Robin #150 (Not about Batgirl) *Spoilers*

[Lex]

I decided to start a new thread about this issue because the other is only focussed on the Batgirl part. And I wanted to discuss the other stuff in this issue.

I enjoyed this issue. Especially the beginning. I think Beechen really gets Robin.

He writes him as confident and smart. I liked that he showed how thorough Tim planned his mission into Blackgate. I enjoy seeing stuff like that with Batman and Robin. I liked the Robin is trying to follow Bruce's teachings, but is making a few mistakes along the way. I can relate to that.

Beechen also gives Tim a lot of funny one-liners. "Although I'm glad the uniform doesn't force Robin to wear just briefs anymore..." while thinking about the sewer water he was walking in.

And I loved the laser scene. Robin spent 11 hours figuring out the "incredibly complex geometry" to get through it. And he used mirrored discs to redirect the laser beams out of his way. I thought it was a fun, smart scene.

One of the most interesting things is the subplot with Zoanne, who is going to be Tim's tutor. That should add some good personal drama to the book.

So what did everyone think about the non-Batgirl parts?

[Blight]

I decided to start a new thread about this issue because the other is only focussed on the Batgirl part. And I wanted to discuss the other stuff in this issue.

I enjoyed this issue. Especially the beginning. I think Beechen really gets Robin.

He writes him as confident and smart. I liked that he showed how thorough Tim planned his mission into Blackgate. I enjoy seeing stuff like that with Batman and Robin. I liked the Robin is trying to follow Bruce's teachings, but is making a few mistakes along the way. I can relate to that.

Beechen also gives Tim a lot of funny one-liners. "Although I'm glad the uniform doesn't force Robin to wear just briefs anymore..." while thinking about the sewer water he was walking in.

And I loved the laser scene. Robin spent 11 hours figuring out the "incredibly complex geometry" to get through it. And he used mirrored discs to redirect the laser beams out of his way. I thought it was a fun, smart scene.

One of the most interesting things is the subplot with Zoanne, who is going to be Tim's tutor. That should add some good personal drama to the book.

So what did everyone think about the non-Batgirl parts?

Some dude gives a boomarang to one of Robin's snitches. That was about the only positive I had with the issue.

[Papervolcano]

Up to the reveal, I enjoyed this book - Robin OYL has been great so far, and I love what Beechen has done with it, even if bits of it (like breaking into Blackgate - how did Tim do his laserdance back out while carrying Cain?) don't make sense.

Tim as a detective, being the kind of guy that'll happily sit down and work out the complex details, the most efficient way to do X - it's fantastic, and I love it. Tim is confident and capable, and that's what I want from my heroes. Bringing in Zoanne sounds like it could be a cool subplot and interesting support character, particularly as Tim deals with the deaths of his girlfriend, friend and father. I like the idea that Tim's seen as some kind of no-show wierdo at school, and I'll be interested to see how that develops.

It all sets him up as individual from Dick or Bruce, a real hero with his own capabilities and specialities, his own powerset. Robin OYL really showcases his potential, as it should.

Also, the cover. I love that cover. I need that cover as a poster.

But if that's really Cass, then I've bought my last DC book. It's the kind of thing that'll make me drop comics entirely.

[Damo]

Not liking it at all. Okay, I know I've been harping on about Cass in this story, but just focusing on Tim? I don't like the way he's being handled here.

I've gone on at length about the police station scene. There's a police station, filled with people that have orders to shoot Robin, and what does Tim do? He goes in dressed as Robin, and, surprise surprise, gets shot at. That was dumb. We've seen Tim use a disguise in similar situations. Heck, we see him dress as a cop to get out of this, raising the question why didn't he try that to get in?

People are talking about "Tim the Detective" being back. I'm not seeing it. He tried to get the suit for fingerprints, and spotted a note left in it written in Navajo. Encyclopedia Brown does more detecting than that. If this were a good depiction of Tim as a smart detective, we'd have seen him asking the real hard questions - who is out there that could kidnap Cass, but would need him to get Cain? How did the "kidnappers" know that he and Cass both spoke Navajo? Why did they need to frame him to get him to do this - wouldn't Cass being kidnapped be enough to motivate him to break out David Cain?

Knowing Tim did the math to get by those lasers was cool, but seeing the actual acrobatics involved was pushing it. That was "the best day of his life" for the Tim that I know. But okay, it was fair. What wasn't fair was knowing he had to do the same thing on the way out, dragging Cain.

And Tim knocking out Cain without a scratch? Come on, there's the element of surprise, and then there's just being plain silly. And the Tim I know wouldn't take a gamble that he could surprise Cain, not with a friend's life on the line. He'd figure out a way to take Cain out without a fight.

