? R. Comics Gud?

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Well, what does everybody think?

Are comics good?

Personally I think superheroes have taken a bit of a nose dive recently, I can't think of any I'm excited about (maybe Invincible, if they ever get around to releasing the 2nd HC), or even reading.

Non-superhero books seem to be at an all time high in the American market though.
Not just in quantity, but in quality as well.
And the graphic novel seems to becoming a major force as well.

So my answer would be, Comics are good, just not the one's from the 'big two'.

[Cactusakic]

My pull list is the biggest it's ever been right now. Nearly 100 titles per month. And I've gotta say that on the whole, maybe 35-40% are what I'd call good/excellent.
The rest are mostly average/fair and some are downright crappy, but I keep buying coz its a favorite artist/writer/character or I just plain hope its gonna get better soon.
The ones that I class as excellent are mostly non-superhero books. The majority of the Vertigo line, Walking Dead, Fell, Fear Agent, etc.
Having said that, a lot of my preferred Marvel pull-titles ARE superhero books. DD, Cap A, Hulk, Squadron Supreme, X-Factor, Runaways and The Ultimates. So I'd say that my 35-40% of excellent books are roughly half superhero and half non-superhero.
Marvel are still turning out some quality superhero books, but I'm not enjoying the vast majority of DC superhero books. The exception being the OYL Bat-titles.

[J'onn J'onzz]

Great H'ronmeer! Nearly 100! I've only got about seven!

[Cactusakic]

Great H'ronmeer! Nearly 100! I've only got about seven!

But you probably have a lot more spare cash than me. Or at least you can afford to feed yourself something other than noodles or pasta at the end of the month.
I really want to cut away some of the lesser titles I buy each month, but I'm terrified that the second I do those titles will become good and I'll have to pay even more to go back and buy the issues I missed coz they are now "hot" issues.
Like I said above, only 40% max of what I buy each month is actually really worth the money. I just dont have the discipline/willpower to get rid of the rest. I would have no complaints about being broke all the time if the reason I was broke was because I was buying 100 QUALITY titles per month, sadly that is not the case.

[stealthwise]

Ones put out in the past month? I haven't read them all but... there's a few.

Ones put out in the past year? Yeah, there's definitely some good stuff there.

The past ten years? Hell yeah, there are some great comics that have been produced.

[dan bailey]

Great H'ronmeer! Nearly 100! I've only got about seven!

i'm at about twice that, i think -- the figure fluctuates because a good deal of why i buy is (are?) miniseries, which of course begin & end all the time.

as i mentioned elsewhere a couple of days ago, on wednesday i came home from my lcs with no less than 13 new arrivals, almost certainly a personal record, & it would've been 14 if his shipment of supergirl & the losh hadn't been delayed.

as for percentage of a company's line that i buy, for me boom probably comes first (very limited number of titles, of course), followed by image, then dc, then marvel.

[Dan Apodaca]

I really want to cut away some of the lesser titles I buy each month, but I'm terrified that the second I do those titles will become good and I'll have to pay even more to go back and buy the issues I missed coz they are now "hot" issues.

I think you're worrying yourself into a frenzy about an incredibly rare scenario. I mean, when was the last time that actually happened?

[Dan Apodaca]

As for what I'm buying...

I'm one of those people who stops buying books when I don't like them anymore, so my list is pretty short, especially now that the Dead Girl mini is over.

The Ultimates (Chances are extremely slim that I'll continue reading when Loeb and Madureira take over.)
All-Star Superman

There are some really great comics being made right now, but 99% of them aren't coming from Marvel or DC.

[Pól Rua]

Recently, we've been rather spoiled for goodness in comics.
It's been a great time. However, I've got the feeling we're getting back to the bad ol' days again. We had a lovely creative boom in things like 100 Bullets, The Goon, Bone, Castle Waiting, Jack Staff, Invincible, Walking Dead, Queen and Country... so much stuff...

But I've got the feeling between all this House of M/Infinite Crisis/Civil War shenanigans, that we're sliding back into a crunch.

It used to be that I was able to ask a new customer what they were into and just hand them a comic which they would love forever, but it seems to be getting a little more difficult these days...

