52: BLACK ADAM Discussion *Spoilers*

[Lex]

This thread is for discussing and speculating on Black Adam, one of my main characters of 52. If you want to generally discuss a certain 52 issue, please try to keep it in that issue’s designated thread.

Also remember, if you want to post any information from an issue before it hits the stands on Wed., please use [spoil ] [/spoil ] tags.

Black Adam’s History:

Teth-Adam lived during they dynasty of Pharaoh Rameses II in ancient Egypt. He was from the small country of Khandaq, which was part of the Egyptian empire. Teth was chosen by the wizard Shazam to be his successor. By saying the word "Shazam!" Teth gains powers from the Egyptian gods Shu, Heru, Amon, Zehuti, Aton, and Mehen. With those powers he became a champion to his people and helped other heroes of his day, such as Prince Khufu (the future Hawkman). While he was away from Khandaq, a powerful villain named Ahk-Ton attacked the country and killed his wife and children. This enraged Teth, who killed Ahk-Ton and took a more forceful role as Khandaq's ruler. This caused Shazam to doubt Teth's role as his successor. He trapped Teth's powers and soul in a jeweled scarab and buired it in a tomb.

The scarab was uncovered in the 20th century by Teth's decendant Theo Adam, who killed two archeologists named Batson to get the scarab. The scarab awoke Teth's power and soul and took over Theo Adam. Theo began using the power to further his greed. It was then he came into contact with Billy Batson, Shazam's new successor and the son of the archeologists he had killed. Over many years of stuggle with Captain Marvel, Theo's personality slowly faded away and Teth Adam's original memories and personality resurfaced. It was then that he decided to redeem himself for Theo's crimes and he joined the Justice Society to show that he had reformed.

Adam then decided to use his reformed image to depose the current ruler (and dictator) of Khandaq. This brought him into conflict with his former friends in the JSA, but they couldn't do much because the people of Khandaq loved Adam. Adam, in trying to protect Khandaq, joined with the villainous Society who then betrayed him. Now he has to rethink his role in the world.

Covers:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/haggard/blackadam1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/haggard/montoya2.jpg

[ChthonicSpirit]

Just read 52 #1. Had forgotten about the setting up of the Khandaqui embassy in the former Themyscira House.

I had a crazy thought when I saw that: How will the hiring process go? Black Adam will certainly need embassy staff. Will he perhaps wind up with a secretary by the name of Diana Prince?

[Lex]

That would be kind of funny. Wonder Woman might suspect that Black Adam is up to no good and decides to spy on him. I can see her doing that during her "year off."

How do embassies work? Do they hire people who aren't from that home country to work in the embassy? I think that's how the Themyscira embassy worked.

[Gauss]

Anyone else notice that Adam stole Captain Marvel's cape and poured tar all over it?:confused:

[Lex]

Yeah I noticed that. I figure that since he's the ruler of a country, he might want to look a little more regal. Especially if he's entertaining a foreign lady friend. :)

[Tom]

Strangely, Isis looks completely different on those two covers. Like, entirely-different-race different.

[Justin D.]

Strangely, Isis looks completely different on those two covers. Like, entirely-different-race different.

I can't see much of a difference besides skin tone since Isis' face isn't all that clear on the first cover. The skin tone doesn't look like a real difference to me either since the colors have been altered on the poster in the second cover.

[Tom]

I know it seems like I'm obsessed with skin tone lately, but I swear it's just a coincidence. She looks more...semitic in the second pic. It's not just the skin tone, but the braided hair and the giant earrings in the second pic. Not at all a complaint. I think she looks great in the second pic and I'm intrigued and impressed that DC appears to be making a real attempt at creating middle-eastern superheroes.

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

the same one from tv? the one in the captain marvel series?
wow! if so, i'm really excited about it because I remember LIEFELD doing an isis and a steve austin/jamie sommers comic.

a curious rio...

[protege]

Anyone else notice that Adam stole Captain Marvel's cape and poured tar all over it?:confused:
Okay, is that a cape or a flag?

[Michael Painter]

Eh, I don't see a significant skin tone issue within the 52 covers. I think the wedding cover is meant to be oversaturated, like a propaganda poster or mural that's been something very common in countries like Libya, and until recently Iraq. Posters never are meant to be so photorealistic, it just looks like a picture of the new royal couple of Khandaq.
I don't know thought about Isis, something about her just seems a little too much to be true, even if the character logically would have an origin from that region. It seems a lttle fishy that Adam would be swept offf his feet in four months time, I really am expecting traitor from Isis or a Tomorrow Woman-like plot device being pulled.

[Gauss]

Okay, is that a cape or a flag?

Both in the first picture. He's wearing the cape for the poster in the second pic.:)

[K'Nort]

Strangely, Isis looks completely different on those two covers. Like, entirely-different-race different.

My first thought on the second cover was that she looked like Jakita Wagner. Which would be a heck of a (totally doomed) team-up.

[Xero]

In the second picture both characters are drawn as if they are actually of north african descent, they both look semitic and totally different from the first picture.

It was probably a very deliberate change.

[Rokk]

I dig both covers. Regardless of how Black Adam is drawn, I know one thing: He is one bad mother. I love this character and am very interested to see the role he plays in 52.

[Tom]

I'm wondering if she's his resurrected wife or something. They're first depicted in front of the Sphinx, which is essentially a giant tomb and look at her belt in the first pic: lightning bolt motif.

[Shellhead]

I'm wondering if she's his resurrected wife or something. They're first depicted in front of the Sphinx, which is essentially a giant tomb and look at her belt in the first pic: lightning bolt motif.

She would almost have to be, because Black Adam doesn't exactly come across as a loveable guy who would quickly hit if off with women.

