The candy thief.

[Gilda Dent]

I occasionally give small treats to my students as incentives for good behavior. How exactly this works doesn't really matter, so I'll skip the details.

At the end of the school day, students are split into two groups, bus riders who go off with a couple of aides to the buses, and car riders who are escorted by their teacher to the car pullout. I have a dozen bus riders and five car riders.

The bus riders leave early, the car riders hang out for a bit and clean the room, in exchange for which they get their choice of a small treat, a Dum Dum, Smartie, Jolly Rancher, or Starburst. They all cost roughly the same per piece.

Lately I've noticed that the candy supplies have been depleting themselves somewhat more quickly than I'd expect, though I don't go to the trouble of counting. It just seemed that way. But once in awhile one of the containers seems to have a lot less than I remember. In particular, one day last week I leave with the car riders, with the large container about two-thirds full of DumDums, and come back to find it about a third full. Some enterprising young person had managed to help him or herself to a nice cache of DumDum suckers, about 20 or 30 I'd guess. Enough to make it obvious that they'd been taken.

The same thing seemed to have happened a couple of days before with the Jolly Ranchers. It was curious, but I thought maybe I was imagining it, and in any case there was no way to know who did it, so I let it go, and was more careful to put it away. Before leaving the room.

This afternoon a very trustworthy student stops by at my room to ask if all the bus riders have been dismissed. I say they have. This is perhaps the fourth or fifth time this has happened in the past couple of weeks, a student is unaccounted for.

In addition, the same student has on several occasions, claiming to have forgotten something, asked to return to the room, having done so often enough that the last time, last week, he was escorted back to the room, had no explanation for what he needed, got nothing, and left whining about being mistreated. Poor kid.

My car riders are done cleaning up today, and I'm standing in the doorway to monitor the room and hallway, and as I glance up the hallway, there is the late returner peeking around the corner and disappearing.

A few minutes later, as we exit the wing hallway to the main hall, off in the direction of the bus exit, there is the same students hiding in a niche and popping out to check. I send off my car riders to wait up front and escort him to the buses personally.

And it is at this point that I finally put two and two together. Candy has been disappearing after school. The same student has bee asking to be sent back and getting nothing, or has been sneaking back after I've left. Could this be a coincidence?

It's possible, I suppose, but I think unlikely. This student is not exactly the most enthusiastic supporter of the concept of respecting other people's property. He has a really annoying habit of scanning the floor for items people have dropped, picking them up, pretending not to notice the student claiming ownership, then trying to claim it as his own and refusing to return it based on the legal theory of "finders keepers".

But he's very clever, for a six-year-old, as are a lot of them, about phrasing things so as to avoid responsibility, and is quite good at coming up with excuses for not doing what he doesn't want to do.

I say clever, but not really smart, in that he works much harder at coming up with excuses for not doing his work that doing the work would require, but without actually getting out of the work itself. I don't accept the excuses.

He even had an excuse prepared today for why he was sneaking back to class, which was to surprise one of the girls. As I said, more clever than smart. He's also one of those whose every word when challenged is tinged with richeous indignation when confronted. He's already playing martyr before any accusation is made.

I'm of two minds about what to do at this point.

The prudent thing to do would be to simply lock the door when escorting the students out to the cars, thus thwarting any attempts by anyone and call home to report the sneaking around after class, which does little good. Grandma says she'll take care of it, but always accepts whiny boy's excuses.

The fun thing would be to set up bait, send the car riders with another teacher, the close the door, turn out the light, leave a candy jar on the counter close to the door and sit where I can easily monitor the candy to see if I can catch the thief, whom I am almost certain is whiny boy.

It's frustrating that he's so smart, but spends all his time and energy avoiding work, making excuses, and getting in trouble when it would take less time and energy to just do the work and get the incentives that way.

The thing is, I expect verbal gymnastics to avoid taking responsibility and occasional outright lying, but stealing, even things of insignificant value bugs me at a level that verbal dishonesty doesn't.

And I hate, hate, hate whining.

I'll decide my course of action tomorrow. Do what's prudent, or play Nancy Drew, girl detective.

Hmmmm.

Gilda

[Sir Tim Drake]

It's frustrating that he's so smart, but spends all his time and energy avoiding work, making excuses, and getting in trouble when it would take less time and energy to just do the work and get the incentives that way.

He reminds me of someone:

http://www.chs.riverview.wednet.edu/math/calvin.jpg

[darkkeeperjr]

Play nancy, make sure you scare him by leaping out or something. Then think of a way for him to earn some candy. let him know he's clever then have him focus his energy in to something better.

Don't know how far that would work for a six yr. old.

[Josh S]

He reminds me of someone:

http://www.chs.riverview.wednet.edu/math/calvin.jpg



That's exactly what I thought.

[Michael P]

I suppose you'd get in trouble for hooking up the candy to a 9 volt battery...

[Jeff Brady]

Before you leave the room, put a thick layer of red acrillyc paint all over the candy jar.

[Harlock]

Play nancy, make sure you scare him by leaping out or something. Then think of a way for him to earn some candy. let him know he's clever then have him focus his energy in to something better.

Don't know how far that would work for a six yr. old.
I wouldn't try the leaping out bit, lest you end up being sued for emotional damage. Hiding and catching the thief, however, is a good idea. I think catching a child at this age, redirecting that energy and wit into something constructive (like say schoolwork or even extracuricular work), could actually be a favor to him. Better to learn at an early age that crime does not pay than to get away with it for an even longer period.