[Cactusakic]

I think you're worrying yourself into a frenzy about an incredibly rare scenario. I mean, when was the last time that actually happened?

Captain America, Iron Man, Walking Dead and 100 Bullets.

Although it's not exactly what I described above in these cases. None of these were on my pull list then dropped. I just read the solicitations and thought "meh" about each of them. Then the reviews were through the roof and I had to go back and buy the entire runs of each. Cap and Iron Man were'nt too bad price-wise, but early issues of Bullets and Walking Dead cost me a fair bit of cash.

So now I add anything to my pull list that I'm even remotely interested in and I cant remember the last time I dropped a title, even if its consistently crappy.

[Greg Hatcher]

Well, what does everybody think?

Are comics good?

Hmp. The trouble is that I start to answer this and then think, hell, that's a column, why am I wasting it on a message board?

Here is the short answer that I keep coming back to. Mainstream superhero comics are at a level of CRAFT today that, overall, is probably higher than it's ever been. However, they are aimed at an audience that is so insular and jaded, so unwilling to A) let go of childhood favorites and at the same time B) demanding a maturity of subject matter that the form isn't really equipped to deal with, that what you get is this weird bastard-child artform where everything is done with the idea that it's going to be for the Watchmen audience. This works great with stuff like Planetary or Astro City or sometihng like that, and you can even kind of make it work in books like Daredevil or Gotham Central.... but when you start applying it to the Justice League ("Identity Crisis") or the Avengers (The Ultimates), it starts to feel creepy and weird. My personal rule of thumb has generally been that if your book gets a licensing deal for cereal or toys or some other kid-friendly tie-in, chances are that it really is inappropriate to be doing rape storylines or wife-beating or whatever else the writer has decided he wants to prove his adult-content credibility with.

However, judging from sales and reviews and so on, I'm pretty clearly in the minority on this. Which leads me to my secondary conclusion -- mainstream comics might be well-crafted, they might even be good, but they are obviously not aimed at me any more. I'm not sure who the audience is supposed to be for this hybrid thing that monthly superhero books from the big two have morphed into. But I think I must not be it.

[Dan Apodaca]

Captain America, Iron Man, Walking Dead and 100 Bullets.

Although it's not exactly what I described above in these cases. None of these were on my pull list then dropped. I just read the solicitations and thought "meh" about each of them. Then the reviews were through the roof and I had to go back and buy the entire runs of each. Cap and Iron Man were'nt too bad price-wise, but early issues of Bullets and Walking Dead cost me a fair bit of cash.

Ever heard of trades?

So now I add anything to my pull list that I'm even remotely interested in and I cant remember the last time I dropped a title, even if its consistently crappy.

And you're spending less money this way? I find it hard to believe that a 100-book pull list costs less than buying back issues of certain runs. And certainly not less than buying the trades.

[Dan Apodaca]

but when you start applying it to the Justice League ("Identity Crisis") or the Avengers (The Ultimates), it starts to feel creepy and weird. My personal rule of thumb has generally been that if your book gets a licensing deal for cereal or toys or some other kid-friendly tie-in, chances are that it really is inappropriate to be doing rape storylines or wife-beating or whatever else the writer has decided he wants to prove his adult-content credibility with.

I don't think it's fair to compare anything from IC to The Ultimates, as one is the main, permanent continuity, and the other is an "alternate". No matter what is done in The Ultimates, it'll never have any effect on the character brands. Jarvis isn't officially dead, just because he got shot in The Ultimates.

Also, it's not like that book invented the idea of Hank Pym hitting his wife. That was a defining part of his character in the regular MU long before the Ultimate line was even conceived. Any blame for the inclusion of spousal abuse in the Avengers lies with people older than Mark Millar.

[Cactusakic]

Not a fan of trades.
Only buy them when I have no other choice.
Silly, I know but thats just how I prefer to read them.
That said, I do love OHC's.
I've recently bought the Walking Dead #1-24 OHC, the Alias Omnibus, Invincible Vol#1 HC. I have also ordered the Kingdom Come, Batman: Hush, Batman DKR/DKSA, Crisis On Infinite Earths and Watchmen absolute editions. I already have all of them in singles except Kingdom Come but the HC's are just so nice and look great on the shelf. Plus they save any wear and tear on my originals.

