How would you clean up the MU

[the Hornet]

I am not saying that MU is too messed up and needs to be revamped.....but going forward if Marvel ever did something like the Inifnite Crisis for, how would you like it.

For me, I would change everything. I will have one last major battle with everyone involved. X-Men and mutants will be accepted as heroes for their contribuition. All heroes retire, lose powers or something. Then a month or two with no superheroes or comics.

Finally, one by one a few of the old heroes reemerge...Cap, Spidey, THOR, Hulk, Iron Man, Susan Storm and Jean Grey/Phoenix. They form a new team, not the Avengers but a brand new team that will become the new "all-star" team.

Slowly, other heroes will come up, brand new ones. Like how the silver age gave us Spidey and Hulk.

If anyone has any ideas to share.....would be cool to hear them.

[fireball87o]

I wouldn't like so many old storylines & characters to be thrown away. So much stuff has happened in the comics, thoroughout all sorts of different series from the X-titles to Spiderman to others like Cloak & Dagger, that is never mentioned again.

This doesn't allow for too much vested interest

[MythicBrawn]

I always thought that Marvel needed to trim the mutant herd. So, I give that to them. The one thing that always grated on me about their universe is the treatment of mutants. It seems that everybody hates them. As long as mutants have been running around people would develop a tolerance for them to the point where mutants would be a non-issue. Mutant hysteria is always at a fever pitch in the MU. History has proven that nothing stays at the top forever. Nuclear war was a big thing during the 80s. Now, no one gives it a second thought. AIDS had its moment and now has levelled out as an issue. And, there are numerous other examples.

Evolving the MU past the mutant hysteria thing would take some creativity. It would be similar to evolving some of their characters. Rogue is a great example. She's been around for over two decades and she STILL hasn't gotten past the problems with her powers. And, it's been demonstrated that she could. Skids had a similar problem and she got past it. Marvel can't seem to let the angst go.

So, I would clean up the MU by evolving their many characters. The one person who is the most interesting is the Hulk. The adage is true with him, "Where the only thing constant is change." If only the X-Men could say the same thing.

[fireball87o]

I always thought that Marvel needed to trim the mutant herd. So, I give that to them. The one thing that always grated on me about their universe is the treatment of mutants. It seems that everybody hates them. As long as mutants have been running around people would develop a tolerance for them to the point where mutants would be a non-issue. Mutant hysteria is always at a fever pitch in the MU. History has proven that nothing stays at the top forever. Nuclear war was a big thing during the 80s. Now, no one gives it a second thought. AIDS had its moment and now has levelled out as an issue. And, there are numerous other examples.

Evolving the MU past the mutant hysteria thing would take some creativity. It would be similar to evolving some of their characters. Rogue is a great example. She's been around for over two decades and she STILL hasn't gotten past the problems with her powers. And, it's been demonstrated that she could. Skids had a similar problem and she got past it. Marvel can't seem to let the angst go.

So, I would clean up the MU by evolving their many characters. The one person who is the most interesting is the Hulk. The adage is true with him, "Where the only thing constant is change." If only the X-Men could say the same thing.

amen to that brother! Rogue & Iceman need to evolve

[Cactusakic]

I always thought that Marvel needed to trim the mutant herd. So, I give that to them. The one thing that always grated on me about their universe is the treatment of mutants. It seems that everybody hates them. As long as mutants have been running around people would develop a tolerance for them to the point where mutants would be a non-issue. Mutant hysteria is always at a fever pitch in the MU. History has proven that nothing stays at the top forever. Nuclear war was a big thing during the 80s. Now, no one gives it a second thought. AIDS had its moment and now has levelled out as an issue. And, there are numerous other examples.

Evolving the MU past the mutant hysteria thing would take some creativity. It would be similar to evolving some of their characters. Rogue is a great example. She's been around for over two decades and she STILL hasn't gotten past the problems with her powers. And, it's been demonstrated that she could. Skids had a similar problem and she got past it. Marvel can't seem to let the angst go.

So, I would clean up the MU by evolving their many characters. The one person who is the most interesting is the Hulk. The adage is true with him, "Where the only thing constant is change." If only the X-Men could say the same thing.

Wow. I hadn't realized it before reading this post but this is EXACTLY what is needed in the MU. What a perfect summary.

Evolution baby!!!

[nervmeister]

I always thought that Marvel needed to trim the mutant herd. So, I give that to them. The one thing that always grated on me about their universe is the treatment of mutants. It seems that everybody hates them. As long as mutants have been running around people would develop a tolerance for them to the point where mutants would be a non-issue. Mutant hysteria is always at a fever pitch in the MU. History has proven that nothing stays at the top forever. Nuclear war was a big thing during the 80s. Now, no one gives it a second thought. AIDS had its moment and now has levelled out as an issue. And, there are numerous other examples.

Evolving the MU past the mutant hysteria thing would take some creativity. It would be similar to evolving some of their characters. Rogue is a great example. She's been around for over two decades and she STILL hasn't gotten past the problems with her powers. And, it's been demonstrated that she could. Skids had a similar problem and she got past it. Marvel can't seem to let the angst go.