My wife teaches High School and they recently had a student sneaking into the teacher's lounge in my wife's building, stealing items from the refrigerator. Stupid stuff, like box drinks, a bag of triscuits, a bottle of juice. The boy is not poor. He is not hungry. He should know better. A week or so after he was caught stealing, he was arrested for arson.

So, please, do something now for this child. I think not doing something is potentially more cruel than his actually getting in trouble for this relatively minor incident.

[Wesley Dodds]

Gilda, your post needs a poll. I vote for "Nancy Drew".

Nancy Drew his ass!

[Nate C.]

whiny boy's ... the thief, whom I am almost certain is whiny boy.


Gilda

ooooh, you had me till here.

[Wesley Dodds]

Gilda, think of the retro outfits you'll get to wear!

http://www.ospreydesign.com/foreword/archives/nd11a.jpg

[Gilda Dent]

I wouldn't try the leaping out bit, lest you end up being sued for emotional damage. Hiding and catching the thief, however, is a good idea. I think catching a child at this age, redirecting that energy and wit into something constructive (like say schoolwork or even extracuricular work), could actually be a favor to him. Better to learn at an early age that crime does not pay than to get away with it for an even longer period.

I don't ignore misbehavior, and I do what I can to redirect his energy into constructive work.

So, please, do something now for this child. I think not doing something is potentially more cruel than his actually getting in trouble for this relatively minor incident.

You needn't worry about my letting troubling behavior go uncorrected. I agree that it does the child a disservice. It's one of the things my aide and I clashed about a few weeks back.

Gilda

[Jeff Brady]

ooooh, you had me till here.

No more hit & runs from you. Explain your problem, or don't post at all.

Sheesh.

[Nate C.]

No more hit & runs from you. Explain your problem, or don't post at all.

Sheesh.

No more snark from you.

Ignore me or don't post at all.

Gilda is calling one of her student's a "whiney boy".

She's ten times better than that.

[Gilda Dent]

Gilda, think of the retro outfits you'll get to wear!

http://www.ospreydesign.com/foreword/archives/nd11a.jpg

Cool!

Come to think of it, maybe I should have said Shelby Wu. Nah, she's cool, and I'm a nerd. Nancy Drew it is.

Gilda

[Harlock]

I don't ignore misbehavior, and I do what I can to redirect his energy into constructive work.



You needn't worry about my letting troubling behavior go uncorrected. I agree that it does the child a disservice. It's one of the things my aide and I clashed about a few weeks back.

Gilda
I'm sorry Gilda, if i implied you did not correct behavior. I was merely saying that catching this boy and confronting him seemed a good way to bridge into that correction part, so that he may learn ;)

[Gilda Dent]

I'm sorry Gilda, if i implied you did not correct behavior. I was merely saying that catching this boy and confronting him seemed a good way to bridge into that correction part, so that he may learn ;)

My mistake. I agree.

Gilda

[The Dog]

Just pray he and the Gumball thief never team up, or else no candy jar will be safe! No Snicker left unfilched! No Starburst left uncaptured. And think about the poor candy store owners being molested by these two!

You must stop this little candy thief before its too late, Nancy Drew... I mean Gilda Dent!

Stop this child with the fury you carry as a teacher getting her candy robbed! Do it not only for his sake, but the sake of all the good little tykes who don't go stealing candy!

They mustn't suffer for this child's evil! Don't allow them to suffer Gilda! DON'T ALLOW THEM TO SUFFER!

... Oh, and may the "Force of Being A Teacher Robbed" be with you.

[Gilda Dent]

No more snark from you.

Ignore me or don't post at all.

Gilda is calling one of her student's a "whiney boy".

She's ten times better than that.

It's a convenient way of describing him as a boy who whines continually. It's not meant as a judgment, just a shorthand way of describing a person without using a name by using a [characteristic][noun] description.

It would be like calling me "nerdy girl" or the boy that sits next to him "quiet boy". Not a judgment, a description.

Gilda

[Nate C.]

It's a convenient way of describing him a boy who whines continually. It's not meant as a judgment, just a shorthand way of describing a person without using a name by using a [characteristic][noun] description.

It would be like calling me "nerdy girl" or the boy that sits next to him "quiet boy". Not a judgment, a description.

Gilda

Cool.

See? I told you you were 10 x's better than that.

[StoneGold]

You shouldn't give them candy, anyways. You're going to turn them all into diabetic lardasses. You are killing the future of America!!!

[Wesley Dodds]

Come to think of it, maybe I should have said Shelby Wu. Nah, she's cool, and I'm a nerd. Nancy Drew it is.

Yay! Basically, I'm for any solution that involves retro outfits.

[Gilda Dent]

You shouldn't give them candy, anyways. You're going to turn them all into diabetic lardasses. You are killing the future of America!!!

That is a secondary benefit, in addition to incentive for behavior control, yes.

Gilda

[Valmore]

You could just take the candy jar with you.

[Erebus]

You could just take the candy jar with you.
Or better yet, give it to me.

[Gilda Dent]

You could just take the candy jar with you.

It's more trouble than it's worth to be carrying around a container of candy among a large group of children for the 15 minutes or so that it takes for all the kids to be picked up, and I have four candy containers, one for each kind.

Gilda

[Valmore]

It's more trouble than it's worth to be carrying around a container of candy among a large group of children for the 15 minutes or so that it takes for all the kids to be picked up, and I have four candy containers, one for each kind.