[Dan Apodaca]

Not a fan of trades.
Only buy them when I have no other choice.
Silly, I know but thats just how I prefer to read them.

You prefer to have the story interrupted by ads?

[Greg Hatcher]

I don't think it's fair to compare anything from IC to The Ultimates, as one is the main, permanent continuity, and the other is an "alternate". No matter what is done in The Ultimates, it'll never have any effect on the character brands. Jarvis isn't officially dead, just because he got shot in The Ultimates.

Ah, but here is my point, which you are, I think, too close to see. We know, instantly, what the difference is between "Ultimate" and "mainstream" Marvel. Because we are steeped in this stuff and have been for years. But I'm thinking of the scenario where a kid gets his parents to buy the cartoon DVD for him at Target and then the next week at the mall is able to wheedle them into the Ultimates trade.

Chances are it won't hurt the kid at all. I read James Bond and Mike Hammer novels at twelve and I lived through it. But I know if my MOTHER had been paying attention she would have hit the roof. Anyway, that's a side issue. My point is more that this hybrid thing that is the 'adult' superhero story -- hell, never mind the Ultimates. What about that grotesque sex scene with a miniature Hank and a full-size Janet, or whatever that was a few months back? Or any of another half-dozen examples I could rattle off, and you could too, if you were being honest? -- this hybrid thing, whoever it's for, it's clearly not for kids or teens, but it's not really for GROWN-UPS, either. It's basically aimed at the arrested adolescent. That's my complaint with it. If it's going to have adolescent values and adolescent melodrama, then for crying out loud, BE that way, be age-appropriate. Wear it proudly. Doing solid young-adult-type fiction is a perfectly honorable profession and there's no shame in an adult enjoying it too. (Harry Potter is the easiest example, but there are lots of others.) But trying to do R-rated young-adult fiction leaves me feeling grossed out, quite honestly. The main feeling it leaves me with after reading it is being embarrassed for the people that are doing it, more than anything else.

Also, it's not like that book invented the idea of Hank Pym hitting his wife. That was a defining part of his character in the regular MU long before the Ultimate line was even conceived. Any blame for the inclusion of spousal abuse in the Avengers lies with people older than Mark Millar.

Well, I'm talking about a general trend and you want to get specific, but I am quite happy to lay blame for this idiot idea on whoever came up with it. I am pretty sure it was Jim Shooter. I'm not interested in the specific instance so much as I am this trend of ham-handedly trying to cram 'adult' content into a milieu it was never designed for. It's clumsy and stupid, like a twelve year-old trying to prove his adulthood by talking dirty. That's what I object to.

[Cactusakic]

You prefer to have the story interrupted by ads?

Nope. But I do prefer having single issues in my hands as opposed to trades. Just stating a preference.
Also, I like being able to say to my comic book collector friends that I have (x) run of (x) comic. E.g: "I have #1-71 of 100 Bullets", instead of "I have 9 100 Bullets trades."

[Dan Apodaca]

Nope. But I do prefer having single issues in my hands as opposed to trades. Just stating a preference.
Also, I like being able to say to my comic book collector friends that I have (x) run of (x) comic. E.g: "I have #1-71 of 100 Bullets", instead of "I have 9 100 Bullets trades."

Ah, I see. It's a collector compulsion. Well, to each his own, I guess.

[Nate C.]

Greg,

I think you are making excellent points and I think someone other than fans should be reading them.

Your analogy to Harry Potter is spot on. This amalgamation of modern comic hero storytelling is unsatisfying. Do adolescent fiction, or do adult fiction, but choose one, not both.

[Greg Hatcher]

Greg,

I think you are making excellent points and I think someone other than fans should be reading them.


Well, my MOTHER actually reads the blog once in a while.

Actually according to Cronin the number of unique visitors to the site was something over a thousand. And that was the old address. Which makes this actually the most widely-read thing I've ever worked on... most of the magazines I've sold things to have cirulation around 800-900.

It's kind of an odd notion that THIS dumb little hobby thing I took on for fun is getting better circulation than the magazine jobs I slave over.