So, I would clean up the MU by evolving their many characters. The one person who is the most interesting is the Hulk. The adage is true with him, "Where the only thing constant is change." If only the X-Men could say the same thing.
I'm with you 100%. I mean how many times do the X-men have to save the world in order for people to at least give mutants a chance. Apparently the number is indefinite. Meanwhile, people have praised other heroes like the FF and the Avengers (well, at least until the Civil War). Sure, its great if you attained your powers through outside means, but if you're born with powers, that's a big no-no.

[fireball87o]

Meanwhile, people have praised other heroes like the FF and the Avengers (well, at least until the Civil War). Sure, its great if you attained your powers through outside means, but if you're born with powers, that's a big no-no.
That's what I never really got about the MU. Superpowered Avengers are praised, while X-Men are feared

[The Shadow]

but going forward if Marvel ever did something like the Inifnite Crisis
That's not a step forward for DC... that's living in the past. Just ANOTHER mega-Crisis event to fix problems.

I wouldn't do a thing if I were Marvel.... just tell good stories.

[Nonentity]

That's not a step forward for DC... that's living in the past. Just ANOTHER mega-Crisis event to fix problems.

I wouldn't do a thing if I were Marvel.... just tell good stories.

I agree, but for slightly different reasons.

While I enjoyed Infinite Crisis as a good story, the kind of continuity-mucking it represents is something that Marvel has somehow managed to avoid thus far and hopefully will continue to. One of the things I enjoy about Marvel compared to DC is that the continuity is still relatively easy to understand.

For all we may gripe about whether or not a writer remembers the time character X was put in the hospital by character Y, or something like that, Marvel continuity is relatively stable. The Avengers have always been founded by Thor, Giant-Man, Wasp, Hulk and Iron Man and no one has ever attempted to replace one of them with, say, Jean Grey and then tell the readers that every subsequent Avengers story really featured Jean Grey instead of X original character. See what I mean?

About as far as things should go is something like House of M, where we have an event that can alter reality (no more mutants), but not the continuity behind that reality (like saying there was never more than a couple hundred mutants worldwide).

[fireball87o]

I agree, but for slightly different reasons.

While I enjoyed Infinite Crisis as a good story, the kind of continuity-mucking it represents is something that Marvel has somehow managed to avoid thus far and hopefully will continue to. One of the things I enjoy about Marvel compared to DC is that the continuity is still relatively easy to understand.

For all we may gripe about whether or not a writer remembers the time character X was put in the hospital by character Y, or something like that, Marvel continuity is relatively stable. The Avengers have always been founded by Thor, Giant-Man, Wasp, Hulk and Iron Man and no one has ever attempted to replace one of them with, say, Jean Grey and then tell the readers that every subsequent Avengers really featured Jean Grey instead of X original character. See what I mean?

About as far as things should go is something like House of M, where we have an event that can alter reality (no more mutants), but not the continuity behind that reality (like saying there was never more than a couple hundred mutants worldwide).

I agree the Infinate Crisis is screwy. If I was a DC fan i'd be pissed & feel ripped off for all those years of buying issues that the company then decided to completly ignore & ERASE from continuity! WTF DC?

[lordlad]

i will make scarlet witch say the following words:

'No more Wolverine'...

[algertman]

No More Mutants

but this time actually mean it

[Coolrush]

I'd just make being a mutant a extremely rare occurance like it used to be before it exploded in Morrison's run and leave it like that.

[Haunt]

i'd make mutation a rare and violent occurrence. 1 out of 5 mutants would die upon the first flare up of their powers. it would make mutation somewhat scary (imagine sitting next to a kid on a bus & he spontaneously combusts) and those that survive would be that much more special.

then i'd take away the connection to the Shiar empire. they'd have no access to their tech; just stuff that they've stolen from the military or that Forge built.

then i'd take away their costumes. at most, 6 or 7 of them would be able to afford their own specialized costume. these lucky few would be the x-men. the rest would be students or school staff who dress in street clothes.

and, yes, they'd all be huddled together in that mansion but they wouldn't be living like the Avengers or anything. there'd be no butler and Xavier's home would be crowded and understaffed (relying sometimes on humans sympathetic to the cause).

mutants would be less "out there" in general; more covert like the Inhumans. Xavier would still be the foremost expert on mutation but would keep his own status as a mutant secret, so that the government would cooperate with him.
-----------

that was for the mutantverse. i'd also clean up the Avengers; making it much more exlusive. every member would have training equivalent to that of a SHIELD agent (like with the superhuman registration act). this would give legitimacy to guys like Hawkeye who are actually able to retain their membership. but a lot of the roster would be paired down. there wouldn't be any honorary members. people like Deathcry, Silverclaw, Dr Druid, etc would have no place in it. maybe they tried out but failed out during the probationary period. the rest of the marvel universe (street-level heroes)would see them as a big govt-funded country club of heroes.

that brings me to my other bit of cleaning. i like the idea that the original roster was an unstable one. you had a young control-freak futurist corporate type, a deity from a viking culture, Mr Hyde x 10, and then a couple of bugs. it's the bugs who need reworking imo. i want all of the founders to be on equal footing.