[Buried Alien]

Interestingly, the Isis character was never, I believe, owned by DC Comics proper. She did not exist in the DCU prior to the 1970s ISIS television show, and I believe the character was created and owned by Filmation (producers of the show) and licensed to DC Comics in the 1970s for a tie-in comic book series. Until now, Isis has not subsequently shown up in a DC comic again and back in the day, I don't think she ever met or interacted with DCU characters (not even Captain Marvel) in her comic.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Shellhead]

Interestingly, the Isis character was never, I believe, owned by DC Comics proper. She did not exist in the DCU prior to the 1970s ISIS television show, and I believe the character was created and owned by Filmation (producers of the show) and licensed to DC Comics in the 1970s for a tie-in comic book series. Until now, Isis has not subsequently shown up in a DC Comic again and back in the day, I don't think she ever met or interacted with DCU characters (not even Captain Marvel) in her comic.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Maybe Isis slipped into public domain, where DC could get her for free? Or is there a mythological Isis that was always available?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

As long as the DC Isis character is different enough from the Filmation Isis character, I don't think there would be a problem. Isn't Isis a mythological name? You can't really copywrite mythology. It's why Thor can appear in a DC comic. As long as he's not a big blond dude with a red cape and six Kirby Dots on his chest, it's a-okay.

[DarthAstuart]

the solicits for the upcoming Showcase Presents: Shazam says that it omits one issue from the 1970's series...and it's an issue that prominently features Isis. so I'm guessing that means this version is based on the mythological isis?

[Shellhead]

As long as the DC Isis character is different enough from the Filmation Isis character, I don't think there would be a problem. Isn't Isis a mythological name? You can't really copywrite mythology. It's why Thor can appear in a DC comic. As long as he's not a big blond dude with a red cape and six Kirby Dots on his chest, it's a-okay.

Actually, a Thor that matches your description showed up in JLA #103, sort of. It was a person in a Halloween costume who gets magically powered up by the threat du jour in that issue.

[AllisterH]

There is a mythological Isis, however, the look of the Isis in 52 along with the hints in Wizard ("a longtime character will make their debut in 52") gives me the impression that this is the tv Isis or at least based heavily on it.

Isis (the tv version) is a weird situation a la Blue Beetle.

When the Shazam live action was on, it was popular enough that Filmation (the creators who had licensed it) figured it could strike gold again with the female demographic.

So Isis debut on the Shazam live action show. Now, here's where it gets somewhat weird. At the time, I don't think DC owned Fawcett outright thus the original contract Filmation had wasn't a typical DC tv show contract.

Namely, any characters introduced in the original property would revert back to DC at the end of the run of the license. For some reason, the contract didn't have this and Filmation owned the rights to Isis.

However, during the actual run of the show, Isis had a miniseries produced by DC to tie-in with the show. Thus, pre-Crisis, there was an Isis who existed on Earth-S.

Apparently, Filmation would occasionally think about retooling Isis but nothing came of it. Then Filmation was bought by Hallmark (yes, the card company). Hallmark closed down Filmation (for tax reasons/shelter) and basically everything from He-man to Isis was languishing in their vaults since Hallmark wasn't interested in producing and DVD with the backlog of shows they had.

A few years ago however, a company bought the entire Filmation library from Hallmark and has been in the process of producing DVD of the Filmation library.

With the resurgence of the Captain Marvel/Fawcett stable of characters (the marvel/fawcett family has been appearing in many comics over the past few years), I'm willing to bet that someone at DC simply made an offer for Isis and DC "bought" Isis outright.I've no proof but I figure this is what happened...

[K'Nort]

How would all those legalities tie into the Isis book over at Alias?

[protege]

There is a mythological Isis, however, the look of the Isis in 52 along with the hints in Wizard ("a longtime character will make their debut in 52") gives me the impression that this is the tv Isis or at least based heavily on it.

Isis (the tv version) is a weird situation a la Blue Beetle.

When the Shazam live action was on, it was popular enough that Filmation (the creators who had licensed it) figured it could strike gold again with the female demographic.

So Isis debut on the Shazam live action show. Now, here's where it gets somewhat weird. At the time, I don't think DC owned Fawcett outright thus the original contract Filmation had wasn't a typical DC tv show contract.

Namely, any characters introduced in the original property would revert back to DC at the end of the run of the license. For some reason, the contract didn't have this and Filmation owned the rights to Isis.

However, during the actual run of the show, Isis had a miniseries produced by DC to tie-in with the show. Thus, pre-Crisis, there was an Isis who existed on Earth-S.

Apparently, Filmation would occasionally think about retooling Isis but nothing came of it. Then Filmation was bought by Hallmark (yes, the card company). Hallmark closed down Filmation (for tax reasons/shelter) and basically everything from He-man to Isis was languishing in their vaults since Hallmark wasn't interested in producing and DVD with the backlog of shows they had.

A few years ago however, a company bought the entire Filmation library from Hallmark and has been in the process of producing DVD of the Filmation library.

With the resurgence of the Captain Marvel/Fawcett stable of characters (the marvel/fawcett family has been appearing in many comics over the past few years), I'm willing to bet that someone at DC simply made an offer for Isis and DC "bought" Isis outright.I've no proof but I figure this is what happened...
i don't think "Isis was a mini series, but a regular one- it just didn't last too long.

[Rokk]

You can check out all you want to know about Isis and her ill fated comic book here (http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/isis/comics.html). It was published from 1976-1978. Check out those spiffy comic book covers.

[AllisterH]

How would all those legalities tie into the Isis book over at Alias?

Given that Isis is a mythological figure, anyone can create an "Isis" series. True, the look of Isis at Alias comics does bear a striking resemblance to the Isis from the tv show but reading their Isis, it seems it is based on the "actual" Isis a la Thor. Meaning, it isn't based on the old tv series.

Whereas the DC/Filmation version was simply an Avatar/Champion of Isis which we don't know if the one with Black Adam is.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Actually, a Thor that matches your description showed up in JLA #103, sort of. It was a person in a Halloween costume who gets magically powered up by the threat du jour in that issue.

One shot "homages" are probably acceptable, but I guarantee you Marvel would take issue with the character if he appeared on a a regular basis.

[Captain_Marvel]

You know, this could turn out to be a very interesting situation. If in fact Billy is now in the role of Shazam, does Black Adam's power now come from his one-time arch enemy? Up until Day of Vengence, it still came from the wizard. That was why he was able to summon the lightning to power Alex's machine in Infinity Crisis. Hmmmm.

[Lex]

The fact that Adam gets his powers from a different set of gods might fudge things a bit. Adam might be able to remain powered even if the other Marvels are having problems.

