All in All What Were The Changes? *Spoilers*

[Frank]

I wonder what changes took places and how is the Earth going to be. For one thing, I read Infinite Crisis`ending, I don`t see how it fixed the first Crisis. I read somewhere about the heroes "creating a new Earth", and i`m not sure what that entails.

-What is Power Girl all about? After the first Crisis there was one Earth, one reality so she became this lost in time Atlantean. But in IC she returned to her original origin of being Kara from Earth 2. But it`s not like Earth 2 was restored because it wasn`t. What is she? And is the Multiverse back.

-Apparantly both Supermen and Superboy lost their powers by going threw the Kryptonian sun(right?)...even though I think that the original Superman(or Earth 2 one) never had any link to the sun whatsover. It may have been mentioned briefly, but it`s really with the Byrne revamp(and first Superman movie) and new Superman that there was a direct link with the sun. The original Superman was way too powerful, somebody that could wrestle planets to be instinguished like a flame by a common sci-fi concept passing threw a sun(whatever that may be) may affect his dna.

-Any notable changes in the bat books? I know there seems to be a Batwoman all of sudden. How did IC affected Bruce?

-The OMACs were pretty important in the whole countdown to IC, the DC books..all leading to to the Big Event. But are they going to keep the lameass cyborg purple zombies? I think a lot of people were hoping that when all is said and done, we would see the return of the kickass Jack Kirby OMAC(what was it, One Man Assault Corp or something like that).

[Damo]

Also: Alfred switched preferences to boxers. *Nods.*

Kara is the sole survivor (well... there might be others) of the multiverse. That's her new origin. She's the last Kryptonian from an alternate reality that's gone.

Oh, and Bruce's parents' murderer was caught.

[heystacy]

Wait... Why tweak everone else's origin, and not make a better one for PG? :confused: I think the character deserves something other than being a cosmic orphan. She's lost all her friends and family.

What are her powers now?

[Kara Zor El]

Also: Alfred switched preferences to boxers. *Nods.*

Kara is the sole survivor (well... there might be others) of the multiverse. That's her new origin. She's the last Kryptonian from an alternate reality that's gone.

Oh, and Bruce's parents' murderer was caught.

Superboy Prime is also a survivor of the Multiverse. So that makes at least two.
And we also have some rotting corpses from the Multiverse. Such as Alexander Luthor's and Kal-L's.

[Mulett]

1/ They all remember. All the heroes (apart from one, apparently) now remember the multiverse. The Justice Society, for instance, remembers their Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman and Robin. These heroes actually did exist now too – Earth-2 Batman’s ghost recently appeared in a copy of JSA.

2/ Power Girl's origin. This has been restored to what it was before the Crisis on Infinite Earth in 1985. She is the cousin of the Earth-2 Superman. How she fits into New Earth continuity beyond this is yet to be seen. She is the only hero (as far as I can see) who is living on New Earth alongside her direct counterpart (Supergirl). As far as New Earth is concerned, Power Girl may have two origins - the one she and every other hero now remembers (Earth-2) and the one the general population of New Earth remember. It's all very silly and she deserves better.

3/ Wonder Woman: Wonder Woman appeared earlier and was a founding member of the Justice League. I would imagine this will restore Donna Troy’s origin as Wonder Girl. I am not sure if her mother is still going to be the WW11 Wonder Woman, however.

4/ Superboy. In think Superman now started his career as Superboy in Smallville, like the Earth-1 Superman did pre-1985.

5/ Batman. His parent’s killer was captured.

6/ Supergirl. The Matrix Supergirl and the Linda Danvers Supergirl appear to have been removed from continuity. So the current Supergirl is the only one the New Earth people remember. Whether Superman remember's his cousin from first time around (the one who died fighting in the 1985 Crisis) has yet to be explained but is doubtful.

[glennsim]

I think the changes here are all valid, but I think it's more a matter of assuming that EVERYTHING has changed until it gets confirmed one way or the other. It's pretty much a clean slate, with the new history beginning with IC #7, 52 and the OYL titles moving forward. The past is whatever is referenced in flashback and past-setting stories from now on.