Got any really high shelves or lockable shelves?

[howyadoin]

I vote for the detective option, too. The kid needs a little confrontation; otherwise he'll just step up his game.

[twilight]

If you do hide in the classroom make sure you spring out in a gorilla mask when he attempts to steal the candy.

That'll teach 'im.

[Paul Newell]

Yay! Basically, I'm for any solution that involves retro outfits.
Which is why, when Wes has something really important to solve, he wears one of these combinations:

http://www.karensvariety.com/images/SewingClothes/Simplicity/Simplicity6785a.jpg
http://www.karensvariety.com/images/SewingClothes/Simplicity/Simplicity9087a.jpg

[Archyduke]

Second from the right on the bottom row is swank.

[StoneGold]

Second from the right on the bottom row is swank.
I realize it's because of the open vest, but it ain't as swank as bottom row second from the left. Is the stache part of the pattern?

[Paul Newell]

Second from the right on the bottom row is swank.
He says that bottom, first on the left, is fetching....Though the way he pronounces it, I suspect he's actually saying "felching".

[K'Nort]

I knew an elementary school teacher who had a class thief issue and it turned out to be her favourite student. Said it was a destabilizing experience (shortterm) on several levels but did allow her to relate better to the parents afterwards (she had no kids of her own yet).

[thehod]

I take it hiding a mouse trap in the jar isn't an option? :)

[Spike-X]

he works much harder at coming up with excuses for not doing his work that doing the work would require...

He's also one of those whose every word when challenged is tinged with richeous indignation when confronted.

I used to work at a school. I hate that kid.

[Typo Lad]

Gilda,

I think the idea of having another teacher take the kids out won't work. I suspect this young sneak (or indeed, whoever it is) has a vantage point from where he can "keep chickie" on you.

What I would advise is either a video recording or idnellible dye and you waiting outside. I suspect, however, that the dye woulde make the parent hate you. The video option is costly.

You could also try putting one of those diarettic candies in and wait by the toilet.

[west3man]

Whatever happens, I'd suggest talking with the class about avoidance and excuses. I think they might benefit from being shown what you said about the redirecting that energy. (I smell a skit.)


Oh yeah...

1) "Whiny boy" is a fine descriptor, imo.
2) Video tape the theft.

[Joe Rice]

"Whiney boy" is accurate and I've no problem with it. I've taught several "Whiney Boys" in my time, and that was probably the kindest way I referred to them outside of school.

[thehod]

"Whiney boy" is accurate and I've no problem with it. I've taught several "Whiney Boys" in my time, and that was probably the kindest way I referred to them outside of school.

I suppose names like "whiney little runt who deserves a damn good belting and the fear of God putting into him so he learns to keep his damn hands off of things that don't belong to him" doesn't trip of the tongue quite as well.

[west3man]

...that was probably the kindest way I referred to them outside of school.
Ha!
I could imagine myself using some rather harsh descriptions, off-hours, as well.

[Nate C.]

Ha!
I could imagine myself using some rather harsh descriptions, off-hours, as well.

The thing is, and this is the last word I'll say on the matter, because in no way am I impugning Gilda's teaching ability, but as a teacher of two years myself, I can tell you that there's no "off hours/on hours" as a teacher.

You calling a child a whiney boy in your off hours will effect how you treat him on hours.

It will. Maybe imperceptably, but it will.

[Joe Rice]

I suppose names like "whiney little runt who deserves a damn good belting and the fear of God putting into him so he learns to keep his damn hands off of things that don't belong to him" doesn't trip of the tongue quite as well.

Actually, it does.

[west3man]

The thing is, and this is the last word I'll say on the matter, because in no way am I impugning Gilda's teaching ability, but as a teacher of two years myself, I can tell you that there's no "off hours/on hours" as a teacher.

You calling a child a whiney boy in your off hours will effect how you treat him on hours.

It will. Maybe imperceptably, but it will.
Maybe so.
I suspect it's the feelings that inspired the label, moreso than the label, itself, that would affect the way the teacher treats the student.

What you're suggesting seems more like blaming the smoke when a house burns down.

[zilch]

Which is why, when Wes has something really important to solve, he wears one of these combinations:

http://www.karensvariety.com/images/SewingClothes/Simplicity/Simplicity6785a.jpg
http://www.karensvariety.com/images/SewingClothes/Simplicity/Simplicity9087a.jpg

Thread drift ahoy, Cap'n!

Second row...
have you EVER seen any guy wearing this crap?

[Matt Algren]

Thread drift ahoy, Cap'n!

Second row...
have you EVER seen any guy wearing this crap?
http://www.karensvariety.com/images/SewingClothes/Simplicity/Simplicity6785a.jpg
http://www.karensvariety.com/images/SewingClothes/Simplicity/Simplicity9087a.jpg

Attention second row: The belt goes UNDER the jacket. Repeat it with me. The belt goes UNDER the jacket.

[Harlock]

Comic geeks playing at fashion critics... the irony is delectable.

[Shellhead]

I realize it's because of the open vest, but it ain't as swank as bottom row second from the left. Is the stache part of the pattern?

I couldn't take my eyes off that outfit, I was struck with sheer overwhelming horror until the phone rang a minute ago.

[howyadoin]

Thread drift ahoy, Cap'n!

Second row...
have you EVER seen any guy wearing this crap?You don't remember the 60s?

[Slick]

All I know is that the "Nancy Drew" option would make a better story, even if it doesn't work. That's what's important, here.