[Rhydaman]

How do embassies work? Do they hire people who aren't from that home country to work in the embassy? I think that's how the Themyscira embassy worked.
That's pretty standard practice. The diplomats and officials are all from the embassy's country, but the backroom people (secretaries, doormen, postroom, catering) are usually from the host country.

I was surprised, though, that scene in 52#1 showed the Khandaqi flag flying below that of the US. An embassy just wouldn't fly another country's flag on the same pole as its own.

[Third Summers]

Well I have fallen for the bait. I was never into B.A. or really any of the Marvel family until the buildup in I.C. and the continued payoff in 52. I am now one of the converts to the awesomeness of Adam. I am looking for leads or suggestions of solid storylines featuring B.A. Damn you DC for making me want to spend more money on good stories!!!

[tk421atpost]

A good place to start would be The Power of Shazam! graphic novel that Jerry Ordway did about 15 years ago. It deals with the origins of Captain Marvel and Black Adam and tells a good story with great art.

[Bobster777]

The guy pretty much tore someone apart on live television. Why haven't the DC heroes gone after him?

[Deathstroke]

Isn't he the head of state for Kahndaq?

Kind of a hard thing to do, go after a head of state.

[Red Berens]

The Shazam series from 1973 is always a fun read, and Black Adam made some appearances in it. They even reprinted some of the stories from the 1940's. The character was very different than the one now, and I'm not sure if you're interested in the historical / early beginnings of the character, but the stories are charming.

The best series to read featuring the new character would be the JSA. The stories in the last couple of years have really defined the new Black Adam.

[Forsaken_One]

Yeah, Power of Shazam had Black Adam. He was also in the War of the Gods thing back in '91 as I remember. If you pick up the early JSA trades he was in that team for a bit. A lot of his backstory in Egypt was shown in the pages of JSA so picking up those trades would help.

He left the team with the Black Reign story arc in JSA which you'll want to pick up, since that was when he took over the country he currently runs. Personally I felt it was a bit of a silly ending -- meant to make the JSA look good at the expense of solid policies -- but it was an okay read.

He was also in Villians United but he wasn't the focus there, so you can probably avoid that. Good series in any event, but if you're just interested in Black Adam it's not the best value. And, of course, he was in Infinite Crisis.

[Third Summers]

Thanks for all the info guys ,please feel free to keep'em coming.

[Kid Quick Foots]

so THIS is where my post went, i was looking for it. anyway, yeah B.A is the man, as stated by others, i was never into the whole "marvel" family thing, seem'd to corny to me imho, but adam has changed my mind BIG TIME and im looking forward to more.

[Bruce Wayne Jr.]

Yeah, he's claiming diplomatic immunity at the moment. His... "disposal" of Terra-Man happened on the grounds of the Kahndaq embassy, so Adam's got the heroes stuck on a technicality.

I seriously doubt it will last too much longer, though...

[DWEarhart]

He also has treaties with China and another country. If anyone goes after Black Adam, it will be seen as a declaration of war. WWIII will be ONNN!!!.

[Jack]

The heroes are also stretched pretty thin at the moment, with a lot of them being missing or dead or stuck in hospital, and especially the Big Three being out of action.

[IamtheRock3]

for you know his involment in the crisis

Shouldnt he be DC bin Laden

He did cause a lot Death lining up with the villans

[Guts/Batman]

Seeing how as most of that is still probably secret stil. And how about they hear he did it because he had a bomb that would nuke his country that would make his nation unihabitable for 2000 years. I wonder if they would sympathise.

Most people are still stuck on WW killing Max on live television...

[algertman]

Because they'll get the EYE POKE OF DOOM or ripped in half. They don't want no hurtin' like that

[Guts/Batman]

Power Girl, after Adam poked the President of the US's eye out: "Was that really necessary?"

Adam: "Absolutely."

[Shellhead]

Post-IC, Black Adam has been organizing some kind of political arrangement involving superheroes affiliated with non-western countries, like China, Egypt and Russia. Those countries may have been uneasy for years about the Justice League of *America*.

[davids]

BETWEEN BLACK ADAM AND THE BIG BLUE BOY SCOUT! There just setting it up. OR

Adam believes the old way of dealing with villians is to soft, that the time has come to take the gloves off and finish evil once and for all and by any means.

You know like what happened to cause Kingdom Come and Superman's self imposed exile! :(

[Guts/Batman]

Another Black Adam/Superman fight already?

Damn, are they running out of opponents for Black Adam already?

[algertman]

Another Black Adam/Superman fight already?

Damn, are they running out of opponents for Black Adam already?


He seems to be killing them all off. I would LOVE for him to go up against the new Suicide Squad that's gonna pop in CheckMate

[marshal99]

He seems to be killing them all off. I would LOVE for him to go up against the new Suicide Squad that's gonna pop in CheckMate

And who's going to be in the new suicide squad ?

[Rhydaman]

Seeing how as most of that is still probably secret stil.
Probably the only bit that would be public knowledge would be the battle in Metropolis. Where Adam was on the same side as the heroes.

So far as OYL is concerned, the formation of a group of states to oppose the US's supers is quite likely to be applauded by "the world", as more of the world is in Adam's group than in the US's.

[Agentum]

AND he i supposed to have killed Cap. Marvels parents.

[Shellhead]

AND he i supposed to have killed Cap. Marvels parents.

Did that happen on pre-Crisis Earth-S? And if so, is it still in continuity? And does the general public know?

[Agentum]

Did that happen on pre-Crisis Earth-S? And if so, is it still in continuity? And does the general public know?
Well it was before the recent crisis, in the 90s Power of Shazam series.
And as you point out things go out of continuity and i don't think the public know this exactly as they don't know that Cap. Marvel is Billy Batson.

[Ronnigon]

Black Adam isn't more hated, for two reasons:

1) He's a consummate, power-lusting narcissist and, beneath all their mandatory protestations to the contrary, people are also basically power-lusters who think his attainment of actual power and his displays of horrific, narcissistic viciousness are really, really "awesome".