[Damo]

I am seriously not getting where all this "Power Girl deserves a better origin" stuff is coming from. I mean, seriously, what the heck? Explain it to me.

She's now, once more, from Earth 2's Krypton. Except now, instead of just being the last survivor of that one planet, she's the last survivor of that entire universe. All the stuff about her being Superman's cousin and going to earth is again true, but it has the extra layer that she's 100% from Earth 2, not a "New Earth Counterpart" that somehow got memories of the old earth.

THAT'S her new origin, and it sounds just fine and dandy to me. Hell being the last character to 100% be from Earth 2, the very first universe DC wrote about, sounds like a damn fine origin to me.

[glennsim]

I am seriously not getting where all this "Power Girl deserves a better origin" stuff is coming from. I mean, seriously, what the heck? Explain it to me.

She's now, once more, from Earth 2's Krypton. Except now, instead of just being the last survivor of that one planet, she's the last survivor of that entire universe. All the stuff about her being Superman's cousin and going to earth is again true, but it has the extra layer that she's 100% from Earth 2, not a "New Earth Counterpart" that somehow got memories of the old earth.

THAT'S her new origin, and it sounds just fine and dandy to me. Hell being the last character to 100% be from Earth 2, the very first universe DC wrote about, sounds like a damn fine origin to me.

I concur. Although I do have some geeky questions about how her status works within the nature of the DCU universe. Like, if you could travel back in time, what would you see happening to her? Obviously, you wouldn't see a rocketship come to Earth, because that didn't happen in the current universe. So presumably you'd just see her sorta "appear" out of nowhere. In this new history has she always known she was the last survivor of Earth 2 or did she still think she had other origins? Curious.

[Shellhead]

I think the changes here are all valid, but I think it's more a matter of assuming that EVERYTHING has changed until it gets confirmed one way or the other. It's pretty much a clean slate, with the new history beginning with IC #7, 52 and the OYL titles moving forward. The past is whatever is referenced in flashback and past-setting stories from now on.

Hopefully somebody at DC has planned things out in advance and is watching to see that the writers stay on track. Otherwise, lack of editorial direction will cause this fresh start to quickly sink into a quagmire of contradictions.

[Captain_Marvel]

Well, the Ninth Age of Magic has ended with the death of all the Great Lords of Order, including Shazam. This has major ramifications not only for the Marvel Family, but for the entire DC Universe. Hank Hall, also known as Dr. Fate, is dead. There will be a new Dr. Fate, but he apparently will be less powerful than previous incarnations. What will become of Billy Batson, now trapped on the Rock of Eternity, remains to be seen. Hopefully, all will be told when the "Trials of Shazam" mini series comes out.

[Tom]

Hank Hall, also known as Dr. Fate, is dead..
Hector Hall. Hank Hall is the former Hawk/Monarch/...um what was his name when Atom-Smasher killed him?

[Tom]

Wait... Why tweak everone else's origin, and not make a better one for PG? :confused: I think the character deserves something other than being a cosmic orphan. She's lost all her friends and family.

I strongly disagree. Putting her original origin back in place was one of the best things about IC. And it's especially poignant since she's even more of an orphan than any Superman or Supergirl ever was.

[Paul Newell]

Hector Hall. Hank Hall is the former Hawk/Monarch/...um what was his name when Atom-Smasher killed him?
Extant.
.

[Tom]

Extant.
.
I knew it was one of those dumb '90s names.

[Paul Newell]

I strongly disagree. Putting her original origin back in place was one of the best things about IC. And it's especially poignant since she's even more of an orphan than any Superman or Supergirl ever was.
Which is a pity as I would have liked to have seen Power Dog, Power Cat, Power Horse and Power Monkey...


...Maybe not.

[Tom]

Which is a pity as I would have liked to have seen Power Dog, Power Cat, Power Horse and Power Monkey...


