Joe Friday: Week 52 - Astonishing X-Men #15 Preview Pages!!

[Beast]

Some fun preview pages and teases of what's to come in Issue #15 and beyond. :)

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NRAMA: Over to Joss - Astonishing X-Men?

WHEDON: I don’t know how much I can say, other than things are just gunning up. I decided, after I got my sea legs, as I said, that I am shaking things up a little. So, by the time I walk away, the roster will be a little bit different, some people are going to go, some may join, and none of it will be pretty.

The other tidbit I can give – Cassaday? Not that good. Not very talented at all. I’m pretty much having to write more dialogue every issue, just to cover up more of the art. I’m at the point where I’m thinking that I need to start drawing the book as well. He’s the Abbot of this particular Abbot and Costello.

QUESADA: He’s the Garfunkel
http://www.newsarama.com/JoeFridays/JoeFridays52.html

[rilokyle]

Lookin' pretty good! I'm excited now for this issue because it looks a like a good ole action story. This reminds me of that olden times when the Hellfire Club broke into the mansion and held the X-Men hostage- I'm getting all nostalgic, I love it!

Oh, and the interview with Joss is funny. I love good sarcasm. :)

[Effect]

Hmm I wonder who's in the jail cell? And a direct assualt on the mansion by the Hellfire Club? Yikes. Look decent, just wish the waiting times weren't killing or killed my interest in the title.

[Beast]

Hmm I wonder who's in the jail cell?
That's Ord.

[Huzzah!]

they really should have given him an exercise wheel and water bottle

[Syzygy]

Okay...it's nitpicking time.

First, I don't think Shaw's nose would bleed if Colossus punched him. He's been hit by Colossus before, and just loved it. When Shaw can't absorb any more physical impact, he falls comatose. Where does bleeding fit in?

Second, wouldn't Colossus know better than to hit Shaw? After all, he's gotten clobbered by Shaw before. Wouldn't Colossus have learned some passive martial art forms and wrerstling holds by now, specifically for the purpose of battling foes who absorb impact? If nothing else, it would enable Colossus to draw the battle out longer until help arrived. Are the X-Men too stupid to plan for this contingency?

Peace,
Syzygy

[Beast]

Okay...it's nitpicking time.

First, I don't think Shaw's nose would bleed if Colossus punched him. He's been hit by Colossus before, and just loved it. When Shaw can't absorb any more physical impact, he falls comatose. Where does bleeding fit in?

Second, wouldn't Colossus know better than to hit Shaw? After all, he's gotten clobbered by Shaw before. Wouldn't Colossus have learned some passive martial art forms and wrerstling holds by now, specifically for the purpose of battling foes who absorb impact? If nothing else, it would enable Colossus to draw the battle out longer until help arrived. Are the X-Men too stupid to plan for this contingency?

Peace,
Syzygy
Perhaps he wasn't fully charged up yet, and Colossus' punch just powered past what he had vulnerability for. Or it's just another clue that none of it's real, just manifestations of Emma's nightmares or nutsyness. :)

[Huzzah!]

Wouldnt he have seen that coming with his telepathy?

[Beast]

Wouldnt he have seen that coming with his telepathy?
Shhh. That was a mistake. Even Morrison said so. Now shush. :D

[Faded]

Interesting. Shake ups, huh?

Seems fun.

[xakko]

regarding Shaw being hurt by the punch- that appears to be either a mistake, that (as Beast mentioned) he wasn't totally charged up/Peter is much stronger (and there is a comment from Shaw with a bloody nose saying "Thanks for the powerup" but better) or a hint that it's not really Shaw. I took the panel with Shaw flying away to be the sort of action to circumvent Shaw's kinetic absorption.

[Volk1]

WHEDON: It’s clear that I’ve got to start killing people – and fast – I don’t think that I’m with the program enough. I think I’ll ask John to draw them all more dead. [laughs]

LOL - I wonder if that's a jab at Kyle and Yost. :p

Even if not, it's funny that he thinks he needs to conform....can a writer not be original anymore?!!!!:evilangry

[xmanson]

The X-Men need better security guards.

And i can't believe they didn't use Ord and his precogs in X3 along with the cure thing, such a great plot.

[Haunt]

Okay...it's nitpicking time.

First, I don't think Shaw's nose would bleed if Colossus punched him. He's been hit by Colossus before, and just loved it. When Shaw can't absorb any more physical impact, he falls comatose. Where does bleeding fit in?