2) He's a third-world ethnicity, and everyone is mentally trained and brainwashed to "honor" the "beautiful diversity" of even the most nightmarishly savage culture, such as his.

Egomaniacal desert maniacs who run their own people and cultures into the ground through their own choice of philosophical malignancy, rather than any "oppression" from outside sources -- and let's face it, those flimsy rationales are really just about envious resentment and threatened egomania -- deserve to be "sanctified" and "preserved" for their "charming quaintness".

After all... in our corrupt PC world, there's no such thing as "wrong" or "evil"!

Cheers. :D

[Shellhead]

Black Adam isn't more hated, for two reasons:

1) He's a consummate, power-lusting narcissist and, beneath all their mandatory protestations to the contrary, people are also basically power-lusters who think his attainment of actual power and his displays of horrific, narcissistic viciousness are really, really "awesome".

2) He's a third-world ethnicity, and everyone is mentally trained and brainwashed to "honor" the "beautiful diversity" of even the most nightmarishly savage culture, such as his.

Egomaniacal desert maniacs who run their own people and cultures into the ground through their own choice of philosophical malignancy, rather than any "oppression" from outside sources -- and let's face it, those flimsy rationales are really just about envious resentment and threatened egomania -- deserve to be "sanctified" and "preserved" for their "charming quaintness".

After all... in our corrupt PC world, there's no such thing as "wrong" or "evil"!

Cheers. :D

Are you sure you're a Canadian? Your post read more like a red-blooded xenophobic rant by a "true American."

1. I suspect that narcissists, by their very nature, aren't fond of other narcissists.

2. Everyone is *not* mentally trained to blah-blah-blah... the history of mankind is often the history of intolerance. Until very recently, people have tended to prefer people similar to themselves, and hate or at least distrust those who are different. How you could reach the opposite conclusion is mysterious to me.

And is it really just egomania, if someone with invulnerability, flight, and superhuman strength and speed decides to take over? Or is that merely an example of somebody abusing power? Which makes more sense, the most powerful guy around takes control of the country, or the most powerful guy around takes orders from ordinary politicians?

From the standpoint of ordinary humans on DC-Earth, there has only been one major superhero team that wasn't based in the United States. And the Global Guardians apparently haven't been very active in recent years, judging by their absence from DC comics.

So, for all the people living in countries that don't worship Americans, it is probably a relief to see Black Adam organize a new coalition of superheroes from countries that don't happen to be America. The JLA and the JSA have saved the world on numerous occasions, but we rarely see them helping with famines or droughts in Africa, or earthquakes in China, or anything similar.

Also, from the standpoint of the average human, Black Adam probably seems like a hero. He worked with the JSA on several adventures, and they are the first superhero team on DC-Earth. Since then, Black Adam overthrew a notorious dictator and publicly killed some known villains. His activities with the Society during Infinite Crisis was pretty low-profile in comparison, lacking official press coverage.

[Frostbite883]

Power Girl, after Adam poked the President of the US's eye out: "Was that really necessary?"

Adam: "Absolutely."


Compare to BA, Superdick is pretty much a harmless prankster. ;) :p

[Ronnigon]

Shellhead,

Autonomy is great for a leader, but Black Adam could preserve his autonomy and effectiveness without resorting to grand-standing, sadistic methods.

His use of those is purely gratuitous, so that power-lusting, borderline psychopathic fanboys can look at them and go, "COOL...!"

I, for one, am tired of this Pulp Fictionish, "cruelty is cool" culture that so many of you worship.

And yes, that insult was aimed right at you, in exchange for your "red-blooded, xenophobic", "true American" smear that you so generously aimed right at me. Canadian or no, I think for myself, and one doesn't have to be a "true American" to take a stand against evil within any of your "sacred" cultures.

If you choose your words more gingerly, so will I. But, as the line from the movie Tron goes, "When somebody pushes me... I push back". Your yen for trying to turn this into a personal game of "alpha male" will not go smoothly with me... I can assure you.

And if any Black Adam-wannabe forum moderator wants to ban me for saying these things and daring to stand up to you, so be it. My addictive loyalty to any internet forum is amusingly non-existent. In other words, if anyone in here thinks I need this place so bad that I'll stay here and play "whipping boy" in your "bully boy pecking order", you've got another thing coming.

[Shellhead]

Shellhead,

Autonomy is great for a leader, but Black Adam could preserve his autonomy and effectiveness without resorting to grand-standing, sadistic methods.

His use of those is purely gratuitous, so that power-lusting, borderline psychopathic fanboys can look at them and go, "COOL...!"

I, for one, am tired of this Pulp Fictionish, "cruelty is cool" culture that so many of you worship.

And yes, that insult was aimed right at you, in exchange for your "red-blooded, xenophobic", "true American" smear that you so generously aimed right at me. Canadian or no, I think for myself, and one doesn't have to be a "true American" to take a stand against evil within any of your "sacred" cultures.

If you choose your words more gingerly, so will I. But, as the line from the movie Tron goes, "When somebody pushes me... I push back". Your yen for trying to turn this into a personal game of "alpha male" will not go smoothly with me... I can assure you.

And if any Black Adam-wannabe forum moderator wants to ban me for saying these things and daring to stand up to you, so be it. I've gotten over more internet forums than there are stars in the sky.

I find Black Adam to be an interesting character, but if I met him in real life, I would probably hate him. I don't approve of his methods, even as I recognize their effectiveness so far. When he finally clashed with the JSA, I was definitely cheering them on, not Black Adam.

But I am capable of stepping back and imagining how others might perceive him. Not all of his actions have been broadcast on the evening news in the DCU, and those that have, at least in recent times, have seemed more heroic than villainous. Black Adam liberated people living under the rule of a brutal dictator... the fact that he is also a brutal dictator is probably not yet widespread knowledge, even in the DCU Mideast. Sure, the JSA clashed with him. They have also been seen in public fighting other JSA members, like Dr. Fate (okay, it was really a certain evil sorceror) and the Spectre; these kinds of things happen often enough.