...Maybe not.
There's something extremely disturbing about the phrase "Power Monkey."

By the way, isn't it long past time that she became Power Woman?

[Paul Newell]

I knew it was one of those dumb '90s names.
Like Parallax? ;)

[Tom]

Strangely, I still think Parallax is kind of a cool name for a villain.

[Parallax]

Strangely, I still think Parallax is kind of a cool name for a villain.

I thank you for your support.

[Paul Newell]

There's something extremely disturbing about the phrase "Power Monkey."

By the way, isn't it long past time that she became Power Woman?
Definitely...And I think the same thing of Hawkgirl as well...Neither are teenagers any longer.

[Paul Newell]

I thank you for your support.
That didn't take long. :)

*Waits for everything to turn white*

[XPac]

Hector Hall. Hank Hall is the former Hawk/Monarch/...um what was his name when Atom-Smasher killed him?

I actually liked the name Monarch. I don't know... it had a sort of regal Dr. Doomish quality. Why they swapped Monarch for Extant is anyone's guess.

[heystacy]

I strongly disagree. Putting her original origin back in place was one of the best things about IC. And it's especially poignant since she's even more of an orphan than any Superman or Supergirl ever was.


I see your point, but I kinda feel bad for her. She found her family just to lose them. I wonder if her power levels have changed.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Yeah, The Parallax Impurity does have a nice ring to it, doesn't it?

But I have no time for Bloodshot, Cornblow, Militia, EYErony, Argus or any of the other dumb one word names of the 90s.

And, yeah, Power Girl's "new" origin is the best possible move they could have made for her. She is now the Ultimate Orphan.

[Babylon23]

I have to agree with everybody championing the return of Power Girl's true origin. She's one of the characters that really suffered post-CoIE (along with Wonder Girl/Troia). Seeing her back as the sole survivor of her universe, and as part of the true Superman legacy, gives her a special place in the DCU.

[Captain_Marvel]

Hector Hall. Hank Hall is the former Hawk/Monarch/...um what was his name when Atom-Smasher killed him?


Whoops! Got me there!:)

[Shellhead]

I have to agree with everybody championing the return of Power Girl's true origin. She's one of the characters that really suffered post-CoIE (along with Wonder Girl/Troia). Seeing her back as the sole survivor of her universe, and as part of the true Superman legacy, gives her a special place in the DCU.

Hopefully that means that DC won't continue to increase Power Girl's bust size every year. Otherwise, in 20 years, there will be a Crisis on Infinite Breasts.

[The Shadow]

in 20 years, there will be a Crisis on Infinite Breasts.
:D

:D

And somewhere in the DC offices Dan Didio is taking notes...

:D

[Captain Smith]

If Kara finds Argo - she might find the Argo Pet-o-rama or kiddie farm in the zoo. Then we will have a wave of super animals.

Parallax is a stupid name if you know what the terms means. It's an optical error.

However, in the new universe Parallax merges with Extant to become Ex-Lax.

[mandog]

I am for the most part a DC noob. I read the arch when superman croaked, Ive read Batman on and off and a bit of Flash here and there. I jumped back into comics after 5 years about a month or so ago. One of the books I picked up was IC I know that its a series for diehard DC fans but I got it anyway. I knew enough about things and various characters to enjoy it, but I dont really see what bits of continuity(sp) it shook up. I know a few characters died, theres the whole bit with Flash and such. But, give me some other big things that have changed because of IC. I know it was done to retcon some stuff. But, what was retconned?

[Paul Newell]

I am for the most part a DC noob. I read the arch when superman croaked, Ive read Batman on and off and a bit of Flash here and there. I jumped back into comics after 5 years about a month or so ago. One of the books I picked up was IC I know that its a series for diehard DC fans but I got it anyway. I knew enough about things and various characters to enjoy it, but I dont really see what bits of continuity(sp) it shook up. I know a few characters died, theres the whole bit with Flash and such. But, give me some other big things that have changed because of IC. I know it was done to retcon some stuff. But, what was retconned?