Pym, if i had my way, would have been less scientist and more super-sleuth/spook. he'd be a young fox mulder type who (while in college) gets recruited Marvel's version of the Men in Black (for lack of a better analogy). we're talking Tales to Astonish days. Pym would be trained like any other intelligence operative but be sent on missions of a bizzare nature (ex. investigating an alliance between the Skrulls & the commies).

so young Pym's eagerness & versatility as an industrial chemist, biologist, & mechanist would lead him to quickly grow into one of their best secret agents; MacGyver-esque. he'd soon be paired up with a partner; Maria. he'd fall for her but she'd turn out to be a double agent. she'd end up being murdered by her handlers. this would send Pym into a state of deep despair, followed by temporary insanity. it's during this time that he would stumble upon the Kosmos dimension. more importantly, this would be when he discovers the other properties (size-alteration) of this dimension's particles.

with only his ability to miniaturize himself, Pym would travel Europe (batman begins style) looking for more information on Maria's death. with his training, he'd soon find a lead on her murderers. but he would fail at avenging himself and be thrown into the most backwards prison imaginable. it's here, despondent, that he would begin to study insect life (it's a very unsanitary prison). & he would trick/bribe the guards into giving him the equipment he would need to build what they think is a radio. it would really be the prototype for his cybernetic Ant-Man helmet. he'd use this to make his escape.

When next he emerges, a month later, Pym would be in the rough draft of his Ant-Man guise. but he'd be more of an urban legend at this point; a ruthless self-employed spy/vigilante looking for information on Maria's superiors. he would use this new identity to get revenge. then he would leave it all behind, move back to the states, and take up teaching at a college (the agency he worked for was dismantled during his absence). Janet Van Dyne would be a student in one of his classes. her dad would be the senior member of the science department & a friend of Pym's despite the age gap. the elder Van Dyne would be killed in a dimensional physics experiment. Hank would help his daughter channel her anger over the incident into a new career as a costumed vigilante/his partner. Jan would eventually come to lead the Avengers. Hank would mostly operate solo, as his mental health slips. he'd be sort of a mix of Jack Bauer & Rorschach but with a little sci fi mixed in. he'd still lend the Avengers a hand when needed but be on the outs w/ the other founders because of an incident where Egghead framed him & no one had his back.

P.S. in my clean version, Ultron actually sees himself as the real Hank Pym (as opposed to thinking of Hank as his father). Pym spends a lot of time chasing him all over the world; vice versa.

[Alan2099]

Haunt, before reading your post, I thought the Ultimate line was about as bad as anybody could mess up Marvel.

I was wrong, I guess.

If Marvel did that stuff, I'd drop all the books like they were on fire.

[protege]

I am not saying that MU is too messed up and needs to be revamped.....but going forward if Marvel ever did something like the Inifnite Crisis for, how would you like it.

For me, I would change everything. I will have one last major battle with everyone involved. X-Men and mutants will be accepted as heroes for their contribuition. All heroes retire, lose powers or something. Then a month or two with no superheroes or comics.

Finally, one by one a few of the old heroes reemerge...Cap, Spidey, THOR, Hulk, Iron Man, Susan Storm and Jean Grey/Phoenix. They form a new team, not the Avengers but a brand new team that will become the new "all-star" team.

Slowly, other heroes will come up, brand new ones. Like how the silver age gave us Spidey and Hulk.

If anyone has any ideas to share.....would be cool to hear them.
Who would you have for those one or two months where the heroes weren't around?

[protege]

I always thought that Marvel needed to trim the mutant herd. So, I give that to them. The one thing that always grated on me about their universe is the treatment of mutants. It seems that everybody hates them. As long as mutants have been running around people would develop a tolerance for them to the point where mutants would be a non-issue. Mutant hysteria is always at a fever pitch in the MU. History has proven that nothing stays at the top forever. Nuclear war was a big thing during the 80s. Now, no one gives it a second thought. AIDS had its moment and now has levelled out as an issue. And, there are numerous other examples.

Evolving the MU past the mutant hysteria thing would take some creativity. It would be similar to evolving some of their characters. Rogue is a great example. She's been around for over two decades and she STILL hasn't gotten past the problems with her powers. And, it's been demonstrated that she could. Skids had a similar problem and she got past it. Marvel can't seem to let the angst go.

So, I would clean up the MU by evolving their many characters. The one person who is the most interesting is the Hulk. The adage is true with him, "Where the only thing constant is change." If only the X-Men could say the same thing.
Marvel's philosophy has always been, "Angst makes for good stories." i don't mind a little, but when they dogpile it on people like spider man and Daredevil, i say enough is enough. If it's supposed to make you feel that your life isn't so bad by comparison, well okay- but what if your life isn't that bad to start with/ Who wants to read about someone whose life is WORSE than yours?