But you don't see that viewpoint. Instead, you assume that people like Black Adam because it is the politically correct thing to do. Or because he is dark and violent. I think that we are talking about two different sets of people. You are talking about comic fans, and I'm talking about non-Americans living on DC-Earth. That is a big difference. If we are just talking about comic fans, than I agree that probably some people just like that he is ultra-violent. I doubt that most Black Adam fans are obsessed with the fact that he isn't caucasian.

You might find Black Adam more interesting if you read up on his appearances in JSA and Hawkman. In ancient times, Black Adam was known as [EDITED for spelling] Teth-Adam, and he was basically the original Captain Marvel. But his wife and children were killed by villains of that time. Since then, he came under the influence of the villainous personality of his modern host body, which is when he performed much of his own villainy. After meeting the JSA, he regained his original personality, only now he is more ruthless and vengeful in his response to what he perceives as evil. Imagine how Marvel's Punisher would act if he was as powerful as Superman and from an ancient society, and you might get someone similar to Black Adam.

[EZMOHR]

As the leader of anything that has to do with having a man-crush on Black Adam......I like to say I enjoy reading him. He is the best character re-boot of the decade. Hell, him and Ultimate Namor are the best two characters of the decade. He went from that "Namor looking dude who wears Captain Marvel's outfit in black" for the first 50 years of his exsistence, to one of the most complex DC characters today.

That being said, I most likely would not agree with his kill all that moves tactics. I'm all about justice, and his methods are vengence and himself...not justice.

VIVA BLACK ADAM.

[Paul Newell]

And if any Black Adam-wannabe forum moderator wants to ban me for saying these things and daring to stand up to you, so be it. My addictive loyalty to any internet forum is amusingly non-existent. In other words, if anyone in here thinks I need this place so bad that I'll stay here and play "whipping boy" in your "bully boy pecking order", you've got another thing coming.

Sorry, my addictive loyalty to banning any posters, for very little reason, is amusingly non-existent.

[LtMarvel]

A. Black Adam is far better than the leader he supplanted. He has the full support of populace.

B. His Teth-Adam crimes have been ruled not Black Adam's responsiblity by the courts.

C. Black Adam is one tough bastard to try to take out. The JSA failed, causing an international incident.

D. Black Adam is trying to reach out, via his embassies.

E. Let's face it, his methods would meet with approval with some of the general public.

[Agentum]

I don't think he would care much for approvals of his actions, he is supposed to be a ancient man from a vast diffrent world, and he ruled as a king for a long time out of lust for power even if he was manipulated by a evil demon, he already had that basic lust for power in him.

An intresting character but not a hero, Captain Marvel may be less intresting but he is a classic hero.

I can see both your points in this, but i think DC will have him fall again, it wouldnt be right to forgive him for al the bad he has done.

[Ronnigon]

A. Black Adam is far better than the leader he supplanted. He has the full support of populace.

How is he better? More tyrranical and absolute?

B. His Teth-Adam crimes have been ruled not Black Adam's responsiblity by the courts.

A possible real-life kind of scenario, just as scary as would be in real life.

C. Black Adam is one tough bastard to try to take out. The JSA failed, causing an international incident.

Maniacs usually make sure that they're very hard to take out... Especially when they know they're maniacal killers who should receive the worst punishment if removed.

D. Black Adam is trying to reach out, via his embassies.

Awww... How sweet. He's "reaching out". Obviously you're sympathetic.

E. Let's face it, his methods would meet with approval with some of the general public.

Of course... many people prefer brutal domination over the responsibility of thinking for themselves. But should decent people have to suffer for the choices of these fetishists?

[Shellhead]

It occurs to me, while reading this thread, that Black Adam has become something of a Rorshach inkblot test for readers. Kahndaq is clearly meant to represent a DC equivalent to Iraq, but what does Black Adam represent? The ruthless insurgents? The arrogant Bush Administration? Not Saddam, because his proxy was the leader that Black Adam overthrew.

[EZMOHR]

I think Black Adam is supposed to be somebody who is arrogant, but wants to do good. All he cares about are "HIS" people. He's looking out for them and #1. So, in a sense, I think Adam is a mishmash of Iraq and The USA.

[Jeff F]

Black Adam is awesome.

He's a well written Punisher-type, which is rare to find. Exploring the concept of justice is a fine pursuit.



... as the line from the movie Tron goes, "When somebody pushes me... I push back".


I think a better philosophy to turn to is when pushed, use the agressors momentum and slam them into a wall. Hostility is rarely rewarded amongst gentlemen.

[LtMarvel]

How is he better? More tyrranical and absolute?

In the JSA series, the former ruler kept child labor slaves and the people were living in poverty, both conditions causing many deaths. Think of Iraq if ruled by Saddam's sons (who were worse abusers than Saddam, inho).

A possible real-life kind of scenario, just as scary as would be in real life.

Yeah, I never decided whether or not Black Adam got away with it or that the courts were right.

Maniacs usually make sure that they're very hard to take out... Especially when they know they're maniacal killers who should receive the worst punishment if removed.
The only kills were either bad guys or soldiers fighting for the previous regime.


Awww... How sweet. He's "reaching out". Obviously you're sympathetic.

No, just highly interested.

Of course... many people prefer brutal domination over the responsibility of thinking for themselves. But should decent people have to suffer for the choices of these fetishists?You don't get it. The people under his rule prosper.

[Count Vertigo]

Come on, Ronnigon. Lighten up. Such venom isnt necessary on this board. I came to this board to escape rantings from the PC minded, liberal tree hugging whiners and sabrerattling conservatives.

Shellhead,

Autonomy is great for a leader, but Black Adam could preserve his autonomy and effectiveness without resorting to grand-standing, sadistic methods.

His use of those is purely gratuitous, so that power-lusting, borderline psychopathic fanboys can look at them and go, "COOL...!"

I, for one, am tired of this Pulp Fictionish, "cruelty is cool" culture that so many of you worship.

And yes, that insult was aimed right at you, in exchange for your "red-blooded, xenophobic", "true American" smear that you so generously aimed right at me. Canadian or no, I think for myself, and one doesn't have to be a "true American" to take a stand against evil within any of your "sacred" cultures.

If you choose your words more gingerly, so will I. But, as the line from the movie Tron goes, "When somebody pushes me... I push back". Your yen for trying to turn this into a personal game of "alpha male" will not go smoothly with me... I can assure you.