No-one actually knows yet.

The only things shown so far to have changed are:


Power Girl's origin back to her her Pre-Crisis origin.
Superman may have been Superboy after all.
The murderer of Batman's parents was Joe Chill and was caught for their murder.
Wonder Woman was a founding member of the JLA.We presume more will be shown in 52...Particularly in the "History of the DCU" backup and the Who's Who entries.

[glennsim]

No-one actually knows yet.

The only things shown so far to have changed are:


Power Girl's origin back to her her Pre-Crisis origin.
Superman may have been Superboy after all.
The murderer of Batman's parents was Joe Chill and was caught for their murder.
Wonder Woman was a founding member of the JLA.We presume more will be shown in 52...Particularly in the "History of the DCU" backup and the Who's Who entries.

Technically, you could pick out some others from the OYL stories and 52.

Mammoth now speaks with a thorough Australian accent, rather than pretty much like a caveman as he always had before.

Robin's villain Lynx didn't die (until she did, in a OYL book).

The Doom Patrol now presumably has a history that is combination of their Vertigo history and their Byrne history.

Dan Dideo has been quoted as saying the Matrix-Supergirl never existed, but it's unclear how far that extends.

...stuff like that. We'll be finding out all the changes as the books reveal them over time.

[Frank]

Something I don`t get, those Universes that were destroyed no longer exist. But the Multiverse is back on? Or has it ever been truly merged into one? And if Power Girl gets her own title, if her origin doesn`t relate to this Earth, what can be done to give her proper adventure so that she doesn`t end up as Supergirl-lite. The only thing I can think off would be to maybe give her time-travelling adventures where she becomes a sort-of guardian of the Multiverse. That may be cool.

If Wonder Woman was in WWII, then the Byrne revamp that said that it was Hypolitta is now void. But more importantly before it was the Earth 2 WW that was there in WWII and if they changed it for "no the Wonder Woman that was there was the one that is here now"....what happens to Earth 2 WW, and why didn`t they do the same for Superman. I`m asking that because since their goal is to say that "it happened", because there were really comics in the 40s with WW in it", then Superman was there too. They may just well say that Superman has been there since 1938 and explain that his alien dna makes him age more slowly than us. I mean keep it the way it was or change it completly, do not go half in half with your characters and Universes, because that`s what created the troubles in the first place since Crisis. Given that they admited that Superman was indeed Superboy once, they might as well say that he was in WWII and restore everything the way it was.

[Frank]

Oh and the actual Supergirl, where does she come from. The original Supergirl got killed during Crisis. And it was not a "Earth 2 Supergirl" either.

[Just_A_Rat]

Batman's parent's killer has been caught - like in the Batman Begins movie.
Superman was sighted before his big appearance in Metropolis - wait for this to happen in the movie too.

I think DC has left it bit open ended, so that people coming from other media to comics will not have as big of an adjustment to make - what they know from Smallville, or from Batman Begins, or whatever will not be directly contradicted by what exists in the comics. But that is just one man's theory.

[Jack]

Something I don`t get, those Universes that were destroyed no longer exist. But the Multiverse is back on? Or has it ever been truly merged into one? And if Power Girl gets her own title, if her origin doesn`t relate to this Earth, what can be done to give her proper adventure so that she doesn`t end up as Supergirl-lite. The only thing I can think off would be to maybe give her time-travelling adventures where she becomes a sort-of guardian of the Multiverse. That may be cool.

If Wonder Woman was in WWII, then the Byrne revamp that said that it was Hypolitta is now void. But more importantly before it was the Earth 2 WW that was there in WWII and if they changed it for "no the Wonder Woman that was there was the one that is here now"....what happens to Earth 2 WW, and why didn`t they do the same for Superman. I`m asking that because since their goal is to say that "it happened", because there were really comics in the 40s with WW in it", then Superman was there too. They may just well say that Superman has been there since 1938 and explain that his alien dna makes him age more slowly than us. I mean keep it the way it was or change it completly, do not go half in half with your characters and Universes, because that`s what created the troubles in the first place since Crisis. Given that they admited that Superman was indeed Superboy once, they might as well say that he was in WWII and restore everything the way it was.
The members of the JSA and other former inhabitants of Earth 2 remember "their" Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman, but they only existed on Earth 2 and not in the history of New Earth.