[Matt Algren]

All I know is that the "Nancy Drew" option would make a better story, even if it doesn't work. That's what's important, here.I was thinking more along the lines of Encyclopedia Brown, or Sally Kimball in this case.

Remember, Gilda, M&Ms didn't come in blue in 1994. He COULDN'T have gotten them then.

[Shellhead]

It would be awesome if you could get ahold of one of those exploding dye packs that they use to deter bank robbers.

[howyadoin]

It would be awesome if you could get ahold of one of those exploding dye packs that they use to deter bank robbers.Long as she captured the whole thing on video.

[Harlock]

Long as she captured the whole thing on video.
I'm not entirely cetain which would be funnier; the thief getting covered in dye or knowing that he shat himself when it blew up.

[Gilda Dent]

I escorted my car riders out the front, left them with another teacher, giving the boy the chance to return to the class without my being in the area, then returned roughly a minute later. It was empty.

I wish I had something more mysteryish to report.

I guess since I know when it's being stolen it's more important to prevent further thefts by locking up than to try to catch him (or her). It was fun contemplating it, though.

Gilda

[Spike-X]

Maybe leave a little note - "You know it's wrong to steal, (child's name)"?

[howyadoin]

Maybe leave a little note - "You know it's wrong to steal, (child's name)"?I wouldn't put anything in writing without proof.

[Typo Lad]

Yeah, the name is a bad, bad idea. The note is good though.

[Gilda Dent]

Yeah, the note without a name does sound like a good idea. I'll be doing the backtrack a few more times just to be sure.

Gilda

[Quarterwolf]

You don't remember the 60s?

You were alive in the 60's?

*points and laughs*

[Spike-X]

The reason I suggested the name is because it would tell whiney boy (I'm not a teacher, I can call him what I want!) that he's been found out, without Gilda having to confront him, and him being all uppity and denying it. He can't exactly come to her and say "It's not me!" because how else would he see the note? It would let her get into his head, in a way, and hopefully give his conscience something to think about.

But yeah, it would probably be a bad idea to put the name on the note.

[K'Nort]

You were alive in the 60's?

*points and laughs*

Have you really looked at 80s fashion lately?

[howyadoin]

You were alive in the 60's?

*points and laughs*Yes, I'm old.

[west3man]

I escorted my car riders out the front, left them with another teacher, giving the boy the chance to return to the class without my being in the area, then returned roughly a minute later. It was empty.

I wish I had something more mysteryish to report.

I guess since I know when it's being stolen it's more important to prevent further thefts by locking up than to try to catch him (or her). It was fun contemplating it, though.

Gilda
I'm surprised read this from you after what you said about the value of correcting poor behavior.

[Gilda Dent]

I'm surprised read this from you after what you said about the value of correcting poor behavior.

Ack. Editing left me with something a little different from what I was intending.

I'm going to do the same thing, escort out my students and come back to see if I can catch the thief in the act a minute or so later. If the thief isn't there, I'll lock up for the next ten minutes. It'll give me a couple of chances to catch him and still have things relatively safe.

Gilda

[Puma]

You were alive in the 60's?

*points and laughs*

*glares towards the wolf*

[K'Nort]

Am I a bad person for not liking Harriet the Spy?

[Puma]

Am I a bad person for not liking Harriet the Spy?

no.



I don't like her either and I am not a bad person.


really...I'm not...c'mon...really

[Winslow]

Yes, I'm old.

I think you're a young man in the prime of your life in every way . . . .

On topic: Gilda - I got nothin' . . .

[Archyduke]

Harriet the Spy busted me for wire fraud. Rassum frassum little so and so.

[Quarterwolf]

no.



I don't like her either and I am not a bad person.


really...I'm not...c'mon...really

*glares toward the Puma*

[Valmore]

But yeah, it would probably be a bad idea to put the name on the note.

The note idea is good. The name on the note is bad - because if Gilda is wrong and it's another child doing it, it could open up a whole can of worms best left unopened. The kid doing it could tell the kid she wrote down that teacher thinks it's him/her and then the child would feel like Gilda didn't trust him/her.

[Dan Apodaca]

Turn the lights off and wait for the thief to arrive. When they're reaching into the candy jar, snap a polaroid picture of the culprit. The flash will scare them enough to stay visible, and the picture is all the evidence you need.

[Magneto_X]

Am I a bad person for not liking Harriet the Spy?

Mmmmmm.........Michelle Trachtenberg

P.S. Go with the Nancy Drew option, Gilda.

[Dan Apodaca]

Mmmmmm.........Michelle Trachtenberg

She was, like, ten when they made that movie.

Seriously, man. That's fucking disgusting.

[Jeff Brady]

She was, like, ten when they made that movie.

Seriously, man. That's fucking disgusting.

He's probably thinking of the last season of Buffy more than Harriet the Spy.

[Dan Apodaca]

He's probably thinking of the last season of Buffy more than Harriet the Spy.

He quoted a post about Harriet the Spy. That's what I'm going on.

[Matt Algren]

Turn the lights off and wait for the thief to arrive. When they're reaching into the candy jar, snap a polaroid picture of the culprit. The flash will scare them enough to stay visible, and the picture is all the evidence you need.
Wasn't that an episode of The Andy Griffith Show?

[Gilda Dent]

First, and most importantly, I feel I must address this:

The movie version of Harriet the Spy is one of the worst adaptations of a children's book in history. It's the anti-Matilda. The book is very good, especially for girls of a certain age.