Second, wouldn't Colossus know better than to hit Shaw? After all, he's gotten clobbered by Shaw before. Wouldn't Colossus have learned some passive martial art forms and wrerstling holds by now, specifically for the purpose of battling foes who absorb impact? If nothing else, it would enable Colossus to draw the battle out longer until help arrived. Are the X-Men too stupid to plan for this contingency?

Peace,
Syzygy

Colossus was using a martial art. he attacked Shaw on one the body's pressure points. much smarter than when he just used to punch Shaw across the chest; the broadest and toughest area of the body. :)

[Faded]

WHEDON: It’s clear that I’ve got to start killing people – and fast – I don’t think that I’m with the program enough. I think I’ll ask John to draw them all more dead. [laughs]

LOL - I wonder if that's a jab at Kyle and Yost. :p

Even if not, it's funny that he thinks he needs to conform....can a writer not be original anymore?!!!!:evilangry

Hahaha maybe. I agree, I kinda like his storytelling style now. I'm mostly looking forward to potential cast changes (though I'm worried about where he's heading with Emma).

[steve2275]

Colossus was using a martial art. he attacked Shaw on one the body's pressure points. much smarter than when he just used to punch Shaw across the chest; the broadest and toughest area of the body. :)
well he did make him bleed

[MasterOdin]

Wow. I am very surprised to hear of the upcoming lineup changes, but I am glad to see that Whedon is now more comfortable with shaking things up a bit.

[Beast]

Wow. I am very surprised to hear of the upcoming lineup changes, but I am glad to see that Whedon is now more comfortable with shaking things up a bit.
One is probably the addition of Angel, since there were hints of it when the solicits for the recent Angel bust referred to it as Astonishing X-Men Angel. I wonder if we'll be seeing Scott leaving now also, given what's happened to him just recently. Or Emma, for similar reasons. I'd almost support Beast leaving the X-Men again, if he was headed to the second Avengers book coming up. :)

[Mariah]

One is probably the addition of Angel, since there were hints of it when the solicits for the recent Angel bust referred to it as Astonishing X-Men Angel. I wonder if we'll be seeing Scott leaving now also, given what's happened to him just recently. Or Emma, for similar reasons. I'd almost support Beast leaving the X-Men again, if he was headed to the second Avengers book coming up. :)
Hopefully he can do something with Angel, and actually understands him. I haven't seen the bust yet, what does it look like? Hmmm....people I'd like to see leave...well, Emma(duh), and Cyke would be an interesting dynamic if they left the books, but who would run the schools? I also hope Angel still has his wings, I didn't read the craptacular Gen. M, but last I knew, he didn't have his wings anymore, but in the 198 book he still does...what's going on there.

[Beast]

Hopefully he can do something with Angel, and actually understands him. I haven't seen the bust yet, what does it look like? Hmmm....people I'd like to see leave...well, Emma(duh), and Cyke would be an interesting dynamic if they left the books, but who would run the schools? I also hope Angel still has his wings, I didn't read the craptacular Gen. M, but last I knew, he didn't have his wings anymore, but in the 198 book he still does...what's going on there.
http://www.diamondcomics.com/toychest/toys/jan_06/Angel.jpg

There's a small picture of the bust. Anyway... Well, Whedon seems to like Claremont's stuff. So hopefully he read the Excalibur issues recently that did a good recap of his powers, to show he's not as sucky as everyone always seems to think. As for Warren's wings, yes he does. He was using an Image Inducer to appear depowered, to draw out the Serial Killer who was targeting depowered mutants. :)

[Huzzah!]

The X-Men need better security guards.

And i can't believe they didn't use Ord and his precogs in X3 along with the cure thing, such a great plot.

Couldnt get the hamster make up right

http://www.diamondcomics.com/toychest/toys/jan_06/Angel.jpg

There's a small picture of the bust. Anyway... Well, Whedon seems to like Claremont's stuff. So hopefully he read the Excalibur issues recently that did a good recap of his powers, to show he's not as sucky as everyone always seems to think. As for Warren's wings, yes he does. He was using an Image Inducer to appear depowered, to draw out the Serial Killer who was targeting depowered mutants. :)

Warren is sucky. Not because he should be written that way, but because writers are really ignoring the fact that he is rub dook on the walls crazy

If whedon uses him he should go with that. Plus he could bring along husk since he digs those may decembers

[MasterOdin]

One is probably the addition of Angel, since there were hints of it when the solicits for the recent Angel bust referred to it as Astonishing X-Men Angel. I wonder if we'll be seeing Scott leaving now also, given what's happened to him just recently. Or Emma, for similar reasons. I'd almost support Beast leaving the X-Men again, if he was headed to the second Avengers book coming up. :)

Interesting. I didn't see that statue. I could see Beast leaving (even though I know he is your favorite) since he has seemed to play a background role on this team.

