a back shelf because his dual gender origin was too controversial for the time?
Did Starhawk, member of the Guardians of the Galaxy, really have his first appearance in the back of that Marvel Super Heroes issue?

[Citizen V]

I have a rumor of my own that i want answered.Its been bothering me for a long time..basically ever since i hear of it.

The Sentry first appeared in New Avengers,but a rumor went around that he was a creation of Stan Lee around the time of the Fantastic Four.But i later heard it was a lie,but there was some truth to it..there were some milelanious stories about a superpowered man at the time.

Is this true?Is the Sentry a character from Marvel`s origins?Or is the character a cheap rip off,like i know he is..but the "origin" story was leaked to make fans more open minded to the character,by putting Stan Lee`s name on it?

[yo go re]

I have a rumor of my own that i want answered.Its been bothering me for a long time..basically ever since i hear of it.

The Sentry first appeared in New Avengers,but a rumor went around that he was a creation of Stan Lee around the time of the Fantastic Four.But i later heard it was a lie,but there was some truth to it..there were some milelanious stories about a superpowered man at the time.

Is this true?Is the Sentry a character from Marvel`s origins?Or is the character a cheap rip off,like i know he is..but the "origin" story was leaked to make fans more open minded to the character,by putting Stan Lee`s name on it?
The Sentry did not first appear in New Avengers - he first appeared in a five-issue limited series under his own name. He wasn't created by Stan Lee, but the story was circulated that he was - not to make people more receptive, necessarily, but to make them a part of the story.

Better explanation here (http://www.oafe.net/yo/mlwm_sent.php)...

[Omar Karindu]

The Sentry did not first appear in New Avengers - he first appeared in a five-issue limited series under his own name. He wasn't created by Stan Lee, but the story was circulated that he was - not to make people more receptive, necessarily, but to make them a part of the story.

Better explanation here (http://www.oafe.net/yo/mlwm_sent.php)...

To add a bit more information, the Sentry's fictional publishing history had him debuting in the not-at-all real "Startling Stories," and claimed that he predated the Fantastic Four.

In actuality, barring some recognizable prototype versions of Iron Man and the X-Men, the only continuous superhero feature prior to FF #1 were the adventures of Doctor Droom, who was repackaged and reintroduced in the 1970s as Doctor Druid. Late 1950s to early 1960s Marvel did not publish a costumed, heroic character regularly prior to FF #1, and certainly had none at the absurd power level the Sentry is at.

In point of fact, the Sentry is fairly obviously a "what if the Weisinger-era omnipotent Superman were a Marvel-style character" idea as much as anything else. The "forgotten character" pastiche really doesn't work so well when you think about the comparatively lower-powered, more grounded characters that Stan, Jack, Steve, Don, et al. were actually creating around the same time period. These were the days when the Human Torch could only use his flame for brief periods of time, the Thing never lifted much more than an automobile, and so forth. Thor and the Hulk were a bit farther off, and the Silver Surfer farther still.

[yo go re]

See, I didn't know they'd ever claimed he'd actually appeared anywhere - I thought the story was that they'd found the paperwork on a previously unpublished character. That Stan had created him (with an artist whose name was taken from that of two inkers), he'd been stuck in a drawer and forgotten for decades. THEN in his own story, it was claimed he'd been in comics we'd all forgotten...

[Brian Cronin]

Yeah, that was the story - that he was found "undiscovered."

-Brian

[dancj]

Things like that Sentry hoax are part of the reason why I loved that Jemas+Quesada team up. Before Jemas went loopy those were good times!

[yo go re]

it would still make a good Urban Legend Revealed, if just to clear things up. Similarly:

I heard that Princess Di was supposed to appear in X-Force. After she died. Is that true?

[dancj]

No urban legend there. Joe Quesada announced it publicly and I think Pete Milligan did an artical in The TImes or The Guardian or somewhere. Unfortunately The Daily Mail (a nasty rag masquerading as the beacon of moral decency) found out about it and kicked up a fuss and an edict came down from on high that they couldn't use her.

It's all very silly really. Something like 0.5% of the population of Britain ever gave a toss about Di, but the media still tip-toe around her (now she's dead)

Dan

[Punch]

I guess they never read The Invisibles

[boldventure]

"scant or well backed up....bondage themes (real or imaginary) DO NOT belong in a book "meant" for prepubecent teenagers....its depraved to playout your own sexual fantasies in that way....if he wanted to "get it out" he should write for porn not comics....its disturbing and disgusting....and if this had been public knowledge (if it is true first of all)...i'm sure there would've been a group of mothers bangning on the doors of Marvel with pickets signs."