As for Superman being Superboy... I don't think he actually was, just that for years there were reports of a flying child, who perhaps saved a few people. I'm pretty sure his superhero career didn't really start until he became Superman.

[davros42]

The members of the JSA and other former inhabitants of Earth 2 remember "their" Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman, but they only existed on Earth 2 and not in the history of New Earth.

Only the members of the JSA who are from Earth-2, remember the Earth-2 Batman and Wonder Woman. Jakeem still had no idea who the Ghost of Batman was, presumably neither would Stargirl or any of the Marvels (if they were still on the team).

Presumably everyone knows a little about Earth-2 Superman by now, since he appeared throughout Infinite Crisis.

[Jack]

Only the members of the JSA who are from Earth-2, remember the Earth-2 Batman and Wonder Woman. Jakeem still had no idea who the Ghost of Batman was, presumably neither would Stargirl or any of the Marvels (if they were still on the team).

Presumably everyone knows a little about Earth-2 Superman by now, since he appeared throughout Infinite Crisis.
"The members of the JSA and other former inhabitants of Earth 2"

[glennsim]

"The members of the JSA and other former inhabitants of Earth 2"

The members of the JSA and other former inhabitants of Earth 2 are the only ones who could potentially remember E2 Superman, if someone reminds them (as Wildcat was in IC #7).

[Jack]

The members of the JSA and other former inhabitants of Earth 2 are the only ones who could potentially remember E2 Superman, if someone reminds them (as Wildcat was in IC #7).
There's no evidence that they need to be reminded. Johnny Thunderbolt remembered E2 Batman, and any conversations he has have to have been overheard by Jakeem.... this is such a stupid tangent, the guy was trying to tell me something I already knew because he didn't read my post properly!

[glennsim]

There's no evidence that they need to be reminded. Johnny Thunderbolt remembered E2 Batman, and any conversations he has have to have been overheard by Jakeem.... this is such a stupid tangent, the guy was trying to tell me something I already knew because he didn't read my post properly!

Stupid tangents are sometimes the best ones :)

There is evidence they need to be reminded. The scene with Wildcat in IC#7.

I would suggest that the reason Johnny remembered Batman but Jakeem didn't was because someone already reminded Johnny (since he's an actual former Earth 2 resident) and Jakeem just wasn't paying attention...:)

Actually, I'd like to think that Jakeem is able to let Johnny spend some quality time with the other old guys without having to constantly tag along...

[Jack]

Stupid tangents are sometimes the best ones :)

There is evidence they need to be reminded. The scene with Wildcat in IC#7.

I would suggest that the reason Johnny remembered Batman but Jakeem didn't was because someone already reminded Johnny (since he's an actual former Earth 2 resident) and Jakeem just wasn't paying attention...:)

Actually, I'd like to think that Jakeem is able to let Johnny spend some quality time with the other old guys without having to constantly tag along...
The scene in IC #7 is like this:

Wildcat: Who is that?
Power Girl: Who do you think, Wildcat?
Wildcat: I think I remember. That's him.
Power Girl: Yep. He's our Superm--

He remembered on his own.

[glennsim]

The scene in IC #7 is like this:

Wildcat: Who is that?
Power Girl: Who do you think, Wildcat?
Wildcat: I think I remember. That's him.
Power Girl: Yep. He's our Superm--

He remembered on his own.

He still at least had to SEE Kal-L to remember him. If he instantly had his memories returned to him, he wouldn't have had to ask the question.

Anybody who didn't actually see these people would have to be reminded.