[Volk1]

Hahaha maybe. I agree, I kinda like his storytelling style now. I'm mostly looking forward to potential cast changes (though I'm worried about where he's heading with Emma).

I was beginning to wonder that too. Who would join or leave the cast?
Talk about Angel makes sense...he's seriously the only mutant that can fit well with what the roster offers.....I wouldn't mind if they added Husk too, since it's younger blood and maybe her and Kitty could become good friends...maybe...

I'd also say Bishop but I think they have other plans for him. I'd just like to see Bishop and Piotr start a friendship or something...or maybe Bishop/Beast....Bishop seems like a character that should have a major role on a team; a leader. Maybe that's why he's going to be off an X-roster....they won't let him shine.:(

If none of this prevail, add a New Mutant. I know personally Sunspot is just
begging for a role on a main X-cast. :p

And lord knows the Astonishing crew could use that kind of spice and pizazz to their team... :rolleyes:

[rwsmith]

Whedon seems to like the originals and 2nd generation X-men, so I'm betting Beast is right about Angel joining (especially after X3). My guess on the person leaving is Emma. I'm betting she and Scott end up parting ways after this arc. Hopefully they won't bring Jean back, though. Let her rest in peace IMO. If they need another female on this team, maybe they can get Storm. Though with her being married to the Black Panther now I'm not sure how that would work.

[CMBMOOL]

One is probably the addition of Angel, since there were hints of it when the solicits for the recent Angel bust referred to it as Astonishing X-Men Angel. I wonder if we'll be seeing Scott leaving now also, given what's happened to him just recently. Or Emma, for similar reasons. I'd almost support Beast leaving the X-Men again, if he was headed to the second Avengers book coming up. :)

I betting it Wolverine that's leaving because it might decrease his overexposion or Kitty and Peter to rexamine their relationship or to give each other time to be comfortable with each other again.

Also I'm sorry to state this but Beast in the Avengers was more of a joker and less of a scientist, so I liked that he's better off in the X-men than the Avengers. :(

No offense. :(

[Romus]

Wedon should do a Colossus/Kitty mini series.... or even on going!

[Huzzah!]

NaY! NAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

whedon kitty and peter are crazy boring. Whedon Kitty was at least somewhat entertaining

But the pair


my god

He should move them out of his team and bring in storm and sunfire

Spice it up a bit.

Hey maybe even Jubilee in some manner

Jubilee would be perfect for him

[Romus]

NaY! NAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

whedon kitty and peter are crazy boring. Whedon Kitty was at least somewhat entertaining

But the pair


my god

He should move them out of his team and bring in storm and sunfire

Spice it up a bit.

Hey maybe even Jubilee in some manner

Jubilee would be perfect for him

Speak for yourself :P sorry to tell you that Kitty Colossus is such a hit!

[CMBMOOL]

NaY! NAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

whedon kitty and peter are crazy boring. Whedon Kitty was at least somewhat entertaining

But the pair


my god

He should move them out of his team and bring in storm and sunfire

Spice it up a bit.


Are you really dissing on the Kitty and Peter relationship ? :mad:

[Amokitty]

Wedon should do a Colossus/Kitty mini series.... or even on going!

I've thought the same thing, and I'd scream the roof off my house if that happened!! Whedon writing the series would make it perfect. :D


The previews make for a real nail biter. It looks as though Colossus is in the medlab looking after a catatonic Scott when Shaw makes his entrance, and I'm not surprised. Somehow I just knew that there would be a Colossus - Shaw showdown!

Also looks like there's going to be a Negasonic vs. Kitty fight, and that doesn't surprise me either.

Who do you think will be gunning for Wolverine?

[steve2275]

I've thought the same thing, and I'd scream the roof off my house if that happened!! Whedon writing the series would make it perfect. :D


The previews make for a real nail biter. It looks as though Colossus is in the medlab looking after a catatonic Scott when Shaw makes his entrance, and I'm not surprised. Somehow I just knew that there would be a Colossus - Shaw showdown!

Also looks like there's going to be a Negasonic vs. Kitty fight, and that doesn't surprise me either.
intresting observation

[Huzzah!]

Yes i am. Its a relationship that had already come to a logical conclusion in my mind. Furthermore to make it work both the characters are being essentially regressed to earlier states.

Some people like that, and that is fine.

But for me, since im not seeing this as nostalgic or fan boy wish fufillment and just looking at the 2 interacting, im not seeing anything of substance in this relationship. Just elation they are both alive. No heart to it right now.