The big thing for me though was when he got that look of surprise when Batgirl suggested he was just another tool on Batman's belt. Please. Not even for a moment, not even if he was faking it, should he look like that.

I'm not saying it's all bad, some of his dialogue's been good, and is usually spot on. But the situations he's finding himself in, and his solutions to them, just aren't well written for this character.

[Nick Kal]

I like this title. I'm thinking that David Cain has let Robin take him once he heard about Cassandra... and that we'll see David Cain beat the crap out of someone later.

Also, Captain Boomerang getting in on the title is going to be bad ass.

[Damo]

Also, Captain Boomerang getting in on the title is going to be bad ass.

Correct me if I'm wrong... but is this the first time we've totally agreed on anything? ^^()

[Nick Kal]

I dunno... The only thing I can think of us not agreeing on is Cassandra being a villain...:p

[Damo]

I dunno... The only thing I can think of us not agreeing on is Cassandra being a villain...:p

Ahem. Booo! :p

[KenK]

You know, when everyone was saying something "happened to Batgirl" or she had become another "Women In Refrigerator" victim, I thought she was dead or something. In which case, yeah, I woulda been pissed. But you know what, I LIKE what they appear to be doing with her! i'm tired of characters who were raised to be evil but learned to be good. It's really old-hat, and I'm looking forward to this spin on the character. It has been a year, and Cassandra had long since let go of her many insecurities, even before the one year jump. I love that they're playing her up like a lady R'as Al Ghul, as well, trying to get Robin into the fold. She does respect him, and probably has some romantic feelings toward him as well. I say bring on the evil Bat-bitch!!:D

[Damo]

stuff all about Batgirl, in the thread marked "not about Batigrl"

Anyway. Typed this up elsewhere.

This arc has showed Tim being stupid, in several ways. There are more, but these are the ones that bugged me the most.

1. The biggy. Tim is wanted by the police who have orders to shoot Robin. So Tim decides to go into a police station, dressed in the red tights, mask, and cape. Despite the fact that he's used disguises in similar situations in the past. Despite the fact that he apparently could have passed for a cop, seeing as how that's how he ended up having to get out, after people started shooting (endangering themselves and others as well as him), raising the question why he didn't just try to go in as a cop in the first place.

2. He gets a ransom demand saying "we have Batgirl, break David Cain out of prison," and decides to keep handling it himself. No. Screw that, no. I'm not saying that Robin isn't capable. I'm saying that this is not some amateur kid that doesn't know when things are serious enough to go ask for help. Clearing his name, trying to find Batgirl? Yeah, I could see him saying he'll try to do that alone. But the second Batgirl's life was said to be in danger, the moment someone told him to break out one of the world's deadliest men (a guy that even Batman never beat while sober), if Tim had a brain he would have picked up a phone and told everyone . It makes Tim look like a selfish moron that he still clung to his "this is my case" rationalization after getting that note.

3. Tim "gets" David Cain by beating him up. In unarmed combat (unarmed because he lost his staff at the station. I guess Batman won't buy him more than one at a time). Okay, even aside from how inane it is to have Tim take out David Cain, it again makes him look like an egotistical selfish fool that he would take the chance that he could beat Cain (using the element of surprise or whatever excuse you want) in unarmed combat with Cass' safety on the line. This was way too serious for him to go in with anything less than a plan for absolute victory, and "maybe he's gotten soft and I can take him by surprise" or "maybe it's enough that I got a year of training from a guy that's never totally beaten this guy" is insufficient.

4. He looks like Cass has actually mad him question if Batman is just using him. No. Not as that scene was drawn and written. I could believe him faking it and going along, and maybe that's what he was doing after a few moments. But what was drawn and written was a clear depiction of him in jaw-dropped horror at the possiblity it might be true the very moment he heard it.

This is Tim being dumb. This is not Tim being the intelligent young detective that figured out Batman's secret identity. Looking for a fingerprint and finding a ransom note? That's not being an intelligent young detective, that's doing what every schoolchild knows to do.

[Sizzle]

I thought the issue was so so. What I did not like was that, yes, I don't believe Cass being a villian. It was like a heel turn in the WWE or something. Also, Tim needs a tutor? He's going to be the smartest kid in the school. Not that he can let it on, but I'd imagine living under Bruce's roof again, A's are required in school.

[Ovid]

This was a really difficult issue to review (here (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=38994)) precisely because, apart from the Batgirl thing, it was pretty good. I thought Tim's characterisation was good. The internal monologue was a bit overdone perhaps, but otherwise I was happy. The art was fantastic as well. But then there was the Batgirl thing...