The other option is that they all slowly remembered at about the same speed Wildcat did, even without anybody reminding them. Which doesn't change the fact that Johnny Thunderbolt would remember Batman (since they knew each other) but Jakeem wouldn't (since he didn't). We'll just have to see what other evidence we get.

[Kid Monster]

Which is a pity as I would have liked to have seen Power Dog, Power Cat, Power Horse and Power Monkey...


...Maybe not.

Utterly bizarre and stupid question: since they killed Superboy (the Conner one), and memory-holed one of the Supergirls (Matrix), is Krypto the Super-Dog still around?

[Monarch]

Are the changes caused by Infinite Crisis retroactive? If one travels back in time to the first Crisis one will only find some version of COIE #11 and #12- an Antimatter Universe invasion. If we travel back say, five years, will we still see Matrix Supergirl?

[Agentum]

Well, i can't get a golden age Superman series to read, thats for sure.

[glennsim]

Are the changes caused by Infinite Crisis retroactive? If one travels back in time to the first Crisis one will only find some version of COIE #11 and #12- an Antimatter Universe invasion. If we travel back say, five years, will we still see Matrix Supergirl?

My understanding is no, that the things that have changed actually changed, and travelling back in time you would not see her.

Y'know, DC has never really explored the notion of "time" vs TIME. That is, you would think there's got to be some sort of timeline that is outside of these retcon changes that a traveller could travel on, where, yes, travelling back in TIME would enable you to visit pre-retcon worlds.

The other thing I keep thinking they might try some time is to have the DCU collectively remember the past in one way (and all pertinent records altered to match), but to have the past - the one you can generally time-travel to - not have changed. You would still have a bunch of "how did this happen" stories, but it wouldn't be quite such a priority, because it would only relate to how people remembered the events, not how they actually happened (which wouldn't have changed).

[Captain Manhatten]

That all the heroes of Earth 2 now existed is definitely the most significant thing and removes something that infuriated fans the most. Now it is simply an alternate reality that was destroyed but maybe the souls of the people still exist.

I think the only thing that would have made things even better was to restore the memories that Earth-One itself had been changed so the heroes remembered both the current timeline and the original Earth-One timeline (ie. Superman remembers there was a timeline where he was Superboy and where he was not the high school jock).

Giving Powergirl back her original origin and doing away with the Post-Crisis rewrite of history was great and restoring WonderWoman and Superman (at least in people's memories) to their rightful status as founding Justice League
members was also a good thing.

Of course, I'd like to see Diana restored to her World War II status as well as founding Justice Leaguer but they did a lot of good things. I STILL would prefer a complete restart (not a retcon, a restart or reimagining ala Ultimate Universe).

1/ They all remember. All the heroes (apart from one, apparently) now remember the multiverse. The Justice Society, for instance, remembers their Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman and Robin. These heroes actually did exist now too – Earth-2 Batman’s ghost recently appeared in a copy of JSA.

2/ Power Girl's origin. This has been restored to what it was before the Crisis on Infinite Earth in 1985. She is the cousin of the Earth-2 Superman. How she fits into New Earth continuity beyond this is yet to be seen. She is the only hero (as far as I can see) who is living on New Earth alongside her direct counterpart (Supergirl). As far as New Earth is concerned, Power Girl may have two origins - the one she and every other hero now remembers (Earth-2) and the one the general population of New Earth remember. It's all very silly and she deserves better.

3/ Wonder Woman: Wonder Woman appeared earlier and was a founding member of the Justice League. I would imagine this will restore Donna Troy’s origin as Wonder Girl. I am not sure if her mother is still going to be the WW11 Wonder Woman, however.

4/ Superboy. In think Superman now started his career as Superboy in Smallville, like the Earth-1 Superman did pre-1985.

5/ Batman. His parent’s killer was captured.

6/ Supergirl. The Matrix Supergirl and the Linda Danvers Supergirl appear to have been removed from continuity. So the current Supergirl is the only one the New Earth people remember. Whether Superman remember's his cousin from first time around (the one who died fighting in the 1985 Crisis) has yet to be explained but is doubtful.