Gosh. Comic books are JUST for kids?

I think Claremont was just trying to tell a good story. And something different. Whether or not he succeeded is a different arguement.

[boldventure]

I was reading back trough the entries and saw the "Superman once fought the KKK" myth.

No ... a story-arc in the ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN radio series (circa 1945) dealt with a group calling itself the Knights of the White Carnation. It was comprised of mostly well-heeled businessmen who sought to form racial blocks in Metropolis.

[MacQuarrie]

Was Secret Wars rushed into production at least partially to beat the long-planned Crisis on Infinite Earths to the marketplace?

[Gingold]

What is the story with the unpublished Haney/Allred/Stephens Teen Titans book?

I remember reading about Jo Duffy and Colleen Doran doing a sequel to Marvel's Fallen Angels in the early 90s. I think it was completed but never published for some reason.

[Chris Nowlin]

I heard once that Steve Ditko wanted the Green Goblin to be someone completely untied to Peter Parker, and that Stan Lee wanted him to be Norman Osborne, and that Ditko ended up leaving Amazing Spider-Man over it, is that true? Partially true?

That's exactly the story I remember. But it's different than the one Scratchie posted. And different from the story Kirk G had read.

So now I'm curious. I'm trying to figure out how much, if any, of Ditko's personal philosophies made their way into Spider-Man, and learning the correct answer here is part of that discussion.

All my hopes lie with one Bob Dylan fan, alone on the internet.

[Brian Cronin]

Was Secret Wars rushed into production at least partially to beat the long-planned Crisis on Infinite Earths to the marketplace?

I'll certainly check into it!

-Brian

[Matthew E]

Not sure that this has been mentioned, and I don't know if it counts as an urban legend, but it might be your kind of thing anyway:

Captain Carrot's secret identity was originally Roger Rabbit.

Then DC changed it to R. Rodney Rabbit.

According to a note in the Zoo Crew lettercol, this was because of the Gary Wolf novel that the Roger Rabbit movie was later based on.

[Albert]

Here's one that came up on the Batman board. Apologies if you've already coevered it, but I read the Urban Legends pretty religously and hadn't seen it.



Someone told me that when TAS first started to air, WB demanded that a girlfriend character was created for Joker, as people were interpreting him as homosexual. Apparently Dini said it in an interview, and I personally wouldn't be suprised if it was true. Anyone else anything to support this? thnaks!

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Brian as an old silly Urban legend I used to hear Terry Kavanaugh was Chris Claremont using a pen name. No clue how true it was (odds are its not him) but I know I heard about it from a few people.

[Sabrinaset]

Someone told me before the first FF movie that when Lee/Kirby were making up the FF, that they had ideas for them to have different powers or names or something than what they ended up with. Any way to find out if that was true?

[Toku King]

I heard that Venom's symbiote was originally going to go to Dr. Octopus, and that Brock was going to die after two Venom stories for it.
Is this true?

[Gingold]

Brian as an old silly Urban legend I used to hear Terry Kavanaugh was Chris Claremont using a pen name. No clue how true it was (odds are its not him) but I know I heard about it from a few people.

I dunno Supe. Kavanagh was Ann Nocenti's assistant editor back when she edited the X-books (most of which were written by Claremont at the time), and he was the editor Excalibur when Claremont wrote it. It'd be pretty strange to create an alternate editorial persona. Stranger things have happened, I guess.

[stealthwise]

I heard that Venom's symbiote was originally going to go to Dr. Octopus, and that Brock was going to die after two Venom stories for it.
Is this true?

According to Eric Larsen it's true. He talked with Wizard years ago and talked about doing that idea, having the symbiote join with Dr. Doom, J Jonah Jameson, etc. but the popularity of the Brock Venom prevented that from happening.

Then they created Carnage. sigh

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I dunno Supe. Kavanagh was Ann Nocenti's assistant editor back when she edited the X-books (most of which were written by Claremont at the time), and he was the editor Excalibur when Claremont wrote it. It'd be pretty strange to create an alternate editorial persona. Stranger things have happened, I guess.

I remember someone telling me this crazy story years ago. That they created Kavanagh as a way in the mid 90's for Claremont to slide back in without using his name and all...letting him write and all for Marvel as Chris was tied up at DC . That once CC came back Kavanaugh slowly dissapeared.

Its pretty far fetched. I think I heard this thing back in 1998/1999 .