And if any Black Adam-wannabe forum moderator wants to ban me for saying these things and daring to stand up to you, so be it. My addictive loyalty to any internet forum is amusingly non-existent. In other words, if anyone in here thinks I need this place so bad that I'll stay here and play "whipping boy" in your "bully boy pecking order", you've got another thing coming.

[Ronnigon]

I apologize if I seem to be taking this too seriously, but in my own defense, I want to say that, while comics might seem largely pure, trivial recreation, they're much more.

More than just about every other literary medium, they convey what I believe is the most concentrated form of philosophical argument around. They are our era's vanguards of morality.

If the writers of comic books choose to give themselves over to corruption, and start presenting the philosophy of corruption as "cool", then I am convinced that this particular society is truly doomed.

I take comics, in particular, so seriously because I continue to live in awestuck reverence for their supreme importance as shaping popular philosophical and, thus, moral thought.

So, while I apologize for any unfair harshness on my part towards anyone in here in the service of that reverence, I will never apologize for the reverence itself.

I know I like to kid around and joke a lot, but I do take the importance of comics quite seriously.

[Count Vertigo]

They are the best form of escapism, thats true. and its also true theyre somewhat of an indicator of modern society.

excellent post, ronnigon!

I apologize if I seem to be taking this too seriously, but in my own defense, I want to say that, while comics might seem largely pure, trivial recreation, they're much more.

More than just about every other literary medium, they convey what I believe is the most concentrated form of philosophical argument around. They are our era's vanguards of morality.

If the writers of comic books choose to give themselves over to corruption, and start presenting the philosophy of corruption as "cool", then I am convinced that this particular society is truly doomed.

I take comics, in particular, so seriously because I continue to live in awestuck reverence for their supreme importance as shaping popular philosophical and, thus, moral thought.

So, while I apologize for any unfair harshness on my part towards anyone in here in the service of that reverence, I will never apologize for the reverence itself.

I know I like to kid around and joke a lot, but I do take the importance of comics quite seriously.

[AaronJ]

More than just about every other literary medium, they convey what I believe is the most concentrated form of philosophical argument around. They are our era's vanguards of morality.

If the writers of comic books choose to give themselves over to corruption, and start presenting the philosophy of corruption as "cool", then I am convinced that this particular society is truly doomed.


But the question isn't "Why do comic fans like Black Adam?" It is "Why isn't the world more angry with him?" And it seems to me that the answer is fairly clear: the world rarely gives a crap about what leaders do, unless they do it to the person in question. How many people give a crap that millions of people in the Sudan are being displaced, raped, murdered, tortured? Not many, that's how many.

But more importantly, as far as the world of the DCU knows, Black Adam is only harming "terrorists" and "evil doers". It's clear that most of the public in the West couldn't care less what is done to "those people".

Torture them? Sure.
Lock them away in a black hole? Sure.
Rip their head off? Can I help?
Carpet bomb their country and kill children and women and non-combatants? No problem. Go for it!

As long as someone in a position of *apparent* authority says that the victim is a "terrorist" or that your "safety and security" is at risk, then all bets are off. People don't care. They don't give a damn. They will give any and all slack to the authority. Anything goes.

So, at least in their reaction to Black Adam, the people of the DCU are a mirror image of the people in the Real World. What would be totally unrealistic is if people were up in arms over it.

[Ronnigon]

Diana:

... And what's even more nightmarish and outrageous is when the leaders of those third world countries have been allowed to so casually and horrifically torture and butcher their own people for decades and centuries, and the supposedly "enlightened" never care to really object...

...And why don't they care to object? Here's why:

To the "enlightened", those people are just "those people", and the silent and secret rationale that the "enlightened" really embrace for not doing anything to change "those" people's way of life into one more suitable for human beings -- just like themselves, completely unbeknownst to them, of course -- is this:

"Those savages can't be changed... They're not really human beings, like us. They're really just stupid, ignorant wogs, and so they wouldn't know what to do with a civilized society if you gave it to them. So just let them keep cutting their heads off, and say that their way is not 'worse', but just 'different' and, as such, they're entitled to it, if that's what they 'choose'."

When so-called "enlightened" people object to "interfering" with barbaric third world countries, that's their true motivation: the condescending, tacit racism of the elite.

And so, in order to totally complete the Circle of Corruption, what do the "enlightened" then do? As the so-called "leaders" of those "wogs" continue to butcher and terrorize their own people with a wholly sadistic and recreational impunity in order to "keep them in line" in the face of "subversion" by the "interfering outsiders", the "enlightened elite" dare to actually take sides with those "leaders" and join in the small-minded and adolescent game of blaming those "interfering" outsiders.

And, to top it all off, what do these "enlightened" specifically blame those "outsiders" for?

They actually profess to blame them for causing all the horrors in those third world regions!

Hilarious. Hilarious and horrific.

And so, thanks, Diana Fan, for posting your oh-so-heartfelt thoughts. They really inspired me to respond in kind with my own.

[AaronJ]

Diana:

... And what's even more nightmarish and outrageous is when the leaders of those third world countries have been allowed to so casually and horrifically torture and butcher their own people for decades and centuries, and the supposedly "enlightened" never care to really object...

I'm not sure that it's even more nightmarish. What's the difference if the US sends missiles over thousands of miles and kills thousands, or if some tin pot dictator lines thousands of people up and guns them down?

Same final result: thousands dead.

Persoanlly, I don't give a damn who is doing the killing, the raping, the slaughtering, or the constructing of empire. If the Israelis kill without concern or impunity, I condemn it. If al-Qaeda does the same, I condemn it. When the US does it, the same.


...And why don't they care to object? Here's why:

To the "enlightened", those people are just "those people", and the silent and secret rationale that the "enlightened" really embrace for not doing anything to change "those" people's way of life into one more suitable for human beings -- just like themselves, completely unbeknownst to them, of course -- is this:

"Those savages can't be changed... They're not really human beings, like us. They're really just stupid, ignorant wogs, and so they wouldn't know what to do with a civilized society if you gave it to them. So just let them keep cutting their heads off, and say that their way is not 'worse', but just 'different' and, as such, they're entitled to it, if that's what they 'choose'."