~

Ok, onto the investigation.

Two candy thieves caught today.

We're out at recess. A girl who is a willful, stubborn, and manipulative child has been having a particularly difficult time lately. She skipped her bathroom break on the way back from lunch, then ten minutes later at recess asks if she can go use the restroom. I don't believe her for a second, but she is one of the suspects for the during the day thefts, so I send her in. She watches me, checking twice to see if I'm following to check her going down the hall. I wasn't. As she disappears inside the building, I cruise over to the outside of the wing and up to my classroom, where I routinely leave the shades open to give us natural light. I figure that if she ran, and it's likely she did, she'll have had about a 30-40 second head start on me, time enough to go in the room so I can catch her there.

I get to the window, and scan the room, finding it empty. At second glance, however, I see a white shirt bent over behind my desk. She stands up and turns to go, her hand holding four packages of Smarties. She actually had the gall to smile at me. I motioned for her to go outside, and walk over to the door to meet her. Her hands are empty, and she says she put the candy back, and is now angry with me.

I tell her I'm very disappointed that she lied to me and was stealing. She gets indignant. She did, she says, go to the bathroom and did get a drink, then on the way back went into the room to get her toy (a toy cell phone I'd confiscated a few days before). No mention of the candy. She gets rude and defiant, attempts to blame me for her behavior, and begins reflecting my statements back at me in a mocking, sarcastic tone. Remember, this is a seven-year-old, not a teen. She was like this at six and seven.

The discussion going nowhere, I tell her we need to go in so we can call home and tell her parents what she did, and she refuses, telling me she's not getting up. I'm not picking her up to carry her in, in part because I doubt I have the strength to do that, but mostly because that's not my job. I ask another teacher to watch my students, and go into the room, write out her behavior referral, and call home. Dad tells me it must be something I did, because she doesn't act this way at home.

I go out and tell her to come in so I can read the referral to her before sending her up to the office. I start reading it, and she blurts out, "Suspect Boy's been doing it too!"

Ah, six-year-olds, experts at the two wrongs make a right defense. If caught, turn someone else in immediately.

I ask her if she's seen him do this. "No, but he was handing out suckers at the bus stop last week, and he said he got them after school." She went on to say he'd done this several times.

"You be sure to tell Mr. VP about that when you talk to him," I tell her, and I make note of this on a sticky note, which I attach to the behavioral referral. I send her up to the office, make a copy of each, the drop it off.

Suspect Boy is called up to the office a few minutes after recess ends. I called home to report what had happened, and Grandma told me that Suspect Boy had told her I gave him the suckers. Ah.

Mr. VP talked to me after school today, and told me I need to think about my part of the problem. Leaving the candy where the students are able to reach it makes it, in his words, an "attractive nuisance", where an impulsive student might be tempted to do something he might not otherwise be tempted to do.

He's referred to the toys on and behind my desk as an "attractive nuisance" also. By this standard, stores are an "attractive nuisance", as are the entire contents of every home the children might visit.

My take on it is that students need to be taught that just because they can do something like take another's property without permission doesn't mean they should.

The candy is kept behind my desk, where students are not permitted to be at any time without express permission from me. At no time are students within reach unless they are there for the purpose of stealing it or doing something else they're not allowed to do.

I'll know the exact disposition tomorrow.

In the meantime, I feel like a TV detective. I caught one thief, and in a matter of minutes she rolled on her partner like Beethoven.

I even got that TV timing, where I was standing outside the classroom watching her at the moment she was stealing from me.

I don't know whether to be disappointed or proud of myself.

I did use it as an opportunity to discuss respecting property, review the rules, and do some role playing.

Gilda "Nancy Drew" Dent

[howyadoin]

Mr. VP talked to me after school today, and told me I need to think about my part of the problem.My God, that man must suck at his job.

[Winslow]

Mr. VP talked to me after school today, and told me I need to think about my part of the problem. Leaving the candy where the students are able to reach it makes it, in his words, an "attractive nuisance", where an impulsive student might be tempted to do something he might not otherwise be tempted to do.

He's referred to the toys on and behind my desk as an "attractive nuisance" also. By this standard, stores are an "attractive nuisance", as are the entire contents of every home the children might visit.

I call bullshit on Mr. VP. These are 7 and 8 year olds, not toddlers. Having said that, I'd remove the candy deal altogether.

Hope the parents/grandparents actually take an opportuntiy to correct the children in their care and teach them a lesson. From the kid's reactions, I don't hold out a lot of hope that will happen.

[howyadoin]

I call bullshit on Mr. VP. These are 7 and 8 year olds, not toddlers. Having said that, I'd remove the candy deal altogether. Further to that, I'd explain to the rest of the class why the candy is gone.

[Shellhead]

You could show the class a couple of scenes from Full Metal Jacket, when the sergeant punished the men for Private Pyle's screw-up, and the soap party that night. Then announce to the class that the candy program has been terminated due to the thefts by indignant girl and suspect boy, referring to them by their names.

[Puma]

I'd remove the candy as well and explain that due to someone in the class taking the candy without permission that it is better to not have any for the rest of the year.

[K'Nort]

I can see suspending the candy program, but naming the kids could easily do more harm than good. And may be against rules somewhere. They may be brats, but they're still redeemable. Going overboard with punishment -- particularly of the public humiliation type -- has got to make them less so.

[DarkBlade]

I'd explain why, but not who. I have to do the same thing when I have to limit the way a program is used or change privledge access levels for things at work.