[LordGorto]

So WW is a founding member of JL? So all the Waid/Kitson JLA stories are null and void?
That's crap.

[Captain Manhatten]

So WW is a founding member of JL? So all the Waid/Kitson JLA stories are null and void?
That's crap.

I'm not up on exactly what the story is there. I'm just going with what people are saying here. I took it to mean that people remember there was a reality where she was a founder before it got changed. BUT the current run where she was not a founding member makes null and void every Wonder Woman story written from Day One until they changed her established history. That could equally be crap.

[Lorendiac]

Y'know, DC has never really explored the notion of "time" vs TIME. That is, you would think there's got to be some sort of timeline that is outside of these retcon changes that a traveller could travel on, where, yes, travelling back in TIME would enable you to visit pre-retcon worlds.

To do him justice, I think that's approximately what Mark Waid was trying to address with his "Hypertime" concept several years ago. Being able to visit alternate versions of your own past (pre-Retcon and post-Retcon, for instance), or alternately staying put while your own past mutated and changed behind you, because of the fluctations of Hypertime (also known as "an endless series of retcons great and small"). But last year Dan Didio said Hypertime is now gone from the DCU. So much for that. :(

[wellsoul2]

My understanding is no, that the things that have changed actually changed, and travelling back in time you would not see her.

Y'know, DC has never really explored the notion of "time" vs TIME. That is, you would think there's got to be some sort of timeline that is outside of these retcon changes that a traveller could travel on, where, yes, travelling back in TIME would enable you to visit pre-retcon worlds.

The other thing I keep thinking they might try some time is to have the DCU collectively remember the past in one way (and all pertinent records altered to match), but to have the past - the one you can generally time-travel to - not have changed. You would still have a bunch of "how did this happen" stories, but it wouldn't be quite such a priority, because it would only relate to how people remembered the events, not how they actually happened (which wouldn't have changed).

I find it very unsatisfying for long time readers.
Infinite Crisis didn't do much. Now leaving everything else up in the air
seems even more confusing.

It's all so stupid and could easily be fixed with a multiverse.
You don't even need to copy the old multiverse..
See what Marvel does with Exiles to see how to handle all these versions
of characters.

DC just doesn't have the stones to admit they were wrong.

Seriously..it really impairs the characters to have so many retcons.
They are basically telling you to throw lots of past comics in the trash
because they mean nothing. Which ones? Oh..we'll tell you later.:mad:

[Pinnacle]

I like to think that everything (every DC comic) happened but in order for this to happen then the Multiverse would have had to have returned. This didn't happen. I'm not sure that I would have wanted it to as it would have totally changed some of the things that I'm used to such as the relationship between all the Flashes and Alan Scott and Jade with the Green Lanterns. Yet it would have created the opportunity for a lot of great storytelling and a lasting impact for Infinite Crisis.

[Typo Lad]

No comics are "null and void". They're still sitting in your longbox and on your bookshelf and you can enjoy them whenever you want.

[Shellhead]

No comics are "null and void". They're still sitting in your longbox and on your bookshelf and you can enjoy them whenever you want.

Sure. But after a couple of Crises and a Zero Hour, DC continuity has become unnecessarily problematic. When too much continuity gets discarded for the rare special event, it degrades the value of each new issue. Why should I buy Teen Titans #36, when my gut instinct tells me that this continuity too shall be someday be sacrificed for a short-term boost in sales?

To be honest, I will probably buy Teen Titans #36, because I have enjoyed the last two issues, and it appears that this current creative team will stick around for awhile. But other DC titles that I'm on the fence about are getting dropped, because I don't care as much anymore.

[Typo Lad]

You know, if continuity bothers you, you can do what I do and ignore it.

Just a suggestion.

[PainAndDiscord]

This is gonna sound so dumb but after reading the 2nd part of the DCU History in 52 #3. Are they saying that the TV show Smallville happend on Earth-2?