[Haunt]

Haunt, before reading your post, I thought the Ultimate line was about as bad as anybody could mess up Marvel.

I was wrong, I guess.

If Marvel did that stuff, I'd drop all the books like they were on fire.


that's understandable; seeing as how you're a fanof 2099.

[mandog]

I always thought that Marvel needed to trim the mutant herd. So, I give that to them. The one thing that always grated on me about their universe is the treatment of mutants. It seems that everybody hates them. As long as mutants have been running around people would develop a tolerance for them to the point where mutants would be a non-issue. Mutant hysteria is always at a fever pitch in the MU. History has proven that nothing stays at the top forever. Nuclear war was a big thing during the 80s. Now, no one gives it a second thought. AIDS had its moment and now has levelled out as an issue. And, there are numerous other examples.

I really disagree that Mutants would be a non issue. Think about the race issue we face in the real world. There were problems with it from the start for us. So lets just say for our country alone problems started in 1776 when the country started(and we all know there were problems waaaaay before that). So 1776 problems. The Civil War goes down in the 1860's thats almost 100 years later. But, there are still massive race issues all the way up to and past the civil rights movement in the 1960s. And you cant tell me there arent race issues today it wasnt that long ago there were riots in LA over it for example. So The black/ white issue has gone on for over 200 years in this country. So lets say just for arguements sake that in the Marvel universe Mutant issues start popping up around 1900. that means if the Mutant issue is as big as the Black/ White issue then it still has over 100 more years of major problems. Plus lets be honest. The mutant issue would be one that was much worse than the Black/ White issue. with race issues its just some dumb ass hating someone because they are different looking. With the mutant issue, people really would feel like they were the next step in evolution. So you would have people feeling really threatened by the idea that mutants were trying to replace the average joe. You would have the religious people that would take mutants as an attack on thier faith because it would support evolution. You would have a dude like Magneto leveling cities and such. The Mutant issue would be MUCH bigger than the Black/ White issue so it would still be going strong in the Marvel U. Plus if time healed all wounds The middle east would be a happy place of oil and rainbows. Thats a really long rant I know. But, surely you have to agree the mutant issue should still be going on strong in the MU

[im399unot]

I'd just make being a mutant a extremely rare occurance like it used to be before it exploded in Morrison's run and leave it like that.


Right Freaking on brother!

[Alan2099]

that's understandable; seeing as how you're a fanof 2099.
And that means, what excatly?

And for the record, I'm actually not. I just liked a few of the character designs and ideas. I think I've read maybe a dozen issues of the 2099 stuff max. Plus I feel the name has a nice vibe to it.

[Haunt]

And that means, what excatly?

ohh, nothing

And for the record, I'm actually not. I just liked a few of the character designs and ideas. I think I've read maybe a dozen issues of the 2099 stuff max. Plus I feel the name has a nice vibe to it.

do you?

[Citizen V]

Marvel needs to do something so simple it is summed up in 3 words.

Recon

Bendis`s

Writing.

[jade_nova]

They need some sort of storyline that removes the characters created in the Sixties and let more current characters shine.

[Kevinroc]

Marvel needs to do something so simple it is summed up in 3 words.

Recon

Bendis`s

Writing.

Recon Bendis' writing?

Why does Marvel need to recon Bendis' writing? It's kind of late to preform reconnaissance on quite a bit of his work. Besides, Marvel "reconned" Bendis' writing when they were still just in script form.

[StoneGold]

Recon Bendis' writing?

Why does Marvel need to recon Bendis' writing? It's kind of late to preform reconnaissance on quite a bit of his work. Besides, Marvel "reconned" Bendis' writing when they were still just in script form.
It's always best to do some recon. Intelligence wins wars.

[Expletive Deleted]

Knowing is half the battle, after all.

[Kevinroc]

Knowing is half the battle, after all.

It's too bad Marvel doesn't have the GI Joe license anymore.

[DDM]

I'd use my Vaccuum Continuity Cleaner.

[Kevinroc]

I'd use my Vaccuum Continuity Cleaner.

If I had that, I wouldn't bother using it on comic continuity. I'd fix up my own continuity. Retcon things I don't like in my own past.

"I didn't wanna be in that fight when I was in 5th grade. And now I wasn't."

[DoubleShot]

i'd make mutation a rare and violent occurrence. 1 out of 5 mutants would die upon the first flare up of their powers. it would make mutation somewhat scary (imagine sitting next to a kid on a bus & he spontaneously combusts) and those that survive would be that much more special.

then i'd take away the connection to the Shiar empire. they'd have no access to their tech; just stuff that they've stolen from the military or that Forge built.

then i'd take away their costumes. at most, 6 or 7 of them would be able to afford their own specialized costume. these lucky few would be the x-men. the rest would be students or school staff who dress in street clothes.

and, yes, they'd all be huddled together in that mansion but they wouldn't be living like the Avengers or anything. there'd be no butler and Xavier's home would be crowded and understaffed (relying sometimes on humans sympathetic to the cause).

mutants would be less "out there" in general; more covert like the Inhumans. Xavier would still be the foremost expert on mutation but would keep his own status as a mutant secret, so that the government would cooperate with him.