[west3man]

As you said, Gilda, being able to do something doesn't mean one should.

I'm sure there are a bunch of things around the classroom that students might want to own. I guess that means you should empty it out from wall-to-wall.

[Typo Lad]

I'd remove the candy as well and explain that due to someone in the class taking the candy without permission that it is better to not have any for the rest of the year.
Absolutely. I'd do a one month suspension of the reward program, not naming names.

And I think your VP is a douche. How does he expect children to learn personal responsibility?

And the father of the girl has blinder on. Of course she doesn't do that at home. This isn't home. Children behave differently at school than they do at home.

[K'Nort]

And the father of the girl has blinder on. Of course she doesn't do that at home. This isn't home. Children behave differently at school than they do at home.

Also a LOT of parents bluster and bluff out of embarassment and/or short-term denial. She may still face consequences.

[Gilda Dent]

Candy as a reward has been suspended for a week, In the two weeks left after that, it will be locked in my desk drawer and tokens given in its place, with an occasional set time to exchange tokens for a piece of candy. In the meantime, they can only exchange tokens for privileges.

During role-playing and the discussion on responsibility this afternoon, I did explain exactly why there are new restrictions on the candy without giving out any names, but this is a school. Everyone knows or will know by tomorrow anyway. Heck, half the students knew Suspect Boy was stealing from me and handing it out, but didn't say anything because, hey, free candy. They're at a stage of moral development where somebody else stealing and giving it to them is just enough cover that they don't see taking it as wrong.

I doubt that I've converted them to being people who will now stand fast in the face of temptation, but hopefully I've at least planted the seed.

Gilda

[Typo Lad]

Did you hear:

"But I[/b} didn't steal any! Why am [b]I being punished?"

An awful lot?

[Bloopinator]

If suspect boy is whiney boy than man it's scary how much he's like me. He acts like me (Or so people say) and he stole candy which is what I did in the 1st grade. Creepy.

[Harlock]

I ask another teacher to watch my students, and go into the room, write out her behavior referral, and call home. Dad tells me it must be something I did, because she doesn't act this way at home.
Man, I feel sorry for this girl. Not because of getting caught, but because her parents are flat out enabling this behavior. I bet this Dad feels so bad he goes out and buys darling daughter a big bag of Skittles and bemoans her state and belittles Gilda all at the same time.

My wife teaches High School. She sees these kids all of the time. There are parents that teach their children that the teacher is an authority figure there to teach. Then, there are parents who teach their children that teachers are mean or wrong and instill no sense of respect in them whatsoever.

This continues into High School. Some students pay attention to and respect their teachers. Others are rude, disruptive, and will not do work. The parents of the former will act on a parent teacher call or conference post haste and apologize for their children's embarassing behavior. The parents of the latter will make excuses for their children in a parent teacher call, or even more telling, will say, "My child says you do not like him (or her) and that s/he is ignored by you. And why didn't I know they were failing? You should have let us know. You need to do your job! I am calling the Principal!"

Keep in mind parents have to sign a progress report in the middle of each 6 week term. Also keep in mind any child in an extracuricular activiy has to have a weekly report signed by each teacher in each subject. Keep in mind, kids lie like anything to avoid getting into trouble (not my angel!) :rolleyes:

Good job, Gilda. I can only hope that this early intervention will wake up the students, even if their enabling, holier than thou, jackass parents are too candyass to do something about behavior obviously wrong as theft.

[Gilda Dent]

Did you hear:

"But I[/b} didn't steal any! Why am [b]I being punished?"

An awful lot?

Not in those words, but yeah, the loudest protestors being those most frequently in trouble. There are those who see a reward as a reward, and they accepted it just fine, and there are those who see not getting a reward as a punishment, and they protested.

Those protesting were the ones who earned the smallest number of rewards in the first place. There are just some kids who would rather complain about everything than do what is expected of them, learn what they need to know, get good grades, and earn rewards both tangible and intangible.

Gilda

[Typo Lad]

And it is your job, as a teacher of young children, to teach them that laziness and whining are simply not rewarded in this society..

That's not sarcasm. That's how I feel.

Clearly the Principal does not.

[Gilda Dent]

If suspect boy is whiney boy than man it's scary how much he's like me. He acts like me (Or so people say) and he stole candy which is what I did in the 1st grade. Creepy.

They are one and the same.

I taught middle school for two years. I've met several boys who acted this way at eleven and twelve, and one or two girls. It's more common among the boys in the higher grades, but about even in K-2.

Gilda

[Paul Newell]

In the meantime, I feel like a TV detective. I caught one thief, and in a matter of minutes she rolled on her partner like Beethoven.

I even got that TV timing, where I was standing outside the classroom watching her at the moment she was stealing from me.

Gilda "Nancy Drew" Dent
But, more importantly, what were you wearing?

[K'Nort]

And it is your job, as a teacher of young children, to teach them that laziness and whining are simply not rewarded in this society..

That's not sarcasm. That's how I feel.

Clearly the Principal does not.

That's an area that can get really really confusing for kids. Because the mixed messages from family, friends' families, teachers, society, etc range all over the place.

There are plenty of basically good kids who have also figured out that it doesn't hurt to at least try to whine. And if it doesn't work, they shrug and go about their business. But sometimes it does work, so it's worth a shot. Like asking Mom for an extension the first time she says it's bedtime.