Also, its dulling a, few jokes aside, already dull whedon kitty. Colossus is back, but i dont see why he is a necessity for this cast. If whedon wants to make me believe in this relationship, which will be a huge hill to climb, he needs to actually do some things to set it back up.

Plus we decided that Colossus is just Whedon's phallus for having sex with Kitty :D

[HIK248]

I've thought the same thing, and I'd scream the roof off my house if that happened!! Whedon writing the series would make it perfect. :D


The previews make for a real nail biter. It looks as though Colossus is in the medlab looking after a catatonic Scott when Shaw makes his entrance, and I'm not surprised. Somehow I just knew that there would be a Colossus - Shaw showdown!

Also looks like there's going to be a Negasonic vs. Kitty fight, and that doesn't surprise me either.

Who do you think will be gunning for Wolverine?

Well it seems to me that Emma started the attack like Perfection asked her to and send Scott into a coma,then Cassandra Nova is going after Beast,Shaw will fight Colossus,Negasonicc Teenage Crackhead will fight Kitty which leaves Perfection for Wolverine

[Romus]

So once again I'm guessing Colossus will lose a fight :( Because later it's Kitty who stands alone :(

[Syzygy]

Couldnt get the hamster make up right

Warren is sucky. Not because he should be written that way, but because writers are really ignoring the fact that he is rub dook on the walls crazy

If whedon uses him he should go with that. Plus he could bring along husk since he digs those may decembers

Am I the only one who didn't understand any of this?

Peace,
Syzygy

[Huzzah!]

Am I the only one who didn't understand any of this?

Peace,
Syzygy

Ill translate for clarity

Couldnt get the hamster make up right

Ord looks like a lame Hamster man. Perhaps he would have been a good ani-man



Warren is sucky. Not because he should be written that way, but because writers are really ignoring the fact that he is rub dook on the walls crazy

Like Cyclops who writers are still writing as a good leader boy scout despite the fact he is clearly a cheating/quiter/crappy leader, Angel is still written in the iconic superhero light. However Angel is quite nutty and to be writting him as a bastion for good rather than someone with serious psychological problems is a waste thematically and makes the character absurd and easily unlikeable. The stories have little effect on the writes perception on a character thus many stories and such are always written with an iconic archtype of the character in mind. There is little analysis of the character from the actions he has taken to alter how the chacter is, so to speak.


If whedon uses him he should go with that. Plus he could bring along husk since he digs those may decembers

May December relationships refer to relationships where one participant is much older than the other, such as Colossus and Kitty. Or Husk and Angel. etc

[Blackcat]

Who are those two figures with Agent Brand? I've seen them in last issue too, but do not get who they are. Secondly, is Brand from homeworld too, I thought she was a SHIELD Agent.

[Beast]

Who are those two figures with Agent Brand? I've seen them in last issue too, but do not get who they are. Secondly, is Brand from homeworld too, I thought she was a SHIELD Agent.
Just a couple of her underlings/agents. I'd have to drag out my issues to recall their names. And yes, Agent Brand is a S*W*O*R*D Agent.

[Zombienorthstar]

Who are those two figures with Agent Brand? I've seen them in last issue too, but do not get who they are. Secondly, is Brand from homeworld too, I thought she was a SHIELD Agent.


One looks like Ultimate Nick Fury which confuses me...

[xakko]

Yes i am. Its a relationship that had already come to a logical conclusion in my mind. Furthermore to make it work both the characters are being essentially regressed to earlier states.

Some people like that, and that is fine.

But for me, since im not seeing this as nostalgic or fan boy wish fufillment and just looking at the 2 interacting, im not seeing anything of substance in this relationship. Just elation they are both alive. No heart to it right now.

Also, its dulling a, few jokes aside, already dull whedon kitty. Colossus is back, but i dont see why he is a necessity for this cast. If whedon wants to make me believe in this relationship, which will be a huge hill to climb, he needs to actually do some things to set it back up.

Plus we decided that Colossus is just Whedon's phallus for having sex with Kitty :D
No, we didn't. You did. And quite frankly, from your comments, it doesn't look like your analysis can get past your bias. The balance of the evidence written prior to Whedon makes the Kitty-Piotr relationship make sense- you are choosing not to accept it.