So your basically wanting a book like the old New Universe DP7 when they lived in the hospital?

[the Hornet]

Who would you have for those one or two months where the heroes weren't around?

The Adventures of Aunt May Parker and Jarvis.

:)

Seriously, maybe some sort of "World without Heroes" thing.

[Ogrebear]

Been trying to find out some idea of whats been going on in the M.U. and when it happened. I have seen various Timelines for the M.U. but all of them end with the events of Fantastic Four #1 (where Marvel Time starts)- some of the timelines use the orginal publishing date, others use 'X years before FF#1' to describe dates.

What I am looking for however is a timeline of the events in the M.U. POST the FF flight- in detail and a up to date as possible; preferably with sources/date published/title etc, not just a summery of events. Does anyone know of such a timeline out there?

Once we have an idea of when stuff is supposted to happen then I think we can cut stuff out!

[Sharkerbob]

Hmmm...

I agree weeding out the mutants is a good idea. I mean, they've weeded out so many already, and there's still a bunch left over.

I'd cut the whole "school" aspect out of the X-Men. It was fine for the movies, but it just sorta bogged down the main comic for me. I never liked them as teachers and dorm supervisors. I'm glad Whedons tried to get them back into the superhero mold again.

I'd re-instate the global X-teams idea, maybe have an "anthology series" featuring the various groups around the world while the main X-men title focuses on the core group.

Avengers need to ditch Spider-Man and Wolverine. They just don't fit.

[darkhawk76]

keep Green Goblin dead

regress Beast's second stage mutation

acknowledge there were some hero in MU post Cap disappearance and pre FF appearance (ie mention First Line a bit more)

dump Sentry

make creators acknowledge that if something major happens in comic, it does affect another. If Magneto/Xorn/Sentinels blow up New York, there should be some sort of mention in Spider-Man, FF et al

clean up a few Cold War era origins of characters

[The Shadow]

keep Green Goblin dead
Agreed... I HATE that they brought him back.

regress Beast's second stage mutation
Disagreed. I like the new look.

acknowledge there were some hero in MU post Cap disappearance and pre FF appearance (ie mention First Line a bit more)
TOTALLY agree!!

dump Sentry
Disagree. He's one of the more interesting characters to come down the line in a while.

make creators acknowledge that if something major happens in comic, it does affect another. If Magneto/Xorn/Sentinels blow up New York, there should be some sort of mention in Spider-Man, FF et al
Agree!

clean up a few Cold War era origins of characters Agree as well.

I like some of your ideas! We need Roy Thomas writing again to help clean some messes up!

[Dave Cote]

Roy Thomas is still alive?!

[The Shadow]

Roy Thomas is still alive?!
Yep.

He did a new story in Giant Size Invaders recently.

[darkhawk76]

Disagree. He's one of the more interesting characters to come down the line in a while.


my gripes with Sentry are twofold:

the retcon nature of his existance and the fact it's yet another Marvel variation on Superman's power

plus I prefer Beast old look because he looks like a cat now

I like your idea about Roy Thomas, I'd add Roger Stern, Walt & Louise Simonson and maybe John Byrne (*ducks*)

of all the things I listed, the continuity and Green Goblin mean most to me

[Dr. Killtrocity]

Get a court reporter.

[Citizen V]

Recon Bendis' writing?

Why does Marvel need to recon Bendis' writing? It's kind of late to preform reconnaissance on quite a bit of his work. Besides, Marvel "reconned" Bendis' writing when they were still just in script form.

If Bendis`s writing was reconned why are the effects of HoM still around?Instead of a useless civil war to catch up with DC,Marvel should do another event to clean up the mess that he did,and other writing that the fans did not like ther.

[Haunt]

So your basically wanting a book like the old New Universe DP7 when they lived in the hospital?

yeah but with better characters and it'd be a mansion.

[Kevinroc]

If Bendis`s writing was reconned why are the effects of HoM still around?Instead of a useless civil war to catch up with DC,Marvel should do another event to clean up the mess that he did,and other writing that the fans did not like ther.

So basically, what you want is this scenario:

"Quick, we need a recon mission to understand what Bendis has actually done with our characters. Let's move, move, move!"

:p

[Kevinroc]

my gripes with Sentry are twofold:

the retcon nature of his existance and the fact it's yet another Marvel variation on Superman's power


Beyond having the basic package of superstrength,super speed and flight, The Sentry's powers are quite different from Superman's.

Unless Superman suddenly gained the powers of Photokinesis (the ability to manipulate photons) and Telepathy. Oh, and the whole Void thing.

So where do you draw the line at the retcon? Every character has been retconned at some point. Do you also hate Jessica Jones?

[Messiah Complex]

Lose all secret identities.

---

SATAN SAYS: And kill Hawkeye.

[Alan2099]

Lose all secret identities.

:eek:


Why not loose spandex and super powers while you're at it?