Heck, I just finished grad school. Most of my fellow students were in their 40s and 50s. Almost every time we got a deadline for a paper over the last two years, people would whine a bit and the instructor would extend it. Or knock a bit off the length.

[Typo Lad]

Better they be confused by people who expect proper behavior than have rude behavior tolerated. The fact that your prof gave in to wining sickens me.

That's not hyperbole.

If an authority figure tells someone no, discussion is always an option. Whining is not.

[Shellhead]

Candy as a reward has been suspended for a week, In the two weeks left after that, it will be locked in my desk drawer and tokens given in its place, with an occasional set time to exchange tokens for a piece of candy. In the meantime, they can only exchange tokens for privileges.

During role-playing and the discussion on responsibility this afternoon, I did explain exactly why there are new restrictions on the candy without giving out any names, but this is a school. Everyone knows or will know by tomorrow anyway. Heck, half the students knew Suspect Boy was stealing from me and handing it out, but didn't say anything because, hey, free candy. They're at a stage of moral development where somebody else stealing and giving it to them is just enough cover that they don't see taking it as wrong.

I doubt that I've converted them to being people who will now stand fast in the face of temptation, but hopefully I've at least planted the seed.

Gilda

I really like the token idea. I assume that you will lock up the tokens, too. Unless maybe you want to see if somebody will steal those, too. Alternatively, you could leave the tokens out, but keep a handwritten record of who you award tokens to and when. When you finally allow tokens to be exhanged for candy, you can check your ledger to see who is exchanging more tokens than you awarded them.

[Gilda Dent]

I really like the token idea. I assume that you will lock up the tokens, too. Unless maybe you want to see if somebody will steal those, too. Alternatively, you could leave the tokens out, but keep a handwritten record of who you award tokens to and when. When you finally allow tokens to be exhanged for candy, you can check your ledger to see who is exchanging more tokens than you awarded them.

The tokens are little slips of paper with a picture on it that I print on my printer. The students sign the back immediately upon recieving the token to ensure that it can't be stolen, and they can't be transferred, and stealing would be useless.

I cut up enough each week for the following day and carry them in a pocket usually.

Keeping a ledger would be waaayyy too much work. This is supposed to be a quick, efficient reward for students. I don't want to put more energy into management than actual teaching.

Gilda

[Valmore]

Gilda, I'd like for you to think about your part of the problem - for being a nice teacher who tries to do sweet things for her students. Clearly this is unacceptable, and you must now engage in corporal punishment. I hear Singapore has a nice website where you can import canes that are clearly NOT of the candy variety.

[Michael P]

Dad tells me it must be something I did, because she doesn't act this way at home.

God save us from parents like this.

Mr. VP talked to me after school today, and told me I need to think about my part of the problem. Leaving the candy where the students are able to reach it makes it, in his words, an "attractive nuisance", where an impulsive student might be tempted to do something he might not otherwise be tempted to do.

He's referred to the toys on and behind my desk as an "attractive nuisance" also. By this standard, stores are an "attractive nuisance", as are the entire contents of every home the children might visit.

God save us from vice principals like this.

[Gilda Dent]

But, more importantly, what were you wearing?

Blue calf-length skirt, white sleeveless blouse with blue pin stripes, black mary jane flats.

One of the guys commented that he thought I looked about 15. That's a bit young for Nancy, I think.

Gilda

[Michael P]

Actually, make that "God save us from vice principals," because I never knew a VP who wasn't like that.

I swear, they grow them in vats.

[Michael P]

Blue calf-length skirt, white sleeveless blouse with blue pin stripes, black mary jane flats.

One of the guys commented that he thought I looked about 15. That's a bit young for Nancy, I think.

Gilda
I always assumed she was 17, the same age as Joe Hardy. Of course, that's based on the teamup novels from the early '90s, which were based on the Casefiles continuity, so that might not have any bearing on the "real" Nancy's age.

Dear God, I am a nerd.

[Sir Tim Drake]

During role-playing and the discussion on responsibility this afternoon, I did explain exactly why there are new restrictions on the candy without giving out any names, but this is a school. Everyone knows or will know by tomorrow anyway. Heck, half the students knew Suspect Boy was stealing from me and handing it out, but didn't say anything because, hey, free candy. They're at a stage of moral development where somebody else stealing and giving it to them is just enough cover that they don't see taking it as wrong.

So they have about the same level of morality as the man in this picture:

http://bib18.ulb.ac.be/Haa_Methodologie_I/image/868449942004_4431119420044_023_adam_eve.JPG

[Wesley Dodds]

Blue calf-length skirt, white sleeveless blouse with blue pin stripes, black mary jane flats.

See? The right outfit really can solve any problem.

[Paul Newell]

Blue calf-length skirt, white sleeveless blouse with blue pin stripes, black mary jane flats.

One of the guys commented that he thought I looked about 15. That's a bit young for Nancy, I think.

Gilda

http://www.the-forum.com/books/images/drew.jpg http://www.kidsbooksandpuppets.com/images/audiobooks/nancydrewhiddenstaircaseaudiobooks2.jpg http://newsline.umd.edu/photos/nancydrewposter090705.gif http://newportvintagebooks.com/store/video/mystery/images/Nancy_Drew_Reporter.jpg

[Gilda Dent]

http://www.the-forum.com/books/images/drew.jpg http://www.kidsbooksandpuppets.com/images/audiobooks/nancydrewhiddenstaircaseaudiobooks2.jpg

Hee hee. Those really aren't far off. I was wearing white socks, though.