There are perfect explanations for why Kitty would act like she did. When she was in Chicago, away from Xavier's, she expanded her horizons. She returned because they needed her- first to rescue Rachel, then because apparently Emma had Scott ask her to join. She had said to the professor that if he needed her, she'd be there. I wouldn't mind a little more resentment on her part at being called back to the life, but given what happened on their first mission, and being confronted with the ressurrection of the one man whom she loved the most, it isn't hard to see how those feelings got pushed aside. It shouldn't be a terrible leap to see how, when confronted by a very familiar environment but a highly stressful situation, she would find herself retreating back into an old familiar mindset, psychologically. This happens all the time in real life. And her sarcastic comments are easily seen as a way to rebel against being pushed back.

Let's face it, Kitty's lovelife post X-men has been pretty much shown to be nonexistent, even in Mekanix, where she thought Tom was attractive, and nearly kissed Shan in a moment of high tension, but that's been shut down by editorial. She's spent more time post Uncanny #390 thinking about Piotr than anyone else- and quite a bit of it, too.

[Zombienorthstar]

No, we didn't. You did. And quite frankly, from your comments, it doesn't look like your analysis can get past your bias. The balance of the evidence written prior to Whedon makes the Kitty-Piotr relationship make sense- you are choosing not to accept it.

There are perfect explanations for why Kitty would act like she did. When she was in Chicago, away from Xavier's, she expanded her horizons. She returned because they needed her- first to rescue Rachel, then because apparently Emma had Scott ask her to join. She had said to the professor that if he needed her, she'd be there. I wouldn't mind a little more resentment on her part at being called back to the life, but given what happened on their first mission, and being confronted with the ressurrection of the one man whom she loved the most, it isn't hard to see how those feelings got pushed aside. It shouldn't be a terrible leap to see how, when confronted by a very familiar environment but a highly stressful situation, she would find herself retreating back into an old familiar mindset, psychologically. This happens all the time in real life. And her sarcastic comments are easily seen as a way to rebel against being pushed back.

Let's face it, Kitty's lovelife post X-men has been pretty much shown to be nonexistent, even in Mekanix, where she thought Tom was attractive, and nearly kissed Shan in a moment of high tension, but that's been shut down by editorial. She's spent more time post Uncanny #390 thinking about Piotr than anyone else- and quite a bit of it, too.

Youve got to remember as well that this is happening IN the mansion. A place where her nostalgia surrounding Peter is at its highest...Whne she scattered Peters ashes in russia she froced herself to realise that perhaps she had lsot him forever...many couples are brought together btu a near death experience let alone an ACTUAL death experience...i think these are the two elements that ahve pushed Kitty and Peter together and Whedon has highlighted both of them in his arc both with Kittys flashabcks upon ehr return to the mansion to Kitty's 'Piotr Rasputin is dead I scattered his ashes myself' speech.

[Huzzah!]

No, we didn't. You did.

Wait...what? That Yes i am from the post you were replying to was a reply to a "dogging kitty and piotr relationship" thing. If confusions apologies

And quite frankly, from your comments, it doesn't look like your analysis can get past your bias. The balance of the evidence written prior to Whedon makes the Kitty-Piotr relationship make sense- you are choosing not to accept it.

I have no bias one way or the other. You seem to clearly have one in favor of.

The evidence you seem to put in high esteem is characters musing about each other. I find little substance to that in contrast to the actions taken by the characters that reveal far more of their intent and mental state.

When Colossus "cheated" that if not under the influence means something. Lets say he was. That also tells us something with the way he handled it. He used it as an excuse to break up with Kitty. He clearly wanted to break up and was trumping up indescretions if you will to facilitate that.

The example i used in the other thread still has weight

"If you were able to win, lets say, 1000 dollars if you kissed some chick. And you do so under the coercion of the money if you will. Would you go back to your girlfriend and say..."sorry...i kissed this chick. We have to break up." if you were legitametly into the relationship?"

Colossus didnt offer her a choice. He didnt say, here is what i did...what do you want to do? It was simply him saying flatly its over.

This isnt a relationship in Astonishing. THis is 2 people who liked each other and who havent been around in a while simply hooking up because of the elation of seeing each other again.

This is like when someone comes back from college and hooks up with their old high school sweet heart for a while.

When someone who breaks up with their other constantly thinks about that person, that doesnt mean they made a mistake. It means usually that they arent with someone else. Colossus has had little relationship sucess and that explains his preoccupation with Kitty, because he wants to take that step back because he is afraid to take that step foreward. He is essentially afraid of being alone, and so he goes back to being with someone even if he feels that person isnt right for him.



