long halloween question

[Ullar]

I just reread it and was wondering what happened. Gilda killed the forst three then harvey did the rest but how does alberto fit in? I know he killed maroni but why did he go to the chamber for all the deaths?

[LordEd1976]

I just reread it and was wondering what happened. Gilda killed the forst three then harvey did the rest but how does alberto fit in? I know he killed maroni but why did he go to the chamber for all the deaths?

Gilda did the first three, from October to December. Alberto faked his death on News Years. Alberto then did all the killings until he was caught by Batman and Gordon. Gilda assumes that Harvey was the one who did all the other killings. In this case she got it wrong. The only killings Harvey did were Carmine Falcone and Vernon.

Also, concerning Alberto's fate, go read Dark Victory.

[Ullar]

Thanks. i have read Dark Victory and own it. I just haven;t read it in awhile like long halloween.

[Lorendiac]

Gilda did the first three, from October to December. Alberto faked his death on News Years. Alberto then did all the killings until he was caught by Batman and Gordon. Gilda assumes that Harvey was the one who did all the other killings. In this case she got it wrong. The only killings Harvey did were Carmine Falcone and Vernon.

Also, concerning Alberto's fate, go read Dark Victory.

I still have serious trouble with the idea that Gilda was able to do the Thanksgiving massacre of that Irish gang. On Thanksgiving she was supposed to be in a hospital bed, hooked up to an IV, still recuperating from her injuries in the bombing of the Dent home a few weeks earlier. So if she pulled that one, she needed a lot of lucky coincidences to make it happen perfectly. She especially needed lots of luck to prevent any nurse from coming along to check on her during the hour or two (or more?) that she must have been gone from her hospital bed, because any such nurse would have immediately sounded an alarm: "Where's Mrs. Dent? Where's Mrs. Dent?"

I'm not the only one who feels Gilda's self-incriminating "confession" at the end of TLH may be wildly unreliable. I mention this to illustrate that the question of who did which killings is by no means "definitely solved" to everyone's satisfaction. :)

[LordEd1976]

I still have serious trouble with the idea that Gilda was able to do the Thanksgiving massacre of that Irish gang. On Thanksgiving she was supposed to be in a hospital bed, hooked up to an IV, still recuperating from her injuries in the bombing of the Dent home a few weeks earlier. So if she pulled that one, she needed a lot of lucky coincidences to make it happen perfectly. She especially needed lots of luck to prevent any nurse from coming along to check on her during the hour or two (or more?) that she must have been gone from her hospital bed, because any such nurse would have immediately sounded an alarm: "Where's Mrs. Dent? Where's Mrs. Dent?"

I'm not the only one who feels Gilda's self-incriminating "confession" at the end of TLH may be wildly unreliable. I mention this to illustrate that the question of who did which killings is by no means "definitely solved" to everyone's satisfaction. :)

Gilda says she slipped out while Harvey was asleep by her bedside. While one has to wonder how deep a sleeper Harvey is, it maybe the case that Gilda put on his hat and coat, slipped out of the hospital, and killed the Irish, going back to the hospital before Harvey woke up or the nurses checked on her.

Its never stated but the hotel the Irish are staying maybe close to the hospital. Also, Harvey may have ordered that evryone leave him alone with his wife and that they not come unless he calls them. This may have keep some of the hospital staff away.

I hear what you're saying about the solution not being quite so satisfactory. However, its what the writers gave us and its what we're stuck with until the creators of TLH revisit it or another DC writer decides to "introduce new evidence."

[Lorendiac]

Gilda says she slipped out while Harvey was asleep by her bedside. While one has to wonder how deep a sleeper Harvey is, it maybe the case that Gilda put on his hat and coat, slipped out of the hospital, and killed the Irish, going back to the hospital before Harvey woke up or the nurses checked on her.

Its never stated but the hotel the Irish are staying maybe close to the hospital. Also, Harvey may have ordered that evryone leave him alone with his wife and that they not come unless he calls them. This may have keep some of the hospital staff away.

I hear what you're saying about the solution not being quite so satisfactory. However, its what the writers gave us and its what we're stuck with until the creators of TLH revisit it or another DC writer decides to "introduce new evidence."

Other questions would involve how she magically knew exactly where to find the Irish gang on the spur of the moment, so that she could track them down, shoot them, and scurry back to the hospital. And didn't Harvey, a month later, on Christmas Eve or thereabouts, carry her into their house, partially because the doctor who released her from the hospital had said she shouldn't exert herself too much? If she was still in fairly fragile condition in late December, then was she really in such great shape to run around the city killing people in late November? :)

Then there's the way that Holiday, or the various Holiday killers, kept switching back and forth between firing right-handed and firing left-handed . . . those occurrences seemed like clues, and it would have been nice to see something actually come of that. To find out, for example, if Alberto was definitely capable of firing a gun accurately with his left hand when he felt like it.

I think it would be wildly reckless of Harvey to tell the nurses to absolutely, positively not enter his wife's room for the next few hours while he was visiting her. (And frankly, I have strong doubts as to whether hospital nurses would feel any obligation to respect such stupid wishes.) I mean, suppose Harvey fell asleep (as he allegedly did) and that his wife then got into some sort of trouble? Breathing difficulty, or whatever? A husband who arbitrarily ordered medical personnel to not look in on his wounded wife for hours at a stretch would have to be practically insane. Schizophrenic, maybe. On the verge of cracking up and behaving in a totally irrational fashion some of the time. Oh, wait . . . this is Harvey Dent we're talking about, not Joe Mental-Stability. Okay, so maybe that wasn't the most convincing line of argument. *Ahem.* Let's move on, shall we? :)

On that part about what the creators gave us: You've reminded me of something. Some time ago I was in another discussion of the lingering mysteries of TLH and someone told me that in a Wizard interview many years ago Jeph Loeb had supposedly said something to the effect that Gilda's confession should be taken as gospel truth, plain and simple. But I've never actually seen that magazine or an online transcript of that interview, so I don't know if he actually commited himself that way in a statement for the record, or not.

Even if he did say it, though, I'm not sure it needs to be taken seriously. If the author's own opinion of what "really happened" in his story doesn't make much sense, are the fans required to assume that he is right anyway? I think I once said in another discussion on the CBR Forums that I basically regard the "Sins Past" story arc from "Amazing Spider-Man" as one huge typographical error that I try not to worry about because I don't really believe it "ever really happened" in continuity. Someone suggested I must have a really weird mind, if I thought I could edit continuity that way to suit myself and pretend that some of the published material was less canonical than other published material, and I said something to the effect of "On the contrary! I think it proves I'm suited to be a functional comic book editor or writer! They retcon each other's pet stories and plot twists all the time, without shame or apology! Why shouldn't we fans have the same privilege of deciding which things never really happened?" ;)