[Citizen V]

Someone told me before the first FF movie that when Lee/Kirby were making up the FF, that they had ideas for them to have different powers or names or something than what they ended up with. Any way to find out if that was true?

I remember hearing something like this.What i heard was the proposed names if the Fantastic Four were in DC at that time.

Mr.Fantastic ~ Strech-Man
The Insivible Girl ~ Light Girl
The Thing ~ Stone Boy
The Human Torch ~ Flame Lad

[Kid Kyoto]

Is Ms. Marvel/Carol Danvers a homage to Supergirl?

The evidence is very shakey but... they're both flying blonde powerhouses. Marvel's initial color scheme was red and blue.

Both were illustrated by Jim Mooney.

Kara is close to Carol, and Kara's secret ID after adoption was Linda Danvers.

Not much but I think it's enough to be worth looking at.

[suedenim]

I think the homage notion is fairly easy to shoot down, simply due to the fact that Carol Danvers started out as a mere "supporting character." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ms._Marvel#Early_years)

I haven't read any of her early appearances, but my impression is that the notion of making her a super-heroine powerhouse with a kinda-sorta-resemblance to Supergirl wasn't in mind when she was named.

[Omar Karindu]

think the homage notion is fairly easy to shoot down, simply due to the fact that Carol Danvers started out as a mere "supporting character."

No, though one might be forgiven for initially considering her transformation into Ms. Marvel, who initially had a whole dual personality shtick going on, as a thematic extension of the transformation of Mar-Vell into a character with plenty of deliberate parallels to the Fawcett version. She was Marvel's 1970s take on Mary Marvel in a very limited sense, and she swiftly departed from the vague source material almost immediately. It doesn't really qualify as Outliving the Influence (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=4964403&postcount=4) for that reason among others.

[Sean Walsh]

I remember someone telling me this crazy story years ago. That they created Kavanagh as a way in the mid 90's for Claremont to slide back in without using his name and all...letting him write and all for Marvel as Chris was tied up at DC . That once CC came back Kavanaugh slowly dissapeared.

Its pretty far fetched. I think I heard this thing back in 1998/1999 .

Whatever happened to Terry Kavanagh anyway? He disappeared around the time of Heroes Reborn (he wrote Iron Man before it went to Lee & Liefeld) and amidst the Clone Saga (which he originally suggested, IIRC).....

[MWGallaher]

Never mind my previous posting in this slot. I know why my earlier message was deleted.
Whatever happened to Terry Kavanagh anyway? He disappeared around the time of Heroes Reborn (he wrote Iron Man before it went to Lee & Liefeld) and amidst the Clone Saga (which he originally suggested, IIRC).....
Doesn't that answer the question right there, Sean? Why continue to employ the person who wrote two of your worst-received comics arcs ever?

[pariah-1972]

Was Secret Wars rushed into production at least partially to beat the long-planned Crisis on Infinite Earths to the marketplace?It appears that way .

Secret Wars was Marvel's answer to Crisis on Infinite Earths. Whereas CoIE was an epic tale that actually changed the status quo, Secret Wars was essentially a 12 issues of good guys and bad guys beating each other up in various and creative ways -- only fourteen sentences in the entire series ended in a period!! Fun for what it was. Interestingly, they actually managed to get it on the stands almost a year before CoIE, in response to rumors and advance publicity. Since then, Marvel has had many Crisis Crossovers, with one every year during the '90s.** The sequel, Secret Wars II, was less successful. The Beyonder, the omnipotent being behind Secret Wars, took on human form and wandered around doing stuff, with the heroes making mostly-futile attempts to interfere with him. Generally considered a failure, partially due to its inescapable nature, with nearly every comic Marvel published at the time tying in somehow. A good example of what not to do.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.CrisisCrossover

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Whatever happened to Terry Kavanagh anyway? He disappeared around the time of Heroes Reborn (he wrote Iron Man before it went to Lee & Liefeld) and amidst the Clone Saga (which he originally suggested, IIRC).....

I know.... my pals theory was that with Claremont free of his DC commitment to S7 , he could annouce his return to Marvel . This allowed him to drop the Kavanagh name as he suggested. Of course It did make me always wonder...really ?

[Kid Kyoto]

Not sure that this has been mentioned, and I don't know if it counts as an urban legend, but it might be your kind of thing anyway:

Captain Carrot's secret identity was originally Roger Rabbit.

Then DC changed it to R. Rodney Rabbit.

According to a note in the Zoo Crew lettercol, this was because of the Gary Wolf novel that the Roger Rabbit movie was later based on.