There are perfect explanations for why Kitty would act like she did. When she was in Chicago, away from Xavier's, she expanded her horizons. She returned because they needed her- first to rescue Rachel, then because apparently Emma had Scott ask her to join. She had said to the professor that if he needed her, she'd be there. I wouldn't mind a little more resentment on her part at being called back to the life, but given what happened on their first mission, and being confronted with the ressurrection of the one man whom she loved the most, it isn't hard to see how those feelings got pushed aside. It shouldn't be a terrible leap to see how, when confronted by a very familiar environment but a highly stressful situation, she would find herself retreating back into an old familiar mindset, psychologically. This happens all the time in real life. And her sarcastic comments are easily seen as a way to rebel against being pushed back.

Im not saying she wouldnt perhaps regress back to that old state, for a while. But what im saying is that old state doesnt fit anymore, and the more she tries to be that or conform to that she will find it so constricting. When she is out of her conform to the past mindset, and Colossus gets some other action going both will drift away from this relationship, if it could so be called. This isnt some deep relationship tried and tested. This relationship is comperale to Cyclops and jean, a cyclical relaionship based more on fear and proximity than any real connection. The high school relationship, if you will.

Since his resurrection this relationship has been pretty mindless, as such there is quite apparently no future for it. Colossus ended this relationship before for a reason, and that reason will start to crown its head again soon enough.

..ewww...

Kitty is a different person now, this acting like a kid again and even talking about how she isnt a fighter and all that jazz is her trying to acclement to a role that she no longer fits in. She will soon realize this and that too will be a break in the levee for this pairing.

This relationship with Colossus is exactly what you were saying with the being regressed because of the enviroment. But in cases like this you must simply examine it. If there is a realtionship that simply regressed you and does away with all your personal growth there is unquestionably no way to grow in that relationship or in life, and it becomes the albatross around your neck. This relationship simply isnt good for kitty or colossus for that reason. It makes them stagnant and dull.

Let's face it, Kitty's lovelife post X-men has been pretty much shown to be nonexistent, even in Mekanix, where she thought Tom was attractive, and nearly kissed Shan in a moment of high tension, but that's been shut down by editorial. She's spent more time post Uncanny #390 thinking about Piotr than anyone else- and quite a bit of it, too.

The reason she is thinking about him is for that very reason, nothing is going on. But that isnt a good reason to get back into a relationship. Thats being too scared to try to steal 2nd base and running back to 1st.

DO i think kitty likes colossus a lot more than he her? Absolutely. SHe didnt break up with him so there are conflicting feelings there. But those were feelings of a 14 year old girl contrasted with the reality of a 20 year old woman. But right now Colossus isnt being judged for who he is a Kitty only sees the rose colored picture of him she has in her mind. With more exposure (vulgar) she will begin to see the reality of the person and that will affect her view.

Soon the honey moon will be over and this relationship will fall back into what it was, a bad thing for both characters.

[xakko]

wow... you have the exact opposite opinion of a "pryde-wisdom" fan, who feel it is Kitty who got over Peter, not the other way around. in many ways, you have less jusitifcation for your opinion.

and here's where your analysis is wrong. Uncanny #197.

Done it! I saved Kitty! As I could not save Zsaji. I never even had a chance to try. I hardly knew her- we were together so short a time, and the only words of our two languages we understood were our own names- yet she touched my soul. I suppose part of what I feel... is guilt- for surviving. I want to prove myself worthy of her sacrifice. The only way that seems possible is by remaining faithful to her memory. Is that right- or am I dwelling in the past? What debts are forever, Kitty? Am I truly honoring Zsaji in this way or-?!! Forgive me, I should not be asking such things of-

Peter states for the record that he essentially broke up with Kitty to be faithful to the memory of Zsaji. Not that he ever stopped caring for Kitty, which as of Uncanny #210 we know that he didn't. And all the dialogue subsequent to #183 about how badly he feels for hurting her, how it threw him off his game, as it were. ("Does she hate me, for hurting her so? It seems I certainly hate myself") The way he debates what he would've wanted when he found out the they were married in Rachel's timeline.

It was never that he fell out of love with her. If anything, he may have subconsciously thought that Doug was a better match for her, since they had so much in common, and that brought out not only jealousy, but perhaps- perhaps a desire to remove himself from the equation because he thought Doug would be better suited to make her happy.

If you'll re-read Secret Wars, he goes on the offensive against the bad guys because he was seperated from Kitty, resulting in his injury that required Zsaji's treatment.

And if you don't think CC was using Wolverine's comments in #183 as the truth of the matter, well, I think you are sadly mistaken.

[Amokitty]

This isnt a relationship in Astonishing. THis is 2 people who liked each other and who havent been around in a while simply hooking up because of the elation of seeing each other again.

The way you phrase that, makes it sound like your opinion is gospel, without the facts to back them up. It IS a relationship. A serious, adult relationship that is only beginning. And while you may hate that, Whedon obviously doesn't. This IS Canon.