[Jessica Drew]

Some o' Marvel's current books are fantastic, so I wouldn't overhaul too much, just these few items:

1. Distribution - find a way to get comics back at the grocery and convenience stores.

2. Three-year hiatus on multi-title crossovers

3. No more late books.

4. Bring back in-616-continuity horror comics

5. Bring back John Byrne.

6. Bring back Roger Stern.

7. Bring back Michael Golden.

8. Put Dan Slott on a Marvel-monsters-type comic.

9. Let Dan Slott write any other two comics he wants, and keep 'em ongoing, even if it's not financially feasible (the other comics can take up the slack).

10. Bring in Eric Powell to do an ongoing (even if it is only for the artwork).

[Haunt]

Beyond having the basic package of superstrength,super speed and flight, The Sentry's powers are quite different from Superman's.

Unless Superman suddenly gained the powers of Photokinesis (the ability to manipulate photons) and Telepathy. Oh, and the whole Void thing.

So where do you draw the line at the retcon? Every character has been retconned at some point. Do you also hate Jessica Jones?

i hate Jessica Jones. not that anyone asked me. :mad:

:eek:


Why not loose spandex and super powers while you're at it?


so, are you ever going to tell us how you would clean up the MU or just play with "power?'

[drwho]

I would basically keep old continuity. I'd define the titles better and group them like they were done previously.

Avengers family-they would be Marvels JLA
Fantastic Four- I would make them much more cosmic off earthly involved then they have been recently. I'd also have them do more dimension hopping like in exiles.

X-Men Family-They would be more in their own universe less outside interferance from other Marvel heroes. Basically mutants struggling against man kind.

I'd then combine

Daredevil, Punisher, Spiderman, and Ghost Rider into a similar corner of the Marvel U where they would take on theives, robbers, gangsters, drug lords, super villains.

I'd stick the Marvel supernatural characters in same universe, but keep super hero characters away.

I think Marvel just needs to simplify things. Get each family of books back in order.

[Citizen V]

So basically, what you want is this scenario:

"Quick, we need a recon mission to understand what Bendis has actually done with our characters. Let's move, move, move!"

:p

Essentially..yes.The mutants have always been in their own sort of Universe,and they rarely deal with the rest of the Marvel Universe.So unless Bendis has some vendetta against Claremont`s work,HoM was completely useless.

[drwho]

I thought as a story House of M was well done. It set Wolverine and Ms. Marvel into newer directions. Also for awhile Marvel was getting carried away with too many mutants. Perfect example of this was introducing Sunfires sister who had the exact same powers on Sunfire. They definitely needed to ditch some of the mutants. My one complaint is that they did it at the expense of ruinning a character like the Scarlet Witch.

[Kevinroc]

i hate Jessica Jones. not that anyone asked me. :mad:
'

Why do you hate Jessica Jones? Just because she is a "retconned" character?

Essentially..yes.The mutants have always been in their own sort of Universe,and they rarely deal with the rest of the Marvel Universe.So unless Bendis has some vendetta against Claremont`s work,HoM was completely useless.

"RECON IS COMPLETE! WE NEED IMMEDIATE MILITARY ACTION AGAINST WHAT BENDIS HAS DONE! REPEAT! WE NEED IMMEDIATE MILITARY ACTION!" :p

[Haunt]

Why do you hate Jessica Jones? Just because she is a "retconned" character?

no, i just hate nepotism.

[Mariah]

I would basically keep old continuity. I'd define the titles better and group them like they were done previously.

Avengers family-they would be Marvels JLA
Fantastic Four- I would make them much more cosmic off earthly involved then they have been recently. I'd also have them do more dimension hopping like in exiles.

X-Men Family-They would be more in their own universe less outside interferance from other Marvel heroes. Basically mutants struggling against man kind.

I'd then combine

Daredevil, Punisher, Spiderman, and Ghost Rider into a similar corner of the Marvel U where they would take on theives, robbers, gangsters, drug lords, super villains.

I'd stick the Marvel supernatural characters in same universe, but keep super hero characters away.

I think Marvel just needs to simplify things. Get each family of books back in order.
The thing I loved about the old stuff is that it was all one universe, a lot happened in one city, and if something happened, it would affect another title. Now, everyone's like, well, I don't wanna affect this person's story, so, we just ignore what we want, and put in what we do.

[darkhawk76]

Beyond having the basic package of superstrength,super speed and flight, The Sentry's powers are quite different from Superman's.

Unless Superman suddenly gained the powers of Photokinesis (the ability to manipulate photons) and Telepathy. Oh, and the whole Void thing.

So where do you draw the line at the retcon? Every character has been retconned at some point. Do you also hate Jessica Jones?

first things first, I don't believe I said I hate Sentry. Also I said he was variation of Superman (like Hyperion, Gladiator, Count Neferia etc)

none of those character have the same powers and Supes, but surely you'd agree they're variants of DC's number 2 hero (Batman incase you're wondering :))

as for Jessica Jones - I think she's a great character, but I'm not a fan of how Bendis slotted into MU (which I've mentioned elsewhere).