....

PnD

[Shellhead]

You know, if continuity bothers you, you can do what I do and ignore it.

Just a suggestion.

That's a reasonable point. However, it would be cheaper to just drop some DC titles, since Didio provided me with such a convenient stopping point.

[mistervader]

Shouldn't PG be wearing a shield on the hole in her costume now that she knows where she came from?

That WAS a point of discussion prior to IC, wasn't it?

[Sabrinaset]

TOP TEN CHANGES FROM INFINITE CRISIS:

10) Wonder Woman's new secret identity: Paris Hilton.
9) Superman has *three* weaknesses: Kryptonite, Magic, and Milk of Magnesia.
8) Batman not only ate rats as a child, but still eats them today, even having Alfred keeping a bowl full of them in Wayne Manor in case he gets the munchies.
7) Dan Didio gets his editorial ideas from TV and the movies rather than his own editors and writers.
6) Detective Montoya has now slept with every super-heroine in the DCU. Watch out, Courtney Whitmore..you're next!
5) Power Girl's cup size has been signifigantly increased. Can only walk with the aid of a wheelbarrow.
4) Black Adam unable to survive without killing someone hourly in the new, friendlier DCU.
3) Martian Manhunter now unaffected by Oreos. However, shopping at Wal-Mart drives him into an uncontrollable rage.
2) Hal Jordan's punches now able to shatter inertron.
1) It's perfectly acceptable for Batman to do this:
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/5376/gabats0070va.jpg

[wellsoul2]

You know, if continuity bothers you, you can do what I do and ignore it.

Just a suggestion.

Certainly. I do check out some books by DC and like them. Usually the ones
with newer characters so continuity is not a big deal.

I'm trying to think of a current DC retcon that is better than the original concept and I can't.

What I really need to do is throw all my DC comics away every three
years and get a mindwipe as well. Oh wait..I could just avoid most
DC comics.

Not to whine forever but I really think they COULD fix the whole mess,
mostly please young and old readers and get people to buy more DC
books if they could trust them to keep a coherent continuity.

The current answer is they don't care.
The numbers for Infinite Crisis show that SOME people bought it
because they teased a multiverse and fixing continuity.
Wake up DC..you might actually sell more comics if you really
did it!

Check this..it's hilarious review of IC http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/285

[Typo Lad]

Why would you need a mindwipe to enjoy the DC comics you like? Just treat every series like a self-contained Elseworlds and don't fret about the fact that Superman is fighting Darkseid in one issue and in another he's fighting Doomsday. If Aquaman has a harpoon hand in JLA and a water hand in his own title, big deal! Heck, if Tempest had a son in Aquaman V3 and has a daughter in V4... big hairy deal. They're different comics.

I guess I'm just deranged.

[wellsoul2]

Why would you need a mindwipe to enjoy the DC comics you like? Just treat every series like a self-contained Elseworlds and don't fret about the fact that Superman is fighting Darkseid in one issue and in another he's fighting Doomsday. If Aquaman has a harpoon hand in JLA and a water hand in his own title, big deal! Heck, if Tempest had a son in Aquaman V3 and has a daughter in V4... big hairy deal. They're different comics.

I guess I'm just deranged.

:) But how did the son become the daughter? The ENQUIRER wants to know!

I suspect that people that read DC now are more like you than me.
Through Darwinian selection they've weeded out people that think
continuity is a big deal.

[wtnrradio]

Iam just glad I was'ent in to DC before this Infinite Crisis mess. Started at I.C.#4. It seems like a mindf*ck on hardcore fans. But for someone like me hopefully all questions will be answered OYL or Two years later....

[Lorendiac]

:) But how did the son become the daughter? The ENQUIRER wants to know!

Superboy-Prime's Retcon Punch, of course! The same way Mirage of the Titans gave birth to a baby boy in "New Titans #130" and then was carrying around her beloved baby girl in the "JLA/Titans: The Technis Imperative" miniseries!