I don't disagree with what you say, here.

What I do disagree with is some sort of creative bs that First World governments engage in where they have absolutely no problem murdering swaths of human beings, teaching people to rape, to be torturers, etc., and then claim that somehow they are better or different than whoever the hell it is we are fighting this week.

When bin-Laden was fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan, his buddies were wonderful freedom fighters, battling the horrible Soviet Union. Now, not so much. When we supported Saddam Hussein, he was our body fighting against theocratic nutjobs in Iran. Now, not so much.

The players change, but the game's the same. Grant Morrison said it perfectly:

"Islamic Fundamentalists will kill anyone and anything in the name of religious JIHAD.

Capitalist Fundamentalists will kill anyone and anything in the name of MONEY."

AFAIC, neither reason matters to the dead.


When so-called "enlightened" people object to "interfering" with barbaric third world countries, that's their true motivation: the condescending, tacit racism of the elite.


Agreed.


And so, in order to totally complete the Circle of Corruption, what do the "enlightened" then do? As the so-called "leaders" of those "wogs" continue to butcher and terrorize their own people with a wholly sadistic and recreational impunity in order to "keep them in line" in the face of "subversion" by the "interfering outsiders", the "enlightened elite" dare to actually take sides with those "leaders" and join in the small-minded and adolescent game of blaming those "interfering" outsiders.

And, to top it all off, what do these "enlightened" specifically blame those "outsiders" for?

They actually profess to blame them for causing all the horrors in those third world regions!

Hilarious. Hilarious and horrific.


Again, I'm not really disagreeing with you.

What irks me is that humanity seems to fall for the same shell game over and over, decade after decade, century after century. Every once in a while, I desperately cling to the belief that mankind can actually change.

And then, just as quickly as the feeling approached, it is dismissed, when I look around myself, and spend more than a second thinking.


And so, thanks, Diana Fan, for posting your oh-so-heartfelt thoughts. They really inspired me to respond in kind with my own.

Not sure if you are being sarcastic, or not. But I basically agree with you.

[Ronnigon]

Okay, now we're ironing out some things here.

I'm not sure that it's even more nightmarish. What's the difference if the US sends missiles over thousands of miles and kills thousands, or if some tin pot dictator lines thousands of people up and guns them down?

The difference lies in the difference between a forest and its trees. Quite honestly, you seem to be overwhelmed by trees.

The difference is that the dictator is killing to selectively exterminate all those within his (or, yes, her) society who choose to live by exercising the power of individual thought and choice. Dictators murder, to selectively leave behind only equally-maniacal cronies and "yes men". Dictators also murder en masse, because they are, at heart, sadists who derive a short-sighted, vain ego boost from the cancerous exercise of gratuitous destruction.

When America kills, it kills largely out of a perceived sense of real threat, and thus for self-preservation. When dictators kill, they kill because they frequently create what amount to deliberately impossible-to-comply-with circumstances, so that they can then have a seemingly justified excuse to kill. Case in point, pre-war Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan.

Now, say what you will about America... You might even say that, at best, what America ultimately establishes is less "true" freedom than the freedom of "soulless, amusement park distraction".

If you say that, I will have to play for you the world's smallest violin. Because the difference between "no freedom whatsoever and horrific death" that dictators provide, versus "the frustration of neutered domestication and soulless amusement" that capitalism negatively brings, is no real difference at all.

The first state is the choice between real slavery or death. The second state is the choice between wage slavery and possible prosperity or sleeping in an alleyway somewhere. In the second scenario, at least you can still dissent and live...

...much like you're doing right now. Do you really think you could voice your objections in a dictator's society? If so, try living there for a year.

After you get back to the U.S. after that year, the "horrors" of junk food and minimum wage will seem like a porn star orgy to you.

What I do disagree with is some sort of creative bs that First World governments engage in where they have absolutely no problem murdering swaths of human beings, teaching people to rape, to be torturers, etc., and then claim that somehow they are better or different than whoever the hell it is we are fighting this week.

Much of these reports may or may not be true. And just to clear the air, let's just state right out in the open what the true origin point for many of these notions come from: the MIT linguistics professor and erstwhile political science commentator named Noam Chomsky.

Well, it turns out that Noam Chomsky has developed something of a reputation as a pro-dictatorship, fact-fudging hatemonger with a well-honed poker persona. And much of his legacy of seemingly "indisputable" writings on these matters have begun, in recent years, to seriously be disproved. Chomsky, it turns out, is one of the biggest supporters of the sorts of direct and savage genocides, that make the crimes of any America-sponsored dictatorships pale in comparison.

When bin-Laden was fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan, his buddies were wonderful freedom fighters, battling the horrible Soviet Union. Now, not so much. When we supported Saddam Hussein, he was our body fighting against theocratic nutjobs in Iran. Now, not so much.

That was a Devil's Dilemma. Communism really was a truly awful threat to the human race, and had been fiercely trying to spread like wildfire, to sustain itself. At the time of the invasion of Afghanistan, the US government also knew that Islamic fundamentalism was another true nightmare threat... however, its particular threat was not at that point as well-developed as the Soviet Unions, and so we chose to side with not the lesser of the two evils, but the weaker of two evils.

The same holds true for the case of Saddam Hussein. He was always a nightmare maniac... The US never liked him. But he was a weaker nightmare maniac than the nightmare maniacs of Iran at that time, so we reluctantly made the best of it.

In life, you sometimes have to make those kinds of choices. The U.S. government's main fault is that it has never widely released this kind of explanation for its seemingly "fickle loyalties".

In the case of communism, communism has always ultimately boiled down to a toxic combination of supreme conceit, hatred and sabotage of all those who possess and achieve, simply because they happen to possess and achieve. The noble rhetoric of communism has always been designed to well conceal what is ultimately little more than a narcissistic rationalization of those contemptible motivations.

This is not to say that corruption does not exist in the ranks of the wealthy. It does. But it is important to clarify that such examples of corruption exist within individuals and organizations who never actually practiced truly free and exclusively consentual transactions. Directly or indirectly, they have always achieved their wealth through direct force, or the implied threat of force... and always with the muscle-backing of some form of governmental power.