Colossus has had little relationship sucess and that explains his preoccupation with Kitty, because he wants to take that step back because he is afraid to take that step foreward. He is essentially afraid of being alone, and so he goes back to being with someone even if he feels that person isnt right for him.

Holy cow, Dr. Freud. Don't you think you're overreaching there a little bit??? You never stated that your remark was just your opinion - yet that's all it is. Again you're stating your case like it's gospel. It's not.

"He (Colossus) is essentially afraid of being alone" - wow, and where in continuity is this shown?? It's news to me. In fact wasn't it mentioned in Astonishing #7 that Peter was choosing to spend too much time alone by himself? By the way, how do you KNOW that he wants to be with Kitty even though "he feels that person isn't right for him"? HOW, do you know this? You're inferring an awful lot there, and you expect to be taken seriously???

But those were feelings of a 14 year old girl contrasted with the reality of a 20 year old woman. But right now Colossus isnt being judged for who he is a Kitty only sees the rose colored picture of him she has in her mind. With more exposure (vulgar) she will begin to see the reality of the person and that will affect her view.

That's just it. Kitty IS a 20/21 yr. old woman. Just how stupid do you think she is??? She's NOT 14 anymore. This is a grown woman who knows what she wants. She's been shown to be a strong, resourceful, capable woman. She's one smart cookie, and it's kind of sad that you make her to be a lovestruck idiot.

Since this relationship is only beginning, I feel that Whedon has great things in store for both Shadowcat and Colossus.

[Huzzah!]

wow... you have the exact opposite opinion of a "pryde-wisdom" fan, who feel it is Kitty who got over Peter, not the other way around. in many ways, you have less jusitifcation for your opinion.

and here's where your analysis is wrong. Uncanny #197.

Kitty eventually did get over Peter im sure, but i feel its Piotr who despite his musings was ready to move on thus the drive to do so. His actions tell me what was in his psyche.

I dont think that reads as definative as you think id say. Also, nice to have conversation while remaining both passionate and cordial, unlike the previous poster, whom i shall simply ignore for being a ponce.

Im not saying he stopped carring for, but i dont think he was in love with her and that is what he is honoring. He cant go back to something that he doesnt feel as strongly for. He loves kitty, he certainly seems happy to have been in a relationship with her. But his actions show pretty clearly to me taht he was ready to move on. Futhermore i dont see how that says he broke up with Kitty to honor alien ladies memory, it reads more like he had something (real or otherwise_ and a return to the safe and secure and not grow as a person was something he couldnt simply go back to.

Breaking up with someone because you were coerced into digging on someoneelse and want to honor that doesnt really make much sense. It seems more likely to me that he reached out in someway, subconcious or otherwise to find an escape, he found one in Zsaji (why do aliens always have a z in their name...btw you have a picture handy, im curious) and because of what he felt there in contrast to what he had with Kitty he wanted to honor a truer love in a sense rather than go into something where he wasnt fully commited.



If you'll re-read Secret Wars, he goes on the offensive against the bad guys because he was seperated from Kitty, resulting in his injury that required Zsaji's treatment.

I dont wanna reread secret wars, it was terrible other than when Magneto bagged the Wasp. Funny.

And if you don't think CC was using Wolverine's comments in #183 as the truth of the matter, well, I think you are sadly mistaken.

Im sure that was CC's opinion but i dont really see it as truth per se. Colossus moved on in something fleeting, kitty moved on after the breakup to excalibur, a series i would never read, etc.

As you said in basic agreeance with me you think that kitty is sliding back into a role she once held with Colossus and the X-men. But to me, a relationship where both people have to essentially regress is a disaster waiting to happen.

Also...why the thing avatar. Get a Colossus/Kitty one just to burn my chops

:D

[xakko]

Also...why the thing avatar. Get a Colossus/Kitty one just to burn my chops

:D
i have a thing avy because i drew it to try to plug my soon to be departed Thing. until Marvel, fools they can be sometimes, cancels that, it shall remain.

and my avy has nothing to do with burning your chops.

I think Amokitty had some very valid points- it seems like you are bringing some sort of baggage to the equation here that isn't found in the books. The breakup WAS mandated by editorial, and to say that CC wouldn't know what the characters he had nearly exclusive control of were thinking is silly.

If you would care to elaborate which scenes you feel show Colossus WAS over Kitty and was eager to break up with her, i would love to see them.

[Huzzah!]

All i saw was a bunch of hissyfit "thats just your opinon" rule 4 breaking junk when i perused it.