I remember that one too, the book was Who Censored Roger Robbit so the changed RRR's name to avoid confusion.

[Kid Kyoto]

Some of the urban legends are not really what I would think of as urban legends, but more of ideas that were discarded.

Perhaps CSBG could start a new feature 'Paths not taken'.

[pariah-1972]

I have a real easy one ! i am constantly hearing on messageboards that Cable wasn't originally supposed to be Scott Summers long lost child from the future. but just ended up that way? a semi retcon? is this true?? i need real proof not speculation since all the pieces seem to fit really well.

[Kid Kyoto]

I have a real easy one ! i am constantly hearing on messageboards that Cable wasn't originally supposed to be Scott Summers long lost child from the future. but just ended up that way? a semi retcon? is this true?? i need real proof not speculation since all the pieces seem to fit really well.

I read an interview with Liefeld saying basically he was tasked to create a man of action to lead the New Mutants, in contrast with Professor X as the man of peace. THe character was initially called Commander X. Liefeld designed him, the robo arm, the glowing eye, the guns, the shoulderpads etc.

Initially he had no backstory, just a cool design.

Interestingly Doomsday originally had no backstory either, nor did the Superman team have a plan for bringing him back. Reign of the Superman and Doomsday's story were all made up after the fact.

A list of characters created with no backstory in mind might be fun.

[Alan2099]

I have a real easy one ! i am constantly hearing on messageboards that Cable wasn't originally supposed to be Scott Summers long lost child from the future. but just ended up that way? a semi retcon? is this true?? i need real proof not speculation since all the pieces seem to fit really well.

I've heard at one time that Liefeld was going to reveal Cable to be the future version of cannonball.

[pariah-1972]

I've heard at one time that Liefeld was going to reveal Cable to be the future version of cannonball.That would have been god awfull.:(

[Jeremy A. Patterson]

I have an urban legend for you:

The entire core group of Sailor Senshi were originally going to wear mostly unique costume designs!


J.A.P.

[hrguerra]

Hi, I got another one that might be interesting and topical. I've heard recently that it was John Byrne who decided to make Jim Rhodes african american. He did pencil his first appearance but I haven't seen this referenced anywhere else by the the credited creators of the character.

[Squashua]

Urban Legend Suggestion

To go with all this Morrison hype...

Suggestion: Grant Morrison originally wanted to name his comic "Seaman", but was denied as DC executives felt it was too risque, subsequently forcing a rename to "Seaguy".

;)

[Vlaad II]

Suggestion: John Buscema did (the layouts for?) an entire issue in a day.

[Jeremy A. Patterson]

Remco licensed The Mighty Crusaders action figure line as revenge against Kenner for stealing the DC heroes!

J.A.P.

[Squashua]

SUGGESTION

Is there a connection between Metron of the New Gods and Cosmic Enforcer Zodak from 'Masters of the Universe'?

I understand you covered the MotU Movie / New Gods Movie connection here (http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/11/02/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-75/), but my question is different.

The classic Zodak toy, as he appeared in the toy-included comic books and the short-lived DC Comic series, was a cosmic enforcer who flew around in a chair and did cosmic stuff. The toy did not come with the chair, but in the manner in which it was drawn, the chair was identical to the throne that came with the Castle Greyskull toy.

Metron is (or was?) a New God who flew around in a chair and does cosmic stuff.

[Tetsuo_man]

Is it true bob harrass only got fired from marvel because he didn't hype the first x-men movie enough?

[Gaastra]

Lets see.

1. Does marvel still own the rights to neo-knights and circut breaker from transformers?

2. Can marvel use the malibu comics team the Protectors?

3. They could talk about the mickey mouse air pirates legend.

[Squashua]

What was the impetus behind the forced separation of formerly DC characters used within the Vertigo imprint being unable to "cross back" to the DCU?

[dancj]

What was the impetus behind the forced separation of formerly DC characters used within the Vertigo imprint being unable to "cross back" to the DCU?
I'm sure they can, but as a rule I think they avoid it because it's easier that way with both companies having different editorial structures.

Also these days I think the atmosphere of books like Hellblazer would be ruined by superheroes. Swamp Thing on the other hand works quite well with them.

[Gingold]

What was the impetus behind the forced separation of formerly DC characters used within the Vertigo imprint being unable to "cross back" to the DCU?

Vertigo books are "mature readers"; DCU books are "all ages." They don't want to be seen as directing younger readers to the adult content in some of the books. "If you liked seeing John Constantine, and you're over 17, check him out in his own title..." doesn't really fly.