If you take away the 'forgotten hero' aspect of his background, he barely stands up in my eyes (whereas Jessica still works without 'Secret Origins' storyline)

anyway it's just my opinion, nobody has to agree with me

[Ogrebear]

Personally I would like to see stuff in one books story affecting another - not crossovers as such but that when the Avengers' have a fight that destroys Times Square then when Spidey is swinging over Times Square its got re-building work going on; or when Daredevil is taking down a gang the FF fly over ahead on their way somewhere- make the Universe seem like it happens in the same space, same country, same City.

This is esp true of the XMen! They need to be brought closer to the rest of the MU. If they are going to play a 'superhero' role then they need to be out on the streets dealing with traditional superhero issues- not just hanging around the mansion waiting to deal with the latest 'mutant threat' (yes I know ONE is locking them in at the mo, but that wont last forever, I hope)

[MythicBrawn]

I really disagree that Mutants would be a non issue. Think about the race issue we face in the real world. There were problems with it from the start for us. So lets just say for our country alone problems started in 1776 when the country started(and we all know there were problems waaaaay before that). So 1776 problems. The Civil War goes down in the 1860's thats almost 100 years later. But, there are still massive race issues all the way up to and past the civil rights movement in the 1960s. And you cant tell me there arent race issues today it wasnt that long ago there were riots in LA over it for example. So The black/ white issue has gone on for over 200 years in this country. So lets say just for arguements sake that in the Marvel universe Mutant issues start popping up around 1900. that means if the Mutant issue is as big as the Black/ White issue then it still has over 100 more years of major problems. Plus lets be honest. The mutant issue would be one that was much worse than the Black/ White issue. with race issues its just some dumb ass hating someone because they are different looking. With the mutant issue, people really would feel like they were the next step in evolution. So you would have people feeling really threatened by the idea that mutants were trying to replace the average joe. You would have the religious people that would take mutants as an attack on thier faith because it would support evolution. You would have a dude like Magneto leveling cities and such. The Mutant issue would be MUCH bigger than the Black/ White issue so it would still be going strong in the Marvel U. Plus if time healed all wounds The middle east would be a happy place of oil and rainbows. Thats a really long rant I know. But, surely you have to agree the mutant issue should still be going on strong in the MU

Race is still an issue in this country. But, everyone doesn't hate said race. I think if Marvel wants to play up mutants then it should include all super-powered people. There is no way to tell the difference between how someone got their powers. So, why wouldn't the public be terrified of anybody with powers? I can see that certain celebrity heroes would get a pass, just like there are celebrity minorities that get a pass. But, if I fear super-powered people and I don't know that said person is famous, then I'm going to treat that person the same way.

My main point is evolution. Marvel either needs to chill out on the mutant hysteria or push it to the next level. Hysterias occur all the time but they never last. They reach a pinnacle and peter out. The issue is still there but it just isn't as prominent. That's the point I'm making with mutants.

[THANOS/WOLVERINE]

Race is still an issue in this country. But, everyone doesn't hate said race. I think if Marvel wants to play up mutants then it should include all super-powered people. There is no way to tell the difference between how someone got their powers. So, why wouldn't the public be terrified of anybody with powers? I can see that certain celebrity heroes would get a pass, just like there are celebrity minorities that get a pass. But, if I fear super-powered people and I don't know that said person is famous, then I'm going to treat that person the same way.

My main point is evolution. Marvel either needs to chill out on the mutant hysteria or push it to the next level. Hysterias occur all the time but they never last. They reach a pinnacle and peter out. The issue is still there but it just isn't as prominent. That's the point I'm making with mutants.


Well from the public eyes this is the way they see it:

X-men= mutants so anything with an X on is must be mutants
FF gained powers in space
Spider-Man unknown so feared
Cap America= Super Solider from WW2
Iron Man human in robot suit
Hulk- unknown so public fears him
Thor- considered a God

People fear mutants becaus eunlike the other hero's, they could become mutants themselfs. They are the next step in evolution. They will eventually wipe out the human race.

[mandog]

See I think the public likes the super heros that they now how they got thier powers, because they can look at Reed Richards or Cap and think Wow that could happen to me someday. I could have super powers someday. Where with mutants its a case that the average joe knows that is something that they can never be. And, mutants if they are the next step in evolution, are in fact superior to regular ol' humans. People dont like to feel normal or threatened.

[Trouserlord]

I would stop bringing back long dead heroes and or characters..................
that is all

[Strannik]

:eek:


Why not loose spandex and super powers while you're at it?


Just the spandex. Superpowers can stay.

I mean, except for Spider-Man and Daredevil (and maybe Captain America), I think most Marvel superheroes would be better off without spandex.

As for secret identies - I think that Spider-Man is the only major superhero who has any legitimate reason to have a secret identity. I wouldn't shed any tears if everyone else didn't have their civilian IDs revealed.