Gilda

[Paul Newell]

See? The right outfit really can solve any problem.
Too true...

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e383/paulnewell/CBR/dodds.jpg

[Wesley Dodds]

The sad part is that now I'm tempted to hunt op shops for a speckled neckerchief.

"Look at me, I'm Mister Six!"

[Magneto_X]

He's probably thinking of the last season of Buffy more than Harriet the Spy.

Yes, that is correct.

[Magneto_X]

First, and most importantly, I feel I must address this:

The movie version of Harriet the Spy is one of the worst adaptations of a children's book in history. It's the anti-Matilda. The book is very good, especially for girls of a certain age.

~

Ok, onto the investigation.

Two candy thieves caught today.

We're out at recess. A girl who is a willful, stubborn, and manipulative child has been having a particularly difficult time lately. She skipped her bathroom break on the way back from lunch, then ten minutes later at recess asks if she can go use the restroom. I don't believe her for a second, but she is one of the suspects for the during the day thefts, so I send her in. She watches me, checking twice to see if I'm following to check her going down the hall. I wasn't. As she disappears inside the building, I cruise over to the outside of the wing and up to my classroom, where I routinely leave the shades open to give us natural light. I figure that if she ran, and it's likely she did, she'll have had about a 30-40 second head start on me, time enough to go in the room so I can catch her there.

I get to the window, and scan the room, finding it empty. At second glance, however, I see a white shirt bent over behind my desk. She stands up and turns to go, her hand holding four packages of Smarties. She actually had the gall to smile at me. I motioned for her to go outside, and walk over to the door to meet her. Her hands are empty, and she says she put the candy back, and is now angry with me.

I tell her I'm very disappointed that she lied to me and was stealing. She gets indignant. She did, she says, go to the bathroom and did get a drink, then on the way back went into the room to get her toy (a toy cell phone I'd confiscated a few days before). No mention of the candy. She gets rude and defiant, attempts to blame me for her behavior, and begins reflecting my statements back at me in a mocking, sarcastic tone. Remember, this is a seven-year-old, not a teen. She was like this at six and seven.

The discussion going nowhere, I tell her we need to go in so we can call home and tell her parents what she did, and she refuses, telling me she's not getting up. I'm not picking her up to carry her in, in part because I doubt I have the strength to do that, but mostly because that's not my job. I ask another teacher to watch my students, and go into the room, write out her behavior referral, and call home. Dad tells me it must be something I did, because she doesn't act this way at home.

I go out and tell her to come in so I can read the referral to her before sending her up to the office. I start reading it, and she blurts out, "Suspect Boy's been doing it too!"

Ah, six-year-olds, experts at the two wrongs make a right defense. If caught, turn someone else in immediately.

I ask her if she's seen him do this. "No, but he was handing out suckers at the bus stop last week, and he said he got them after school." She went on to say he'd done this several times.

"You be sure to tell Mr. VP about that when you talk to him," I tell her, and I make note of this on a sticky note, which I attach to the behavioral referral. I send her up to the office, make a copy of each, the drop it off.

Suspect Boy is called up to the office a few minutes after recess ends. I called home to report what had happened, and Grandma told me that Suspect Boy had told her I gave him the suckers. Ah.

Mr. VP talked to me after school today, and told me I need to think about my part of the problem. Leaving the candy where the students are able to reach it makes it, in his words, an "attractive nuisance", where an impulsive student might be tempted to do something he might not otherwise be tempted to do.

He's referred to the toys on and behind my desk as an "attractive nuisance" also. By this standard, stores are an "attractive nuisance", as are the entire contents of every home the children might visit.

My take on it is that students need to be taught that just because they can do something like take another's property without permission doesn't mean they should.

The candy is kept behind my desk, where students are not permitted to be at any time without express permission from me. At no time are students within reach unless they are there for the purpose of stealing it or doing something else they're not allowed to do.

I'll know the exact disposition tomorrow.

In the meantime, I feel like a TV detective. I caught one thief, and in a matter of minutes she rolled on her partner like Beethoven.

I even got that TV timing, where I was standing outside the classroom watching her at the moment she was stealing from me.

I don't know whether to be disappointed or proud of myself.

I did use it as an opportunity to discuss respecting property, review the rules, and do some role playing.

Gilda "Nancy Drew" Dent


Well done, Gilda! I'm glad you finally caught the candy thieves.

[Kid Omega]

I hope you beat the holy living fucking shit out of those dirty little thieving pieces of shit.

[OzBat!]

Hold on a moment, and tell us how you REALLY feel!

[Kid Omega]

Hold on a moment, and tell us how you REALLY feel!

Almost ten pages of candy-stealing drama.... after that, those motherfuckers had better PAY.

Otherwise, it's just a big waste of time.

[Wesley Dodds]

I think being busted by someone dressed as Nancy Drew is punishment enough.

That's almost as bad as being caught by Encyclopedia Brown.

[Valmore]

That's almost as bad as being caught by Encyclopedia Brown.

You DARE to mock the greatest detective America, nay, the WORLD, has ever known?!? Without Encyclopedia Brown, Bugs Meaney would surely have taken over Indiana by now!

[Spike-X]

There are just some kids who would rather complain about everything than do what is expected of them, learn what they need to know, get good grades, and earn rewards both tangible and intangible.


The sad thing is, some of these kids never grow out of that.

[howyadoin]

The sad thing is, some of these kids never grow out of that.I wish I hadn't. I'd have a lot more money now.