Again basically its like this. Neither of us are wrong, its just a difference of interpretation

you look towards the wording, the way characters talk about something and read the book, and not so much into the psychology of the actions. Nothing wrong with that.

I personally look at the actions of the characters, read into what that means whether they think so or not, and look at it with the realism i see in the everyday world in contrast with the actions. When i see people doing what kitty and colossus, or what Jean and Scott are doing i see the problems with doing so, what it means and know its doomed to fail as it has always happened. I like reading into the psychological motivations of the characters, that which isnt on the surface.

I see Kitty acting like a kid again, i see colossus simply slipping back into a role he had and i think to myself, is this long lasting or even healthy? I say no. Ive never seen something like this work out, its just cyclical fear relationship stuff.

You say the alien Z thing is editor mandated and thus you look at it with that light. I see everything as canon until changed like it or not (thus i dont like spiderman at all right now because of the travesty that was Sin's Past. It ruined it for me). What does this story, that i may not like, tell me about the character.

Im not saying he was eager to break up with her, or would love to break her heart. Im saying that he wanted out. When he attached to alien Z lady and used that as an excuse to break up, that tells me all i need to know. Thats what people who are in relationships they dont want to be in do. They cheat or find some excuse to break up.

You read into that passage you quoted as being justification that Colossus broke up with kitty because he wanted to honor her memory. That doesnt smell right to me. It smells way off. I think that, if anything, is more justification for himself. Whenever a friend of mine would break up they would occasionally question themself over and over about it. Colossus in taht sense reads far truer to me than a character who broke up with kitty because he wanted to honor something that wasnt tangible anyway. That doesnt make sense, its illogical. It goes against the human condition. So on and so forth.

[xakko]

that's my problem with your analysis... you are applying your own experience to a comic book and especially to a character that comes from a completely different place than you.

You are trying to look at what happened without looking at the individual scenes that comprise it, and then seem to filter it through your own experience. I don't think that's any sort of way to look at what is happening here.

Yes, Peter gets involved with Zsaji on panel in Secret Wars. After thinking nothing but how he's been separated from his love, Kitty Pryde, he suddenly (almost inexplicably) falls for an alien who he could barely communicate with, except when he breathed in a mind-sharing mist. Later, after he is killed by Dr. Doom, this alien woman gives her life to bring him back.

Peter's first non-combat related thought bubble after the break-up was finding out about Rachel's future, Uncanny #188, "A future wherein Katya and I were married? Does that mean there is hope for us still? Is that what I want?" This seems to question your contention that he didn't want her anymore. He seems confused, still mooning over lost Zsaji, but still, Kitty is in his thoughts. When next given the opportunity, non-combat, it was #192 ("Pete honey, we ain't got a prayer... less'n you put your mind on business" "I know, Rogue. I am sorry. Katya- Kitty Pryde- is due home from Japan tonight, with Wolverine" "You could've gone with the Prof an' Storm to meet her." "How?!! It is because of me she left!! I have hurt her enough. Better for now to stay away. I did not ask to fall in love with the alien healer Zsaji. It happened, my feelings for Kitty- changed. At least- that is what I believed. Lately, I do not know, and the more I wonder, the more confused I become.") Follow that up with the aforementioned #197 talk, and I see CC rather irritated that his plans for the couple got hijacked by a petty editor.

I just think you are making a mistake in trying to relate your own experience to that of Peter and Kitty. And the funny thing is- I can understand and believe the feelings and thoughts that strike you as untrue.

Different strokes, I suppose.

[Huzzah!]

Indeed. Different strokes. But i find applying real world experiences to examining characters quite rewarding was well as practicle.

Hey whedon might pull something off other than kitty's clothes. Everything can be made to work, but im not seeing much effort and this relationship simply being nostalgic


In the end i say the action means he didnt want to be in a relationship with her, and although he questions it, a lot considering his other option is an alien and quite dead and Kitty, who he still cares for isnt taking it well. Much of it i contest is subconcious. A lot of the time break ups are like this. Leaving little clues or doing things dangerously so maybe your partner will catch you cheating. Stuff like that. Subconcious isnt really expressed in words, but is something to infur from actions.

Such as Iceman or Storm being gay. Angel being crazy. And Cyclops being a giant wuss, although to be fair thats said pretty much out right.

And its open to interpritation.

Which we all have.

[xakko]

Such as Iceman or Storm being gay. Angel being crazy. And Cyclops being a giant wuss, although to be fair thats said pretty much out right.

And its open to interpritation.

Which we all have.
aside from Storm's bisexuality, which CC has pretty much hit us over the head with, i simply disagree with you on all points.