Of course, since these days, most major heroes were either outed or didn't have secret IDs to begin with, I don't think it would be that much of a loss

Personally I would like to see stuff in one books story affecting another - not crossovers as such but that when the Avengers' have a fight that destroys Times Square then when Spidey is swinging over Times Square its got re-building work going on; or when Daredevil is taking down a gang the FF fly over ahead on their way somewhere- make the Universe seem like it happens in the same space, same country, same City.

This is esp true of the XMen! They need to be brought closer to the rest of the MU. If they are going to play a 'superhero' role then they need to be out on the streets dealing with traditional superhero issues- not just hanging around the mansion waiting to deal with the latest 'mutant threat' (yes I know ONE is locking them in at the mo, but that wont last forever, I hope)

Here here

Maybe not all the time, but every once in a while. It would be kind of cool.

[Phrozen]

First I would whittle down Marvel's book output to 12-14 a month.

Books that will be printed every month: Avengers, Amazing Spider-man, Uncanny X-Men, Fantastic Four, Thor, Captain America, Iron Man, Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD, An anthology book, What If?, Daredevil, Hulk, and 1-2 minis going on at one time.

With in the main character books there will be related back up stories for new writers and artists to hone their skills. For Example, A back up in Avengers would have a solo Hawkeye story or a Ant-Man & Wasp story.

With this whittling down comes a simplification of continuity. This has to be done to keep the universe cohesive and to clean up some messy continuity like the X-Books and such.

[mastaflan]

I would find away to make it so that the mutants are in a whole other reality having nothing to do with the rest of the marvel universe. The Mutants have made it so that the rest of the Marvel universe just doesn't seem special because too many mutants and powers.


However I would have it so that, the only characters that get left behind would be Cable, Gambit, Storm, Psylocke, and Wolverine. Not caus ethere my favorites just cuzz they would make good characters for the rest of the Marvel universe to interact with.


But it doesn't end there....I would have it so that all of the Mutants end up in the squadron supreme reality and have the Squadron Supreme try to wipe out the mutant threat. Magneto and Everyone fighting the squadron supreme in a Marvel MAX situation.

[Faded]

I'll be showing my X-Books fangirl roots here but...

I'd reverse 'No More Mutants'. Well, sort of.

I'd wipe out the numbers, but not really the characters (I hope you can tell where I'm going with this). I agree with Q's current policy of limiting new characters (though there does seem to be a bunch popping up). Repower a lot of the existing ones but not putting the mutants back in the millions, ressurect a bunch except for the 'iconic' deaths to give MU death AND resurrection a hopeful renewed crediblity, etc.

But make it a REALLY good epic ressurection/repowering story. :D

Personally, I don't know how I feel about the X-Men/rest of MU interaction deal. In their each separate groups, they share their personal convulted histories and descriptions. Sometimes crossing paths would just make it worse.

I like the nods/acknowledgements, but I don't know if it's really necessary. Without it, I think I'll still enjoy my X-Books and my MU books just fine as they are.

In my perspective, the mutant universe and the superhuman universe are just in two different worlds with a lot of issues (though Civil War may change this).

That's all. :D

[/incomprehensible half-sleeping post]

[Ogrebear]

Thinking things through I think I would have more mutants not less. Millions of mutants all spread through the world BUT not powered just 'differant' or having minimal level of powers.

Have mutants be a 'race' of Humanity in the same way 'nergo' is a race of Humanity. People like the X-Men would have a legitiamte global role then dealing with Human-Mutant relations not just Human-Supermutant relations.

It also underlines the race relations/civil rights origins of the X-Men too.

[The Shadow]

With this whittling down comes...
...a serious drop in revenue forcing the cover prices to fly sky high.

You also don't give any consideration for cult favorites like Runaways or She-Hulk which are both great books... unless you want to invest in a series of mini's for them... but you only alot 1-2 mini's at any given time. If you relegate them to back up stories you have to either reduce the page count for the main series or add extra pages (usually 8... which is never enough) and raise the price.

You also cancelled Astonishing X-Men... the best selling X book! Why would you cancel your biggest revenue generator from the X line?

And lastly... anthology books rarely ever do well. Marvel Comics Presents did alright because it featured Wolverine in half the book... so unless you do that again (thus over-exposing the character) it'll sell about as well as current anthology bookslike Amazing Fantasy.

[MythicBrawn]

Well from the public eyes this is the way they see it:

X-men= mutants so anything with an X on is must be mutants
FF gained powers in space
Spider-Man unknown so feared
Cap America= Super Solider from WW2
Iron Man human in robot suit
Hulk- unknown so public fears him
Thor- considered a God

People fear mutants becaus eunlike the other hero's, they could become mutants themselfs. They are the next step in evolution. They will eventually wipe out the human race.

They like those people only because they know how they got their powers. But, let a new person with powers be introduced and people immediately think mutant. That especially happens if the person is young. Speedball had to deal with this prejudice. Mutant hysteria is played out. I'm tired of seeing it. I used to buy anything with an X on it. Back then, there were only 2-3 Xbooks with much less Wolverine exposure. Now, the X universe has exploded to a level that's just ridiculous.