Though Animal Man and Doom Patrol seem to have crossed back into the all ages realm again.

[stealthwise]

Vertigo books are "mature readers"; DCU books are "all ages." They don't want to be seen as directing younger readers to the adult content in some of the books. "If you liked seeing John Constantine, and you're over 17, check him out in his own title..." doesn't really fly.

Though Animal Man and Doom Patrol seem to have crossed back into the all ages realm again.

DCU books haven't been "all ages" for years. Read crap like "Infinite Crisis" or "Outsiders" and there's tons of junk in there that no decent parent would let their children read. Even higher quality fare like "Green Lantern" or the Batman titles have quite a bit of violence in them at times.

[Gingold]

DCU books haven't been "all ages" for years. Read crap like "Infinite Crisis" or "Outsiders" and there's tons of junk in there that no decent parent would let their children read. Even higher quality fare like "Green Lantern" or the Batman titles have quite a bit of violence in them at times.

Sure. But the DCU books don't have the "mature readers" label and the Vertigo books do. And that's why they generally don't want characters crossing between the two lines.

[Paradox]

stealthwise thinks it's a realistic distinction?:

DCU books haven't been "all ages" for years. Read crap like "Infinite Crisis" or "Outsiders" and there's tons of junk in there that no decent parent would let their children read. Even higher quality fare like "Green Lantern" or the Batman titles have quite a bit of violence in them at times.

Semantics. Would you have preferred the words "mature" and "immature"? :biggrin:

[stealthwise]

Sure. But the DCU books don't have the "mature readers" label and the Vertigo books do. And that's why they generally don't want characters crossing between the two lines.

So... the biggest difference then is that Vertigo books actually WARN people that they're about to read explicit content, while I have to read through each issue of Teen Titans or whatever to make sure that it's appropriate for my kids?

[Michael P]

So... the biggest difference then is that Vertigo books actually WARN people that they're about to read explicit content, while I have to read through each issue of Teen Titans or whatever to make sure that it's appropriate for my kids?

Hey, if your kids don't like anonymous rest-stop bathroom trucker sex, they're just repressed.

[Kirayoshi]

There's something that I always wondered. In the movie "The Incredibles", Helen Parr's superhero name was Elasti-Girl. But in some of the ad art for the movie, she's referred to as Mrs. Incredible. Did Pixar make the name change because DC has a character named Elasti-Girl over in The Doom Patrol?

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Hey, if your kids don't like anonymous rest-stop bathroom trucker sex, they're just repressed.

Did that actually happen in an issue?

Was it Winnick?

(anyone else remember when you'd read a sentence like Michaels and assume it was Austen who wrote it? Those were the days - he didn't even try and justify it).

[newscott]

Hey, if your kids don't like anonymous rest-stop bathroom trucker sex, they're just repressed.

I hope you meant reading about anonymous rest-stop bathroom trucker sex.

[Brian Cronin]

Thanks for the suggestions, folks!

I take them all under advisement (I just temporarily delete them until I address them in the column)!

Thanks,
Brian

[Gothos]

Hah! I was thinking about this one last night at work. Here is my suggestion. Many people appear to believe that Frank Miller is responsible for turning Batman into an unlikeable jerk who cannot get along with other people. This is not true. Batman had started becoming an unlikeable jerk with questionable people skills long before Miller supposedly rebranded him as such in Dark Knight Returns.

After all, by the time Wolfman and Perez came out with the new Titans in 1980, Batman and Robin had been experiencing great difficulties in getting along since the 1970's. Their relationship was perenially stormy and awkard for one reaon or another. Then Batman had a falling out with Superman in the pages of World's Finest in an arc that lasted for several issues before the series climaxed (and was cancelled) with #300. And then there was Batman's falling out with the JLA at large that led him to form Batman and the Outsiders (he would be reconciled with the JLA in #200 of that title).

While these were comparatively mild examples when contrasted to Bruce's current purported behaviour, they all predate DKR and show clearly that Batman was already being viewed as someone who was becoming progressively isolated from his friends. Frank Miller may have taken the concept and run with it, but it wasn't his idea to begin with. I think that qualifies as a ''Comic Book Urban Legend''.

I'll second that. I'm fairly sure that Wolfman briefly wrote Batman during his stint on Titans and I remember thinking that Wolfman's Batman was fairly nasty, while Robin/Nightwing was a cool guy. I think Wolfman overdid the whole "repressive parental figure" schtick, though admittedly that helped give TITANS a new identity.