But that's not true capitalism, and never was. It is this false capitalism that communism always objected to, quite without understanding.

In fact, check out this excerpt from a Russian newspaper, from the year 2000:

Moscow Times
April 26, 2000
Putin's Adviser Extols Ayn Rand
By Catherine Belton
Staff Writer

Newly appointed presidential economics adviser Andrei Illarionov showed his economic colors Tuesday as he vociferously supported the ideas of one of the most influential shapers of Western thought on free markets - Ayn Rand.

"Every import tariff and every limit on foreign-exchange transactions is a blow to our consciousness. Every tax acts against our freedom," he said at a news conference Tuesday dedicated to the launch of Rand's work in the Russian language.

Rand gained acclaim in the 1940s for her theory of "objectivism," which forwards laissez-faire capitalism as the only system to protect
individual freedom.

Here's the whole link:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2000/04/26/017.html

Now, all this is not to say that America is some perfectly innocent "golden child" who can do no wrong. Neither I nor anyone of any real attentiveness believes that for a second. The United States at its worst is a kind of geopolitical "Nellie Olsen"... a spoiled, two-faced and vicious darling that requires periodic brat-beating to keep it on the straight and narrow.

But, however much it is this, it is not to be confused with any mass-murder regime of Stalin, Kim Jong Il or bin Laden. The mere fact that you, Diana_fan, are able to publicly criticize America, means that you really aren't that afraid of reprisals.

And you lack that fear in America. Would you still lack that fear under Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong Il, or Osama bin Laden?

I think not.

[AllisterH]

There is no indication that the people of Khandaq actually hate Black Adam.

Given their reactions in the JSA, I feel that Adam is still on a honeymoon tour with the populace of the country so until we see how Adam reacts to people that disagree with him AND aren't trying to actually kill him or his people, we really don't know how Adam deals with criticism.

Everyone we've seen Adam attacking/killing were people that aren't citizens of Khanda except for that general and as stated before, it ANYONE deserves to overthrow a dictator, it most assuredly is a citizen of that country (especially when the capital is named after his wife....)

Which is what Isis I think is supposed to bring in. Another voice that can tell Adam off which he will respect.

[Agentum]

But who gave USA the right to be judge and executioner?

It's fear that make you attack one country after another.

Saddam was an asshole no doubt but Iraq is not a fine liberated country now, i may be even worse than before, you can't just go to some country you don't know anything of and give them american freedom.

Now when you started it all, when should you leave and still look good?, maybe never as the fighting between diffrent groups will probably go on until another strong dictator takes over again.

I understand that USA what action but that shouldn't stop anyone to think about what things is about really, and what good it will do in the end to that country, whos next?

I don't argue that terrorists should be stopped, but is it possible to do this way without them be even more hating and doing more ill?

And people ofen talk about Russias invasion of Afghanistan, but it's more or less the same as USA is doing to me, they hunt their terrorists.

I don't hate USA and of course i don't want a world that is ruled by raving terrorists, but i'm not ready to accept everything that happens without thinking.

Sorry, this has very little with Black Adam to do i guess.

[Paul Newell]

Sorry, this has very little with Black Adam to do i guess.
Can we get it back to Black Adam, please. The Community Board is there for all your political needs.

[Tennoarashi]

The world isn't more angry at Black Adam because they all understand that this is just lashing out about his receding hairline. They understand, he needs some time.

[G. Wayne]

...
When so-called "enlightened" people object to "interfering" with barbaric third world countries, that's their true motivation: the condescending, tacit racism of the elite.
...

Just to briefly play Devil's Advocate a bit. You call it "interfering," some opponents of interfering with "barbaric" third world countries call it "imperialism".

And as for Black Adam, the average citizen on DC earth simply doesn't know everything he's done. As has been stated, the bulk of his activities with the Society aren't common knowledge. Very few people even know everything he's done recently. What people /do/ know that he's done, are the events that have received wide public coverage. For example, aiding the heroes in the defense of Metropolis from Dr. Psycho, Doomsday, and company, or killing Terra-Man (a known villain) and his following pro-active speech. He probably comes across as a more of an anti-hero than a re-formed villian.

[Ronnigon]

G.Wayne:

Yes, you have a point there. He has stood up for some admirable causes in his own, Draconian way.

[Paragon]

Black Adam.

Revealed so far:

Black Adam has taken over a country and constructed a regime based on his particular morality. No super criminals, being one of the ethical pillars.

He is forming a coalition with other countries that has similar interests.

Isis has been introduced as a new marvel family member, and it appears that she will become his consort / Queen

Isis is personification Queenhood (mythological)

The chalkboard indicates that four horsemen will interrupt her rain (Deliberately misspelt?) I dug through some mythology sources but could find no association between Isis and ‘rain’ yet.

The four horsemen is referenced in the bible as the ‘four horsemen of the Apocalypse’ (Conquest, War, Famine , Death).

She was delivered to Black Adam by Intergang.
Intergang is well known to have links to Apocolips.

She will soon be in the perfect position to manipulate several key elements.
The out of this world tech weapons being smuggled seems to come from Khandaq.
The chalkboards also have references to WW3.

The obvious assumption is that forces from Apocolips are seeding the earth with weapons, and manipulating the world into conflict (WW3).

Darkseid is the easy conclusion to jump too, but that is too obvious. I have a different idea. I will expand on that in a different thread.

I expect four characters to show up in 52 soon though, each with a link to Conquest, War, Famine and death.
It could also be seen as four phases that Khandaq will go through. With Isis dying at some point in future, severely affecting Black Adam.

[Jack Zodiac]

As it was said in another thread, I think there's definitely a connection between Isis and Intergang, as there's already a definite link between Intergang and Kahndaq. And from the moment I saw Rip's chalkboard, I connected WWIII and Black Adam almost immediately. With what he's trying to do now, with his coalition, it's everything you need to make a global metahuman war. And considering the vague flashbacks Hal has about being a prisoner in China, and Green Lantern being an international outlaw because of his actions in other countries, I can't help but feel that it's all connected.